1 Jul 24 15:06:33 <kermiac>       To anyone who doesn't know me, my name is Mitch Towner. I'm a member of the Ubuntu Bug Squad & Bug Control teams & I have been triaging for around 7 months. I also want to state that I defiantely do not know *everything* there is to know when it comes to bug triaging so this is just a short session to give everyone a basic starting point
   2 Jul 24 15:07:23 <kermiac>       Ok, the first topic is "What are Bugs?"
   3 Jul 24 15:08:01 <kermiac>       I will stop for questions ever now & then but please feel free to ask & I will answer
   4 Jul 24 15:08:19 <kermiac>       A software bug is an error or fault in a computer program which makes it fail to work as it's supposed to. This could be as simple as failing to work at all, or as complicated as a subtly incorrect result. Nevertheless, we really want to eliminate software bugs, as they make programs less useful. 
   5 Jul 24 15:10:07 <kermiac>       For an in-depth discussion about bugs, you can read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug. 
   6 Jul 24 15:10:16 <kermiac>       Bugs in Ubuntu are tracked on a Bug Tracking System (BTS) called Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/) 
   7 
   8 Jul 24 15:11:15 <kermiac>       What is Bug Triage & How do I get involved?
   9 Jul 24 15:11:24 <kermiac>       Bug Triage is an essential part of Ubuntu's development. Triaging can be broken down into the following tasks: 
  10 Jul 24 15:11:35 <kermiac>       Responding to new bugs as they are filed - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs 
  11 Jul 24 15:11:43 <kermiac>       Ensuring that new bugs have all the necessary information - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Improving
  12 Jul 24 15:11:51 <kermiac>       Assigning bugs to the correct package - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage 
  13 Jul 24 15:12:01 <kermiac>       Confirming bug reports by trying to reproduce them - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Confirming 
  14 Jul 24 15:12:32 <kermiac>       Setting the Importance and Status of bugs reports - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status 
  15 Jul 24 15:12:39 <kermiac>       Searching for and marking duplicates in the bug tracking system - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/MarkingDuplicate 
  16 Jul 24 15:12:53 <kermiac>       Forwarding bugs to their upstream authors, when applicable - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Forwarding%20upstream 
  17 Jul 24 15:13:02 <kermiac>       Marking bugs that are feature requests as such - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Feature%20Requests 
  18 Jul 24 15:13:12 <kermiac>       Converting bug reports to “Questions” that are actually support issues rather than a genuine bug - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/ConvertToQuestion 
  19 Jul 24 15:13:18 <kermiac>       Every step of this process is important & doing all or any of these processes is very helpful! 
  20 
  21 Jul 24 15:11:56 <gorilla>       kermiac: is it worth pointing out the difference between a bug and a wanted feature?.
  22 Jul 24 15:13:48 <kermiac>       ok, to discuss the point that gorilla made about the difference between a bug and a wanted feature
  23 Jul 24 15:14:31 <kermiac>       that is pretty well covered by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Feature%20Requests
  24 Jul 24 15:15:12 <kermiac>       but to summarise it, a feature request is basically someone asking "Can you implement XXX feature", whereas a bug is a problem with an existing feature
  25 
  26 Jul 24 15:17:09 <JoeMaverickSett>       QUESTION: i sometimes see a *.txt that contains sort of a script, are those kind of fixes for the bugs?
  27 Jul 24 15:18:36 <kermiac>       JoeMaverickSett: a lot of the time when you see a *.txt file (e.g. Stacktrace.txt) they are usually logfiles or backtraces that are needed for developers to see exactly what is happening
  28 Jul 24 15:19:17 <JoeMaverickSett>       kermiac, okie.
  29 
  30 Jul 24 15:17:47 <MoLE_> Question: Is there a hierarchy of bug reporters?  Ie devs at the top etc?
  31 Jul 24 15:20:32 <kermiac>       MoLE_: I wouldn't say that there is a "hierarchy" or anything. There are people with more experience (e.g. Bug Control members) & ewe obviously all pay attention to what the devs say. At the end of the day, triagers are there to help devs so that they can focus on writing the actual code. So if a dev says something, we (as triagers) pay attention
  32 
  33 Jul 24 15:23:14 <kermiac>       A question that I see asked by a lot of people interested in triaging is "How do I get involved?"
  34 Jul 24 15:23:58 <kermiac>       Every step of this process (triaging) is important & doing all or any of these processes is very helpful! 
  35 Jul 24 15:24:17 <kermiac>       a good place to start is http://is.gd/dE49D is a link to all of the bugs that have not been assigned to a package (currently 2294). Assigning these bugs to the correct package ensures that the correct people see these bugs & gets them one step closer towards being fixed. 
  36 Jul 24 15:24:37 <kermiac>       Confirming bug reports by reproducing them is also another relatively easy task that is very helpful. Please bear in mind that you should not confirm your own bug reports though – we need at least 2 different people with 2 different installations to consider a bug report being “confirmed”. 
