Diff for "QATeam/Meetings/QA/20120229"

20120229

Differences between revisions 4 and 5

#title #ubuntu-meeting: Ubuntu QA

Meeting started by balloons at 17:03:25 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-17.03.log.html .

Meeting summary

Ubuntu Updates

LINK: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12727/testcases (brendand, 17:12:23) LINK: http://launchpad.net/bugs/942573 (brendand, 17:12:34)

Ubuntu Flavor Updates

LINK: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472 (phillw, 17:17:37) LINK: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk (jibel, 17:26:35)

Other topics

Meeting ended at 18:00:19 UTC.

Votes

Action items

(none)

People present (lines said)

balloons (91)
brendand (46)
jibel (19)
phillw (16)
ubottu (5)
Riddell (4)
meetingology (3)
josepht (1)

Full Log

17:03:25 <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
17:03:25 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 17:03:25 2012 UTC. The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:03:25 <meetingology>
17:03:25 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
17:03:39 <balloons> can we get a roll call of who's around
17:03:54 <phillw> o/
17:05:08 <phillw> could be a short meeting :/
17:05:22 <balloons> heh
17:05:24 <brendand> o/
17:05:32 <josepht> o/
17:06:00 <balloons> alrighty.. well let's dive into the agenda
17:06:12 <balloons> there was one outstanding item, for me to update the wiki 17:06:23 * balloons balloons to update QA Team wiki heading
17:06:31 <balloons> i wanted to add an activities icon
17:06:39 <balloons> I seem to only be successful at breaking the header page
17:07:50 <phillw> cproffit from ubuntu-begginers helped me when I got stuck with the new lubuntu header
17:08:21 <balloons> phillw, awesome, I'll consult him.. expect to see that today after the meeting
17:08:32 <balloons> i picked the <3 icon for activities
17:08:33 <balloons> hehe
17:08:51 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
17:09:12 <balloons> jibel, are you around?
17:09:24 <jibel> hey
17:09:41 <balloons> hello care to update us on ubuntu qa activities this week?
17:10:26 <jibel> sure, Precise Beta 1 testing in progress
17:10:46 <jibel> list of images that need testing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds
17:11:18 <jibel> a bunch of bugs has been found http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects/opened
17:11:34 <jibel> major bugs with the installer and the live session are:
17:11:43 <jibel> bug 940908
17:11:45 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908
17:11:52 <jibel> bug 939450
17:11:53 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 939450 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable in ubi-partman.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939450
17:11:59 <jibel> bug 942560
17:12:00 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560
17:12:11 <brendand> o/
17:12:19 <balloons> yes brendand ?
17:12:23 <jibel> and bug 942030
17:12:23 <brendand> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12727/testcases
17:12:24 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030
17:12:34 <brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/942573
17:12:35 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942573 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Network connections indicator not shown" [Undecided,Fix released]
17:12:45 <brendand> is in xubuntu, but marked against an ubuntu testcase??
17:13:53 <jibel> right, I saw that but didn't talk to primes2h yet
17:15:05 <jibel> on the image testing side, a tester reported a hang on the keyboard layout screen on the second stage of an OEM install
17:15:49 <jibel> I've been unable to reproduce, it be nice if we could have more testers to validate that if it is a local issue or not
17:16:31 <balloons> jibel, can we draft some of this up into a mail for the qa list? I'll also send a tweet on status
17:16:32 <jibel> apart from that, beta 1 should be released tomorrow, that's plenty of hours for more coverage
17:16:42 <jibel> balloons, ok
17:16:50 <balloons> thanks jibel!
17:16:53 <jibel> ..
17:17:15 <balloons> Alright, let's talk about flavors now
17:17:24 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
17:17:31 <balloons> lubuntu first, how's that
17:17:37 <phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472
17:18:05 <phillw> We're all over it like a rash, this was caused by Â it's a change on GTK3 3.2.1 syntax and theme standards (I'm angry because of so many changes, they won't make any standard if it goes that way) and Unico 1.0.1 (some textures changes, too).
17:18:19 <phillw> Which pulled the rug from under lubuntu for a week.
17:19:05 <phillw> a rough patch is hoped for today, and then all the isos will need respinning.
17:19:15 <balloons> yikes
17:19:54 <phillw> IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens.
