CC_2005-12-06
03:01 raphink hello everybody :)
03:01 Kyral I'm here
03:02 kiko hey there
=== kjcole is Kevin Cole
03:02 LaserJock here
03:02 raphink Seveas: hehe i'm here :)
03:02 Seveas mhz, smurf
03:02 Seveas *ping* too
=== smurf is here ;-)
=== mhz is here
03:02 Seveas We'll have to wait for the CC members to show up
03:03 mhz in the meantime, Greeting Ubunteros :)
03:03 kiko greetings
03:03 Seveas hi
03:03 MarioMeyer_ hi :P
03:03 Madpilot morning, everyone
=== Kamion reaches for the list of phone number
03:03 Kamion s
03:03 robotgeek morning...coffee time
03:04 StevenK Speaking of morning, it's neatly 1am here. :-/
03:04 Seveas Kamion, aren't they on speed dial yet? :)
03:04 mhz StevenK: thx for being here, then
03:04 ogra Kamion, sabdfl just mailed me, he seems awake and in reach of a PC
03:04 Madpilot 0600 here :(
03:04 kjcole No rest for the wicked.
=== Kyral reaches for caffine
03:04 LaserJock Madpilot: me too
03:04 ogra but i bet he forgot about the early time today
03:04 MagicFab I invited Corey Burger and Daniel RObitaille but it's 6AM for them :(
03:04 mhz Madpilot: very early, thx
03:04 Kamion elmo's coming
03:05 StevenK mhz: I went to bed early, and my wife woke me at 0000
03:05 mhz MagicFab: i'm glad you're here
03:05 jsgotangco hehe
03:05 kjcole New Ubunutu project: Tivo for #ubuntu-meetings. (Better than log files.) ;-)
03:05 Seveas it's conveniently 15:00 here :)
03:05 mhz StevenK: hehehe, that happens all the time if you have kids too
=== jsgotangco is babysitting at the moment
03:05 elmo ok, here
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:05 Seveas hi elmo
03:06 \sh morning gentlemen
03:06 Kamion elmo: do you know where Mark is at the moment?
03:06 raphink hi \sh
03:06 mhz morning \sh
03:06 elmo somewhere in the US
03:06 elmo he probably won't be up for a couple of hours
03:06 zakame hi mhz :D
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:07 mhz zakame: helloz
03:07 kjcole Hullo, all.
03:07 elmo unless we snagged mako, quorum might be hard
03:07 Kamion apparently he just sent e-mail, I'll try his mobile
03:07 mhz kjcole: is your page updated
03:07 zakame elmo: thanks for adding me to the keyring today :-)
03:07 zakame evening \sh :)
03:07 Kamion sabdfl is being summoned
03:08 Seveas hehe
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:08 Seveas hi jbailey
03:08 kjcole mhz: Not recently...
03:08 mhz kjcole: well, it looked good to me :)
03:08 jbailey Seveas: hi
03:09 jsgotangco summoning powers
=== mhz plays Magic, the Gathering, and plays 9 lands to summon sabdfl
03:10 Kyral hehe
03:10 zakame mhz: wow
03:11 dholbach mhz: dunno, if 9 are enough, you might have to tap all your artifacts too
03:11 mhz lol!
03:11 Kyral dangit dholbach beat me to it :D
=== StevenK ponders something to eat.
=== Seveas casts a fireball and burns all Magic cards
=== zakame hasn't played Magic for a looong time :(
03:11 Kamion s/summoned/hunted/ apparently
03:11 mhz Seveas: boooh, you killed out entertainment
=== Madpilot ponders caffeine
03:11 mhz :)
03:11 jsgotangco good luck on summoning sabdfl in th snow
03:11 jsgotangco heh
=== dholbach neither... like 7-8 years
=== Kyral plays a Moment's Peace and blocks the fireball
03:11 Kamion can we sort out meeting times in the meantime maybe?
03:11 Seveas mhz, bofh.ntk.net
03:12 Seveas hours of entertainment
03:12 Kamion although we don't have mako which makes that awkward
03:12 kjcole jsgotangco: Did he get caught in it?
03:12 Seveas http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html <-- that one i mean
03:12 mako i'm here
03:12 mhz Seveas: jsgotangco could tell us about mobile entretainment for our Sharp Zaurus, maybe?
03:12 Seveas greetings, mako
03:13 jsgotangco mako!!!!
03:13 Kamion mako: aha, we can start then
03:13 Seveas we could start now if sabdfl is evasive, let's do the naming round
=== mhz *sighs*
=== Seveas is Dennis Kaarsemaker
03:13 mako sorry i'm a bit late.. i need like 1 minute to get organized
03:13 zakame hello mako :)
=== ogra is OliverGrawert
03:13 kjcole Hi, mako. (And thanks -- I think -- for the speedy order on the CD's. Or thank whoever's responsible.)
=== MarioMeyer_ is Mario Meyer
=== dholbach is Daniel Holbach
=== \sh is Stephan Hermann
=== nalioth is Marek Spruell
03:13 kiko mako!
=== Kamion is Colin Watson
=== kjcole is Kevin Cole
=== StevenK is Steve Kowalik
=== Kyral is Chris Peterman
=== jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco
=== mhz is MauricioHernandez
=== mako is benjamin mako hill
=== Madpilot is Brian Burger
=== LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
=== kiko is ChristianReis
=== alerios [n=alerios@63.245.87.62] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== zakame is Zak Elep
=== bhuvan is Bhuvaneswaran
=== azeem is Michael Banck
=== raphink is Raphal Pinson
=== robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan
03:14 Seveas arzajac, there?
=== hno73 is Henrik Omma
03:14 Seveas ubuntugeek, there?
=== MagicFab is Fabian Rodriguez
03:14 Kamion sabdfl's on his way
03:15 zyga (everyone needs to say their name?)
03:15 Kamion the ubuntite/ubuntero thing is first on the agenda
=== smurf is Matthias Urlichs
so to alleviate confusion from those bug reports, Ubuntite/Ubuntero simply means that you've signed the code of
03:16 Kamion conduct, and conceptually it should be a prerequisite for membership/maintainership (although I'm not sure if
Launchpad actually implements that)
03:16 jsgotangco it does
03:16 Kamion I'm also not sure that it really matters that much what it's called, or why the CC needs to decide on it :-)
03:16 elmo Kamion: it doesn't
03:17 Seveas ok, but which one is the official word for person-who-signed-the-coc-and-pledged-allegiance-to-ubuntu :)
03:17 Kamion kiko: I assumed sabdfl had renamed it to Ubuntero, which would kind of make it official
03:17 Kamion did somebody explicitly ask for it to be brought up here?
03:17 Seveas yes, kiko
03:17 mako it was originally ubuntite
03:17 elmo Kamion: implement it as a prerequisite for membership, I mean. the only thing signed_CoC enforces is ubuntu.com email
03:17 Kamion Seveas: I'm asking kiko if somebody asked him
03:17 kiko well
03:17 kiko yes
03:17 kiko it's been asked on a number of occasions
03:17 mako that is what was written in the process documents
03:17 kiko we need to change the wording in Launchpad
03:17 Seveas Kamion, ah, sorry /me grabs glasses
03:18 kiko I just want to make sure that this is the definitive answer
03:18 mako but if sabdfl has very strong feelings, that's fine
03:18 Kamion it was changed from Ubuntite to Ubuntero in Launchpad
=== mako nods
03:18 mako i saw that
03:18 mako i was a little a confused..
03:18 kiko (I personally think Ubuntu member is a better name but ignore my opinions :-P)
03:18 kiko now
03:18 kiko there are places that still say Ubuntite
03:18 Seveas kiko, Ubuntero != member
03:18 ogra its pre-membership
03:18 kiko the reason this happened is because it was hacked in by a certain person
03:18 Kamion why not just stick a tooltip/link on it explaining what it means? even I think the wording is confusing
03:18 kiko okay
03:18 kiko we will
03:18 kiko however
03:19 Kamion but that's a launchpad development issue
03:19 kiko I want someone to:
03:19 kiko a) be a point of contact that will formally email launchpad@lists.canonical.com to request this sort of policy change
03:19 kiko b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the CC's fault
03:19 kiko we all know how mark is with email and requests
03:19 Kamion in this case it wasn't at all the CC's fault, but OK :-)
03:20 kiko and I want to make sure we don't drop the ball so often
03:20 mako kiko: mark made this change right?
03:20 kiko the fact that is says ubuntite and ubuntero in places makes me want to DIE
=== kiko turns his back to mako and whistles
03:20 Kamion we're kind of at the point where we need a CC mailing list
03:20 Kamion (i.e. the four of us)
03:20 ogra kiko, we really dont wnat that you want to die
03:20 kiko that is all on that topic from me :)
03:21 elmo kiko: dude, this change was made directly in launchpad with no consultation with the CC - what exactly do you expect
from us here?
03:21 kiko well
03:21 kiko I'll put it this way
03:21 mako kiko: it was *always* ubuntite and not particularly controversial AFAIK..
03:21 elmo kiko: we've got about as much chance of fixing this as you have of demanding sabdfl always add tests when he commits
03:21 mako kiko: now, the alternative is not particularly controversial either
03:21 ogra mako, until sabdfl changed it :)
03:21 mako it's just a name and i, for one, am not going to fight anyone over it
=== sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:21 ogra there he is
03:21 sabdfl morning all
03:21 Seveas there's the guilty one!
03:22 kiko lol. well, people here seem to know something about the word "ubuntero", while the first time I saw this was in a
launchpad landing. :)
03:22 sabdfl sorry to be late, didn't hear about it till breakfast
03:22 Kamion Definitive name for Ubuntero: [WWW] https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5317 (ChristianReis)
03:22 Kamion sabdfl: ^-- point on agenda
03:22 jsgotangco hehe
=== kiko looks at sabdfl
03:22 Kamion kiko: we only know it because (a) it randomly came up in random people's blogs like a year and a half ago, (b) we all
saw it in launchpad
03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> I want someone to:
03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> a) be a point of contact that will formally email launchpad@lists.canonical.com to request this sort of
policy change
03:22 Kamion 14:19 < kiko> b) make sure that email gets sent to us when a decision like that is made, even if it's not entirely the
CC's fault
03:23 mako sabdfl: it was originally ubuntite.. LP code seems to now call it ubuntero in some but not all places
03:23 kiko this is a bit confusing to me but okay. I thought the CC would deliberate on this sort of naming changes.