  37 Jul 24 15:24:52 <kermiac>       All of these activities help the bug report to get fixed and subsequently are making Ubuntu even better. 
  38 
  39 Jul 24 15:25:27 <MoLE_> question: just on launchpad semantics: what is the difference between "edge" and "plain" launchpad?
  40 Jul 24 15:25:50 <MoLE_> and should I care?
  41 Jul 24 15:25:51 <gorilla>       Extra point: A bug could be due to a configuration error, confirming that someone else has the same "issue" help rule out config errors.
  42 Jul 24 15:26:47 <kermiac>       Edge is basically a sort of testing ground for new features on Launchpad. https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/75 explains it fairly well
  43 Jul 24 15:27:24 <kermiac>       gorilla: yes, that is one of the most important reasons why we should not confirm our own bugs
  44 
  45 Jul 24 15:31:22 <kermiac>       What is "Bug Status"?
  46 Jul 24 15:31:33 <kermiac>       There are currently 9 status classifications, they are: New, Incomplete, Invalid, Confirmed, Triaged, In Progress, Fix Committed, Fix Released and Won't Fix. 
  47 Jul 24 15:32:04 <kermiac>       A very brief explanation of what each status is used for and what it means is: 
  48 Jul 24 15:32:28 <kermiac>       “New” means that no-one has triaged or confirmed the report.  This is the default status for all bugs when they are first filed
  49 Jul 24 15:32:37 <kermiac>       “Incomplete” means that the bug is missing some information like the steps to reproduce or a requested log file. 
  50 Jul 24 15:32:45 <kermiac>       “Invalid” should be used when the bug report does not contain adequate information to determine whether or not it is a bug. 
  51 Jul 24 15:32:53 <kermiac>       “Confirmed” is pretty self explanatory. It means that someone other than the reporter has experienced the same bug. 
  52 Jul 24 15:33:00 <kermiac>       “Triaged” is set by a member of the Ubuntu Bug Control team when they think that the bug has enough information for a developer to start working on fixing the issue. 
  53 Jul 24 15:33:35 <kermiac>       “In Progress” means that a developer is actively working on fixing the bug.  Please note that this should only be used by someone who is actively working on a fix for the bug
  54 Jul 24 15:33:43 <kermiac>       “Fix Committed” means that a developer has committed a fix to a bzr branch or to another repository. 
  55 Jul 24 15:34:00 <kermiac>       Fix Released” means that the fix is released & available in an official Ubuntu repository. 
  56 Jul 24 15:34:18 <kermiac>       More information on Bug Status can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status 
  57 Jul 24 15:35:53 <kermiac>       One point to note is that there is often confusion surrounding the "Fix Released" status. If a bug report is set to "Fix Released" it may be fixed in the current development  release, not the current stable release
  58 
  59 Jul 24 15:36:11 <kermiac>       any questions before I move on?
  60 Jul 24 15:36:34 <JoeMaverickSett>       "so, if a fix is proposed, does it come with the next update or do we have to fix it ourselves?"
  61 Jul 24 15:37:58 <kermiac>       when a fix is proposed, it will usually be fixed in the development release (currently Maverick or Ubuntu 10.10)
  62 Jul 24 15:38:35 <MoLE_> To follow that question: who determines if the fix is backported to the stable release?
  63 Jul 24 15:39:01 <JoeMaverickSett>       so, does that mean i won't experience the bug fix on 10.04?
  64 Jul 24 15:39:46 <kermiac>       For the fix to be made available in "stable" releases, it must go through the "SRU" (Stable Release Updates) process. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for details on the SRU process
  65 Jul 24 15:40:12 <kermiac>       basically it needs to be a *very* precise, small change
  66 Jul 24 15:40:16 <nisshh>        ah, i always wondered about that too
  67 Jul 24 15:41:07 <kermiac>       if it qualifies for an SRU, the package will be uploaded to the -proposed repository (e.g. lucid -proposed) & it will be tested to ensure there are no regressions
  68 Jul 24 15:41:29 <kermiac>       http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html is a list of all current packages that are going through the SRU process
  69 Jul 24 15:41:38 <JoeMaverickSett>       oh! okie.
  70 Jul 24 15:42:10 <kermiac>       ok, any more questions before I move on?
  71 
  72 
  73 Jul 24 15:43:55 <kermiac>       also, one other thing that relates to Bug Status
  74 Jul 24 15:44:52 <kermiac>       there is a new Status - "Opinion". It is currently being trialled & is not in widespread use yet
  75 Jul 24 15:45:35 <kermiac>       This blog post gives a good overview of "Opinion" http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/new-bugs-status-opinion