17:21:13 <balloons> alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue
17:21:27 <balloons> thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue
17:21:30 <phillw> so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future?
17:21:30 <balloons> glad you isolated it
17:21:56 <phillw> our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it
17:22:05 <balloons> that's no good at all
17:22:53 <balloons> I feel like the future for stopping this is doing more testing of key components before they entire the archive
17:22:59 <phillw> the only other thing to note is the ppc *may* not be working on G3 macs, but until we can actually install it's hard for our few testers to test
17:23:20 <balloons> I'll sidebar for a moment to mention this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages
17:23:27 <brendand> o/
17:23:34 <balloons> sure, go ahead brendand
17:23:45 <brendand> is lubuntu being iso tested?
17:23:49 <brendand> in jenkins?
17:24:29 <balloons> I'm not sure phillw ? jibel?
17:25:06 <phillw> balloons: I know very little about jenkins
17:26:34 <jibel> balloons, we test ubuntu, but the code we use for testing is available if you want to run it on your own infrastructure
17:26:35 <jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
17:27:07 <balloons> brendand, do you feel like having jenkins on this would have helped in this case?
17:27:14 <balloons> is that the answer going forward?
17:27:53 <brendand> balloons, well it looks like an integration issue to me
17:28:15 <brendand> balloons, as in Gtk didn't break itself , it broke something else
17:28:45 <balloons> k, let;s move this discussion to the mailing list.. phillw it looks like there may be a way to improve QA for future
17:28:57 <phillw> thanks.
17:29:04 <balloons> i'm sure brendand and jibel will speak more about it there
17:29:05 <jibel> balloons, in this case, for ubuntu, we don't have tests that cover the rendering of the UI and similar defects are found with manual testing
17:29:30 <balloons> jibel, thanks for the info. it certainly depends on what your coverage is
17:29:44 <balloons> ok, how about kubuntu?
17:29:46 <jibel> but the plan is to be able to do this type of test with the next testing framework we are working on
17:29:53 <brendand> phillw - i have an idea to share. on the mailing list - if you can send a message to get things rolling
17:30:20 <Riddell> brendand: looking good for beta I think
17:30:34 <Riddell> we have kubuntu-active images yet but nobody has tested and almost certainly they don't do anything
17:32:07 <balloons> yes.. any thoughts on getting hardware to try those out? will they be a published image for 12.04, or just ?
17:35:34 <balloons> Riddell, thoughts on what will be happening with the kubuntu-active images?
17:36:07 <Riddell> balloons: it'll be a "tech preview" at best
17:36:16 <balloons> ok, makes sens
17:36:19 <Riddell> if we get it going that's nice, if not then we won't worry too much
17:36:31 <balloons> awesome.. anything else?
17:37:12 <balloons> alrighty, let's move on to ubuntu studio.. anyone about care to update us?
17:38:53 <balloons> no one about..
17:39:01 <balloons> how about edubuntu?
17:40:03 <balloons> lastly, any updates from xubuntu?
17:41:39 <balloons> heh.. kk.. Let's move on
17:41:45 <balloons> we've got alot to chat about
17:42:00 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
17:42:07 <brendand> o/
17:42:12 <balloons> yes brendand ?
17:42:15 <brendand> ok
17:42:17 <brendand> manual testing
17:42:27 <brendand> balloons, love what you're doing with checkbox
17:42:45 <brendand> however
17:43:00 <brendand> the whole story around creating test cases is really messy
17:43:12 <brendand> we have a wiki, but it's not complete
17:43:21 <brendand> we have a spreadsheet, i'm not sure if that's complete
17:43:28 <brendand> we're looking at case conductor
17:43:41 <brendand> and now you can also submit jobs to checkbox
17:44:00 <brendand> (the checkbox-app-testing branch to be precise)
17:44:25 <balloons> brendand, yep your correct on all those things
17:44:33 <brendand> can the wiki die anytime soon?
17:44:38 <balloons> the wiki is not the long-term solution
17:44:55 <balloons> that was discussed last year afaik, and the decision to leave it was made then
17:45:17 <balloons> if not I would propose we go ahead and formally say so now
17:45:33 <brendand> balloons, yes but then as far as i can tell you're using the test cases as written on the wiki for the checkbox tests...
17:45:52 <brendand> am i wrong?
17:46:02 <balloons> I pulled the test cases we re-wrote as part of the spreadsheet rewrite project
17:46:05 <balloons> that is correct
17:46:19 <brendand> so they are *all* in the spreadsheet?
17:46:26 <balloons> all the checkbox testcases?
17:46:28 <balloons> not all all
17:46:33 <balloons> *not at all
17:46:34 <brendand> ok