03:23 Kamion sabdfl: is that something the CC can/should do? obviously we can hardly stop you from making changes in launchpad :-)
03:23 Seveas Kamion, duct tape?
03:23 mako i don't think anyone is going to fight over the name
03:23 mako i'm not at least
03:23 sabdfl ok
03:23 kiko I'm not either
03:23 MagicFab Kamion: articfacts ?
03:23 kjcole I think folks who are not very far along in the process should be known as Ubunturists (Ubunt-tourists).
03:24 mako but would like consistency :)
03:24 sabdfl consistency is good :-)
03:24 zyga heh
03:24 zakame hi sabdfl :D
03:24 sabdfl i changed it in the places i knew it existed, it's a bug as ubuntite anywhere
03:24 zyga Ubuntu*ists could be exploited to many different and ackward names
03:24 sabdfl though, someone did point out there is a gender issue in some languages
03:24 Seveas sabdfl, ok, we will maill all occurences of ubuntite to you :)
03:25 mako sabdfl: in what sense?
03:25 mako sabdfl: in "ubuntero"
03:25 sabdfl Seveas: rather file bugs on LP
03:25 elmo mako: ubuntero is male?
03:25 nalioth elmo: in latin cultures, yes
03:25 mako ubuntite seems quite neutral
=== mako nods
03:25 Kamion "Ubuntu" has case issues in some languages - my general opinion is "whatever" unless I'm actively sorting out
translations
03:25 sabdfl i cant remember, but in some languages it's definitely one or the other
03:25 MarioMeyer_ ubuntite would sound female in portuguese
03:25 raphink yes ubuntero is definitely male
03:25 kjcole sabdfl, Oops. Not thinking multi-lingually. My mistake.
03:25 sabdfl ubuntite seems a little uptite
03:25 MagicFab Ubuntera would be female in spanish
=== mako likes ubuntite personally
03:26 mako bbut only because people from seattle are seattlites
03:26 sabdfl hmm... we could of course let people specify themselves
=== jsgotangco likes ubuntite too..its the original term i believe....
03:26 mako sabdfl: no :)
03:26 mako sabdfl: just choose one :)
03:26 MagicFab Ubuntero/a would mean docs in spanish would have to accomodate for both (in some places)
03:26 bhuvan +1 for ubuntite
=== smurf likes ubuntero
03:26 Kamion sabdfl: as long as there's a link to what it means in lp so that people quit asking, I really don't care
03:27 Seveas bhuvan, we're not voting :)
03:27 sabdfl Kamion: +1
03:27 Kamion and I don't think the CC should get into the bikeshed argument of which it should be
03:27 elmo I think we shouldn't underestimate the gender-bias in ubuntero
=== jsgotangco feels ubuntero sounds like a mexican folk singer in costume
=== raphink likes ubuntero but thinks the male/female issue might be a pb
03:27 elmo there's enough problems with barriers for women in IT without us adding potential new ones
03:27 \sh sabdfl: is there no female/male/to be defined sex suffix for this in zulu?
03:27 dholbach what's wrong with using "ubuntu member" and translating "member" in different languages shouldn't be hard - it doesn't
sound cool, but it "works" :)
03:27 mako i don't think gender-specific name for people who have signed the coc is a good idea
03:27 sabdfl elmo: you and your lost causes ;-)
03:27 Kamion dholbach: because it's *not* membership
03:27 kiko ubuntera/ubuntero? :-P
03:27 mako kiko: please no
03:27 raphink dholbach: ubunteros are not necessarily members yet
03:27 MagicFab UBunturist sounds great, although a bit long
03:27 sabdfl UBUNTER(A/O)
03:28 zakame jsgotangco: lol
03:28 sabdfl ubunterrorista
03:28 kiko lol
03:28 ogra eek
03:28 \sh ubunturist sounds like ubuntu terrorists
03:28 jsgotangco that's jdub
=== jsgotangco hides
03:28 bhuvan let it not be terrorist :)
03:28 dholbach haha
03:28 Kamion ok, this is what I mean about bikeshed arguments
03:28 Seveas Jdubuntu :)
=== raphink looks around if there's no CIA agent
03:28 zakame \sh: haha
03:28 mako ubuntonians
03:28 kjcole sabdfl, I think that one only applies to benevolent dictators...
03:28 zyga debianities, genotooities, fedoraxies are thankfully non-existant, I agree with dholbach's suggeston for something
simple, Kamion is right too
03:28 sabdfl ok, leave it as it is, with a link to an explanation
03:28 Seveas ok
03:28 sabdfl next?
03:28 Seveas more kiko
03:28 mako sabdfl: wait..
03:28 elmo umm
03:29 ogra as is is broken
03:29 mako the problem is that it's inconsistent
03:29 ogra we need one name
03:29 zakame yubs?
03:29 mako does leave it as it is mean "make it all ubuntero"
03:29 StevenK It's a name we have came up with. We can just declare it is gender-neutral, right?
03:29 elmo StevenK: no
03:29 sabdfl right, i was saying ubuntero is the current one, ubuntite is a bug, we can do a vote on it to settle how it should be
03:29 Seveas mako, sabdfl said: File bugs when you see Ubuntite - inconsistency can not be solved right here right now :)
03:30 mako cool
03:30 raphink StevenK: not sure, in latin cultures it feels funny to call a female with -o name
03:30 kiko well
03:30 sabdfl raphink: not even really cool females?
03:30 smurf sabdfl: I don't think so
=== Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:30 elmo sabdfl: no
03:30 smurf sabdfl: Spain is not Russia ;-)
=== bhuvan prays no new gender issue on ubuntero in future
03:31 raphink sabdfl: let's see, females I see on linux systems like to be recognized as such even more than in other places most of
the time...
03:31 \sh .oO(what is a really cool female?"
03:31 Seveas \sh, my fiancee :)
03:31 raphink \sh: lol
=== ogra thinks ice princess
03:31 sabdfl i have another 30 mins, guys
03:31 elmo sabdfl: dude, I've already had people complain about this to me. I'm not arguing for hypotheticals
=== alerios [n=alerios@63.245.87.62] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Abandonando"]
03:31 raphink females who get to use Ubuntu deserve much ;)
03:31 \sh Seveas: but she is not from a latin country, right? ,)
03:31 raphink hehe
03:31 Seveas \sh, no
03:31 Kamion StevenK: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1116733725 is the origin
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:32 sabdfl ok, i don't mind reverting to ubuntite, but i think it sounds trite and uptight :-)
03:32 ogra lets move on ...
03:32 Kamion it's expressly coming from idioms in other languages
03:32 Seveas sabdfl, you should revert it anyway temporarily until we can come up with a Really Cool Name(tm)
03:32 mako seems like next up is the typo in the CoC
03:32 kjcole One could look at Esperanto rules and see if there's any kind of gender-neutral, language-neutral ending...
03:32 raphink Seveas: lol
=== mhz thinks 'ubunter' is just perfect
03:33 Kamion Typo in the Code of Conduct: [WWW] https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3952 (ChristianReis)
03:33 Kamion at least this one is definitely within the CC's purview ;-)
03:33 Seveas indeed
03:33 Seveas it means everyone will have to sign again
03:33 raphink kjcole: names in esperanto finish with -o and are neutral. Male names finish with -ulo and female with -ino.
03:33 Seveas raphink, we moved on already...
03:33 kiko okay
03:33 sabdfl those caps are a little scary
03:33 kiko so there's a typo in the CoC
03:33 mhz raphink: good point
03:33 sabdfl we don't have to re-sign
03:33 Kamion Seveas: no, there's no particular reason to require people to sign the most current version if it's just a typo
cleanup
03:34 Seveas ah ok
03:34 sabdfl the system is smart enough to remember which version you signed
03:34 Kamion it would have to be a new version, yes
03:34 sabdfl and i think it has a list of currently valid versions
03:34 mako i'm reading tha tcnetance and i can't even see the error
03:34 Seveas if launchpad can handle multiple CoC's there's no problem
03:34 kiko it can
03:34 sabdfl s/it/is/
03:34 Kamion while we're at it we should nominate somebody to do a general proofreading pass
03:34 mako ah, ok
03:34 kiko I just wanted to bring this matter to your attention
03:34 Kamion I'm happy to volunteer for that
03:34 mako sure, shhould bbe fixed
03:34 sabdfl kiko: nicely done
03:34 kiko sure
03:34 Seveas who will fix it?
03:34 mhz Kamion: would new versions include localisations?
03:34 ogra Seveas, Kamion
03:35 Kamion mhz: that's a separate issue
03:35 kiko mhz, not yet, different topic.
03:35 mhz okis
03:35 mako mhz: we haven't talked about that
03:35 Seveas .oO(Note to self: thorough proofreading of CoC for next meeting)
03:35 Kamion ogra: I can't change launchpad
03:35 MagicFab perhaps also include a reminder to people that have signed, whenever it changes
03:35 kiko Seveas, I have someone to do that, I just want a new copy of the CoC, properly proofread.
