20080617

This page is NOT to be deleted, it only references CategoryDeletion. Thank you.

Thank you for the log, nhandler.

Log of Wiki Focus Group Meeting on 6/17/08

Meeting Agenda

Who

What

Rocket2DMn

discuss our purpose

Rocket2DMn

introduce the wiki

Rocket2DMn

community wiki work and teams

Log

[Wed Jun 18 00:01:54 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Hello all, welcome to the first UF BT Wiki Focus Group meeting - the first FG meeting of any kind, I believe Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:02:08 2008] <Rocket2DMn> This meeting will be a little different than normal team meetings. I have a lot to say, so I will put it here a bit at a time, and feel free to stop me at any time to ask a question. Otherwise please keep the chatter to a minimum so we can finish quickly and not waste time.

[Wed Jun 18 00:02:11 2008] <bodhi_zazen> \o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:02:33 2008] <Rocket2DMn> lol

[Wed Jun 18 00:02:40 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I have formatted some of my text in this meeting to look good on the wiki, and to remind you of some wiki markup in the process.

[Wed Jun 18 00:02:51 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Questions RE: the format of this meeting?

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:09 2008] <Rocket2DMn> alrighty then

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:10 2008] <Rocket2DMn>


[Wed Jun 18 00:03:14 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Topic 1: The Focus Group =

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> The primary purpose of our FG is to help with the community documentation, which is the wiki area at https://help.ubuntu.com/community - NOT https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ (though we may draw from there on a regular basis for documentation help or importing pre-written documentation to the community wiki).

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:29 2008] <chanlog> Title: User Documentation - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:45 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Most of the rest of this meeting will be geared toward getting you guys up to speed with working on the community wiki.

[Wed Jun 18 00:03:58 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Questions RE: our purpose?

[Wed Jun 18 00:04:07 2008] <bodhi_zazen> o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:04:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> ?

[Wed Jun 18 00:04:30 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Teach team members :

[Wed Jun 18 00:04:45 2008] <bodhi_zazen> 1. How to use wiki (many may not be aware of the content)

[Wed Jun 18 00:04:57 2008] <bodhi_zazen> 2. How not to duplicate effort

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:03 2008] <bodhi_zazen> ie do not re-create the wheel

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:09 2008] <bodhi_zazen> 3. How to wiki

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:10 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:24 2008] <bodhi_zazen> use our pages as a "sandbox" if needed

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:31 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yes, all of that will be touched on

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:37 2008] <bodhi_zazen> /end rant

[Wed Jun 18 00:05:55 2008] <Rocket2DMn> RE: sandboxes, some people create test pages under the wiki.ubuntu.com homepage, at like wiki.ubuntu.com/username/test

[Wed Jun 18 00:06:16 2008] <Rocket2DMn> the help.ubuntu.com area is not really appropriate for such pages

[Wed Jun 18 00:06:29 2008] <Rocket2DMn> moving on:

[Wed Jun 18 00:06:34 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Topic 2: The Wiki =

[Wed Jun 18 00:06:54 2008] <Rocket2DMn> thank you hetirv , bookmark that one guys

[Wed Jun 18 00:06:58 2008] <alan_m> Great point hetirv

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:16 2008] <Rocket2DMn> So as I mentioned before, the community wiki is at https://help.ubuntu.com/community

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:24 2008] <chanlog> Title: User Documentation - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:26 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Right now, the wiki is really outdated and incomplete because of Ubuntu's rapid release cycle, so those of us here who have already started scoping out the territory (namely PrivateVoid, Old_Soldier, and me) have begun to call this the Summer of Documentation.

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:30 2008] <limac> vor-ubuntu: it is giving me a compiler error saying: test.cpp:48: error: invalid conversion from 'char' to 'const char*'

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:30 2008] <limac> test.cpp:48: error: initializing argument 1 of 'int atoi(const char*)'

[Wed Jun 18 00:07:51 2008] <alan_m> limac, can you take that to pm?

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:01 2008] <Rocket2DMn> limac and vor-ubuntu , can you please take your chat to one of our other channels please? we are having a meeting Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:13 2008] <limac> alan_m: oh sorry people

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:18 2008] <Rocket2DMn> no problem

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> KEY: Our goal, for the time being, will be to get as much of the wiki cleaned out and up to date as possible this summer.

