Log of Education Focus Group Meeting on 3/7/09

Meeting Agenda

  • Taking the 'classroom' to the next level by mixing live and non-live (forum / wiki) content
  • Dynamic scheduling (Vantrax)
  • Monthly meetings or not


[Sat Mar 7 21:38:21] <forestpixie> what - anything at all?

[Sat Mar 7 22:44:50] <forestpixie> hi PartyBoi2 come for the party

[Sat Mar 7 22:45:28] <PartyBoi2> yeah, thought I would sit in on the meeting Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 22:46:0] <forestpixie> something might even happen

[Sat Mar 7 22:46:18] <PartyBoi2> you mean like more people will turn up? :P

[Sat Mar 7 22:47:6] <forestpixie> well we can hope more turn up for this than a lesson

[Sat Mar 7 22:48:5] <PartyBoi2> hopefully more will start turning up for the lessons as well Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 22:48:34] <forestpixie> apparently irc council might be as well, but I won't hold my breath

[Sat Mar 7 22:49:9] <PartyBoi2> that would be nice if they do

[Sat Mar 7 22:50:33] <PartyBoi2> so how is the job going?

[Sat Mar 7 22:51:52] <forestpixie> I am knackered - but it's good Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 22:55:32] <forestpixie> 5 minutes to the meeting and votebot you and I are here - nhandler said he couldn't make it

[Sat Mar 7 22:56:7] <forestpixie> brb - have a cup of tea

[Sat Mar 7 22:56:13] <PartyBoi2> hi Rocket2DMn

[Sat Mar 7 22:56:16] <forestpixie> hi Rocket2DMn

[Sat Mar 7 22:56:27] <Rocket2DMn> yo, where's charles...

[Sat Mar 7 22:57:11] <forestpixie> changed his name to votebot I think Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:0:32] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well i guess ill run the meeting Wink ;)

[Sat Mar 7 23:1:2] <forestpixie> cool - 2 secs

[Sat Mar 7 23:1:19] <Rocket2DMn> long story short, the education FG is disappearing since Microsoft is paying us off

[Sat Mar 7 23:1:23] <Rocket2DMn> end of story, kthxbye

[Sat Mar 7 23:2:3] <forestpixie> it appeared to be fairly low key anyway

[Sat Mar 7 23:5:8] <forestpixie> bit of a wind blowing through here then

[Sat Mar 7 23:6:25] <Rocket2DMn> turns on the boombox

[Sat Mar 7 23:6:43] <forestpixie> turn that down I'm watching the tv Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:7:12] <Rocket2DMn> cranks the volume

[Sat Mar 7 23:7:15] <Rocket2DMn> 80s music baby yeah!

[Sat Mar 7 23:7:22] <forestpixie> lightweight

[Sat Mar 7 23:7:40] <forestpixie> god I hated the music in the 80s

[Sat Mar 7 23:8:4] <forestpixie> vantrax is on his way

[Sat Mar 7 23:8:37] <Vantrax> so no cp eh

[Sat Mar 7 23:9:6] <forestpixie> nope - he's not normally tardy in my recollection

[Sat Mar 7 23:9:27] <Vantrax> yeah, little odd

[Sat Mar 7 23:9:50] <forestpixie> I wonder if he thinks the time is different?

[Sat Mar 7 23:9:52] <Vantrax> May as well get started then

[Sat Mar 7 23:9:59] <Vantrax> nah, he set the time

[Sat Mar 7 23:10:36] <Vantrax> lets do the easy one and give him some time: Meetings weekly or fortnightly

[Sat Mar 7 23:11:11] <forestpixie> well at this rate bimonthly would do Wink ;)

[Sat Mar 7 23:11:37] <Vantrax> lol

[Sat Mar 7 23:11:46] <Vantrax> Thats true unfortunately

[Sat Mar 7 23:12:18] <Vantrax> however all the training soon as we have a solid system will be regularly announced in the uwn and fridge

[Sat Mar 7 23:13:2] <Vantrax> any other opinion?

[Sat Mar 7 23:13:22] <forestpixie> not sure what you mean by that

[Sat Mar 7 23:14:16] <forestpixie> what training? who's doing it?

[Sat Mar 7 23:14:58] <Vantrax> classroom events

[Sat Mar 7 23:15:5] <Rocket2DMn> i should probably get cprofitt's phone number

[Sat Mar 7 23:15:10] <Vantrax> yeah

[Sat Mar 7 23:15:31] <Vantrax> so leave meetings monthly then?

[Sat Mar 7 23:15:56] <forestpixie> I still don't know what events you think are going to be done?

