28-09-07
Sep 28 14:00:08 dholbach hello everybody - welcome to another MOTU Q&A session
Sep 28 14:00:28 dholbach if you're here for the session, please quickly introduce yourself 
Sep 28 14:01:06 dholbach I'm Daniel Holbach, MOTU for quite a long time now and trying to make it as easy as possible to join the developer crowd - if you still have questions after the session, please mail me with anything
Sep 28 14:01:40 dholbach Who else do we have here?
Sep 28 14:01:45 flohack Hi! I'm one of the developers of ktikz, a small application designed for scientific writers who use TikZ for drawing their illustrations. I try to get ktikz into Ubuntu
Sep 28 14:02:03 dholbach great to have you here flohack
Sep 28 14:02:12 TheMuso Hi. I am Luke Yelavich, a MOTU since January, and packaging lead for the UbuntuStudio project, as well as a regular accessibility team contributer.
Sep 28 14:03:05 seb128 Hi, I'm Sebastien and I'm working on the Ubuntu Desktop for canonical
Sep 28 14:03:34 dholbach anybody else?
Sep 28 14:03:43 BugMaN Hi! I'm Maurizio, i try to improve my skills on packages activities
Sep 28 14:03:53 dholbach great to have you here, BugMaN
Sep 28 14:03:55 pleia2 hey, I'm Lyz, I do some software packaging for Debian, will sort of be lurking (I'm at work) but am interested in starting to pick up on how things work in MOTU
Sep 28 14:04:18 dholbach AstralJava, adam_b: we're going through a quick round of introductions atm - nice you are stopping by
Sep 28 14:04:35 dholbach pleia2: excellent
Sep 28 14:04:55 porthose Hi I packaged ampache for debian, just hanging out
Sep 28 14:05:06 dholbach porthose: nice to see you again
Sep 28 14:05:18 porthose
Sep 28 14:05:31 dholbach ok, maybe everybody else will introduce themselves during the session; let's go
Sep 28 14:05:53 dholbach the documents I can suggest to all those of you who are new to packaging are
Sep 28 14:05:57 dholbach - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU (of course)
Sep 28 14:06:14 dholbach - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes (to start playing with tools you use for packaging everyday)
Sep 28 14:06:38 dholbach - https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ (to look up whatever might be new to you)
Sep 28 14:07:05 dholbach https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation (has important links to all kinds of packaging docs)
Sep 28 14:07:39 dholbach who of you started packaging new software or working on existing packages already?
Sep 28 14:08:05 porthose new
Sep 28 14:08:07 flohack I just uploaded ktikz to REVU, could someone please give me a link to the review procedure, or explain? Do I have to ask someone here for a review explicitly, or are you reviewing packages all the time and should I just wait until my package is reviewed?
Sep 28 14:08:08 jussi01 Hei, Im Jussi, Im a motu mentoree - hopefully one day I'll get to MOTU. Im also part of the ubuntu studio team
Sep 28 14:08:21 flohack so that would be new then
Sep 28 14:08:29 dholbach flohack: yes, that's a NEW package
Sep 28 14:09:03 dholbach flohack: good question... the MOTU policy says that two MOTUs will have to give a positive review for your package
Sep 28 14:09:15 flohack Yes that's clear from the docs
Sep 28 14:09:26 TheMuso Since we are close to a release, bug fixing is more of a priority at the moment, so your package likely won't be looked at till next cycle.
Sep 28 14:09:31 dholbach flohack: you can ask for reviews on #ubuntu-motu on the ubuntu-motu-mentors@ mailing list, but at the moment we're in NewPackagesFreeze
Sep 28 14:09:44 dholbach so we're focusing more on existing bugs, etc
Sep 28 14:09:47 TheMuso dholbach: That too.
Sep 28 14:10:10 dholbach flohack: but it does not hurt to send a mail to ubuntu-motu-mentors@; somebody with a bit of free time will look after your package
Sep 28 14:10:15 flohack I thought that was just for main atm...but you just released beta...which probably introduced the freeze i suppose
Sep 28 14:10:34 TheMuso flohack: The freeze has been in place for a few weeks actually.