03:35 ogra Kamion, oh, misunderstood
03:35 kiko I can also produce a list of people that have signed the old one
03:35 Kamion Seveas: doesn't need to be in a meeting, I can just mail the CC a diff to make sure everyone's happy with the changes
03:35 sabdfl mhz: we definitely want to do loclaisations of the CoC, just needs LP dev time
03:35 mako kiko: well, go ahead and make that one-byte change
03:35 mako it's uncontroversial
03:35 kiko if we want to spam them to re-sign
03:35 sabdfl kiko: no need for that no
03:36 Kamion mako: I'd really like to avoid 1.0.1 1.0.2 etc. for successive one-byte changes
03:36 kiko mako, I would rather only rev the version once this time
03:36 Seveas kiko, neh, not for this change
03:36 kiko ok
03:36 MagicFab Kamion: align it with release cycles
03:36 mako Kamion: so, wait until next week
03:36 kiko I said spam for a reason :)
03:36 Kamion shall I do this and mail launchpad@ with the diff once we're done
03:36 Kamion MagicFab: no
03:36 mako it's been there for a year, we can wait two weeks :)
03:36 mako kiko: and no, i don't think people need to resign
=== sabdfl never noticed it before
03:36 bhuvan we can post in mailing lists
03:36 Seveas Kamion, sounds like a plan
03:36 Kamion mako: it'll take ten minutes to do ;)
03:36 mhz sabdfl: I asked because in case other people want to become members, I could ofer myself for the non-offcial version
so they could at least understant what they'll face whn they sign
03:36 kiko Kamion, that would be perfect.
03:36 kjcole kiko, since you have a way of knowing who signed, is there a way to just automatically build that into some sort of
announce mailing-list (broadcast only)?
03:37 sabdfl mhz: we will do proper i18n for the CoC, just need to extend the system that tracks them
03:37 kiko kjcole, not easily, but talk to me on #launchpad later about your use case and I'll see.
03:37 mako yeah, i can take a look at it again also
=== mhz okis
03:37 mako but people have a pretty amazing ability to see right through their own errors
03:37 Kamion ok, NEXT :-)
03:38 Amaranth mako: In more than just spelling and grammar. :)
03:38 Kamion Automatix / forums nightmare argument issue
03:38 Kamion are the relevant people actually here?
03:38 jsgotangco forums...
03:38 robotgeek I have a nice writeup here: http://robotgeek.org/cc.html
03:38 Amaranth btw, holy crap i made it to a meeting
03:38 jsgotangco haha
03:38 Seveas automatix is the piece of crap that triggers reinstalls all over
03:38 Kyral Seveas: Agreed :D
03:39 ogra thats the one that breaks your sources.list, right ?
03:39 Kamion robotgeek: thanks, please add that to the link farm on the agenda
03:39 robotgeek that link provides all relevant background, and also provides the links to conversations in #ubuntuforums
03:39 Madpilot and it's causing censorship problems in the forums...
03:39 Seveas that last line may have been a violation of the CoC, but the script is SO DAMN STUPID, I already know of dozens of
people who had to reinstall after using it
03:39 nalioth automatix is just a symptom of the larger issue
03:39 Kamion (which we'll probably move to somewhere else, but anyway)
03:39 robotgeek Kamion: sorry, i came up with it two hours ago. will do right away
03:39 Kyral It adds the PLF repos for one thing...
03:39 zakame er
03:39 mako "thereby violating my rights given to me by GPL": i don't think you mean that
03:40 Kamion so I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the post-deletions issue I've seen; however we have not yet heard the
administration say their piece
=== chmj [n=chmj@dsl-146-143-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
03:40 robotgeek mako: it was GPL'ed, and they did not allow me to post my changes?
03:40 Kamion and I don't particularly want us to hold a trial in absentia
03:40 ogra and they are not here it seems
=== raphink wonders why magic scripts like automatix or easyubuntu are not replaced by series of inter-dependent packages in multiverse
03:40 Seveas Kamion, indeed, but the forum administrators seem not to like coming to meetings
03:40 Amaranth raphink: work on that was done where it made sense
03:40 Seveas the almost always miss them
03:41 Amaranth Yeah, the forum has really seemed to distance itself.
03:41 nalioth are the ubuntuforums 'official' ?
03:41 Kyral raphink: The reason why is because the majority of what they do is pull in things like w32codecs and SunJava
03:41 Seveas nalioth, yes
03:41 Amaranth no
03:41 Amaranth err, since when?
03:41 ogra yes
03:41 Seveas since a long time already
03:41 ogra warty
03:41 raphink Kyral: well then it's not useful
03:41 mako robotgeek: it would only be a GPL issue if you let you distribute the binary but not the source
03:41 jsgotangco since we started paying part of the hosting...
03:41 Kamion nalioth: yes, and Canonical contributes to their funding
03:41 robotgeek mako: it's a bash script :)
03:41 Amaranth ah
03:41 mako robotgeek: this is a social problem, not a licensingg isssue
03:42 robotgeek mako: agreed
03:42 mako robotgeek: lets focus on the real issue
03:42 Amaranth any canonical employees have any powers on the forum?
03:42 Amaranth or any ubuntu members, even?
03:42 jsgotangco no idea
03:42 nalioth i think the forums needs a check-call, because there are major problems there. they seem to think the forums are not
part of the ubuntu community as a whole
03:42 Kamion Amaranth: a number of forums folks are members
03:42 Kyral I believe UbuntuGeek is a Member
03:42 Seveas Amaranth, most of the forum staff are members
03:42 Seveas so they should (but don't) respect the code of conduct
03:42 Kamion but there are no Canonical employees in the administration to my knowledge (which is probably how it should be)
03:42 jjesse it seems every meeting lately there are issues w/ the forums
03:42 jsgotangco agreed
03:43 mako alright, the accusations are flying hard and heavy
03:43 ogra jjesse, yes, but the people never appear here
03:43 mako the forums are *huge*
03:43 Amaranth Kamion: I can see both sides of that one but I'd think having at least a mod would be a good thing.
03:43 MagicFab PLF repos and ubuntu-fr docs are very non-free friendly - post install info includes Skype, msttfonts, MP3, etc.
03:43 mako they are a massive portion of the ubuntu community
03:43 MagicFab ubuntu-fr.org , that is
03:43 jjesse ogra: if they don't appear here, then how can we deal w/ them here?
03:43 mako in terms of raw numbers, they are quite likely the largest part
03:43 ogra jjesse, thats the prob :)
03:43 mako it might makes sense that there a proportional amount of disagreements come from them
03:43 jsgotangco most of the time, the forums are a unique community by itself...
03:44 robotgeek the problem is that Ubuntuforums tends to feel that they are not a part of this community, even starting off their own
wiki project
03:44 Kyral MagicFab: I had a help case in where using the PLF repos seemed to cripple someone's system so bad that he couldn't
install build-essential
03:44 zakame indeed :(
03:44 Seveas ok, we are rescheduling CC meetings at the end of this one, should we just defer this for now and wait for the next
meeting so the forum staff can show up?
03:44 jsgotangco robotgeek, that feeling is social
03:44 Seveas without forum staff there is not much we can do now
03:44 \sh Seveas: if they show up
03:44 Kamion I didn't realise this was coming up until I looked at the agenda two hours ago
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03:45 Kamion did anyone explicitly ask the forums administration to show up here at this time?
03:45 mhz robotgeek: I agree on that
03:45 robotgeek half of the stuff is going to be gone, cause they prune the threads and all
03:45 Amaranth robotgeek: So kassetra basically just moved every automatix-related post you made to the jail?
03:45 Seveas they really should stop deleting things
03:45 Madpilot Kamion: it's been posting at CCAgenda for a day or two
03:45 MagicFab Some articles in ubuntu-fr planet explain how to use .debs directly etc. - I am not opposed to that but perhaps
guidelines for LoCos should extend the CoC and provide for this
03:45 Kyral the Ubuntu Forums channel is #ubuntuforums if anyone wants to know
03:45 robotgeek Amaranth: yup.
03:45 smurf IMHO removing (meta-)controversial items instead of openly discussing them simply aggravates the problem in the long
run
03:45 sabdfl smurf: +1
03:45 Kamion Madpilot: yes, but I don't sit reloading that religiously
03:45 Madpilot Amaranth: one of my posts was yanked too
03:45 nalioth Amaranth: robotgeek was not the only one 'pruned'
03:45 Kamion Madpilot: and I doubt forums admins do either
03:46 Seveas Kamion, subscribe to it ;)
03:46 MagicFab Madpilot: not everyone knows to subscribe to wiki pages
03:46 Amaranth nalioth: That'd be like you and me kicking random people in #ubuntu. :P
03:46 sabdfl so, i think Kassetra has misread the GPL
03:46 kjcole smurf: Agreed. Hiding stuff doesn't make it go away.
03:46 Kamion Seveas: I just did, but still, there's a lot of noise, and it *still* doesn't address the issue that nobody has yet
owned up to asking the forums admins to be here
03:46 ogra MagicFab, its one click
03:47 Seveas Kamion, I'll ask for the next meeting
03:47 Amaranth wtf
03:47 robotgeek sabdfl: i think the issue was that arnieboy was a forum staff member
03:47 Kamion Seveas: thank you
03:47 Amaranth normal users can't get into the jail?
03:47 raphink a consequence of documenting .deb installations too much is that many people come to pretend Ubuntu is hard to use
because they tried to install stuff this way instead of using apt-get (or GUIs)
03:47 Seveas Amaranth, normal users can't see half of the forums
03:47 sabdfl she seems to think that it requires permission to change the code and publish a modified version
03:47 Seveas they are too closed for non-members too
03:47 MagicFab ogra: I know, among many other click in the same page. The forum admins may not be familiar with it (I wasn't).
explicit invitation and "subscribe" should do it.
03:47 Amaranth Seveas: Now that I have a serious problem with.
03:47 Kyral I'll PM Kass on the Forums if anyone wants me to
03:47 Kamion one of the threads linked to from the agenda does have arnieboy apparently threatening to delete bug reports (implying
doing it himself, although it wasn't explicit)
03:48 Madpilot Kamion: that's exactly what happened to several posts, including robotgeek's
03:48 sabdfl robotgeek: did the new version correctly credit arnieboy's original copyright?