[Sat Mar 7 23:16:6] <forestpixie> +1 monthly

[Sat Mar 7 23:17:5] <Vantrax> that kinda brings me to the next one, but we will get there

[Sat Mar 7 23:17:31] <Vantrax> +1 monthly for me too

[Sat Mar 7 23:17:41] <Vantrax> PartyBoi2, Rocket2DMn any opinions

[Sat Mar 7 23:17:54] <Rocket2DMn> im really just here as an observer

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:3] <Rocket2DMn> you guys do what you want Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:8] <forestpixie> lol

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:9] <Vantrax> ok, we will stick with monthly then:P

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:20] <Vantrax> Taking the 'classroom' to the next level by mixing live and non-live (forum / wiki) content.

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:28] <PartyBoi2> so am I, but if you want my input I would say monthly at the moment till things pick up

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:44] <Vantrax> This is kinda an extension of what was talked about in the last team meeting

[Sat Mar 7 23:18:55] <forestpixie> I think PartyBoi2 that you have done enough to be really in the team

[Sat Mar 7 23:19:17] <forestpixie> which I copuldn't get to Vantrax - are logs available>

[Sat Mar 7 23:19:22] <Vantrax> live has been a major issue due to the varying levels of attendance of different topics:P

[Sat Mar 7 23:19:26] <Vantrax> probably

[Sat Mar 7 23:19:29] <Vantrax> ill summarise

[Sat Mar 7 23:20:28] <Vantrax> My current train of thought is to develop the wiki course content as if it is a textbook with exercises to be done, but with no answers.

[Sat Mar 7 23:20:58] <Vantrax> Nominated people would be available at specific times to assist with working out the answers or answering questions.

[Sat Mar 7 23:21:11] <forestpixie> o/

[Sat Mar 7 23:21:43] <Vantrax> Some content wouldnt really need the exercise/question time, others like st33med's python course would require a ton

[Sat Mar 7 23:21:46] <Vantrax> yeah forestpixie

[Sat Mar 7 23:22:59] <forestpixie> some would be hard to move to a wiki type course - mine for instance would require either a spare drive or a vm to work in - which then means that lessons need to be run to deal with the needed infrastructure

[Sat Mar 7 23:23:26] <forestpixie> hard to pretend to run fdisk Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:24:18] <forestpixie> carry on Vantrax

[Sat Mar 7 23:25:14] <Vantrax> true, but it can be written with commands and sample return data with explanations of how to interpret the data

[Sat Mar 7 23:25:56] <forestpixie> possibly

[Sat Mar 7 23:26:38] <Vantrax> So in theory doing content this way allows more dynamic scheduling. If they have questions with the content they look at the availability of people who can answer questions in regard to the material

[Sat Mar 7 23:27:13] <Vantrax> so there would be a list of names, and approx online times where you would be willing to assist with xyz course

[Sat Mar 7 23:27:37] <Vantrax> much of the feedback has been the courses are good, but the timing sucks

[Sat Mar 7 23:27:51] <PartyBoi2> where would these questions be asked and answered?

[Sat Mar 7 23:28:13] <forestpixie> what feedback? - this is the problem with this fg - no-one seems to know what's going on

[Sat Mar 7 23:28:18] <Vantrax> at this stage i would be assuming this channel, or a channel created for this purpose

[Sat Mar 7 23:28:28] <Rocket2DMn> o/

[Sat Mar 7 23:28:39] <forestpixie> personally I think that we should do it here - we can then see how many come along

[Sat Mar 7 23:28:53] <Vantrax> Ive been asking around for feedback on the way its being run in a few channels

[Sat Mar 7 23:29:3] <Vantrax> jump in Rocket2DMn

[Sat Mar 7 23:29:30] <Rocket2DMn> Thanks. For help content on the wiki - would you like to place that on the Community Docs rather than the team wiki (where our team wiki pages reside). If documentation is pretty complete, I think the community docs are a great place for them, esp. if they augment existing documentation

[Sat Mar 7 23:29:38] <Vantrax> id like to see Rocket2DMn do a triaging course:P

[Sat Mar 7 23:30:7] <forestpixie> some of the stuff I can use Rocket2DMn is from wiki/doc pages

[Sat Mar 7 23:30:10] <Rocket2DMn> Vantrax, i know, in time perhaps I will

[Sat Mar 7 23:30:31] <Vantrax> That would be the plan, I was thinking of getting the council to set up a Community Docs link on the main page that links to training resources

[Sat Mar 7 23:30:35] <Rocket2DMn> forestpixie, which wiki? community docs (h.u.c) or wiki.ubuntu.com (w.u.c)

[Sat Mar 7 23:31:3] <forestpixie> can't remember of the top of my head - the fstab page is one though

[Sat Mar 7 23:31:9] <Rocket2DMn> thats on h.u.c

[Sat Mar 7 23:31:39] <Rocket2DMn> If you choose to use h.u.c, I can help you create an appropriate structure for placing the pages there

