10:00 Kamion           ok, I guess we might as well start going through the bits of the agenda that don't
                       require voting, anyway
10:01 Kamion           Malone migration
10:01 Kamion           vuntz: here?
10:01 elmo             he's on his way
10:01 mako             greetings!
10:01 Kamion           (vuntz said to me earlier that he might not be here)
10:01 Kamion           ah, great
10:01 vuntz            Kamion: yes
10:01 ogra             yay, mako
10:01 Kamion           hi mako
10:01 segfault         hi
10:01 GnuKemist        mako howdy
10:01 Kamion           vuntz: personally, I tend to agree that this is a TB item
10:01 bddebian         GnuKemist: good nick :-)
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=== mako catches up with the agneda
10:02 vuntz            Kamion: well, I'm okay to do this on a TB meeting :-)
10:02 GnuKemist        bddebian thanx  =)
10:02 vuntz            mark told me CC or TB, so I choose CC ;-)
10:02 Kamion           vuntz: that said, ultimately it's more Canonical/Launchpad management, which
                       neither the CC nor the TB necessarily have jurisdiction over ;-)
10:02 vuntz            right
10:02 vuntz            and I feel this is one of the issue, btw
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                       it's perhaps worth saying that, with the amount of man-years that've been put into
10:03 Kamion           Launchpad, it *is* justifiably important to Canonical to get it all actually being
                       used at some point
10:03 vuntz            I totally agree
10:03 Kamion           and I think without a sizeable project using it, it won't get the user attention
                       it needs to get its problems fixed
10:03 vuntz            the problem I'm seeing is that the community was not asked when migration should
10:03 mako             are we discussingwhat to do with the first agenda item?
10:03 Kamion           yeah, sort of
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10:04 elmo             vuntz: did anyone from the community strenuously object or is this a
                       hypothetical/academic objection?
10:04 \sh              vuntz: to be honest, launchpad malone migration was overdue...
10:04 vuntz            it's just kind of weird to learn one week before the migration that it will happen
10:04 vuntz            elmo: I wanted to do it after the dapper release
10:04 bustacap         hehe yeah, I changed the doco pointing to the bugzilla the night before it
                       happened - I'm not even in the 'loop'
10:04 Kamion           it had actually been planned for before dapper, and announced as such in public
                       (ish) at UDU ...
10:05 vuntz            not everyone was at UDU ;-)
10:05 Kamion           so it was late, rather than out-of-the-blue, I think
10:05 smurf            vuntz: that's actually better than learning abot it a week afterwards ...
10:05 vuntz            should I move the item to the TB?
10:05 mako             it was *real* late
10:05 Kamion           yeah, but it was publicised more than that I think
                       vuntz: the time while we used malone for launchpad, the people weren't complaining
10:05 \sh              so much about difficulties...other complains were only coming from ubuntu
                       developers, and those issues were addressed during UBZ and are addressed via
                       malone now and on  #launchpad
10:05 smurf            ... so I wouldn't complain too strenuously. ;-)
10:05 sivang           Kamion++
10:05 mako             IIRC it was planned for *warty*
10:05 Kamion           (hey, we were meant to be using Malone for Hoary. Never mind eh.)
10:05 mako             at least in mark's mind
10:05 Kamion           yeah, end of warty cycle
10:05 raphink          hi all
10:06 raphink          I'll be around for CC in 5 mins
10:06 jpatrick         hello raphink
10:06 vuntz            I'm not challenging the decision, just the way it was taken
10:06 Kyral            raphink: its now ;P
10:06 \sh              "we used malone for universe" even
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10:06 vuntz            from a community point of view, it kind of sucked, imho
10:06 sivang           \sh: :)
10:06 mako             vuntz: i see what you mean
10:06 raphink          well i just have to do something quick so I'll join
10:06 raphink          count me in :)
10:06 vuntz            I'd like to fix this for the future
=== raphink is Raphael Pinson
10:06 Kamion           FWIW, the Soyuz migration is happening this week ...
10:06 mako             i think the problem is that many of us that are more involved in this had taken
                       this move for granted for YEARS
10:06 freeflying_      raphink: hi
10:07 jjesse           what is soyuz?
10:07 Kamion           although that ought to not affect people so visibly, only uploaders
10:07 Kamion           jjesse: replacement for katie
10:07 sivang           Kamion: shh :)
10:07 Kyral            next question: What is Katie ;P
                       vuntz: we also have to balance the timing of the announcement  with expectations -
10:07 elmo             we don't want to announce a move for a certain date way in advance, only to find
                       as we get closer we're not ready
10:07 Kamion           Kyral: archive management
10:07 sivang           Kyral: one of elmo's gfs
10:07 mako             Kyral: archive maintaince software
10:07 Kyral            Kamion: I know :P
10:07 sivang           Kyral: ;-)
10:07 Kyral            Kamion: I was expecting it from jjesse ;P
10:07 minghua          hi freeflying_, glad you make it
10:07 mdke             evening
10:07 mako             vuntz: ok..
10:07 Bonzodog         evening:)
10:07 GnuKemist        mdke hey
10:07 freeflying_      minghua: thx
10:07 mako             has this meeting officially started?
10:08 Bonzodog         I believe so
10:08 \sh              and thinking about soyuz landing...that is a very say goodbye to katie
10:08 mdke             mako, looks like it to me
10:08 kjcole           vuntz: It did just seem to suddenly "happen".  (It didn't bother me, but I was
                       also a wee bit surprised.  My reaction was more like "Really? Wow! Cool!")
                       vuntz: so while the final date of migration was only announced with a short lead
10:08 elmo             time, I think the fact that migration to malone was going to be the way forward
                       sooner or later, was reasonably well publicised
10:08 vuntz            elmo: my point is "it was announced and community was not involved in the
10:08 elmo             vuntz: dude, that's not true
                       in the case of Soyuz, my feeling's that the (non-uploader) community won't notice
10:08 Kamion           or care, and hopefully I think the plan's for uploads still to happen through
              so I suspect only a few core developers will really notice the
10:08 elmo             vuntz: there was no major community reaction
10:08 mako             elmo: i think vuntz has a point
10:08 vuntz            elmo: dude
10:09 elmo             if there had been, and we'd forced ahead anyway, then I think you'd have more of a
10:09 vuntz            elmo: I can't look at my bugs ;-)
10:09 elmo             vuntz: err, why not?
10:09 elmo             mako: sure, not saying he doesn't
10:09 vuntz            elmo: it's a lot harder to triage now
10:09 mako             there are number of decisions like malone, soyuz, etc that have been goals we
                       (speaking as canonical and early ubuntu people) have taken for granted
10:09 vuntz            that's a big regression for people
10:09 vuntz            but that's not the point of the item in the agenda
10:09 mako             and that certain people in the community may (rightfully?) felt cut out of
10:10 mako             at the *very least* we should identify those other long-term goals that are sort
                       of things that have been here since the beginning
10:10 mako             and document those
10:10 jjesse           is there a place that shows these "goals"
10:10 vuntz            elmo: I would have pushed harder to delay the migration if I knew it would happen
                       so soon
10:10 mako             jjesse: no, that's my point
10:10 mako             jjesse: and getting pretty close to my first suggestion :)
10:10 LaserJock        but how would you include the community? Have a poll?
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10:10 Kamion           LaserJock: it has to be a little more informed than that
10:10 earobinson       LaserJock, why not use meetings?
10:10 \sh              and to regard some decisions....if sabdfl said, we will make it this way, it's the
                       law...even if he's wrong^Wright
10:11 Kamion           gauging informed reaction rather than a straight yay/nay
10:11 kjcole           mako: Sort of a "Book of Genesis" of what begat what and when.  Wiki?
10:11 mako             announcements, meetings, discussions
10:11 vuntz            \sh: right, but this needs to be publicized
10:11 Kamion  has a lot of what's in the pipeline
10:11 vuntz            it was not
10:11 mako             this isn't sabfdl forcing something
10:11 bustacap         lambert, perhaps announcing in the official doco and on the Ubuntu dot com news
                       section along with the mailing lists..
=== sivang was surprised this the transition didn't happen before.
10:11 mako             there are other examples of that
10:11 Kyral            send it over the Announce ML
10:11 LaserJock        my point is that it is easy to say the community needs to be involved, but what
                       would that mean? A CC vote?
10:11 mako             LaserJock: if it came to that
10:11 mako             i don't think that's the issue
10:12 \sh              mako: I forgot the "would"
10:12 elmo             btw, the  soyuz migration is very different
10:12 mako             i think vuntz just feels like there are some important decisions that are being
                       taken without involving everyone they effect
10:12 Kamion           personally I really don't want the CC ending up voting on whether or not to move
                       some piece of infrastructure to Launchpad or not
10:12 elmo             as virtually nothing changes from a developer perspective
10:12 vuntz            it's not about voting
10:12 Kamion           elmo: yeah, that's what I was saying above too
10:12 vuntz            it's about telling the community what will happen
10:12 vuntz            so the community can at least give some feedback
10:12 mako             vuntz: right, it's about deliberation and community involvement :)
10:12 LaserJock        ok, well that makes sense
10:12 Kyral            Why don't we use the Announce ML more?
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10:13 mako             alright, i've got two proposals
10:13 bustacap         Kyral, the migration was in the devel ML..
10:13 earobinson       Kyral, has a point
10:13 Kamion           Kyral: we do use it a fair bit, and -devel-announce too; you have to balance the
                       amount of traffic that people actually want to read
10:13 mako             (1) canonical people try to come up with a list of other of these assumed
                       trajectory items
10:13 \sh              mako: but we said many times, that we will move from bugzilla to malone for
              least since I was starting and I think many months before
10:13 mako             it's s small list
10:13 vuntz            \sh: for me, it was long-term item
10:13 mako             (2) vuntz comes up with a list of concrete suggestions for how this could be
                       avoided and when we choose to follow up on those solutions
10:13 bustacap         vuntz, are you a reader of the devel-announce list?
