10:00 Kamion ok, I guess we might as well start going through the bits of the agenda that don't
require voting, anyway
10:01 Kamion Malone migration
10:01 Kamion vuntz: here?
10:01 elmo he's on his way
10:01 mako greetings!
10:01 Kamion (vuntz said to me earlier that he might not be here)
10:01 Kamion ah, great
10:01 vuntz Kamion: yes
10:01 ogra yay, mako
10:01 Kamion hi mako
10:01 segfault hi
10:01 GnuKemist mako howdy
10:01 Kamion vuntz: personally, I tend to agree that this is a TB item
10:01 bddebian GnuKemist: good nick :-)
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=== mako catches up with the agneda
10:02 vuntz Kamion: well, I'm okay to do this on a TB meeting :-)
10:02 GnuKemist bddebian thanx =)
10:02 vuntz mark told me CC or TB, so I choose CC ;-)
10:02 Kamion vuntz: that said, ultimately it's more Canonical/Launchpad management, which
neither the CC nor the TB necessarily have jurisdiction over ;-)
10:02 vuntz right
10:02 vuntz and I feel this is one of the issue, btw
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it's perhaps worth saying that, with the amount of man-years that've been put into
10:03 Kamion Launchpad, it *is* justifiably important to Canonical to get it all actually being
used at some point
10:03 vuntz I totally agree
10:03 Kamion and I think without a sizeable project using it, it won't get the user attention
it needs to get its problems fixed
10:03 vuntz the problem I'm seeing is that the community was not asked when migration should
happen
10:03 mako are we discussingwhat to do with the first agenda item?
10:03 Kamion yeah, sort of
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10:04 elmo vuntz: did anyone from the community strenuously object or is this a
hypothetical/academic objection?
10:04 \sh vuntz: to be honest, launchpad malone migration was overdue...
10:04 vuntz it's just kind of weird to learn one week before the migration that it will happen
10:04 vuntz elmo: I wanted to do it after the dapper release
10:04 bustacap hehe yeah, I changed the doco pointing to the bugzilla the night before it
happened - I'm not even in the 'loop'
10:04 Kamion it had actually been planned for before dapper, and announced as such in public
(ish) at UDU ...
10:05 vuntz not everyone was at UDU ;-)
10:05 Kamion so it was late, rather than out-of-the-blue, I think
10:05 smurf vuntz: that's actually better than learning abot it a week afterwards ...
10:05 vuntz should I move the item to the TB?
10:05 mako it was *real* late
10:05 Kamion yeah, but it was publicised more than that I think
vuntz: the time while we used malone for launchpad, the people weren't complaining
10:05 \sh so much about difficulties...other complains were only coming from ubuntu
developers, and those issues were addressed during UBZ and are addressed via
malone now and on #launchpad
10:05 smurf ... so I wouldn't complain too strenuously. ;-)
10:05 sivang Kamion++
10:05 mako IIRC it was planned for *warty*
10:05 Kamion (hey, we were meant to be using Malone for Hoary. Never mind eh.)
10:05 mako at least in mark's mind
10:05 Kamion yeah, end of warty cycle
10:05 raphink hi all
10:06 raphink I'll be around for CC in 5 mins
10:06 jpatrick hello raphink
10:06 vuntz I'm not challenging the decision, just the way it was taken
10:06 Kyral raphink: its now ;P
10:06 \sh "we used malone for universe" even
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10:06 vuntz from a community point of view, it kind of sucked, imho
10:06 sivang \sh: :)
10:06 mako vuntz: i see what you mean
10:06 raphink well i just have to do something quick so I'll join
10:06 raphink count me in :)
10:06 vuntz I'd like to fix this for the future
=== raphink is Raphael Pinson
10:06 Kamion FWIW, the Soyuz migration is happening this week ...
10:06 mako i think the problem is that many of us that are more involved in this had taken
this move for granted for YEARS
10:06 freeflying_ raphink: hi
10:07 jjesse what is soyuz?
10:07 Kamion although that ought to not affect people so visibly, only uploaders
10:07 Kamion jjesse: replacement for katie
10:07 sivang Kamion: shh :)
10:07 Kyral next question: What is Katie ;P
vuntz: we also have to balance the timing of the announcement with expectations -
10:07 elmo we don't want to announce a move for a certain date way in advance, only to find
as we get closer we're not ready
10:07 Kamion Kyral: archive management
10:07 sivang Kyral: one of elmo's gfs
10:07 mako Kyral: archive maintaince software
10:07 Kyral Kamion: I know :P
10:07 sivang Kyral: ;-)
10:07 Kyral Kamion: I was expecting it from jjesse ;P
10:07 minghua hi freeflying_, glad you make it
10:07 mdke evening
10:07 mako vuntz: ok..
10:07 Bonzodog evening:)
10:07 GnuKemist mdke hey
10:07 freeflying_ minghua: thx
10:07 mako has this meeting officially started?
10:08 Bonzodog I believe so
10:08 \sh and thinking about soyuz landing...that is a very hard..to say goodbye to katie
10:08 mdke mako, looks like it to me
10:08 kjcole vuntz: It did just seem to suddenly "happen". (It didn't bother me, but I was
also a wee bit surprised. My reaction was more like "Really? Wow! Cool!")
vuntz: so while the final date of migration was only announced with a short lead
10:08 elmo time, I think the fact that migration to malone was going to be the way forward
sooner or later, was reasonably well publicised
10:08 vuntz elmo: my point is "it was announced and community was not involved in the
decision"
10:08 elmo vuntz: dude, that's not true
in the case of Soyuz, my feeling's that the (non-uploader) community won't notice
10:08 Kamion or care, and hopefully I think the plan's for uploads still to happen through
upload.ubuntu.com so I suspect only a few core developers will really notice the
difference
10:08 elmo vuntz: there was no major community reaction
10:08 mako elmo: i think vuntz has a point
10:08 vuntz elmo: dude
10:09 elmo if there had been, and we'd forced ahead anyway, then I think you'd have more of a
point
10:09 vuntz elmo: I can't look at my bugs ;-)
10:09 elmo vuntz: err, why not?
10:09 elmo mako: sure, not saying he doesn't
10:09 vuntz elmo: it's a lot harder to triage now
10:09 mako there are number of decisions like malone, soyuz, etc that have been goals we
(speaking as canonical and early ubuntu people) have taken for granted
10:09 vuntz that's a big regression for people
10:09 vuntz but that's not the point of the item in the agenda
10:09 mako and that certain people in the community may (rightfully?) felt cut out of
10:10 mako at the *very least* we should identify those other long-term goals that are sort
of things that have been here since the beginning
10:10 mako and document those
10:10 jjesse is there a place that shows these "goals"
10:10 vuntz elmo: I would have pushed harder to delay the migration if I knew it would happen
so soon
10:10 mako jjesse: no, that's my point
10:10 mako jjesse: and getting pretty close to my first suggestion :)
10:10 LaserJock but how would you include the community? Have a poll?
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10:10 Kamion LaserJock: it has to be a little more informed than that
10:10 earobinson LaserJock, why not use meetings?
10:10 \sh and to regard some decisions....if sabdfl said, we will make it this way, it's the
law...even if he's wrong^Wright
10:11 Kamion gauging informed reaction rather than a straight yay/nay
10:11 kjcole mako: Sort of a "Book of Genesis" of what begat what and when. Wiki?
10:11 mako announcements, meetings, discussions
10:11 vuntz \sh: right, but this needs to be publicized
10:11 Kamion wiki.launchpad.canonical.com has a lot of what's in the pipeline
infrastructure-wise
10:11 vuntz it was not
10:11 mako this isn't sabfdl forcing something
10:11 bustacap lambert, perhaps announcing in the official doco and on the Ubuntu dot com news
section along with the mailing lists..
=== sivang was surprised this the transition didn't happen before.
10:11 mako there are other examples of that
10:11 Kyral send it over the Announce ML
10:11 LaserJock my point is that it is easy to say the community needs to be involved, but what
would that mean? A CC vote?
10:11 mako LaserJock: if it came to that
10:11 mako i don't think that's the issue
10:12 \sh mako: I forgot the "would"
10:12 elmo btw, the soyuz migration is very different
10:12 mako i think vuntz just feels like there are some important decisions that are being
taken without involving everyone they effect
10:12 Kamion personally I really don't want the CC ending up voting on whether or not to move
some piece of infrastructure to Launchpad or not
10:12 elmo as virtually nothing changes from a developer perspective
10:12 vuntz it's not about voting
10:12 Kamion elmo: yeah, that's what I was saying above too
10:12 vuntz it's about telling the community what will happen
10:12 vuntz so the community can at least give some feedback
10:12 mako vuntz: right, it's about deliberation and community involvement :)
10:12 LaserJock ok, well that makes sense
10:12 Kyral Why don't we use the Announce ML more?
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10:13 mako alright, i've got two proposals
10:13 bustacap Kyral, the migration was in the devel ML..
10:13 earobinson Kyral, has a point
10:13 Kamion Kyral: we do use it a fair bit, and -devel-announce too; you have to balance the
amount of traffic that people actually want to read
10:13 mako (1) canonical people try to come up with a list of other of these assumed
trajectory items
10:13 \sh mako: but we said many times, that we will move from bugzilla to malone for
main...at least since I was starting and I think many months before
10:13 mako it's s small list
10:13 vuntz \sh: for me, it was long-term item
10:13 mako (2) vuntz comes up with a list of concrete suggestions for how this could be
avoided and when we choose to follow up on those solutions
10:13 bustacap vuntz, are you a reader of the devel-announce list?