Sep 28 14:10:34 dholbach http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule has more info on all the freezes
Sep 28 14:10:59 porthose During next release cycle will MOTU be reviewing packages in PPA's
Sep 28 14:11:25 dholbach porthose: yes, if they have bugs with needs-packaging assigned to them
Sep 28 14:11:29 TheMuso porthose: They would be better on revu, as there is a comments system that allows for viewing of what has been reviewed, and what needs work etc. IMO
Sep 28 14:11:52 flohack Is FeatureFreeze the relevant deadline for new Universe packges?
Sep 28 14:12:03 dholbach yes, it's as TheMuso says; we currently are in a state where we have not integrated the PPA system into our review processes fully yet
Sep 28 14:12:24 porthose Cool Thx
Sep 28 14:12:52 dholbach flohack: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
Sep 28 14:13:22 dholbach Who of you worked on existing packages already? Like applied a patch?
Sep 28 14:13:42 norsetto me
Sep 28 14:13:46 jussi01 me
Sep 28 14:13:51 BugMaN me sometimes
Sep 28 14:14:00 AstralJava o/
Sep 28 14:14:04 dholbach great
Sep 28 14:14:11 dholbach how did you get your packages uploaded?
Sep 28 14:15:17 dholbach first of all, I'm pleased to see that you are working on existing packages like that - that's one thing I like about MOTU: if there's a bug that bothers you, it's very easy to just change it and get things fixed
Sep 28 14:15:49 dholbach did you make use of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess to get the change included in Ubuntu or did you ping somebody to get it done?
Sep 28 14:16:37 BugMaN yes, usually I subscribe bug to universe or main sponsors
Sep 28 14:16:38 jussi01 no, pinged
Sep 28 14:17:00 jussi01 nice page to know though
Sep 28 14:17:02 dholbach BugMaN: nice
Sep 28 14:17:22 dholbach jussi01: yeah, it's good to use that process, because you're not blocked on individual persons, who might or might not have time
Sep 28 14:17:32 BugMaN dholbach: i done that via LP and not with a tool
Sep 28 14:17:40 flohack Thank you very much for helping! Unfortunately I have to get back to my thesis. Keep up the good work!
Sep 28 14:17:44 dholbach jussi01: also you get input from not just one, but lots of different people
Sep 28 14:17:55 dholbach flohack: let me know how your attempts at becoming a MOTU go
Sep 28 14:18:09 dholbach flohack: I'm keen to see you on that team and keen to see you project in Ubuntu soon
Sep 28 14:18:09 flohack I'll do!
Sep 28 14:18:12 dholbach rock on!
Sep 28 14:18:19 flohack thanks!
Sep 28 14:18:36 dholbach BugMaN: yeah that's fine too; as long as ubuntu-*-sponsors are on the bug
Sep 28 14:18:49 dholbach does anybody have any concrete questions?
Sep 28 14:19:00 dholbach any package or problem we could take a look at together?
Sep 28 14:19:55 jussi01 dholbach: is there a list of things you need to know for becoming a motu?
Sep 28 14:20:03 dholbach jussi01: good question
Sep 28 14:20:16 dholbach jussi01: no, there's not; but the process is very easy and very straight-forward
Sep 28 14:20:27 TheMuso My answer to that would be, you can't know everything, but you need to know where to go to get the answers you seek.
Sep 28 14:20:45 dholbach 1) basically you contribute changes, new packages, patches, etc by the process described above
Sep 28 14:21:05 TheMuso THings you do need to know, are how to read and understand diffs, understand the commonly used files in the debian directory, and how a package goes together.
Sep 28 14:21:06 dholbach 2) at some stage your sponsors tell you "hey man, you should be able to do this yourself; you're doing good work"
Sep 28 14:21:19 dholbach 3) you send a small application to the MOTU Council
Sep 28 14:21:25 dholbach 4) You become MOTU
Sep 28 14:21:34 jussi01 ahhh
Sep 28 14:21:37 dholbach https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment is the process for that
Sep 28 14:21:52 dholbach it's really straight-forward and it takes people like norsetto just a few weeks 
Sep 28 14:21:53 jussi01 cool. thank you
Sep 28 14:21:54 * dholbach hugs norsetto
Sep 28 14:22:08 * norsetto hugs dholbach back
Sep 28 14:22:16 jussi01 (and people like jussi01 a few years...lol)
Sep 28 14:22:24 dholbach but TheMuso has a good point: it's really important to know who to ask and when to ask other people
Sep 28 14:22:47 dholbach that's why it's good to be on the ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing lists and ask people if you're unsure
Sep 28 14:22:56 dholbach also to get your packages reviewed by a variety of people
Sep 28 14:23:02 dholbach jussi01: I doubt that
Sep 28 14:23:16 TheMuso Agreed. Getting known amongst the MOTUs, means a better chance of becoming one yourself.
