This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting December 7, 2005
01:01 janeW roll call === jelkner [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:01 kjcole kjcole is sleepy... er.. is Kevin Cole === ogra is OliverGrawert === kjcole is definitely sleepy.... er... Kevin Cole 01:02 janeW just the 3 of us? 01:02 jelkner jelkner is Jeffrey Elkner 01:02 janeW hi jelkner 01:02 jelkner hi jane! 01:02 kjcole morning, jeff. 01:03 jelkner good morning kevin 01:03 jelkner while we wait for other folks, can we do a quick update on documentation? 01:04 kjcole I'm game. 01:04 ogra we should probably wait for highvoltage and jsgotango for that 01:04 janeW let's start with ogra's update now, so we don't run out of time... 01:04 ogra since they are involved with docs 01:04 janeW they can catch up from the notes... 01:04 jelkner ogra: only problem is, i will need to leave by 7:30 pm 01:05 janeW jelkner: ok you are straight after ogra. ok? 01:05 jelkner last week i missed a bunch of import stuff (including local devices) 01:05 jelkner ok 01:05 kjcole FYI: SInce this falls before my morning commute, and Accessibility Team falls after it, I'm going to blow out of here in 55 minutes... 01:05 janeW kjcole: ok understood 01:05 ogra ok, 01:05 janeW let's go them, waiting for late ppl just encourages them to be late === flint [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting the CD build looks very good, we should have all 3 arches ready today, i386 hd three 01:06 ogra uninstallable packages tonight rthat should be gone by now, for the other arches the install CD should be fine already 01:06 flint morning ollie 01:07 ogra liveCD builds will start immediately after i have someone building the filesystem for me ...(i.e. directly after the ubuntu livefs was built) === spacey [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:07 ogra (thats done by lamont/infinity) 01:08 janeW great 01:08 janeW ogra: much better than we were last time :) 01:08 ogra i had a workshop and talk last weekend at the essener linuxtage, which resulted in several people who want to join development now :) 01:08 janeW EXCELLENT 01:08 janeW ogra: do you think they will? === linbetwin [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:08 ogra i.e. i have one guy who wants to take over ltsp-manager from me ;) 01:08 janeW :) 01:09 ogra the other ones are not this concrete ... 01:09 janeW ogra: I see you got the thinclient-memory-usage spec to Approved. 01:09 ogra spacey, worked with willow the last days ... 01:09 janeW and faster-startup to Pending Reivew 01:09 ogra thats next on my list ;) 01:09 janeW so getting there 01:10 ogra the specs are reviewed, and i have a list of changes from mdz to put into the two missing ones .... 01:10 ogra after i made these changes they should get approved straight === jelkner is waiting with anticipation to hear about local devices... 01:10 ogra the local device spec is still in drafting and will wait for a meeting between mdz, sbalneaves and me === crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:11 ogra to decide what we do and what is feasable with it 01:11 ogra its the one that requires most manpower (not only mine) and the one that had lowest prio from the beginning 01:12 janeW ogra: are you setting up that meeting or must I? 01:12 jelkner why lowest prio? 01:12 ogra janeW, i can ... 01:12 jelkner i would argue that without it, we really don't have edubuntu 01:12 ogra jelkner, i dont make the prioritisation 01:12 janeW ogra: please do if you can 01:12 janeW I am drowning in LP, plans and spreadsheets 01:12 kjcole who sets the priorities and how? I would think it might be us... 01:12 flint local devices seem very "dapper". is is a personpower issue or an approach isssue? 01:12 ogra jelkner, you said we dont have edubuntu without content filtering 01:13 janeW kjcole: us and mdz mainly 01:13 jelkner ogra: yes, but that was until you gave me a different solution for that 01:13 ogra jelkner, which is rather achieveable now ... 01:13 flint ogra, actually that was my flawed vision about the content filtering... 01:13 jelkner great! 01:13 ogra since spacey took the task 01:13 jelkner i'm only reporting back feedback from the users 01:13 janeW local devices are important 01:14 jelkner everyone keeps asking "how can students save their work?" 01:14 jelkner i don't know what to tell them yet 01:14 janeW ogra: any more progress for the week? 01:14 ogra sure, but still, the spec is low/mid prio and not ready yet 01:14 jelkner janeW: how do priorities get set? 01:14 ogra we have some odd Xorg bugs currently so ltsp is broken, i had not enough tim yet due to my normal distro work ... i hope to have that fixed until next meeting 01:15 jelkner is there a way to appeal a priority? === spacey pong 01:15 ogra jelkner, thats a mdz/sabdfl thing 01:15 janeW jelkner: mail me and I'll process it === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:15 jelkner will do 01:16 flint ogra, ollie, what can we do to help get local devices? Are priorities disclosed on a wikki somewhere? 