  76 Jul 24 15:46:03 <kermiac>       any other questions?
  77 
  78 Jul 24 15:46:42 <nisshh>        kermiac: i guess we need to be running the dev release to confirm bugs and whatnot?
  79 Jul 24 15:47:41 <kermiac>       nisshh: not necessarily, but it is a good idea to have at least a VM or something similar of the current dev release to see if the bug has been fixed in the latest packages available
  80 Jul 24 15:48:28 <kermiac>       please note that I do not encourage people to run the latest dev release on a production system
  81 Jul 24 15:49:07 <gorilla>       kermiac: I agree with both of those points. :-)
  82 
  83 Jul 24 15:49:29 <kermiac>       What is "Bug Importance"?
  84 Jul 24 15:49:44 <kermiac>       The importance of the bug signifies the priority that it should be given by people fixing bugs. In order to set the Importance field in Launchpad, you need to be a member of Ubuntu Bug Control Team. 
  85 Jul 24 15:50:13 <kermiac>       I will discuss the difference between Bug Squad & Bug Control Teams shortly
  86 Jul 24 15:50:28 <kermiac>       There are currently 6 Importance classifications, they are: Undecided, Wishlist, Low, Medium, High and Critical. 
  87 Jul 24 15:50:42 <kermiac>       A very brief explanation of what each importance is used for and what it means is: 
  88 Jul 24 15:50:51 <kermiac>       "Undecided" is the default importance for new bug reports. It means that there is not enough information to determine its importance. 
  89 Jul 24 15:50:58 <kermiac>       "Wishlist" is a request to add a new feature to one of the programs in Ubuntu. 
  90 Jul 24 15:51:08 <kermiac>       "Low" refer to bugs which affect functionality, but to a lesser extent than most bugs (e.g easy workaround, uncommon hardware) 
  91 Jul 24 15:51:18 <kermiac>       "Medium" is almost like the default Importance that is set. Most bugs are of medium importance (e.g. not easy to workaround) 
  92 Jul 24 15:51:26 <kermiac>       "High" refers to bugs that make a default installation unusable for some users (e.g. system fails to boot or "X" fails to start or an essential piece of hardware fails to work 
  93 Jul 24 15:51:34 <kermiac>       "Critical" is reserved for bugs that have a severe impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users. 
  94 Jul 24 15:51:48 <kermiac>       More information on Bug Importance can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance 
  95 Jul 24 15:52:07 <kermiac>       any questions relating to Bug Importance?
  96 Jul 24 15:52:40 <head_victim>   Not here, doing well kermiac 
  97 Jul 24 15:52:49 <gorilla>       not from me.
  98 Jul 24 15:52:58 <MoLE_> keep going sir
  99 Jul 24 15:53:01 <kermiac>       ok, I'll move on
 100 
 101 Jul 24 15:53:15 <kermiac>       What is the Ubuntu BugSquad?
 102 Jul 24 15:53:28 <kermiac>       The BugSquad (https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad) is the first point of contact for the bugs filed about Ubuntu, we keep track of them and try to make sure that major bugs do not go unnoticed by the Developers 
 103 Jul 24 15:53:38 <kermiac>       Working with the BugSquad is a great way to start helping and to also learn a lot about Ubuntu and it's infrastructure. 
 104 Jul 24 15:53:49 <kermiac>       If you find that you like helping to triage bugs, I highly recommend joining the BugSquad. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad for details on how to join. 
 105 Jul 24 15:54:00 <kermiac>       You don't need any programming knowledge to help with triaging bugs, there are really only a 3 requirements to join the BugSquad: 
 106 Jul 24 15:54:07 <kermiac>       1.Sign the Code of Conduct 
 107 Jul 24 15:54:13 <kermiac>       2.Read the Triage Guide - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/ 
 108 Jul 24 15:54:20 <kermiac>       3.Subscribe to the BugSquad Mailing List - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad 
 109 Jul 24 15:54:52 <kermiac>       A relatively new project that has started is the BugSquad Mentoring Program
 110 Jul 24 15:54:54 <kermiac>       We encourage everyone who wants to join the Ubuntu BugSquad team to also join our BugSquad Mentoring Program. You can find more details on how this Mentoring Program works at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors 
 111 Jul 24 15:55:26 <kermiac>       What is the Ubuntu Bug Control Team?
 112 Jul 24 15:55:38 <kermiac>       The Ubuntu Bug Control team (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol) is a subset of the BugSquad who can change the Importance of Ubuntu bug tasks and set the status of an Ubuntu bug task to "Triaged" or "Won't Fix". 
 113 Jul 24 15:55:50 <kermiac>       This team is for more experienced bug triagers and the requirements for joining this team are more involved. These requirements can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl 
 114 Jul 24 15:56:09 <kermiac>       Any questions?
 115 Jul 24 15:56:51 <gorilla>       not yet.
 116 
 117 Jul 24 15:57:14 <kermiac>       ok, the last thing I wanted to discuss before moving into some example bugs is HugDays
 118 Jul 24 15:57:27 <kermiac>       What is a HugDay?
 119 Jul 24 15:57:41 <kermiac>       If you find that you like triaging bugs & want to get more involved, the BugSquad organises an event called "Ubuntu Bug Day" or Hug day (Triage a bug win a hug!) usually once a week. 
