Meeting 2008 Mar 9th

• Meeting Topic - The Ubuntu Classroom Wiki

Team Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
Meeting Minutes by: Trevor Sharpe

Present

The following were present during this meeting:

• Ryanakca
• Zelut
• Heartsbane
• Ross Peoples
• pleia2
• dantalizing

Proceedings

• Meeting called to order at 2:00PM EST (GMT -0500), by Christer Edwards(Zelut)

• No Meeting Agenda was submitted
• It was decided to discuss a new wiki layout
  • Introduction, Schedule, Classroom-info, Transcripts, Volunteering
• Agreed to table discussion of Classroom Guidelines until next meeting

  • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines

    • review of sections 1.1.3 and 1.2.1 definitely needed
• review of new member applications in Launchpad to the Ubuntu Classroom team
  • agreed to place a hold on herlo
• Follow up with invitation to USTeams about presenting for Ubuntu-Classroom
  • debate on future presenters
    • weekly themes are easier to market
    • or, filling with anyone willing to present, to fulfill education and not exclude smaller teams
• Follow up meeting date/time was established

• Meeting called to end at 3:04PM EST (GMT -0500), by Ryan Kavanagh(ryanakca)

Agenda

NO Agenda was submitted

Additional

• no other note worthy items

Discussion

The following is the discussion that took place in gobby. Times are MDT (GMT -0700):