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:42 2008] <PrivateVoid> o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:52 2008] <Rocket2DMn> we can discuss details of that later

[Wed Jun 18 00:08:56 2008] <Rocket2DMn> IMPORTANT: There are directions on our FG page to register with the doc-team mailing list, along with a bunch of wiki pages that you MUST READ, as in NOT OPTIONAL. These pages are crucial to working appropriately with the wiki. There are also a bunch of links to help teach you how to edit the wiki in the MoinMoin format. See Beginners/Team/FocusGroups/Wiki

[Wed Jun 18 00:09:28 2008] <Rocket2DMn> (note the wiki formatted link)

[Wed Jun 18 00:09:42 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Note that the ubuntu-doc IRC channel is here on Freenode at #ubuntu-doc - the channel is pretty dead, but I'm sure we can liven it up with relevant talk - do your daily chit chat in the BT channel, use the doc channel professionally.

[Wed Jun 18 00:09:51 2008] <limac> vor-ubuntu: mind pm?

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:19 2008] <Rocket2DMn> (here's a big one)

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> On the topic of professionalism, it is of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE that you interact with the mailing list, ubuntu-doc IRC channel, and wiki itself using your best behavior, it is not as relaxed as the forums or the BT channel - please remember that the Ubuntu Code of Conduct applies at all times. Also remember that you represent the UF Beginners Team, and your actions and conduct reflect on your peers as wel

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> l as yourself. I thank you in advance for this.

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:37 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I trust that you all can handle that without problems, I don't expect it will be an issue for anybody here, it just needed to be said this once.

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:38 2008] <bodhi_zazen> +11

[Wed Jun 18 00:10:51 2008] <alan_m> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:11:09 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I know you guys are good, hehe

[Wed Jun 18 00:11:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Now, before we proceed with the details, I really want to stress that the wiki really is more "official" than the forums, and much slower paced. When you edit pages, it will take quite awhile to do a single page. Pages must be done completely and formatted correctly. For your first page or two, you should run it by another team member when you are finished (like me, Old_Soldier, or PrivateVoid). Honest fe

[Wed Jun 18 00:11:13 2008] <Rocket2DMn> edback is helpful feedback.

[Wed Jun 18 00:11:49 2008] <alan_m> Rocket2DMn: dont forget me Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:00 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yes, alan_m too =D

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:11 2008] <Rocket2DMn> remember, there are links on our FG page for help with wiki formatting and whatnot

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:19 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Please add sandbox link to the focus group wiki page

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:30 2008] <alan_m> bodhi_zazen: taking care of that Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:35 2008] <Rocket2DMn> right on

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:37 2008] <bodhi_zazen> \o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:39 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Questions RE: getting started or doc-team conduct?

[Wed Jun 18 00:12:53 2008] <Rocket2DMn> am i moving too fast? too slow?

[Wed Jun 18 00:13:06 2008] <bodhi_zazen> perfect

[Wed Jun 18 00:13:26 2008] <Rocket2DMn> groovy, we're about 1/2 done with everything i have planned out

[Wed Jun 18 00:13:30 2008] <PrivateVoid> o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:13:36 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yessir?

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:11 2008] <alan_m> Rocket2DMn: database downage i cant :/

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:27 2008] <Rocket2DMn> dont worry about it alan_m , we'll take care of it after the meeting

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:30 2008] <PrivateVoid> Two things... I would like to see us (Old Soldier, You and I) get an established format for labelling

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:34 2008] <Rocket2DMn> LP is down today, too i believe

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:35 2008] <alan_m> Rocket2DMn: ok

[Wed Jun 18 00:14:40 2008] <PrivateVoid> current, old versions. etc

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:00 2008] <bodhi_zazen> alan_m, that is what I said

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:01 2008] <PrivateVoid> I know we are working on that in the mailing list, but it would be nice to get that agreed too in principle

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:03 2008] <Rocket2DMn> ok PrivateVoid , can you bring that up again at the end ?

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:17 2008] <PrivateVoid> sure...