 120 Jul 24 15:57:50 <kermiac>       The basic idea of a Hug Day is to work together with the BugSquad and project maintainers to focus on a specific package or task. 
 121 Jul 24 15:58:05 <kermiac>       Hug Days are perfect to start working on the Bugsquad as there are always plenty of people around to guide you & answer any questions you might have.
 122 Jul 24 15:58:13 <kermiac>       More information on Hug Days can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/
 123 Jul 24 15:59:17 <kermiac>       Before I move on to working through a couple of example bugs I would like to mention that there are usually plenty of people willing to help with Bug Triage in #ubuntu-bugs (on the Freenode IRC Network). 
 124 Jul 24 15:59:33 <kermiac>       Also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Projects/BugJams#Helpful%20Bug%20Triaging%20Links has a collection of useful links. 
 125 Jul 24 15:59:53 <kermiac>       any questions before we start to look at a couple of example bug reports?
 126 
 127 
 128 Jul 24 16:02:28 <kermiac>       As I mentioned earlier, one of the easier task to get started with Bug Triage is assigning bugs to the correct package
 129 Jul 24 16:02:49 <kermiac>       lets open up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/608528
 130 Jul 24 16:02:51 <lubotu2>       Ubuntu bug 608528 in Ubuntu "unable to boot from dists past 9.04, 10.04 fails to bring up the desktop unable to update insufficient memory and unable to install a later version. previous 485171 passed to the linux package Upgraded from 9.04 to 9.1 and system fails reverting back to kernel 2.6.28.15 works but no sound. system fails on 9.1 live boot, using an Asus M2N68_VM motherboard which uses Nvidea 7 Series Shader model 3.0 and VT1708B H/D audio H
 131 Jul 24 16:03:11 <kermiac>       The first thing to do with this report is to change the title of that bug to something a little more manageable. Something like "Asus M2N68_VM fails to boot" will do.
 132 Jul 24 16:03:21 <gorilla>       hmmm. not easy to read short description.
 133 Jul 24 16:03:37 <kermiac>       does everyone have that bug open?
 134 Jul 24 16:03:42 <MoLE_> yep
 135 Jul 24 16:03:51 <gorilla>       yep.
 136 Jul 24 16:04:33 <kermiac>       ok, to change the title, we click on the little pencil inside a yellow circle next to the title (please don't do it - I will do it as we go through it together)
 137 Jul 24 16:05:01 <kermiac>       then we can change the title to something like "Asus M2N68_VM fails to boot"
 138 Jul 24 16:05:41 <kermiac>       ok, refresh that page. That title should be a lot more manageable
 139 Jul 24 16:07:17 <kermiac>       bug 608528
 140 Jul 24 16:07:19 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 608528 in Ubuntu "Asus M2N68_VM fails to boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608528
 141 Jul 24 16:07:40 <kermiac>       ok, did everyone refresh the page? The title should be a lot easier to manage now
 142 Jul 24 16:07:59 <gorilla>       kermiac: yep.
 143 Jul 24 16:08:36 <kermiac>       ok, the next thing we do is check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage to see what package this bug report should be filed under
 144 Jul 24 16:09:14 <kermiac>       The bug report mentions being unable to boot, so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage#During%20boot should cover it
 145 Jul 24 16:09:50 <MoLE_> I suspect friendlyfrank isn't a native english speaker
 146 Jul 24 16:09:52 <kermiac>       Checking https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage#During%20boot tells us that this should be filed against the kernel (the "linux" package)
 147 
 148 Jul 24 16:09:57 <nisshh>        kermiac: it looks like the wiki stuff for the bugsquad is pretty comprehensive
 149 Jul 24 16:10:40 <kermiac>       yes, the BugSquad Wiki is an invaluable reference that we (as triagers) refer to almost every day
 150 
 151 Jul 24 16:11:59 <MoLE_> It does sound like a kernel driver regression for his hardware doesn't it?
 152 Jul 24 16:12:19 <kermiac>       ok, so can assign this bug report to the "linux" package by clicking on the arrow next to the package (Ubuntu)
 153 Jul 24 16:12:22 <MoLE_> do we need to explain the term "regression" anyone?
 154 Jul 24 16:12:36 <kermiac>       MoLE_: yes, it does seem that way.
 155 Jul 24 16:12:59 <JoeMaverickSett>       please, could you explain the term? appreciate it.
 156 Jul 24 16:13:02 <gorilla>       MoLE_: regression? nope I'm okay with it.
 157 Jul 24 16:13:03 <kermiac>       Regression is basically "to go backwards", something that used to work but no longer does
