03:01 raphink      hello everybody :)
03:01 Kyral        I'm here
03:02 kiko         hey there
=== kjcole is Kevin Cole
03:02 LaserJock    here
03:02 raphink      Seveas: hehe i'm here :)
03:02 Seveas       mhz, smurf
03:02 Seveas       *ping* too
=== smurf is here ;-)
=== mhz is here
03:02 Seveas       We'll have to wait for the CC members to show up
03:03 mhz          in the meantime, Greeting Ubunteros :)
03:03 kiko         greetings
03:03 Seveas       hi
03:03 MarioMeyer_  hi :P
03:03 Madpilot     morning, everyone
=== Kamion reaches for the list of phone number
03:03 Kamion       s
03:03 robotgeek time
03:04 StevenK      Speaking of morning, it's neatly 1am here. :-/
03:04 Seveas       Kamion, aren't they on speed dial yet? :)
03:04 mhz          StevenK: thx for being here, then
03:04 ogra         Kamion, sabdfl just mailed me, he seems awake and in reach of a PC
03:04 Madpilot     0600 here :(
03:04 kjcole       No rest for the wicked.
=== Kyral reaches for caffine
03:04 LaserJock    Madpilot: me too
03:04 ogra         but i bet he forgot about the early time today
03:04 MagicFab     I invited Corey Burger and Daniel RObitaille but it's 6AM for them :(
03:04 mhz          Madpilot: very early, thx
03:04 Kamion       elmo's coming
03:05 StevenK      mhz: I went to bed early, and my wife woke me at 0000
03:05 mhz          MagicFab: i'm glad you're here
03:05 jsgotangco   hehe
03:05 kjcole       New Ubunutu project: Tivo for #ubuntu-meetings.  (Better than log files.) ;-)
03:05 Seveas       it's conveniently 15:00 here :)
03:05 mhz          StevenK: hehehe, that happens all the time if you have kids too
=== jsgotangco is babysitting at the moment
03:05 elmo         ok, here
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:05 Seveas       hi elmo
03:06 \sh          morning gentlemen
03:06 Kamion       elmo: do you know where Mark is at the moment?
03:06 raphink      hi \sh
03:06 mhz          morning \sh
03:06 elmo         somewhere in the US
03:06 elmo         he probably won't be up for a couple of hours
03:06 zakame       hi mhz :D
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:07 mhz          zakame: helloz
03:07 kjcole       Hullo, all.
03:07 elmo         unless we snagged mako, quorum might be hard
03:07 Kamion       apparently he just sent e-mail, I'll try his mobile
03:07 mhz          kjcole: is your page updated
03:07 zakame       elmo: thanks for adding me to the keyring today :-)
03:07 zakame       evening \sh :)
03:07 Kamion       sabdfl is being summoned
03:08 Seveas       hehe
=== jbailey [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:08 Seveas       hi jbailey
03:08 kjcole       mhz: Not recently...
03:08 mhz          kjcole: well, it looked good to me :)
03:08 jbailey      Seveas: hi
03:09 jsgotangco   summoning powers
=== mhz plays Magic, the Gathering, and plays 9 lands to summon sabdfl
03:10 Kyral        hehe
03:10 zakame       mhz: wow
03:11 dholbach     mhz: dunno, if 9 are enough, you might have to tap all your artifacts too
03:11 mhz          lol!
03:11 Kyral        dangit dholbach beat me to it :D
=== StevenK ponders something to eat.
=== Seveas casts a fireball and burns all Magic cards
=== zakame hasn't played Magic for a looong time :(
03:11 Kamion       s/summoned/hunted/ apparently
03:11 mhz          Seveas: boooh, you killed out entertainment
=== Madpilot ponders caffeine
03:11 mhz          :)
03:11 jsgotangco   good luck on summoning sabdfl in th snow
03:11 jsgotangco   heh
=== dholbach neither... like 7-8 years
=== Kyral plays a Moment's Peace and blocks the fireball
03:11 Kamion       can we sort out meeting times in the meantime maybe?
03:11 Seveas       mhz,
03:12 Seveas       hours of entertainment
03:12 Kamion       although we don't have mako which makes that awkward
03:12 kjcole       jsgotangco: Did he get caught in it?
03:12 Seveas <-- that one i mean
03:12 mako         i'm here
03:12 mhz          Seveas: jsgotangco could tell us about mobile entretainment for our Sharp Zaurus, maybe?
03:12 Seveas       greetings, mako
03:13 jsgotangco   mako!!!!
03:13 Kamion       mako: aha, we can start then
03:13 Seveas       we could start now if sabdfl is evasive, let's do the naming round
=== mhz *sighs*
=== Seveas is Dennis Kaarsemaker
03:13 mako         sorry i'm a bit late.. i need like 1 minute to get organized
03:13 zakame       hello mako :)
=== ogra is OliverGrawert
03:13 kjcole       Hi, mako.  (And thanks -- I think -- for the speedy order on the CD's.  Or thank whoever's responsible.)
=== MarioMeyer_ is Mario Meyer
=== dholbach is Daniel Holbach
=== \sh is Stephan Hermann
=== nalioth is Marek Spruell
03:13 kiko         mako!
=== Kamion is Colin Watson
=== kjcole is Kevin Cole
=== StevenK is Steve Kowalik
=== Kyral is Chris Peterman
=== jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco
=== mhz is MauricioHernandez
=== mako is benjamin mako hill
=== Madpilot is Brian Burger
=== LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
=== kiko is ChristianReis
=== alerios [n=alerios@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== zakame is Zak Elep
=== bhuvan is Bhuvaneswaran
=== azeem is Michael Banck
=== raphink is Raphal Pinson
=== robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan
03:14 Seveas       arzajac, there?
=== hno73 is Henrik Omma
03:14 Seveas       ubuntugeek, there?
=== MagicFab is Fabian Rodriguez
03:14 Kamion       sabdfl's on his way
03:15 zyga         (everyone needs to say their name?)
03:15 Kamion       the ubuntite/ubuntero thing is first on the agenda
=== smurf is Matthias Urlichs
                   so to alleviate confusion from those bug reports, Ubuntite/Ubuntero simply means that you've signed the code of
03:16 Kamion       conduct, and conceptually it should be a prerequisite for membership/maintainership (although I'm not sure if
                   Launchpad actually implements that)
03:16 jsgotangco   it does
03:16 Kamion       I'm also not sure that it really matters that much what it's called, or why the CC needs to decide on it :-)
03:16 elmo         Kamion: it doesn't
03:17 Seveas       ok, but which one is the official word for person-who-signed-the-coc-and-pledged-allegiance-to-ubuntu :)
03:17 Kamion       kiko: I assumed sabdfl had renamed it to Ubuntero, which would kind of make it official
03:17 Kamion       did somebody explicitly ask for it to be brought up here?
03:17 Seveas       yes, kiko
03:17 mako         it was originally ubuntite
03:17 elmo         Kamion: implement it as a prerequisite for membership, I mean.  the only thing signed_CoC enforces is email
03:17 Kamion       Seveas: I'm asking kiko if somebody asked him
03:17 kiko         well
03:17 kiko         yes
03:17 kiko         it's been asked on a number of occasions
03:17 mako         that is what was written in the process documents
03:17 kiko         we need to change the wording in Launchpad
03:17 Seveas       Kamion, ah, sorry /me grabs glasses
03:18 kiko         I just want to make sure that this is the definitive answer
03:18 mako         but if sabdfl has very strong feelings, that's fine
03:18 Kamion       it was changed from Ubuntite to Ubuntero in Launchpad
=== mako nods
03:18 mako         i saw that
03:18 mako         i was a little a confused..
03:18 kiko         (I personally think Ubuntu member is a better name but ignore my opinions :-P)
03:18 kiko         now
03:18 kiko         there are places that still say Ubuntite
03:18 Seveas       kiko, Ubuntero != member
03:18 ogra         its pre-membership
03:18 kiko         the reason this happened is because it was hacked in by a certain person
03:18 Kamion       why not just stick a tooltip/link on it explaining what it means? even I think the wording is confusing
03:18 kiko         okay
03:18 kiko         we will
03:18 kiko         however
03:19 Kamion       but that's a launchpad development issue
03:19 kiko         I want someone to:
03:19 kiko         a) be a point of contact that will formally email to request this sort of policy change
03:19 kiko         b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the CC's fault
03:19 kiko         we all know how mark is with email and requests
03:19 Kamion       in this case it wasn't at all the CC's fault, but OK :-)
03:20 kiko         and I want to make sure we don't drop the ball so often
03:20 mako         kiko: mark made this change right?
03:20 kiko         the fact that is says ubuntite and ubuntero in places makes me want to DIE
=== kiko turns his back to mako and whistles
03:20 Kamion       we're kind of at the point where we need a CC mailing list
03:20 Kamion       (i.e. the four of us)
03:20 ogra         kiko, we really dont wnat that you want to die
03:20 kiko         that is all on that topic from me :)
03:21 elmo         kiko: dude, this change was made directly in launchpad with no consultation with the CC - what exactly do you expect
                   from us here?
03:21 kiko         well
03:21 kiko         I'll put it this way
03:21 mako         kiko: it was *always* ubuntite and not particularly controversial AFAIK..
03:21 elmo         kiko: we've got about as much chance of fixing this as you have of demanding sabdfl always add tests when he commits
03:21 mako         kiko: now, the alternative is not particularly controversial either
03:21 ogra         mako, until sabdfl changed it :)
03:21 mako         it's just a name and i, for one, am not going to fight anyone over it
=== sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:21 ogra         there he is
03:21 sabdfl       morning all
03:21 Seveas       there's the guilty one!
03:22 kiko         lol. well, people here seem to know something about the word "ubuntero", while the first time I saw this was in a
                   launchpad landing. :)
03:22 sabdfl       sorry to be late, didn't hear about it till breakfast
03:22 Kamion       Definitive name for Ubuntero: [WWW] (ChristianReis)
03:22 Kamion       sabdfl: ^-- point on agenda
03:22 jsgotangco   hehe
=== kiko looks at sabdfl
03:22 Kamion       kiko: we only know it because (a) it randomly came up in random people's blogs like a year and a half ago, (b) we all
                   saw it in launchpad
03:22 Kamion       14:19 < kiko> I want someone to:
03:22 Kamion       14:19 < kiko> a) be a point of contact that will formally email to request this sort of
                   policy change
03:22 Kamion       14:19 < kiko> b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the
                   CC's fault
03:23 mako         sabdfl: it was originally ubuntite.. LP code seems to now call it ubuntero in some but not all places
03:23 kiko         this is a bit confusing to me but okay. I thought the CC would deliberate on this sort of naming changes.