Sep 28 14:23:31 dholbach hey gpocentek
Sep 28 14:23:43 gpocentek hello dholbach
Sep 28 14:23:50 jussi01 dholbach: One more question - is it necessary to become an ubuntu member before becoming a motu?
Sep 28 14:24:01 TheMuso jussi01: No.
Sep 28 14:24:04 dholbach jussi01: no, motu membership includes ubuntumembers membership
Sep 28 14:24:14 jussi01 ok.
Sep 28 14:24:24 dholbach if you want to get involved with the MOTUs and don't know what to work on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO has a variety of easy bugs and packages to fix
Sep 28 14:24:47 dholbach for example the weekly bitesize tasks at the bottom of the page
Sep 28 14:24:52 huats jussi01: and you will notice that everyone is very nice with you when you start (even after ofcourse...)
Sep 28 14:24:54 * TheMuso has been trawling the big pile of universe bugs lately, and found a fair few that he could fix.
Sep 28 14:25:11 jussi01 huats: very true
Sep 28 14:25:18 TheMuso SO theres plenty there, just be prepared to do some bug triaj along the way. :p
Sep 28 14:25:44 dholbach https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unmetdeps for example
Sep 28 14:25:56 norsetto jussi01: a little word of advice from a fresh motu: don't be shy or afraid to ask, ask, ask, and when in doubt ask. oh, and ask
Sep 28 14:26:00 dholbach that's a list of bugs of packages that are not installable in gutsy at the moment
Sep 28 14:26:07 * jussi01 needs to head home from work, will catch you all later.
Sep 28 14:26:15 TheMuso jussi01: Thanks for dropping by.
Sep 28 14:26:17 jussi01 norsetto: thanks...dont worry... I do
Sep 28 14:26:17 dholbach jussi01: see you around and let me know how things go
Sep 28 14:26:27 ian_brasil hi ..i have just ported a couple of apps to ubuntu mobile. I assume that I need to make the .deb packages now and then ping someone when it is done ..is this the correct procedure. Also is there a canonical tutorial for packaging?
Sep 28 14:26:31 BugMaN dholbach: for those bugs it's better to have a pbuilder envy for gutsy to test?
Sep 28 14:26:32 jussi01 dholbach: np. I will
Sep 28 14:26:52 dholbach BugMaN: and probably a chroot to test-install the packages in afterwards
Sep 28 14:27:00 dholbach BugMaN: but yeah, that's a requirement
Sep 28 14:27:05 BugMaN dholbach:
Sep 28 14:27:09 BugMaN dholbach: ok
Sep 28 14:27:26 TheMuso dholbach: Do we have a good document explaining what a chroot is?
Sep 28 14:27:32 dholbach ian_brasil: I can paste you a few documentation links I mentioned at the beginning of the session
Sep 28 14:27:41 ian_brasil cool
Sep 28 14:27:43 dholbach TheMuso: DebuggingProgramCrash has one I think
Sep 28 14:27:57 TheMuso dholbach: ah ok.
Sep 28 14:28:09 dholbach sudo mkdir /chroots; sudo debootstrap gutsy /chroots/gutsy should work I think
Sep 28 14:28:20 dholbach (getting debootstrap from -backports is necessary for that)
Sep 28 14:28:28 norsetto TheMuso: I find this very good https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
Sep 28 14:28:49 dholbach ah nice
Sep 28 14:28:57 TheMuso norsetto: Yeah thats another good one, but it uses the slowly phasing out dchroot.