 158 Jul 24 16:13:23 <JoeMaverickSett>       okie.
 159 Jul 24 16:13:28 <kermiac>       i.e. my webcam was working in 9.10, but it no longer works in 10.04
 160 Jul 24 16:13:36 <MoLE_> rofl @ kermiac 
 161 Jul 24 16:13:37 <gorilla>       and in theory shouldn't ever occur in production.
 162 Jul 24 16:13:57 <kermiac>       that's a *very* basic description, but hopefully it gives you the idea
 163 Jul 24 16:14:07 <JoeMaverickSett>       yup, it does. thanks.
 164 
 165 Jul 24 16:14:51 <kermiac>       ok, so did everyone click on the "down arrow" next to the package name to see what I am talking about?
 166 Jul 24 16:15:03 <MoLE_> yep
 167 Jul 24 16:15:06 <gorilla>       have now.
 168 Jul 24 16:15:50 <kermiac>       to assign this report to the "linux" package, we enter "linux" (without the quotes) into the textbox underneath the "package" header
 169 Jul 24 16:16:20 <kermiac>       note that if you don't know the exact name of the package you can click on the "Choose" link next to this textbox
 170 Jul 24 16:17:50 <kermiac>       that brings up a search box where you can enter in the start of the package namer (e.g. the first few letters) & then click on the magnifying glass to search for packages. Then you slelect a package name from the list
 171 Jul 24 16:19:09 <kermiac>       ok, now that we have assigned it to the correct package, we need to give some sort of response. We can look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses for a list of "Standard Responses" that the Bug Squad use
 172 Jul 24 16:19:51 <kermiac>       As we have decided that this is a kernel issue, we can use this reponse - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Debugging%20Kernel%20General
 173 Jul 24 16:20:54 <kermiac>       so we copy & paste that response into the "comment on this change" textbox & set the status to "Incomplete" as we require more information from the reporter. I will also assign the "Low" importance as this seems to fall under "Ones that affect unusual configurations or uncommon hardware" 
 174 Jul 24 16:21:22 <kermiac>       Another thing that is encouraged is to subscribe to the bug report so that we are notified of any updates
 175 
 176 Jul 24 16:21:27 <MoLE_> kermiac, doesn't the bug already contain apport bug info?
 177 Jul 24 16:21:52 <kermiac>       MoLE_:  the info that apport uploads changes, depending on which package it is assigned to
 178 Jul 24 16:22:01 <MoLE_> ah
 179 Jul 24 16:22:12 <kermiac>       as this was filed withough a package assigned to it, it only has the basic apport info attached
 180 
 181 Jul 24 16:22:14 <MoLE_> so do we need to remove the tag as well then?
 182 Jul 24 16:22:59 <gorilla>       MoLE_: which tag?
 183 Jul 24 16:23:29 <MoLE_> gorilla, apport-bug
 184 Jul 24 16:23:58 <gorilla>       MoLE_: ahh.. thanks.
 185 Jul 24 16:24:00 <kermiac>       we can tag it, however I am not certain that this is a regression so I am hesitant to add a regression tag
 186 Jul 24 16:24:14 <kermiac>       information on bug tags can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
 187 Jul 24 16:24:32 <MoLE_> I'm just wondering if we need to remove the apport-bug tag from the bug report if we are asking for more apport info
 188 Jul 24 16:26:39 <kermiac>       MoLE_: No, we wouldn't remove that tag as it was reported by apport
 189 Jul 24 16:26:53 <MoLE_> ok fair enough kermiac 
 190 
 191 Jul 24 16:24:15 <nisshh>        kermiac: QUESTION: if we find a bug that relates to software from a PPA (not in the repos) what then?
 192 Jul 24 16:25:43 <kermiac>       nisshh: in that case we would invalidate the bug with this response - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Packages%20not%20provided%20by%20Ubuntu
 193 Jul 24 16:26:12 <kermiac>       note under that standard response, there is one specifically for medibuntu packages also
 194 Jul 24 16:26:17 <nisshh>        kermiac: right
 195 
 196 Jul 24 16:26:54 <kermiac>       bug 608528
 197 Jul 24 16:26:56 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 608528 in linux (Ubuntu) "Asus M2N68_VM fails to boot" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608528
 198 Jul 24 16:27:17 <MoLE_> so you have rated this Low?
 199 Jul 24 16:27:22 <MoLE_> may I ask why?
 200 Jul 24 16:27:23 <kermiac>       ok, if we refresh the page it looks like we are now finished with that bug until the reporter supplies more info
 201 Jul 24 16:27:51 <kermiac>       I assigned the "Low" importance as this seems to fall under "Ones that affect unusual configurations or uncommon hardware"
 202 Jul 24 16:28:19 <kermiac>       mostly because it is "uncommon hardware" - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