17:47:05 <balloons> if you look the wiki has only maybe the nautilus and network manager tests copied unedited
17:47:23 <balloons> i took ideas from some of the others, but by and large, the wiki is pretty old and dead
17:47:29 <brendand> can we make the wiki read-only?
17:47:40 <brendand> (maybe it is already and i'm being a dum-dum)
17:47:56 <balloons> no, it's still editable.. I'm not sure the wiki can or can't be readonly
17:48:02 <balloons> if it can I would be ok with it
17:48:18 <phillw> it can be tagged as depreciated to encourage people NOT to update it.
17:48:33 <balloons> I would say we are at that point
17:48:47 <balloons> as far as the future, we are still looking for a test case management system
17:49:08 <balloons> in my post I outlined my thoughts about that.. i'll repeat them here, and see what you all think/feel
17:49:20 <brendand> also, banners saying "THIS WIKI IS DEPRECATED - SEE <Google Docs Link>"
17:49:41 <phillw> brendand: we can do that
17:49:55 <balloons> basically we need a test case mgmt system, test case delivery system and a test case reporting system
17:50:20 <brendand> what happened with case conductor?
17:50:33 <balloons> right now, we have the wiki more or less as the mgmt system, nothing (we're trying out checkbox now) as the delivry system, and nothing (we're trying out lp and the results tracker) for the reporting system
17:51:01 <brendand> i'm biased, but checkbox is a good delivery system
17:51:14 <balloons> i have been focusing my efforts recently on getting this checkbox prototype up and running
17:51:22 <phillw> balloons: brendand we can chat on ML about a couple of systems the SII have tested out if it would help?
17:51:24 <brendand> launchpad-results may need an extra layer over it to be generally suitable
17:51:34 <balloons> and the case conductor folks have been working on pushing out the new release
17:51:39 <balloons> but we will prototype that as well
17:51:56 <balloons> phillw, yes that would be great
17:52:11 <brendand> balloons, if we wanted to start using case conductor tomorrow, what would the risks be?
17:52:12 <balloons> at this point I feel like we need a nicely intergrated workflow.. but all 3 needs must be met
17:52:24 <balloons> and I'm not biased as to what tools we use
17:52:41 <balloons> brendand, yes I agree results tracker if adopted would need more added to it
17:53:19 <balloons> brendand, if we started using cc tomorrow, no real risks other than we have to adopt it.. and at the moment we have no way of delivering those tests outside of using the web browser
17:53:27 <balloons> we may or may not like that delivery system
17:53:43 <brendand> but it's still miles ahead of a spreadsheet
17:53:59 <balloons> yes.. it is
17:54:05 <brendand> balloons, have you found out does it have an api for pulling testcases?
17:54:12 <balloons> everything in the spreadsheet is in checkbox tests now though
17:54:22 <balloons> brendand, I'm not sure on the api for pulling tests
17:54:45 <brendand> balloons, you've had meeting with the mozilla guys, right?
17:54:55 <balloons> i wasn't attempting to muddy the waters, but I know having checkbox tests does deprecate the other places we've been putting them
17:55:17 <balloons> brendand, yes I've met with the mozilla guys
17:55:44 <balloons> I intend to revisit case conductor within the next couple weeks
17:55:50 <balloons> probably next week
17:56:02 <brendand> so
17:56:13 <brendand> let's clarify all this
17:56:15 <balloons> they were supposed to have a release around early march
17:56:19 <brendand> i'm a contributor
17:56:37 <brendand> and i'm reading your page, so i go and right a testcase in checkbox and propose a merge
17:57:02 <brendand> the first thing you're going to tell me is 'can you write it up in this spreadsheet too'
17:57:04 <brendand> ?
17:57:18 <brendand> s/right/write/
17:57:34 <balloons> brendand, at this point I make no mention of updating a spreadsheet or wiki (nor have I attempted to myself)
17:57:46 <balloons> aka, the checkbox tests are standalone
17:58:37 <balloons> now, we could decide to deprecate all other tests and just go with the checkbox repo.. however I didn't want to do that, even tho short-term it means we have tests in 2 places (I was assuming the wiki would stay as-is for now as the repository of tests)
17:59:02 <balloons> the long term solution is something like case conductor, which I think we all agree with
17:59:09 <balloons> it's simply what do we do in the shortterm?
17:59:53 <brendand> i think there should be some attempt to keep the authoritative location for test cases and the execution tool in sync
17:59:59 <balloons> alright our time is expired.. I'll end the meeting.. can we continue this discussion in #ubuntu-testing?
18:00:08 <brendand> sure
18:00:14 <balloons> for those folks reading the logs we'll post to the ml a summary
18:00:16 <balloons> kk
18:00:19 <balloons> #endmeeting