01:16 janeW jelkner: I can raise the priority, but that won;t necessarily change the expectation of delivery, esp if there is a technical blocker 01:16 jelkner understood 01:16 janeW flint: it;s all on launchpad 01:16 janeW jelkner: but I will support getting this done, because it is clearly needed http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051205-1.png shows the latest 01:16 ogra bootchart, mdz has the opinion we can cut down some (10?) seconds from X detection and Keybuk told me the over all speed might be cut down by 15sec so we're getting there 01:16 janeW https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable 01:17 flint JaneW, actually it is all on my computer, thanks for the specifics ollie! 01:17 ogra flint, learn dbus programming :P 01:17 janeW flint: there's no dreaded wiki table this time 01:17 ogra thats one of the blockers, i'm not into dbus enough that i'd trust my skills to do it alone ... 01:18 ogra but since most of the other specs are done alread i'll have lots of time to concentrate on the device suff ... 01:18 janeW flint: ogra and I are somewhat constrained by mdz's call wrt priority etc 01:19 ogra but i dont give promises for specs that arent even running as a proof of concept locally for me, please understand that 01:19 flint yeah verily, we require a Jedi, and they are in short supply... 01:19 janeW bring em on 01:19 jelkner i have to leave in 10 minutes, any chance we can sneek in a quick documentation report? 01:19 janeW yes jelkner go ahead 01:20 ogra goby is still waiting for a review from pitti, so we most likely wont see it on the flight2 CD 01:20 jelkner kjcole and i have been meeting each weekend to work on the cookbook 01:20 ogra ok, i'm done 01:20 jelkner here is where we are: 01:20 flint jelkner, you are SUCH a whiner...go ahead :^) 01:20 jelkner 1. we've taken the original source and convereted it to plain text 01:21 jelkner 2. we have edited the first 2 chapters, removing tuxlab specific stuff 01:21 janeW jelkner/ kjcole - sounds good :) 01:21 jelkner 3. we are planning to use lore to mark it up so we can have quick, web ready copy === juliux_ [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:21 janeW jelkner: is it quite a chore? 01:21 jelkner 4. we will finish removing tuxlab specific stuff the next few weeks 01:22 juliux_ hi all 01:22 kjcole 1.5 We've broken it into several separate files, basically along chapter lines. 01:22 jelkner 5. then we will begin adding edubuntu specific information 01:22 jelkner so it is a build down and then build up process 01:22 jelkner one thing to keep in mind that effects artwork 01:22 zakame jedi! 01:22 janeW jelkner: sounds very logical and sequential jelkner, i aksed kjcole yesterday already, i'd like to have regular reviews of the 01:22 ogra tech stuff in there, the tuxlabs technical side is quite different from our implementation ... 01:23 jelkner if we want the book out by dapper release === mhz [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mhz is here 01:23 jelkner it would be very helpful if we could have the artwork at least a few weeks early 01:23 janeW hi mhz: congrats re CC membership 01:23 jelkner so we can include screen shots with the correct artwork 01:23 ogra jelkner, we have an artwork deadline in the release schedule 01:23 janeW jelkner: you need new artwork? 01:23 jelkner thats all i have 01:23 ogra thats some weeks before the doc deadline afaikl 01:23 mhz thanx janeW 01:23 kjcole ogra, the tuxLab cookbook made me curious about "wizzy" (which I assume is one of those differences) 01:24 jelkner no, i mean whatever artwork dapper will have 01:24 ogra jelkner, yes 01:24 ogra thats what i talked about 01:24 janeW jelkner: ok fair enough, screenshots would make sense, do you need to change or add to the illustrations too? 01:24 jelkner great 01:24 jelkner add to 01:24 ogra there are two weeks between artwork and doc deadline for exactly this purpose 01:24 jelkner mostly screenshots 01:24 jelkner excellent 01:24 janeW wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule <- for dates 01:25 jelkner ok, i'm finished === bmonty [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:25 janeW jelkner: excellnt, I am very please to hear there's been progress with this :)) === Hirion [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:25 kjcole I've contacted both the original (?) author and illustrator, and buttered them up, but haven't asked for anything. 