10:13 vuntz            \sh: like, in one or two years
10:14 Kyral            how many "normal" (non-devel) users subscribe to the -devel-announce?
10:14 vuntz            bustacap: yes
10:14 bustacap         Kyral, that's my point..
10:14 Kamion           Kyral: how many normal users care about the sorts of things announced there?
10:14 vuntz            mako: yes, I can handle (2) if people agree
10:14 mako             vuntz: why don't you do 2, work with us if you want, and then we present something
                       at the next meeting
10:14 bustacap         I think the migration was not only a devel issue
10:14 Kyral            Kamion: if I hear the issue right, its about informing the community yes?
10:14 vuntz            mako: sure
10:14 \sh              vuntz: it's a nightmare to use two different systems for bug tracking
10:14 vuntz            it's okay for me
10:14 vuntz            \sh: I understand
10:14 mako             i don't doubt that there are things we could do better
10:15 mako             in this regard
10:15 seb128           \sh: it's better than using malone instead of bugzilla though :p
                       maybe in the future will have a more straight forward ways to track such or at
10:15 sivang           least related things. (given launchpad changes are not so much of an 'ubuntu'
                       policy maybe)
10:15 mako             but part of the problem is that i don't think we even thought this would be
10:15 mako             because *we* have seem it on the radar for so long
10:15 mako             vuntz: but i think it's ok because ther is a small number of such things :)
10:15 seb128           mako: right, but affects directly people workflow
10:16 sivang           mako: community people who have been tracking the project, saw it all along as
                       well, just as \sh noted
10:16 vuntz            I was also surprised that nobody answered my concerns on ubuntu-devel about this
                       Kyral: yeah, but I think it's a bit more than "we should post our laundry lists on
10:16 Kamion           -announce", since as mako says there's the question of untangling what
                       subconscious things we actually do need to tell people in advance
10:16 bustacap         vuntz, would the issue be that it was not announced in more mainstream areas of
                       the community?
10:16 mako             seb128: excactly
                       vuntz: regarding the cxx transition for breezy, where universe maintainers used
10:16 \sh              bugzilla as well (and also for the merging stuff) it was quite confusing when to
                       look at bugzilla and use malone for normal bug reporting and tracking for
                       universe...for the developers (at least me) it was a nightmare
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10:16 seb128           mako: I was a bit disapointed too than nobody replied to vuntz on the list to be
                       kyral, bustacap, how many "normal" (non-devel) users filed bugs in either
10:16 kjcole           system?  (I honestly don't know, but I'd guess most filing bugs would read some of
                       the afore mentioned lists already.)
10:16 anandaputra      Hi all
=== mako will admit he's behind on -devel mail
10:16 seb128           mako: and that the decision has been made without the distro team (but that's
                       probably not the topic atm)
10:16 bustacap         kjcole, I file a fair few ;)
10:16 vuntz            bustacap: it should have been announced before so that people could give feedback
10:16 mako             seb128: well, it's related
10:17 LaserJock        I did reply because I was thinking "It's about time", but that's just my opinion
10:17 bustacap         vuntz, OK.
10:17 Kyral            kjcole: the way I understand it, BugZilla = Main, Malone = Universe, Multiverse
10:17 mako             seb128: please, work with vuntz to come up with a recommendation for how we can
                       fix it
10:17 jjesse           EXIT
10:17 jjesse           sorry bout that
10:17 LaserJock        *I didn't reply
10:17 Kamion           yes, I think the announcement should have been a bit further in advance
10:17 seb128           mako: "communicate" ... :)
10:17 mako             seb128, vuntz: and feel free to send it to the CC before hand so we can get
10:17 seb128           mako: but sure
10:17 Kamion           one of the problems was that we didn't actually have a date for it until quite
                       close to the time
10:17 kjcole           bustacap, but then you come to CC meetings too.  So, you're "up" on some of the
10:17 mako             seb128: if *only* it were that easy :)
10:17 anandaputra      sorry i'm late..
10:17 bustacap         haha kjcole, I'm here for membership.. :)
10:17 seb128           mako: saying 2 days before "we switch friday" is not really good communication
10:18 mako             seb128: i tend to agree
10:18 bustacap         but I do like this meeting..
10:18 Kyral            seb128++
10:18 mako             seb128: and a policy of waiting more than 2 days is probably a very sane
                       recommendation that i personally would be fully in support of
10:18 kjcole           kyral: Ah, I didn't start actively participating til UBZ, and then got the
                       impression everything was moving to Malone in a matter of weeks.
10:18 seb128           right
10:18 bustacap         kjcole, it's a shame it's on now, I am supposed to be on the road driving to work
                       now - but I organised a late start at work for today..
10:18 Kamion           I'm not sure we can do much more here
10:19 mako             alright, if you are not speaking on the topic at hand, can you please take
                       messages into a query
10:19 mako             this is a busier meeting than normal
10:19 mako             and we want to let the europeans get to sleep :)
10:19 vuntz            seb128 and I will work on propositions on how to enhance communication for such
10:19 Kamion           possibly worth bringing up the existence of the launchpad-users list, BTW
10:19 Kyral            and us ESTers to get dinner ;P
10:19 mako             excellent
10:19 sivang           mako: please do :)
10:19 \sh              Kamion: any statistics if there is a decrease or increase of bugreports since
                       malone migration? I think we can only see those issues on plain numbers
10:19 raphink          ty mako ;)
10:19 vuntz            I'm happy with this :-)
=== Bonzodog makes it 21:19 UTC in Ireland
10:19 sivang           Kamion: good point
10:20 mako             Bonzodog: that's not on the topic at hand :P
10:20 mdke             the existence of launchpad-users has shown that problems can get addressed quickly
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10:20 mdke             the lack of documentation for malone was raised and resolved in a few days
10:20 mako             alright
10:20 mako             vuntz: so, you raised this issue.. if you're happy with this until next meeting or
                       until you have a proposal, i'd be happy to move on :)
10:21 vuntz            yes, we can move one
10:21 vuntz            on
10:21 mako             excellent :)
10:21 mako             UDSF
10:21 Kamion           \sh: no idea
10:21 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: Yes
10:21 mako             who owns this?
=== Kyral puts on a helmet
10:21 Kyral            KB
10:21 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: I do
10:21 mako             excellent
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10:22 earobinson       As I understand Kingbahamut|Werk has said he has no problems with any of the docs
                       being ported to the wiki
10:22 earobinson       correct?
10:22 Kyral            what about vice versa?
10:22 Kingbahamut|Werk earobinson: no I dont
10:22 mako             basically, this is a proposal to start moving documents from the forums into the
10:22 Kyral            yah
10:22 mdke             not quite
10:22 Burgwork         mako, the concern more is a split of resources
10:22 Kingbahamut|Werk The USDF is an archive of existing forum data, thats its purpose
10:23 mdke             a wiki exists to which documents are moved from the forum
10:23 anandaputra      Sorry i'm late.. About membership, are they still opening?
10:23 mdke             it's not the Ubuntu wiki
10:23 manicka          it's not a competing documentation project
10:23 earobinson       anandaputra, hasent started yet
10:23 mako             anandaputra: we'll get there
10:23 manicka          it is an archive of forum data
10:23 anandaputra      mako, ok.. :)
10:23 bustacap         what is 'data'?
10:23 bustacap         all of the posts?
10:24 Kyral            Howtos, commonly answered questions...
10:24 Kyral            I think
10:24 manicka          key information posted in the threads
10:24 Burgwork         afaics, there is nothing in the USDF that cannot find a home in the ubuntu wiki
10:24 earobinson       I think that the docs are just another fork, like another distro both can use the
10:24 Kyral            wasn't the issue that Forums things met with resistance in the Wiki?
10:25 Kingbahamut|Werk There has been that in the past Kyral
10:25 mdke             Kyral, no, far from it
10:25 Burgwork         Kyral, no, they just were not worked on
10:25 Kyral            okay..
10:25 Kyral            Just wanna get my facts clear
10:25 \sh              Burgwork: depends on the license of the published forum data...
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10:25 mako             ok..
10:25 mdke             can someone say what the issue for the CC is here?
10:25 mako             lets focus here
10:25 Kingbahamut|Werk forum possesses no license
10:25 mako             mdke: excactly :)
10:26 mako             i've read the proposal
10:26 manicka          If the data was worked into the wiki it wouldn't an archive of the forums anymore,
                       that's its purpose
10:26 mako             i have two questions:
10:26 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: ask, capn.
10:26 mako             (1) what the is the state of any technical implementation that would need to be
                       done in order to make this happen?
10:26 mako             what needs to happen and who is going to do it and when?
10:27 anandaputra      brb..
10:27 mdke             mako, you've missed the point slightly. There is no proposal. There is a wiki, at
              which has howtos from the forum on it.
10:27 vuntz            (that's more than 2 questions ;-))
10:27 mako             (2) sabdfl apparently asked for a joint docteam/forums proposal.. this seems very
                       udsf.. are there concerns or open issues from the docteam?
10:27 mako             vuntz: ssh :)
10:27 Kyral            Could I suggest a team that looks through the forums on a regular basis and "picks
                       up" howtos for the Wiki?
10:27 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: 2, not as far as I know. The collection of the documentation is there to be
                       collected at will bot those who wish to collec it
10:27 manicka          there is no proposal to migrate
10:28 Kingbahamut|Werk bot = by
                       afaics however there is no open issue. Some members of the documentation team have
10:28 mdke             expressed our sadness that a separate wiki was required, rather than using the
                       Ubuntu wiki, where we'd attempted to make it easy for forum members to contribute
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10:28 mdke             but, it quickly became clear that that is not an option
10:29 Kingbahamut|Werk mdke: we dont want that sorrow , but I understand the complication
10:29 mako             mdke: ok.. so there *was* controversy that was laid to rest
10:29 Kamion           Kyral: (in general the first step is to assemble a group of people wanting to do
                       it, rather than to propose a team)
10:29 manicka          most o fthe work on UDSf is done by a small group of people
10:29 Kyral            Kamion: I would...