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== Action items, by person ==

 * balloons
 ** balloons to edit the wiki to add activities as an icon link :-)
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- * balloons (57)
 * phillw (10)
 * Riddell (7)
 * meetingology (4)
 * ScottK (3)
 * albrigha (1)
+ * balloons (91)
 * brendand (46)
 * jibel (19)
 * phillw (16)
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 * Riddell (4)
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-:06:08 <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA

 17:06:08 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 22 17:06:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 17:06:08 <meetingology> 

 17:06:08 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

 17:06:29 <balloons> Can we get a roll call of who's about? :-)

 17:06:35 <phillw> o/

 17:06:42 <josepht> o/

 17:08:13 <balloons> alrighty... so let's get into the agenda

 17:08:43 <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions

 17:08:59 * balloons phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages

 17:09:07 <phillw> I've just edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam so Automated testing is on the front page, does it need to be highlighted further?

 17:09:34 <balloons> yes, I see that

 17:09:35 <balloons> nice

 17:09:49 <phillw> The actual page reads well as it is. I don't want to make it too long and involved that it is hard to follow.

 17:10:06 <balloons> I would add the only other change I would make (and perhaps I can learn how, or someone can help) is to add a big icon at the top for the activities link

 17:10:17 <balloons> thoughts on that

 17:10:18 <balloons> ?

 17:10:54 <phillw> That can be done.

 17:12:01 <balloons> ok, not wanting to add to your workload.. I'll walk down this sidepath a moment

 17:12:36 <balloons> mm

 17:12:41 <balloons> looks like I edit this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Header

 17:12:46 <balloons> that was the key I was missing I think

 17:13:03 <phillw> balloons: that's right, the 'fun' bit is choosing the icon :)

 17:13:21 <balloons> ok, I'll take that action as a learning item

 17:13:22 <balloons> hehe

 17:13:40 <balloons> [ACTION] balloons to edit the wiki to add activities as an icon link :-)

 17:13:40 * meetingology balloons to edit the wiki to add activities as an icon link :-)

 17:13:54 <balloons> ok, that's it for previous items

 17:14:05 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates

 17:14:20 <balloons> jibel, gema you about?

 17:16:30 <balloons> guess not :-)

 17:16:55 <balloons> Well, as everyone knows beta1 is coming up soon, and we're going to have some rounds of testing again as part of that

 17:17:39 <balloons> We are trying to get more people involved in the iso testing, and in addition, make it easier for people who want to help, to be able to do so

 17:18:01 <balloons> currently the process is a bit confusing at times to follow, in order to coordinate the iso testing -- especially when there is/are respins

 17:19:00 <balloons> I'd love to hear suggestions about how to make it easier and get more folks involved

 17:19:16 <albrigha> balloons, i'm here as well

 17:20:02 <balloons> If your not following @UbuntuTesting on twitter, you can do so. the team is going to try sending status updates thru twitter to help communicate for people who aren't idling all day in #ubuntu-testing

 17:20:15 <balloons> this way if a respin is needed, etc, it can be communicated more easily

 17:20:26 <balloons> in addition I'd like to hit up the mailing list a bit more with this information

 17:20:32 <balloons> hello albrigha ;-)

 17:21:36 <phillw> I think an email to the list when a respin is done may also be useful. I don't tweet, but I do read my mail :)

 17:22:13 <balloons> phillw, I'm not a tweeter etheir, but the more communication the better at this point.. I think it's not communicated well atm

 17:22:39 <balloons> So any other thoughts on getting people involved? what would be helpful to you folks that are doing testing today?