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:25 2008] <PrivateVoid> just seemed relevant to working with the doc team

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:38 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Add it to wiki focus group ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:15:48 2008] <Rocket2DMn> it is, we will hammer out specific wiki details at the end. For now we are basically just introducing

[Wed Jun 18 00:16:12 2008] <alan_m> bodhi_zazen: i thought you were meaning launchpad..didnt realize EVERYTHING was blown to pieces...thought they were working on different servers at different times.

[Wed Jun 18 00:16:38 2008] <Rocket2DMn> its alright, moving on then

[Wed Jun 18 00:16:42 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Topic 3: Working with the Community Wiki =

[Wed Jun 18 00:16:55 2008] <Rocket2DMn> The MoinMoin format of the wiki allows us to categorize pages so they can easily be tracked from a central Category page. There are a number of these that will be crucial to getting the wiki up to date. See CategoryCategory for the complete list - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory

[Wed Jun 18 00:17:00 2008] <chanlog> Title: CategoryCategory - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:17:27 2008] <Rocket2DMn> that is the same idea as what PrivateVoid mentioned a minute ago, for tagging pages with versions

[Wed Jun 18 00:17:42 2008] <Rocket2DMn> it uses the Category feature

[Wed Jun 18 00:17:55 2008] <Rocket2DMn> The first very useful Category is called CategoryCleanup - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup - this is used to mark pages that are outdated and need to be updated, are incorrectly formatted, or do not follow the standards of documentation. This category is huge and will take most of our time to clean up - many pages need major updates or complete rewrites.

[Wed Jun 18 00:18:00 2008] <chanlog> Title: CategoryCleanup - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:18:31 2008] <Rocket2DMn> The second is called CategoryNeedsExpansion - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryNeedsExpansion - this page is relatively small but the pages there require some serious work. It's self-explanatory.

[Wed Jun 18 00:18:44 2008] <chanlog> Title: CategoryNeedsExpansion - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:18:55 2008] <Rocket2DMn> pages can be categorized under multiple categories, so some may have both of those

[Wed Jun 18 00:19:13 2008] <Rocket2DMn> For either of these two categories, if you specialize in a certain area or have good experience for one of the topics, then that page is perfect for you to work on. There is no need to wait. If you run across other wiki pages that aren't marked in these categories and should be, please add them. Remember, Categories are put at the bottom of a page.

[Wed Jun 18 00:19:37 2008] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i know there are a number of rather long pages that could really benefit from your input

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:01 2008] <Rocket2DMn> if you're interested, at least Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:05 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, Assign them to me somehow and I will work through them Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:17 2008] <hetirv> o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:31 2008] <alan_m> hetirv: question?

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:33 2008] <hetirv> What about removing Categories?

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:42 2008] <Rocket2DMn> we can use our own Beginners/Documentation page to assign pages to ourselves or to eachother if needed

[Wed Jun 18 00:20:47 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, I work best if given a list rather then a nebulous project ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:03 2008] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, +1 a to-do list is the way to go

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:07 2008] <Rocket2DMn> hetirv:

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:10 2008] <bodhi_zazen> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:17 2008] <Rocket2DMn> do you mean removing pages from certain categories?

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:34 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Feel free to assign me a page or pages if you come across them ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:50 2008] <hetirv> yeah, I like the page i just did, can I remove it (after someone looks at it)

[Wed Jun 18 00:21:58 2008] <hetirv> or is the a Doc Team thing

[Wed Jun 18 00:22:02 2008] <bodhi_zazen> save duplication of effort if you feel my input is needed

[Wed Jun 18 00:22:03 2008] <Rocket2DMn> sure we'll cover that in a minute hetirv

[Wed Jun 18 00:22:03 2008] <hetirv> that*

[Wed Jun 18 00:22:33 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Remember, you don't have to completely rewrite a page, if it needs significant work but you can only add a little, then add your .02 and keep it categorized for cleanup or expansion

[Wed Jun 18 00:22:47 2008] <alan_m> hetirv: I believe you can do that yourself, not sure.

[Wed Jun 18 00:23:18 2008] <limac> bye ppl...