                       I'm just going over the meeting logs from last time, the issue then seemed to be
10:29 elmo             a) duplication/waste of documenting resources, b) the official forums pointing at
                       the unofficial udsf, instead of the wiki, c) licensing stuff
10:29 mako             my position tends to be that the CC should really only get involved in a project
                       when there is a conflict
10:29 manicka          not by lots of users
10:29 Burgwork         mako, I am resigned to the existance of the USDF. Doens't mean I like it or I
                       think it needs to exist
10:29 mdke             mako, that is correct
10:29 earobinson       Kamion, so would I
10:29 mako             ubuntu is not a permission-based system
10:29 mdke             i have the same opinion as Burgwork
10:29 mako             or world
10:30 mako             people do good work, create useful resources, and that's good
10:30 jjesse           i echo mdke and burgwork
10:30 Kamion           what mako said; if you're all getting along and doing stuff, er, keep at it :)
10:30 Burgwork         however I recognize the realities that USDF is nicer to edit than our Moin based
10:30 bustacap         surely the Howtos on the USDF can be assimilated into the Ubuntu wiki
10:30 Kingbahamut|Werk mako: that was the intent, an archival of data useful to the user
10:30 earobinson       bustacap, no one has said they cant
10:30 mdke             bustacap, it takes twice as much work: docs go to two places, not one
10:30 manicka          they are there to be used by anyone
10:31 Bonzodog         and the data is directly from the forums, almost uneditied, apart from grammatical
10:31 Kyral            the very nature of the Wiki is that anyone can add to it
10:31 Bonzodog         it is not guaranteed to work
10:31 bustacap         perhaps new howtos should be only drawn up in the Ubuntu wiki and the forums left
                       only as a forum for help questions not help documentation..
10:31 Bonzodog         as the how-to's are very much one persons discovered method of doing things
10:32 Kamion           bustacap: in reality, I don't see that it's in our power to restrict where people
                       write documentation
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10:32 Burgwork         USDF really actually grows out of the forums as seperate from Ubuntu thing
10:32 robotgeek        Bonzodog: so are several articles on the Ubuntu wiki
10:32 mdke             Kamion is quite right
10:32 mdke             there is no issue here for the CC
10:32 bustacap         Kamion, not a restriction but a good set of guidelines..
10:32 Kamion           we can recommend all we like, but UDSF grew up because people found that the wiki
                       wasn't fulfilling their needs
10:33 manicka          no that's not true
10:33 mdke             yes that is right
10:33 mako             alright
10:33 Kamion           ok, that's one reason anyway
10:33 earobinson       I use both when I provide support, they are different styles IMO
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10:34 mako             ok.. so i tend to agree that there's no issue here
10:34 mdke             earobinson, that's good to hear
10:34 mako             except i tend to agree that it would be really nice if we didn't split resources
                       or communities
10:34 Kingbahamut|Werk aggreed mdke
10:34 mako             the latter is actually more troubling to me
10:34 mako             i don't want there to be two doc teams
10:34 Kyral            mako++
10:34 mako             there are already many documents being created
10:35 bustacap         one stop doco shop
10:35 mako             maybe that's necessary.. but i'm not convinced it is
10:35 earobinson       mako, can you see any way that It could be made easy to copy docs to the wiki and
                       visa versa?
10:35 Kamion           it's possibly worth pointing out that the nature of human interaction means that
                       teams can only grow so big before they have to split in some way ...
10:35 manicka          mako: there isn't two doc teams. We are not a doc project
10:35 mdke             earobinson, it already is easy
10:35 mako             and we've run into a long history of problems with the apparent ghettoization of
                       the forums
10:35 Kyral            earobinson cut and paste?
10:35 Kamion           1000-person committees don't work
10:35 mako             manicka: you're writing documentation
10:35 Kyral            "ghettoization"?
10:35 mdke             earobinson, if you go to the forum howto section, there is a sticky on how to do
10:35 mako             Kyral: yes
10:35 Kyral            ???
10:35 manicka          no, i'm archiving forum data
10:35 mako             like a small community of people that are cut of from the larger group
10:36 Burgwork         Kyral,  a divide between the forums and rest of Ubuntu
10:36 manicka          I don't write any docs
10:36 Kyral            ah
10:36 mako             not consulted, politically disconnected
10:36 mdke             manicka, copying and pasting from the forum is a doc activity that would be really
                       useful in the Ubuntu wiki too
10:36 mako             disempowered
10:36 mako             etc
10:36 Burgwork         manicka, you are archive docs, thus you are creating docs
10:36 Kamion           mako: more like a large community of people cut off from the smaller group ;-)
10:36 mako             Kamion: true enough
10:36 earobinson       mdke, then there is no problem about spliting like mako said if it is easy
10:36 mako             manicka: there are many ways to create technical documentation
10:36 manicka          I disagree on that Burgwork
10:36 mako             and the docteam is open to all of them
10:36 Kyral            there is a general feeling like that in the Forums between some peopel
10:37 mako             Kyral: yes, that's my point
10:37 robotgeek        earobinson: the only issue is that someone has to do the same work over and over
10:37 mako             and my gut feeling is that the way to fix that is not to have the forums
                       documentation creation project and then the main project documentation project
10:37 Kyral            mako it should go smashy (and yes I use little language for laughs :P)
10:37 bustacap         the USDF folk should schedule a meeting with the ubuntu-doc team on IRC and
                       discuss the issues
10:37 Kyral            bustacap++
10:37 mako             i think that would be wonderful
10:37 vuntz            agree
10:37 earobinson       but mdke said it is easy to copy docs back and forth, robotgeek to so you dont
                       have to do the work 2 times
10:37 mako             that's just me speaking though
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10:37 Kingbahamut|Werk bustacap: we have and do still discuss
10:37 mako             Kingbahamut|Werk: good
10:38 mako             but as far as this issues goes
10:38 mako             i don't think there is a CC issue unless there is a conflict
10:38 mako             and both sides say there is not
10:38 bustacap         :)
10:38 earobinson       bustacap,++
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10:38 mdke             let's move on
10:38 mako             so please, go ahead, do good work
10:38 manicka          agreed: mako
                       and if the USDF folks want free advice, they should look into trying to work with
10:38 mako             others who are working toward the same goals (even if they're trying to get there
                       in different ways)
10:39 mako             :)
10:39 manicka          :)
10:39 Bonzodog         :)
10:39 bustacap         hear hear
10:39 mako             Kingbahamut|Werk: thanks for writing that up
10:39 Kyral            :)
10:39 raphink          :)
10:39 earobinson       :)
10:39 mako             the method of pulling things out of the forums seems like a great project
10:39 mako             i'd love to see as closely integrated into the rest of our documentation work as
                       possible :)
10:40 mdke             me too
10:40 earobinson       me 3
10:40 Kyral            me 4
10:40 Bonzodog         mako: feel free to have a good browse around the UDSF....
10:40 dihack           !define UDSF
10:40 mdke             moving on?
10:40 dihack           any google bot here? :)
10:40 Kyral            Ubuntu Doc Storage Facility
10:41 dihack           o ic
10:41 earobinson       dihack, link ->
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10:42 earobinson       mdke, ya I think so no problem so lets move on
10:42 mako             ok..
10:42 mako             for everyone that was offended
10:42 mako             i was not calling the forums "ghetto" in any sort of derogatory way
10:42 manicka          ok :)
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10:42 mako             you can look up the term if your curious
10:42 GnuKemist        mako no offense taken I'm sure
10:42 mdke             lol
10:42 mdke             americans...
10:42 mako             well, there was some
10:43 mako             because many people complained to ryan evidently :)
10:43 Kyral            mako, in the words of Dash Rendar. "I am not offended, I have been offended by
                       professionals" :P
10:43 mako             and i'm busying trying to explain myself in a query right now :)
10:43 Kyral            lol
10:43 GnuKemist        hehe
10:43 Bonzodog         lol
10:43 licio            :-)
10:43 Kyral            Ryan == ?
10:43 dihack           thanks guys, i planing to use ubuntu, just like ananda tell me how good ubuntu
10:43 mako             i merely wanted to make the point that i wanted more communcation between the
                       forums, people who use the forums, and th rest of the project
10:43 mdke             Kyral, forum administrator
10:43 mako             and more empowerment
10:43 mako             geez
10:43 Kyral            mdke: which one :P
10:43 ubuntugeek       yes, just here defending the ghettoization project..
10:43 mako             :)
10:44 Kyral            UG?
10:44 Kamion           wiki licensing
10:44 Kamion           (if we're done here ...)
10:44 mako             please
10:44 GnuKemist        hehe
10:44 Kamion           mdke: I think my concern on first reading is that the detail of "why" comes last
                       rather than first
10:44 mdke             Kamion, i was kinda hoping you guys would totally rewrite it
10:44 Kamion           heh
10:45 mdke             Kamion, I just chucked something down to start the ball rolling
10:45 vuntz            small comment about the proposed mail: we can't do public domain everywhere
10:45 vuntz            eg, I can't release my work as public domain in France
10:45 Kamion           it should also specify CC-PD
10:45 vuntz            (afaik)
10:45 mdke             vuntz, ??
10:45 mdke             you _have_ to retain copyright in what you write?
10:45 vuntz            yes
10:46 vuntz            well
10:46 vuntz            it's about "droits moraux"
10:46 Kyral            GFDL
10:46 Kamion           (FWIW is the text in question)
10:46 vuntz            not sure it exists everywhere
10:46 Kamion           Kyral: we had the licence argument last time, let's not have it again
10:46 Kyral            oh sorry
10:46 Kyral            lol
10:46 mdke             yes
10:46 vuntz            but you can say "do what you want with it"
10:46 vuntz            it's similar to public domain
10:46 mdke             hmm
10:46 vuntz            :-)
10:47 Kamion           vuntz's comment is a problem - I think it's true in Germany as well
10:47 smurf            mdke: you can grant all right to everybody, but there are some rights which you
                       can't disclaim or give away -- but you *can* not exercise them. Same in Germany.