 17:23:23 <balloons> I found the process over the course of the last 2 iso testing cycles not too bad. the confusion came from understanding how to coordinate more-so than how to run the tests and get the isos.. the wiki explains that part fairly well

 17:24:48 <balloons> regardless, send to the list any thoughts you may have on that (or anything else you might think about)

 17:24:53 <balloons> ok, so moving on then

 17:25:00 <balloons> if there are no more comments :-0

 17:25:26 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates

 17:25:42 <balloons> phillw, want to talk a bit about lubuntu first?

 17:26:41 <phillw> lubuntu testing is going okay. A bug has been found and raised regarding the pae headers appearing in a non-pae installation, ppc testing seems also to be progressing well.

 17:27:03 <phillw> the pae / non-pae affects all flavours, it appears.

 17:27:35 <phillw> that's about all for lubuntu.

 17:28:27 <balloons> awesome.. and I saw you might have a couple more iso testers for this next round :-) hopefully they come thru

 17:29:16 <phillw> yeah, once we hit beta hopefully we will have more people.

 17:30:20 <balloons> ok, how about kubuntu.. anyone about?

 17:31:35 <balloons> xubuntu?

 17:31:50 <balloons> I'm afraid we're missing some folks, but I'll give them a chance if anyone is in here..

 17:32:32 <balloons> edubuntu?

 17:32:34 <balloons> ubuntu studio?

 17:32:37 <Riddell> kubuntu should have a new flavour appearing shortly

 17:32:51 <Riddell> kubuntu-active for tablets/touch UIs

 17:32:56 <balloons> hello riddell.. ohh neat

 17:33:03 <Riddell> minimal QA needs ("tech preview")

 17:33:10 <Riddell> but should be added to the ISO tracker

 17:33:29 <balloons> gotcha.. cool cool.. and what hardware will it install on?

 17:33:44 <Riddell> i386 (not going to bother with ARM until we know it works)

 17:34:03 <balloons> ok, sounds exciting.. so will it be out before beta1 then?

 17:34:12 <Riddell> and I don't want to even do install for QA, it's just a case of running the live system to check

 17:34:24 <Riddell> balloons: hope so, I've been making the changes to the CD build scripts today

 17:35:55 <balloons> that's exciting.. I saw the spark tablet sold out on pre-order

 17:36:10 <balloons> lots of interest, it's a cool project I'll be keeping my eye on certainly

 17:36:39 <balloons> alrighty, if no other flavors have updates, we'll move on to the final topic

 17:36:49 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics

 17:37:11 <balloons> Which is just really, the catch all. anything anyone wanted to add to the agenda.. nows' the time to speak up

 17:39:39 <ScottK> BTW, thanks for everyone who tested Kubuntu images

 17:39:54 <ScottK> Particularly 10.04.4

 17:40:05 <ScottK> We were able to get the release done, which was in doubt.

 17:41:04 <balloons> thanks ScottK.. if no one has anything else, then I'll close.. And as always, happy testing to everyone

 17:41:38 <gema> thanks balloons , sorry I was late and empty handed (i.e. nothing to say)

 17:41:42 <balloons> I should note I enjoyed getting my feet wet on testing the screenreader install.. I still botched it a bit, but it was fun learning

 17:41:54 <balloons> thanks to charlie-tca for helping me out on it

 17:42:05 <balloons> hello gema.. no worries

 17:42:09 <balloons> we were just ending, hehe

 17:42:13 <balloons> #endmeeting
+:03:25 <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA

 17:03:25 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 17:03:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 17:03:25 <meetingology> 

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 17:03:39 <balloons> can we get a roll call of who's around

 17:03:54 <phillw> o/

 17:05:08 <phillw> could be a short meeting :/

 17:05:22 <balloons> heh

 17:05:24 <brendand> o/

 17:05:32 <josepht> o/

 17:06:00 <balloons> alrighty.. well let's dive into the agenda

 17:06:12 <balloons> there was one outstanding item, for me to update the wiki

 17:06:23 * balloons balloons to update QA Team wiki heading

 17:06:31 <balloons> i wanted to add an activities icon

 17:06:39 <balloons> I seem to only be successful at breaking the header page

 17:07:50 <phillw> cproffit from ubuntu-begginers helped me when I got stuck with the new lubuntu header

 17:08:21 <balloons> phillw, awesome, I'll consult him.. expect to see that today after the meeting

 17:08:32 <balloons> i picked the <3 icon for activities

 17:08:33 <balloons> hehe

 17:08:51 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates

 17:09:12 <balloons> jibel, are you around?