10:13 vuntz \sh: like, in one or two years
10:14 Kyral how many "normal" (non-devel) users subscribe to the -devel-announce?
10:14 vuntz bustacap: yes
10:14 bustacap Kyral, that's my point..
10:14 Kamion Kyral: how many normal users care about the sorts of things announced there?
10:14 vuntz mako: yes, I can handle (2) if people agree
10:14 mako vuntz: why don't you do 2, work with us if you want, and then we present something
at the next meeting
10:14 bustacap I think the migration was not only a devel issue
10:14 Kyral Kamion: if I hear the issue right, its about informing the community yes?
10:14 vuntz mako: sure
10:14 \sh vuntz: it's a nightmare to use two different systems for bug tracking
10:14 vuntz it's okay for me
10:14 vuntz \sh: I understand
10:14 mako i don't doubt that there are things we could do better
10:15 mako in this regard
10:15 seb128 \sh: it's better than using malone instead of bugzilla though :p
maybe in the future will have a more straight forward ways to track such or at
10:15 sivang least related things. (given launchpad changes are not so much of an 'ubuntu'
policy maybe) https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/distro-policy-tracker
10:15 mako but part of the problem is that i don't think we even thought this would be
controversial
10:15 mako because *we* have seem it on the radar for so long
10:15 mako vuntz: but i think it's ok because ther is a small number of such things :)
10:15 seb128 mako: right, but affects directly people workflow
10:16 sivang mako: community people who have been tracking the project, saw it all along as
well, just as \sh noted
10:16 vuntz I was also surprised that nobody answered my concerns on ubuntu-devel about this
Kyral: yeah, but I think it's a bit more than "we should post our laundry lists on
10:16 Kamion -announce", since as mako says there's the question of untangling what
subconscious things we actually do need to tell people in advance
10:16 bustacap vuntz, would the issue be that it was not announced in more mainstream areas of
the community?
10:16 mako seb128: excactly
vuntz: regarding the cxx transition for breezy, where universe maintainers used
10:16 \sh bugzilla as well (and also for the merging stuff) it was quite confusing when to
look at bugzilla and use malone for normal bug reporting and tracking for
universe...for the developers (at least me) it was a nightmare
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10:16 seb128 mako: I was a bit disapointed too than nobody replied to vuntz on the list to be
honest
kyral, bustacap, how many "normal" (non-devel) users filed bugs in either
10:16 kjcole system? (I honestly don't know, but I'd guess most filing bugs would read some of
the afore mentioned lists already.)
10:16 anandaputra Hi all
=== mako will admit he's behind on -devel mail
10:16 seb128 mako: and that the decision has been made without the distro team (but that's
probably not the topic atm)
10:16 bustacap kjcole, I file a fair few ;)
10:16 vuntz bustacap: it should have been announced before so that people could give feedback
10:16 mako seb128: well, it's related
10:17 LaserJock I did reply because I was thinking "It's about time", but that's just my opinion
10:17 bustacap vuntz, OK.
10:17 Kyral kjcole: the way I understand it, BugZilla = Main, Malone = Universe, Multiverse
10:17 mako seb128: please, work with vuntz to come up with a recommendation for how we can
fix it
10:17 jjesse EXIT
10:17 jjesse sorry bout that
10:17 LaserJock *I didn't reply
10:17 Kamion yes, I think the announcement should have been a bit further in advance
10:17 seb128 mako: "communicate" ... :)
10:17 mako seb128, vuntz: and feel free to send it to the CC before hand so we can get
feedback
10:17 seb128 mako: but sure
10:17 Kamion one of the problems was that we didn't actually have a date for it until quite
close to the time
10:17 kjcole bustacap, but then you come to CC meetings too. So, you're "up" on some of the
info.
10:17 mako seb128: if *only* it were that easy :)
10:17 anandaputra sorry i'm late..
10:17 bustacap haha kjcole, I'm here for membership.. :)
10:17 seb128 mako: saying 2 days before "we switch friday" is not really good communication
10:18 mako seb128: i tend to agree
10:18 bustacap but I do like this meeting..
10:18 Kyral seb128++
10:18 mako seb128: and a policy of waiting more than 2 days is probably a very sane
recommendation that i personally would be fully in support of
10:18 kjcole kyral: Ah, I didn't start actively participating til UBZ, and then got the
impression everything was moving to Malone in a matter of weeks.
10:18 seb128 right
10:18 bustacap kjcole, it's a shame it's on now, I am supposed to be on the road driving to work
now - but I organised a late start at work for today..
10:18 Kamion I'm not sure we can do much more here
10:19 mako alright, if you are not speaking on the topic at hand, can you please take
messages into a query
10:19 mako this is a busier meeting than normal
10:19 mako and we want to let the europeans get to sleep :)
10:19 vuntz seb128 and I will work on propositions on how to enhance communication for such
things
10:19 Kamion possibly worth bringing up the existence of the launchpad-users list, BTW
10:19 Kyral and us ESTers to get dinner ;P
10:19 mako excellent
10:19 sivang mako: please do :)
10:19 \sh Kamion: any statistics if there is a decrease or increase of bugreports since
malone migration? I think we can only see those issues on plain numbers
10:19 raphink ty mako ;)
10:19 vuntz I'm happy with this :-)
=== Bonzodog makes it 21:19 UTC in Ireland
10:19 sivang Kamion: good point
10:20 mako Bonzodog: that's not on the topic at hand :P
10:20 mdke the existence of launchpad-users has shown that problems can get addressed quickly
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10:20 mdke the lack of documentation for malone was raised and resolved in a few days
10:20 mako alright
10:20 mako vuntz: so, you raised this issue.. if you're happy with this until next meeting or
until you have a proposal, i'd be happy to move on :)
10:21 vuntz yes, we can move one
10:21 vuntz on
10:21 mako excellent :)
10:21 mako UDSF
10:21 Kamion \sh: no idea
10:21 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: Yes
10:21 mako who owns this?
=== Kyral puts on a helmet
10:21 Kyral KB
10:21 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: I do
10:21 mako excellent
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10:22 earobinson As I understand Kingbahamut|Werk has said he has no problems with any of the docs
being ported to the wiki
10:22 earobinson correct?
10:22 Kyral what about vice versa?
10:22 Kingbahamut|Werk earobinson: no I dont
10:22 mako basically, this is a proposal to start moving documents from the forums into the
wiki?
10:22 Kyral yah
10:22 mdke not quite
10:22 Burgwork mako, the concern more is a split of resources
10:22 Kingbahamut|Werk The USDF is an archive of existing forum data, thats its purpose
10:23 mdke a wiki exists to which documents are moved from the forum
10:23 anandaputra Sorry i'm late.. About membership, are they still opening?
10:23 mdke it's not the Ubuntu wiki
10:23 manicka it's not a competing documentation project
10:23 earobinson anandaputra, hasent started yet
10:23 mako anandaputra: we'll get there
10:23 manicka it is an archive of forum data
10:23 anandaputra mako, ok.. :)
10:23 bustacap what is 'data'?
10:23 bustacap all of the posts?
10:24 Kyral Howtos, commonly answered questions...
10:24 Kyral I think
10:24 manicka key information posted in the threads
10:24 Burgwork afaics, there is nothing in the USDF that cannot find a home in the ubuntu wiki
10:24 earobinson I think that the docs are just another fork, like another distro both can use the
data
10:24 Kyral wasn't the issue that Forums things met with resistance in the Wiki?
10:25 Kingbahamut|Werk There has been that in the past Kyral
10:25 mdke Kyral, no, far from it
10:25 Burgwork Kyral, no, they just were not worked on
10:25 Kyral okay..
10:25 Kyral Just wanna get my facts clear
10:25 \sh Burgwork: depends on the license of the published forum data...
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10:25 mako ok..
10:25 mdke can someone say what the issue for the CC is here?
10:25 mako lets focus here
10:25 Kingbahamut|Werk forum possesses no license
10:25 mako mdke: excactly :)
10:26 mako i've read the proposal
10:26 manicka If the data was worked into the wiki it wouldn't an archive of the forums anymore,
that's its purpose
10:26 mako i have two questions:
10:26 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: ask, capn.
10:26 mako (1) what the is the state of any technical implementation that would need to be
done in order to make this happen?
10:26 mako what needs to happen and who is going to do it and when?
10:27 anandaputra brb..
10:27 mdke mako, you've missed the point slightly. There is no proposal. There is a wiki, at
doc.gwos.org which has howtos from the forum on it.
10:27 vuntz (that's more than 2 questions ;-))
10:27 mako (2) sabdfl apparently asked for a joint docteam/forums proposal.. this seems very
udsf.. are there concerns or open issues from the docteam?
10:27 mako vuntz: ssh :)
10:27 Kyral Could I suggest a team that looks through the forums on a regular basis and "picks
up" howtos for the Wiki?
10:27 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: 2, not as far as I know. The collection of the documentation is there to be
collected at will bot those who wish to collec it
10:27 manicka there is no proposal to migrate
10:28 Kingbahamut|Werk bot = by
afaics however there is no open issue. Some members of the documentation team have
10:28 mdke expressed our sadness that a separate wiki was required, rather than using the
Ubuntu wiki, where we'd attempted to make it easy for forum members to contribute
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10:28 mdke but, it quickly became clear that that is not an option
10:29 Kingbahamut|Werk mdke: we dont want that sorrow , but I understand the complication
10:29 mako mdke: ok.. so there *was* controversy that was laid to rest
10:29 Kamion Kyral: (in general the first step is to assemble a group of people wanting to do
it, rather than to propose a team)
10:29 manicka most o fthe work on UDSf is done by a small group of people
10:29 Kyral Kamion: I would...