01:25 janeW thanks 2 you both for taking you w/e for this . 01:25 janeW kjcole: have they responded and been friendly? 01:25 kjcole I get the impression they'd be willing, provided there's time. 01:25 janeW kjcole: awesome 01:26 kjcole janeW: Both replied very positively. 01:26 janeW :) 01:26 flint jelkner, I recall that the original tuxlab docs had a lot in them about physical infastructure, how are you handling this in transition to dapper ubuntu 01:26 ogra flint, we should keep it ... 01:26 janeW agreed 01:26 jelkner we will keep it 01:26 kjcole Also, as I said in e-mail a bit premature, but just something to keep in the back of heads: When/If hardcopy publishing, perhaps Lulu Press... 01:26 jelkner but edubuntu will be more specific 01:26 janeW we should also have hardware specs in there, we get asked about that alot 01:26 ogra the physical stuff will be the ame everywhere 01:26 mhz janeW: I am running to a meeting (2 actually) I am sorry I am not here today. However, I have just sent an email to the ML where I report on everything I have been upto. 01:27 jelkner to the distro 01:27 jelkner tuxlab is a project, not a distro 01:27 ogra janeW, they should be on the website 01:27 janeW mhz: great, thanks 01:27 jelkner so it was more general 01:27 janeW yes, understood 01:28 jelkner ok, folks, i need to run... 01:28 janeW ok any more of the documentation? 01:28 jelkner same time next week 01:28 ogra yup 01:28 janeW thanks jelkner , have a good day 01:28 jelkner bye 01:28 flint later jeff...thanks. 01:28 ogra bye 01:28 janeW ogra: I presume other docs like about edubuntu etc will come later in the cycle, it;s still a bit early for that now 01:28 ogra yup 01:29 janeW howevere I see ubuntu has a release note page up, to gather stuff as it happens, should we do the same? 01:29 ogra mdz has put up a dapper release notes page, we should probably do that too now 01:29 ogra heh 01:29 janeW ok, I'll do that 01:29 janeW ok artwork? We're meeting once a week, and lore's pretty simple as markup. One thing is it 01:29 kjcole doesn't (yet) produce an index, though I understand that's in progress too. That's it from me and documentation. 01:29 janeW is there any one here to talk about that? 01:30 ogra mhz is gone .... 01:30 ogra any news from the canonical side ? === janeW hasn't heard of lore, but if it works for you and saves in a usable format I am happy === mhz still here ogra :) 01:30 ogra for the professional stuff ? 01:30 janeW ogra: no nothing yet. silbs is still not back in the office, so I don;t expect anything till she is back and settled 01:30 flint lore is best found with the search term python-lore... 01:31 kjcole lore is the Twisted Python's built-in documentation stuff for their docs, converts to HTML, LaTeX, and a couple of others I think. 01:31 ogra i'd still like to know if we get pro artwork for all three age stages we'll have 01:31 janeW has anyone responded to the recent mailing list messages offering help? 01:31 flint the neat thing about lore is that it is default installed in the badger by default :^) 01:32 janeW I know mhz is doing great things in the spanish speaking commmunities, but we need to harness the english speaking offers of help too 01:32 kjcole toxictoadz has been approved as a member of the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks, but I haven't written back yet. 01:32 mhz janeW: harness, how do you see it? 01:32 janeW ogra: re art, I'll try to get an answer on that soon... by the way do you agree that the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain ? 01:33 ogra yes 01:33 kjcole (and mhz... well, he's already here, isn't he. ;-) He's also a cook.) 01:33 flint janeW, is there leather involved :^) === mhz is not giving opinions today or he'll get motivated to stick around :D 01:34 janeW glad there are so many cooks... dont spoil the book :P 01:34 kjcole janeW, (I think the e-mail you were referring to was from toxictoadz) 01:34 ogra and beware the salt :) 01:34 flint janeW, I mean about the harnessing...can you point to a page about the levels Jane? 01:35 ogra flint, its on the meeting records 01:35 ogra the part from ubz 01:35 mhz flint: thx for harnessing question.. I hadn't got that either 01:35 mhz oops 01:35 janeW flint: levels? 01:36 ogra hmm, it actually isnt ... 