[Wed Jun 18 00:23:28 2008] <Rocket2DMn> also, intra-wiki linking is key to not duplicating effort, i will touch on that in a few minutes

[Wed Jun 18 00:23:51 2008] <Rocket2DMn> but yes hetirv , anybody can remove pages from categories at any time

[Wed Jun 18 00:24:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> For the last two weeks some of us have been working with the doc-team to start the updating process. We have already begun to update a few pages, you can see links on our wiki homepages for links to pages that we have already updated.

[Wed Jun 18 00:24:37 2008] <Rocket2DMn> ...pardon my grammar there

[Wed Jun 18 00:24:57 2008] <Rocket2DMn> here's the part RE: linking between pages

[Wed Jun 18 00:24:57 2008] <bodhi_zazen> I would prefer members of the Beginner team to work through more experienced members where the wiki is concerned

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:14 2008] <bodhi_zazen> if you are unfamiliar with the wiki, please ask first ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:15 2008] <Rocket2DMn> +1 bodhi_zazen , that is also on my list of things to mention Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:29 2008] <alan_m> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:29 2008] <Rocket2DMn> On a side note, we also like to link between pages on the wiki (and sometimes outside sources). Esp. for pages that exist on the wiki, we don't want to duplicate work, so I suggest adding an extra section at the bottom of every page called "Other Resources" where you provide a list of intra-wiki links and a few outside sources that are useful and on topic. This helps keep pages short and to the point, without e

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:29 2008] <Rocket2DMn> xplaining related but not entirely on-topic ideas.

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:37 2008] <PrivateVoid> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Uncomplicated_Firewall_ufw -- FYI this effort took three hours it can be a long process to get things 'just right'

[Wed Jun 18 00:25:41 2008] <chanlog> Title: Uncomplicated Firewall ufw - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:26:16 2008] <bodhi_zazen> wiki tip ?

[Wed Jun 18 00:26:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> very nice PrivateVoid - guys, that is actually quite a bit of work for 3 hours of time.

[Wed Jun 18 00:26:41 2008] <Rocket2DMn> just an example of how tedious editing can be

[Wed Jun 18 00:26:49 2008] <PrivateVoid> I also had several people review it... before I finished... do not be ashamed to ask for help and review and do not take it personal if people suggest changes

[Wed Jun 18 00:26:57 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I don't want anybody to be delusioned

[Wed Jun 18 00:27:02 2008] <bodhi_zazen> I find it is much easier to write the basic content first, with wiki format in mind, then copy - paste rather then do the entire authoring on line

[Wed Jun 18 00:27:18 2008] <Rocket2DMn> +1 for that bodhi_zazen , gedit has been my friend

[Wed Jun 18 00:27:25 2008] <alan_m> If we suggest changes, its only to make it better guys, I/we arent trying to be rude and say it "sucks" or whatever...NOTHING here sucks...it just could use some work.

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:01 2008] <Rocket2DMn> exactly, it's a team effort

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:09 2008] <Rocket2DMn> let's keep moving

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:14 2008] <Rocket2DMn> On a side note, we also like to link between pages on the wiki (and sometimes outside sources). Esp. for pages that exist on the wiki, we don't want to duplicate work, so I suggest adding an extra section at the bottom of every page called "Other Resources" where you provide a list of intra-wiki links and a few outside sources that are useful and on topic. This helps keep pages short and to the point, without e

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:14 2008] <Rocket2DMn> xplaining related but not entirely on-topic ideas.

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:20 2008] <Rocket2DMn> i said that didnt i

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:25 2008] <hetirv> yesh

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:27 2008] <Rocket2DMn> ........

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:27 2008] <alan_m> yes

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:31 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Now, one of the biggest achievements so far has been implementing CategoryDeletion - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryDeletion - these are pages that we have marked to be removed from the wiki because they are extremely incomplete or work only on unsupported versions of Ubuntu.

[Wed Jun 18 00:28:39 2008] <chanlog> Title: CategoryDeletion - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:29:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> When you mark a page for deletion you should add CategoryDeletion to the bottom of the page, remove CategoryCleanup and CategoryNeedsExpansion if they are there, so as to remove them from those lists. Also, you must note at the top why the page is being marked for deletion. Something like this:

[Wed Jun 18 00:29:29 2008] <Rocket2DMn> This page has been marked for deletion - <list reasons here, keep it short>

[Wed Jun 18 00:30:00 2008] <Rocket2DMn> When marking pages for deletion, you also must check to see what other wiki pages link to that page. This can be achieved by clicking on the big bold title of the page. It will either list pages, take you directly to a page, or list nothing. If you are redirected to a page, that means that the redirect is the only page that has a link to the page you are going to mark for deletion.