I'm just going over the meeting logs from last time, the issue then seemed to be
10:29 elmo a) duplication/waste of documenting resources, b) the official forums pointing at
the unofficial udsf, instead of the wiki, c) licensing stuff
10:29 mako my position tends to be that the CC should really only get involved in a project
when there is a conflict
10:29 manicka not by lots of users
10:29 Burgwork mako, I am resigned to the existance of the USDF. Doens't mean I like it or I
think it needs to exist
10:29 mdke mako, that is correct
10:29 earobinson Kamion, so would I
10:29 mako ubuntu is not a permission-based system
10:29 mdke i have the same opinion as Burgwork
10:29 mako or world
10:30 mako people do good work, create useful resources, and that's good
10:30 jjesse i echo mdke and burgwork
10:30 Kamion what mako said; if you're all getting along and doing stuff, er, keep at it :)
10:30 Burgwork however I recognize the realities that USDF is nicer to edit than our Moin based
wiki
10:30 bustacap surely the Howtos on the USDF can be assimilated into the Ubuntu wiki
10:30 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: that was the intent, an archival of data useful to the user
10:30 earobinson bustacap, no one has said they cant
10:30 mdke bustacap, it takes twice as much work: docs go to two places, not one
10:30 manicka they are there to be used by anyone
10:31 Bonzodog and the data is directly from the forums, almost uneditied, apart from grammatical
errors
10:31 Kyral the very nature of the Wiki is that anyone can add to it
10:31 Bonzodog it is not guaranteed to work
10:31 bustacap perhaps new howtos should be only drawn up in the Ubuntu wiki and the forums left
only as a forum for help questions not help documentation..
10:31 Bonzodog as the how-to's are very much one persons discovered method of doing things
10:32 Kamion bustacap: in reality, I don't see that it's in our power to restrict where people
write documentation
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10:32 Burgwork USDF really actually grows out of the forums as seperate from Ubuntu thing
10:32 robotgeek Bonzodog: so are several articles on the Ubuntu wiki
10:32 mdke Kamion is quite right
10:32 mdke there is no issue here for the CC
10:32 bustacap Kamion, not a restriction but a good set of guidelines..
10:32 Kamion we can recommend all we like, but UDSF grew up because people found that the wiki
wasn't fulfilling their needs
10:33 manicka no that's not true
10:33 mdke yes that is right
10:33 mako alright
10:33 Kamion ok, that's one reason anyway
10:33 earobinson I use both when I provide support, they are different styles IMO
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10:34 mako ok.. so i tend to agree that there's no issue here
10:34 mdke earobinson, that's good to hear
10:34 mako except i tend to agree that it would be really nice if we didn't split resources
or communities
10:34 Kingbahamut|Werk aggreed mdke
10:34 mako the latter is actually more troubling to me
10:34 mako i don't want there to be two doc teams
10:34 Kyral mako++
10:34 mako there are already many documents being created
10:35 bustacap one stop doco shop
10:35 mako maybe that's necessary.. but i'm not convinced it is
10:35 earobinson mako, can you see any way that It could be made easy to copy docs to the wiki and
visa versa?
10:35 Kamion it's possibly worth pointing out that the nature of human interaction means that
teams can only grow so big before they have to split in some way ...
10:35 manicka mako: there isn't two doc teams. We are not a doc project
10:35 mdke earobinson, it already is easy
10:35 mako and we've run into a long history of problems with the apparent ghettoization of
the forums
10:35 Kyral earobinson cut and paste?
10:35 Kamion 1000-person committees don't work
10:35 mako manicka: you're writing documentation
10:35 Kyral "ghettoization"?
10:35 mdke earobinson, if you go to the forum howto section, there is a sticky on how to do
it
10:35 mako Kyral: yes
10:35 Kyral ???
10:35 manicka no, i'm archiving forum data
10:35 mako like a small community of people that are cut of from the larger group
10:36 Burgwork Kyral, a divide between the forums and rest of Ubuntu
10:36 manicka I don't write any docs
10:36 Kyral ah
10:36 mako not consulted, politically disconnected
10:36 mdke manicka, copying and pasting from the forum is a doc activity that would be really
useful in the Ubuntu wiki too
10:36 mako disempowered
10:36 mako etc
10:36 Burgwork manicka, you are archive docs, thus you are creating docs
10:36 Kamion mako: more like a large community of people cut off from the smaller group ;-)
10:36 mako Kamion: true enough
10:36 earobinson mdke, then there is no problem about spliting like mako said if it is easy
10:36 mako manicka: there are many ways to create technical documentation
10:36 manicka I disagree on that Burgwork
10:36 mako and the docteam is open to all of them
10:36 Kyral there is a general feeling like that in the Forums between some peopel
10:37 mako Kyral: yes, that's my point
10:37 robotgeek earobinson: the only issue is that someone has to do the same work over and over
again
10:37 mako and my gut feeling is that the way to fix that is not to have the forums
documentation creation project and then the main project documentation project
10:37 Kyral mako it should go smashy (and yes I use little language for laughs :P)
10:37 bustacap the USDF folk should schedule a meeting with the ubuntu-doc team on IRC and
discuss the issues
10:37 Kyral bustacap++
10:37 mako i think that would be wonderful
10:37 vuntz agree
10:37 earobinson but mdke said it is easy to copy docs back and forth, robotgeek to so you dont
have to do the work 2 times
10:37 mako that's just me speaking though
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10:37 Kingbahamut|Werk bustacap: we have and do still discuss
10:37 mako Kingbahamut|Werk: good
10:38 mako but as far as this issues goes
10:38 mako i don't think there is a CC issue unless there is a conflict
10:38 mako and both sides say there is not
10:38 bustacap :)
10:38 earobinson bustacap,++
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10:38 mdke let's move on
10:38 mako so please, go ahead, do good work
10:38 manicka agreed: mako
and if the USDF folks want free advice, they should look into trying to work with
10:38 mako others who are working toward the same goals (even if they're trying to get there
in different ways)
10:39 mako :)
10:39 manicka :)
10:39 Bonzodog :)
10:39 bustacap hear hear
10:39 mako Kingbahamut|Werk: thanks for writing that up
10:39 Kyral :)
10:39 raphink :)
10:39 earobinson :)
10:39 mako the method of pulling things out of the forums seems like a great project
10:39 mako i'd love to see as closely integrated into the rest of our documentation work as
possible :)
10:40 mdke me too
10:40 earobinson me 3
10:40 Kyral me 4
10:40 Bonzodog mako: feel free to have a good browse around the UDSF....
10:40 dihack !define UDSF
10:40 mdke moving on?
10:40 dihack any google bot here? :)
10:40 Kyral Ubuntu Doc Storage Facility
10:41 dihack o ic
10:41 earobinson dihack, link -> http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page
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10:42 earobinson mdke, ya I think so no problem so lets move on
10:42 mako ok..
10:42 mako for everyone that was offended
10:42 mako i was not calling the forums "ghetto" in any sort of derogatory way
10:42 manicka ok :)
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10:42 mako you can look up the term if your curious
10:42 GnuKemist mako no offense taken I'm sure
10:42 mdke lol
10:42 mdke americans...
10:42 mako well, there was some
10:43 mako because many people complained to ryan evidently :)
10:43 Kyral mako, in the words of Dash Rendar. "I am not offended, I have been offended by
professionals" :P
10:43 mako and i'm busying trying to explain myself in a query right now :)
10:43 Kyral lol
10:43 GnuKemist hehe
10:43 Bonzodog lol
10:43 licio :-)
10:43 Kyral Ryan == ?
10:43 dihack thanks guys, i planing to use ubuntu, just like ananda tell me how good ubuntu
10:43 mako i merely wanted to make the point that i wanted more communcation between the
forums, people who use the forums, and th rest of the project
10:43 mdke Kyral, forum administrator
10:43 mako and more empowerment
10:43 mako geez
10:43 Kyral mdke: which one :P
10:43 ubuntugeek yes, just here defending the ghettoization project..
10:43 mako :)
10:44 Kyral UG?
10:44 Kamion wiki licensing
10:44 Kamion (if we're done here ...)
10:44 mako please
10:44 GnuKemist hehe
10:44 Kamion mdke: I think my concern on first reading is that the detail of "why" comes last
rather than first
10:44 mdke Kamion, i was kinda hoping you guys would totally rewrite it
10:44 Kamion heh
10:45 mdke Kamion, I just chucked something down to start the ball rolling
10:45 vuntz small comment about the proposed mail: we can't do public domain everywhere
10:45 vuntz eg, I can't release my work as public domain in France
10:45 Kamion it should also specify CC-PD
10:45 vuntz (afaik)
10:45 mdke vuntz, ??
10:45 mdke you _have_ to retain copyright in what you write?