10:47 vuntz            sorry guys, need to go
10:47 vuntz            good night
10:47 earobinson       bye vuntz
10:47 raphink          'night vuntz
10:47 mdke             smurf, i find that quite hard to follow. Does the text of CC-PD go against that?
10:48 GnuKemist        wouldn't that be waived off then if the author writes such a statement? that
                       he/she doesn't want to exercise any rights over the material?
10:48 Kamion           personally I sorta wish we'd suggested BSD last time, since that's not that far
                       from "PD but without the awkward disclaimer of copyright stuff"
10:48 elmo             Kamion: we can still do that
10:48 smurf            mdke: I haven't actually checked
10:48 smurf            Kamion: right
10:48 mdke             Kamion, but I believe BSD requires relicensing as BSD, no?
=== SauloCB [] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:48 elmo             but to be honest, "public domain" is easier, and better understood straing moral
                       rights of authorship in a small number of countries not withstanding
                       GnuKemist: none of us here are intellectual property lawyers (er, if somebody is,
10:48 Kamion           please speak up); inventing licences or guessing at their meaning in different
                       countries is a bad idea if you aren't one
10:49 GnuKemist        Kamion gotcha...
10:49 Kamion           mdke: just like PD, yes
10:49 \sh              elmo: to be more germany "public domain" means more "give it away
                       without any money, but copyright is mine"
10:49 Kamion           elmo: yeah, unfortunately I suspect the small number of countries are significant
                       in terms of authorship
10:49 elmo             I think we should go with "PD + (And if you can't do that, please use this
                       MIT/BSD/'tever [simplest]  license instead)
10:49 Kamion           so we probably ought to know what's going on
10:49 mdke             Kamion, is that true?
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10:49 Kamion           mdke: is what true?
10:49 elmo             mdke: of course it's true?
10:50 mdke             Kamion, there is nothing to suggest that a user can't relicense a derivative
10:50 elmo             oh, we've got cross wires
10:50 mako             the PD licenses from CC are really difficult to internationalize
10:50 elmo             mdke: you're talking about relicensing something under PD?
10:50 mdke             elmo, yes
10:50 LaserJock        how do these licenses effect doc team docs that want to use wiki material?
10:50 Kamion           sorry, I should say MIT really not BSD, thanks elmo
10:50 elmo             I think kamion and I are talking about the existing material
10:50 mdke             oh sorry
10:50 dihack           btw anyone can speak bahasa?
10:51 Kamion           LaserJock: the point of using a weak licence is to make it easy for docteam to
                       reuse material
10:51 mdke             Kamion, but the docteam relicenses their work
10:51 Kamion           that's one of the reasons GPL/GFDL/whatever would be awkward - they impose extra
                       constraints on the docteam
10:51 mdke             BSD/MIT don't allow that, afaics
10:51 Kamion           mdke: relicenses from what to what?
10:51 LaserJock        that's my concern
10:52 mdke             Kamion, the docteam takes wiki material, and puts it in docs licensed under
10:52 LaserJock        I would like to take wiki material and include it in a GPL doc
10:52 mdke             the BSD and MIT say, all copies and derivatives need to include the same license
                       The CC-PD dedication lacks something that would be a salvatory clause (as it's a
10:52 smurf            license and not a contract, wording that one is a bit tricky), if it had one I'd
                       be reasonably comfortable with it
10:52 elmo             mdke: why do the docteam need/want to do that?
                       mdke: other than PD, pretty much no licences allow arbitrary relicensing, but you
10:52 Kamion           can *incorporate* BSD-licensed material as long as you include the copyright
10:52 Kamion           which hardly seems onerous to me
10:53 smurf            Kamion: +1
10:53 mdke             Kamion, right
10:53 Kamion           what's the problem with "this document contains material released under the MIT
                       licence, reproduced here: <splat>"
10:53 Kamion           ?
10:53 mdke             elmo, more historical than anything else, afaics
10:53 Kamion           so long as the licences are compatible
                       I like PD because it matches how I think we can justify nationalizing the current
10:53 elmo             wiki content, that's the only reason I'm interested in keeping it as the
                       default.  relicensing under a more restrictive license by the community isn't
                       something I'd invisaged/intended
10:53 mdke             Kamion, i see no problem, but having so many licenses flying around might be a
                       little awkward
10:54 mako             mdke: i tend to think that you are more qualified to make this deiciosn than any
                       of us
10:54 elmo             mdke: it should only be 2/3 max?
10:54 mako             mdke: from both legal positions and from wiki positions :)
10:54 elmo             mdke: CC-BY-SA for the bulk, some GFDL (?) and now some MIT
10:54 Kamion           one problem with MIT/BSD would be that doing it right would require a copyright
                       notice for every contributor
10:54 elmo             any non-trivial software project is usually under at least that many licenses ;-)
10:54 mdke             elmo, i dunno, we just inherited those licenses, they can be rediscussed another
10:54 mdke             but I like PD too
10:54 Kamion           so yeah, as elmo says PD would be a lot simpler
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10:55 mdke             i'm slightly concerned by what smurf has said about german/french law
10:55 Kamion           mako: do you have any pet lawyers we could check this with? :)
10:55 elmo             Kamion: honestly, I think we should try to do that as best we can anyway
10:55 elmo             Kamion: and it could also be automated
10:55 mako             Kamion: i have a few :)
10:55 elmo             in much the same way as we're automating the mail
10:55 elmo             since wiki accounts are forever...
10:55 Kyral            they are?
10:56 mdke             Kyral, like diamonds
10:56 Kyral            lol
10:56 elmo             this draft needs a lot more work tho
10:56 mdke             what are we gonna do about this?
10:56 mako             mdke: better than diamonds
10:56 elmo             I don't suppose anyone could volunteer to do that?  I certainly don't have time
                       this week
10:56 bustacap         ship it off to legals :)
10:56 Kamion  has a good discussion FWIW
10:57 mdke             elmo, i'll do it if you give me some indication of what you want
10:57 elmo             my proposal is change it to "PD + MIT iff you can't"
                       mdke: I'd be far happier with a text that grants anybody who wants to use the text
10:57 smurf            all nonexclusive rights, that's at least an idea that's compatible with German
                       copyright law ;-)
10:57 Kamion           and has a
                       suggestion for countries where PD doesn't work
10:58 mdke             how about smurf's proposal
10:58 mdke             i like that
10:58 bustacap         an Ubuntu Document License ;D
10:58 Kamion           "The copyright holder of this [work]  allows anyone to use it for any purpose,
                       including unrestricted redistribution, commercial use, and modification."
=== bustacap is evil for suggesting such a thing..
10:58 smurf            Kamion: that would work
10:58 Kyral            lol
10:58 Kamion           oh, sorry, not that bit
10:58 Kamion           "I, the creator of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This
                       applies worldwide.
10:58 Kamion           In case this is not legally possible:
10:58 Kamion           I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions,
                       unless such conditions are required by law.
10:58 Kamion           "
10:59 Kamion           dunno if that's been legally vetted though
10:59 elmo             that works for me
10:59 earobinson       Kamion, thats looks like a good idea
10:59 bustacap         hehe call it the UDL
10:59 mako             ok.. i can run it by a lawyer
10:59 mdke             Kamion, worksforme too
10:59 mako             if you want
10:59 earobinson       Do the pest we can and if not just set it free
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10:59 elmo             mako: US or !?
=== Ubuntuser_Ba [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:59 mako             US
10:59 Kamion           mdke: I can do some other work on the draft tomorrow if you like
10:59 mako             but who knows that the world beyond exists
10:59 elmo             err ! ?, as in not, not omglol explanationism
10:59 mdke             Kamion, that would be great
10:59 Kamion           trying to change the emphasis a bit
11:00 mako             alright
11:00 mako             we don't need to hash this out here
                       Kamion: it only says, that the copyright is hold by the original author, but
11:00 \sh              everyone is free to use it without any legal restrictions...that's very compatible
                       with the european union...until someone has more clue about european copyright
11:00 mako             we're 1h into this.. i'm a little worried about time :)
11:00 mako             can we move on?
11:00 mdke             yep, i'm happy
11:00 \sh              s/hold/held/
11:00 Kyral            and I'm hungry... :P
11:00 mako             mdke: nice
11:00 earobinson       me 2 Kyral
11:00 mdke             thanks for finding that Kamion
11:01 mako             alright
11:01 smurf            mako: +1
11:01 mako             og's comment we can skip
11:01 mako             since it doesn't need to be seen by this group
11:01 mako             any other non-member, non-loco business?
11:01 mako             alright
11:01 GnuKemist        mako any way I can speed this up?
11:01 mako             guerby: we're doing this as fast as we can
11:01 mako             GnuKemist: ^^
11:01 mdke             GnuKemist, mail the address I noted
11:02 mako             oh, you mean the shipment
11:02 GnuKemist        mdke k...  thanks
11:02 GnuKemist        mako yes
11:02 mako   
11:02 guerby           mako, hi :)
11:02 mako             alright
11:02 mako             guerby: tab completions :)
11:02 guerby           yeah :)
=== matthew5 [] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
11:03 mako             alright
11:03 mako             any loco teams not on the agenda that are here
11:03 mako             new ones
11:03 mako             ?
11:03 mako             no
11:03 mako             alright members
11:03 GnuKemist        unfortunately I can't stay any longer... but left testimonial for licio ...  take
                       care everyone
11:03 Riddell          jpatrick would like to go first for membership, he has to get away
11:03 GnuKemist        licio break a leg buddy
11:04 mako             everyone should have or should now prepare 1-3 sentences on their work on ubuntu
                       and where they want to tkae the project
11:04 Ubuntuser_Ba     yeah!