03:23 Kamion       sabdfl: is that something the CC can/should do? obviously we can hardly stop you from making changes in launchpad :-)
03:23 Seveas       Kamion, duct tape?
03:23 mako         i don't think anyone is going to fight over the name
03:23 mako         i'm not at least
03:23 sabdfl       ok
03:23 kiko         I'm not either
03:23 MagicFab     Kamion: articfacts ?
03:23 kjcole       I think folks who are not very far along in the process should be known as Ubunturists (Ubunt-tourists).
03:24 mako         but would like consistency :)
03:24 sabdfl       consistency is good :-)
03:24 zyga         heh
03:24 zakame       hi sabdfl :D
03:24 sabdfl       i changed it in the places i knew it existed, it's a bug as ubuntite anywhere
03:24 zyga         Ubuntu*ists could be exploited to many different and ackward names
03:24 sabdfl       though, someone did point out there is a gender issue in some languages
03:24 Seveas       sabdfl, ok, we will maill all occurences of ubuntite to you :)
03:25 mako         sabdfl: in what sense?
03:25 mako         sabdfl: in "ubuntero"
03:25 sabdfl       Seveas: rather file bugs on LP
03:25 elmo         mako: ubuntero is male?
03:25 nalioth      elmo: in latin cultures, yes
03:25 mako         ubuntite seems quite neutral
=== mako nods
03:25 Kamion       "Ubuntu" has case issues in some languages - my general opinion is "whatever" unless I'm actively sorting out
03:25 sabdfl       i cant remember, but in some languages it's definitely one or the other
03:25 MarioMeyer_  ubuntite would sound female in portuguese
03:25 raphink      yes ubuntero is definitely male
03:25 kjcole       sabdfl, Oops. Not thinking multi-lingually.  My mistake.
03:25 sabdfl       ubuntite seems a little uptite
03:25 MagicFab     Ubuntera would be female in spanish
=== mako likes ubuntite personally
03:26 mako         bbut only because people from seattle are seattlites
03:26 sabdfl       hmm... we could of course let people specify themselves
=== jsgotangco likes ubuntite too..its the original term i believe....
03:26 mako         sabdfl: no :)
03:26 mako         sabdfl: just choose one :)
03:26 MagicFab     Ubuntero/a would mean docs in spanish would have to accomodate for both (in some places)
03:26 bhuvan       +1 for ubuntite
=== smurf likes ubuntero
03:26 Kamion       sabdfl: as long as there's a link to what it means in lp so that people quit asking, I really don't care
03:27 Seveas       bhuvan, we're not voting :)
03:27 sabdfl       Kamion: +1
03:27 Kamion       and I don't think the CC should get into the bikeshed argument of which it should be
03:27 elmo         I think we shouldn't underestimate the gender-bias in ubuntero
=== jsgotangco feels ubuntero sounds like a mexican folk singer in costume
=== raphink likes ubuntero but thinks the male/female issue might be a pb
03:27 elmo         there's enough problems with barriers for women in IT without us adding potential new ones
03:27 \sh          sabdfl: is there no female/male/to be defined sex suffix for this in zulu?
03:27 dholbach     what's wrong with using "ubuntu member" and translating "member" in different languages shouldn't be hard - it doesn't
                   sound cool, but it "works" :)
03:27 mako         i don't think gender-specific name for people who have signed the coc is a good idea
03:27 sabdfl       elmo: you and your lost causes ;-)
03:27 Kamion       dholbach: because it's *not* membership
03:27 kiko         ubuntera/ubuntero? :-P
03:27 mako         kiko: please no
03:27 raphink      dholbach: ubunteros are not necessarily members yet
03:27 MagicFab     UBunturist sounds great, although a bit long
03:27 sabdfl       UBUNTER(A/O)
03:28 zakame       jsgotangco: lol
03:28 sabdfl       ubunterrorista
03:28 kiko         lol
03:28 ogra         eek
03:28 \sh          ubunturist sounds like ubuntu terrorists
03:28 jsgotangco   that's jdub
=== jsgotangco hides
03:28 bhuvan       let it not be terrorist :)
03:28 dholbach     haha
03:28 Kamion       ok, this is what I mean about bikeshed arguments
03:28 Seveas       Jdubuntu :)
=== raphink looks around if there's no CIA agent
03:28 zakame       \sh: haha
03:28 mako         ubuntonians
03:28 kjcole       sabdfl, I think that one only applies to benevolent dictators...
03:28 zyga         debianities, genotooities, fedoraxies are thankfully non-existant, I agree with dholbach's suggeston for something
                   simple, Kamion is right too
03:28 sabdfl       ok, leave it as it is, with a link to an explanation
03:28 Seveas       ok
03:28 sabdfl       next?
03:28 Seveas       more kiko
03:28 mako         sabdfl: wait..
03:28 elmo         umm
03:29 ogra         as is is broken
03:29 mako         the problem is that it's inconsistent
03:29 ogra         we need one name
03:29 zakame       yubs?
03:29 mako         does leave it as it is mean "make it all ubuntero"
03:29 StevenK      It's a name we have came up with. We can just declare it is gender-neutral, right?
03:29 elmo         StevenK: no
03:29 sabdfl       right, i was saying ubuntero is the current one, ubuntite is a bug, we can do a vote on it to settle how it should be
03:29 Seveas       mako, sabdfl said: File bugs when you see Ubuntite - inconsistency can not be solved right here right now :)
03:30 mako         cool
03:30 raphink      StevenK: not sure, in latin cultures it feels funny to call a female with -o name
03:30 kiko         well
03:30 sabdfl       raphink: not even really cool females?
03:30 smurf        sabdfl: I don't think so
=== Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:30 elmo         sabdfl: no
03:30 smurf        sabdfl: Spain is not Russia ;-)
=== bhuvan prays no new gender issue on ubuntero in future
03:31 raphink      sabdfl: let's see, females I see on linux systems like to be recognized as such even more than in other places most of
                   the time...
03:31 \sh          .oO(what is a really cool female?"
03:31 Seveas       \sh, my fiancee :)
03:31 raphink      \sh: lol
=== ogra thinks ice princess
03:31 sabdfl       i have another 30 mins, guys
03:31 elmo         sabdfl: dude, I've already had people complain about this to me.  I'm not arguing for hypotheticals
=== alerios [n=alerios@] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Abandonando"]
03:31 raphink      females who get to use Ubuntu deserve much ;)
03:31 \sh          Seveas: but she is not from a latin country, right? ,)
03:31 raphink      hehe
03:31 Seveas       \sh, no
03:31 Kamion       StevenK: is the origin
=== jjesse [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:32 sabdfl       ok, i don't mind reverting to ubuntite, but i think it sounds trite and uptight :-)
03:32 ogra         lets move on ...
03:32 Kamion       it's expressly coming from idioms in other languages
03:32 Seveas       sabdfl, you should revert it anyway temporarily until we can come up with a Really Cool Name(tm)
03:32 mako         seems like next up is the typo in the CoC
03:32 kjcole       One could look at Esperanto rules and see if there's any kind of gender-neutral, language-neutral ending...
03:32 raphink      Seveas: lol
=== mhz thinks 'ubunter' is just perfect
03:33 Kamion       Typo in the Code of Conduct: [WWW] (ChristianReis)
03:33 Kamion       at least this one is definitely within the CC's purview ;-)
03:33 Seveas       indeed
03:33 Seveas       it means everyone will have to sign again
03:33 raphink      kjcole: names in esperanto finish with -o and are neutral. Male names finish with -ulo and female with -ino.
03:33 Seveas       raphink, we moved on already...
03:33 kiko         okay
03:33 sabdfl       those caps are a little scary
03:33 kiko         so there's a typo in the CoC
03:33 mhz          raphink: good point
03:33 sabdfl       we don't have to re-sign
03:33 Kamion       Seveas: no, there's no particular reason to require people to sign the most current version if it's just a typo
03:34 Seveas       ah ok
03:34 sabdfl       the system is smart enough to remember which version you signed
03:34 Kamion       it would have to be a new version, yes
03:34 sabdfl       and i think it has a list of currently valid versions
03:34 mako         i'm reading tha tcnetance and i can't even see the error
03:34 Seveas       if launchpad can handle multiple CoC's there's no problem
03:34 kiko         it can
03:34 sabdfl       s/it/is/
03:34 Kamion       while we're at it we should nominate somebody to do a general proofreading pass
03:34 mako         ah, ok
03:34 kiko         I just wanted to bring this matter to your attention
03:34 Kamion       I'm happy to volunteer for that
03:34 mako         sure, shhould bbe fixed
03:34 sabdfl       kiko: nicely done
03:34 kiko         sure
03:34 Seveas       who will fix it?
03:34 mhz          Kamion: would new versions include localisations?
03:34 ogra         Seveas, Kamion
03:35 Kamion       mhz: that's a separate issue
03:35 kiko         mhz, not yet, different topic.
03:35 mhz          okis
03:35 mako         mhz: we haven't talked about that
03:35 Seveas       .oO(Note to self: thorough proofreading of CoC for next meeting)
03:35 Kamion       ogra: I can't change launchpad
03:35 MagicFab     perhaps also include a reminder to people that have signed, whenever it changes
03:35 kiko         Seveas, I have someone to do that, I just want a new copy of the CoC, properly proofread.