03:48 robotgeek sabdfl: yes
03:48 Kamion MagicFab: no, if somebody needs to show up for some bit of arbitration, they need to be explicitly asked to show up,
rather than expecting everyone who might be involved in arbitration to subscribe all the time
03:48 sabdfl Kamion: +1
03:48 robotgeek sabdfl: i just added my name at the top, everything else was intact
03:48 smurf sabdfl: I'd be inclined to treat that as a symptom for now; if the discussion would have (a) stayed open and (b)
people wouldn't immediately jump on each other, minor issues like what the GPL means are self-correcting
=== mako nods to smurf
03:49 sabdfl smurf: well, i suspect the forums admins are super busy, and don't want to leave things out there
03:49 Amaranth (off topic: claiming automatix is the successor to "ubuntu guide" doesn't make me feel too good about it)
03:49 MagicFab Kamion: I was saying "invite them to meeting", but also "tell them to subscribe to the Agenda" as appropriate
03:49 sabdfl they have to take decisions quickly, or it would all pile up
03:49 Seveas Amaranth, you shouldn't
03:49 zakame hm I think observing the code of conduct in the forums should be emphasized :(
03:49 Seveas it's utter crap
03:49 Kyral zakame: Here Here!
03:49 Kamion MagicFab: I'm just saying I don't think the latter is an appropriate thing for us to ask them to do; most people don't
live for community council meetings
03:49 jjesse Amaranth: people should be using the ubuntu guide that is included in the docs
03:49 mako Amaranth: the fact it installs lots of non-free and undistributable software doesn't exactly help
03:49 robotgeek Amaranth: it's Ubuntu Forums wiki: http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page
03:49 nalioth Amaranth: they dont claim that, there is another site that they make that claim about
03:49 mako and (apparently) bypasses legally binding shrinkrap licenses
03:50 sabdfl the question here is did Kassetra just make a mistake (easily corrected) or was she trying to help arnieboy and
ignoring the GPL in the process
03:50 Amaranth nalioth: arnieboy makes that claim in his signature
03:50 Kyral sabdfl: I have a log of an IRC "discussion" I had with the rest of the Forums community about it
03:50 jjesse the doc team has had some disagreements w/ http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Paige
03:50 mako sabdfl: i don't think it's fair to have this conversation without Kas or arniebboy
03:50 jjesse the doc team has had some disagreements w/ http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page
03:50 Kyral I could dig it up and post it someplace
03:50 Seveas Kyral, post it for the next meeting
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03:50 Kyral Seveas: Edited for content?
03:50 Seveas we cannot really do anything now
03:51 MagicFab Yeah, CoC should prevail
03:51 Seveas Kyral, verbose
03:51 crimsun I agree with mako
03:51 robotgeek sabdfl: if you look at the google cache link, she did it knowingly. in fact, i believe she crafted the license
03:51 zakame Kyral: I mean if people there simply delete posts (er even threaten deletion) that wouldn't do anyone good :(
03:51 sabdfl the hotel just called to let me know that my "ground transportation" has arrived.
03:51 smurf Hmmm. It works very well for ubuntuusers.de; the forum there is *quite* busy too. Letting the members self-police, and
ping admins when necessary, basically works here.
03:51 Amaranth Kyral: Can you email that to alleykat@gmail.com ?
03:51 Seveas mako++
03:51 sabdfl how very military
03:51 Kyral Okay: Its ugly, tempers flared
03:51 Seveas sabdfl, g'bye then
03:51 Kyral Amaranth: After class remind me :P
03:51 robotgeek sabdfl: nice talking to you
03:51 Kyral I'll remmebr but just in case
03:51 Seveas Shall we move on to the next topic?
03:51 Kyral cya sabdfl
03:51 ogra sabdfl, so dont forget your helmet ;)
03:51 Kyral or your towel!
03:51 raphink lol
03:51 Kamion Seveas: if you're happy to take responsibility for asking some set of Kassetra, arnieboy, ubuntugeek, and/or other
admins to show up, that would be fantastic
03:51 kjcole sabdfl: ta-ta
03:51 jsgotangco bye sabdfl thanks for the email too
03:51 Kamion sabdfl: see you
03:52 Seveas Kamion, I will
03:52 MagicFab sabdfl: quick remonider: ColombianTeam starting, hoping to see you there
03:52 Kamion Seveas: thank you
03:52 zakame bye sabdfl :D
03:52 Kamion ok, NEXT
03:52 MagicFab sabdfl: (in Colombia, next year)
03:52 Seveas mhz,
03:52 raphink sabdfl: have a good ground transportation ;)
03:52 Kamion MauricioHernandez was approved during last meeting but he still does not appear listed as member in ?LaunchPad (it's
been 2 weeks)
03:52 sabdfl mako: i still think we could easily take a view on the derivative work, and let Kas know that we think it's fine and
not in violation of the CoC and therefore does not need to be in the jail
03:52 mhz Seveas: yup?
03:52 Kamion mhz isn't approved because mako didn't vote (that I saw)
03:52 Kamion mako: ?
03:52 Seveas mako, you said you would vote for mhz later and didn't do so yet, so please :)
03:52 sabdfl wait guys, i don't think we need to call the whole forums group in for every issue
03:52 mako mhz++
03:52 mako welcome
03:52 Seveas mako, cool
03:52 Seveas mhz, welcome aboard!
03:52 jsgotangco lol
=== ogra applauds mhz ...
03:52 mhz mako: thx, hehehe
03:52 sabdfl the "censorship" here is just Kas enforcing what she understands
03:53 ogra finally
03:53 Kamion sabdfl: Kassetra and arnieboy, then? they seem to be the relevant pair
03:53 Seveas (who has launchpad duty today?)
03:53 Kamion Seveas: me
03:53 sabdfl and we can rule that the code is fine to be published (even if we don't like the code)
03:53 mhz ogra: finally :)
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03:53 ogra :)
03:53 sabdfl that should be enough for robotgeek to get what he wants
03:53 zakame yay mhz !
03:53 Seveas Next up kjcole
03:53 sabdfl and Kas to gain a better understanding of the GPL
03:53 mhz zakame: educool
03:54 kjcole OK. I assume we're talking the LoCo names and not my membership.
03:54 MagicFab bien, mhz :D
03:54 sabdfl if there is still censorship after that, then it's not accidental
03:54 Seveas kjcole, correct
03:54 Kamion sabdfl: right, needs someone who themselves has a good understanding of licensing to talk to them so that if they have
other issues then there can be a useful discussion rather than "uh ..."
03:54 mhz MagicFab: thx, suerte a ti!
03:55 Amaranth Kamion: Volunteering? :)
03:55 sabdfl Kamion: they are welcome to ping any of us on IRC, if they need that clarification, but this one is simple, Kas was
not correct to jail the thread on the grounds of IP
03:55 Kamion Amaranth: not especially :-/
03:55 kjcole I've herded the US cats, as per smurf's request. The consensus seemed to be Us<<State>><<City|CompassPoint>>
03:55 Kyral I think we need RMS to talk to her lol
03:55 sabdfl no need to turn it into a major issue
03:55 Amaranth Kyral: We don't want to scar her for life...
03:55 Seveas Kyral, :|
03:55 kjcole e.g. UsTxAustin or UsTxNorth.
03:55 Kyral Amaranth: lol
03:55 Kamion kjcole: domain names aren't wiki-style ...
03:55 raphink Kyral: +1
03:55 Seveas kjcole, Do you think there will be so many teams?!
03:55 raphink lol
=== Kyral actually wants to meet RMS :D
03:56 Seveas Kyral, please don't go off-topic
03:56 Kyral sorry
03:56 kjcole Hyphens instead of wiki style was also an option.
03:56 ogra Seveas, US is a bit bigger than europe ;)
03:56 Seveas ogra, true, but 2 in texas?
03:56 smurf kjcole: umm, would that be north.tx.ubuntu-us.org then?
03:56 Kamion sabdfl: ok, how about I communicate that to her
03:56 jbailey Seveas: In the US and Canada, it's often not so much number of teams as proximity.
03:56 kjcole Seveas: The problem is we already have two in texas...
03:56 Seveas smurf, that and ubutnu-us-tx-north@lists
03:56 Kamion since everyone else is RUNNING AWAY :-)
03:56 ogra Seveas, Texas is bigger than europe i guess :)
03:56 jbailey Seveas: Canada is 14 times the size of France. =)
03:56 raphink ogra: Tx is not much bigger than France or Germany
03:57 mako i'm happy to talk to them
03:57 ogra raphink, but still ...
03:57 Kamion mako: hooray
=== mako knows a couple things about licensingg
=== Seveas cheers for mako
03:57 Kamion :-)
03:57 MagicFab jbailey: and half the people
03:57 Amaranth Heh, I was just about to say mako probably knows best. :)
03:57 kjcole Rewinding a bit: At UBZ, a few were talking about how "country" and "local" meant two different things.
03:57 sabdfl cheers all
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03:58 Seveas kjcole, anyway, sounds like a plan and since you don't need CC approval for such things you should simply ping smurf
to arrange it :)
03:58 mako i'm going to finish reading the logs and then contact kas and arnieboy
03:58 kjcole Local (to me and a few others) suggested a community where people were close enough to meet face to face.
03:58 jbailey MagicFab: Right. But a 5.5 time zone spread makes meetings very hard. =)
03:58 smurf Fine with me, anyay
03:58 MagicFab kjcole: and "locale" too
03:58 smurf anyway
03:58 Kamion Seveas: indeed
03:58 mako does someone have arniboy's email?
03:58 Seveas mako, will you ask them to come to the meeting too?
03:58 smurf as long as people don't want ubuntu-us-tx-north.org :-/
03:58 robotgeek mako: greyrod@gmail.com
03:58 Kamion Seveas: no, that's obsolete
03:58 robotgeek nothing's wrong with TX
03:58 Seveas Kamion, ok
03:59 Kyral robotgeek: lol
03:59 Seveas So then we landed at new members
03:59 Kamion Seveas: sabdfl ruled on it, none of us disagreed (and I think we all heartily agree), end of story :)
03:59 MarioMeyer_ why dont u do sub-domains.. like north.tx.ubuntu-us.org
03:59 raphink :)
03:59 Seveas MarioMeyer_, they do
03:59 Seveas Kamion, couldn't agree more
03:59 mako Seveas: sure
03:59 \sh smurf: you could sell subdomains to it...like me.at.* like jump.to ,-)
04:00 smurf \sh: They're Canonical's ;-)
04:00 Seveas anyway, anyone question/remarks about any of the previous topics?