[Wed Jun 18 00:30:43 2008] <Rocket2DMn> IMO, the system isn't perfect, but if you get that cleaned up, nobody will call you out on it or blame you if other pages turn out to have links

[Wed Jun 18 00:30:53 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:31:25 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yes, much of this is already on the official wiki editing documentation - pages that you should be reading

[Wed Jun 18 00:31:44 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Those of us already involved have already made our way through CategoryCleanup and CategoryNeedsExpansion and marked some pages for deletion that were previously in those categories. So these lists are, for the most part, ready to be worked on.

[Wed Jun 18 00:31:45 2008] <alan_m> Refreshment is always nice though Rocket2DMn

[Wed Jun 18 00:32:14 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yes alan_m , i am introducing you all to what is happening right now, but i cant spoon feed you this much information

[Wed Jun 18 00:32:39 2008] <bodhi_zazen> My idea was more to get additional team members involved

[Wed Jun 18 00:32:42 2008] <Rocket2DMn> this is also why it is important to ask questions when you start, that is why we have already scoped out the domain

[Wed Jun 18 00:32:51 2008] <bodhi_zazen> give 'em an outline or road map

[Wed Jun 18 00:33:11 2008] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, yes, this meeting will be put on the wiki and i will summarize it somewhere else

[Wed Jun 18 00:33:19 2008] <bodhi_zazen> \o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:33:28 2008] <Rocket2DMn> it is essentially already a summary

[Wed Jun 18 00:33:35 2008] <bodhi_zazen> I figured ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:33:55 2008] <bodhi_zazen> nice work

[Wed Jun 18 00:34:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler wanted me to point out "editmoin" which allows you to edit the wiki using a standard text editor - http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/editmoin

[Wed Jun 18 00:34:16 2008] <chanlog> Title: Ubuntu -- Details of package editmoin in hardy (at packages.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:34:38 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I have yet to use that myself, but it's there if you want it

[Wed Jun 18 00:34:59 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Questions RE: Categories or wiki editing?

[Wed Jun 18 00:35:35 2008] <Rocket2DMn> OK, moving on... we're almost finished

[Wed Jun 18 00:35:41 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Notes =

[Wed Jun 18 00:35:48 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I'm just gonna lay these out there

[Wed Jun 18 00:35:53 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Like I said earlier, the wiki is much slower paced than the forums, I do not expect and do not want you to go on massive editing sprees every day. You should really take the time do a page right, in which case it may take an hour for a very short page, or a few hours for medium sized pages. You should probably only do one page a day at most. If everybody completely updated/rewrote two or three pages per week,

[Wed Jun 18 00:35:54 2008] <Rocket2DMn> I would be more than happy.

[Wed Jun 18 00:36:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> and that's pushing it!

[Wed Jun 18 00:36:27 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Again, there are a bunch of links on our FG page that you can use as resources for help with editing the wiki.

[Wed Jun 18 00:36:44 2008] <Rocket2DMn> As was mentioned earlier as well, I recommend that as you first get involved with editing, you check your work with me, PrivateVoid, or Old_Soldier since we are already waist deep in this process and know what is going on.

[Wed Jun 18 00:36:54 2008] <bodhi_zazen> add links to resources if you find a gem please

[Wed Jun 18 00:36:59 2008] <Rocket2DMn> or any other members for that matter

[Wed Jun 18 00:37:08 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Questions =

[Wed Jun 18 00:37:11 2008] <Rocket2DMn> Does anybody have any questions regarding material we've covered or anything else? Please ask, now is the best time. You may also ask questions later as they come up, and I'm sure you will have some once you start editing.

[Wed Jun 18 00:37:36 2008] <alan_m> nope

[Wed Jun 18 00:37:43 2008] <alan_m> Team?

[Wed Jun 18 00:37:43 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Have you had any discussion re : what to do with the Beginner Team pages (w/ wiki team) ?

