Ubuntu Wiki

   1 [03:00] <pleia2> ok, meeting time!
   2 [03:00] <pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
   3 [03:00] <dragon> moi!
   4 [03:01] <eps> ☺
   5 [03:01] <aaditya> and me?
   6 [03:01] <akk> me
   7 [03:01] <pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24
   8 [03:02] <pleia2> is Ian Scott here? he added the first agenda item
   9 [03:02] <seidos> present
  10 [03:02] <pleia2> not sure what he had in mind for this item :) the big thing coming out with Natty is the new Unity interface
  11 [03:03] <pleia2> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
  12 [03:03] <pleia2> maybe we should come back to this one if he drops by
  13 [03:03] <pleia2> so... Release Parties!
  14 [03:03] <pleia2> we have a wiki page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease
  15 [03:04] <pleia2> so far the only thing on it is a San Francisco release party over at Thirsty Bear again
  16 [03:04] <pleia2> (I'll be sending out an announcement to the list momentarily
  17 [03:04] <pleia2> )
  18 [03:04] <eps> Is there any chance we can get the upstairs, or tables in the back?
  19 [03:04] <dragon> Would be nice to have one in south bay.
  20 [03:04] <dragon> MarkDude: ping?
  21 [03:04] <pleia2> eps: unfortunately not, upstairs was something like $45/person :(
  22 [03:05] <pleia2> $22 in food, $14 in drinks I think it was
  23 [03:05] <pleia2> so $36
  24 [03:05] <pleia2> but still too much!
  25 [03:05] <pleia2> I'll make clear in the announcement that it's an informal gathering though, rather than some structured event, just look for people in Ubuntu tshirts :)
  26 [03:05] <eps> Can we at least get a table near a power outlet?
  27 [03:06] <pleia2> we can ask, but I wouldn't recommend bringing a laptop, it's more of an eat, drink, be merry thing like the Lucid one was
  28 [03:06] <pleia2> if we want to plan a structured event where we do demos we should schedule a separate event
  29 [03:07] <pleia2> (and by "we" I mean the team, "not me" :))
  30 [03:08]  * MarkDude here- with distractions sry
  31 [03:08] <seidos> if you want a challenge, try finding the person wearing an ubuntu pen
  32 [03:09] <pleia2> dragon: maybe a south bay geeknic release party? :)
  33 [03:09] <MarkDude> The wifi now WORKS well at Saxbys- we can do there-
  34 [03:09] <MarkDude> lets do that park near LosGatos again
  35 [03:09] <dragon> geeknic + release party would be nice.
  36 [03:09] <dragon> yes MarkDude!
  37 [03:09] <dragon> I'm in.
  38 [03:09] <MarkDude> on a day they have that free music
  39 [03:09] <MarkDude> +1
  40 [03:10] <seidos> that reminds me, i need to keep working on my juggling
  41 [03:10] <pleia2> ok cool, other thoughts on release things?
  42 [03:12] <grantbow> sorry I'm late.
  43 [03:12] <dragon> welcome grantbow!
  44 [03:13]  * grantbow reads
  45 [03:14] <eps> What Narwhal paraphernalia do we have?
  46 [03:15] <pleia2> I have a stuffed animal narwhal
  47 [03:15] <grantbow> eps: what do you want to bring? :-)
  48 [03:16] <eps> grantbow: it's not going to be ready in time
  49 [03:16]  * sn9 has been too out of the loop lately
  50 [03:16] <pleia2> well, release is this upcoming Thursday, but anyone can host installfests and things after that, so keep it in mind in the coming weeks even if you can't organize something by next weekend
  51 [03:17] <grantbow> good overview of the release (I give talks from this web page) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
  52 [03:17] <sn9> oh wow, is it meeting night?
  53 [03:17] <grantbow> yup
  54 [03:18] <grantbow> Right, events can take place shortly after the release this Thursday.