03:35 ogra         Kamion, oh, misunderstood
03:35 kiko         I can also produce a list of people that have signed the old one
03:35 Kamion       Seveas: doesn't need to be in a meeting, I can just mail the CC a diff to make sure everyone's happy with the changes
03:35 sabdfl       mhz: we definitely want to do loclaisations of the CoC, just needs LP dev time
03:35 mako         kiko: well, go ahead and make that one-byte change
03:35 mako         it's uncontroversial
03:35 kiko         if we want to spam them to re-sign
03:35 sabdfl       kiko: no need for that no
03:36 Kamion       mako: I'd really like to avoid 1.0.1 1.0.2 etc. for successive one-byte changes
03:36 kiko         mako, I would rather only rev the version once this time
03:36 Seveas       kiko, neh, not for this change
03:36 kiko         ok
03:36 MagicFab     Kamion: align it with release cycles
03:36 mako         Kamion: so, wait until next week
03:36 kiko         I said spam for a reason :)
03:36 Kamion       shall I do this and mail launchpad@ with the diff once we're done
03:36 Kamion       MagicFab: no
03:36 mako         it's been there for a year, we can wait two weeks :)
03:36 mako         kiko: and no, i don't think people need to resign
=== sabdfl never noticed it before
03:36 bhuvan       we can post in mailing lists
03:36 Seveas       Kamion, sounds like a plan
03:36 Kamion       mako: it'll take ten minutes to do ;)
03:36 mhz          sabdfl: I asked because in case other people want to become members, I could ofer myself for the non-offcial version
                   so they could at least understant what they'll face whn they sign
03:36 kiko         Kamion, that would be perfect.
03:36 kjcole       kiko, since you have a way of knowing who signed, is there a way to just automatically build that into some sort of
                   announce mailing-list (broadcast only)?
03:37 sabdfl       mhz: we will do proper i18n for the CoC, just need to extend the system that tracks them
03:37 kiko         kjcole, not easily, but talk to me on #launchpad later about your use case and I'll see.
03:37 mako         yeah, i can take a look at it again also
=== mhz okis
03:37 mako         but people have a pretty amazing ability to see right through their own errors
03:37 Kamion       ok, NEXT :-)
03:38 Amaranth     mako: In more than just spelling and grammar. :)
03:38 Kamion       Automatix / forums nightmare argument issue
03:38 Kamion       are the relevant people actually here?
03:38 jsgotangco   forums...
03:38 robotgeek    I have a nice writeup here:
03:38 Amaranth     btw, holy crap i made it to a meeting
03:38 jsgotangco   haha
03:38 Seveas       automatix is the piece of crap that triggers reinstalls all over
03:38 Kyral        Seveas: Agreed :D
03:39 ogra         thats the one that breaks your sources.list, right ?
03:39 Kamion       robotgeek: thanks, please add that to the link farm on the agenda
03:39 robotgeek    that link provides all relevant background, and also provides the links to conversations in #ubuntuforums
03:39 Madpilot     and it's causing censorship problems in the forums...
03:39 Seveas       that last line may have been a violation of the CoC, but the script is SO DAMN STUPID, I already know of dozens of
                   people who had to reinstall after using it
03:39 nalioth      automatix is just a symptom of the larger issue
03:39 Kamion       (which we'll probably move to somewhere else, but anyway)
03:39 robotgeek    Kamion: sorry, i came up with it two hours ago. will do right away
03:39 Kyral        It adds the PLF repos for one thing...
03:39 zakame       er
03:39 mako         "thereby violating my rights given to me by GPL": i don't think you mean that
03:40 Kamion       so I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the post-deletions issue I've seen; however we have not yet heard the
                   administration say their piece
=== chmj [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:40 robotgeek    mako: it was GPL'ed, and they did not allow me to post my changes?
03:40 Kamion       and I don't particularly want us to hold a trial in absentia
03:40 ogra         and they are not here it seems
=== raphink wonders why magic scripts like automatix or easyubuntu are not replaced by series of inter-dependent packages in multiverse
03:40 Seveas       Kamion, indeed, but the forum administrators seem not to like coming to meetings
03:40 Amaranth     raphink: work on that was done where it made sense
03:40 Seveas       the almost always miss them
03:41 Amaranth     Yeah, the forum has really seemed to distance itself.
03:41 nalioth      are the ubuntuforums 'official' ?
03:41 Kyral        raphink: The reason why is because the majority of what they do is pull in things like w32codecs and SunJava
03:41 Seveas       nalioth, yes
03:41 Amaranth     no
03:41 Amaranth     err, since when?
03:41 ogra         yes
03:41 Seveas       since a long time already
03:41 ogra         warty
03:41 raphink      Kyral: well then it's not useful
03:41 mako         robotgeek: it would only be a GPL issue if you let you distribute the binary but not the source
03:41 jsgotangco   since we started paying part of the hosting...
03:41 Kamion       nalioth: yes, and Canonical contributes to their funding
03:41 robotgeek    mako: it's a bash script :)
03:41 Amaranth     ah
03:41 mako         robotgeek: this is a social problem, not a licensingg isssue
03:42 robotgeek    mako: agreed
03:42 mako         robotgeek: lets focus on the real issue
03:42 Amaranth     any canonical employees have any powers on the forum?
03:42 Amaranth     or any ubuntu members, even?
03:42 jsgotangco   no idea
03:42 nalioth      i think the forums needs a check-call, because there are major problems there. they seem to think the forums are not
                   part of the ubuntu community as a whole
03:42 Kamion       Amaranth: a number of forums folks are members
03:42 Kyral        I believe UbuntuGeek is a Member
03:42 Seveas       Amaranth, most of the forum staff are members
03:42 Seveas       so they should (but don't) respect the code of conduct
03:42 Kamion       but there are no Canonical employees in the administration to my knowledge (which is probably how it should be)
03:42 jjesse       it seems every meeting lately there are issues w/ the forums
03:42 jsgotangco   agreed
03:43 mako         alright, the accusations are flying hard and heavy
03:43 ogra         jjesse, yes, but the people never appear here
03:43 mako         the forums are *huge*
03:43 Amaranth     Kamion: I can see both sides of that one but I'd think having at least a mod would be a good thing.
03:43 MagicFab     PLF repos and ubuntu-fr docs are very non-free friendly - post install info includes Skype, msttfonts, MP3, etc.
03:43 mako         they are a massive portion of the ubuntu community
03:43 MagicFab , that is
03:43 jjesse       ogra: if they don't appear here, then how can we deal w/ them here?
03:43 mako         in terms of raw numbers, they are quite likely the largest part
03:43 ogra         jjesse, thats the prob :)
03:43 mako         it might  makes sense that there a proportional amount of disagreements come from them
03:43 jsgotangco   most of the time, the forums are a unique community by itself...
03:44 robotgeek    the problem is that Ubuntuforums tends to feel that they are not a part of this community, even starting off their own
                   wiki project
03:44 Kyral        MagicFab: I had a help case in where using the PLF repos seemed to cripple someone's system so bad that he couldn't
                   install build-essential
03:44 zakame       indeed :(
03:44 Seveas       ok, we are rescheduling CC meetings at the end of this one, should we just defer this for now and wait for the next
                   meeting so the forum staff can show up?
03:44 jsgotangco   robotgeek, that feeling is social
03:44 Seveas       without forum staff there is not much we can do now
03:44 \sh          Seveas: if they show up
03:44 Kamion       I didn't realise this was coming up until I looked at the agenda two hours ago
=== lamont [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:45 Kamion       did anyone explicitly ask the forums administration to show up here at this time?
03:45 mhz          robotgeek: I agree on that
03:45 robotgeek    half of the stuff is going to be gone, cause they prune the threads and all
03:45 Amaranth     robotgeek: So kassetra basically just moved every automatix-related post you made to the jail?
03:45 Seveas       they really should stop deleting things
03:45 Madpilot     Kamion: it's been posting at CCAgenda for a day or two
03:45 MagicFab     Some articles in ubuntu-fr planet explain how to use .debs directly etc. - I am not opposed to that but perhaps
                   guidelines for LoCos should extend the CoC and provide for this
03:45 Kyral        the Ubuntu Forums channel is #ubuntuforums if anyone wants to know
03:45 robotgeek    Amaranth: yup.
03:45 smurf        IMHO removing (meta-)controversial items instead of openly discussing them simply aggravates the problem in the long
03:45 sabdfl       smurf: +1
03:45 Kamion       Madpilot: yes, but I don't sit reloading that religiously
03:45 Madpilot     Amaranth: one of my posts was yanked too
03:45 nalioth      Amaranth: robotgeek was not the only one 'pruned'
03:45 Kamion       Madpilot: and I doubt forums admins do either
03:46 Seveas       Kamion, subscribe to it ;)
03:46 MagicFab     Madpilot: not everyone knows to subscribe to wiki pages
03:46 Amaranth     nalioth: That'd be like you and me kicking random people in #ubuntu. :P
03:46 sabdfl       so, i think Kassetra has misread the GPL
03:46 kjcole       smurf: Agreed.  Hiding stuff doesn't make it go away.
03:46 Kamion       Seveas: I just did, but still, there's a lot of noise, and it *still* doesn't address the issue that nobody has yet
                   owned up to asking the forums admins to be here
03:46 ogra         MagicFab, its one click
03:47 Seveas       Kamion, I'll ask for the next meeting
03:47 Amaranth     wtf
03:47 robotgeek    sabdfl: i think the issue was that arnieboy was a forum staff member
03:47 Kamion       Seveas: thank you
03:47 Amaranth     normal users can't get into the jail?
03:47 raphink      a consequence of documenting .deb installations too much is that many people come to pretend Ubuntu is hard to use
                   because they tried to install stuff this way instead of using apt-get (or GUIs)
03:47 Seveas       Amaranth, normal users can't see half of the forums
03:47 sabdfl       she seems to think that it requires permission to change the code and publish a modified version
03:47 Seveas       they are too closed for non-members too
03:47 MagicFab     ogra: I know, among many other click in the same page. The forum admins may not be familiar with it (I wasn't).
                   explicit invitation and "subscribe" should do it.
03:47 Amaranth     Seveas: Now that I have a serious problem with.
03:47 Kyral        I'll PM Kass on the Forums if anyone wants me to
03:47 Kamion       one of the threads linked to from the agenda does have arnieboy apparently threatening to delete bug reports (implying
                   doing it himself, although it wasn't explicit)
03:48 Madpilot     Kamion: that's exactly what happened to several posts, including robotgeek's
03:48 sabdfl       robotgeek: did the new version correctly credit arnieboy's original copyright?