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:17 2008] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, ultimately those will be moved to wiki.ubuntu.com, but that's really at my convenience. I don't plan on getting around to that until after the majority of the community wiki is up to speed

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:26 2008] <Rocket2DMn> apparently we aren't the only team with our wiki pages in the wrong place

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:26 2008] <bodhi_zazen> 2. Would the team *please* look over the FAQ from the forums I started ?

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:38 2008] <bodhi_zazen> add something, anything, good place to start ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:53 2008] <Rocket2DMn> ah yes, RE: FAQ - also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions

[Wed Jun 18 00:38:57 2008] <chanlog> Title: CommonQuestions - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)

[Wed Jun 18 00:39:33 2008] <Rocket2DMn> that is their version of a FAQ. I suggested to the doc-team that they let the UF BT handle FAQ for now, since we are, obviously, on the forums

[Wed Jun 18 00:39:37 2008] <bodhi_zazen> I was trying to prepair a list of FAQ from the forums w/ answers ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:39:58 2008] <bodhi_zazen> or if not answers, a "to do" list for wiki team

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:05 2008] <PrivateVoid> I wonder if we could use a tool similar to the unanswered posts team --

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:17 2008] <Rocket2DMn> a tracker huh?

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:18 2008] <PrivateVoid> we could flag potential FAQ threads from the forums

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:20 2008] <PrivateVoid> yeah

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:34 2008] <Rocket2DMn> i think for now we should use the tools at our disposal, namely existing wiki pages

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:36 2008] <PrivateVoid> that way if one of us finds a question that we think needs to be added we can flag it

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:47 2008] <PrivateVoid> it would allow non-wiki editors to assist us as well

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:55 2008] <hetirv> could we put something in there that allow the flagger to point it at someone

[Wed Jun 18 00:40:56 2008] <PrivateVoid> perhaps work with the UA team.

[Wed Jun 18 00:41:11 2008] <Rocket2DMn> PrivateVoid, i think that is discussion for the mailing list

[Wed Jun 18 00:41:21 2008] <alan_m> Rocket2DMn: agreed

[Wed Jun 18 00:41:23 2008] <Rocket2DMn> they will likely throw the idea around then forget about it, but at least its there for now

[Wed Jun 18 00:41:40 2008] <hetirv> say for example if I think Rocket2DMn would do really good on a page I could point the flag at him

[Wed Jun 18 00:42:13 2008] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, i keep my own to do list for the wiki, i just put a bunch of links into a text file that i want to work on

[Wed Jun 18 00:42:35 2008] <Rocket2DMn> we can hammer out a system for assigning pages to people, we just have to remember that it is a community effort

[Wed Jun 18 00:42:49 2008] <bodhi_zazen> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:42:55 2008] <PrivateVoid> Rocket2DMn, um?

[Wed Jun 18 00:42:59 2008] <Rocket2DMn> it may just be easier to message a person with a link and ask if they are interested

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:05 2008] <bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, thank you, well done

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:10 2008] <alan_m> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:10 2008] <PrivateVoid> why would a tagger for the FAQ be a mailing list item?

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:30 2008] <Rocket2DMn> it blends with the wiki PrivateVoid

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:38 2008] <PrivateVoid> ok...

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:51 2008] <bodhi_zazen> o/

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:52 2008] <Rocket2DMn> right now, a whole separate application to just be shared between the few of us just isnt feasible

[Wed Jun 18 00:43:57 2008] <PrivateVoid> would it go beyond our current team then?

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:15 2008] <PrivateVoid> it is not a sep. application

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:15 2008] <Rocket2DMn> let's put the FAQ on hold guys, that is discussion for the full team meetings

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:24 2008] <PrivateVoid> it is simply a plugin for FF

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:32 2008] <PrivateVoid> the UA team uses one and it works well.