 17:09:24 <jibel> hey

 17:09:41 <balloons> hello :-) care to update us on ubuntu qa activities this week?

 17:10:26 <jibel> sure, Precise Beta 1 testing in progress

 17:10:46 <jibel> list of images that need testing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds

 17:11:18 <jibel> a bunch of bugs has been found http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects/opened

 17:11:34 <jibel> major bugs with the installer and the live session are:

 17:11:43 <jibel> bug 940908

 17:11:45 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908

 17:11:52 <jibel> bug 939450

 17:11:53 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 939450 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable in ubi-partman.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939450

 17:11:59 <jibel> bug 942560

 17:12:00 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560

 17:12:11 <brendand> o/

 17:12:19 <balloons> yes brendand ?

 17:12:23 <jibel> and bug 942030

 17:12:23 <brendand> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12727/testcases

 17:12:24 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030

 17:12:34 <brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/942573

 17:12:35 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942573 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Network connections indicator not shown" [Undecided,Fix released]

 17:12:45 <brendand> is in xubuntu, but marked against an ubuntu testcase??

 17:13:53 <jibel> right, I saw that but didn't talk to primes2h yet

 17:15:05 <jibel> on the image testing side, a tester reported a hang on the keyboard layout screen on the second stage of an OEM install

 17:15:49 <jibel> I've been unable to reproduce, it be nice if we could have more testers to validate that if it is a local issue or not

 17:16:31 <balloons> jibel, can we draft some of this up into a mail for the qa list? I'll also send a tweet on status

 17:16:32 <jibel> apart from that, beta 1 should be released tomorrow, that's plenty of hours for more coverage

 17:16:42 <jibel> balloons, ok

 17:16:50 <balloons> thanks jibel!

 17:16:53 <jibel> ..

 17:17:15 <balloons> Alright, let's talk about flavors now

 17:17:24 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates

 17:17:31 <balloons> lubuntu first, how's that

 17:17:37 <phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472

 17:18:05 <phillw> We're all over it like a rash, this was caused by Â it's a change on GTK3 3.2.1 syntax and theme standards (I'm angry because of so many changes, they won't make any standard if it goes that way) and Unico 1.0.1 (some textures changes, too).

 17:18:19 <phillw> Which pulled the rug from under lubuntu for a week.

 17:19:05 <phillw> a rough patch is hoped for today, and then all the isos will need respinning.

 17:19:15 <balloons> yikes

 17:19:54 <phillw> IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens.

 17:21:13 <balloons> alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue

 17:21:27 <balloons> thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue

 17:21:30 <phillw> so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future?

 17:21:30 <balloons> glad you isolated it

 17:21:56 <phillw> our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it :(

 17:22:05 <balloons> :-( that's no good at all

 17:22:53 <balloons> I feel like the future for stopping this is doing more testing of key components before they entire the archive

 17:22:59 <phillw> the only other thing to note is the ppc *may* not be working on G3 macs, but until we can actually install it's hard for our few testers to test :(

 17:23:20 <balloons> I'll sidebar for a moment to mention this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages

 17:23:27 <brendand> o/

 17:23:34 <balloons> sure, go ahead brendand

 17:23:45 <brendand> is lubuntu being iso tested?

 17:23:49 <brendand> in jenkins?

 17:24:29 <balloons> I'm not sure phillw ? jibel?

 17:25:06 <phillw> balloons: I know very little about jenkins

 17:26:34 <jibel> balloons, we test ubuntu, but the code we use for testing is available if you want to run it on your own infrastructure

 17:26:35 <jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk

 17:27:07 <balloons> brendand, do you feel like having jenkins on this would have helped in this case?

 17:27:14 <balloons> is that the answer going forward?