03:48 robotgeek    sabdfl: yes
03:48 Kamion       MagicFab: no, if somebody needs to show up for some bit of arbitration, they need to be explicitly asked to show up,
                   rather than expecting everyone who might be involved in arbitration to subscribe all the time
03:48 sabdfl       Kamion: +1
03:48 robotgeek    sabdfl: i just added my name at the top, everything else was intact
03:48 smurf        sabdfl: I'd be inclined to treat that as a symptom for now; if the discussion would have (a) stayed open and (b)
                   people wouldn't immediately jump on each other, minor issues like what the GPL means are self-correcting
=== mako nods to smurf
03:49 sabdfl       smurf: well, i suspect the forums admins are super busy, and don't want to leave things out there
03:49 Amaranth     (off topic: claiming automatix is the successor to "ubuntu guide" doesn't make me feel too good about it)
03:49 MagicFab     Kamion: I was saying "invite them to meeting", but also "tell them to subscribe to the Agenda" as appropriate
03:49 sabdfl       they have to take decisions quickly, or it would all pile up
03:49 Seveas       Amaranth, you shouldn't
03:49 zakame       hm I think observing the code of conduct in the forums should be emphasized :(
03:49 Seveas       it's utter crap
03:49 Kyral        zakame: Here Here!
03:49 Kamion       MagicFab: I'm just saying I don't think the latter is an appropriate thing for us to ask them to do; most people don't
                   live for community council meetings
03:49 jjesse       Amaranth: people should be using the ubuntu guide that is included in the docs
03:49 mako         Amaranth: the fact it installs lots of non-free and undistributable software doesn't exactly help
03:49 robotgeek    Amaranth: it's Ubuntu Forums wiki:
03:49 nalioth      Amaranth: they dont claim that, there is another site that they make that claim about
03:49 mako         and (apparently) bypasses legally binding shrinkrap licenses
03:50 sabdfl       the question here is did Kassetra just make a mistake (easily corrected) or was she trying to help arnieboy and
                   ignoring the GPL in the process
03:50 Amaranth     nalioth: arnieboy makes that claim in his signature
03:50 Kyral        sabdfl: I have a log of an IRC "discussion" I had with the rest of the Forums community about it
03:50 jjesse       the doc team has had some disagreements w/
03:50 mako         sabdfl: i don't think it's fair to have this conversation without Kas or arniebboy
03:50 jjesse       the doc team has had some disagreements w/
03:50 Kyral        I could dig it up and post it someplace
03:50 Seveas       Kyral, post it for the next meeting
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03:50 Kyral        Seveas: Edited for content?
03:50 Seveas       we cannot really do anything now
03:51 MagicFab     Yeah, CoC should prevail
03:51 Seveas       Kyral, verbose
03:51 crimsun      I agree with mako
03:51 robotgeek    sabdfl: if you look at the google cache link, she did it knowingly. in fact, i believe she crafted the license
03:51 zakame       Kyral: I mean if people there simply delete posts (er even threaten deletion) that wouldn't do anyone good :(
03:51 sabdfl       the hotel just called to let me know that my "ground transportation" has arrived.
03:51 smurf        Hmmm. It works very well for; the forum there is *quite* busy too. Letting the members self-police, and
                   ping admins when necessary, basically works here.
03:51 Amaranth     Kyral: Can you email that to ?
03:51 Seveas       mako++
03:51 sabdfl       how very military
03:51 Kyral        Okay: Its ugly, tempers flared
03:51 Seveas       sabdfl, g'bye then
03:51 Kyral        Amaranth: After class remind me :P
03:51 robotgeek    sabdfl: nice talking to you
03:51 Kyral        I'll remmebr but just in case
03:51 Seveas       Shall we move on to the next topic?
03:51 Kyral        cya sabdfl
03:51 ogra         sabdfl, so dont forget your helmet ;)
03:51 Kyral        or your towel!
03:51 raphink      lol
03:51 Kamion       Seveas: if you're happy to take responsibility for asking some set of Kassetra, arnieboy, ubuntugeek, and/or other
                   admins to show up, that would be fantastic
03:51 kjcole       sabdfl: ta-ta
03:51 jsgotangco   bye sabdfl thanks for the email too
03:51 Kamion       sabdfl: see you
03:52 Seveas       Kamion, I will
03:52 MagicFab     sabdfl: quick remonider: ColombianTeam starting, hoping to see you there
03:52 Kamion       Seveas: thank you
03:52 zakame       bye sabdfl :D
03:52 Kamion       ok, NEXT
03:52 MagicFab     sabdfl: (in Colombia, next year)
03:52 Seveas       mhz,
03:52 raphink      sabdfl: have a good ground transportation ;)
03:52 Kamion       MauricioHernandez was approved during last meeting but he still does not appear listed as member in ?LaunchPad (it's
                   been 2 weeks)
03:52 sabdfl       mako: i still think we could easily take a view on the derivative work, and let Kas know that we think it's fine and
                   not in violation of the CoC and therefore does not need to be in the jail
03:52 mhz          Seveas: yup?
03:52 Kamion       mhz isn't approved because mako didn't vote (that I saw)
03:52 Kamion       mako: ?
03:52 Seveas       mako, you said you would vote for mhz later and didn't do so yet, so please :)
03:52 sabdfl       wait guys, i don't think we need to call the whole forums group in for every issue
03:52 mako         mhz++
03:52 mako         welcome
03:52 Seveas       mako, cool
03:52 Seveas       mhz, welcome aboard!
03:52 jsgotangco   lol
=== ogra applauds mhz ...
03:52 mhz          mako: thx, hehehe
03:52 sabdfl       the "censorship" here is just Kas enforcing what she understands
03:53 ogra         finally
03:53 Kamion       sabdfl: Kassetra and arnieboy, then? they seem to be the relevant pair
03:53 Seveas       (who has launchpad duty today?)
03:53 Kamion       Seveas: me
03:53 sabdfl       and we can rule that the code is fine to be published (even if we don't like the code)
03:53 mhz          ogra: finally :)
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03:53 ogra         :)
03:53 sabdfl       that should be enough for robotgeek to get what he wants
03:53 zakame       yay mhz !
03:53 Seveas       Next up kjcole
03:53 sabdfl       and Kas to gain a better understanding of the GPL
03:53 mhz          zakame: educool
03:54 kjcole       OK.  I assume we're talking the LoCo names and not my membership.
03:54 MagicFab     bien, mhz :D
03:54 sabdfl       if there is still censorship after that, then it's not accidental
03:54 Seveas       kjcole, correct
03:54 Kamion       sabdfl: right, needs someone who themselves has a good understanding of licensing to talk to them so that if they have
                   other issues then there can be a useful discussion rather than "uh ..."
03:54 mhz          MagicFab: thx, suerte a ti!
03:55 Amaranth     Kamion: Volunteering? :)
03:55 sabdfl       Kamion: they are welcome to ping any of us on IRC, if they need that clarification, but this one is simple, Kas was
                   not correct to jail the thread on the grounds of IP
03:55 Kamion       Amaranth: not especially :-/
03:55 kjcole       I've herded the US cats, as per smurf's request.  The consensus seemed to be Us<<State>><<City|CompassPoint>>
03:55 Kyral        I think we need RMS to talk to her lol
03:55 sabdfl       no need to turn it into a major issue
03:55 Amaranth     Kyral: We don't want to scar her for life...
03:55 Seveas       Kyral, :|
03:55 kjcole       e.g. UsTxAustin or UsTxNorth.
03:55 Kyral        Amaranth: lol
03:55 Kamion       kjcole: domain names aren't wiki-style ...
03:55 raphink      Kyral: +1
03:55 Seveas       kjcole, Do you think there will be so many teams?!
03:55 raphink      lol
=== Kyral actually wants to meet RMS :D
03:56 Seveas       Kyral, please don't go off-topic
03:56 Kyral        sorry
03:56 kjcole       Hyphens instead of wiki style was also an option.
03:56 ogra         Seveas, US is a bit bigger than europe ;)
03:56 Seveas       ogra, true, but 2 in texas?
03:56 smurf        kjcole: umm, would that be then?
03:56 Kamion       sabdfl: ok, how about I communicate that to her
03:56 jbailey      Seveas: In the US and Canada, it's often not so much number of teams as proximity.
03:56 kjcole       Seveas: The problem is we already have two in texas...
03:56 Seveas       smurf, that and ubutnu-us-tx-north@lists
03:56 Kamion       since everyone else is RUNNING AWAY :-)
03:56 ogra         Seveas, Texas is bigger than europe i guess :)
03:56 jbailey      Seveas: Canada is 14 times the size of France. =)
03:56 raphink      ogra: Tx is not much bigger than France or Germany
03:57 mako         i'm happy to talk to them
03:57 ogra         raphink, but still ...
03:57 Kamion       mako: hooray
=== mako knows a couple things about licensingg
=== Seveas cheers for mako
03:57 Kamion       :-)
03:57 MagicFab     jbailey: and half the people
03:57 Amaranth     Heh, I was just about to say mako probably knows best. :)
03:57 kjcole       Rewinding a bit: At UBZ, a few were talking about how "country" and "local" meant two different things.
03:57 sabdfl       cheers all
=== sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== CyBuX [n=cybux@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:58 Seveas       kjcole, anyway, sounds like a plan and since you don't need CC approval for such things you should simply ping smurf
                   to arrange it :)
03:58 mako         i'm going to finish reading the logs and then contact kas and arnieboy
03:58 kjcole       Local (to me and a few others) suggested a community where people were close enough to meet face to face.
03:58 jbailey      MagicFab: Right.  But a 5.5 time zone spread makes meetings very hard. =)
03:58 smurf        Fine with me, anyay
03:58 MagicFab     kjcole: and "locale" too
03:58 smurf        anyway
03:58 Kamion       Seveas: indeed
03:58 mako         does someone have arniboy's email?
03:58 Seveas       mako, will you ask them to come to the meeting too?
03:58 smurf        as long as people don't want :-/
03:58 robotgeek    mako:
03:58 Kamion       Seveas: no, that's obsolete
03:58 robotgeek    nothing's wrong with TX
03:58 Seveas       Kamion, ok
03:59 Kyral        robotgeek: lol
03:59 Seveas       So then we landed at new members
03:59 Kamion       Seveas: sabdfl ruled on it, none of us disagreed (and I think we all heartily agree), end of story :)
03:59 MarioMeyer_  why dont u do sub-domains.. like
03:59 raphink      :)
03:59 Seveas       MarioMeyer_, they do
03:59 Seveas       Kamion, couldn't agree more
03:59 mako         Seveas: sure
03:59 \sh          smurf: you could sell subdomains to* like ,-)
04:00 smurf        \sh: They're Canonical's ;-)
04:00 Seveas       anyway, anyone question/remarks about any of the previous topics?