01:36 flint janeW, I mean designs 01:36 janeW I was talking about toxictoad and Babak Manssouri and any others that come along 01:37 janeW flint: sorry I am not understanding you today 01:37 kjcole toxictoadz looks to be more of a translation and artwork person 01:37 ogra flint, the artwork package will be configurable to select between 3 age levels ... 01:37 ogra there is no further magic involved :) 01:37 janeW by harness I meant if someone offers help, grab them and suck them dry.... 01:37 janeW (joking) but make the most of it... 01:37 flint janeW, the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain these are the levels... 01:37 ogra flint, since we'll get a professional designer i cant say much more 01:38 janeW flint: Ahhh I understand the levels now... 01:38 flint janeW, is levels an appropriate term? 01:38 janeW flint: it's not much more that that for now, so we are starting with a clean slate... what we have now (apart from wallpaper) is liked for junior 01:38 janeW flint: looks? 01:39 flint janeW, it's ok nobody understands me (SIGH!:^) === ulinskie [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting janeW, I must have missed Babak Manssouri. I haven't paid as much attention to the 01:39 kjcole artwork e-mails. Do you recall if he (I'm assuming "he") was artwork or text or unspecified? 01:39 ogra the mid ager will require a icon set decision ... 01:40 janeW has anything happned with the a11y stuff? 01:40 flint ogra, ollie will this require a choice screen in the installer? 01:40 flint janeW, what ally? 01:40 ogra janeW, they are working on a liveCD for massachusets afaik 01:40 janeW ogra: ok 01:40 ogra flint, yes 01:40 Kamion flint: I certainly hope not 01:41 Kamion ogra: please discuss that with me, that's very suboptimal 01:41 ogra it needs to 01:41 janeW flint a11y = accessability (apparently) 01:41 kjcole flint, ally = accessibility 01:41 Kamion (later) 01:41 ogra yup 01:41 flint janeW, Ally = my wife. 01:41 janeW ogra: are we doing edubuntu express at all? 01:41 ogra flint, thats an 11 not ll 01:41 kjcole flint, is she accessible? ;-) 01:41 janeW flint: so is she accessible? 01:41 janeW *duck* 01:42 ogra janeW, it will be on the liveCD, so yes .... 01:42 flint you all are bad people... 01:42 kjcole janeW, great minds... 01:42 janeW kjcole: *high five* 01:42 ogra janeW, but that will install only the workstation version 01:42 janeW ogra: oic, ok makes sense 01:42 janeW btw did you all see you slachdot mention? 01:42 ogra janeW, i dont plan a specific edubuntu version 01:42 janeW ogra: and someone NEEDS to mention LTSP there 01:43 janeW s/c/s === ogra doesnt write on /. 01:43 kjcole Nice! And that guy Greg Philips? who did the nice review in his blog... 01:43 janeW yes :) 01:43 flint ogra, ollie what the heck is up in Massachusetts? 01:43 janeW ok we are chatting again - which is fine as long as someone isn't waiting to talk about something important... 01:44 ogra flint, they are in the decision process to switch theor municipalities ... 01:44 ogra to linux 01:44 flint janew, I think the slashdot piece repudiated your graphic choices... 01:44 ogra or some other stuff ... 01:45 flint ogra, I am in the next state over. let me know who/how I can get involved please. 01:45 kjcole Since we're just chatting, any thoughts/post-Dapper+x fantasies regarding publication or is that a Doc Team question? 01:45 ogra flint, no idea .... i only know that they wahted to look at ubuntu but require full a11y support 01:46 kjcole Also, not sure of the appropriate meeting: I've been in touch with a friend who 01:46 ogra so the a11y team tries to provide a liveCD to test ... 01:46 ogra flint, you might want to contact TheMuso or dholbach about it === pburkholder [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:46 flint kjcole, publish or perish eh? I see the connection know between ally and dapper. Thanks ollie for the contact names. 01:47 janeW flint: I didn't get that... but I was hearing pl saying it's nothing but a different desktop, completey missing the LTSP component === march [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:47 march hi@all 01:47 janeW kjcole: for the cookbook you mean? is blind and was a professional Braille proofreader for the Library of Congress. He's 01:47 kjcole peripherally helping with both a11y and helping me make connections with LoC to get a cookbook officially part of their collection... 01:47 ogra janeW, i saw people mentioning the LTSP 01:48 kjcole janeW: The cookbook in particular, but other stuff as well possibly. 01:48 janeW kjcole: if we make it rock we can may be convince the sabd to publish it janeW, the Slashdot review really played up the angle of a distro for geek 01:49 flint children. This is hitting the nail on the head (or in this case geekletts ont he head :^) 01:49 kjcole janeW: Ah. Well, then that *potentially* simplifies things. 