[12:00:55 PM] <zelut> good to see you this time ryanakca
[12:01:16 PM] <heartsbane> Sorry Ryan I was in another window
[12:01:39 PM] <zelut> do we not have an updated agenda for this meeting?
[12:01:48 PM] <heartsbane> No
[12:02:07 PM] <zelut> ok then.
[12:02:23 PM] <zelut> does anyone have anything to report based on last weeks assignments?  wiki guys?
[12:03:13 PM] <heartsbane> Ya I have made some adjustements based upon your suggestions 
[12:03:28 PM] <heartsbane> for a new Wiki 2.0 layout
[12:03:34 PM] <zelut> I took a look at the classroom-new, is that your sandbox?
[12:03:43 PM] <heartsbane> Um let me get you the link
[12:03:53 PM] <heartsbane> yes I was about to post that
[12:04:20 PM] <heartsbane> I was going to see if I get James to help with some artwork
[12:04:24 PM] <zelut> the new header style looks nice (starting to see that throughout the wiki lately)
[12:04:50 PM] <zelut> I guess I'm wondering, and ryanakca is the one to ask here, on what we could/should change on the content.
[12:04:53 PM] <heartsbane> yes lot of includes I have an idea of where to head
[12:05:02 PM] <heartsbane> I have never had to use a include
[12:05:29 PM] dantalizing_ has joined
[12:05:30 PM] <zelut> I don't want to remove get rid of the old stuff out of respect, but some of those users are no longer involved.
[12:05:38 PM] <zelut> what is it, do you think, we can change in that regard.
[12:06:04 PM] <heartsbane> for those of you that are wondering what we are looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom-New
[12:07:03 PM] <zelut> heartsbane: were you able to look at editmoin? I think it might help with all the wiki work.. 
[12:07:16 PM]  * heartsbane wonders if ryancakca is paying attention.
[12:07:33 PM] <heartsbane> Yes I looked at editmoin, hats off to nixternal for that
[12:07:41 PM] <heartsbane> I like it and I don't like it
[12:07:56 PM] <heartsbane> no preview, is a drawback
[12:08:06 PM] zelut has created a new document: classroom-new
[12:08:11 PM] <heartsbane> vim is a major plus
[12:08:21 PM] <zelut> I've pasted in the classroom-new wiki into the new document
[12:08:25 PM]  * ryanakca back
[12:08:46 PM] <heartsbane> k
[12:08:47 PM] <zelut> I think we could discuss how we can update the content
[12:08:50 PM] <ryanakca> sorry, I left because its only 18:08UTC and I thought the meeting was at 19:00UTC  :) 
[12:09:05 PM] <heartsbane> sokay
[12:09:17 PM] <zelut> ryanakca: I'm sure daylight savings is going to screw up a lot of meetings this week  :) 
[12:09:23 PM] <ryanakca> lol  :) 
[12:09:48 PM]  * ryanakca opens up Classroom-New
[12:09:50 PM] dantalizing_ has left
[12:09:51 PM] <heartsbane> Zelut so your question is what from the old wiki do we want to salvage
[12:10:12 PM] <zelut> right. what do we want to keep, and what should we update.
[12:10:16 PM]  * ryanakca recommends salvaging ClassroomGuidelines
[12:10:31 PM] <ryanakca> you'll probably want to update them.
[12:10:43 PM] <zelut> I'm looking at the Introduction section, which seems mostly outdated.
[12:10:44 PM] <heartsbane> in what regard?
[12:10:54 PM] <heartsbane> on classroom guidelines
[12:10:57 PM] <heartsbane> sorry
[12:11:39 PM] <zelut> should we start at the top and go down?
[12:12:01 PM] <ryanakca> Yes. Now, before we go through guidelines... has anybody here heard/used Mootbot?
[12:12:27 PM] <heartsbane> ryan is that like blootbot
[12:12:32 PM] <zelut> heard of it
[12:12:36 PM] <zelut> too many bot styles  :) 
[12:12:40 PM] <heartsbane> ya
[12:12:52 PM] dantalizing has joined
[12:13:04 PM] <ryanakca> heartsbane: No, it produces transcripts in wiki or HTML form from meetings. It idles in #ubuntu-meeting iirc
[12:13:22 PM] <heartsbane> oh didn't know that
[12:13:39 PM] <ryanakca> Anyways, I'm currently modifying it to apply to the classroom, and it should take care of most of the points in Guidelines
[12:13:45 PM] <heartsbane> k
[12:14:14 PM] <ryanakca> well, 1.1.3 and 1.2.1
[12:14:24 PM] <ryanakca> Anyways, moving on, Guidelines  ;) 
[12:14:26 PM] <zelut> ok
[12:14:55 PM] <heartsbane> cool, lets review the frontpage, or guidelines?
[12:15:07 PM] <ryanakca> either or. 
[12:15:16 PM] <heartsbane> which one? I suggest frontpage for Classroom
[12:15:30 PM] <ryanakca> okies