04:00 MagicFab     I know if I go to Texas I wouldn't be searching for "TX" or "north.tx"
04:00 Seveas       going once
04:00 robotgeek    Seveas: wait...
04:00 mako         lets move on
04:00 mako         please
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04:00 mako         it's gonna be pumpkin time again sooner rather than later
04:00 Seveas       ok
04:00 robotgeek    Seveas: the main issue is not with my script/whatever, but with the censorship. However, that's for later?
04:00 Seveas       robotgeek, yes
04:01 Seveas       moving on now
04:01 Kamion       robotgeek: already ruled on and passed
04:01 robotgeek    good
04:01 Seveas       MagicFab
04:01 MagicFab     yes
04:01 MagicFab     posting summary...
                   WikiPage: - re-edited since last CC. I am originally from Colombia, have been
04:01 MagicFab     living in Quebec Canada since '89. I am part of Canadian Team, Marketing Team and recently helping Colombian Team get
                   started (Loco Contact). I started UbuntuInLibraries, I also occasionally do cleanup on the Wiki, post to forums or
                   help in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-es.
                   I currently work full-time as an Open Source software solutions consultant, focusing on security and migration issues
04:01 MagicFab     in Montreal. I have developed Linux training focused on Ubuntu which will be given at local libraries and ed.
                   facilities, I have strong links to the local community and I am mostly interested in advocacy/marketing (events,
                   etc.), local support & training and new users introduction / migration to Gnu/Linux
04:02 ogra         MagicFab participated a lot in te ltsp BOFs iirc ...
04:02 Seveas       to add: MagicFab was defered last time, since his wiki page was not clear enough on his contributions (being mainly in
                   advocacy) and he has been asked to return this time after fixing that
04:02 Kamion       mako: did you work with MagicFab over the last two weeks?
04:03 MagicFab     I asked Drobitaille, CBurger , HFiguiere (members) to come, they're all in timezones difficult to come
04:03 MagicFab     BUrger is here, also GuBa from (future) ColombianTeam
04:03 mako         MagicFab: did we? i don't remember doing more than a few messages
04:03 mhz          MagicFab: has also been active on marketing proposals and spreading ubuntu for latinamerican people
04:04 MagicFab     mako: no, I asked for input but didn't get any replies. However I asked other members/users and did many changes
=== Kamion finds
04:04 Seveas       Actively marketing and selling Ubuntu-related services locally: <-- any url on that?
04:05 mhz          Seveas, also MagicFab has started UbuntuInLibraries initiative
04:05 mako         i'm still concerned that many of the more substantial projects within the the ubuntu project have pages and edits that
                   are within the last week or two
04:05 MagicFab
04:05 MagicFab     :)
04:06 jsgotangco   mako, as if rushing for something?
04:06 jsgotangco   :)
04:06 Seveas       mhz, yeah I really like that one
04:06 mako         mhz: yes, but that page is 9 days old
04:06 MagicFab     mako: whois
04:07 mako         on a conference call next week, we discussed the idea of giving some more fixed guidelines in terms of what we meaned
                   by sustained projects
04:07 mhz          hmmm, it is probably because many non-english activities related to ubuntu are usually not logged somewhere
04:07 mako         basically, an involvement in/on a particular project that is 2+ months
04:07 mako         mhz: well, then we need testimonials
=== mako is still reading the detail page
04:08 Seveas       mako, advocacy is not always in projects
04:08 MagicFab     mako: well, Iasked you driectly for input, didn't get any. I didn't re-add myself to the CC agenda, so I thought it
                   was OK. Regardless, membership is not a requisite for me to keep contributing.
04:08 mhz          mako: that's why having latinamerican ubuntu memebers was so important
04:08 mako         Seveas: i understand that and i have been happy to accept other advocates
04:09 mako         and i'm going to be happy to accept MagicFab too :)
04:09 mako         but in fairness to everyone else, it seems like *some* testimonials would be useful
04:09 mhz          usually, many contributors do not get logged mainly because 99% of what they do is in spanish or other lang.
04:09 mako         in the absence of other documentation
04:09 Seveas       mako, the people who can are not yet here
04:09 mako         mhz: point me to spanish pages then
04:09 mako         other people have
04:10 MagicFab     how can I get that if theycan't come.
04:10 mako         Seveas: i understand that
04:10 jsgotangco   mhz, that shouldnt be an impendiment
04:10 MagicFab     mhz: all my contribs are listed there (my wiki)
04:10 mako         MagicFab: you can have them write it up? as comments on your page
04:10 mako         in email to the CC
04:10 mako         there are many options
04:10 Seveas       mako, that's an idea
04:10 mhz          jsgotangco: i know, it is just that even I had to make a decision... english or spanish. I chose english.
04:10 mako         i believe we have solved the communicating asynchronously problem ;)
04:10 Kamion       mako: perhaps we could mail those that Fabian lists under People and ask them for comments
04:11 Kamion       (hub, corey, daniel, sivan)
04:11 mhz          MagicFab: do you have a list or something?
04:11 mako         Kamion: seems good
04:11 MagicFab     mako: yes
04:11 mhz          mako: good point
04:11 MagicFab     Kamion: exactly
04:11 Kamion       mhz:
04:11 MagicFab     mako: they all need to be current members, right ?
04:11 Seveas       MagicFab, not per se
04:11 Kamion       mako: wanna do that, or shall I?
04:11 Seveas       but it helps
04:12 Kamion       certainly all the above are known to me, although I don't know hub so well
04:12 mako         MagicFab: they should have been around for a long time and are well known and trusted by the CC and teh community
04:12 mako         MagicFab: that will almost always make them members :)
04:12 mako         but need not
04:12 MagicFab     One thing I sense is that advocacy is always treated as second-class work. I feel I could become member by going MOTU
                   in 1/10 the time
04:12 Amaranth     MagicFab: It's easier to show MOTU work.
04:12 Kamion       MagicFab: it's not so much second-class as much harder to "measure"
04:12 MagicFab     And, well, without advocacy what would we do ?
04:12 mako         MagicFab: that's not true
04:12 jsgotangco   MagicFab, that ain't true...
04:12 Seveas       kamion +1
=== jsgotangco is more of advocate rather than developer
04:13 ogra         MagicFab, you cant become MOTU without being member
04:13 mako         i can think of a dozen members off of my top of my head who have pure advocacy
04:13 jjesse       MagicFab: it took me 4 or 5 tries to be a member
04:13 mako         probably 50% are pure advocacy memberships (even if they do other things)
04:13 MagicFab     Well, it's not encouraging any advocacy work to just say "it's harder" - I mentioned in the last CC there needed to be
                   more info for this kind of contributing
04:13 ogra         MagicFab, but indeed its easier to document a handfull of bugs you solved than social work
04:13 smurf        MagicFab: you forget that MOTU work is not visible most of the time -- all the hours of hacking on your box to find
                   those damn bugs ...
04:14 jsgotangco   ogra, true the social work really needs to be visible...
04:14 ogra         yup
04:14 mako         MagicFab: we talked about creating guidelines in a conference call after the next meeting
04:14 ogra         and bugs are in bugzilla already
04:14 Kamion       s/next/last/
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04:14 MagicFab     ogra: I'd like to work on that too -
04:14 ogra         great :)
=== akurashy [n=David@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:15 jsgotangco   jjesse, only because you don't go to meetings often before =)
04:15 mako         MagicFab: you're not beiing rejected and you shouldn't feel that way
04:15 teroedni     :)
04:15 jjesse       jsgotangco: grin :)
04:15 MagicFab     smurf: will setup a CVS for my UBuntu mentions all day :)
04:15 mako         we ask everyone for 2 full months of sustained, significant, and  visible contributions
04:15 MagicFab     mako : I don't  ;) I feel like my membership process is testing some new ground
04:15 mako         frequently, the visible the hard part :)
04:15 jsgotangco   growing pains
04:16 Seveas       MagicFab, it is
04:16 bhuvan       MagicFab, you must not take it that way
04:16 MagicFab     mako: ONE month
04:16 MagicFab
04:16 zakame       jsgotangco: here here! :D
04:16 MagicFab     or two depending on sources - that's what I mean
04:17 MagicFab     anyways, I
04:17 mako         MagicFab: we're probably going to change that :)
04:17 MagicFab     will get involved in the NewMember stuff, hope to learn more from there
04:17 Seveas       MagicFab, cool, glad you don't feel rejected
04:17 bhuvan       MagicFab, good
04:18 mako         MagicFab: where does it say one month?
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04:18 Seveas       mako, you have said that before, so I put that on the what-to-do-if-you-want-to-be-a-member page
04:18 mako         MagicFab: also, that is a wikipage, not an official process page
04:18 zakame       MagicFab: go rock the advocacy :D
04:18 Kamion       MagicFab: the mention of a month there is about people who never show up for discussion
04:18 mako         Seveas: cool
04:18 mhz          MagicFab: how old is tha include you made and shared with me ?
04:19 mako         alright, lets go on
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04:19 Seveas       LaserJock,
04:19 Seveas       (JordanMantha)
04:19 Seveas       give us the 3-line intro please
04:19 LaserJock    wiki:
04:19 LaserJock    LP:
                   I am a 4th year PhD student in Physical Chemistry at the University of Nevada, Reno. I have been using Ubuntu since
04:19 LaserJock    the Hoary Array CDs. I use it at work for data collection and analysis (as well as packaging on the side ;-) ) I've
                   been helping out the MOTU since a few weeks before the Breezy release. I try to do whatever I can to help.
04:19 LaserJock    Basically, I try to focus on scientific package since I feel the need for that. For Breezy I worked on unmet deps and
                   FTBFS as much as I could while learning to package.
04:19 LaserJock    I have done some merges and worked on some bugs. I also started a MOTUScience team and a working on an Ubuntu
                   Packaging Guide for the doc-team.
04:20 bhuvan       LaserJock have been doing good job on packaging guide for quite some time
04:20 jsgotangco   yay
04:20 Seveas       ok, MOTU people, we need advocates :)
04:20 MagicFab     Kamion: I'll dig it - the point is the process is CONFUSING and excluding advocacy because "it's hard to measure".
