20080916
Revision 1 as of 2008-09-16 18:18:48
Clear message
Agenda
Items we will be discussing:
- Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.
- Drupal install script - tarvid
vsftpd 2.0.7? - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-September/002231.html (Adri2000 - not sure to be able to attend before 16:00 UTC)
- nagios3 in main.
- Open Discussion.
- Agree on next meeting date and time.
Minutes
Agree on next meeting date and time
Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September 23th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
Log
[16:02] <mathiaz> #startmeeting [16:02] <Koon> o/ [16:02] <soren> Let's. [16:03] <nealmcb> Meeting started at 10:02:29. The chair is mathiaz. [16:03] <mathiaz> After its last week quick appearance MootBot is back on vacation. [16:03] <mathiaz> Last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080909 [16:03] <ogra> mathiaz, ping Seeker` about it (he said we should do that) [16:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder [16:04] <mathiaz> soren: ^^ ? [16:04] <soren> Ooh, yes. Big stuff going on ehere. [16:05] <soren> Erm... I've clearly neglected to send out the blog post. [16:05] <soren> I'll get right on that later today. [16:05] <soren> I've got a local version that deploys to EC2, so things are coming along very nicely. [16:05] <mathiaz> soren: ok - you've uploaded a new version ? [16:05] <mathiaz> soren: and you'll cover most of it in your blog post ? [16:05] <soren> Most of the stuff I've done pertains to EC2, but there are a few licensing tidbits that needs sorting out before I can push it to the archive. [16:06] <nealmcb> ooh - ec2 - cool! [16:06] <soren> mathiaz: Indeed I will. It's mostly written up, I just need to update it with the last couple of weeks' progress and post it. [16:06] <mathiaz> soren: great. [16:06] <ScottK-laptop> Hello all. I'm finally not on the road at meeting time. [16:06] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive [16:06] * mathiaz waves at ScottK-laptop [16:07] <mathiaz> sommer: still on the track to update the Server guide wrt to virtualization ? [16:07] <sommer> mathiaz: yep, I've updated the u-v-m section with what is currently in the man page... I'll update it again once the new version hits the archive [16:08] <mathiaz> sommer: great ! [16:08] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide once vm-builder is available in the archive. [16:08] <mathiaz> soren: anything else on the topic of vm-builder ? [16:09] <soren> I'm thinking no. [16:09] <tarvid> I would like a link on requirements for a host for a VM [16:09] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid [16:09] <mathiaz> sommer: ^^ ? [16:10] <sommer> tarvid: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/virtualization.html [16:10] <tarvid> tnx [16:10] <mathiaz> sommer: I still owe a review of the openldap section. [16:10] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide [16:10] <sommer> :) [16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: raid section ? [16:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: i published the blogpost calling for testing a few minutes ago [16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: if sommer has some time today, i'll review the server guide in conjunction with him [16:11] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide [16:11] <sommer> kirkland: sure, can you ping me this afternoon? [16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the server guide ? [16:11] <kirkland> sommer: yeah, will do [16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: I guess you're still looking for reviewers for the different sections? [16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: I had a quick question about the tomcat-server tasksel... is that going to be listed in the installer? [16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, reviewers are always welcome :) [16:12] <Koon> sommer: yes [16:12] <sommer> Koon: cool, just wanted to make sure [16:13] <Koon> sommer: you want a section in the guide for that ? [16:13] <zul> sommer: already is [16:13] <sommer> I added it to the list this weekend... in the installation section [16:13] <tarvid> i presume one of the motivations for virtualization is to limit the competition between a LAMP stack and a Tomcat sack? [16:14] <soren> Err... Not really, no :) [16:14] <Koon> tarvid: the only motivation is that it's fun. [16:15] <mathiaz> sommer: Isn't it too late to add new material to the server guide ? [16:15] <nealmcb> along with lots of other motivations..... [16:15] <mathiaz> sommer: by material I meant brand new sections [16:15] <tarvid> Oooh [16:15] <sommer> mathiaz: ummm, I don't think it'd be a big deal... there's been some pretty large updates the last couple of days [16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: right. [16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: are you planning to write a section about tomcat ? [16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: or would require some help on that ? [16:16] <ScottK-laptop> Is the server guide affected by string freeze? [16:16] <sommer> mathiaz: I wasn't planning to for Intrepid, but I'm not opposed to the idea [16:16] <sommer> mathiaz: help would be great [16:16] <sommer> ScottK-laptop: yes [16:17] <Koon> sommer: I can help [16:17] <ScottK-laptop> OK, so this'll all need freeze exceptions too. [16:17] <sommer> ScottK-laptop: why? [16:17] <mathiaz> sommer: hm - I'm not sure ScottK-laptop is refering to the same thing./ [16:17] <nealmcb> Hmmm - the top two hits on google for ubuntu server guide are still very confusing, with no link to 8.04. I'll have to revisit my bug about that [16:17] <sommer> Koon: that'd be great, and much appreciated [16:18] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: there is a documentation freeze at the begining of the month of october [16:18] <ScottK-laptop> OK. I guess that's the relevant one then. [16:18] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: but now that we're in UI-Freeze, the doc team can review the documentation to make sure it's accurate [16:18] <tarvid> sommer - nag tarvid about Netbeans and Tomcat [16:18] <Koon> sommer: you prefer me to draft something or that we discuss together on what should be in there and you draft it ? [16:19] <sommer> Koon: if you don't mind drafting it that'd be great... I've used Tomcat for some legacy stuff, but I'm not that familiar with it [16:19] <Koon> sommer: will do [16:20] <mathiaz> Koon: I'd suggest that you branch the ubuntu-doc bzr repo - and submit it to sommer for merge [16:20] <sommer> tarvid: if you'd like to add some content that'd be great too [16:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to draft a section about tomcat for the Server Guide. [16:20] <tarvid> I'd like to get a ball of Netbeans, PHP, Drupal and Tomcat running [16:21] <Seeker`> sorry about the lack of bot; I dont have access to the server it runs on myself, and I cant always get hold of the person that does [16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else ? [16:21] <nealmcb> tarvid: a ball? [16:21] <tarvid> Which is one of the reasons I had the frail hope virtualization would constrain Tomcat from eating my PHP stuff [16:21] <mathiaz> Seeker`: no problem. [16:21] <sommer> mathiaz: I don't think so [16:21] <tarvid> glob, pile, stack, heap [16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: ok - thanks for the work. [16:21] <mathiaz> let's move o [16:22] <mathiaz> n [16:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID [16:22] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^? [16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: \o/ [16:22] <nealmcb> tarvid: hmm - what problems are you having? [16:22] <nealmcb> tarvid: (maybe later in the meeting) [16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: we now have a question in the Ubuntu Server installer, if you have installed / or /boot on an md device, that will ask if you want BOOT_DEGRADED=true|false [16:22] <mathiaz> nealmcb: tarvid: could take this to #ubuntu-server ? [16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: no small feat, I might add :-) kirkland pats himself on the back :-P [16:23] <nealmcb> mathiaz: right - even better.... [16:23] <tarvid> it is a current but not top priority project [16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: awesome - so nothing is left for this spec in this release cycle ? [16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: except testing. [16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: actually, there was one regression introduced by adding dmraid to the default seed [16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i solved that one late last night, and colin committed the fix this morning [16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok. [16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think the active development on this one is officially done :-) [16:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: have you closed the bug in LP ? [16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: there's a slew of them [16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: they have been appropriately referenced in various patches so as to auto-close [16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: the ones i've fixed anyway [16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: i should probably actually do a search for open duplicates [16:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok. There is a long bug thread also [16:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: or related bugs that might have been fixed by these efforts [16:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: the MOST relevant ones are listed at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootDegradedRaid [16:25] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok. [16:25] <mathiaz> kirkland: anything else to add on that topic ? [16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: nopers [16:26] <mathiaz> kirkland: great - time to test now. [16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: true, as i said, blog post published [16:26] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support [16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/intrepid-call-for-testing-booting-degraded-raid/ [16:26] <mathiaz> Koon: ^ [16:27] <mathiaz> Koon: I've uploaded your tomcat5.5 changes [16:27] <Koon> mathiaz: the tasksel is in, thanks to zul. Tested and works ok [16:27] <Koon> so on the tomcat6 front development is complete [16:27] <Koon> on tomcat5.5 you uploaded the intrepid fixes [16:27] <mathiaz> Koon: how are the dependencies going ? [16:27] <Koon> there is a security update for hardy in the pipe, a SRU is next to fix other things [16:28] <Koon> about deps, we are in a not too bad shape [16:28] <Koon> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/tomcat-server [16:28] <jdstrand> fyi-- security fixes are uploaded and available (for hardy) [16:29] <mathiaz> Koon: seems great. [16:29] <Koon> the *gcj* + libasound2 packages are pulled in through recommends and are not needed [16:29] <mathiaz> Koon: right - have you filed bugs about it ? [16:29] <Koon> but that's almost as slim as it can get [16:30] <Koon> mathiaz: yes, proposal was rejected for intrepid. Should be shot down in intrepid+1 [16:30] <mathiaz> Koon: good. Anything else on the tomcat front ? [16:30] <Koon> nope [16:30] <mathiaz> let's move on. [16:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] landscape-client in Ubuntu [16:30] <mathiaz> I've been working on fixing landscape-client. [16:31] <mathiaz> I'm going to upload a new package that will use a Pre-Depends to make it work correctly. [16:31] <ScottK> Why is it even in Ubuntu, isn't it just a client for a proprietary Canonical product? [16:32] <jdstrand> ScottK: it's open-source and could be modified for anyone to use [16:32] <ScottK> Right. I said that wrong, in Ubuntu/in a standard install. [16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK: landscape-client isn't install by default [16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK: there is a choice in the install. [16:33] <ScottK> OK. [16:33] <kirkland> ScottK: it does contain some useful, open, aspects, including landscape-sysinfo [16:34] <dendrobates> but that functionality has been split out so it does not require the full client. [16:35] <mathiaz> dendrobates: so the pkg split is still under discussion. I'm hoping to get it working in alpha6. [16:36] <dendrobates> mathiaz: upload it as you have it. We can make any changes as needed. [16:36] <mathiaz> That requires a PreDepends change and promotion of update-motd to main. [16:36] <nealmcb> is the protocol used by landscape-client documented? [16:36] <mathiaz> the last part is taken care of by kirkland [16:36] <kirkland> mathiaz: waiting on pitti or doko [16:36] <radix> nealmcb: it's not documented. [16:37] <dendrobates> nealmcb: I don't know how much documentation, but the client is gpl, so it could be discovered. [16:37] <radix> nealmcb: we'd like to have it documented, of course [16:38] <mathiaz> ok - that's all I have on the landscape front. [16:39] <mathiaz> That's all from last week minutes. [16:39] <nealmcb> radix: thanks. in the past there have been some discussions about how it might fit together with other server management tools. having a protocol that is documented and some means of discussing changes to the protocol would help [16:39] <mathiaz> Anything else to add wrt to last week meeting ? [16:39] <soren> mathiaz: Have you in the process uncovered an Ubuntu policy for pre-depends? [16:40] <mathiaz> soren: same as Debian - frowned upon [16:40] <soren> mathiaz: ...and needs raising on ubuntu-devel first? [16:40] <mathiaz> soren: but in this case it seems that it's the best option in the available time frame [16:40] <mathiaz> soren: cjwatson mentionned that I should open a bug about it to explain why it has been done. [16:41] <mathiaz> soren: with the aim to fix it in the mid-trem. [16:41] <soren> mathiaz: Sounds reasonable. [16:41] <soren> right. [16:41] <mathiaz> soren: once the underlaying issue is fixed, we can remove the Pre-Depends. [16:41] <soren> Right, right. [16:42] <mathiaz> Let's move on. [16:42] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Drupal install script [16:42] <mathiaz> tarvid: ^^ ? [16:42] <tarvid> here [16:43] <tarvid> I kept track of the work flow I do repetitively installing Drupal for clients [16:43] <Adri2000> (I'm sorry guys, I have to run, I should be back in ~15 minutes for the vsftpd item) [16:43] <tarvid> it involves creating users, databases, dns zones and apache config files [16:44] <mathiaz> tarvid: is this workflow documented somewhere ? [16:44] <cjwatson> I just applied http://paste.ubuntu.com/47486/ to policy so that it recommends discussion on ubuntu-devel rather than debian-devel. [16:44] <tarvid> perhaps by the script itself http://drupal.ls.net/node/47 [16:45] <tarvid> I have older svg files built with "dot" [16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: what's the current state of the drupal package ? [16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: we should try to aim at integrating your common tasks in the postinstall scripts. [16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: or may be create a package that would do this for you. [16:46] <tarvid> 6.4 and still struggling to update the contributed modules from 5.x [16:47] <tarvid> there were 6 minor and one major upgrade in the past 12 months [16:47] <tarvid> staying secure is a challenge [16:47] <tarvid> the same is true for all large PHP apps [16:47] <mathiaz> tarvid: it seems that you have a good use case for the web framework specification. [16:47] <tarvid> installing them in /var/www does not improve the security situation [16:48] <tarvid> if I knew what that was [16:48] <tarvid> I am a long time Linux Ubuntu server user [16:48] <tarvid> but my bash skills are modest [16:49] <tarvid> I can spot many issues in a shell script [16:49] <tarvid> some are easy like checking the number of parameters [16:49] <tarvid> I'd like to reuse existing scripts but I can find much to build on [16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improved-web-application-framework [16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebAppsPackaging [16:49] <tarvid> that sounds appropriate [16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: you may wanna have a look at these page and provide input there. [16:50] <mathiaz> tarvid: anything else ? [16:50] <tarvid> simple issues like creating a new DNS zone are hard to find [16:51] <tarvid> This may be of more interest in the Drupal world than Ubuntu [16:51] <mathiaz> tarvid: that should be documented in the Ubuntu Server Guide then. [16:52] <mathiaz> tarvid: if you could add your input to the spec mentionned above it would be appreciated. [16:52] <mathiaz> Let's move on. [16:52] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main. [16:52] <mathiaz> Koon: have you been working on that ? [16:53] <Koon> mathiaz: no. apparently it wouldn't need a MIR so I'm trying to get ahold of someone that could fix it [16:53] <mathiaz> Koon: IIRC there is also the fact that nagios is not in main for hardy. [16:53] <mathiaz> soren: ^^ ? [16:54] <soren> That seems to still be the case, yes. [16:54] <soren> ...which is a mistake, by the way. [16:54] <soren> ..and might actually get fixed (magically). [16:54] <Koon> hmmm. [16:54] <soren> It *has* been approved. [16:54] <mathiaz> right [16:55] <soren> And nagios3 isn't a rewrite (AFAIK), so getting it promoted should be a formality. [16:55] <Koon> no it's pretty much the same thing, it's just that some plugins API is broken [16:55] <soren> Oh, really? [16:55] <zul> Koon: like which? [16:56] <Koon> it exposes more macros and changed a few of them iirc [16:56] <Koon> that was the rationale for the major revision number [16:56] * Koon looks it up [16:56] <Koon> anyway, it's a very specific case so I'd like to solve it directly with someone with superpowers [16:57] <mathiaz> Koon: right - ask an archive admin and refer to the bug [16:57] <soren> http://nagios.sourceforge.net/docs/3_0/whatsnew.html [16:57] <mathiaz> Koon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios2/+bug/211323 [16:57] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 211323 in nagios2 "MIR for nagios" [Medium,Fix released] [16:58] <zul> those bugs reports should be moved to nagios3 once its done [16:58] <soren> Koon: Grab pitti. I've talked to him about it previously. [16:58] * Adri2000 is back [16:58] <Koon> soren: that's the one I've tried and failed to reach so far [16:58] <mathiaz> Koon: will take care of this ? [16:58] <mathiaz> Koon: will *you* take care of this ? [16:58] <Koon> that's on my todo list yes [16:59] <soren> Koon: Ah. I've explained the issue to slangasek as well. [16:59] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to ask an archive admin to promote nagios3 to main. [16:59] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] vsftpd 2.0.7 [16:59] <mathiaz> Adri2000: ^ ? [16:59] <Adri2000> yep [16:59] <Adri2000> basically, what I said in my email :) [17:00] <mathiaz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-September/002231.html [17:00] <Adri2000> vsftpd 2.0.7 has an interesting bug fix for FTPS, which makes it not work anymore with clients like filezilla [17:00] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vsftpd/+bug/254905 [17:00] <Adri2000> there is not a lot of changes, and they look pretty safe [17:00] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 254905 in vsftpd "FTPS doesn't work with clients such as FileZilla" [Medium,Confirmed] [17:01] <mathiaz> So you're asking whether that requires a FF exception ? [17:01] <Adri2000> it does I think, but I wanted the opinion of the server team before requesting one [17:02] <zul> it does imho [17:02] <mathiaz> It's a new upstream - so you'd need a FFe. [17:03] <soren> Not if it's bugfixes only.. [17:03] <mathiaz> soren: hm.. true [17:04] <soren> At least, that's my understanding. I can't seem to find a reference to back it up right now, though. [17:04] <Adri2000> there are two "Add option" and one "enhance" in the changelog, suggesting there are not only bugfixes but also a few enhancements [17:04] <soren> Oh, that might just be for universe. [17:04] <mathiaz> Adri2000: if you're not sure, ask for a FFe. [17:04] <mathiaz> Adri2000: I think you've already talked about with slangasek [17:04] <Adri2000> yes [17:04] <ScottK-laptop> soren: Bugfix only is Main and Universe, I'm pretty sure. [17:05] <Adri2000> but, am I wrong thinking vsftpd is in main and the recommended ftp server? and on the cd maybe also? [17:05] <Adri2000> that's why I'm asking you :) [17:05] <mathiaz> Adri2000: you're correct. [17:05] <soren> Adri2000: No, that's correct. [17:06] <Adri2000> ok [17:06] <mathiaz> Adri2000: so go ahead - ask for a FFe. And then you can work on providing an updated package. [17:06] <mathiaz> Adri2000: and seek for sponsoring via ubuntu-main-sponsor. [17:06] <Adri2000> okay, will do [17:07] <mathiaz> Adri2000: great. [17:07] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion [17:07] <mathiaz> anything else ? [17:07] <ScottK-laptop> Since I was last at one of these meetings, clamav and spamassassin have been promoted and are seeded in server-ship/ [17:08] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: awesome! [17:08] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you plan to have a mail-server task ? [17:09] <ScottK-laptop> clamav is up to date with 0.94 and once I have some feedback on testing I'll upload it with the apparmor profile that jdstrand did. [17:09] * nealmcb cheers for ScottK [17:09] <nealmcb> (and all the helpers) [17:09] <ScottK-laptop> Also Debian has created a pkg-clamav team which I'm a part of and I'll maintain our packaging branches jointly with them in their Git repo. [17:10] <ScottK-laptop> On amavisd-new, I got some input from ivoks and I'm going to do some slight refactoring/improvement of default preferences after this alpha is out. [17:11] <nxvl> it's awesome see so many new people on the meetings :D [17:11] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you think about adding clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task ? [17:11] <ScottK-laptop> The Debian defaults are not entirely friendly IMO (defaults to mailing virus detection reports back to the send, for example). [17:11] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I considered it, but wasn't sure. [17:11] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I thought it needed some discussion first. [17:12] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Spamassassin too. [17:12] <ScottK-laptop> Any objections to that? [17:12] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: yop. ubuntu-server@ seems like a good place to start. [17:12] <ScottK-laptop> OK. I added them to server-ship to get them seeded so they'd stay in Main. [17:14] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I'll start a discussion and see if we get consensus and make the change after the alpha if one is wanted. [17:14] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: seems like a good plan to me. [17:14] <mathiaz> anything else ? [17:14] <ScottK-laptop> Not from me. [17:15] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK-laptop to start a discussion on ubuntu-server@ about adding spamassassin, clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task. [17:15] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time. [17:15] <mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ? [17:15] <sommer> +1 [17:16] <ScottK-laptop> I'll be on vacation next week, so it'll probably be the week after I make any changes. [17:17] <mathiaz> Allright then. See you all next week here. Happy Alpha6 testing ! [17:17] <mathiaz> #endmeeting