  55 [03:18] <pleia2> ok, announcement for SF party sent out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001672.html
  56 [03:18] <grantbow> for some definition of shortly
  57 [03:18] <grantbow> pleia2: good work
  58 [03:18] <pleia2> grantbow: late :( but I've been overwhelmed today
  59 [03:19] <pleia2> ok, shall we move on to MarkDude's agenda item about the IRC link?
  60 [03:19] <grantbow> last minute agenda items - you are on MarkDude.
  61 [03:20] <pleia2> "Putting webchat link in Team header- to replace one of the the three links that points to IRC meeting page more info We have webchat links, they are located further with a few more clicks."
  62 [03:20] <pleia2> MarkDude: all yours!
  63 [03:21] <pleia2> my suggestion was to add a link to ubuntu-california.org/chat instead, since I hate when chat links go to web chats rather than just telling me what channel to join ;)
  64 [03:21] <MarkDude> Ok I think we should put a link to webchat
  65 [03:21] <seidos> grantbow: better late than never
  66 [03:21] <MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkTerranova/wiki_header#preview
  67 [03:22] <MarkDude> pleia2, we could do that for one of the other 2 links to irc meeting page
  68 [03:22] <grantbow> seidos: sometimes, last minute agenda items have been discussed in CA team meetings before.
  69 [03:22] <eps> The "IRC Channel" link should change
  70 [03:22] <pleia2> eps: yeah, that's what we're discussing
  71 [03:22] <pleia2> MarkDude: yeah, but I wouldn't click on that if I was looking for the IRC channel, I'd click on the IRC Channel link and then get annoyed that it went to a web chat
  72 [03:22] <akk> Can we have both? Like pleia2 I'd hate to be taken to a webchat link without warning -- but we should have them for people who need them.
  73 [03:22]  * MarkDude outlineed his thoughts on the wiki page, its only a wiki thing - and not a super serious issue :)
  74 [03:22] <grantbow> this isn't a big change IMHO
  75 [03:23] <eps> "Online Meetings" under "Get Involved" doesn't make sense given that there's a full-fledged column right next to it.
  76 [03:23] <pleia2> yeah, not a big change
  77 [03:23] <iheartubuntu> so you dont want it going direct to a webchat?
  78 [03:23] <MarkDude> Well to tell a newbie click on the webchat named link- would work on any page
  79 [03:23] <seidos> pleia2: but you wouldn't need the link in the first place, would you?
  80 [03:23] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: I'd rather it go to a page that says "here's the IRC channel name, here's the webchat link"
  81 [03:23] <iheartubuntu> or just clarifying thel ink
  82 [03:23] <grantbow> where's the diff? :)
  83 [03:23] <MarkDude> since it is in the header
  84 [03:23] <pleia2> akk: the question is how we'd fit it in that tiny menu :)
  85 [03:24] <pleia2> seidos: I would if I was new to the team
  86 [03:24] <seidos> why not make the link read "IRC: #ubuntu-us-ca" and when clicked, opens webchat
  87 [03:24] <pleia2> seidos: that could work
  88 [03:24] <eps> I'm OK with a level of indirection. I'm not a fan of webchat, except as a last resort.
  89 [03:24] <pleia2> seidos: actually, new people don't know what IRC means
  90 [03:24] <pleia2> :\
  91 [03:24] <MarkDude> if you click on the webchat link that has the channel name already, we reduce a few hoops
  92 [03:25] <iheartubuntu> MarkDude are you saying from your page we have too many links to the webchat and to consolidate them?
  93 [03:25] <pleia2> "IRC Channel" as it is named now is probably a poor name
  94 [03:25] <MarkDude> webchat makes assumptive sense
  95 [03:25] <pleia2> "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" perhaps?
  96 [03:25] <sn9> "chatroom"
  97 [03:25] <MarkDude> sure :)
  98 [03:25] <iheartubuntu> many newbies dont even know what IRC stands for
  99 [03:25] <dragon> pleia2: +1, that's what I was thinking.