Sep 28 14:29:14 dholbach ian_brasil: after that uploading them and asking for review using http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess will get you reviews for those packages
Sep 28 14:29:15 norsetto TheMuso: yes, but it says so
Sep 28 14:29:15 TheMuso I use LVM snapshots with chroots and sbuild personally.
Sep 28 14:29:59 dholbach ian_brasil: after having gone through a bunch of successful sponsored uploads, people will ask you to become a MOTU yourself and you can send an application to the MOTU Council
Sep 28 14:30:03 dholbach ian_brasil: that's basically it
Sep 28 14:30:40 dholbach any more questions?
Sep 28 14:30:51 dholbach any packages / patches we should look at together?
Sep 28 14:30:55 ian_brasil dholbach: that helps a lot...thx
Sep 28 14:32:04 Goliath23 dholbach: i have a technical question. debuild fails on my machine here with an error message.
Sep 28 14:32:19 Goliath23 can I post it?
Sep 28 14:32:26 dholbach Goliath23: fire away
Sep 28 14:32:34 Goliath23 checking if C++ programs can be compiled... no
Sep 28 14:32:34 Goliath23 configure: error: Your Installation isn't able to compile simple C++ programs.
Sep 28 14:32:37 Goliath23 Check config.log for details - if you're using a Linux distribution you might miss
Sep 28 14:32:40 Goliath23 a package named similar to libstdc++-dev.
Sep 28 14:32:56 dholbach Goliath23: do you have build-essential installed?
Sep 28 14:32:56 TheMuso Goliath23: DO you have build-essential installed?
Sep 28 14:32:58 Goliath23 I have the standard c++ libs installes. on my computer at home debuild works fine
Sep 28 14:32:59 dholbach hehe
Sep 28 14:33:02 Goliath23 yes
Sep 28 14:33:12 dholbach is this a certain package?
Sep 28 14:33:22 dholbach or some other software?
Sep 28 14:33:33 Goliath23 nono, ist ksplash-engine-moodin
Sep 28 14:33:42 Goliath23 works fine and builds fine at home
Sep 28 14:33:56 dholbach try sudo apt-get build-dep ksplash-engine-moodin
Sep 28 14:34:12 Goliath23 nothing installed
Sep 28 14:34:23 dholbach then config.log will have the answer
Sep 28 14:34:33 Goliath23 can I somehow remove and reinstall build-essential and all deps of it?
Sep 28 14:34:39 norsetto Goliath23: can you paste your configure.log to pastebin?
Sep 28 14:35:01 Goliath23 norsetto: sure
Sep 28 14:35:42 Goliath23 http://pastebin.com/m658d4398
Sep 28 14:35:46 slytherin Is there any page mentioning what kind of changes can/should/should not be done when creating a package from existing debian package?
Sep 28 14:36:13 TheMuso slytherin: What reason do you have to modify a debian packge for Ubuntu
Sep 28 14:36:29 TheMuso Usually f possible, its better to send the fix to Debian, and sync accross to Ubuntu.
Sep 28 14:36:49 dholbach slytherin: not to my knowledge. but there's an easy rule of thumb: if it addresses a certain need that we can't achieve by syncing from debian, keep the changes as small as possible
Sep 28 14:36:54 Goliath23 norsetto: hm, line 1012 something about pthread..
Sep 28 14:37:52 slytherin TheMuso: ex. I modified copyright year and download url in debian/copyright of a package. I also added version for libvorbis-dev as per my understanding of configure sript.
Sep 28 14:37:57 dholbach slytherin: the thing is: we re-merge all our changed packages with debian in the beginnign of the release cycle and the bigger your change, the more conflicts it's probably going to have with a new version from debian we're merging with
Sep 28 14:38:25 TheMuso slytherin: That sounds like something that could go to Debian, and synced accross.
Sep 28 14:38:38 slytherin dholbach: That is right. That is why I wanted to know if their are any guidelines.
Sep 28 14:38:39 dholbach slytherin: that sounds like cosmetical changes the user probably has no benefit of
Sep 28 14:39:01 dholbach slytherin: no strict guidelines, but bear in mind that you or somebody else will have to re-do your changes to package when merging again
Sep 28 14:39:02 norsetto Goliath23: yes, sounds like an header problem
Sep 28 14:39:22 slytherin dholbach: hmm
Sep 28 14:39:29 dholbach slytherin: does that make sense?