10:45 vuntz yes
10:46 vuntz well
10:46 vuntz it's about "droits moraux"
10:46 Kyral GFDL
10:46 Kamion (FWIW http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ is the text in question)
10:46 vuntz not sure it exists everywhere
10:46 Kamion Kyral: we had the licence argument last time, let's not have it again
10:46 Kyral oh sorry
10:46 Kyral lol
10:46 mdke yes
10:46 vuntz but you can say "do what you want with it"
10:46 vuntz it's similar to public domain
10:46 mdke hmm
10:46 vuntz :-)
10:47 Kamion vuntz's comment is a problem - I think it's true in Germany as well
10:47 smurf mdke: you can grant all right to everybody, but there are some rights which you
can't disclaim or give away -- but you *can* not exercise them. Same in Germany.
10:47 vuntz sorry guys, need to go
10:47 vuntz good night
10:47 earobinson bye vuntz
10:47 raphink 'night vuntz
10:47 mdke smurf, i find that quite hard to follow. Does the text of CC-PD go against that?
10:48 GnuKemist wouldn't that be waived off then if the author writes such a statement? that
he/she doesn't want to exercise any rights over the material?
10:48 Kamion personally I sorta wish we'd suggested BSD last time, since that's not that far
from "PD but without the awkward disclaimer of copyright stuff"
10:48 elmo Kamion: we can still do that
10:48 smurf mdke: I haven't actually checked
10:48 smurf Kamion: right
10:48 mdke Kamion, but I believe BSD requires relicensing as BSD, no?
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10:48 elmo but to be honest, "public domain" is easier, and better understood straing moral
rights of authorship in a small number of countries not withstanding
GnuKemist: none of us here are intellectual property lawyers (er, if somebody is,
10:48 Kamion please speak up); inventing licences or guessing at their meaning in different
countries is a bad idea if you aren't one
10:49 GnuKemist Kamion gotcha...
10:49 Kamion mdke: just like PD, yes
10:49 \sh elmo: to be more precise...in germany "public domain" means more "give it away
without any money, but copyright is mine"
10:49 Kamion elmo: yeah, unfortunately I suspect the small number of countries are significant
in terms of authorship
10:49 elmo I think we should go with "PD + (And if you can't do that, please use this
MIT/BSD/'tever [simplest] license instead)
10:49 Kamion so we probably ought to know what's going on
10:49 mdke Kamion, is that true?
=== Ubuntuser_Ba [n=Fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:49 Kamion mdke: is what true?
10:49 elmo mdke: of course it's true?
10:50 mdke Kamion, there is nothing to suggest that a user can't relicense a derivative
surely?
10:50 elmo oh, we've got cross wires
10:50 mako the PD licenses from CC are really difficult to internationalize
10:50 elmo mdke: you're talking about relicensing something under PD?
10:50 mdke elmo, yes
10:50 LaserJock how do these licenses effect doc team docs that want to use wiki material?
10:50 Kamion sorry, I should say MIT really not BSD, thanks elmo
10:50 elmo I think kamion and I are talking about the existing material
10:50 mdke oh sorry
10:50 dihack btw anyone can speak bahasa?
10:51 Kamion LaserJock: the point of using a weak licence is to make it easy for docteam to
reuse material
10:51 mdke Kamion, but the docteam relicenses their work
10:51 Kamion that's one of the reasons GPL/GFDL/whatever would be awkward - they impose extra
constraints on the docteam
10:51 mdke BSD/MIT don't allow that, afaics
10:51 Kamion mdke: relicenses from what to what?
10:51 LaserJock that's my concern
10:52 mdke Kamion, the docteam takes wiki material, and puts it in docs licensed under
GFSL/CCbySA
10:52 LaserJock I would like to take wiki material and include it in a GPL doc
10:52 mdke the BSD and MIT say, all copies and derivatives need to include the same license
The CC-PD dedication lacks something that would be a salvatory clause (as it's a
10:52 smurf license and not a contract, wording that one is a bit tricky), if it had one I'd
be reasonably comfortable with it
10:52 elmo mdke: why do the docteam need/want to do that?
mdke: other than PD, pretty much no licences allow arbitrary relicensing, but you
10:52 Kamion can *incorporate* BSD-licensed material as long as you include the copyright
notice
10:52 Kamion which hardly seems onerous to me
10:53 smurf Kamion: +1
10:53 mdke Kamion, right
10:53 Kamion what's the problem with "this document contains material released under the MIT
licence, reproduced here: <splat>"
10:53 Kamion ?
10:53 mdke elmo, more historical than anything else, afaics
10:53 Kamion so long as the licences are compatible
I like PD because it matches how I think we can justify nationalizing the current
10:53 elmo wiki content, that's the only reason I'm interested in keeping it as the
default. relicensing under a more restrictive license by the community isn't
something I'd invisaged/intended
10:53 mdke Kamion, i see no problem, but having so many licenses flying around might be a
little awkward
10:54 mako mdke: i tend to think that you are more qualified to make this deiciosn than any
of us
10:54 elmo mdke: it should only be 2/3 max?
10:54 mako mdke: from both legal positions and from wiki positions :)
10:54 elmo mdke: CC-BY-SA for the bulk, some GFDL (?) and now some MIT
10:54 Kamion one problem with MIT/BSD would be that doing it right would require a copyright
notice for every contributor
10:54 elmo any non-trivial software project is usually under at least that many licenses ;-)
10:54 mdke elmo, i dunno, we just inherited those licenses, they can be rediscussed another
time
10:54 mdke but I like PD too
10:54 Kamion so yeah, as elmo says PD would be a lot simpler
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10:55 mdke i'm slightly concerned by what smurf has said about german/french law
10:55 Kamion mako: do you have any pet lawyers we could check this with? :)
10:55 elmo Kamion: honestly, I think we should try to do that as best we can anyway
10:55 elmo Kamion: and it could also be automated
10:55 mako Kamion: i have a few :)
10:55 elmo in much the same way as we're automating the mail
10:55 elmo since wiki accounts are forever...
10:55 Kyral they are?
10:56 mdke Kyral, like diamonds
10:56 Kyral lol
10:56 elmo this draft needs a lot more work tho
10:56 mdke what are we gonna do about this?
10:56 mako mdke: better than diamonds
10:56 elmo I don't suppose anyone could volunteer to do that? I certainly don't have time
this week
10:56 bustacap ship it off to legals :)
10:56 Kamion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain has a good discussion FWIW
10:57 mdke elmo, i'll do it if you give me some indication of what you want
10:57 elmo my proposal is change it to "PD + MIT iff you can't"
mdke: I'd be far happier with a text that grants anybody who wants to use the text
10:57 smurf all nonexclusive rights, that's at least an idea that's compatible with German
copyright law ;-)
10:57 Kamion and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Donate_to_the_public_domain has a
suggestion for countries where PD doesn't work
10:58 mdke how about smurf's proposal
10:58 mdke i like that
10:58 bustacap an Ubuntu Document License ;D
10:58 Kamion "The copyright holder of this [work] allows anyone to use it for any purpose,
including unrestricted redistribution, commercial use, and modification."
=== bustacap is evil for suggesting such a thing..
10:58 smurf Kamion: that would work
10:58 Kyral lol
10:58 Kamion oh, sorry, not that bit
10:58 Kamion "I, the creator of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This
applies worldwide.
10:58 Kamion In case this is not legally possible:
10:58 Kamion I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions,
unless such conditions are required by law.
10:58 Kamion "
10:59 Kamion dunno if that's been legally vetted though
10:59 elmo that works for me
10:59 earobinson Kamion, thats looks like a good idea
10:59 bustacap hehe call it the UDL
10:59 mako ok.. i can run it by a lawyer
10:59 mdke Kamion, worksforme too
10:59 mako if you want
10:59 earobinson Do the pest we can and if not just set it free
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10:59 elmo mako: US or !?
=== Ubuntuser_Ba [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:59 mako US
10:59 Kamion mdke: I can do some other work on the draft tomorrow if you like
10:59 mako but who knows that the world beyond exists
10:59 elmo err ! ?, as in not, not omglol explanationism
10:59 mdke Kamion, that would be great
10:59 Kamion trying to change the emphasis a bit
11:00 mako alright
11:00 mako we don't need to hash this out here
Kamion: it only says, that the copyright is hold by the original author, but
11:00 \sh everyone is free to use it without any legal restrictions...that's very compatible
with the european union...until someone has more clue about european copyright
laws
11:00 mako we're 1h into this.. i'm a little worried about time :)
11:00 mako can we move on?
11:00 mdke yep, i'm happy
11:00 \sh s/hold/held/
11:00 Kyral and I'm hungry... :P
11:00 mako mdke: nice
11:00 earobinson me 2 Kyral
11:00 mdke thanks for finding that Kamion
11:01 mako alright
11:01 smurf mako: +1
11:01 mako og's comment we can skip
11:01 mako since it doesn't need to be seen by this group
11:01 mako any other non-member, non-loco business?
11:01 mako alright
11:01 GnuKemist mako any way I can speed this up?
11:01 mako guerby: we're doing this as fast as we can
11:01 mako GnuKemist: ^^
11:01 mdke GnuKemist, mail the address I noted
11:02 mako oh, you mean the shipment
11:02 GnuKemist mdke k... thanks
11:02 GnuKemist mako yes
11:02 mako info@shipit.ubuntu.com
11:02 guerby mako, hi :)
11:02 mako alright
11:02 mako guerby: tab completions :)
11:02 guerby yeah :)
=== matthew5 [n=matthew_@ip70-176-180-97.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
11:03 mako alright
11:03 mako any loco teams not on the agenda that are here
11:03 mako new ones
11:03 mako ?