 100 [03:25] <MarkDude> chatroom sounds scary sn9
 101 [03:25] <seidos> then say Channel: #ubuntu-us-ca
 102 [03:25] <MarkDude> pleia2, +1
 103 [03:25] <pleia2> seidos: people don't know what a Channel is either :)
 104 [03:25] <eps> Newbies have enough trouble with the concept of online meetings.
 105 [03:26] <pleia2> it's a think you tune on your TV, right?
 106 [03:26] <MarkDude> webchat word help bridge it, imho
 107 [03:26] <iheartubuntu> + for pleia2
 108 [03:26] <seidos> pleia2: under contact us it says "IRC Channel"
 109 [03:26] <dragon> also, on the following page, the text "javascript webchat client" doesn't really make sense.
 110 [03:26] <pleia2> seidos: yeah, that's the wording we're trying to fix
 111 [03:26] <dragon> Not everyone knows the meaning and implications of "Javascript".
 112 [03:26] <sn9> whenever i explain what irc is i get "so, it's a chatroom?"
 113 [03:26] <seidos> pleia2: at one point people didn't know what "email" meant either
 114 [03:26] <pleia2> so, "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca
 115 [03:26] <MarkDude> dragon, minus that it causes their browser to crash :D
 116 [03:27] <MarkDude> that works for me
 117 [03:27] <dragon> lol.
 118 [03:27] <grantbow> is our wiki for us or the public or both?
 119 [03:27] <dragon> pleia2: even better to embed the chatroom in a wiki page, if possible.
 120 [03:27] <pleia2> grantbow: both
 121 [03:27] <pleia2> dragon: not possible
 122 [03:27] <MarkDude> And will make it less frustrating for when folks are at conferences that dont agree with some chat clients
 123 [03:28] <eps> Is there an https: page we can link to?
 124 [03:28] <dragon> ah okay. Link works then.
 125 [03:28] <MarkDude> dragon, Oregon did that with a hello icon- sounded good
 126 [03:28] <MarkDude> a few folks felt talked down to needing to click on a picture
 127 [03:28] <MarkDude> too easy can feel like a pat on the head :)
 128 [03:29] <grantbow> depends on your assumptions about the audience
 129 [03:29] <grantbow> vs. actuals
 130 [03:29] <pleia2> well, I think this is a pretty simple change and we link to our Meetings page enough, any major objections?
 131 [03:29] <iheartubuntu> I like pleia2 example of "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca "
 132 [03:29] <pleia2> thanks for bringing this up MarkDude, it's a good change :)
 133 [03:30] <nhaines> I think we need to make sure the wording is very distinct between an explanation page and a direct webclient.
 134 [03:30] <pleia2> we have a very small space to use
 135 [03:30] <MarkDude> np
 136 [03:31] <MarkDude> nhaines, is correct - it appears some fine tuning on wording could be used
 137 [03:31] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom for instance links directly without mentioning channel
 138 [03:31] <pleia2> and that's a pretty common example
 139 [03:31] <MarkDude> on the irc page- if another link for sumthin is needed- we have it :)
 140 [03:32] <pleia2> so even with the "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" I was trying to be a bit more explicit than some :)
 141 [03:32] <iheartubuntu> we could have the link go to a landing page describing what the chat is about, upcoming meetings, and then the link to the direct chat
 142 [03:32] <grantbow> nhaines: what do you think is needed?
 143 [03:32] <iheartubuntu> what about "live webchat"
 144 [03:32] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: I think that's what Mark is trying to avoid, lots of clicks to get to chat
 145 [03:32] <iheartubuntu> instead of irc channel
 146 [03:33] <nhaines> grantbow: a compelling reason to change the menus, to start.
 147 [03:33] <iheartubuntu> how about live webchat then
 148 [03:33] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: then where do we put #ubuntu-us-ca for experienced users? another line?