                   I'll try harder to measure it, so should you
04:20 jjesse       LaserJock: is working hard on the doc team
04:20 Amaranth     LaserJock: ever get any feedback upstream on the science category?
04:20 ogra         and at the MOTUs
04:20 LaserJock    Amaranth: don't think so yet
04:21 LaserJock    Amaranth: I will keep track of it though
04:21 Amaranth     LaserJock: if not snag the icon from the bug and see if seb128 will do it as a patch for now
04:21 crimsun      I worked with Jordan prior to Breezy's release; a couple of his changes are in Breezy
04:21 Kyral        LaserJock: I think the only thing we got back was the email tag about FlowDesigner
04:21 ogra         he's around for quite some time already and did a lot of merges i'd consider myself as rather advanced tasks
04:21 crimsun      I've also uploaded a host of his merge work for Dapper
04:21 dholbach     i was very happy to see LaserJock start the motuscience team and start working on organising the MOTU part of the wiki
=== chmj [] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
04:21 Seveas       ok, the cheerleaders are happy :)
04:21 Amaranth     aye
04:21 jsgotangco   yeahh
04:22 Kamion       MagicFab: yeah, it's something we talked about on the phone the other week and will be trying to improve
04:22 MagicFab     crimsun: for how long ;)
04:22 zakame       go go go LaserJock :)
04:22 seb128       Amaranth: what?
04:22 crimsun      MagicFab: a bit longer than two months
04:22 Seveas       LaserJocks wikipage looks ok, syncing is a good job :)
04:23 ogra         and wxwidgets is an evil package to start with, kudos ...
04:23 bhuvan       LaserJock, you should have included your doc patches in your wiki
04:23 Seveas       :)
04:24 LaserJock    ogra: yeah, I didn't know what I was getting into
04:24 ogra         hehe
04:24 ogra         but you did it :)
04:24 Seveas       LaserJock, to boldly merge what no one ever merged before
04:24 Kamion       prior to breezy's release => nearly more than two months already
04:24 LaserJock    Seveas: lol, ignorance instead of boldness maybe
04:25 Seveas       LaserJock, well you pulled it off
04:25 Seveas       that's a big +
04:25 \sh          laserjock for membership? I'm happy to see him as member and later on as motu :)
=== Bonzodog [n=Bonzodog@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:25 LaserJock    \sh: eventually. one step at a time
04:25 Seveas       the crowd is happy, but what about the CC?
04:25 mako         there's certainly a lot of work h ere
04:26 jsgotangco   solid work really
04:26 Kamion       there are uploads from LaserJock going back to September, anyway
04:26 \sh          LaserJock: no excuses no running away :)
=== ogra remembers that mako can speak from a MOTU POV too now :)
04:26 dholbach     haha
=== dholbach hugs mako :)
=== ogra hugs mako too
04:26 mako         airght
04:26 bhuvan       dholbach you hug frequently :)
04:27 \sh          oh yes...mako...welcome to MOTU :) we're waiting for your merges ;9
04:27 raphink      :)
04:27 mako         LaserJock sounds fine with me
04:27 ogra         bhuvan, he's a true hugger
04:27 Kamion       I'm very happy to see somebody taking up a bunch of science applications, and am happy with LaserJock for membership
04:27 elmo         ack from me too
04:27 Seveas       LaserJock, congratz!
04:28 dholbach     congratulations, LaserJock
04:28 jsgotangco   cheers
04:28 LaserJock    thanks CC, thanks all you supporters
04:28 Seveas       welcome to the Ubuntumember boat
04:28 \sh          LaserJock: welcome aboard :)
04:28 Kamion       LaserJock: a lot of seems like it would fit under the banner of
                   developer-documentation (discussed at UBZ; conclusion was to make a small branch of the Debian Developer's Reference)
=== LaserJock hugs everybody
04:28 ogra         yay for LaserJock
04:28 Seveas       Next up: Kyral (Chris Peterman)
04:28 zakame       yay LaserJock :D
04:28 Kyral        Wiki:
04:28 Kamion       it might be worthwhile looking at that rather than duplicating several years of work in Debian
04:28 LaserJock    Kamion: I talked to Diziet about that. He thought it was ok
04:28 Kamion       ok ...
04:28 LaserJock    Kamion: I will keep in touch with him though
04:29 Kamion       thanks
04:29 Seveas       Kyral has been quite active in #ubuntu
=== ogra waits for the three liner intor
04:29 ogra         *intro
                   Greetings. I am currently a second year CS Major at Clarkson University. Currently I am helping out mostly on the
04:30 Kyral        Forums, but I have also recently been helping out LaserJock with MOTUScience. I have also started a small LocoTeam
                   between Clarkson University and SUNY Potsdam. Currently running Dapper on both my Desktop on Laptop
04:30 Seveas       that's line one :)
04:30 Seveas       what are your plans for Ubuntu activity?
04:31 \sh          he forgot to tell us that he was the first pupil in ubuntus motu school :)
04:31 mhz          LaserJock: yahooo!
04:31 MagicFab     for how long ?
04:31 Kyral        Yah, I got jumped by 4 MOTUs last Wednesday
04:31 ogra         \sh, did he behave while you were teaching him ? :)
04:31 raphink      lol
04:31 Seveas       IRC activity dates back quite some time
04:32 \sh          ogra: well...yes..but he forgot his homework :)
04:32 Kyral        RIght now I have finals coming up so Ubuntu is kinda on the backburner
04:32 Kyral        However in-between semesters I will pick up on my activity again, hopefully finishing FlowDesigner's patches
=== ogra thinks he remembers Kyral from #ubuntu when he was active there himself ...
04:33 Kyral        In addition I have signed up to write the Install Guide for the DocTeam and I plan to help LaserJock with the
                   packaging Guide
04:33 mako         when was this?
04:33 Seveas       ogra, correct
04:33 ogra         mako, way ago ...
04:33 Kyral        mako: When was what?
04:33 Seveas       My logs only date back to sept 23 and he was active then
04:33 Amaranth     oh crap, finals
=== Amaranth goes to study
04:33 ogra         i think i stopped being highly active there during my work on hwdb
04:33 Seveas       but i'm pretty sure i've seen him far before that too
04:34 MagicFab     Kyral, can you tell us since when you consider you have contributing to Ubuntu ?
04:34 ogra         so mid hoary ...
04:34 Kyral        My Forums registration date is about May
04:34 Kyral        I believe
=== ogra notes that he starts to measure time in ubuntu releases ... is that worrying ?
04:35 Nafallo      ogra: totally the way to go :-)
04:35 Seveas       Join Date: 05-19-2005
04:35 Seveas       Posts
04:35 Seveas       Total Posts: 1,650 (8.21 posts per day)
04:35 Seveas       (kyral @ forums)
04:35 ogra         hehe
04:35 jsgotangco   ogra, tsk tsk....
04:35 LaserJock    ogra: better than Debian releases ;-)
04:35 ogra         loool
04:35 jsgotangco   hahaha
04:35 raphink      lol
04:35 Kyral        Most of my work has been in the Forums Community, specializing in the Desktop Support and Absolute Beginners Talk
                   forums. I have written two helper threads for the ABT Forum, Terminal For Beginners and Window Managers for Beginners
04:36 zakame       hehe
04:36 Seveas       I'd be happy with Kyral as member given his support work on IRC and the forums
04:36 MagicFab     So that's easy to measure. Forum posts.
04:36 kjcole       ogra: Sounds like the Zork Flathead calendar... warty, hoary, breezy...
04:36 Kyral        I recently helped Brunellus write the Fluxbox wiki page
04:36 mako         hmm.. impressive inregards to the forums.. and a quick glance over implies good qualiity
=== mako is happy with membership
04:36 Kamion       MagicFab: I'm not personally convinced by post count as a measure of contribution though
=== mhz has read those 'helper threads', very illustrative
04:36 mako         Kamion: yes
04:36 jsgotangco   MagicFab, quantity doesnt count
04:37 MagicFab     Kyral: what % of your contributions would you say are advocacy andor business related
04:37 mako         Kamion: i always spot check
04:37 LaserJock    Kyral has been lots of help with MOTUScience, he has 2 science package on REVU right now and he is always eager to
04:37 Kyral        I have also helped people on campus install Ubuntu
=== mhz also read the Fluxbox wiki page and even subscribed. That was a very KISS page
04:37 Kyral        MagicFab: I don't do business, I'm just a simple CS Major
04:37 MagicFab     jsgotangco: well then don't, I just said it's easy to measure, never mentioned quality (tx. mhz)
04:38 Kyral        They are very happy with it and were surprised that it was that easy
04:38 MagicFab     Kyral: advocacy ?
04:38 crimsun      Chris has been active in #ubuntu for 3+ months. I'm fairly active in that channel.
04:38 Kamion       the referenced pieces of documentation seem to be pretty clear documentation for beginners, to me
04:38 Kamion       MagicFab: it's not particularly easy to measure, although it is at least visible so we have something to go to
04:39 Kyral        Next semester in combination with the rest of the PNYTeam I hope to deploy Edubuntu into the Potsdam NY school
04:39 ogra         crimsun, sure thats not been longer (much longer ?)
04:39 Kamion       (well, the *useful* thing isn't easy to measure :-))
04:39 nalioth      Kyral does help out quite a bit on IRC, and has for some time
04:39 ogra         yay
04:39 ogra         ++ for edubuntu promotion
04:39 crimsun      ogra: I'm fairly sure it's at the very least 3 months
04:39 Kyral        But that one is still up in the air as I have to go through one of my professors who has the contacts in the district
04:39 crimsun      s/fairly//
04:40 mhz          Kyral: educool!
04:40 mhz          :)
04:40 Kyral        But an InstallFest is VERY Likely
04:40 Seveas       crimsun, that's the very least, it's been 4 months more :)
=== kiko-fud [] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Left]
04:40 mhz          Kyral: i hope you join #edubuntu after meeting
04:40 Kamion       I'm happy with Kyral for membership after checking up on some of the references
=== mako nods
04:41 Kyral        mhz: After the meeting I need to go to class :D
04:41 mhz          Kyral: okis, then as soon as you can :)
04:41 ogra         mhz, he sometimes is there ...