11:03 mako no
11:03 mako alright members
11:03 GnuKemist unfortunately I can't stay any longer... but left testimonial for licio ... take
care everyone
11:03 Riddell jpatrick would like to go first for membership, he has to get away
11:03 GnuKemist licio break a leg buddy
11:04 mako everyone should have or should now prepare 1-3 sentences on their work on ubuntu
and where they want to tkae the project
11:04 Ubuntuser_Ba yeah!
11:04 mako Riddell: ok
11:04 anandaputra i'm ready..
11:04 manicka ok
11:04 earobinson ready
=== bustacap is Naaman Campbell
11:04 lmanul Same
11:04 bustacap right to go..
=== lmanul is Manu Cornet
11:04 earobinson (assuming I can cut and paste from my wiki page)
11:04 ogra lmanul, oh, you dropped some l's :)
=== licio is Licio Fernando
11:05 lmanul ogra, yeah, easier to tab-complete ^^
11:05 dihack wait i'm new here, here for helping ananda
11:05 manicka <-- Grant Galbraith
=== Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
11:05 earobinson well jpatrick should go first if he has to go soon ....
11:06 raphink go jpatrick go :)
11:07 Kyral go go go :P
11:07 earobinson MIA?
11:07 raphink earobinson: ?
11:07 earobinson yes?
11:08 raphink MIA?
11:08 ogra missing in action
11:08 mako sorry.. lost my connection there for a second
11:08 earobinson missing in action
11:08 raphink ogra: oh ok :)
11:08 earobinson want a cut and paste pm mako
11:08 bustacap mako, yay, we need some adjudication.. :)
11:08 mdke earobinson, he didn't leave the channel
11:08 mdke let's go dudes
=== dihack idban secandri
11:09 raphink yep
11:09 earobinson if jpatrick is not going do you want me to?
11:09 ogra so it seems jpatrick isnt around then ...
11:09 mako jpatrick: ?
11:09 mako alright
11:09 bustacap I need to head off to work soon..
11:09 raphink jpatrick: ...
11:09 mako well lets move on
11:09 earobinson ok well im really going to cut and paste from my wiki page
11:09 Kamion earobinson: ok, go
11:09 earobinson Activity
11:09 earobinson 1.
11:09 earobinson Spreading the Ubuntu spirit. I do this by showing many people the
distribution and open source programs in general. Also I give out the CDs!
11:09 earobinson 2.
11:09 earobinson I am very active on the Ubuntu forums ([WWW] Team Leader) and provide
support and focused mostly on providing support.
11:10 earobinson 3.
11:10 earobinson I have been running dapper to aid with the testing.
My name is Edward Robinson currently living in Ontario, Canada. Im a computer
11:10 earobinson science major at the University of Toronto and I have been using Linux since 2003
and Ubuntu since May 2005.
I would like to see Ubuntu grow, and more users being able to use Ubuntu problem
11:10 earobinson free. To do this I feel that One of the most important things is to support new
users, and the Ubuntu forums have played a very important role in this. I would
like to continue to become a part of this growing community, and to grow with it.
11:10 Kamion anyone like to speak up for earobinson's support skills?
11:10 Kamion s/skills/contributions/ perhaps
11:10 Kyral He has been active on the Forums..
11:10 earobinson In time I would like to get more and more involved as school and work let me, I
have worked with a lot of people on the forums like Kingbahamut|Werk and Kyral
11:11 mdke i've read a number of posts by earobinson on the forum (community related, rather
than support) and he seems very sensible
11:11 earobinson *blush*
11:11 Kyral but I haven't been on the Forums in a while
11:11 manicka earobinson is very active on the forums and gives good advice
11:11 mako earobinson: have you been contributing since last may?
11:12 earobinson I have been around for a long time
11:12 manicka as a staff member he keeps me busy with mod reports about various issues
11:12 earobinson but I really started about 6 months ago
11:12 Kamion what kind of issues?
11:12 earobinson really started to pick it up
11:12 earobinson Kamion, everything from geting posts moved to the correct forum to reporting abuse
and spam
11:12 manicka posts in incorrect forums etc
11:13 earobinson Just try to help things run good as they can
11:13 manicka and abuse and spam
11:13 earobinson https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdwardARobinson <- for anyone that wants it
=== mako has already read it
11:15 mako are there current members here who can vouch for earobinson
11:15 mako ?
11:15 Kyral I can
11:15 earobinson a couple did no?
11:15 mdke I did
11:15 mako mdke: right
11:16 mako well, 1200+ posts over 6 months counts as both significant and sustained in my
book
=== mako is happy for membership
11:16 earobinson is Kingbahamut|Werk here? Im sure he would vote for me
11:16 Kingbahamut|Werk yes I am
11:16 earobinson thanks mako
11:16 Kingbahamut|Werk and yes I would earobinson
11:16 mako Kamion, elmo: ?
11:16 Kyral earobinson++
11:17 earobinson thanks Kingbahamut|Werk
11:17 Kamion fine by me
11:17 elmo yeah, me too
11:17 mako alright thne
11:17 mako PROGRESS
11:17 earobinson and Kyral and mdke
11:17 bddebian heh
11:17 mako earobinson: welcome
11:17 mdke welcome earobinson
11:17 Kamion sorry, I usually get lost in browsing forum posts when this sort of thing comes up
:)
11:17 ogra welcome earobinson
11:17 mako was there someone else who was about to leave?
11:17 mako who is on the roster?
11:17 bustacap yeah..
11:17 Kyral drinks are on you earobinson ;P
11:17 Ubuntuser_Ba Congratulations earobinson!
11:17 earobinson thanks all
11:18 mako otherwise, we can maintain some semblance of order
11:18 mdke bustacap is up next
11:18 raphink congrats
=== kjcole blows a clarion
=== Kyral is hungry ;P
11:18 anandaputra congrats earobinson!
11:18 mdke both in terms of leaving soon, and being next on the list
11:18 Ubuntuser_Ba welcome to Ubuntu Team!
11:18 licio Congratulations earobinson :-)
11:18 mako who is bustacap?
=== bustacap is Naaman Campbell
11:18 earobinson :)
11:19 mako very recently added i see :)
11:19 elmo oh, _that's_ what humbug stands for
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11:19 mako i've heard of humbug :)
11:20 bustacap Sweet..
11:20 earobinson mako anything i need to know / do now?
11:20 Kamion the corporate/sunray documents are pretty impressive
11:20 mdke the docs on the wiki are good
11:20 mdke whiprush has blogged about em with high praise
11:20 elmo bustacap: (nitpick: vigr is preferred to vi-ing e/tc/group directly)
11:20 bustacap That's my main tangent at the moment, is joining the wiki team
11:20 mako bustacap: how long have you been involved in writing these docs?
11:21 mako bustacap: the first bug i see from you is 3 weeks ago
11:21 bustacap and continuing writing more large doco
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11:21 mako bustacap: are you active in any team yet?
11:21 bustacap yeah, my time for bugs is dictated by work..
=== Snake__ is Ken Minardo
11:21 bustacap I have pending applications for Ubuntu and the Wiki team
11:21 mako that's fine.. i'm just trying to get a sense for how long you've been involved so
far
11:21 Kamion vigr> or just 'adduser cupsys shadow', in this case
11:22 bustacap I wish to get involved in the doc team after settling into the wiki team
11:22 mdke bustacap, we don't do "applications" on the wiki team, just join the mailing list,
and #ubuntu-doc and get communicating. It will be nice to see you
11:22 bustacap and perhaps the direction of it as well..
11:22 mako yes.. the sunray page is very impressive
11:22 mdke wiki team = doc team
11:22 mako right
11:22 bustacap ok :)
11:22 mako both pages are great actually
11:23 bustacap the sunray page is part of getting Ubuntu a higher share of the business desktop
market
11:23 bustacap I would like to be involved in a team/discussions relating to the business use of
Ubuntu
11:24 mako right
11:24 Kamion TBH I'm happy, the sort of sysadmin commitment involved here implies sustained
involvement, I think
11:24 bustacap part of fixing bug #1 :)
11:24 mako ok.. these pages are like 2 months old
11:24 mako and show a pretty consitent involvement over that period
11:25 bustacap yes and I wish to maintain the level as well..
11:25 ogra bustacap, do you run the thin clients with ubuntu ltsp ?
11:25 mako i'd like to see you *surpass* that level :)
11:25 bustacap yes..
11:25 ogra wow, cool
11:25 bustacap so would I mako :)
11:26 mako alright, i'd love to see you actually get involved in the some of the teams
first..
11:26 mako your work is *great* but it's almost all stuff you've worked on independently
11:27 mako Kamion: what do you think?
11:27 bustacap yes, that's why I wanted to gain membership status, to join teams, have a say,
etc..
11:27 mako bustacap: you don't need to gain membership status to join teams :)
11:27 mako in fact, it's quite the opposite
11:27 ogra you can join teams without being a member (at least in MOTU)
11:28 ogra (or edubuntu)
11:28 mako memberships status i usually only given to people who are already active in teams!
:)
11:28 mako bustacap: since nobody else is speaking up..
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["Konversation]
11:29 Kamion mako: if you hadn't said anything I'd've been happy to say yes, I Think
11:29 Kamion s/T/t
11:29 mako alright
11:29 mako i don't know what that means :)
since there's significant/sustained contribution there and I like the sound of
11:29 Kamion sysadmins in big corporates getting involved and documenting publicly what they're
doing
=== mako nods
11:29 mako alright then
11:30 elmo I'm happy to agree with either of you, so don't look at me to tie break :-P
11:30 Kyral hehe
=== mako is fine with membership and is looking forward to good team contributions
11:30 bustacap Kamion, I think it is a good direction for sysadmins working on Ubuntu..