04:00 MagicFab I know if I go to Texas I wouldn't be searching for "TX" or "north.tx"
04:00 Seveas going once
04:00 robotgeek Seveas: wait...
04:00 mako lets move on
04:00 mako please
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04:00 mako it's gonna be pumpkin time again sooner rather than later
04:00 Seveas ok
04:00 robotgeek Seveas: the main issue is not with my script/whatever, but with the censorship. However, that's for later?
04:00 Seveas robotgeek, yes
04:01 Seveas moving on now
04:01 Kamion robotgeek: already ruled on and passed
04:01 robotgeek good
04:01 Seveas MagicFab
04:01 MagicFab yes
04:01 MagicFab posting summary...
WikiPage:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez - re-edited since last CC. I am originally from Colombia, have been
04:01 MagicFab living in Quebec Canada since '89. I am part of Canadian Team, Marketing Team and recently helping Colombian Team get
started (Loco Contact). I started UbuntuInLibraries, I also occasionally do cleanup on the Wiki, post to forums or
help in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-es.
I currently work full-time as an Open Source software solutions consultant, focusing on security and migration issues
04:01 MagicFab in Montreal. I have developed Linux training focused on Ubuntu which will be given at local libraries and ed.
facilities, I have strong links to the local community and I am mostly interested in advocacy/marketing (events,
etc.), local support & training and new users introduction / migration to Gnu/Linux
04:02 ogra MagicFab participated a lot in te ltsp BOFs iirc ...
04:02 Seveas to add: MagicFab was defered last time, since his wiki page was not clear enough on his contributions (being mainly in
advocacy) and he has been asked to return this time after fixing that
04:02 Kamion mako: did you work with MagicFab over the last two weeks?
04:03 MagicFab I asked Drobitaille, CBurger , HFiguiere (members) to come, they're all in timezones difficult to come
04:03 MagicFab BUrger is here, also GuBa from (future) ColombianTeam
04:03 mako MagicFab: did we? i don't remember doing more than a few messages
04:03 mhz MagicFab: has also been active on marketing proposals and spreading ubuntu for latinamerican people
04:04 MagicFab mako: no, I asked for input but didn't get any replies. However I asked other members/users and did many changes
=== Kamion finds https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fabi%C3%A1nRodr%C3%ADguezDetail
04:04 Seveas Actively marketing and selling Ubuntu-related services locally: <-- any url on that?
04:05 mhz Seveas, also MagicFab has started UbuntuInLibraries initiative
04:05 mako i'm still concerned that many of the more substantial projects within the the ubuntu project have pages and edits that
are within the last week or two
04:05 MagicFab http://www.fabianrodriguez.com
04:05 MagicFab :)
04:06 jsgotangco mako, as if rushing for something?
04:06 jsgotangco :)
04:06 Seveas mhz, yeah I really like that one
04:06 mako mhz: yes, but that page is 9 days old
04:06 MagicFab mako: whois
04:07 mako on a conference call next week, we discussed the idea of giving some more fixed guidelines in terms of what we meaned
by sustained projects
04:07 mhz hmmm, it is probably because many non-english activities related to ubuntu are usually not logged somewhere
04:07 mako basically, an involvement in/on a particular project that is 2+ months
04:07 mako mhz: well, then we need testimonials
=== mako is still reading the detail page
04:08 Seveas mako, advocacy is not always in projects
04:08 MagicFab mako: well, Iasked you driectly for input, didn't get any. I didn't re-add myself to the CC agenda, so I thought it
was OK. Regardless, membership is not a requisite for me to keep contributing.
04:08 mhz mako: that's why having latinamerican ubuntu memebers was so important
04:08 mako Seveas: i understand that and i have been happy to accept other advocates
04:09 mako and i'm going to be happy to accept MagicFab too :)
04:09 mako but in fairness to everyone else, it seems like *some* testimonials would be useful
04:09 mhz usually, many contributors do not get logged mainly because 99% of what they do is in spanish or other lang.
04:09 mako in the absence of other documentation
04:09 Seveas mako, the people who can are not yet here
04:09 mako mhz: point me to spanish pages then
04:09 mako other people have
04:10 MagicFab how can I get that if theycan't come.
04:10 mako Seveas: i understand that
04:10 jsgotangco mhz, that shouldnt be an impendiment
04:10 MagicFab mhz: all my contribs are listed there (my wiki)
04:10 mako MagicFab: you can have them write it up? as comments on your page
04:10 mako in email to the CC
04:10 mako there are many options
04:10 Seveas mako, that's an idea
04:10 mhz jsgotangco: i know, it is just that even I had to make a decision... english or spanish. I chose english.
04:10 mako i believe we have solved the communicating asynchronously problem ;)
04:10 Kamion mako: perhaps we could mail those that Fabian lists under People and ask them for comments
04:11 Kamion (hub, corey, daniel, sivan)
04:11 mhz MagicFab: do you have a list or something?
04:11 mako Kamion: seems good
04:11 MagicFab mako: yes
04:11 mhz mako: good point
04:11 MagicFab Kamion: exactly
04:11 Kamion mhz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fabi%c3%a1nRodr%c3%adguez
04:11 MagicFab mako: they all need to be current members, right ?
04:11 Seveas MagicFab, not per se
04:11 Kamion mako: wanna do that, or shall I?
04:11 Seveas but it helps
04:12 Kamion certainly all the above are known to me, although I don't know hub so well
04:12 mako MagicFab: they should have been around for a long time and are well known and trusted by the CC and teh community
04:12 mako MagicFab: that will almost always make them members :)
04:12 mako but need not
04:12 MagicFab One thing I sense is that advocacy is always treated as second-class work. I feel I could become member by going MOTU
in 1/10 the time
04:12 Amaranth MagicFab: It's easier to show MOTU work.
04:12 Kamion MagicFab: it's not so much second-class as much harder to "measure"
04:12 MagicFab And, well, without advocacy what would we do ?
04:12 mako MagicFab: that's not true
04:12 jsgotangco MagicFab, that ain't true...
04:12 Seveas kamion +1
=== jsgotangco is more of advocate rather than developer
04:13 ogra MagicFab, you cant become MOTU without being member
04:13 mako i can think of a dozen members off of my top of my head who have pure advocacy
04:13 jjesse MagicFab: it took me 4 or 5 tries to be a member
04:13 mako probably 50% are pure advocacy memberships (even if they do other things)
04:13 MagicFab Well, it's not encouraging any advocacy work to just say "it's harder" - I mentioned in the last CC there needed to be
more info for this kind of contributing
04:13 ogra MagicFab, but indeed its easier to document a handfull of bugs you solved than social work
04:13 smurf MagicFab: you forget that MOTU work is not visible most of the time -- all the hours of hacking on your box to find
those damn bugs ...
04:14 jsgotangco ogra, true the social work really needs to be visible...
04:14 ogra yup
04:14 mako MagicFab: we talked about creating guidelines in a conference call after the next meeting
04:14 ogra and bugs are in bugzilla already
04:14 Kamion s/next/last/
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04:14 MagicFab ogra: I'd like to work on that too -
04:14 ogra great :)
=== akurashy [n=David@64.237.176.17] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:15 jsgotangco jjesse, only because you don't go to meetings often before =)
04:15 mako MagicFab: you're not beiing rejected and you shouldn't feel that way
04:15 teroedni :)
04:15 jjesse jsgotangco: grin :)
04:15 MagicFab smurf: will setup a CVS for my UBuntu mentions all day :)
04:15 mako we ask everyone for 2 full months of sustained, significant, and visible contributions
04:15 MagicFab mako : I don't ;) I feel like my membership process is testing some new ground
04:15 mako frequently, the visible the hard part :)
04:15 jsgotangco growing pains
04:16 Seveas MagicFab, it is
04:16 bhuvan MagicFab, you must not take it that way
04:16 MagicFab mako: ONE month
04:16 MagicFab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberProcess?highlight=%28newmember%29
04:16 zakame jsgotangco: here here! :D
04:16 MagicFab or two depending on sources - that's what I mean
04:17 MagicFab anyways, I
04:17 mako MagicFab: we're probably going to change that :)
04:17 MagicFab will get involved in the NewMember stuff, hope to learn more from there
04:17 Seveas MagicFab, cool, glad you don't feel rejected
04:17 bhuvan MagicFab, good
04:18 mako MagicFab: where does it say one month?
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04:18 Seveas mako, you have said that before, so I put that on the what-to-do-if-you-want-to-be-a-member page
04:18 mako MagicFab: also, that is a wikipage, not an official process page
04:18 zakame MagicFab: go rock the advocacy :D
04:18 Kamion MagicFab: the mention of a month there is about people who never show up for discussion
04:18 mako Seveas: cool
04:18 mhz MagicFab: how old is tha include you made and shared with me ?
04:19 mako alright, lets go on
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04:19 Seveas LaserJock,
04:19 Seveas (JordanMantha)
04:19 Seveas give us the 3-line intro please
04:19 LaserJock wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
04:19 LaserJock LP: https://launchpad.net/people/mantha
I am a 4th year PhD student in Physical Chemistry at the University of Nevada, Reno. I have been using Ubuntu since
04:19 LaserJock the Hoary Array CDs. I use it at work for data collection and analysis (as well as packaging on the side ;-) ) I've
been helping out the MOTU since a few weeks before the Breezy release. I try to do whatever I can to help.
04:19 LaserJock Basically, I try to focus on scientific package since I feel the need for that. For Breezy I worked on unmet deps and
FTBFS as much as I could while learning to package.
04:19 LaserJock I have done some merges and worked on some bugs. I also started a MOTUScience team and a working on an Ubuntu
Packaging Guide for the doc-team.