 203 Jul 24 16:28:25 <MoLE_> Is the asus a5n laptop unusual?
 204 Jul 24 16:28:46 <MoLE_> And if so, who decides that?
 205 Jul 24 16:28:48 <kermiac>       only due to the fact that it only affects a small subset of users
 206 Jul 24 16:29:11 <head_victim>   So as opposed to if it affected ALL asus laptops or something?
 207 Jul 24 16:29:16 <gorilla>       MoLE_: sometimes you can only base that on the number of people reporting the issue.
 208 Jul 24 16:29:34 <kermiac>       it's a judgement call really, it only seems to affect that particular motherboard... yes what head_victim said is also true
 209 Jul 24 16:29:55 <MoLE_> Just ratholing for a sec, but I have seen several bugs which seem to affect a lot of people but is marked Low
 210 Jul 24 16:30:04 <kermiac>       that is also correct gorilla, as I said - it all comes down to being a judgement call
 211 Jul 24 16:30:21 <MoLE_> I guess the priority can be changed at any time?
 212 Jul 24 16:30:37 <kermiac>       MoLE_: if you look through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance you can see there are various reasons for a bug report to be classified as "low"
 213 Jul 24 16:31:33 <kermiac>       Also, you are correct MoLE_. The Importance is not "set in stone" & can be changed if/when necessary
 214 Jul 24 16:32:52 <kermiac>       ok, are there any questions about that bug report before I move on?
 215 Jul 24 16:33:07 <gorilla>       sounds good so far.
 216 
 217 Jul 24 16:33:36 <kermiac>       ok, moving on
 218 Jul 24 16:33:38 <kermiac>       Occasionally bug reports are actually a support request. Support requests can be easily converted to a question on the Launchpad Answer Tracker (https://answers.launchpad.net/) by clicking on the "Convert to a question" link on the top right hand side of the bug report. This will invalidate the bug with a brief explanation of why this bug report was converted to a question & open a new question on the Answer Tracker.
 219 Jul 24 16:34:09 <kermiac>       lets take a look at bug 609305
 220 Jul 24 16:34:10 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 609305 in totem (Ubuntu) " disk is not formatted to play in this region" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609305
 221 Jul 24 16:34:30 <kermiac>       Does everyone agree that appears to be a support request?
 222 Jul 24 16:34:51 <kermiac>       This bug report appears to be from someone who does not have the Restricted Extras" package installed.
 223 Jul 24 16:34:53 <gorilla>       kermiac: I think so.
 224 Jul 24 16:35:07 <kermiac>       I will convert this bug report to a question & refer them to these 2 wiki pages https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats & https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
 225 Jul 24 16:35:35 <MoLE_> I noticed there this version of totem isn't a genuine ubuntu package?
 226 Jul 24 16:37:36 <MoLE_> Also has a duplicate assigned to it
 227 Jul 24 16:37:39 <kermiac>       yes, that is most likely due to the version of the package the reporter has installed
 228 Jul 24 16:38:05 <kermiac>       yes, it has a duplicate assigned to it as the reporter filed 2 identical bugs so another triager has already duped the other report
 229 Jul 24 16:38:19 <MoLE_> so will the conversion process pick up both bugs?
 230 Jul 24 16:38:52 <kermiac>       yes, the other report will still be a duplicate of that bug
 231 Jul 24 16:39:18 <kermiac>       ok, so did everyone see how to convert the bug report to a question by clicking on the "Convert to a question" link on the top right hand side of the bug report
 232 Jul 24 16:39:34 <JoeMaverickSett>       yes.
 233 Jul 24 16:39:43 <MoLE_> yep
 234 Jul 24 16:40:05 <gorilla>       okay.. yep.. seee it.
 235 Jul 24 16:40:42 <kermiac>       this takes you to a screen like this - http://imgbin.org/images/2106.png
 236 Jul 24 16:40:58 <kermiac>       with a nice pre-filled explanation of what we are doing and why
 237 Jul 24 16:41:26 <kermiac>       then we click on the "Convert this bug into a question" button
 238 Jul 24 16:41:39 <gorilla>       kermiac: and we leave it up to the the reporter to ask why it's not a bug??
 239 Jul 24 16:42:15 <kermiac>       we hope that the reporter will read the comment we left
 240 Jul 24 16:42:33 <gorilla>       okay.
 241 Jul 24 16:42:40 <kermiac>       ok, if you refresh your page you will see that this is now converted to a question
 242 Jul 24 16:42:44 <kermiac>       bug 609305
 243 Jul 24 16:42:45 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 609305 in totem (Ubuntu) " disk is not formatted to play in this region" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609305
 244 Jul 24 16:43:16 <kermiac>       it has invalidated the bug report & opened https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+question/118801