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:41 2008] <PrivateVoid> ok... sounds fair

[Wed Jun 18 00:44:44 2008] <Rocket2DMn> PrivateVoid, im afraid there is more to it than that, there is a whole set of PHP pages and a database involved

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:01 2008] <Rocket2DMn> i have copies myself, i was going to implement the system for the BT Smile :)

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:05 2008] <PrivateVoid> ok

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:21 2008] <Rocket2DMn> = Closing =

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:25 2008] <Rocket2DMn> OK, that be all, kids! Thank you for listening to me ramble on. We are very excited to get this Summer of Documentation rolling, it really is an epic undertaking. Don't forget to go register for the doc-team mailing list, send out an introduction, read those wiki pages, then apply for the DocuMENTORS team. All that info is linked from the FG page.

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:30 2008] <bodhi_zazen> One more comment ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:33 2008] <Rocket2DMn> go ahead

[Wed Jun 18 00:45:47 2008] <bodhi_zazen> for those members who do not want to actively wiki ...

[Wed Jun 18 00:46:09 2008] <bodhi_zazen> PLEASE REFER to WIKI pages when you answer questions on the forums

[Wed Jun 18 00:46:33 2008] <bodhi_zazen> raise the awareness of the wiki and the hard work that goes into it on the forums

[Wed Jun 18 00:46:52 2008] <alan_m> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:46:55 2008] <Rocket2DMn> indeed

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:12 2008] <Rocket2DMn> alrighty then

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:22 2008] <bodhi_zazen> It is easy to link to a wiki pate

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:23 2008] <bodhi_zazen> page

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:35 2008] <bodhi_zazen> [uwiki]Title[/uwiki]

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:47 2008] <Rocket2DMn> +1 news to me

[Wed Jun 18 00:47:55 2008] <alan_m> +1 same here rocket

[Wed Jun 18 00:48:03 2008] <hetirv> +1 same

[Wed Jun 18 00:48:08 2008] <PrivateVoid> +1

[Wed Jun 18 00:48:25 2008] <Rocket2DMn> With that, this meeting is officially over. Today's meeting minutes will be posted on the BT wiki later (when it becomes available again I guess...)

Prewritten Text

The following is text pre-written for the meeting by Rocket2DMn

Hello all, welcome to the first UF BT Wiki Focus Group meeting - the first FG meeting of any kind, I believe Smile :)

This meeting will be a little different than normal team meetings. I have a lot to say, so I will put it here a bit at a time, and feel free to stop me at any time to ask a question. Otherwise please keep the chatter to a minimum so we can finish quickly and not waste time.

I have formatted some of my text in this meeting to look good on the wiki, and to remind you of some wiki markup in the process.

Questions RE: the format of this meeting?


Topic 1: The Focus Group

The primary purpose of our FG is to help with the community documentation, which is the wiki area at https://help.ubuntu.com/community - NOT https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ (though we may draw from there on a regular basis for documentation help or importing pre-written documentation to the community wiki).

Most of the rest of this meeting will be geared toward getting you guys up to speed with working on the community wiki.

Questions RE: our purpose?

OK, moving on...

Topic 2: The Wiki

So as I mentioned before, the community wiki is at https://help.ubuntu.com/community

Right now, the wiki is really outdated and incomplete because of Ubuntu's rapid release cycle, so those of us here who have already started scoping out the territory (namely PrivateVoid, Old_Soldier, and me) have begun to call this the Summer of Documentation.

KEY: Our goal, for the time being, will be to get as much of the wiki cleaned out and up to date as possible this summer.

IMPORTANT: There are directions on our FG page to register with the doc-team mailing list, along with a bunch of wiki pages that you MUST READ, as in NOT OPTIONAL. These pages are crucial to working appropriately with the wiki. There are also a bunch of links to help teach you how to edit the wiki in the MoinMoin format. See Beginners/Team/FocusGroups/Wiki

Note that the ubuntu-doc IRC channel is here on Freenode at #ubuntu-doc - the channel is pretty dead, but I'm sure we can liven it up with relevant talk - do your daily chit chat in the BT channel, use the doc channel professionally.

On the topic of professionalism, it is of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE that you interact with the mailing list, ubuntu-doc IRC channel, and wiki itself using your best behavior, it is not as relaxed as the forums or the BT channel - please remember that the Ubuntu Code of Conduct applies at all times. Also remember that you represent the UF Beginners Team, and your actions and conduct reflect on your peers as well as yourself. I thank you in advance for this.