04:20 bhuvan LaserJock have been doing good job on packaging guide for quite some time
04:20 jsgotangco yay
04:20 Seveas ok, MOTU people, we need advocates :)
04:20 MagicFab Kamion: I'll dig it - the point is the process is CONFUSING and excluding advocacy because "it's hard to measure".
I'll try harder to measure it, so should you
04:20 jjesse LaserJock: is working hard on the doc team
04:20 Amaranth LaserJock: ever get any feedback upstream on the science category?
04:20 ogra and at the MOTUs
04:20 LaserJock Amaranth: don't think so yet
04:21 LaserJock Amaranth: I will keep track of it though
04:21 Amaranth LaserJock: if not snag the icon from the bug and see if seb128 will do it as a patch for now
04:21 crimsun I worked with Jordan prior to Breezy's release; a couple of his changes are in Breezy
04:21 Kyral LaserJock: I think the only thing we got back was the email tag about FlowDesigner
04:21 ogra he's around for quite some time already and did a lot of merges i'd consider myself as rather advanced tasks
04:21 crimsun I've also uploaded a host of his merge work for Dapper
04:21 dholbach i was very happy to see LaserJock start the motuscience team and start working on organising the MOTU part of the wiki
=== chmj [n=chmj@dsl-146-143-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
04:21 Seveas ok, the cheerleaders are happy :)
04:21 Amaranth aye
04:21 jsgotangco yeahh
04:22 Kamion MagicFab: yeah, it's something we talked about on the phone the other week and will be trying to improve
04:22 MagicFab crimsun: for how long ;)
04:22 zakame go go go LaserJock :)
04:22 seb128 Amaranth: what?
04:22 crimsun MagicFab: a bit longer than two months
04:22 Seveas LaserJocks wikipage looks ok, syncing is a good job :)
04:23 ogra and wxwidgets is an evil package to start with, kudos ...
04:23 bhuvan LaserJock, you should have included your doc patches in your wiki
04:23 Seveas :)
04:24 LaserJock ogra: yeah, I didn't know what I was getting into
04:24 ogra hehe
04:24 ogra but you did it :)
04:24 Seveas LaserJock, to boldly merge what no one ever merged before
04:24 Kamion prior to breezy's release => nearly more than two months already
04:24 LaserJock Seveas: lol, ignorance instead of boldness maybe
04:25 Seveas LaserJock, well you pulled it off
04:25 Seveas that's a big +
04:25 \sh laserjock for membership? I'm happy to see him as member and later on as motu :)
=== Bonzodog [n=Bonzodog@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:25 LaserJock \sh: eventually. one step at a time
04:25 Seveas the crowd is happy, but what about the CC?
04:25 mako there's certainly a lot of work h ere
04:26 jsgotangco solid work really
04:26 Kamion there are uploads from LaserJock going back to September, anyway
04:26 \sh LaserJock: no excuses no running away :)
=== ogra remembers that mako can speak from a MOTU POV too now :)
04:26 dholbach haha
=== dholbach hugs mako :)
=== ogra hugs mako too
04:26 mako airght
04:26 bhuvan dholbach you hug frequently :)
04:27 \sh oh yes...mako...welcome to MOTU :) we're waiting for your merges ;9
04:27 raphink :)
04:27 mako LaserJock sounds fine with me
04:27 ogra bhuvan, he's a true hugger
04:27 Kamion I'm very happy to see somebody taking up a bunch of science applications, and am happy with LaserJock for membership
04:27 elmo ack from me too
04:27 Seveas LaserJock, congratz!
04:28 dholbach congratulations, LaserJock
04:28 jsgotangco cheers
04:28 LaserJock thanks CC, thanks all you supporters
04:28 Seveas welcome to the Ubuntumember boat
04:28 \sh LaserJock: welcome aboard :)
04:28 Kamion LaserJock: a lot of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline seems like it would fit under the banner of
developer-documentation (discussed at UBZ; conclusion was to make a small branch of the Debian Developer's Reference)
=== LaserJock hugs everybody
04:28 ogra yay for LaserJock
04:28 Seveas Next up: Kyral (Chris Peterman)
04:28 zakame yay LaserJock :D
04:28 Kyral Wiki: wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
04:28 Kamion it might be worthwhile looking at that rather than duplicating several years of work in Debian
04:28 LaserJock Kamion: I talked to Diziet about that. He thought it was ok
04:28 Kamion ok ...
04:28 LaserJock Kamion: I will keep in touch with him though
04:29 Kamion thanks
04:29 Seveas Kyral has been quite active in #ubuntu
=== ogra waits for the three liner intor
04:29 ogra *intro
Greetings. I am currently a second year CS Major at Clarkson University. Currently I am helping out mostly on the
04:30 Kyral Forums, but I have also recently been helping out LaserJock with MOTUScience. I have also started a small LocoTeam
between Clarkson University and SUNY Potsdam. Currently running Dapper on both my Desktop on Laptop
04:30 Seveas that's line one :)
04:30 Seveas what are your plans for Ubuntu activity?
04:31 \sh he forgot to tell us that he was the first pupil in ubuntus motu school :)
04:31 mhz LaserJock: yahooo!
04:31 MagicFab for how long ?
04:31 Kyral Yah, I got jumped by 4 MOTUs last Wednesday
04:31 ogra \sh, did he behave while you were teaching him ? :)
04:31 raphink lol
04:31 Seveas IRC activity dates back quite some time
04:32 \sh ogra: well...yes..but he forgot his homework :)
04:32 Kyral RIght now I have finals coming up so Ubuntu is kinda on the backburner
04:32 Kyral However in-between semesters I will pick up on my activity again, hopefully finishing FlowDesigner's patches
=== ogra thinks he remembers Kyral from #ubuntu when he was active there himself ...
04:33 Kyral In addition I have signed up to write the Install Guide for the DocTeam and I plan to help LaserJock with the
packaging Guide
04:33 mako when was this?
04:33 Seveas ogra, correct
04:33 ogra mako, way ago ...
04:33 Kyral mako: When was what?
04:33 Seveas My logs only date back to sept 23 and he was active then
04:33 Amaranth oh crap, finals
=== Amaranth goes to study
04:33 ogra i think i stopped being highly active there during my work on hwdb
04:33 Seveas but i'm pretty sure i've seen him far before that too
04:34 MagicFab Kyral, can you tell us since when you consider you have contributing to Ubuntu ?
04:34 ogra so mid hoary ...
04:34 Kyral My Forums registration date is about May
04:34 Kyral I believe
=== ogra notes that he starts to measure time in ubuntu releases ... is that worrying ?
04:35 Nafallo ogra: totally the way to go :-)
04:35 Seveas Join Date: 05-19-2005
04:35 Seveas Posts
04:35 Seveas Total Posts: 1,650 (8.21 posts per day)
04:35 Seveas (kyral @ forums)
04:35 ogra hehe
04:35 jsgotangco ogra, tsk tsk....
04:35 LaserJock ogra: better than Debian releases ;-)
04:35 ogra loool
04:35 jsgotangco hahaha
04:35 raphink lol
04:35 Kyral Most of my work has been in the Forums Community, specializing in the Desktop Support and Absolute Beginners Talk
forums. I have written two helper threads for the ABT Forum, Terminal For Beginners and Window Managers for Beginners
04:36 zakame hehe
04:36 Seveas I'd be happy with Kyral as member given his support work on IRC and the forums
04:36 MagicFab So that's easy to measure. Forum posts.
04:36 kjcole ogra: Sounds like the Zork Flathead calendar... warty, hoary, breezy...
04:36 Kyral I recently helped Brunellus write the Fluxbox wiki page
04:36 mako hmm.. impressive inregards to the forums.. and a quick glance over implies good qualiity
=== mako is happy with membership
04:36 Kamion MagicFab: I'm not personally convinced by post count as a measure of contribution though
=== mhz has read those 'helper threads', very illustrative
04:36 mako Kamion: yes
04:36 jsgotangco MagicFab, quantity doesnt count
04:37 MagicFab Kyral: what % of your contributions would you say are advocacy andor business related
04:37 mako Kamion: i always spot check
04:37 LaserJock Kyral has been lots of help with MOTUScience, he has 2 science package on REVU right now and he is always eager to
help
04:37 Kyral I have also helped people on campus install Ubuntu
=== mhz also read the Fluxbox wiki page and even subscribed. That was a very KISS page
04:37 Kyral MagicFab: I don't do business, I'm just a simple CS Major
04:37 MagicFab jsgotangco: well then don't, I just said it's easy to measure, never mentioned quality (tx. mhz)
04:38 Kyral They are very happy with it and were surprised that it was that easy
04:38 MagicFab Kyral: advocacy ?
04:38 crimsun Chris has been active in #ubuntu for 3+ months. I'm fairly active in that channel.
04:38 Kamion the referenced pieces of documentation seem to be pretty clear documentation for beginners, to me
04:38 Kamion MagicFab: it's not particularly easy to measure, although it is at least visible so we have something to go to
04:39 Kyral Next semester in combination with the rest of the PNYTeam I hope to deploy Edubuntu into the Potsdam NY school
district
04:39 ogra crimsun, sure thats not been longer (much longer ?)
04:39 Kamion (well, the *useful* thing isn't easy to measure :-))
04:39 nalioth Kyral does help out quite a bit on IRC, and has for some time
04:39 ogra yay
04:39 ogra ++ for edubuntu promotion
04:39 crimsun ogra: I'm fairly sure it's at the very least 3 months
04:39 Kyral But that one is still up in the air as I have to go through one of my professors who has the contacts in the district
04:39 crimsun s/fairly//
04:40 mhz Kyral: educool!
04:40 mhz :)
04:40 Kyral But an InstallFest is VERY Likely
04:40 Seveas crimsun, that's the very least, it's been 4 months more :)
=== kiko-fud [n=kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Left]
04:40 mhz Kyral: i hope you join #edubuntu after meeting
04:40 Kamion I'm happy with Kyral for membership after checking up on some of the references
=== mako nods
04:41 Kyral mhz: After the meeting I need to go to class :D
04:41 mhz Kyral: okis, then as soon as you can :)
04:41 ogra mhz, he sometimes is there ...