[Sat Mar 7 23:31:52] <Vantrax> that would be great

[Sat Mar 7 23:32:4] <forestpixie> not sure if there was stuff for chmod or chown - but I'd be happy to write it if necessary

[Sat Mar 7 23:32:10] <Rocket2DMn> I can ask the doc team, too

[Sat Mar 7 23:32:26] <Rocket2DMn> perhaps they have ideas on how they would like education session integrated

[Sat Mar 7 23:32:29] <Vantrax> The intended outcome would be people get information and learn from the documentation, then look up the next question time

[Sat Mar 7 23:32:52] <Vantrax> attend that with a list of questions already to make the time more meaningful

[Sat Mar 7 23:33:2] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, h.u.c. may not be the best place for ALL the stuff that the education FG does, but at least for some of the session it could be good

[Sat Mar 7 23:33:37] <Rocket2DMn> you can always start on w.u.c and then import to h.u.c at a later time

[Sat Mar 7 23:33:39] <Vantrax> Rocket2DMn, of course not, but the training documentation would sit there well

[Sat Mar 7 23:34:10] <Rocket2DMn> its just dependent on the stuff being taught, thats all im trying to say

[Sat Mar 7 23:34:17] <forestpixie> +1 Rocket2DMn

[Sat Mar 7 23:34:18] <Rocket2DMn> /my 2 cents Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:34:53] <Vantrax> Id also like to see the information covering middle level difficulty items. Stuff like gconf-editor, cluster ssh, maniuplating rc.local

[Sat Mar 7 23:35:11] <Vantrax> of course Rocket2DMn

[Sat Mar 7 23:35:18] <Vantrax> and there would have to be some sort of approval process

[Sat Mar 7 23:36:12] <forestpixie> I agree

[Sat Mar 7 23:36:15] <Vantrax> the idea of this is that more than 'tutor' could learn forestpixie's fstab/fdisk tute and answer questions. Meaning its not just forestpixie doing all the work for it

[Sat Mar 7 23:36:27] <Vantrax> so more contact times

[Sat Mar 7 23:36:55] <Vantrax> so in theory, you just have to be idle in the nominated channel and they join and ping you if they have questions

[Sat Mar 7 23:37:5] <Vantrax> during the timeframe

[Sat Mar 7 23:37:35] <Vantrax> then we should attempt to have a timeframe that works for each major timezone, Europe, US, and Asia-Pacific

[Sat Mar 7 23:37:58] <Vantrax> an ideas

[Sat Mar 7 23:38:27] <Vantrax> *any

[Sat Mar 7 23:38:58] <forestpixie> yea - all sounds good in theory - but how many of us are there? I'm idle in this channel everytime I log on - so am happy to do my bit

[Sat Mar 7 23:39:28] <Vantrax> yeah, that is the problem, there is only a half dozen of us

[Sat Mar 7 23:39:40] <forestpixie> that many?

[Sat Mar 7 23:39:48] <Vantrax> but only need 1 on in each timezone on say friday/sat night

[Sat Mar 7 23:40:21] <Vantrax> we should be able to get more, once we have a clear process and direction established

[Sat Mar 7 23:40:35] <Vantrax> at this stage it kinda feels like its all over the place

[Sat Mar 7 23:40:48] <Vantrax> and Its hard to see where you can help and fit in...

[Sat Mar 7 23:41:18] <forestpixie> well I did my bit and quite honestly it was a waste of my time and energy Sad :(

[Sat Mar 7 23:41:30] <Vantrax> also the burden of teaching would be less, seeing as you dont have to come to run a class, just be idle to answer questions

[Sat Mar 7 23:41:44] <Vantrax> and if no one comes, the letdown is less

[Sat Mar 7 23:41:50] <Vantrax> which has been an issue

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:15] <forestpixie> which brings me back to the feedback thing - if there is some then it might be worth having a wiki page that it can be put on

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:17] <Vantrax> no one wants to feel like the work they put in is useless. This way it might just mean you write excellent training documentation:P

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:27] <Vantrax> forestpixie, +1

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:35] <Vantrax> great idea, ill chat to cp about that when hes on

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:41] <Vantrax> hes still the boss

[Sat Mar 7 23:42:46] <forestpixie> because I have no idea if there waas any for mine

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:5] <Vantrax> :P

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:5] <forestpixie> other than pleia thanking me in pm

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:18] <Vantrax> pleia was going to come to this actually

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:25] <Vantrax> he wanted to help out

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:40] <forestpixie> she's a she

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:43] <forestpixie> Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:50] <Vantrax> ok then >.<

[Sat Mar 7 23:43:54] <Vantrax> lucky she didnt come

[Sat Mar 7 23:44:2] <Vantrax> wont make that mistake again

[Sat Mar 7 23:44:9] <forestpixie> I'll tell her you said that heh

[Sat Mar 7 23:44:34] <PartyBoi2> she probably read the logs

[Sat Mar 7 23:44:50] <Vantrax> pleia is right behind this idea, soon as we have something that can work im sure she will help get it some exposure