I trust that you all can handle that without problems, I don't expect it will be an issue for anybody here, it just needed to be said this once.

Now, before we proceed with the details, I really want to stress that the wiki really is more "official" than the forums, and much slower paced. When you edit pages, it will take quite awhile to do a single page. Pages must be done completely and formatted correctly. For your first page or two, you should run it by another team member when you are finished (like me, Old_Soldier, or PrivateVoid). Honest feedback is helpful feedback.

Questions RE: getting started or doc-team conduct?

OK, moving on...

Topic 3: Working with the Community Wiki

The MoinMoin format of the wiki allows us to categorize pages so they can easily be tracked from a central Category page. There are a number of these that will be crucial to getting the wiki up to date. See CategoryCategory for the complete list - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory

The first very useful Category is called CategoryCleanup - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup - this is used to mark pages that are outdated and need to be updated, are incorrectly formatted, or do not follow the standards of documentation. This category is huge and will take most of our time to clean up - many pages need major updates or complete rewrites.

The second is called CategoryNeedsExpansion - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryNeedsExpansion - this page is relatively small but the pages there require some serious work. It's self-explanatory.

For either of these two categories, if you specialize in a certain area or have good experience for one of the topics, then that page is perfect for you to work on. There is no need to wait. If you run across other wiki pages that aren't marked in these categories and should be, please add them. Remember, Categories are put at the bottom of a page.

For the last two weeks some of us have been working with the doc-team to start the updating process. We have already begun to update a few pages, you can see links on our wiki homepages for links to pages that we have already updated.

On a side note, we also like to link between pages on the wiki (and sometimes outside sources). Esp. for pages that exist on the wiki, we don't want to duplicate work, so I suggest adding an extra section at the bottom of every page called "Other Resources" where you provide a list of intra-wiki links and a few outside sources that are useful and on topic. This helps keep pages short and to the point, without explaining related but not entirely on-topic ideas.

Now, one of the biggest achievements so far has been implementing CategoryDeletion - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryDeletion - these are pages that we have marked to be removed from the wiki because they are extremely incomplete or work only on unsupported versions of Ubuntu.

When you mark a page for deletion you should add CategoryDeletion to the bottom of the page, remove CategoryCleanup and CategoryNeedsExpansion if they are there, so as to remove them from those lists. Also, you must note at the top why the page is being marked for deletion. Something like this:

This page has been marked for deletion - <list reasons here, keep it short>

When marking pages for deletion, you also must check to see what other wiki pages link to that page. This can be achieved by clicking on the big bold title of the page. It will either list pages, take you directly to a page, or list nothing. If you are redirected to a page, that means that the redirect is the only page that has a link to the page you are going to mark for deletion.

Those of us already involved have already made our way through CategoryCleanup and CategoryNeedsExpansion and marked some pages for deletion that were previously in those categories. So these lists are, for the most part, ready to be worked on.

Questions RE: Categories or wiki editing?

OK, moving on...

Notes

Like I said earlier, the wiki is much slower paced than the forums, I do not expect and do not want you to go on massive editing sprees every day. You should really take the time do a page right, in which case it may take an hour for a very short page, or a few hours for medium sized pages. You should probably only do one page a day at most. If everybody completely updated/rewrote two or three pages per week, I would be more than happy.

Again, there are a bunch of links on our FG page that you can use as resources for help with editing the wiki.

I recommend that as you first get involved with editing, you check your work with me, PrivateVoid, or Old_Soldier since we are already waist deep in this process and know what is going on.

Questions

Does anybody have any questions regarding material we've covered or anything else? Please ask, now is the best time. You may also ask questions later as they come up, and I'm sure you will have some once you start editing.

Closing

OK, that be all, kids! Thank you for listening to me ramble on. We are very excited to get this Summer of Documentation rolling, it really is an epic undertaking. Don't forget to go register for the doc-team mailing list, send out an introduction, read those wiki pages, then apply for the DocuMENTORS team. All that info is linked from the FG page.

With that, this meeting is officially over. Today's meeting minutes will be posted on the BT wiki later.


CategoryBeginnersTeam

BeginnersTeam/Meetings/WikiFG/20080617 (last edited 2008-09-13 18:49:40 by c-69-253-233-196)