Sep 28 14:39:37 slytherin dholbach: yes, it does
Sep 28 14:39:39 dholbach ok
Sep 28 14:40:03 dholbach Goliath23: what kind of modifications did you do?
Sep 28 14:40:43 Goliath23 dholbach: no modifications.. I guess I'll be able to continue from here... I guess I have to remove some deprecated libsomthing-dev ...
Sep 28 14:40:56 norsetto Goliath23: try reinstalling libc6-dev
Sep 28 14:41:06 Goliath23 kk, thanks guys
Sep 28 14:41:38 huats Hey all
Sep 28 14:41:45 dholbach generally a: sudo apt-get install devscripts build-essential fakeroot; sudo apt-get build-dep <package>; fakeroot apt-get source -b <package> should enable you to build it
Sep 28 14:41:49 Goliath23 ah... apt-get remove --purge libpthread-dev did the job!
Sep 28 14:41:50 dholbach hey huats
Sep 28 14:42:27 dholbach any more packaging problems? any packages we should look at?
Sep 28 14:42:28 huats oups I thought Goliath23 was over... I let you finish and then I ask mine
Sep 28 14:42:34 dholbach huats: fire away
Sep 28 14:42:38 Goliath23 i'm finished
Sep 28 14:42:49 dholbach ian_brasil: any mobile packages you have lined up?
Sep 28 14:42:56 huats I have problems for solving bug #36733
Sep 28 14:43:04 huats the rubber part....
Sep 28 14:43:07 dholbach oh, the py[co] one?
Sep 28 14:43:14 huats yep
Sep 28 14:43:15 norsetto bug 36733
Sep 28 14:43:17 * dholbach remembers the bug number
Sep 28 14:43:22 dholbach https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adonthell/+bug/36733
Sep 28 14:43:32 huats you saw it so many times...
Sep 28 14:43:37 dholbach yes
Sep 28 14:43:55 dholbach alright, which source package are we looking at?
Sep 28 14:44:02 huats well I have been searching a way to remove the pyc and the only one was to make a find /rm
Sep 28 14:44:03 dholbach rubber?
Sep 28 14:44:05 huats rubber
Sep 28 14:44:06 huats yep
Sep 28 14:44:08 slytherin is ubotu sleeping? Why didn't he read the bug description for us?
Sep 28 14:44:16 dholbach slytherin: no idea
Sep 28 14:44:24 ian_brasil i have ported gpodder and liferea to UME
Sep 28 14:44:30 dholbach ian_brasil: wow - nice
Sep 28 14:44:34 ian_brasil i python and i C app
Sep 28 14:44:43 huats so I tried to insert that in debian/rules inside the install target
Sep 28 14:44:58 huats but nothing seems to work...
Sep 28 14:45:08 dholbach can you post the new rules file somewhere?
Sep 28 14:45:14 huats yep
Sep 28 14:45:19 huats pastebin....
Sep 28 14:45:20 dholbach does everybody understand what huats' bug is about?
Sep 28 14:45:25 ian_brasil I am writing the UME Guide so my idea is to document the whole MOTU process for other mobile devs
Sep 28 14:45:37 dholbach ian_brasil: that's great - we should chat about that at some stage
Sep 28 14:45:56 ian_brasil for sure..i was hoping you would say that
Sep 28 14:46:01 porthose is there a way to setup multiple pbuilder like one for feisty, one for gusty etc?
Sep 28 14:46:17 dholbach porthose: I think that's documented too on PbuilderHowto
Sep 28 14:46:22 TheMuso porthose: Yes. There is a script in ubuntu-dev-tools to do this I think.
Sep 28 14:46:30 dholbach yeah
Sep 28 14:46:33 TheMuso pbuilder-dist
Sep 28 14:46:40 dholbach huats: do you have the rules file up somewhere?
Sep 28 14:46:53 huats paste.ubuntu.com/491/
Sep 28 14:46:58 porthose Thx
Sep 28 14:47:11 huats sorryfor the delay (the file was on another compuer)
Sep 28 14:47:24 huats I have put in purpose the find/rm twice
Sep 28 14:48:08 TheMuso huats: WHy did you put the find line twice?