11:04 mako             Riddell: ok
11:04 anandaputra      i'm ready..
11:04 manicka          ok
11:04 earobinson       ready
=== bustacap is Naaman Campbell
11:04 lmanul           Same
11:04 bustacap         right to go..
=== lmanul is Manu Cornet
11:04 earobinson       (assuming I can cut and paste from my wiki page)
11:04 ogra             lmanul, oh, you dropped some l's :)
=== licio is Licio Fernando
11:05 lmanul           ogra, yeah, easier to tab-complete ^^
11:05 dihack           wait i'm new here, here for helping ananda
11:05 manicka          <-- Grant Galbraith
=== Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
11:05 earobinson       well jpatrick should go first if he has to go soon ....
11:06 raphink          go jpatrick go :)
11:07 Kyral            go go go :P
11:07 earobinson       MIA?
11:07 raphink          earobinson: ?
11:07 earobinson       yes?
11:08 raphink          MIA?
11:08 ogra             missing in action
11:08 mako             sorry.. lost my connection there for a second
11:08 earobinson       missing in action
11:08 raphink          ogra: oh ok :)
11:08 earobinson       want a cut and paste pm mako
11:08 bustacap         mako, yay, we need some adjudication.. :)
11:08 mdke             earobinson, he didn't leave the channel
11:08 mdke             let's go dudes
=== dihack idban secandri
11:09 raphink          yep
11:09 earobinson       if jpatrick is not going do you want me to?
11:09 ogra             so it seems jpatrick isnt around then ...
11:09 mako             jpatrick: ?
11:09 mako             alright
11:09 bustacap         I need to head off to work soon..
11:09 raphink          jpatrick: ...
11:09 mako             well lets move on
11:09 earobinson       ok well im really going to cut and paste from my wiki page
11:09 Kamion           earobinson: ok, go
11:09 earobinson       Activity
11:09 earobinson          1.
11:09 earobinson             Spreading the Ubuntu spirit. I do this by showing many people the
                       distribution and open source programs in general. Also I give out the CDs!
11:09 earobinson          2.
11:09 earobinson             I am very active on the Ubuntu forums ([WWW]  Team Leader) and provide
                       support and focused mostly on providing support.
11:10 earobinson          3.
11:10 earobinson             I have been running dapper to aid with the testing.
                       My name is Edward Robinson currently living in Ontario, Canada. Im a computer
11:10 earobinson       science major at the University of Toronto and I have been using Linux since 2003
                       and Ubuntu since May 2005.
                       I would like to see Ubuntu grow, and more users being able to use Ubuntu problem
11:10 earobinson       free. To do this I feel that One of the most important things is to support new
                       users, and the Ubuntu forums have played a very important role in this. I would
                       like to continue to become a part of this growing community, and to grow with it.
11:10 Kamion           anyone like to speak up for earobinson's support skills?
11:10 Kamion           s/skills/contributions/ perhaps
11:10 Kyral            He has been active on the Forums..
11:10 earobinson       In time I would like to get more and more involved as school and work let me, I
                       have worked with a lot of people on the forums like Kingbahamut|Werk  and Kyral
11:11 mdke             i've read a number of posts by earobinson on the forum (community related, rather
                       than support) and he seems very sensible
11:11 earobinson       *blush*
11:11 Kyral            but I haven't been on the Forums in a while
11:11 manicka          earobinson is very active on the forums and gives good advice
11:11 mako             earobinson: have you been contributing since last may?
11:12 earobinson       I have been around for a long time
11:12 manicka          as a staff member he keeps me busy with mod reports about various issues
11:12 earobinson       but I really started about 6 months ago
11:12 Kamion           what kind of issues?
11:12 earobinson       really started to pick it up
11:12 earobinson       Kamion, everything from geting posts moved to the correct forum to reporting abuse
                       and spam
11:12 manicka          posts in incorrect forums etc
11:13 earobinson       Just try to help things run good as they can
11:13 manicka          and abuse and spam
11:13 earobinson <- for anyone that wants it
=== mako has already read it
11:15 mako             are there current members here who can vouch for earobinson
11:15 mako             ?
11:15 Kyral            I can
11:15 earobinson       a couple did no?
11:15 mdke             I did
11:15 mako             mdke: right
11:16 mako             well, 1200+ posts over 6 months counts as both significant and sustained in my
=== mako is happy for membership
11:16 earobinson       is Kingbahamut|Werk here? Im sure he would vote for me
11:16 Kingbahamut|Werk yes I am
11:16 earobinson       thanks mako
11:16 Kingbahamut|Werk and yes I would earobinson
11:16 mako             Kamion, elmo: ?
11:16 Kyral            earobinson++
11:17 earobinson       thanks Kingbahamut|Werk
11:17 Kamion           fine by me
11:17 elmo             yeah, me too
11:17 mako             alright thne
11:17 mako             PROGRESS
11:17 earobinson       and Kyral and mdke
11:17 bddebian         heh
11:17 mako             earobinson: welcome
11:17 mdke             welcome earobinson
11:17 Kamion           sorry, I usually get lost in browsing forum posts when this sort of thing comes up
11:17 ogra             welcome earobinson
11:17 mako             was there someone else who was about to leave?
11:17 mako             who is on the roster?
11:17 bustacap         yeah..
11:17 Kyral            drinks are on you earobinson ;P
11:17 Ubuntuser_Ba     Congratulations earobinson!
11:17 earobinson       thanks all
11:18 mako             otherwise, we can maintain some semblance of order
11:18 mdke             bustacap is up next
11:18 raphink          congrats
=== kjcole blows a clarion
=== Kyral is hungry ;P
11:18 anandaputra      congrats earobinson!
11:18 mdke             both in terms of leaving soon, and being next on the list
11:18 Ubuntuser_Ba     welcome to Ubuntu Team!
11:18 licio            Congratulations earobinson :-)
11:18 mako             who is bustacap?
=== bustacap is Naaman Campbell
11:18 earobinson       :)
11:19 mako             very recently added i see :)
11:19 elmo             oh, _that's_ what humbug stands for
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11:19 mako             i've heard of humbug :)
11:20 bustacap         Sweet..
11:20 earobinson       mako anything i need to know / do now?
11:20 Kamion           the corporate/sunray documents are pretty impressive
11:20 mdke             the docs on the wiki are good
11:20 mdke             whiprush has blogged about em with high praise
11:20 elmo             bustacap: (nitpick: vigr is preferred to vi-ing e/tc/group directly)
11:20 bustacap         That's my main tangent at the moment, is joining the wiki team
11:20 mako             bustacap: how long have you been involved in writing these docs?
11:21 mako             bustacap: the first bug i see from you is 3 weeks ago
11:21 bustacap         and continuing writing more large doco
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11:21 mako             bustacap: are you active in any team yet?
11:21 bustacap         yeah, my time for bugs is dictated by work..
=== Snake__ is Ken Minardo
11:21 bustacap         I have pending applications for Ubuntu and the Wiki team
11:21 mako             that's fine.. i'm just trying to get a sense for how long you've been involved so
11:21 Kamion           vigr> or just 'adduser cupsys shadow', in this case
11:22 bustacap         I wish to get involved in the doc team after settling into the wiki team
11:22 mdke             bustacap, we don't do "applications" on the wiki team, just join the mailing list,
                       and #ubuntu-doc and get communicating. It will be nice to see you
11:22 bustacap         and perhaps the direction of it as well..
11:22 mako             yes.. the sunray page is very impressive
11:22 mdke             wiki team = doc team
11:22 mako             right
11:22 bustacap         ok :)
11:22 mako             both pages are great actually
11:23 bustacap         the sunray page is part of getting Ubuntu a higher share of the business desktop
11:23 bustacap         I would like to be involved in a team/discussions relating to the business use of
11:24 mako             right
11:24 Kamion           TBH I'm happy, the sort of sysadmin commitment involved here implies sustained
                       involvement, I think
11:24 bustacap         part of fixing bug #1 :)
11:24 mako             ok.. these pages are like 2 months old
11:24 mako             and show a pretty consitent involvement over that period
11:25 bustacap         yes and I wish to maintain the level as well..
11:25 ogra             bustacap, do you run the thin clients with ubuntu ltsp ?
11:25 mako             i'd like to see you *surpass* that level :)
11:25 bustacap         yes..
11:25 ogra             wow, cool
11:25 bustacap         so would I mako :)
11:26 mako             alright, i'd love to see you actually get involved in the some of the teams
11:26 mako             your work is *great* but it's almost all stuff you've worked on independently
11:27 mako             Kamion: what do you think?
11:27 bustacap         yes, that's why I wanted to gain membership status, to join teams, have a say,
11:27 mako             bustacap: you don't need to gain membership status to join teams :)
11:27 mako             in fact, it's quite the opposite
11:27 ogra             you can join teams without being a member (at least in MOTU)
11:28 ogra             (or edubuntu)
11:28 mako             memberships status i usually only given to people who are already active in teams!
11:28 mako             bustacap: since nobody else is speaking up..
=== Snake__ [] has left #ubuntu-meeting
11:29 Kamion           mako: if you hadn't said anything I'd've been happy to say yes, I Think
11:29 Kamion           s/T/t
11:29 mako             alright
11:29 mako             i don't know what that means :)
                       since there's significant/sustained contribution there and I like the sound of
11:29 Kamion           sysadmins in big corporates getting involved and documenting publicly what they're
=== mako nods
11:29 mako             alright then
11:30 elmo             I'm happy to agree with either of you, so don't look at me to tie break :-P
11:30 Kyral            hehe
=== mako is fine with membership and is looking forward to good team contributions
11:30 bustacap         Kamion, I think it is a good direction for sysadmins working on Ubuntu..