01:50 janeW flint: agreed === mhz has wikied the mail sent for better use http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/WeeklyUpdates/2005Dec7 01:50 flint kjcole, jez kevin, if you write a good book, somone will publish the silly thing. Keep your shirt on and write! 01:50 mhz ok, sorry you all, gotta run! 01:50 mhz bye 01:50 flint mdz, thanks! 01:51 dholbach flint: i guess that dcc didn't work through my router/firewall-thingie 01:51 flint janeW, ok enough stroking jane, what's next on your dreaded agenda? === janeW must get these notes up, and get back to dapper status updates, in prep for ***4AM*** meeting tomorrow am 01:52 flint dholbach, what dcc thing my man? === hunger [n=hunger@p54A61F4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:52 dholbach flint: you made a dcc chat request? 01:52 Kamion janeW: 2am surely ... 01:52 ogra flint, artwork is always last :) 01:52 janeW the ones that moaned about not enough time are not even here this week, and so we have extra time. 01:52 janeW Kamion: 4am for me (UTC +2) 01:52 Kamion oh, didn't realise .za was so far ahead 01:52 janeW Kamion: yup 01:53 ogra just for the record, we have a popular contributor to edubuntu, linus sent a little app :) 01:53 janeW Kamion: you wanna add anything esle to edubuntu? 01:53 Kamion nope 01:53 janeW ogra: oh yes! 01:53 janeW ogra: he hasn't responded to me yet... 01:53 ogra its a cool thingie but has an awful gui :) 01:53 Kamion only comment really is that adding installer questions is non-trivially awkward, and with the live installer you have to design two UIs 01:53 Kamion I'd really very strongly recommend making it easily switchable after install instead 01:53 Kamion (you have to do that anyway) 01:54 janeW Kamion: ITA 01:54 Kamion the ltsp hack for edubuntu breezy nearly managed to break ubuntu netboot 01:54 ogra Kamion, yes, we can decide on a defaulut ... 01:54 Kamion and only didn't by dumb luck 01:54 janeW ogra: do you agree, we should have a default and then make it switchable after install? 01:54 Kamion janeW: ITA? 01:54 ogra janeW, see above :) 01:54 janeW I Tend to Agree 01:54 flint dholbach, sorry I am a nubie re dcc... 01:54 Kamion ah, ok 01:55 dholbach flint: don't worry :) 01:55 kjcole ogra, thingie? More specific? 01:55 ogra Kamion, and i'm not sure if we want to keep the ltsp hack.... it doesnt make sense for multiarch ltsp 01:55 janeW flint: and with me you are either stroked or whipped - take your pick :P 01:56 ogra kjcole, it logs out a given user afer a certain amount of time ... 01:56 ogra and shows a timer .... 01:56 ogra (the time is written in tcl and looks awful, the tool iself is very cool) 01:56 ogra *timer 01:57 Kamion ogra: I can see more justification for ltsp-client-builder 01:57 flint Kamion, you are not refering to the "lotr" patch when you talk of an ltsp hack are you? 01:57 Kamion flint: no === zakame_ [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:57 ogra Kamion, i'd rather have http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ for post install action 01:57 flint Kamion, gotcha. 01:58 ogra so you can select the target arch for the clients it's just technically difficult at the moment to have different installer flow for 01:58 Kamion different flavours (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu), for pretty much the same reason as we can't have different base systems for different flavours; a lot of it's done by priority in the archive and we don't have per-flavour priorities 01:58 Kamion flint: referring to the thing in the Edubuntu installer that builds an LTSP client chroot during install 01:58 ogra Kamion, but thats neither speced nor do i put time into it currently, its only a base for community contributions 01:58 flint Kamion, i am on the page thanks 01:59 Kamion ogra: integrating that into the live installer would be sane I think, but probably dapper+1 01:59 ogra yes 01:59 ogra thats what its planned for 01:59 ogra (dapper+1) 02:00 kjcole Tick-tock... Time for me to run to work so I can make the A11y Team meeting. (Someday, maybe I'll do work for my office again too...) 02:00 ogra i did only the glade stuff and the worst backend part (dhcp...) te rest is for community contribution and has a non predictable deadline === pirast [n=pirast@p508B2B82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 02:01 ogra janeW, meeting done ? === pirast [n=pirast@p508B2B82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 02:02 janeW yup thanks guys 02:02 ogra thanks janeW :) 02:02 janeW everyone OUT ;P