[12:15:38 PM] <zelut> frontpage
[12:15:50 PM] <heartsbane> start around the introduction
[12:16:01 PM] <heartsbane> how much of that in relevant anymore?
[12:16:21 PM] <zelut> I'd say Ryan and Liz are still involved, but nobody else?
[12:16:23 PM] <ryanakca> Well, the "is a project managed... cooperation with UW".
[12:16:36 PM] <ryanakca> Does Ubuntu Women still want to cooperate, or did they give up on us?
[12:16:56 PM] <heartsbane> Are Marek Spruel and and Richard Johnson still involved?
[12:17:01 PM] <zelut> they've been non-existant as far as I'm concerned 
[12:17:08 PM] <heartsbane> I think they gave up
[12:17:10 PM] <ryanakca> as for nalioth and nixternal, don't know if they're still interested. I think nixternal dropped by last week
[12:17:14 PM] <zelut> Richard (nixternal) stopped by last week, but I think he's busy.
[12:17:42 PM] <heartsbane> if they want back in ... I am sure that UW will contact us
[12:17:48 PM] <ryanakca> ok
[12:18:07 PM] <ryanakca> So, scrap that line and rewrite it as you want if you want
[12:18:11 PM] <zelut> so that can be updated then to list the new contributors?
[12:18:14 PM] <heartsbane> so what should it read....
[12:18:54 PM] <ryanakca> Up to you... who are the active "revivors"... is the list too long to put in that line?
[12:19:22 PM] <heartsbane> You know on the header... I might just want to include membership
[12:19:26 PM] <heartsbane> or management
[12:19:36 PM] <ryanakca> point it to the ~ubuntu-classroom team on LP?
[12:19:44 PM] <heartsbane> yes
[12:19:47 PM] <ryanakca> Ok.
[12:20:00 PM] <ryanakca> Should I disable everybody with a message of reapplying if they're still interested?
[12:20:08 PM] <zelut> I'd say list ryan, liz, me, trevor and ross.. and whoever else shows up to meetings.
[12:20:21 PM] <ryanakca> (basically, the current members are those listed there, + popey iirc)
[12:20:52 PM] <zelut> that sounds about right.
[12:21:02 PM] <ryanakca> We also had tonyyarusso
[12:21:11 PM] <ryanakca> And Mez
[12:21:11 PM] <dantalizing> i'd like to help out, just dont know where yet
[12:21:47 PM] <ryanakca> or, trevor, ross, your usernames?
[12:21:52 PM] <ryanakca> s/or/ok/g
[12:22:30 PM] <ryanakca> Originally the team had been for the main coordinators/contact people...
[12:22:46 PM] heartsbane has left
[12:23:07 PM] heartsbane has joined
[12:23:36 PM] <heartsbane> sorry gobby kinda stopped responding
[12:23:39 PM] <zelut> does introduction better reflect what we've discussed recently then?
[12:24:16 PM] <ryanakca> heartsbane: LP name?
[12:24:26 PM] <heartsbane> Trevor Sharpe
[12:25:06 PM] <ryanakca> Anybody know who Clint Savage or visualdeception are? Leave them on "Hold"?
[12:25:08 PM] <heartsbane> Zelut yes it does
[12:25:31 PM] <zelut> clint is a fedora community guy who is interested in cooperation
[12:25:38 PM] <heartsbane> Visualdeception is Seth who is absent
[12:25:47 PM] <ryanakca> ok, so approve both or?
[12:25:55 PM] <heartsbane> your basic fedora clown
[12:26:01 PM] <zelut> he is somewhat involved, but primarily to see how this project can benefit the fedora croud.
[12:26:05 PM] <zelut> *crowd
[12:26:18 PM] <ryanakca> ok. I'll leave him on hold for now
[12:26:29 PM] <ryanakca> And I guess seth can be approved
[12:26:57 PM] <ryanakca> Zelut: What page did you update the into on?
[12:27:07 PM] <zelut> classroom-new
[12:27:12 PM] <heartsbane> classroom-new
[12:27:18 PM] <heartsbane> I think it reads fine
[12:27:26 PM] <zelut> down to schedule.. 
[12:27:43 PM] <zelut> I think we had decided, for starters, to have one presentation per month and that we would invite teams to present.  Is that accurate?
[12:27:50 PM] <heartsbane> and I struck the first sentence, and we are going move the to redirection to the LP 
[12:28:04 PM] <heartsbane> Zelut it is correct
[12:28:24 PM] <ryanakca> okies, s/bi-weekly/monthly/g in the intro
[12:28:34 PM] <zelut> ryanakca: does that souwe don't bite off more than we can chew starting out.
[12:31:32 PM] <ryanakca> Hmm... Our biggest issue has always been promotion/advertising. We started out great, publicity everywhere, but then people started complaining about people joining -classroom or -nun instead of #ubuntu for support (or something like that), so marketting stopped, attendance dropped, etc.