11:30 mdke lol @elmo
11:30 mako bustacap: thanks for your contributions so far.. i'm looking forward to more :)
11:31 Kamion bustacap: sysadmin is so often reinvent-the-wheel-city, I can only see good coming
from documenting more of it
11:31 bustacap mako, you shall see more, thank you..
11:31 mako bustacap: i think that means welcome :)
11:31 ogra welcome bustacap
11:31 bustacap thanks dude
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11:31 Kamion yup, works for me, thanks for your work so far
11:31 mako licio: is next
11:31 Ubuntuser_Ba another to family... Welcome bustacap!
11:31 mako licio: cute hackergotchi
11:32 mdke -> bed, thanks all
11:32 Kyral Hip Hip HOORAY! :P
11:32 licio mako, :-)
11:32 \sh Kamion: is your statement "sysadmin is so often reinvent-the-wheel-city" BSD
licensed? :)
11:32 Ubuntuser_Ba is very Ugly... :)
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11:32 bustacap thanks guys..
11:32 Kamion \sh: please take it outside the meeting
11:32 \sh (so I could use it on a geek shirt) :)
11:32 earobinson welcome bustacap
11:32 mako licio: introduce yourself
i'm a 20-years-old Computer Science student from Belo Horizonte, Brazil. I
consider myself a supporter of the open source community/movement, a feeling that
11:33 licio was extremelly augmented when I first started using GNU/Linux in 2001. My first
distro was Conectiva Linux (now known as Mandriva), later replaced by Debian which
I used until october of 2004. I was very satisfied with Debian but somehow I felt
that there was something else missing. That's w
11:33 licio hen I first tried Ubuntu 4.10, a true love at first sight!
11:33 mako man.. today it's all slackers.. just pasting from their wiki pages
11:33 Kamion janimo: around? anything to say about licio re xubuntu?
'Lately I've been working with the effort to translate Ubuntu and packages to
11:33 licio pt_BR, "hunting" for bugs, supporting users at #ubuntu-br, and helping with the
maintenance of the Brazilian wiki pages by translating documentation and creating
tutorials (most seen at http://planeta.ubuntubrasil.org).
11:33 mako licio's karma has something to say about licio
11:33 Kamion usual translator infinite karma of DEATH :)
11:33 mako something like, "LOTS OF TRANSLATIONS"
11:34 mako licio: you're work is well represented in LP
11:34 licio :-)
11:34 segfault he's a translator warrior
11:34 Ubuntuser_Ba Yes.. is one member expressive!
11:34 segfault he even surpassed my karma recently
11:34 licio thanks
11:34 segfault :(
11:34 Kamion quality still good?
11:35 mako licio: how long have you been involved?
11:35 segfault sure
11:35 mako a number of bugs too
11:35 Ubuntuser_Ba licio is one member active in the Planeta Ubuntu Brasil!!
11:36 Ubuntuser_Ba in the IRC channel
11:36 segfault he was translating upstream, but some members were having some problems with
commiting their changes
11:36 Ubuntuser_Ba and Forum too
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11:36 segfault so he chose rosetta
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11:36 mako alright
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11:37 mako i'm happy with membership for the combination of contributions
11:37 licio mako, 6 months
11:37 mako and the testimionaials
11:37 mako licio: sounds good :)
11:37 Ubuntuser_Ba The Brazil.. puting the Ubuntu in the Top!!
11:37 licio mako, :-D
11:37 Tonio_ :)
11:38 Kamion licio++ from me to
11:38 Kamion too
11:39 elmo ack
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11:39 mako alright then
11:39 mako licio: welcome!
11:39 Ubuntuser_Ba Congratulations my friend licio!!!
=== ogra applauds in brazilian direction
11:39 Ubuntuser_Ba Thanks ogra!
11:39 segfault licio: congrats!
11:39 mako manicka: you're up?
11:39 licio mako, and all thanks
=== Kyral pulls out a compass and tries to find Brazil lol
11:39 manicka ok
My main claim for membership stems from the sustained and ongoing support that I
have provided to users on Ubuntuforums since May 2005. My focus is on technical
11:40 manicka support for new users and general desktop support. My contributions in this area
(1500+ posts) have recently been recognised by being accepted as a member of the
moderating staff on the Forums. I am also a regular visitor to several ubuntu
related IRC channels.
11:40 Ubuntuser_Ba Yes.. welcome to family!!
One of my largest contributions at the Forums, apart from user support, has been
11:40 manicka as a founding member of the Ubuntu Document Storage Facility http://doc.gwos.org,
the knowledgebase and repository of Forum data. The UDSF has already been
discussed in some detail today so I won't explain its purpose any further here.
11:40 manicka https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GrantGalbraith <--> https://launchpad.net/people/manicka
11:40 raphink Kyral: rooh
11:41 Kyral manicka told me he was interested in helping with Edubuntu...
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11:41 ogra manicka, oooh, please drop by in #edubuntu if this is true :)
11:42 manicka Yes, I'm a teacher and wnat to be more involved in edubuntu
11:42 manicka will do
11:42 ogra great :)
11:42 mako manicka: wow, that's great :)
11:42 FLeiXiuS manicka: edubuntu + freenx :-)
11:42 FLeiXiuS Makes for one hell of a solution for thin clients.
11:42 Kyral oyah
11:42 manicka it's part of my plans for the future
11:42 Kyral FreeNX++ ;P
11:43 mako kassetra: thanks for your testimonial
11:43 earobinson I would like to show support for manicka (not sure if it counts till next meeting)
11:43 Kyral kass is here?
11:44 Kyral I vouch for him
11:44 Bonzodog manicka is real core part of the UDSF...his contribution has proven invaluable
11:44 Ubuntuser_Ba bye friends.. I have to go now..
11:44 kassetra mako: manicka really goes above and beyond the call of duty as a staff member on
the forums.
11:44 earobinson guess so Kyral
11:45 FLeiXiuS manicka is a beast, so I hear.
11:45 manicka lol
11:45 FLeiXiuS ;-)
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11:45 FLeiXiuS kassetra: My fuze came in today, she'll be pleased to see it.
11:46 mako manicka: how long have you been involved?
11:46 Kamion sorry, was browsing forum links again ... manicka seems to have contributed plenty
forums-wise, and having more moderators as members is always great
11:46 manicka since may 2005
=== mako nods to kassetra
11:46 mako well
11:46 Kyral Thats almost as long as I...
11:46 mako to Kamion too
11:47 earobinson Kamion, Ya I think its a very good thing
11:47 elmo I'm fine for membership
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=== mako also
11:48 mako win 18
=== mako blushes
11:48 Kamion ok, sounds good to me, welcome manicka
11:48 Kyral mischan?
11:48 mako manicka: welcome
11:48 Kyral Congrats manicka!
11:48 manicka thankyou
11:48 earobinson grats manicka
11:48 mako Tonio_: around?
11:48 licio mako, welcome :-)
11:48 Bonzodog congrats manicka
=== ogra shouts something non CoC compliant in direction of his DSL provider ...
=== Kyral jump hugs manicka
11:48 Tonio_ yep
11:48 mako go go go
11:48 Tonio_ My name's Anthony Mercatante, living in Paris, France.
11:48 Tonio_ My Wiki page : https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AnthonyMercatante
11:48 Tonio_ Launchpad : https://launchpad.net/people/anthony-mercatante
I mostly contributed by providing packages, but also depending on the context and
11:48 Tonio_ the help needed on the moment, which includes testing, icons designing or
submitting ideas for default configuration etc...
My motivations are simple. I like Ubuntu, and I really think it has the potential
11:48 Tonio_ of the best desktop linux distro out there (if not already). So I appreciate to
give "my two cents" of contribution.
11:49 ogra congrats manicka
11:49 manicka thanks everyone :)
Tonio is a major contributor in Kubuntu development. I care particularly about his
11:49 raphink membership since he was the one bringing me to package ubuntu apps, which is now
my main activity with reviewing ;)
11:49 elmo I don't even have to look at Tonio's wikipage, I recognise his name from the flood
of KDE new packages
11:49 raphink he maintains about 20 packages in Ubuntu
11:49 Kyral He's very active in MOTU (to say the least)
11:49 raphink :)
=== mako nods to elmo
11:49 raphink yeah
11:49 Tonio_ elmo: ^^ thanks ;)
11:49 mako elmo: however, you should
11:49 mako because it's also a very good page
11:50 elmo heh
11:50 raphink to the opinion of many, Tonio should already be a MOTU, had he taken the
opportunity to apply
11:50 mako Tonio_: if i wasn't convinced BEFORE seeing your page, i would be convinced now
11:50 mako Tonio_: how long have you been involved?
11:50 mako (i've asked everyone else)
11:50 Tonio_ mako: nice to ear :)
11:50 minghua yeah, impressive package list, nice job Tonio_
11:50 Tonio_ mako: I'm involved since march/april 2005
11:50 ogra Tonio_, so did you dive with sharks already ?