Sep 28 14:48:25 huats TheMuso: juste to show you where I have tried to use it
Sep 28 14:48:34 * dholbach does a test build: apt-get source rubber; #download rules file, stick into debian/rules
Sep 28 14:48:45 TheMuso huats: Right
Sep 28 14:48:53 TheMuso huats: Wht has worked, and what hasn't?
Sep 28 14:49:15 huats nothing has worked... it builds correctly, but the .pyc are still there...
Sep 28 14:49:25 TheMuso Right.
Sep 28 14:50:22 TheMuso huats: Have you considered building the package step by step by hand, and attempting to determine which step creates the files? By steps I mean, fakeroot debian/rules clean, ./debian/rules build, fakeroot debian/rules install and fakeroot debian/rules binary
Sep 28 14:50:57 huats TheMuso: no but I'll be very interested in doing it...
Sep 28 14:51:00 TheMuso I personally have found this very helpful, especially recently, in finding problems.
Sep 28 14:51:56 huats TheMuso: how can I do that ?
Sep 28 14:52:13 huats TheMuso: after a pbuilder login or not ?
Sep 28 14:52:31 TheMuso huats: You need to make sure you have all the package's build-dependencies installed, and run the above commands manually.
Sep 28 14:53:00 TheMuso huats: If you can login to a pbuilder, and get the package into the chroot, thats great, but things like this need a general purpose chroot handy.
Sep 28 14:53:11 TheMuso i.e not specifically for pbuilder use.
Sep 28 14:53:41 huats TheMuso: ok so I chroot to my pbuilder env
Sep 28 14:53:59 huats TheMuso: and the I can build it step by step...
Sep 28 14:54:09 TheMuso huats: Yes.
Sep 28 14:55:05 dholbach I found the problem
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach install: build
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach dh_testdir
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach dh_testroot
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach dh_clean -k
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach dh_installdirs
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach $(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rubber/usr
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach find $(CURDIR) -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} \;
Sep 28 14:55:11 dholbach # Build architecture-independent files here.
Sep 28 14:55:22 dholbach this will make it work
Sep 28 14:55:41 dholbach you have to put *.pyc into Sep 28 14:55:47 huats dholbach: I know Sep 28 14:55:51 huats dholbach: Sep 28 14:55:52 TheMuso find is funny like that at times. Sep 28 14:55:56 dholbach else the shell will expand it to the first thing it finds Sep 28 14:56:13 dholbach ok great Sep 28 14:56:16 dholbach another bug solved Sep 28 14:56:24 huats dholbach: oh Sep 28 14:56:28 dholbach huats: let me know when you put up the debdiff for the fix Sep 28 14:56:36 huats dholbach: I had misread your sentence Sep 28 14:56:40 huats dholbach: ok Sep 28 14:56:50 huats dholbach: sorry for bothering... Sep 28 14:56:52 dholbach huats: does it make sense? Sep 28 14:56:57 dholbach huats: no, you're not bothering at all Sep 28 14:57:08 dholbach huats: what do you think how many times I made that particular mistake Sep 28 14:57:11 TheMuso huats: This is what we are here for. Sep 28 14:57:26 huats dholbach: yes... you use the same command at the same place, but with the correct syntax... Sep 28 14:57:32 dholbach it's a mistake that's easy to make Sep 28 14:57:45 dholbach in debian/rules you often mix shell code with Makefile code Sep 28 14:57:46 TheMuso dholbach: Often not quoting the name parameter stuff works. Sep 28 14:57:53 dholbach it's easy to be wrong there Sep 28 14:57:58 TheMuso As I said, find can be an unusual beast. Sep 28 14:58:02 dholbach yes Sep 28 14:58:16 dholbach any other bugs you want to talk about? if not I have one Sep 28 14:58:46 * TheMuso will be heading off to bed soon, so won't be round much longer. Sep 28 14:58:51 dholbach I talked about 'unmetdeps' bugs before; package that are not installable because their dependencies