04:41 mhz          indeed
04:41 mako         alright, i'm running short on time here
04:41 Seveas       ok, next up raphink
04:41 Kyral        Actually I am too
04:41 raphink      ok
04:41 Seveas       if elmo has voted
04:41 raphink      (WikiPage : ; Launchpad : )
04:41 Seveas       so not yet :)
04:41 raphink      I'm a 23-year-old french guy, formerly studying aeronautical engineering. I'm involved in packaging for Ubuntu, and a
                   MOTU Wanabee, having already been granted the right to review on the REVU system.
04:41 raphink      My first contact with Ubuntu was with Warty on PPC, although I mostly used Debian Sid during the last year, before
                   switching to Kubuntu with Breezy.
04:41 raphink      I spend a lot of time on IRC helping on #kubuntu, #ubuntu, #kubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-fr channels and more, since about
                   mid-. I also contributed a bit to bug fixes and translations on Rosetta.
04:42 raphink      huhu
04:42 elmo         ack for kyral
04:42 raphink      sorry
04:42 Seveas       elmo, cool
04:42 ogra         welcome Kyral
04:42 Seveas       Kyral, welcome!
=== Kyral smiles
04:42 Kyral        now, if you will excuse me, I have to run to class :D
04:42 kjcole       Kyral: Congrats
04:42 ogra         go to class ....
04:42 raphink      :)
04:42 raphink      s/mid-/mid-october/
04:43 Kamion       Kyral: BTW not entirely sure about your strategy for debugging the build-essential/PLF thing - apt-get -o
                   Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true is often a lot quicker
04:43 mhz          Kyral: wlecome edubuntero :D
04:43 mako         where is your lp page?
04:43 Seveas
04:43 Kyral        mine?
04:43 mako         no
04:43 raphink      mine is where Seveas just pointed ;)
04:44 raphink      (although I have posted it in my "3-line-intro" too)
04:44 mako         sorry, misseed it
04:44 dholbach     one thing i can say about raphink is that i was impressed that he reviewed packages on REVU and mailed the
                   contributors (although he was no motu yet)... i talked to siretart, to give raphink comment-rights in revu.
04:44 raphink      shall I post again?
04:45 Seveas       raphink, no
04:45 ogra         raphink, we can scroll
04:45 mako         no no,it's fine
04:45 raphink      ok :)
04:45 ogra         dholbach++
04:45 Seveas       raphink, is indeed helpful for REVU
04:45 MagicFab     raphink: since when ?
04:45 mako         have long have you been doing the revue work?
04:46 raphink      MagicFab: since very recently if that makes you feel comfortable ;)
04:46 raphink      mako: I have been granted the review rights only a few days ago
04:46 mako         right
04:46 raphink      I have had packages on REVU since about 20 days i'd say
04:46 MagicFab     raphink: just logging stuff ;)
04:46 Seveas       raphink, that's a bit too short I'm afraid
04:46 raphink      and began to be active on IRC in mid-october
04:46 MagicFab     raphink: also checking if I should go MOTU
04:46 mako         ok, i'd prefer a little longer term contributions in there areas personally
04:46 MagicFab     ;)
04:47 raphink      Seveas: I reckon it's recent contributinos
04:47 mako         not much, 1-2 more meetings worth
04:47 Seveas       raphink, see you in 2006 ;)
04:47 jsgotangco   LOL
=== mako shrugs
04:47 mako         that's not the law
04:47 raphink      hehe
04:47 mako         that's just my gut feelingg right now
=== MagicFab has to run
04:47 Kamion       yeah, I'd tend to go with mako, although what I see so far is good
04:47 Seveas       mako, but I do agree with it
04:47 mako         if Kamion or elmo disagrees, that's fine too
04:47 raphink      bye MagicFab
04:48 mako         alright guys
=== juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:48 mako         i'm coming up on a hard end to my time here
04:48 Seveas       he's done good work, so in a few weeks he'll fly by
04:48 juliux       hi all
=== mako nods
04:48 raphink      hi juliux
04:48 Seveas       there's 3 more to go
04:48 ogra         so speed up ...
04:48 MagicFab     I'd like this question to be asked to all members: since when have you been contributing. Just want to understand this
                   better. Will review the logs.
04:48 raphink      there's just the fact that it's a funny situation to be granted review rights without being a member, but if that's
                   alright ;)
=== ogra fears the yellow mako
04:49 mako         i have 9 more minutes
04:49 Seveas       ok, next up kjcole
04:49 Seveas       3 line intro please
=== MagicFab gotta go - cheers to all
04:49 kjcole       Summary:
04:49 Seveas       cya MagicFab
=== MagicFab is now known as MagicFab_away
                   I'm a co-author for the Edubuntu Cookbook (WIP), and working at a university exclusively for deaf students, am
04:49 kjcole       involved with the Accessibility Team (and trying to involve students and faculty here). I've contributed several bug
                   reports on Launchpad. Last May, I helped run an InstallFest with Ubuntu as the distro of choice. I helped run a local
                   Software Freedom Day event. I'm now the Washington, DC LoCo Team leader/contact (replacing Paul Flint
04:49 kjcole       s switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I also worked on's wiki at UBZ.
04:50 Seveas       kjcole, sounds cool
04:50 hno73        I can confirm that kjcole has been doing good work on the Accessibility Team
04:50 kjcole       (And, and since those questions come up a lot
04:50 ogra         kjcole, is a active edubuntu contributor ....
04:50 Kamion       first line cut off at "(replacing Paul Flint"
04:50 jsgotangco   same here
04:50 Seveas       your wikipage is a bit incomplete it seems
04:51 mako         well, it's not bad, but it's doesn't represent all that you've contributed :0
04:51 jsgotangco   he's relatively new but he's been focused on stuff
04:51 kjcole       int). We've gotten some local businesses switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I
                   also worked on's wiki at UBZ.
04:51 mako         there are some quite significant pieces of docs in there
04:52 ogra         the edubuntu cookbook is *very* significant
04:52 Seveas       the freenx howto is a bit redundant :)
=== mhz has seen a lot kjcole around interacting in IRC and AT
04:52 jsgotangco   ogra, where is it located at this time btw?
04:52 ogra         jsgotangco, you should know :P
04:52 jsgotangco   ogra, oh right...yes...
04:52 ogra         heh
04:52 kjcole       ogra: Elkner and I have set up weekly meetings to work on the Cookbook.  Making good progress.
04:53 ogra         cool
04:53 mako         kjcole: very excellent
04:53 mako         any testimonials?
04:53 ogra         i'd like to look over it for the tech POV ... but that doesnt belong here
04:53 jsgotangco   well he did took over the cookbook from me....
04:53 jsgotangco   (when i started with my new job)
04:54 mhz          mako: kjcole has been very commited to edubuntu
04:54 ogra         he was very active in the ltsp BOFs at montreal
=== mako nods
04:55 jsgotangco   his experience with AT has been helping the newly formed AT team
=== mako is happy with kjcole as a member for the documentation work alone
04:55 mako         it's impressive
04:55 hno73        he makes good contributions in discussions on accessibility
04:55 mako         oh, and acccessibility
04:55 mhz          we need kjcole
04:55 Kamion       mm, right, sorry I've been quiet, I've been lost in the huge pile of documentation ;-)
04:55 mhz          hehehehe
04:55 Seveas       Kamion, that's a good sign :)
04:56 mako         alright guys, 3 minutes for me
04:56 ogra         vote !!
04:56 Seveas       Kamion, elmo any verdict on kjcole ?
04:56 Kamion       yeah, I'm happy
04:56 Seveas       cool, that's 2
04:56 ogra         elmo ?
04:57 elmo         ack
04:57 Kamion       NEXT
04:57 Kamion       Steve Kowalik
04:57 Seveas       cool, welcome kjcole
04:57 StevenK      Wiki:
04:57 ogra         welcome kjcole
04:57 Seveas       StevenK,
                   I'm 24 years old, and have been a Debian developer since August of 2001. I have done 12 or so merges of universe
04:57 StevenK      packages, and have been helping on #ubuntu-motu with technical questions as well. My immediate plans for Ubuntu
                   include becoming an MOTU to help with the merge until the UVF, and fixing up xemacs, since at the moment, its a little
                   broken, and unusable for my purposes.
=== mako is familiar with steve's work from debian
04:57 kjcole       Thanks.  When can I expect the secret decoder ring and X-ray vision glasses in the mail? ;-)
04:57 ogra         dholbach, asked me for:
04:57 Seveas       StevenK, just a note: you don't have to be a motu to help
04:57 ogra         <dholbach> I was very glad to see StevenK 1) learning the different workflows in the motu team so quickly and 2)
                   helping other MOTU hopefuls, since he knew part of the story as a DD already"
04:58 StevenK      Seveas: Of course not.
04:58 Kamion       kjcole: could you propose yourself for the ubuntumembers team in LP please?
04:58 mhz          kjcole: edubuntu people rock!
04:58 mako         StevenK: how long have you been hanging around these parts?
04:58 StevenK      mako: Not long enough? :-)
04:58 ogra         Seveas, see the dholbach quote
04:58 ogra         2) especially
04:58 StevenK      mako: It hasn't been long. A few weeks is rough guess.
04:59 mako         StevenK: cool, lets put this off for a couple more then if that's alright
04:59 mako         StevenK: cool to see you around here :)
04:59 StevenK      Couple more weeks, or meetings?
04:59 Seveas       twice as many weeks as meeting :)
04:59 Seveas       but i'd say 2 meeting should do
05:00 mako         probably a couple meetings to be fair
05:00 raphink      that seems mathematically correct Seveas ;)
05:00 Kamion       shrug, I don't have a problem either way since Steve's been doing lots of Debian work for ages (and thereby
                   effectively contributing to Ubuntu if you want to look at it that way)
=== mako nods
05:00 ogra         Kamion++
05:00 Kamion       but if we want to defer for fairness to other folks, that's fine too
05:00 mako         we have said we'd taken debian work as a form of indirect contribution
05:00 mhz          Kamion: very important point
05:01 ogra         elmo, any opinion ?
=== mako has not objections to steve either
05:01 Kamion       the only caveat to the above is making sure people know the ropes and are happy to stay around
05:01 elmo         I don't mind either
05:01 Kamion       (trying to avoid Debian's problem of lots of inactive people, really)
05:02 Kamion       Steve's been in Debian for years though so I figure he has some degree of staying power
05:02 ogra         was that a vote ?