 149 [03:33] <iheartubuntu> if its LIVE people should get the intention
 150 [03:33] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, we have a link to it on the irc page I believe
 151 [03:33] <pleia2> nhaines: currently "IRC Channel" links to our Meetings page, which is incorrect, I think that's a compelling reason
 152 [03:34] <iheartubuntu> its still not technically live yet until they key in a nickname and the captha
 153 [03:34] <MarkDude> we can have two paths or more to get there-
 154 [03:34] <iheartubuntu> "live webchat #ubuntu-us-ca"
 155 [03:34] <pleia2> we do much much more than meetings here (in fact, most of our everything is done here, we're a very chat-heavy team)
 156 [03:34] <nhaines> pleia2: it's a compelling reason to have a page describing the channel, perhaps.
 157 [03:35] <pleia2> yeah, which is why at the beginning of this I suggested just linking to ubuntu-california.org/chat
 158 [03:35] <nhaines> Especially if there are more than one.
 159 [03:35] <pleia2> yeah, we do have the -offtopic channel that isn't actually mentioned anywhere but the /topic here
 160 [03:36] <sn9> that should be on the wiki
 161 [03:36] <grantbow> sn9: where do you recommend it be put?
 162 [03:36] <iheartubuntu> at the top of this chat is pretty good already IMO
 163 [03:37] <iheartubuntu> when one enters this chat, everything very clear. webpage, next meeting, the chat is logged, and that we have an unlogged room too
 164 [03:38] <sn9> grantbow: anywhere is better than nowhere
 165 [03:39] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: are you saying that this information should only be available if someone is able to connect to IRC?
 166 [03:39] <pleia2> MarkDude: is your objection that it takes several clicks to get to webchat? would wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/IRC page that we link to in the menu with links to webchat and both channels be sufficient?
 167 [03:39] <eps> iheartubuntu: yes, very clear. Very clear text. Not good for using registered nicks.
 168 [03:39] <pleia2> that would also give us the opportunity to explain what it is
 169 [03:39] <iheartubuntu> it would make sense to also be on a landing page as i mentioned earlier, before someone enters a chat
 170 [03:39] <seidos> additional information could be included in the general "contact us" link
 171 [03:39] <MarkDude> Not really, IMHO
 172 [03:39] <MarkDude> But I dont feel the need to argue it
 173 [03:40] <MarkDude> one less click is good
 174 [03:40] <MarkDude> Just like folks not needing to create a LP acct 1st
 175 [03:40] <seidos> an additional click is fine if there utility to it
 176 [03:40] <seidos> *there's
 177 [03:40] <pleia2> ok, well I think we can agree that at least clarification is needed (not link to Meetings), just where to link and wording
 178 [03:40] <nhaines> MarkDude: no one needs to create an LP account before joining the chat.  That doesn't make any sense.
 179 [03:40] <iheartubuntu> im jsut trying to think of myself as a new user coming here... id appreciate a landing page describing the webchat and info about it before entering
 180 [03:40] <MarkDude> we have 3 links that go to the same place in the header- we would not lose anything at all
 181 [03:41] <eps> +2
 182 [03:41] <pleia2> MarkDude: mind if I brainstorm a little this week and you can let me know what you think?
 183 [03:41] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, as I have done with other people - when sending them to a channel
 184 [03:41] <MarkDude> webchat direct links they can use on Windows , apple, or Linux are helpful
 185 [03:41] <seidos> perhaps creating a page on the ubuntucalifornia site with embedded chat that includes a description?
 186 [03:41] <MarkDude> Sure only 3 people at most
 187 [03:42] <pleia2> seidos: ubuntu-california.org/chat just lacks embedded
 188 [03:42] <pleia2> we could do that
 189 [03:42] <pleia2> I'll do that as a test this week and see what people think
 190 [03:42] <nhaines> Can we make sure we don't just dump people into a logged, permanently archived and searchable channel without their prior consent?
 191 [03:42] <seidos> i'm not sure the best way to embed webchat on ubuntu-california.org/chat
 192 [03:42] <seidos> does anyone?