cannot be resolved Sep 28 14:59:00 dholbach I'll make this the last one then Sep 28 14:59:08 dholbach we should have another session next week Sep 28 14:59:21 * norsetto keeps TheMuso awake by hammering him on the head every 30 sec Sep 28 14:59:24 dholbach https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/145538 is one of the list I mentioned earlier Sep 28 14:59:27 dholbach norsetto: you're so mean Sep 28 14:59:33 TheMuso norsetto: DO you want me to fix bugs, or not? Sep 28 14:59:48 dholbach can anybody find out what the problem is with this bug? Sep 28 15:00:05 * norsetto keeps TheMuso awake by gently hammering him on the head every 30 sec Sep 28 15:00:15 TheMuso norsetto: DO you want me to fix bugs, or not? Sep 28 15:00:26 TheMuso To fix bugs, I need sleep at some point. Sep 28 15:00:45 dholbach if you look at the bug you will notice that it mentions amd64 - you can ignore that Sep 28 15:00:52 * norsetto sings a lullaby to TheMuso Sep 28 15:00:53 dholbach this bug affects all architectures Sep 28 15:01:14 * TheMuso listens to the lullaby, and then sings along with it, singing a harmony. Sep 28 15:01:30 dholbach so? anybody up for fixing the bug? Sep 28 15:01:47 * norsetto notice all the cats are suddendly fleeing his house .... Sep 28 15:02:24 dholbach ok, maybe we can get this one fixed next time or you can look at it and let me know what you find Sep 28 15:02:58 norsetto dholbach: give them time to donwload the source Sep 28 15:03:18 dholbach you don't need to download the source if you're on gutsy Sep 28 15:03:33 dholbach just try to install it by running sudo apt-get install --dry-run wammu Sep 28 15:04:21 TheMuso dholbach: Often though, you do need to look at the source package to get a good idea of why the unmet dep is the way it is. Sep 28 15:04:49 dholbach TheMuso: absolutely Sep 28 15:05:27 * TheMuso makes the meeting the last task for tonight. Sep 28 15:06:27 AstralJava wammu: Depends: python-gammu (>= 0.21) but it is not going to be installed Sep 28 15:06:48 dholbach AstralJava: yep Sep 28 15:06:54 norsetto AstralJava: and why is that? Sep 28 15:06:54 adam_b dholbach: the dry run was happy to install (until I updated repositorys, then as AstralJava) Sep 28 15:07:05 dholbach why is this not possible to install? Sep 28 15:07:07 AstralJava Hang on, I'll get the source. Sep 28 15:07:17 norsetto AstralJava: no need yet ..... Sep 28 15:07:45 adam_b python-gammu is only 0.20-1 Sep 28 15:07:49 dholbach exactly Sep 28 15:08:01 dholbach so we need to get a newer version from Debian Sep 28 15:08:04 AstralJava Heh, didn't think of that. Sep 28 15:08:16 dholbach http://packages.debian.org/src:python-gammu Sep 28 15:08:48 adam_b dholbach: thats ok with freeze? Sep 28 15:08:59 dholbach https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#SyncingAndMerging is the process for that Sep 28 15:09:13 dholbach adam_b: it will have to get a FeatureFreeze exception Sep 28 15:09:24 dholbach https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4 Sep 28 15:09:38 dholbach but I'm sure it will get granted, because it fixes a serious bug Sep 28 15:09:47 dholbach does anybody of you want to work on that? Sep 28 15:09:53 dholbach and follow up with our findings on the bug report? Sep 28 15:10:34 * AstralJava can volunteer if no one else wants to Sep 28 15:10:48 dholbach AstralJava: that's great Sep 28 15:10:57 dholbach AstralJava: be sure to let me know if it gets stuck somewhere Sep 28 15:11:05 TheMuso AstralJava: Great. Feel free to ask me any questions if you have any. Sep 28 15:11:10 dholbach so you see; sometimes being a MOTU is some kind of detective work Sep 28 15:11:10 adam_b what about testing if wammu really needs the new version of python-gammu? Sep 28 15:11:22 dholbach and it's important to follow up on bug reports with what you've found out Sep 28 15:11:29 AstralJava Sure thing, and dholbach, TheMuso is my sponsor so I'll see him first before bugging all the world. Sep 28 15:11:37 AstralJava Oh wait, no that's