11:50 mako Tonio_: nice :)
11:51 mako ramping up i see
11:51 Tonio_ the day I decided to use linux as replacement for my win XP, and installed ubuntu
11:51 Riddell Tonio_'s done lots of stuff for kubuntu, he's long past due membership
11:51 Tonio_ I felt in love with it's community, really
11:51 ogra Riddell++
=== mako nods to Riddell
11:51 Kyral Do we even need to vote? ;P
11:51 raphink hehe
11:51 Kamion Tonio_++ as far as I'm concerned anyway
11:51 raphink ;)
11:51 mako Tonio_: thank you for making a great wiki page, for doing great work
11:51 mako i'm happy with membership
11:51 Kamion good work
11:51 raphink no vote required, this is just recognition de facto
11:51 Tonio_ thanks everyone, that's a pleasure to ear !
11:52 mako Tonio_: we may use your wiki page to show to other applicants and example :)
11:52 Kyral I think if someone didn't vote right now, they'd be collectively smacked :P
11:52 anandaputra hi all.. when is my turn? it was 5 am here in Indonesia and i'm very sleepy.. :D
11:52 mako anandaputra: you're next :)
11:52 mako anandaputra: go :)
11:52 Tonio_ mako: you should look at raphink's one....
11:52 Tonio_ by far better than my one
11:52 mako Tonio_: i have
11:52 mako the quality of wiki pages have imporved a lot in the last 2 months
My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:52 anandaputra Enthusiasts Society (http://bandung.linux.or.id) in 2001 until 2003. We've made
some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:52 anandaputra I'm 26 years old man
11:52 raphink welcome to the team (officially) Tonio_ ;)
=== raphink hugs Tonio
11:53 Tonio_ thanks everyone !
My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:53 anandaputra Enthusiasts Society (http://bandung.linux.or.id) in 2001 until 2003. We've made
some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:53 mako deja vu
My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:53 anandaputra Enthusiasts Society (http://bandung.linux.or.id) in 2001 until 2003. We've made
some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:53 smurf anandaputra: 200-character limit per line
11:53 raphink hmmpf
11:54 smurf anandaputra: cut off after "for the long time"
11:54 mako is there anyone here who can speak up for anandaputra?
11:54 anandaputra ups.. sorry..
11:54 mako i see a small number of (2 month old) translations in rosetta and not a whole lot
of other documentation
My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:54 anandaputra Enthusiasts Society (http://bandung.linux.or.id) in 2001 until 2003. We've made
some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
Indonesia).
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089E0A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:55 dihack i do tell him :)
11:57 anandaputra Yes.. I still have no direct contribution to Ubuntu yet..
11:57 Riddell anandaputra: how active is #ubuntu-id and is there an indonesian loco team?
11:57 anandaputra But I do some advocacy here
11:57 mako anandaputra: ok.. i'd ask you to build up a profile and resume of some of those
direct contributions
11:57 anandaputra I encouraged people for using Ubuntu in Indonesia
11:57 mako anandaputra: and then come back for membership :)
11:57 mako anandaputra: right.. that work is *greatly* appreciated
11:58 mako anandaputra: but we still need documentation of that
11:58 mako anandaputra: and i don't see a lot of that
11:58 mako anandaputra: that doesn't mean you haven't done it or that we don't appreciate
it.. it's just not clear from looking at your patge
11:58 anandaputra http://www.davidsudjiman.info/?p=79
11:58 lmanul (If I could be next, I'd be really grateful, getting late over here :) )
11:58 dihack maybe you interst to read that article
11:58 dihack it about ubuntu shipping
11:59 mako lmanul: it's long for all of us.. we're going as fast as we can
11:59 dihack :(
11:59 lmanul mako, np
11:59 ogra_ mako, lmanul was on top of the list initially :)
11:59 mako lmanul: you're next then
11:59 lmanul :)
11:59 lmanul All right
11:59 mako dihack: now is not the time to be bringing new things up
11:59 mako we apprecaite you work
11:59 earobinson I only went cuz no one else was going sorry
My name is Manu Cornet, I'm a 24 year-old French guy living in Paris, France. I'm
currently a PhD student in bioinformatics, as well as a musician, graphics
12:00 lmanul designer and author of a few books. I'm a member of the Desktop Team, GNOME team
and Art Team, active on IRC channels (#ubuntu-desktop, #ubuntu-fr, #ubuntu) and
mailing lists (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-devel).
12:00 mako but as it's currently documented, i don't think it would be fair to others we have
asked to come back
12:00 mako lmanul: hold up dude :)
12:00 mako lmanul: we're not done with anandaputra
12:00 lmanul Woops :-p
12:00 mako jumped the gun
12:00 lmanul Sorry, my "Enter" slipped :-p
12:00 mako anandaputra: if you want, you can run the page by me or other people from the CC
12:00 anandaputra As a matter of fact, I've not own any computer right now, so I always bring Ubuntu
Install CD and Ubuntu Live CD..
12:01 mako anandaputra: that's great
12:01 mako anandaputra: but we need to document your direct contributions before we can grant
you membership
12:01 mako anandaputra: so lets work on that for another meeting :)
12:01 mako anandaputra: hopefully one at a more convenient time for you :)
12:01 mako anandaputra: ok?
12:02 anandaputra ok than..
yeah, what mako said - I don't imagine it'll be a problem once we
12:03 Kamion have a good account of what you've done, it's just a matter of
laying that out for us
12:03 mako anandaputra: cool.. email with me beforehand if you're unclear
12:04 mako lmanul: alright
12:04 mako lmanul: you're up
12:04 lmanul :)
12:05 mako lmanul: no need to repost
12:05 mako lmanul: but give us MORE
12:05 anandaputra ok.. thanks mako..
I first started using Linux back in 1999 with a "Yellow dog"
distro onto my iMac. Since then, I've been using Debian quite a
12:05 lmanul lot, until I found out about Ubuntu in spring 2005, simply fell
in love with it, and decided to let it replace Debian on my 3
boxes (incl a server). Ubuntu had reached the point where I could
really advise my non-computer-aware friends to switch to Linux.
I then began to really contribute when I participated in Google's
"Summer of Code 2005", and I had so much fun hacking Ubuntu and
12:05 lmanul GNOME with the help of seb128 that I never stopped :) So here I
am, wanting to really be part of the community, and keep on
hacking (especially on UI issues) to make Ubuntu even easier to
use and even nicer to look at !
Wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManuCornet ) and launchpad (
12:05 lmanul https://launchpad.net/people/manu-cornet ) but they mostly link
to http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/ where I described what I've
been doing for Ubuntu.
12:05 lmanul A few recommandations :
12:05 lmanul http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/lmanul_ubuntu
12:05 lmanul And I think vuntz /queried Kamion a little while ago to give some
recommandation about me as well
12:06 mako cool
12:06 mako i know you
12:06 ogra do we really need recommendations ?
12:06 lmanul And huh, dholbach doesn't seem to be here :)
12:06 ogra lmanul, brought us the new logout dialog
12:06 seb128 I think you have enough without him :p
12:06 earobinson summer of code wow!
12:06 lmanul ;-)
12:06 ogra that speaks for itself :)
12:06 Kyral umm, nuff said?
18:28 <vuntz> Manu has been helping enthusiastically in the past
12:06 Kamion few months: he's implemented features, giving feedback, etc., and
(this is most important) he has contributed to the "love"
atmosphere of the
12:06 Kamion desktop team. And he's French. So I support his
application :-)
12:07 Kyral lol
12:07 ogra oh, and dont forget the add to panel dialog ...
12:07 licio :-)
"lmanul is a great contibutor for the desktop teams for some
months now. He started with a bounty for the Google summer of
code, working on the "add to panel" dialog for gnome-panel we
12:07 seb128 ship at the moment and some change for gnome-menus/admin. He's
responsive since on the bugs on the code he wrote, helps on bug
triage, worked on a separator applet for gnome-applets (which is
shipped upstream now), did the patch for the new gnome-session
dialo
12:07 seb128 g and the icons for it, and is active on IRC and on the desktop
list. I recommend it for ubuntu membership
12:07 seb128 "
12:07 mako is being french an asset or a liability? <duck>
12:07 seb128 that's what I wrote, better and the URI :p
12:07 mako it depends on if you're trying to sign a contract i guess ;)
12:08 earobinson lol
12:08 mako according to elmo, it's very complicating and somehow involves
the marquis de sade
12:08 ogra mako, you could always pretend to be a french speaking brazilian
:)
12:08 seb128 beeing french make easier for you to read #ubuntu-desktop
sometime :)
12:08 lmanul haha
12:08 mako seb128: i imagine :)
12:08 seb128 :p
I'm impressed by all the desktop contributions and I'm
12:09 Kamion particularly pleased to see people continuing to work on Ubuntu
after the Summer of Code
12:09 mako Kamion: amen :)
12:09 mako lmanul: thrilled to have your contributions to date
12:09 mako and looking forward to the future
12:09 mako lots of good stuff
=== mako is happy with membership
12:09 Kamion me too if it wasn't clear
12:09 elmo ack too
=== ogra waits for lmanul's gdm rewrite in dapper+1
12:09 mako lmanul: welcome :)
12:10 lmanul Thanks a lot guys !