 245 Jul 24 16:43:43 <gorilla>       neat.
 246 Jul 24 16:43:52 <MoLE_> launchpad magic
 247 Jul 24 16:44:14 <kermiac>       to follow up with this reporter, I will make a quick comment in the answer tracker mentioning those 2 wiki articles relating to the "restricted extras" package
 248 
 249 Jul 24 16:45:09 <MoLE_> kermiac, Question: is there an RSS feed of unassigned bugs?
 250 Jul 24 16:46:45 <kermiac>       MoLE_: I do not know of an RSS feed, http://is.gd/dE49D is a link to all of the bugs that have not been assigned to a package (currently 2294)
 251 Jul 24 16:47:31 <gorilla>       freck! I though we had a mismanaged queue at work.
 252 
 253 Jul 24 16:47:47 <kermiac>       ok, if you refresh https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+question/118801 you can see that I added a comment to follow up with the reporter that will hopefully help him resolve the issue he/she is experiencing
 254 
 255 Jul 24 16:47:55 <nUboon2Age>    kermiac: i just thought of one thing.  couldn't an argument be made that the error message is unecessarily confusing and needs to be rewritten to point the user in the direction of solving their problem.  Could not that be the real bug here?
 256 Jul 24 16:48:49 <kermiac>       nUboon2Age: that would be something that would need to be discussed on a mailing list or some other medium. Launchpad is not a soapbox or a discussion forum
 257 Jul 24 16:49:35 <nUboon2Age>    kermiac: ok
 258 Jul 24 16:49:57 <kermiac>       Also, if it turns out that a bug that we have converted into a question actually is a bug, we simply change the status from invalid to the necessary status
 259 Jul 24 16:50:15 <kermiac>       any other questions? I have one last example bug
 260 Jul 24 16:50:33 <head_victim>   kermiac: doing really well, these examples are gold
 261 Jul 24 16:51:02 <gorilla>       kermiac: going well thus fair. 
 262 
 263 Jul 24 16:51:04 <kermiac>       ok, the last example I want to go through is marking a bug as a duplicate
 264 Jul 24 16:51:07 <kermiac>       Unforutnately the nice example bug I choose this morning is no longer a good candidate to use as there is disagreement on exactly what the cause of the issue is. Instead we can go through the steps I took to mark this bug report as a duplicate a while ago.
 265 Jul 24 16:52:08 <kermiac>       let's take a look at the steps I took to mark bug 605933 as a duplicate about a week ago
 266 Jul 24 16:52:10 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 605933 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "client crashes at wlan change (dup-of: 458393)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605933
 267 Jul 24 16:52:11 <lubotu2>       Launchpad bug 458393 in Ubuntu One Client "BadTransition: SYS_SERVER_RESCAN_DONE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458393
 268 Jul 24 16:52:29 <kermiac>       please open the 605933 link above
 269 Jul 24 16:53:29 <kermiac>       With Ubuntu One related bugs, a lot of useful information can be found in the attached "syncdaemon.exceptions.log.txt" file. 
 270 Jul 24 16:53:42 <kermiac>       If you click on that file, the important information is at the bottom - "BadTransition: State READY_WAITING_WITH_METAQ can't handle the SYS_SERVER_RESCAN_DONE event"
 271 Jul 24 16:54:36 <kermiac>       so we need to try to find a bug report with that information in it that we can use as a "master" bug report
 272 Jul 24 16:54:44 <kermiac>       Unfortunately, the search mechanism within Launchpad does not always find duplicate reports. To workaround this issue I use google when seaching for duplicates. To use google to search for duplicate bug reports you do the following steps:
 273 Jul 24 16:55:02 <kermiac>       goto www.google.com & use the following as a search term:
 274 Jul 24 16:55:13 <kermiac>       site:bugs.launchpad.net "INSERT ERROR/DESCRIPTION HERE"
 275 Jul 24 16:55:36 <kermiac>       e.g. - site:bugs.launchpad.net "gnome-panel crash"  will display all LP bugs containing the search term "gnome-panel crash".
 276 Jul 24 16:55:49 <kermiac>       You can use any of the google search operators to help refine your search results. See http://www.google.com/help/cheatsheet.html for more detailed information regarding google search operators
 277 Jul 24 16:56:11 <kermiac>       ok, back to our example
 278 Jul 24 16:57:09 <kermiac>       we can use the following google search to find duplicate bug reports that contain the same error message as our example bug
 279 Jul 24 16:57:36 <kermiac>       site:bugs.launchpad.net "BadTransition: State READY_WAITING_WITH_METAQ can't handle the SYS_SERVER_RESCAN_DONE event"
 280 Jul 24 16:58:41 <kermiac>       If we use google to search for duplicate bugs with that string, it shows 2 bug reports. If we open those 2 bug reports we can see that they have both been marked as duplicates of bug 458393
 281 Jul 24 16:59:12 <kermiac>       If we look at bug 458393, we can see that it is the "master" bug report for this issue.
 282 Jul 24 16:59:32 <kermiac>       To mark a bug report as a duplicate, you click on the "mark as duplicate" link on the top right hand side of the bug report,add the bug report number for the "master" bug report & then click on the tick to save our changes.