wrong. Sep 28 15:11:40 AstralJava Nevermind. Sep 28 15:11:56 * AstralJava is still a bit buggered-up because of the flu Sep 28 15:11:58 TheMuso AstralJava: mentor. Sep 28 15:12:09 AstralJava Heh, yeah that too. Sep 28 15:12:12 dholbach adam_b: we inherited both versions from Debian (no Ubuntu changes), so the debian maintainer must have thought that it's necessary to have that new version Sep 28 15:12:34 norsetto adam_b: note as well the version of wammu Sep 28 15:12:34 dholbach adam_b: as it happens the debian maintainer is also the upstream author, so it's probably right what he's doing Sep 28 15:13:01 * porthose thinks this has been a good Q&A session Sep 28 15:13:02 dholbach adam_b: but you're right; sometimes version numbers are too strict and you can "bend" them to make packages installable again Sep 28 15:13:10 dholbach adam_b: in this case I think it's not applicable Sep 28 15:13:17 dholbach porthose: thanks a lot for that Sep 28 15:13:22 dholbach it's been great to have you all around Sep 28 15:13:30 adam_b ahh ok, and probably worth checking that the newer python_gammu dosnt need any other new things? Sep 28 15:13:39 dholbach and make sure you're on the ubuntu-motu-mentors list, then I'll announce the next session there Sep 28 15:13:43 pleia2 dholbach: quick policy question? Sep 28 15:13:43 norsetto everybody a good applause for dholbach! Sep 28 15:13:45 dholbach adam_b: exactly Sep 28 15:13:45 TheMuso Great to see the Q&A sessions are attracting people Sep 28 15:13:48 dholbach pleia2: fire away Sep 28 15:13:59 * norsetto applauds Sep 28 15:14:10 dholbach thanks a lot... applaud yourselves too - you all were great Sep 28 15:14:16 dholbach and I hope to see you all as MOTUs soon Sep 28 15:14:18 * porthose claps Sep 28 15:14:29 * TheMuso seconds dholbach. Sep 28 15:14:35 pleia2 so I'm wondering what the opinion is about packaging in general because of my involvement with Ubuntu-Women, we've sort of been pushing women to contribute directly to Debian rather than Ubuntu since it'll benefit both distros Sep 28 15:14:48 * huats claps Sep 28 15:15:07 dholbach pleia2: right... that's a valid point Sep 28 15:15:14 pleia2 so is this appropriate? Sep 28 15:15:27 dholbach pleia2: I can only speak for myself: I contribute to Ubuntu, because I use Ubuntu and test things on Ubuntu Sep 28 15:15:30 pleia2 I do tend to suggest they check out their package in Ubuntu too, see how it's doing and all, if it needs help Sep 28 15:15:39 * pleia2 nods Sep 28 15:15:48 dholbach pleia2: but I have close contact to debian developers, so I let them know about things I do Sep 28 15:16:06 AstralJava Thank you norsetto, dholbach, TheMuso and all others for having us here. Sep 28 15:16:41 dholbach or another example: if I package a new software, I follow up on a debian RFP (request for package) or ITP (intent to package) bug to let them know, that I've already done the work in UBuntu, so they can benefit from that Sep 28 15:17:00 pleia2 dholbach: good to know, thanks Sep 28 15:17:14 dholbach pleia2: so my answer would be something like: to contribute to Debian (and make other people benefit from our work too) you don't have to be a debian developer Sep 28 15:17:34 dholbach as long as you're easy to work with and maintain good channels of communication Sep 28 15:17:42 dholbach I hope that makes sense Sep 28 15:18:14 pleia2 well the RFP and ITP bug notification if you package in ubuntu is a great idea Sep 28 15:18:39 Hobbsee of course, it helps that there are DD's around that you can persuade to upload your package to debian too Sep 28 15:18:59 pleia2 I come from Debian, so that's why my dev work is over there, and it's neat to see my packages end up in Ubuntu too Sep 28 15:19:07 TheMuso Well folks, I must be off. Hope to see all you hopefuls around in the community, asking questions, and fixing bugs/updating packages. Go back to MOTU/Q&A/Logs. Great job.
MOTU/Q&A/Logs/28-09-07 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:37:22 by localhost)