04:41 mhz indeed
04:41 mako alright, i'm running short on time here
04:41 Seveas ok, next up raphink
04:41 Kyral Actually I am too
04:41 raphink ok
04:41 Seveas if elmo has voted
04:41 raphink (WikiPage : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson ; Launchpad : https://launchpad.net/people/raphink )
04:41 Seveas so not yet :)
04:41 raphink I'm a 23-year-old french guy, formerly studying aeronautical engineering. I'm involved in packaging for Ubuntu, and a
MOTU Wanabee, having already been granted the right to review on the REVU system.
04:41 raphink My first contact with Ubuntu was with Warty on PPC, although I mostly used Debian Sid during the last year, before
switching to Kubuntu with Breezy.
04:41 raphink I spend a lot of time on IRC helping on #kubuntu, #ubuntu, #kubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-fr channels and more, since about
mid-. I also contributed a bit to bug fixes and translations on Rosetta.
04:42 raphink huhu
04:42 elmo ack for kyral
04:42 raphink sorry
04:42 Seveas elmo, cool
04:42 ogra welcome Kyral
04:42 Seveas Kyral, welcome!
=== Kyral smiles
04:42 Kyral now, if you will excuse me, I have to run to class :D
04:42 kjcole Kyral: Congrats
04:42 ogra go to class ....
04:42 raphink :)
04:42 raphink s/mid-/mid-october/
04:43 Kamion Kyral: BTW not entirely sure about your strategy for debugging the build-essential/PLF thing - apt-get -o
Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true is often a lot quicker
04:43 mhz Kyral: wlecome edubuntero :D
04:43 mako where is your lp page?
04:43 Seveas https://launchpad.net/people/raphink
04:43 Kyral mine?
04:43 mako no
04:43 raphink mine is where Seveas just pointed ;)
04:44 raphink (although I have posted it in my "3-line-intro" too)
04:44 mako sorry, misseed it
04:44 dholbach one thing i can say about raphink is that i was impressed that he reviewed packages on REVU and mailed the
contributors (although he was no motu yet)... i talked to siretart, to give raphink comment-rights in revu.
04:44 raphink shall I post again?
04:45 Seveas raphink, no
04:45 ogra raphink, we can scroll
04:45 mako no no,it's fine
04:45 raphink ok :)
04:45 ogra dholbach++
04:45 Seveas raphink, is indeed helpful for REVU
04:45 MagicFab raphink: since when ?
04:45 mako have long have you been doing the revue work?
04:46 raphink MagicFab: since very recently if that makes you feel comfortable ;)
04:46 raphink mako: I have been granted the review rights only a few days ago
04:46 mako right
04:46 raphink I have had packages on REVU since about 20 days i'd say
04:46 MagicFab raphink: just logging stuff ;)
04:46 Seveas raphink, that's a bit too short I'm afraid
04:46 raphink and began to be active on IRC in mid-october
04:46 MagicFab raphink: also checking if I should go MOTU
04:46 mako ok, i'd prefer a little longer term contributions in there areas personally
04:46 MagicFab ;)
04:47 raphink Seveas: I reckon it's recent contributinos
04:47 mako not much, 1-2 more meetings worth
04:47 Seveas raphink, see you in 2006 ;)
04:47 jsgotangco LOL
=== mako shrugs
04:47 mako that's not the law
04:47 raphink hehe
04:47 mako that's just my gut feelingg right now
=== MagicFab has to run
04:47 Kamion yeah, I'd tend to go with mako, although what I see so far is good
04:47 Seveas mako, but I do agree with it
04:47 mako if Kamion or elmo disagrees, that's fine too
04:47 raphink bye MagicFab
04:48 mako alright guys
=== juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:48 mako i'm coming up on a hard end to my time here
04:48 Seveas he's done good work, so in a few weeks he'll fly by
04:48 juliux hi all
=== mako nods
04:48 raphink hi juliux
04:48 Seveas there's 3 more to go
04:48 ogra so speed up ...
04:48 MagicFab I'd like this question to be asked to all members: since when have you been contributing. Just want to understand this
better. Will review the logs.
04:48 raphink there's just the fact that it's a funny situation to be granted review rights without being a member, but if that's
alright ;)
=== ogra fears the yellow mako
04:49 mako i have 9 more minutes
04:49 Seveas ok, next up kjcole
04:49 Seveas 3 line intro please
=== MagicFab gotta go - cheers to all
04:49 kjcole Summary:
04:49 Seveas cya MagicFab
=== MagicFab is now known as MagicFab_away
I'm a co-author for the Edubuntu Cookbook (WIP), and working at a university exclusively for deaf students, am
04:49 kjcole involved with the Accessibility Team (and trying to involve students and faculty here). I've contributed several bug
reports on Launchpad. Last May, I helped run an InstallFest with Ubuntu as the distro of choice. I helped run a local
Software Freedom Day event. I'm now the Washington, DC LoCo Team leader/contact (replacing Paul Flint
04:49 kjcole s switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I also worked on LTSP.org's wiki at UBZ.
04:50 Seveas kjcole, sounds cool
04:50 hno73 I can confirm that kjcole has been doing good work on the Accessibility Team
04:50 kjcole (And, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinCole and https://launchpad.net/people/kjcole since those questions come up a lot
here.)
04:50 ogra kjcole, is a active edubuntu contributor ....
04:50 Kamion first line cut off at "(replacing Paul Flint"
04:50 jsgotangco same here
04:50 Seveas your wikipage is a bit incomplete it seems
04:51 mako well, it's not bad, but it's doesn't represent all that you've contributed :0
04:51 jsgotangco he's relatively new but he's been focused on stuff
04:51 kjcole int). We've gotten some local businesses switched to Ubuntu, and have installed it in two local public libraries. I
also worked on LTSP.org's wiki at UBZ.
04:51 mako there are some quite significant pieces of docs in there
04:52 ogra the edubuntu cookbook is *very* significant
04:52 Seveas the freenx howto is a bit redundant :)
=== mhz has seen a lot kjcole around interacting in IRC and AT
04:52 jsgotangco ogra, where is it located at this time btw?
04:52 ogra jsgotangco, you should know :P
04:52 jsgotangco ogra, oh right...yes...
04:52 ogra heh
04:52 kjcole ogra: Elkner and I have set up weekly meetings to work on the Cookbook. Making good progress.
04:53 ogra cool
04:53 mako kjcole: very excellent
04:53 mako any testimonials?
04:53 ogra i'd like to look over it for the tech POV ... but that doesnt belong here
04:53 jsgotangco well he did took over the cookbook from me....
04:53 jsgotangco (when i started with my new job)
04:54 mhz mako: kjcole has been very commited to edubuntu
04:54 ogra he was very active in the ltsp BOFs at montreal
=== mako nods
04:55 jsgotangco his experience with AT has been helping the newly formed AT team
=== mako is happy with kjcole as a member for the documentation work alone
04:55 mako it's impressive
04:55 hno73 he makes good contributions in discussions on accessibility
04:55 mako oh, and acccessibility
04:55 mhz we need kjcole
04:55 Kamion mm, right, sorry I've been quiet, I've been lost in the huge pile of documentation ;-)
04:55 mhz hehehehe
04:55 Seveas Kamion, that's a good sign :)
04:56 mako alright guys, 3 minutes for me
04:56 ogra vote !!
04:56 Seveas Kamion, elmo any verdict on kjcole ?
04:56 Kamion yeah, I'm happy
04:56 Seveas cool, that's 2
04:56 ogra elmo ?
04:57 elmo ack
04:57 Kamion NEXT
04:57 Kamion Steve Kowalik
04:57 Seveas cool, welcome kjcole
04:57 StevenK Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SteveKowalik
04:57 ogra welcome kjcole
04:57 Seveas StevenK,
I'm 24 years old, and have been a Debian developer since August of 2001. I have done 12 or so merges of universe
04:57 StevenK packages, and have been helping on #ubuntu-motu with technical questions as well. My immediate plans for Ubuntu
include becoming an MOTU to help with the merge until the UVF, and fixing up xemacs, since at the moment, its a little
broken, and unusable for my purposes.
=== mako is familiar with steve's work from debian
04:57 kjcole Thanks. When can I expect the secret decoder ring and X-ray vision glasses in the mail? ;-)
04:57 ogra dholbach, asked me for:
04:57 Seveas StevenK, just a note: you don't have to be a motu to help
04:57 ogra <dholbach> I was very glad to see StevenK 1) learning the different workflows in the motu team so quickly and 2)
helping other MOTU hopefuls, since he knew part of the story as a DD already"
04:58 StevenK Seveas: Of course not.
04:58 Kamion kjcole: could you propose yourself for the ubuntumembers team in LP please?
https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join
04:58 mhz kjcole: edubuntu people rock!
04:58 mako StevenK: how long have you been hanging around these parts?
04:58 StevenK mako: Not long enough? :-)
04:58 ogra Seveas, see the dholbach quote
04:58 ogra 2) especially
04:58 StevenK mako: It hasn't been long. A few weeks is rough guess.
04:59 mako StevenK: cool, lets put this off for a couple more then if that's alright
04:59 mako StevenK: cool to see you around here :)
04:59 StevenK Couple more weeks, or meetings?
04:59 Seveas twice as many weeks as meeting :)
04:59 Seveas but i'd say 2 meeting should do
05:00 mako probably a couple meetings to be fair
05:00 raphink that seems mathematically correct Seveas ;)
05:00 Kamion shrug, I don't have a problem either way since Steve's been doing lots of Debian work for ages (and thereby
effectively contributing to Ubuntu if you want to look at it that way)
=== mako nods
05:00 ogra Kamion++
05:00 Kamion but if we want to defer for fairness to other folks, that's fine too
05:00 mako we have said we'd taken debian work as a form of indirect contribution
05:00 mhz Kamion: very important point
05:01 ogra elmo, any opinion ?