 193 [03:43]  * MarkDude leaves- the L word was said
 194 [03:43] <iheartubuntu> nhaines - logging into webchat.freenode you need to type in any nick and also a phrase to enter
 195 [03:43] <pleia2> seidos: yes, it's easy
 196 [03:43] <iheartubuntu> webchat.freenode describes how to embed the chat into a page
 197 [03:43] <pleia2> ok, well Mark left and that was his agenda item so we should probably wrap up and revisit when we have some ideas together
 198 [03:43] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: is the embedded chat going to use webchat.freenode?
 199 [03:43] <iheartubuntu> i would think so
 200 [03:43] <pleia2> yep
 201 [03:44] <grantbow> MarkDude: for the log - uh, what? You put this on the agenda.
 202 [03:44] <iheartubuntu> its the easiest... but it has bugs when using chrome
 203 [03:44] <iheartubuntu> nothing major
 204 [03:44] <seidos> iheartubuntu: sweet
 205 [03:44] <pleia2> ok, so let's move on, that's the last agenda item, but anything else?
 206 [03:44] <pleia2> Announcements? Questions? Etc?
 207 [03:45] <nhaines> pleia2: I would like to request natty CDs this cycle.
 208 [03:46] <iheartubuntu> announcement... pasadena ubuntu hour was a big success. 8 peopel showed up. siedos was there also jbermudes
 209 [03:46] <pleia2> nhaines: sure thing! I'll email the list when I get them in and keep details about how many we have remaining on the wiki just like with Maverick
 210 [03:46] <pleia2> I sent the team request a few weeks back
 211 [03:46] <iheartubuntu> richard who spoke at ubucon was there as well
 212 [03:46] <grantbow> pleia2: +1
 213 [03:46] <nhaines> pleia2: excellent.  I'd like to get a set for OCLUG as well, but I'll do details later.  What's the best way to request them?
 214 [03:46] <pleia2> yep, april 7th https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001658.html
 215 [03:47] <pleia2> nhaines: just email me how many you need and I'll get them shipped out
 216 [03:47] <pleia2> locals here tend to donate for shipping across the state, so I don't generally have to pay much out of pocket
 217 [03:47] <nhaines> pleia2: I'm happy to cover shipping.  We'll work that out in email too.  :)
 218 [03:47] <pleia2> nhaines: sounds good!
 219 [03:48] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: that rocks re: pasadena hour!
 220 [03:48] <iheartubuntu> for those wanting to do ubuntu hours, it really attracts people to have a UH on the same day as a LUG
 221 [03:48] <pleia2> our SF hour had 5 people, but we did bump into a project manager in the shop who said she uses ubuntu too :) and that's what it's all about, good times
 222 [03:49] <pleia2> yeah, ubuntu hour + debian dinner works out great for us every few months
 223 [03:49] <iheartubuntu> any advice would be appreciated on doing a regular quarterly shipment from ubuntu store. best timeframe to order based on store sales and ubuntu release dates
 224 [03:50] <nhaines> OCLUG is planning a weeknight meeting to test attendance and is planning it around Ubuntu Hour in Lake Forest so they don't overlap.  I thought that was really thoughtful.
 225 [03:50] <nhaines> (They're planning it to be on the alternate week to avoid overlaps.)
 226 [03:50] <pleia2> ah, that's nice of them
 227 [03:51] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: that's a good question, I'm not sure, I think their release of merchandise can be a bit random :\
 228 [03:51] <nhaines> Usually they dump merchandise just before the new cycle.  I was shocked to see natty shirts last week.  Usually it's really two weeks after launch before they get stuff in.
 229 [03:52] <iheartubuntu> i had 4 people order when i placed the order... might work better if i didnt order right before a major release as nhaines advised
 230 [03:52] <pleia2> ok, we can probably wrap things up now (and I need to go make dinner)
 231 [03:52] <pleia2> thanks everyone :)