 283 Jul 24 16:59:48 <kermiac>       You can read through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/MarkingDuplicate for more information on marking bug reports as duplicates.
 284 Jul 24 17:01:42 <kermiac>       ok, thanks for coming to this session, I hope everyone learned something today
 285 Jul 24 17:01:45 <JoeMaverickSett>       thanks for the session. learned a lot.
 286 Jul 24 17:02:47 <kermiac>       I will add a link to the session logs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Projects/BugJams & I will send an email to the AU mailing list after I have uploaded the logs
 287 Jul 24 17:02:49 <head_victim>   kermiac: thank you for going through all of this. I think a lot of the barrier is the confidence to actually do this stuff. So now we know what it's meant to be I for one am a lot more confident looking at it all even if I already knew the basic procedure.
 288 Jul 24 17:03:08 *       MoLE_ applauds kermiac for his efforts
 289 Jul 24 17:03:14 <kermiac>       excellent, also please feel free to ping me with any question you may have
 290 Jul 24 17:03:47 <kermiac>       also, there are a lot of people in #ubuntu-bugs who would be more than happy to help with any triaging questions you may have
 291 Jul 24 17:04:01 <head_victim>   It's sometimes a bit daunting to go into #ubuntu-bugs and stuff to ask questions when you're very new so this was really good.
 292 Jul 24 17:04:22 <MoLE_> I'm with head_victim I'm too scared to go into #ubuntu-bugs yet
 293 Jul 24 17:04:34 <nUboon2Age>    me too
 294 Jul 24 17:06:57 <kermiac>       Please don't be "scared" to come into #ubuntu-bugs
 295 Jul 24 17:07:04 <kermiac>       we don't bite (hard) :P
 296 Jul 24 17:07:17 <JoeMaverickSett>       lol!
 297 Jul 24 17:07:19 <MoLE_> I hope they have all signed the CoC
 298 Jul 24 17:07:26 <kermiac>       there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
 299 Jul 24 17:07:53 <kermiac>       well, everyone on the Bug Squad & Bug Control Teams have - it's a requirement
 300 
 301 Jul 24 17:04:52 <kermiac>       If you find that you are enjoying bug triage, please join the bug squad & look into the Bug Squad Mentoring program. I (along with many others) are mentors in that program & we are always looking for more students. I think the backlog has pretty much cleared now
 302 Jul 24 17:05:23 <head_victim>   Well kermiac I think you've just got a channel of unofficial students either way.
 303 Jul 24 17:05:34 <MoLE_> yup
 304 Jul 24 17:05:41 <MoLE_> poor kermiac 
 305 Jul 24 17:05:41 <JoeMaverickSett>       yup. :D
 306 Jul 24 17:05:54 <MoLE_> you're stuck with us now
 307 
 308 Jul 24 17:03:54 <nUboon2Age>    i've got a question, (maybe you answered part of this above) what is the criteria for marking 'triaged', and who has the permission to mark it triaged?
 309 Jul 24 17:06:38 <kermiac>       nUboon2Age: "triaged" basically means that the report has all of the information required for a dev to work on fixing the bug. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status for more info
 310 
 311 Jul 24 17:08:45 <JoeMaverickSett>       so, if i want to start out as a rookie bug triager, i have to sign the CoC? right?
 312 Jul 24 17:08:52 <nisshh>        kermiac: i think ill join the mentoring program, iv been meaning to get into triaging for a while now
 313 Jul 24 17:08:59 <head_victim>   kermiac: thanks again for your time, really well put together. I have to run away now to work but so glad it fell within a time I could make.
 314 Jul 24 17:09:04 <MoLE_> JoeMaverickSett, I don't think so, only if you want to join the bugsquad
 315 Jul 24 17:09:23 <nisshh>        kermiac: great lesson too by the way, i learnt a few things
 316 Jul 24 17:09:37 <MoLE_> kermiac, me too, and I've been reporting bugs since 2006
 317 Jul 24 17:09:39 <JoeMaverickSett>       MoLE_, oh! okie.also, p
 318 Jul 24 17:09:41 <nUboon2Age>    thanks kermiac!
 319 Jul 24 17:10:05 <JoeMaverickSett>       thank you kermiac !
 320 Jul 24 17:10:27 <kermiac>       JoeMaverickSett: anyone can start triaging bugs as long as they have a Launchpad acount. However, it is encouraged to join the Bug Squad so that you can get help  & if we see that you need a hand we can help you out & know you aren't just randomly changing bug reports
 321 Jul 24 17:10:43 <JoeMaverickSett>       kermiac, ok.
 322 Jul 24 17:10:49 <JoeMaverickSett>       got it
 323 Jul 24 17:11:01 <kermiac>       Thanks again to everyone for joining in on the session, it seemed to be very productive