 17:27:53 <brendand> balloons, well it looks like an integration issue to me

 17:28:15 <brendand> balloons, as in Gtk didn't break itself , it broke something else

 17:28:45 <balloons> k, let;s move this discussion to the mailing list.. phillw it looks like there may be a way to improve QA for future

 17:28:57 <phillw> thanks.

 17:29:04 <balloons> i'm sure brendand and jibel will speak more about it there

 17:29:05 <jibel> balloons, in this case, for ubuntu, we don't have tests that cover the rendering of the UI and similar defects are found with manual testing

 17:29:30 <balloons> jibel, thanks for the info. it certainly depends on what your coverage is

 17:29:44 <balloons> ok, how about kubuntu?

 17:29:46 <jibel> but the plan is to be able to do this type of test with the next testing framework we are working on

 17:29:53 <brendand> phillw - i have an idea to share. on the mailing list - if you can send a message to get things rolling

 17:30:20 <Riddell> brendand: looking good for beta I think

 17:30:34 <Riddell> we have kubuntu-active images yet but nobody has tested and almost certainly they don't do anything

 17:32:07 <balloons> yes.. any thoughts on getting hardware to try those out? will they be a published image for 12.04, or just ?

 17:35:34 <balloons> Riddell, thoughts on what will be happening with the kubuntu-active images?

 17:36:07 <Riddell> balloons: it'll be a "tech preview" at best

 17:36:16 <balloons> ok, makes sens

 17:36:19 <Riddell> if we get it going that's nice, if not then we won't worry too much

 17:36:31 <balloons> awesome.. anything else?

 17:37:12 <balloons> alrighty, let's move on to ubuntu studio.. anyone about care to update us?

 17:38:53 <balloons> no one about.. :-)

 17:39:01 <balloons> how about edubuntu?

 17:40:03 <balloons> lastly, any updates from xubuntu?

 17:41:39 <balloons> heh.. kk.. Let's move on

 17:41:45 <balloons> we've got alot to chat about

 17:42:00 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics

 17:42:07 <brendand> o/

 17:42:12 <balloons> yes brendand ?

 17:42:15 <brendand> ok

 17:42:17 <brendand> manual testing

 17:42:27 <brendand> balloons, love what you're doing with checkbox

 17:42:45 <brendand> however

 17:43:00 <brendand> the whole story around creating test cases is really messy

 17:43:12 <brendand> we have a wiki, but it's not complete

 17:43:21 <brendand> we have a spreadsheet, i'm not sure if that's complete

 17:43:28 <brendand> we're looking at case conductor

 17:43:41 <brendand> and now you can also submit jobs to checkbox

 17:44:00 <brendand> (the checkbox-app-testing branch to be precise)

 17:44:25 <balloons> brendand, yep your correct on all those things

 17:44:33 <brendand> can the wiki die anytime soon?

 17:44:38 <balloons> the wiki is not the long-term solution

 17:44:55 <balloons> that was discussed last year afaik, and the decision to leave it was made then

 17:45:17 <balloons> if not I would propose we go ahead and formally say so now ;-)

 17:45:33 <brendand> balloons, yes but then as far as i can tell you're using the test cases as written on the wiki for the checkbox tests...

 17:45:52 <brendand> am i wrong?

 17:46:02 <balloons> I pulled the test cases we re-wrote as part of the spreadsheet rewrite project

 17:46:05 <balloons> that is correct

 17:46:19 <brendand> so they are *all* in the spreadsheet?

 17:46:26 <balloons> all the checkbox testcases?

 17:46:28 <balloons> not all all

 17:46:33 <balloons> *not at all

 17:46:34 <brendand> ok

 17:47:05 <balloons> if you look the wiki has only maybe the nautilus and network manager tests copied unedited

 17:47:23 <balloons> i took ideas from some of the others, but by and large, the wiki is pretty old and dead

 17:47:29 <brendand> can we make the wiki read-only?

 17:47:40 <brendand> (maybe it is already and i'm being a dum-dum)

 17:47:56 <balloons> no, it's still editable.. I'm not sure the wiki can or can't be readonly

 17:48:02 <balloons> if it can I would be ok with it

 17:48:18 <phillw> it can be tagged as depreciated to encourage people NOT to update it.