11:30 mdke             lol @elmo
11:30 mako             bustacap: thanks for your contributions so far.. i'm looking forward to more :)
11:31 Kamion           bustacap: sysadmin is so often reinvent-the-wheel-city, I can only see good coming
                       from documenting more of it
11:31 bustacap         mako, you shall see more, thank you..
11:31 mako             bustacap: i think that means welcome :)
11:31 ogra             welcome bustacap
11:31 bustacap         thanks dude
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11:31 Kamion           yup, works for me, thanks for your work so far
11:31 mako             licio: is next
11:31 Ubuntuser_Ba     another to family... Welcome bustacap!
11:31 mako             licio: cute hackergotchi
11:32 mdke             -> bed, thanks all
11:32 Kyral            Hip Hip HOORAY! :P
11:32 licio            mako, :-)
11:32 \sh              Kamion: is your statement "sysadmin is so often reinvent-the-wheel-city" BSD
                       licensed? :)
11:32 Ubuntuser_Ba     is very Ugly... :)
=== dop182 [i=dop182@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:32 bustacap         thanks guys..
11:32 Kamion           \sh: please take it outside the meeting
11:32 \sh              (so I could use it on a geek shirt) :)
11:32 earobinson       welcome bustacap
11:32 mako             licio: introduce yourself
                       i'm a 20-years-old Computer Science student from Belo Horizonte, Brazil. I
                       consider myself a supporter of the open source community/movement, a feeling that
11:33 licio            was extremelly augmented when I first started using GNU/Linux in 2001. My first
                       distro was Conectiva Linux (now known as Mandriva), later replaced by Debian which
                       I used until october of 2004. I was very satisfied with Debian but somehow I felt
                       that there was something else missing. That's w
11:33 licio            hen I first tried Ubuntu 4.10, a true love at first sight!
11:33 mako             man.. today it's all slackers.. just pasting from their wiki pages
11:33 Kamion           janimo: around? anything to say about licio re xubuntu?
                       'Lately I've been working with the effort to translate Ubuntu and packages to
11:33 licio            pt_BR, "hunting" for bugs, supporting users at #ubuntu-br, and helping with the
                       maintenance of the Brazilian wiki pages by translating documentation and creating
                       tutorials (most seen at
11:33 mako             licio's karma has something to say about licio
11:33 Kamion           usual translator infinite karma of DEATH :)
11:33 mako             something like, "LOTS OF TRANSLATIONS"
11:34 mako             licio: you're work is well represented in LP
11:34 licio            :-)
11:34 segfault         he's a translator warrior
11:34 Ubuntuser_Ba     Yes.. is one member expressive!
11:34 segfault         he even surpassed my karma recently
11:34 licio            thanks
11:34 segfault         :(
11:34 Kamion           quality still good?
11:35 mako             licio: how long have you been involved?
11:35 segfault         sure
11:35 mako             a number of bugs too
11:35 Ubuntuser_Ba     licio is one member active in the Planeta Ubuntu Brasil!!
11:36 Ubuntuser_Ba     in the IRC channel
11:36 segfault         he was translating upstream, but some members were having some problems with
                       commiting their changes
11:36 Ubuntuser_Ba     and Forum too
=== lambert [] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
11:36 segfault         so he chose rosetta
=== mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
11:36 mako             alright
=== arzajac [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:37 mako             i'm happy with membership for the combination of contributions
11:37 licio            mako, 6 months
11:37 mako             and the testimionaials
11:37 mako             licio: sounds good :)
11:37 Ubuntuser_Ba     The Brazil.. puting the Ubuntu in the Top!!
11:37 licio            mako, :-D
11:37 Tonio_           :)
11:38 Kamion           licio++ from me to
11:38 Kamion           too
11:39 elmo             ack
=== dop182 [i=dop182@] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
11:39 mako             alright then
11:39 mako             licio: welcome!
11:39 Ubuntuser_Ba     Congratulations my friend licio!!!
=== ogra applauds in brazilian direction
11:39 Ubuntuser_Ba     Thanks ogra!
11:39 segfault         licio: congrats!
11:39 mako             manicka: you're up?
11:39 licio            mako, and all thanks
=== Kyral pulls out a compass and tries to find Brazil lol
11:39 manicka          ok
                       My main claim for membership stems from the sustained and ongoing support that I
                       have provided to users on Ubuntuforums since May 2005. My focus is on technical
11:40 manicka          support for new users and general desktop support. My contributions in this area
                       (1500+ posts) have recently been recognised by being accepted as a member of the
                       moderating staff on the Forums. I am also a regular visitor to several ubuntu
                       related IRC channels.
11:40 Ubuntuser_Ba     Yes.. welcome to family!!
                       One of my largest contributions at the Forums, apart from user support, has been
11:40 manicka          as a founding member of the Ubuntu Document Storage Facility,
                       the knowledgebase and repository of Forum data. The UDSF has already been
                       discussed in some detail today so I won't explain its purpose any further here.
11:40 manicka  <-->
11:40 raphink          Kyral: rooh
11:41 Kyral            manicka told me he was interested in helping with Edubuntu...
=== ryanxiety [] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
11:41 ogra             manicka, oooh, please drop by in #edubuntu if this is true :)
11:42 manicka          Yes, I'm a teacher and wnat to be more involved in edubuntu
11:42 manicka          will do
11:42 ogra             great :)
11:42 mako             manicka: wow, that's great :)
11:42 FLeiXiuS         manicka: edubuntu + freenx :-)
11:42 FLeiXiuS         Makes for one hell of a solution for thin clients.
11:42 Kyral            oyah
11:42 manicka          it's part of my plans for the future
11:42 Kyral            FreeNX++ ;P
11:43 mako             kassetra: thanks for your testimonial
11:43 earobinson       I would like to show support for manicka (not sure if it counts till next meeting)
11:43 Kyral            kass is here?
11:44 Kyral            I vouch for him
11:44 Bonzodog         manicka is real core part of the UDSF...his contribution has proven invaluable
11:44 Ubuntuser_Ba     bye friends.. I have to go now..
11:44 kassetra         mako: manicka really goes above and beyond the call of duty as a staff member on
                       the forums.
11:44 earobinson       guess so Kyral
11:45 FLeiXiuS         manicka is a beast, so I hear.
11:45 manicka          lol
11:45 FLeiXiuS         ;-)
=== Ubuntuser_Ba [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
11:45 FLeiXiuS         kassetra: My fuze came in today, she'll be pleased to see it.
11:46 mako             manicka: how long have you been involved?
11:46 Kamion           sorry, was browsing forum links again ... manicka seems to have contributed plenty
                       forums-wise, and having more moderators as members is always great
11:46 manicka          since may 2005
=== mako nods to kassetra
11:46 mako             well
11:46 Kyral            Thats almost as long as I...
11:46 mako             to Kamion  too
11:47 earobinson       Kamion, Ya I think its a very good thing
11:47 elmo             I'm fine for membership
=== ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mako also
11:48 mako             win 18
=== mako blushes
11:48 Kamion           ok, sounds good to me, welcome manicka
11:48 Kyral            mischan?
11:48 mako             manicka: welcome
11:48 Kyral            Congrats manicka!
11:48 manicka          thankyou
11:48 earobinson       grats manicka
11:48 mako             Tonio_: around?
11:48 licio            mako, welcome :-)
11:48 Bonzodog         congrats manicka
=== ogra shouts something non CoC compliant in direction of his DSL provider ...
=== Kyral jump hugs manicka
11:48 Tonio_           yep
11:48 mako             go go go
11:48 Tonio_           My name's Anthony Mercatante, living in Paris, France.
11:48 Tonio_           My Wiki page :
11:48 Tonio_           Launchpad :
                       I mostly contributed by providing packages, but also depending on the context and
11:48 Tonio_           the help needed on the moment, which includes testing, icons designing or
                       submitting ideas for default configuration etc...
                       My motivations are simple. I like Ubuntu, and I really think it has the potential
11:48 Tonio_           of the best desktop linux distro out there (if not already). So I appreciate to
                       give "my two cents" of contribution.
11:49 ogra             congrats manicka
11:49 manicka          thanks everyone :)
                       Tonio is a major contributor in Kubuntu development. I care particularly about his
11:49 raphink          membership since he was the one bringing me to package ubuntu apps, which is now
                       my main activity with reviewing ;)
11:49 elmo             I don't even have to look at Tonio's wikipage, I recognise his name from the flood
                       of KDE new packages
11:49 raphink          he maintains about 20 packages in Ubuntu
11:49 Kyral            He's very active in MOTU (to say the least)
11:49 raphink          :)
=== mako nods to elmo
11:49 raphink          yeah
11:49 Tonio_           elmo: ^^ thanks ;)
11:49 mako             elmo: however, you should
11:49 mako             because it's also a very good page
11:50 elmo             heh
11:50 raphink          to the opinion of many, Tonio should already be a MOTU, had he taken the
                       opportunity to apply
11:50 mako             Tonio_: if i wasn't convinced BEFORE seeing your page, i would be convinced now
11:50 mako             Tonio_: how long have you been involved?
11:50 mako             (i've asked everyone else)
11:50 Tonio_           mako: nice to ear :)
11:50 minghua          yeah, impressive package list, nice job Tonio_
11:50 Tonio_           mako: I'm involved since march/april 2005
11:50 ogra             Tonio_, so did you dive with sharks already ?
11:50 mako             Tonio_: nice :)
11:51 mako             ramping up i see
11:51 Tonio_           the day I decided to use linux as replacement for my win XP, and installed ubuntu
11:51 Riddell          Tonio_'s done lots of stuff for kubuntu, he's long past due membership
11:51 Tonio_           I felt in love with it's community, really
11:51 ogra             Riddell++
=== mako nods to Riddell
11:51 Kyral            Do we even need to vote? ;P
11:51 raphink          hehe
11:51 Kamion           Tonio_++ as far as I'm concerned anyway
11:51 raphink          ;)
11:51 mako             Tonio_: thank you for making a great wiki page, for doing great work
11:51 mako             i'm happy with membership
11:51 Kamion           good work
11:51 raphink          no vote required, this is just recognition de facto
11:51 Tonio_           thanks everyone, that's a pleasure to ear !