=== mako has not objections to steve either
05:01 Kamion the only caveat to the above is making sure people know the ropes and are happy to stay around
05:01 elmo I don't mind either
05:01 Kamion (trying to avoid Debian's problem of lots of inactive people, really)
05:02 Kamion Steve's been in Debian for years though so I figure he has some degree of staying power
05:02 ogra was that a vote ?
05:02 mako StevenK: does that sound OK?
05:02 StevenK Um, there was a conclusion reached?
05:02 mako StevenK: you gonna stay around?
05:02 Kamion that was the least conclusive vote EVAH
05:02 Seveas :)
05:02 mako StevenK: feel like you know the ropes?
05:03 StevenK mako: I'm planning on sticking around, anyway.
05:03 mako StevenK: if you're alright committing now, i think we're happy approving you for membership
05:03 StevenK mako: I'm getting there quickly.
05:03 mako cool
05:03 ogra mako, he helps and teaches MOTU hopefulls, seems he knows the ropes
05:03 mako killer
05:03 mako alright,
05:03 mako i am overdue alright
05:03 Kamion right, StevenK++ since we know and trust him from elsewhere
05:03 mako was ther eone more
05:03 Seveas yes, zyga
05:03 Kamion azeem was the last
05:03 zyga hi
05:03 StevenK Hell, I wrote a package checker. That implies I know packaging. :-)
05:03 Kamion oh, zyga
05:03 mako two more than!
05:03 zyga Zygmunt Krynicki 23, freelance programmer
05:03 mako StevenK: i'm familiarr with it
05:04 Kamion elmo: I'll take "I don't mind either" as a yes
05:04 zyga I've been here befor a month ago, since then I've been active in -desktop team
05:04 StevenK Thanks for the approval, though.
05:04 ogra so may we say welcome StevenK ?
05:04 ogra :)
05:04 elmo Kamion: ok ;)
=== bhuvan [n=bhuvan@59.92.40.105] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
05:04 ogra yeah
05:04 zyga I've got an (almost) fully impolemented spec, for command-not-found, together with mvo's help
05:04 Seveas welcome StevenK then :)
05:04 mhz StevenK: welcome!
05:04 mako alright guys, im two hours late to work already
05:04 StevenK Thanks!
05:04 mako i am going to run
05:04 Seveas mako, :(
05:04 StevenK I might run, too.
05:04 zyga I'm also working with pitti on .desktop files (mainly patches to code on my side)
05:05 Kamion mako: seeya
05:05 StevenK Considering it's 3am.
05:05 Seveas mako, have fun at work, seeya next time
05:05 zyga I've been active on the translation arena
05:05 mako please go ahead
05:05 zyga as well as local (ubuntu.pl) arena
05:05 Kamion ok, sorry everyone, but we just became inquorate - we can go through people and mako can catch up later to complete
approvals
05:05 zyga I still need to devote more time for motu ruby
05:05 Seveas mako, I'll e-mail you the relevant log
05:05 Seveas (for zyga/azeem)
05:05 mako if you guys come to consensus, i give mhz permission to install a bot to pester me ever 5 minutes until i answer one
way or another
05:05 zyga I guess that's it, the rest is on my profile page
05:06 kjcole As it is 11:00 AM, and I'm theoretically working for my office... I'm outa here. Thanks again. TTYL.
=== StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Sleeeeep!"]
05:06 zyga I'm happy to answer any questions you may have
05:06 Kamion mvo: around?
05:06 ogra ciao kjcole
05:06 azeem we can just defer me to the next meeting, no problem
05:06 mvo Kamion: yes
05:06 Seveas azeem, rock
05:06 mhz mako: mean me or mdz?
05:06 Kamion mvo: opinions on zyga?
05:06 mako-pumpkin mhz: you
05:06 mako-pumpkin later
05:06 mhz bye
05:06 Seveas .desktop + gettext sounds cool
05:07 mvo I'm happy with zyga contribution, he did a lot of good work on cmd-not-found spec
05:07 mvo +1 from me on membership
05:07 ogra he pushes me to inally make hwdb gettextable, so ++ from here ...
05:07 ogra *finally
05:07 zyga oh right :)
05:07 zyga I need to send you that :)
05:07 mvo very active on various fronts :)
05:07 zyga I keep forgetting ;P
05:08 ogra me too, me too
05:08 ogra :)
05:08 zyga oh no actually, you need that bzr branch, right?
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:08 ogra yup
05:08 zyga k
05:08 ogra but its on my todo for this week
05:08 ogra (officially)
05:09 Kamion Scope
05:09 Kamion This idea touches nearly every single package from universe and some packages in main.
05:09 Kamion ^-- concerning ...
05:09 Kamion (we generally try REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to avoid touching the whole of universe for anything at all)
05:10 zyga Kamion: that's for the future :-)
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:10 pitti Hi
05:10 zakame hi pitti
05:10 Kamion zyga: just logging something I perceive as insanity now rather than later :)
05:10 zyga Kamion: it might be implemented for dapper+1 as a test run. I won't have enough time to finish it before
05:10 Kamion but you seem to be contributing all over the place anyway and you've been around for some time, so I have no problem
saying yes
05:10 zyga Kamion: and it needs some good understanding of how updated langpacks work out
05:11 pitti zyga> So far I worked with Zygmunt with translation-related things; we discussed some improvements and some ideas
about enhancing langpacks/rosetta
05:11 pitti and I was really impressed by his work for LangpacksLocales
05:11 pitti he provided patches, tests, etc.
05:11 pitti I would be glad to see him as a member
05:12 Kamion ok, works for me, thanks
05:12 Kamion elmo?
05:12 elmo yeah, ack
05:12 pitti (sorry for being late; I'm still not used to the rotation)
05:12 Kamion pitti: you and me both, I think it's more shuffling than rotation
05:12 Seveas cool, mhz, start the mako-ping-bot ;)
05:12 mhz hehehehe
05:12 Kamion Michael Banck
05:13 Seveas Kamion, which brings us to the last item
05:13 Kamion another long-time Debian guy
05:13 Seveas azeem didn't mind being defered
05:13 zyga Yah
05:13 Kamion ok, that would be simpler
=== zyga lost one line and was kept waiting for something already there :)
05:13 Seveas so next is scheduling
05:13 zyga thanks
05:13 jsgotangco i gotta sleep cacth you guys later
05:13 Seveas I received a total of zero seggestions on a new CC schedule
05:13 pitti congrats, zyga, and welcome
05:14 zyga thanks :))
05:14 Seveas which is a bit less than expected :)
05:14 Kamion Seveas: and again we've missed mako, d'oh
05:14 Seveas Kamion, shall I just do this via E-mail for the next meeting and pester people to reply?
05:14 Kamion personally I have no idea what mako's schedule is nowadays (since he isn't working for Canonical any more)
05:14 elmo we should set up a list, and organize it by email
05:14 ogra lets do the scheduling at the beginning next time, so he can intervene
05:14 Kamion Seveas: I think mailing the four of us would be moderately useful, yes, and what elmo said about a list
05:15 Kamion shall I poke jdub about that?
05:15 elmo nah, mail RT
05:15 elmo I can do that these days
05:15 Kamion 'k
05:15 Seveas ubuntu-cc@lists I guess?
05:15 Seveas or cummonity-council@lists
=== Kamion was thinking community-council@ or ubuntu-council@
05:15 Seveas well, with the o and u swapped
05:16 Seveas I'd prefer community-council@
05:16 elmo I don't much care; I'll create whichever I'm told
05:16 Seveas hehe
05:16 elmo but anyway, since we can't organize the schedule now - is there anything else?
05:16 Seveas no
=== Seveas hands elmo the hammer
05:17 mhz Seveas: was mako serious on the botting issue?
05:17 elmo Kamion: good on your side?
05:17 elmo mhz: no
05:17 mhz cool
=== mhz can really be a pian in the neck if asked to :D
05:17 Seveas :)
05:17 Kamion oh, should community-council@ be publicly archived?
05:17 Seveas I'd say yes
05:17 Kamion personally I'm thinking not because we do sometimes need the facility for private discussion
05:18 elmo Kamion: I'd guess not - anything substantive that's public should be done in a more public forum
05:18 Seveas will it be 'open for the public' to subscribe?
05:18 Kamion Seveas: no
05:18 Kamion it's more along the lines of a contact address
05:18 Seveas only the 4 of you?
05:18 Kamion right
05:18 Kamion it should be possible for people to mail "the community council"
=== mhz wanted to have over 1000 mails
05:19 Seveas ok, then I'll mention it as a contact address in the report
05:19 ogra mhz, you dont want that ...
05:19 mhz hehehe
05:19 ogra there are days in have twice as much ...
05:19 mhz ogra: I love to 'delte' emais from inbox
05:19 mhz :D
05:19 Kamion and it should probably be possible for people to mail it with roughly the same expectation of privacy as they have
from mailing a person (i.e. some)
05:19 ogra (normally its aroud 3-400)
05:19 Seveas Kamion, can I/ogra/dholbach/smurf as active CC-meeting-followers subscribe or is it strictly the four of you?
05:20 elmo Seveas: it's a contact address for the CC
05:20 Kamion elmo: RTed
05:20 elmo so it should be limited to the CC
05:20 Seveas ok
05:20 elmo IMO
05:20 elmo Kamion: thanks
05:21 Kamion Seveas: as elmo says, wider discussion can be held on other fora (e.g. sounder@) or people can be cc'ed for input on
specific issues
05:21 jsgotangco sounder is good
05:21 Seveas OK, then that'll be all I guess
05:21 Seveas I'm going to make and eat dinner and then write the summary for {devel,sounder,cc,fridge}
05:21 Kamion I don't mean to be exclusionary here, I don't expect there will be lots of stuff there, but a contact address is
getting increasingly required
05:22 Kamion and in cases of dispute resolution other people may very well want it to be limited-circulation
05:22 Kamion ok, I think we're done, thanks all
05:22 robotgeek later
05:22 Seveas later all
05:23 zakame yay
05:23 Seveas 2 weeks from now, at a time to be discussed :)MeetingLogs/CC_2005-12-06 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:21:06 by localhost)