05:02 mako         StevenK: does that sound OK?
05:02 StevenK      Um, there was a conclusion reached?
05:02 mako         StevenK: you gonna stay around?
05:02 Kamion       that was the least conclusive vote EVAH
05:02 Seveas       :)
05:02 mako         StevenK: feel like you know the ropes?
05:03 StevenK      mako: I'm planning on sticking around, anyway.
05:03 mako         StevenK: if you're alright committing now, i think we're happy approving you for membership
05:03 StevenK      mako: I'm getting there quickly.
05:03 mako         cool
05:03 ogra         mako, he helps and teaches MOTU hopefulls, seems he knows the ropes
05:03 mako         killer
05:03 mako         alright,
05:03 mako         i am overdue alright
05:03 Kamion       right, StevenK++ since we know and trust him from elsewhere
05:03 mako         was ther eone more
05:03 Seveas       yes, zyga
05:03 Kamion       azeem was the last
05:03 zyga         hi
05:03 StevenK      Hell, I wrote a package checker. That implies I know packaging. :-)
05:03 Kamion       oh, zyga
05:03 mako         two more than!
05:03 zyga         Zygmunt Krynicki 23, freelance programmer
05:03 mako         StevenK: i'm familiarr with it
05:04 Kamion       elmo: I'll take "I don't mind either" as a yes
05:04 zyga         I've been here befor a month ago, since then I've been active in -desktop team
05:04 StevenK      Thanks for the approval, though.
05:04 ogra         so may we say welcome StevenK ?
05:04 ogra         :)
05:04 elmo         Kamion: ok ;)
=== bhuvan [n=bhuvan@] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
05:04 ogra         yeah
05:04 zyga         I've got an (almost) fully impolemented spec, for command-not-found, together with mvo's help
05:04 Seveas       welcome StevenK then :)
05:04 mhz          StevenK: welcome!
05:04 mako         alright guys, im two hours late to work already
05:04 StevenK      Thanks!
05:04 mako         i am going to run
05:04 Seveas       mako, :(
05:04 StevenK      I might run, too.
05:04 zyga         I'm also working with pitti on .desktop files (mainly patches to code on my side)
05:05 Kamion       mako: seeya
05:05 StevenK      Considering it's 3am.
05:05 Seveas       mako, have fun at work, seeya next time
05:05 zyga         I've been active on the translation arena
05:05 mako         please go ahead
05:05 zyga         as well as local ( arena
05:05 Kamion       ok, sorry everyone, but we just became inquorate - we can go through people and mako can catch up later to complete
05:05 zyga         I still need to devote more time for motu ruby
05:05 Seveas       mako, I'll e-mail you the relevant log
05:05 Seveas       (for zyga/azeem)
05:05 mako         if you guys come to consensus, i give mhz permission to install a bot to pester me ever 5 minutes until i answer one
                   way or another
05:05 zyga         I guess that's it, the rest is on my profile page
05:06 kjcole       As it is 11:00 AM, and I'm theoretically working for my office... I'm outa here.  Thanks again.  TTYL.
=== StevenK [] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Sleeeeep!"]
05:06 zyga         I'm happy to answer any questions you may have
05:06 Kamion       mvo: around?
05:06 ogra         ciao kjcole
05:06 azeem        we can just defer me to the next meeting, no problem
05:06 mvo          Kamion: yes
05:06 Seveas       azeem, rock
05:06 mhz          mako: mean me or mdz?
05:06 Kamion       mvo: opinions on zyga?
05:06 mako-pumpkin mhz: you
05:06 mako-pumpkin later
05:06 mhz          bye
05:06 Seveas       .desktop + gettext sounds cool
05:07 mvo          I'm happy with zyga contribution, he did a lot of good work on cmd-not-found spec
05:07 mvo          +1 from me on membership
05:07 ogra         he pushes me to inally make hwdb gettextable, so ++ from here ...
05:07 ogra         *finally
05:07 zyga         oh right :)
05:07 zyga         I need to send you that :)
05:07 mvo          very active on various fronts :)
05:07 zyga         I keep forgetting ;P
05:08 ogra         me too, me too
05:08 ogra         :)
05:08 zyga         oh no actually, you need that bzr branch, right?
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:08 ogra         yup
05:08 zyga         k
05:08 ogra         but its on my todo for this week
05:08 ogra         (officially)
05:09 Kamion       Scope
05:09 Kamion       This idea touches nearly every single package from universe and some packages in main.
05:09 Kamion       ^-- concerning ...
05:09 Kamion       (we generally try REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to avoid touching the whole of universe for anything at all)
05:10 zyga         Kamion: that's for the future :-)
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:10 pitti        Hi
05:10 zakame       hi pitti
05:10 Kamion       zyga: just logging something I perceive as insanity now rather than later :)
05:10 zyga         Kamion: it might be implemented for dapper+1 as a test run. I won't have enough time to finish it before
05:10 Kamion       but you seem to be contributing all over the place anyway and you've been around for some time, so I have no problem
                   saying yes
05:10 zyga         Kamion: and it needs some good understanding of how updated langpacks work out
05:11 pitti        zyga> So far I worked with Zygmunt with translation-related things; we discussed some improvements and some ideas
                   about enhancing langpacks/rosetta
05:11 pitti        and I was really impressed by his work for LangpacksLocales
05:11 pitti        he provided patches, tests, etc.
05:11 pitti        I would be glad to see him as a member
05:12 Kamion       ok, works for me, thanks
05:12 Kamion       elmo?
05:12 elmo         yeah, ack
05:12 pitti        (sorry for being late; I'm still not used to the rotation)
05:12 Kamion       pitti: you and me both, I think it's more shuffling than rotation
05:12 Seveas       cool, mhz, start the mako-ping-bot ;)
05:12 mhz          hehehehe
05:12 Kamion       Michael Banck
05:13 Seveas       Kamion, which brings us to the last item
05:13 Kamion       another long-time Debian guy
05:13 Seveas       azeem didn't mind being defered
05:13 zyga         Yah
05:13 Kamion       ok, that would be simpler
=== zyga lost one line and was kept waiting for something already there :)
05:13 Seveas       so next is scheduling
05:13 zyga         thanks
05:13 jsgotangco   i gotta sleep cacth you guys later
05:13 Seveas       I received a total of zero seggestions on a new CC schedule
05:13 pitti        congrats, zyga, and welcome
05:14 zyga         thanks :))
05:14 Seveas       which is a bit less than expected :)
05:14 Kamion       Seveas: and again we've missed mako, d'oh
05:14 Seveas       Kamion, shall I just do this via E-mail for the next meeting and pester people to reply?
05:14 Kamion       personally I have no idea what mako's schedule is nowadays (since he isn't working for Canonical any more)
05:14 elmo         we should set up a list, and organize it by email
05:14 ogra         lets do the scheduling at the beginning next time, so he can intervene
05:14 Kamion       Seveas: I think mailing the four of us would be moderately useful, yes, and what elmo said about a list
05:15 Kamion       shall I poke jdub about that?
05:15 elmo         nah, mail RT
05:15 elmo         I can do that these days
05:15 Kamion       'k
05:15 Seveas       ubuntu-cc@lists I guess?
05:15 Seveas       or cummonity-council@lists
=== Kamion was thinking community-council@ or ubuntu-council@
05:15 Seveas       well, with the o and u swapped
05:16 Seveas       I'd prefer community-council@
05:16 elmo         I don't much care; I'll create whichever I'm told
05:16 Seveas       hehe
05:16 elmo         but anyway, since we can't organize the schedule now - is there anything else?
05:16 Seveas       no
=== Seveas hands elmo the hammer
05:17 mhz          Seveas: was mako serious on the botting issue?
05:17 elmo         Kamion: good on your side?
05:17 elmo         mhz: no
05:17 mhz          cool
=== mhz can really be a pian in the neck if asked to :D
05:17 Seveas       :)
05:17 Kamion       oh, should community-council@ be publicly archived?
05:17 Seveas       I'd say yes
05:17 Kamion       personally I'm thinking not because we do sometimes need the facility for private discussion
05:18 elmo         Kamion: I'd guess not - anything substantive that's public should be done in a more public forum
05:18 Seveas       will it be 'open for the public' to subscribe?
05:18 Kamion       Seveas: no
05:18 Kamion       it's more along the lines of a contact address
05:18 Seveas       only the 4 of you?
05:18 Kamion       right
05:18 Kamion       it should be possible for people to mail "the community council"
=== mhz wanted to have over 1000 mails
05:19 Seveas       ok, then I'll mention it as a contact address in the report
05:19 ogra         mhz, you dont want that ...
05:19 mhz          hehehe
05:19 ogra         there are days in have twice as much ...
05:19 mhz          ogra: I love to 'delte' emais from inbox
05:19 mhz          :D
05:19 Kamion       and it should probably be possible for people to mail it with roughly the same expectation of privacy as they have
                   from mailing a person (i.e. some)
05:19 ogra         (normally its aroud 3-400)
05:19 Seveas       Kamion, can I/ogra/dholbach/smurf as active CC-meeting-followers subscribe or is it strictly the four of you?
05:20 elmo         Seveas: it's a contact address for the CC
05:20 Kamion       elmo: RTed
05:20 elmo         so it should be limited to the CC
05:20 Seveas       ok
05:20 elmo         IMO
05:20 elmo         Kamion: thanks
05:21 Kamion       Seveas: as elmo says, wider discussion can be held on other fora (e.g. sounder@) or people can be cc'ed for input on
                   specific issues
05:21 jsgotangco   sounder is good
05:21 Seveas       OK, then that'll be all I guess
05:21 Seveas       I'm going to make and eat dinner and then write the summary for {devel,sounder,cc,fridge}
05:21 Kamion       I don't mean to be exclusionary here, I don't expect there will be lots of stuff there, but a contact address is
                   getting increasingly required
05:22 Kamion       and in cases of dispute resolution other people may very well want it to be limited-circulation
05:22 Kamion       ok, I think we're done, thanks all
05:22 robotgeek    later
05:22 Seveas       later all
05:23 zakame       yay
05:23 Seveas       2 weeks from now, at a time to be discussed :)

MeetingLogs/CC_2005-12-06 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:21:06 by localhost)