11:52 mako             Tonio_: we may use your wiki page to show to other applicants and example :)
11:52 Kyral            I think if someone didn't vote right now, they'd be collectively smacked :P
11:52 anandaputra      hi all.. when is my turn? it was 5 am here in Indonesia and i'm very sleepy.. :D
11:52 mako             anandaputra: you're next :)
11:52 mako             anandaputra: go :)
11:52 Tonio_           mako: you should look at raphink's one....
11:52 Tonio_           by far better than my one
11:52 mako             Tonio_: i have
11:52 mako             the quality of wiki pages have imporved a lot in the last 2 months
                       My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
                       totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:52 anandaputra      Enthusiasts Society ( in 2001 until 2003. We've made
                       some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
                       Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
                       used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:52 anandaputra      I'm 26 years old man
11:52 raphink          welcome to the team (officially) Tonio_ ;)
=== raphink hugs Tonio
11:53 Tonio_           thanks everyone !
                       My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
                       totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:53 anandaputra      Enthusiasts Society ( in 2001 until 2003. We've made
                       some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
                       Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
                       used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:53 mako             deja vu
                       My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
                       totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:53 anandaputra      Enthusiasts Society ( in 2001 until 2003. We've made
                       some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
                       Indonesia). I'm using Redhat 6.0 for my first time Linux distro, and than I had
                       used Slackware for my works for the long time until I insta
11:53 smurf            anandaputra: 200-character limit per line
11:53 raphink          hmmpf
11:54 smurf            anandaputra: cut off after "for the long time"
11:54 mako             is there anyone here who can speak up for anandaputra?
11:54 anandaputra      ups.. sorry..
11:54 mako             i see a small number of (2 month old) translations in rosetta and not a whole lot
                       of other documentation
                       My name is Ananda Putra. Currently I'm living in Jakarta, Indonesia. I've been
                       totally using Linux since 1999. I was Chairman of Bandung Linux Users &
11:54 anandaputra      Enthusiasts Society ( in 2001 until 2003. We've made
                       some activity to spread Linux and free software paradigm in our town (Bandung,
=== ogra_ [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:55 dihack           i do tell him :)
11:57 anandaputra      Yes.. I still have no direct contribution to Ubuntu yet..
11:57 Riddell          anandaputra: how active is #ubuntu-id and is there an indonesian loco team?
11:57 anandaputra      But I do some advocacy here
11:57 mako             anandaputra: ok.. i'd ask you to build up a profile and resume of some of those
                       direct contributions
11:57 anandaputra      I encouraged people for using Ubuntu in Indonesia
11:57 mako             anandaputra: and then come back for membership :)
11:57 mako             anandaputra: right.. that work is *greatly* appreciated
11:58 mako             anandaputra: but we still need documentation of that
11:58 mako             anandaputra: and i don't see a lot of that
11:58 mako             anandaputra: that doesn't mean you haven't done it or that we don't appreciate
                       it.. it's just not clear from looking at your patge
11:58 anandaputra
11:58 lmanul           (If I could be next, I'd be really grateful, getting late over here :)  )
11:58 dihack           maybe you interst to read that article
11:58 dihack           it about ubuntu shipping
11:59 mako             lmanul: it's long for all of us.. we're going as fast as we can
11:59 dihack           :(
11:59 lmanul           mako, np
11:59 ogra_            mako, lmanul was on top of the list initially :)
11:59 mako             lmanul: you're next then
11:59 lmanul           :)
11:59 lmanul           All right
11:59 mako             dihack: now is not the time to be bringing new things up
11:59 mako             we apprecaite you work
11:59 earobinson       I only went cuz no one else was going sorry
                       My name is Manu Cornet, I'm a 24 year-old French guy living in Paris, France. I'm
                       currently a PhD student in bioinformatics, as well as a musician, graphics
12:00 lmanul           designer and author of a few books. I'm a member of the Desktop Team, GNOME team
                       and Art Team, active on IRC channels (#ubuntu-desktop, #ubuntu-fr, #ubuntu) and
                       mailing lists (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-devel).
12:00 mako             but as it's currently documented, i don't think it would be fair to others we have
                       asked to come back
12:00 mako             lmanul: hold up dude :)
12:00 mako             lmanul: we're not done with anandaputra
12:00 lmanul           Woops :-p
12:00 mako             jumped the gun
12:00 lmanul           Sorry, my "Enter" slipped :-p
12:00 mako             anandaputra: if you want, you can run the page by me or other people from the CC
12:00 anandaputra      As a matter of fact, I've not own any computer right now, so I always bring Ubuntu
                       Install CD and Ubuntu Live CD..
12:01 mako             anandaputra: that's great
12:01 mako             anandaputra: but we need to document your direct contributions before we can grant
                       you membership
12:01 mako             anandaputra: so lets work on that for another meeting :)
12:01 mako             anandaputra: hopefully one at a more convenient time for you :)
12:01 mako             anandaputra: ok?
12:02 anandaputra      ok than..
                    yeah, what mako said - I don't imagine it'll be a problem once we
12:03 Kamion        have a good account of what you've done, it's just a matter of
                    laying that out for us
12:03 mako          anandaputra: cool.. email with me beforehand if you're unclear
12:04 mako          lmanul: alright
12:04 mako          lmanul: you're up
12:04 lmanul        :)
12:05 mako          lmanul: no need to repost
12:05 mako          lmanul: but give us MORE
12:05 anandaputra   ok.. thanks mako..
                    I first started using Linux back in 1999 with a "Yellow dog"
                    distro onto my iMac. Since then, I've been using Debian quite a
12:05 lmanul        lot, until I found out about Ubuntu in spring 2005, simply fell
                    in love with it, and decided to let it replace Debian on my 3
                    boxes (incl a server). Ubuntu had reached the point where I could
                    really advise my non-computer-aware friends to switch to Linux.
                    I then began to really contribute when I participated in Google's
                    "Summer of Code 2005", and I had so much fun hacking Ubuntu and
12:05 lmanul        GNOME with the help of seb128 that I never stopped :) So here I
                    am, wanting to really be part of the community, and keep on
                    hacking (especially on UI issues) to make Ubuntu even easier to
                    use and even nicer to look at !
                    Wiki page ( ) and launchpad (
12:05 lmanul ) but they mostly link
                    to where I described what I've
                    been doing for Ubuntu.
12:05 lmanul        A few recommandations :
12:05 lmanul
12:05 lmanul        And I think vuntz /queried Kamion a little while ago to give some
                    recommandation about me as well
12:06 mako          cool
12:06 mako          i know you
12:06 ogra          do we really need recommendations ?
12:06 lmanul        And huh, dholbach doesn't seem to be here :)
12:06 ogra          lmanul, brought us the new logout dialog
12:06 seb128        I think you have enough without him :p
12:06 earobinson    summer of code wow!
12:06 lmanul        ;-)
12:06 ogra          that speaks for itself :)
12:06 Kyral         umm, nuff said?
                    18:28 <vuntz> Manu has been helping enthusiastically in the past
12:06 Kamion        few months: he's implemented features, giving feedback, etc., and
                    (this is most important) he has contributed to the "love"
                    atmosphere of the
12:06 Kamion                      desktop team. And he's French. So I support his
                    application :-)
12:07 Kyral         lol
12:07 ogra          oh, and dont forget the add to panel dialog ...
12:07 licio         :-)
                    "lmanul is a great contibutor for the desktop teams for some
                    months now. He started with a bounty for the Google summer of
                    code, working on the "add to panel" dialog for gnome-panel we
12:07 seb128        ship at the moment and some change for gnome-menus/admin. He's
                    responsive since on the bugs on the code he wrote, helps on bug
                    triage, worked on a separator applet for gnome-applets (which is
                    shipped upstream now), did the patch for the new gnome-session
12:07 seb128        g and the icons for it, and is active on IRC and on the desktop
                    list. I recommend it for ubuntu membership
12:07 seb128        "
12:07 mako          is being french an asset or a liability? <duck>
12:07 seb128        that's what I wrote, better and the URI :p
12:07 mako          it depends on if you're trying to sign a contract i guess ;)
12:08 earobinson    lol
12:08 mako          according to elmo, it's very complicating and somehow involves
                    the marquis de sade
12:08 ogra          mako, you could always pretend to be a french speaking brazilian
12:08 seb128        beeing french make easier for you to read #ubuntu-desktop
                    sometime :)
12:08 lmanul        haha
12:08 mako          seb128: i imagine :)
12:08 seb128        :p
                    I'm impressed by all the desktop contributions and I'm
12:09 Kamion        particularly pleased to see people continuing to work on Ubuntu
                    after the Summer of Code
12:09 mako          Kamion: amen :)
12:09 mako          lmanul: thrilled to have your contributions to date
12:09 mako          and looking forward to the future
12:09 mako          lots of good stuff
=== mako is happy with membership
12:09 Kamion        me too if it wasn't clear
12:09 elmo          ack too
=== ogra waits for lmanul's gdm rewrite in dapper+1
12:09 mako          lmanul: welcome :)
12:10 lmanul        Thanks a lot guys !