12:10 ogra welcome lmanul
12:10 lmanul ogra, I'll do my best :-p
12:10 seb128 lamont: congrats :)
12:10 raphink welcome lmanul
12:10 ogra *g*
12:10 seb128 ups
12:10 seb128 lmanul: congrats :)
12:10 ogra lool
12:10 lmanul Thanks everyone
12:10 licio Congratulations lmanul
12:11 freeflying_ mako: May I be the next
12:11 mako freeflying_: you are next
I live in China PRC , my name is Hou ZhengPeng , a member of
ubuntu-cn locoteam .I've worked on package for kubuntu , do my
best for BetterCJKsupport and do some test about CJK also I have
12:11 freeflying_ translated some docs about ubntu into chinese . My future plan
focus on following two : 1 promote the using of ubuntu in chinese
,2 establish kubuuntu-zh website for chinese 3 continue
BetterCJKSupport spec
12:11 freeflying_ My wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Freeflying
12:12 Riddell freeflying_ has been doing great at telling me what to do to get
CKJ support in kubuntu better
12:12 mako freeflying_: i'd personally like to work with you on some of your
input method work :)
12:12 ogra mako, minghua is applying for membership today too :)
12:13 minghua I read freeflying_'s (and other ubuntu-cn people's) work on
ubuntu.org.cn
12:13 ogra seems we finally have some people to solve input methds
12:13 mako ogra: yes
12:13 minghua they've done very well documentation work there, helping new
users in the forums
12:13 Riddell he's also packaged various CKJ fonts and skim input for kubuntu,
so I'm all for his membership
=== ogra thinks it smells like a MOTUInput team :)
12:13 mako are the ubuntu-tw , ubuntu-cn and ubuntu-hk teams all
collaborating on doc stuff?
12:13 mako the wikipage seems to imply that
12:14 minghua I also think freeflying_'s English skill is important for
communication between Chinese users and the whole community
12:14 freeflying_ mako: y , we are working on that
12:14 mako wow, that's great :)
on freeflying and minghua are doing a great job in teaching motus
12:14 \sh and main devs how to use input methods...they helped a lot to
find some issues in qt3 and the immodule patch :)
12:14 mako debian had some pretty famous political problems in this regard
minghua: I guess we'll get to you in a moment, but are you in
12:14 Kamion broad agreement with freeflying_ on the direction we need to take
on input methods?
12:14 minghua I also appreciate his BetterCJKSupport proposal, which attracted
quite some people
=== mako nods to minghua
12:15 mako i think this is one of the major areas that ubuntu needs to focus
energy in the next year or two
12:15 minghua Kamion: that depends on what he want to do with input method
packages
12:15 mako minghua: i'd like to have them connected to language packs
12:16 minghua I've not talked with freeflying_ much on input method issue, and
I don't really know his plan
12:16 mako and have necessary configuration happen automagically
12:16 minghua mako: we can get to it when it's my turn :-)
12:16 mako cool
12:16 mako freeflying_: how long have you been involved?
12:16 mako ogra: how long have you seen freeflying_'s contributions?
12:17 mako because the wikpage shows great work but seems a little thin IMHO
12:17 freeflying_ mako: 5/2005
12:17 Riddell he's been around for a good while
12:17 mako the magic month
=== mako nods
12:17 ogra mako, i'm not deep into KDE stuff, but since quite some time
12:17 minghua freeflying_: I am interested in mako's question about cn, tw,
hk's collaboration as well
12:17 freeflying_ minghua: we may talk about that sonner after
12:17 Riddell and is on #kubuntu-devel daily
12:17 mako *some* amount of collaboration is going to be necessary in that
we all work together at a common place
12:17 freeflying_ s/sonner/sooner
12:17 mako but if we can have more direct collaboration on obviously related
problems, that's *awesome*
12:18 ogra mako++
12:18 minghua mako: the BetterCJKSupport proposal work is done by all CJK
people
12:18 mako great
12:18 mako ok..
12:18 mako lets get back to freeflying_'s application
12:18 mako since it's been over 2 hours now
12:18 Kyral yes...please...
12:18 minghua but on the documentation side what I've seen is completed
separated work
12:18 Kyral Kyral....hungry....
12:19 mako Riddell, ogra: would you be ok with membership or prefer to wait
a meeting or two
=== ogra goes with Riddell, he can judge the KDE side better
12:19 Riddell mako: he's been around long enough and has consistenly been
helping with CJK, I'm all in support of his membership
12:20 mako alright..
=== \sh agrees with riddell
12:20 Riddell and tests dapper frequently for CJK and other issues
12:20 mako freeflying_: are you involved in an loco team?
12:20 freeflying_ mako: sure ubuntu-cn
12:21 mako nice webpage :)
12:21 freeflying_ mako: thx
12:22 Kamion I'm fine with freeflying_ for membership based on testimonials
12:22 elmo me too
12:22 mako freeflying_: i'm happy to have you on board
12:22 mako alright
12:23 mako freeflying_: welcome!
12:23 minghua congratulations freeflying_
12:23 mako last up to bat
12:23 freeflying_ mako: thx
12:23 minghua my turn?
12:23 freeflying_ thx all
12:23 \sh freeflying_: welcome on board :)
12:23 licio welcome freeflying_ :-D
12:23 ogra congrats freeflying_
Okay. My name is Ming Hua. wiki page:
12:23 minghua https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MingHua launchpad profile:
https://launchpad.net/people/minghua
12:23 freeflying_ \sh licio ogra :thx
I am a Chinese coming from mainland China. Currently I am a
12:24 minghua Ph.D. student on materials science, in Rice University, Houston,
USA.
My main contribution so far has been: 1. testing and reporting
12:24 minghua bugs; 2. helping MOTUs with transitions and merges; 3. taking
care of the SCIM related packages (I am the Debian maintainer of
some of them).
My future plan would be: 1. maintaining and improving SCIM
related packages, as input methods seem to be a popular request
12:24 minghua from users and Ubuntu seems to be lacking people that work on
this; 2. help MOTU science team, especially on collaborating with
Debian.
12:24 Kamion minghua's been around for a long time - I remember your name from
a conversation about translations late in the hoary cycle I think
I would also like to mention that I am heavily involved in the
12:24 minghua i18n/l10n work in Debian, which I think Ubuntu will also benefit
from.
12:24 Kyral I was surprised that he wasn't a Member
12:24 Kamion or was it warty, one of those
12:24 minghua Kamion: yes, that's probably my first Ubuntu bug :-)
12:25 minghua mako: back to the input method issue you mentioned: I would love
to see input method support integrated into lang-pack too
12:25 \sh minghua is quite active in the MOTU area and also one of hell bug
squasher
12:25 minghua but I am not really a programmer, so I definitely need help on
that
12:26 ogra elmo just synced his scim package from debian :)
12:26 minghua however as I've indicated on my wiki page, input method support
is my first priority in both Debian and Ubunut
12:26 freeflying_ minghua has contributed much oto scim
12:26 mako minghua: we're gonna do it
as with freeflying_ I'm happy to have more people who actually
12:26 Kamion know about input methods, and particularly getting the Debian
scim maintainer on-board is clearly the right thing to do
12:26 mako minghua: if we can get people from 4 other languages
represented.. we can do this
=== mako nods to Kamion
12:26 minghua and I would definitely pursue automatical IM support in dapper+1
if we don't have enough time for dapper
12:26 mako minghua: we'll do it
12:27 Kamion and I approve of the detailed wiki page :)
12:27 Kyral okay I'm off. I support minghua :P
12:27 Kamion so minghua++ as far as I'm concerned
12:27 minghua thanks Kyral :-)
12:27 mako minghua: i don't think we have time to test it honestly for
dapper.. because the changes are pretty invasive
12:27 earobinson bye Kyral
12:27 mako minghua: we should *start* planning for dapper+1
12:27 LaserJock minghua is helping me (and MOTU Science in general) with his
knowledge of Debian and desire for collaboration
12:27 elmo ack from me too
12:27 mako minghua: we should meet up sometime this week to strategize
12:27 minghua mako: yes that's my concern too, especially dapper will be
supported for 3 years
12:27 mako minghua: awesome :)
12:28 minghua mako: and scim upstream now essetianlly don't support old release
branches :-(
12:28 earobinson can I ask what " automatical IM support" is going to be?
12:28 minghua mako: that would be wonderful (having some help from others)
12:29 Kamion I believe I've approved everyone from this meeting in Launchpad;
let me know if I've missed anyone
12:29 mako Kamion: you rock
12:29 mako awesome
12:29 mako so i think that's it
earobinson: my vision is that you choose CJK (chinese, japanese,
12:29 minghua korean) as the language in install, input method (hopefully scim
:-) packages will be automatically installed, and when you boot
into you new gnome/kde desktop, you can use IM immediately
12:29 mako i approve of minghua, if that wasn't clear
=== ogra applauds minghua
12:29 Kamion yep, any other business before we close?
12:29 mako minghua: YES
12:29 \sh minghua: congrats :)
12:29 mako minghua: BROTHER
12:29 minghua that still requries a lot of work, though
12:30 Kamion please say no, my wife would like to actually see me tonight :)
12:30 minghua thanks, mako,
12:30 mako minghua: this has been my #1 goal for ubuntu since almost day one
:)
12:30 mako ok ok ok
12:30 minghua thanks d ogra
12:30 mako i think that means the MEETING IS OVER
12:30 mako Kamion: quickly run away :)
12:30 mako thanks everyone who was here at weird times
12:30 minghua thanks for the CC members too
12:30 ogra Kamion, only 30min and its early morning already, hurry up :)
12:31 mako lets do it like 10 hours earlier next time
12:31 minghua for such a long meeting
12:31 nealmcb fascinating - thanks folks!
12:31 mako next meeting at UTC12
12:31 mako two weeks from today
12:31 mako ?
12:31 mako sounds sane
12:31 Kamion works for me
12:31 mako cool