[Sat Mar 7 23:45:1] <forestpixie> yea I know she is

[Sat Mar 7 23:45:19] <Vantrax> she said as much during the council meeting yesterday

[Sat Mar 7 23:45:43] <Vantrax> is a newly minted council member

[Sat Mar 7 23:45:47] <Vantrax> er ubuntu

[Sat Mar 7 23:45:53] <Vantrax> facepalm

[Sat Mar 7 23:46:0] <Vantrax> its early for me

[Sat Mar 7 23:46:1] <forestpixie> yea she spoke to me after mine

[Sat Mar 7 23:47:10] <Vantrax> since cp isnt here, ill write up a comprehensive explanation of how this idea can work linked to the meeting page for the next meeting.

[Sat Mar 7 23:47:16] <Vantrax> cant really do much more

[Sat Mar 7 23:47:54] <Vantrax> also i think we should cover advanced topics too. It seems that the more advanced topics such as python programming received the most popularity

[Sat Mar 7 23:48:19] <forestpixie> have you seen the list of instructors Vantrax ?

[Sat Mar 7 23:48:20] <Vantrax> any other thoughts before we finish?

[Sat Mar 7 23:48:24] <Vantrax> yeah

[Sat Mar 7 23:48:38] <forestpixie> hang on - got a sleepwalker

[Sat Mar 7 23:48:43] <Vantrax> 5 of em

[Sat Mar 7 23:50:7] <forestpixie> no just one - that's too many lol

[Sat Mar 7 23:50:26] <forestpixie> ok so yes I think that it's a good idea but

[Sat Mar 7 23:51:39] <forestpixie> we can plan how to do these things till we are blue in the face but we haven't got anyone actually prepare to run anything - I'm not talking about st33 here I assume that he still run's the python thing

[Sat Mar 7 23:52:48] <Vantrax> yep

[Sat Mar 7 23:52:52] <forestpixie> you are on the list as a instructor Vantrax - are you planning anything? I guess after mine I'm a bit negative - I don't mean it to sound that way - but I'#ve been at the sharp end

[Sat Mar 7 23:53:2] <Vantrax> yeah, I know

[Sat Mar 7 23:53:12] <Vantrax> and yes, planning 3 atm

[Sat Mar 7 23:53:21] <Vantrax> the problem is timezones again

[Sat Mar 7 23:53:52] <forestpixie> indeed I plan to run my one again twice in a day once jaunty releases

[Sat Mar 7 23:54:25] <Vantrax> By reworking the way the system works, I can learn the content for all the courses, and be available to answer questions during the asia-pacific question time

[Sat Mar 7 23:54:47] <Vantrax> one person can effectively cover several courses for questions at once if neccesary

[Sat Mar 7 23:56:40] <forestpixie> and then we are back to how many people are going to do things - I really think that before we start deciding on how we are going to do things we have a less nebulous idea of who is doing things

[Sat Mar 7 23:56:43] <Vantrax> improves what we are capable of with minimal users

[Sat Mar 7 23:56:58] <forestpixie> it just feels a bit horse/cart chicken/egg

[Sat Mar 7 23:57:3] <Vantrax> user = instructors

[Sat Mar 7 23:57:5] <Vantrax> true

[Sat Mar 7 23:57:25] <forestpixie> I know that the FG is really wuite young at the moment

[Sat Mar 7 23:57:39] <forestpixie> and is going to be in flux until it settles

[Sat Mar 7 23:57:46] <Vantrax> but this way, even without instructors we can improve what we are capable of by providing the materials, if not the additional live training

[Sat Mar 7 23:58:14] <Vantrax> im trying to get us effective so we can be providing education, even if it wont be always live to start with

[Sat Mar 7 23:58:15] <forestpixie> no what we have then is a few people having to do much more

[Sat Mar 7 23:58:28] <Vantrax> more and less

[Sat Mar 7 23:58:48] <Vantrax> less training because the materials should cover most of it, more answering questions

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:12] <Vantrax> ive implemented a similar system to train new sysadmins at work:P

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:13] <forestpixie> well all we can do is have a go I suppose

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:22] <Vantrax> it worked out to be less work overall, but more to get started

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:26] <forestpixie> yes well I don't work for the FG Vantrax

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:38] <Vantrax> yeah i know, me either

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:42] <forestpixie> Smile :)

[Sat Mar 7 23:59:56] <forestpixie> not that I'm not happy doing what I can do though


BeginnersTeam/Meetings/EducationFG/20090307 (last edited 2009-03-08 16:36:13 by c-69-253-233-196)