12:10 ogra          welcome lmanul
12:10 lmanul        ogra, I'll do my best :-p
12:10 seb128        lamont: congrats :)
12:10 raphink       welcome lmanul
12:10 ogra          *g*
12:10 seb128        ups
12:10 seb128        lmanul: congrats :)
12:10 ogra          lool
12:10 lmanul        Thanks everyone
12:10 licio         Congratulations lmanul
12:11 freeflying_   mako:  May I be the next
12:11 mako          freeflying_: you are next
                    I live in China PRC , my name is Hou ZhengPeng , a member of
                    ubuntu-cn locoteam .I've worked on package for kubuntu ,  do my
                    best for BetterCJKsupport and do some test about CJK also I have
12:11 freeflying_   translated some docs about ubntu into chinese . My future plan
                    focus on following two : 1 promote the using of ubuntu in chinese
                    ,2 establish kubuuntu-zh website for chinese 3 continue
                    BetterCJKSupport spec
12:11 freeflying_   My wiki page
12:12 Riddell       freeflying_ has been doing great at telling me what to do to get
                    CKJ support in kubuntu better
12:12 mako          freeflying_: i'd personally like to work with you on some of your
                    input method work :)
12:12 ogra          mako, minghua is applying for membership today too :)
12:13 minghua       I read freeflying_'s (and other ubuntu-cn people's) work on
12:13 ogra          seems we finally have some people to solve input methds
12:13 mako          ogra: yes
12:13 minghua       they've done very well documentation work there, helping new
                    users in the forums
12:13 Riddell       he's also packaged various CKJ fonts and skim input for kubuntu,
                    so I'm all for his membership
=== ogra thinks it smells like a MOTUInput team :)
12:13 mako          are the ubuntu-tw , ubuntu-cn and ubuntu-hk teams all
                    collaborating on doc stuff?
12:13 mako          the wikipage seems to imply that
12:14 minghua       I also think freeflying_'s English skill is important for
                    communication between Chinese users and the whole community
12:14 freeflying_   mako: y , we are working on that
12:14 mako          wow, that's great :)
                    on freeflying and minghua are doing a great job in teaching motus
12:14 \sh           and main devs how to use input methods...they helped a lot to
                    find some issues in qt3 and the immodule patch :)
12:14 mako          debian had some pretty famous political problems in this regard
                    minghua: I guess we'll get to you in a moment, but are you in
12:14 Kamion        broad agreement with freeflying_ on the direction we need to take
                    on input methods?
12:14 minghua       I also appreciate his BetterCJKSupport proposal, which attracted
                    quite some people
=== mako nods to minghua
12:15 mako          i think this is one of the major areas that ubuntu needs to focus
                    energy in the next year or two
12:15 minghua       Kamion: that depends on what he want to do with input method
12:15 mako          minghua: i'd like to have them connected to language packs
12:16 minghua       I've not talked with freeflying_ much on input method issue, and
                    I don't really know his plan
12:16 mako          and have necessary configuration happen automagically
12:16 minghua       mako: we can get to it when it's my turn :-)
12:16 mako          cool
12:16 mako          freeflying_: how long have you been involved?
12:16 mako          ogra: how long have you seen freeflying_'s contributions?
12:17 mako          because the wikpage shows great work but seems a little thin IMHO
12:17 freeflying_   mako: 5/2005
12:17 Riddell       he's been around for a good while
12:17 mako          the magic month
=== mako nods
12:17 ogra          mako, i'm not deep into KDE stuff, but since quite some time
12:17 minghua       freeflying_: I am interested in mako's question about cn, tw,
                    hk's collaboration as well
12:17 freeflying_   minghua: we may talk about that sonner after
12:17 Riddell       and is on #kubuntu-devel daily
12:17 mako          *some* amount of collaboration is going to be necessary in that
                    we all work together at a common place
12:17 freeflying_   s/sonner/sooner
12:17 mako          but if we can have more direct collaboration on obviously related
                    problems, that's *awesome*
12:18 ogra          mako++
12:18 minghua       mako: the BetterCJKSupport proposal work is done by all CJK
12:18 mako          great
12:18 mako          ok..
12:18 mako          lets get back to freeflying_'s application
12:18 mako          since it's been over 2 hours now
12:18 Kyral         yes...please...
12:18 minghua       but on the documentation side what I've seen is completed
                    separated work
12:18 Kyral         Kyral....hungry....
12:19 mako          Riddell, ogra: would you be ok with membership or prefer to wait
                    a meeting or two
=== ogra goes with Riddell, he can judge the KDE side better
12:19 Riddell       mako: he's been around long enough and has consistenly been
                    helping with CJK, I'm all in support of his membership
12:20 mako          alright..
=== \sh agrees with riddell
12:20 Riddell       and tests dapper frequently for CJK and other issues
12:20 mako          freeflying_: are you involved in an loco team?
12:20 freeflying_   mako:  sure ubuntu-cn
12:21 mako          nice webpage :)
12:21 freeflying_   mako: thx
12:22 Kamion        I'm fine with freeflying_ for membership based on testimonials
12:22 elmo          me too
12:22 mako          freeflying_: i'm happy to have you on board
12:22 mako          alright
12:23 mako          freeflying_: welcome!
12:23 minghua       congratulations freeflying_
12:23 mako          last up to bat
12:23 freeflying_   mako: thx
12:23 minghua       my turn?
12:23 freeflying_   thx all
12:23 \sh           freeflying_: welcome on board :)
12:23 licio         welcome freeflying_ :-D
12:23 ogra          congrats freeflying_
                    Okay.  My name is Ming Hua.  wiki page:
12:23 minghua  launchpad profile:
12:23 freeflying_   \sh licio  ogra :thx
                    I am a Chinese coming from mainland China.  Currently I am a
12:24 minghua       Ph.D. student on materials science, in Rice University, Houston,
                    My main contribution so far has been: 1. testing and reporting
12:24 minghua       bugs; 2. helping MOTUs with transitions and merges; 3. taking
                    care of the SCIM related packages (I am the Debian maintainer of
                    some of them).
                    My future plan would be: 1. maintaining and improving SCIM
                    related packages, as input methods seem to be a popular request
12:24 minghua       from users and Ubuntu seems to be lacking people that work on
                    this; 2. help MOTU science team, especially on collaborating with
12:24 Kamion        minghua's been around for a long time - I remember your name from
                    a conversation about translations late in the hoary cycle I think
                    I would also like to mention that I am heavily involved in the
12:24 minghua       i18n/l10n work in Debian, which I think Ubuntu will also benefit
12:24 Kyral         I was surprised that he wasn't a Member
12:24 Kamion        or was it warty, one of those
12:24 minghua       Kamion: yes, that's probably my first Ubuntu bug :-)
12:25 minghua       mako: back to the input method issue you mentioned:  I would love
                    to see input method support integrated into lang-pack too
12:25 \sh           minghua is quite active in the MOTU area and also one of hell bug
12:25 minghua       but I am not really a programmer, so I definitely need help on
12:26 ogra          elmo just synced his scim package from debian :)
12:26 minghua       however as I've indicated on my wiki page, input method support
                    is my first priority in both Debian and Ubunut
12:26 freeflying_   minghua has contributed much oto scim
12:26 mako          minghua: we're gonna do it
                    as with freeflying_ I'm happy to have more people who actually
12:26 Kamion        know about input methods, and particularly getting the Debian
                    scim maintainer on-board is clearly the right thing to do
12:26 mako          minghua: if we can get people from 4 other languages
                    represented.. we can do this
=== mako nods to Kamion
12:26 minghua       and I would definitely pursue automatical IM support in dapper+1
                    if we don't have enough time for dapper
12:26 mako          minghua: we'll do it
12:27 Kamion        and I approve of the detailed wiki page :)
12:27 Kyral         okay I'm off. I support minghua :P
12:27 Kamion        so minghua++ as far as I'm concerned
12:27 minghua       thanks Kyral :-)
12:27 mako          minghua: i don't think we have time to test it honestly for
                    dapper.. because the changes are pretty invasive
12:27 earobinson    bye Kyral
12:27 mako          minghua: we should *start* planning for dapper+1
12:27 LaserJock     minghua is helping me (and MOTU Science in general) with his
                    knowledge of Debian and desire for collaboration
12:27 elmo          ack from me too
12:27 mako          minghua: we should meet up sometime this week to strategize
12:27 minghua       mako: yes that's my concern too, especially dapper will be
                    supported for 3 years
12:27 mako          minghua: awesome :)
12:28 minghua       mako: and scim upstream now essetianlly don't support old release
                    branches :-(
12:28 earobinson    can I ask what " automatical IM support" is going to be?
12:28 minghua       mako: that would be wonderful (having some help from others)
12:29 Kamion        I believe I've approved everyone from this meeting in Launchpad;
                    let me know if I've missed anyone
12:29 mako          Kamion: you rock
12:29 mako          awesome
12:29 mako          so i think that's it
                    earobinson: my vision is that you choose CJK (chinese, japanese,
12:29 minghua       korean) as the language in install, input method (hopefully scim
                    :-) packages will be automatically installed, and when you boot
                    into you new gnome/kde desktop, you can use IM immediately
12:29 mako          i approve of minghua, if that wasn't clear
=== ogra applauds minghua
12:29 Kamion        yep, any other business before we close?
12:29 mako          minghua: YES
12:29 \sh           minghua: congrats :)
12:29 mako          minghua: BROTHER
12:29 minghua       that still requries a lot of work, though
12:30 Kamion        please say no, my wife would like to actually see me tonight :)
12:30 minghua       thanks, mako,
12:30 mako          minghua: this has been my #1 goal for ubuntu since almost day one
12:30 mako          ok ok ok
12:30 minghua       thanks d ogra
12:30 mako          i think that means the MEETING IS OVER
12:30 mako          Kamion: quickly run away :)
12:30 mako          thanks everyone who was here at weird times
12:30 minghua       thanks for the CC members too
12:30 ogra          Kamion, only 30min and its early morning already, hurry up :)
12:31 mako          lets do it like 10 hours earlier next time
12:31 minghua       for such a long meeting
12:31 nealmcb       fascinating - thanks folks!
12:31 mako          next meeting at UTC12
12:31 mako          two weeks from today
12:31 mako          ?
12:31 mako          sounds sane
12:31 Kamion        works for me
12:31 mako          cool

MeetingLogs/CC_2006-01-24 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:14:39 by localhost)