 17:48:33 <balloons> I would say we are at that point

 17:48:47 <balloons> as far as the future, we are still looking for a test case management system

 17:49:08 <balloons> in my post I outlined my thoughts about that.. i'll repeat them here, and see what you all think/feel

 17:49:20 <brendand> also, banners saying "THIS WIKI IS DEPRECATED - SEE <Google Docs Link>"

 17:49:41 <phillw> brendand: we can do that :)

 17:49:55 <balloons> basically we need a test case mgmt system,  test case delivery system and a test case reporting system

 17:50:20 <brendand> what happened with case conductor?

 17:50:33 <balloons> right now, we have the wiki more or less as the mgmt system, nothing (we're trying out checkbox now) as the delivry system, and nothing (we're trying out lp and the results tracker) for the reporting system

 17:51:01 <brendand> i'm biased, but checkbox is a good delivery system

 17:51:14 <balloons> i have been focusing my efforts recently on getting this checkbox prototype up and running

 17:51:22 <phillw> balloons: brendand we can chat on ML about a couple of systems the SII have tested out if it would help?

 17:51:24 <brendand> launchpad-results may need an extra layer over it to be generally suitable

 17:51:34 <balloons> and the case conductor folks have been working on pushing out the new release

 17:51:39 <balloons> but we will prototype that as well

 17:51:56 <balloons> phillw, yes that would be great

 17:52:11 <brendand> balloons, if we wanted to start using case conductor tomorrow, what would the risks be?

 17:52:12 <balloons> at this point I feel like we need a nicely intergrated workflow.. but all 3 needs must be met

 17:52:24 <balloons> and I'm not biased as to what tools we use

 17:52:41 <balloons> brendand, yes I agree results tracker if adopted would need more added to it

 17:53:19 <balloons> brendand, if we started using cc tomorrow, no real risks other than we have to adopt it.. and at the moment we have no way of delivering those tests outside of using the web browser

 17:53:27 <balloons> we may or may not like that delivery system

 17:53:43 <brendand> but it's still miles ahead of a spreadsheet

 17:53:59 <balloons> yes.. it is

 17:54:05 <brendand> balloons, have you found out does it have an api for pulling testcases?

 17:54:12 <balloons> everything in the spreadsheet is in checkbox tests now though

 17:54:22 <balloons> brendand, I'm not sure on the api for pulling tests

 17:54:45 <brendand> balloons, you've had meeting with the mozilla guys, right?

 17:54:55 <balloons> i wasn't attempting to muddy the waters, but I know having checkbox tests does deprecate the other places we've been putting them

 17:55:17 <balloons> brendand, yes I've met with the mozilla guys

 17:55:44 <balloons> I intend to revisit case conductor within the next couple weeks

 17:55:50 <balloons> probably next week

 17:56:02 <brendand> so

 17:56:13 <brendand> let's clarify all this

 17:56:15 <balloons> they were supposed to have a release around early march

 17:56:19 <brendand> i'm a contributor

 17:56:37 <brendand> and i'm reading your page, so i go and right a testcase in checkbox and propose a merge

 17:57:02 <brendand> the first thing you're going to tell me is 'can you write it up in this spreadsheet too'

 17:57:04 <brendand> ?

 17:57:18 <brendand> s/right/write/

 17:57:34 <balloons> brendand, at this point I make no mention of updating a spreadsheet or wiki (nor have I attempted to myself)

 17:57:46 <balloons> aka, the checkbox tests are standalone

 17:58:37 <balloons> now, we could decide to deprecate all other tests and just go with the checkbox repo.. however I didn't want to do that, even tho short-term it means we have tests in 2 places (I was assuming the wiki would stay as-is for now as the repository of tests)

 17:59:02 <balloons> the long term solution is something like case conductor, which I think we all agree with

 17:59:09 <balloons> it's simply what do we do in the shortterm?

 17:59:53 <brendand> i think there should be some attempt to keep the authoritative location for test cases and the execution tool in sync

 17:59:59 <balloons> alright our time is expired.. I'll end the meeting.. can we continue this discussion in #ubuntu-testing?

 18:00:08 <brendand> sure

 18:00:14 <balloons> for those folks reading the logs we'll post to the ml a summary

 18:00:16 <balloons> kk

 18:00:19 <balloons> #endmeeting

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