[12:31:50 PM] <zelut> I have contacted US Teams about presenters but I have nothing back solid yet.
[12:32:08 PM] <zelut> I've also contacted the Desktop Team with preliminary pleasantries  ;) 
[12:32:12 PM] <pleia2> zelut: who have you contacted and how? you never talked to me :P
[12:32:30 PM] <ryanakca> I might be able to get someone from Kubuntu Devel for a KDE or PyQt4 presentation...
[12:32:35 PM] <heartsbane> ryan you would be surprised how many *do not* read /topic of the channel
[12:33:10 PM] <zelut> pleia2: I contacted Aaron as he seems to be the final remaining core-mentor-type
[12:33:13 PM] <heartsbane> So the section I guess we should be looking at is schedule
[12:33:40 PM] <pleia2> zelut: oh dear, it seems I should be more vocal about my mentoring then, I just started working with NH this week... and have been mentoring all along
[12:34:02 PM] <zelut> pleia2: I thought it'd be good to let him contact teams and get volunteers, considering US Teams needs visible unified leadership I wanted it to come from one place.
[12:34:10 PM] <pleia2> k
[12:34:19 PM] <zelut> pleia2: I'm aware you and many others are still mentoring, I just wanted it to go through the proper channels is all.
[12:34:36 PM] <pleia2> ok, that's why I asked
[12:34:44 PM] <pleia2> I'll poke Aaron about it then
[12:34:50 PM] <zelut> so we're still waiting on him.. which sucks because we only have a week.
[12:35:26 PM] <heartsbane> ARG.. so the question is should we include the third week in march on the schedule
[12:35:51 PM] <zelut> so can the schedule be re-written to mostly show the upcoming schedule with a quick blurb about 'if your team wants to present please contact X'?
[12:36:08 PM] <pleia2> sounds good That sounds fine ....... good question
[12:36:44 PM] <pleia2> well, having an updated schedule *at all* would help  :) 
[12:36:48 PM] <ryanakca> lol
[12:37:15 PM] <ryanakca> Anybody here know Tcl?
[12:37:46 PM] <heartsbane> Liz Ryan I will archive that schedule, no I don't know TCL
[12:37:58 PM] <ryanakca> okies
[12:38:01 PM] <pleia2> thanks
[12:38:09 PM] <zelut> had we decided on the third week in april too? will that match up with hardy release at all?
[12:38:23 PM] <pleia2> put it in Classroom/2007 ?
[12:38:40 PM] <ryanakca> Sure
[12:38:42 PM] <heartsbane> Zelut, I thought we pretty much decided to contact the Desktop Team
[12:38:54 PM] <heartsbane> to capture more of the average user
[12:38:58 PM]  * ryanakca is poking around in #kubuntu-devel at the moment
[12:39:10 PM] <ryanakca> Third week in april might be interesting... When's open week?
[12:39:16 PM] <zelut> that is 'in progress'
[12:39:20 PM] <zelut> don't know
[12:40:04 PM] <heartsbane> Openweek was more like June, is what I remember being discusssed
[12:40:25 PM] <ryanakca> OK
[12:40:26 PM] <zelut> I thought it was always just before / after UDS
[12:41:11 PM] <zelut> I'm also going to say that if I don't hear back from Aaron on firm presenters by like tues we're going to have to scrap next week.
[12:41:17 PM] <pleia2> heartsbane: when you archive those, might put a link to the Gutsy open week too
[12:41:28 PM] <heartsbane> roger that
[12:41:31 PM] <ryanakca> okie
[12:42:35 PM] dantalizing has left
[12:42:41 PM] <heartsbane> I am also going to stick all the Classroom Team Meeting notes on a seperate tab at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom-New
[12:42:51 PM] <ryanakca> OK
[12:43:21 PM] <heartsbane> if the people want them they can click, lets not let it clutter up the main page
[12:46:01 PM] <heartsbane> Zelut: if we don't get Aaron Toponce and US/Teams this week the decision is scrap, we have no fallback?
[12:46:20 PM] <ryanakca> Hmm... Jussi just suggested a class on effective "helping" for #(k/x)ubuntu...
[12:46:24 PM] <zelut> not unless we pull something together very fast.
[12:46:36 PM] <ryanakca> That could probably be pulled tod/23rd?
[12:47:54 PM] <ryanakca> Next weekend I probably can. Two weeks from today, I'm gone skiing
[12:47:59 PM] <zelut> i had it as next week
[12:48:07 PM] <zelut> 16-22
[12:48:26 PM] <ryanakca> 14:48:04 < nixternal> hey, I wouldn't mind doing either a PyQt4 or Qt4/C++ intro
[12:48:30 PM] <ryanakca> Or there's that
[12:48:37 PM] <ryanakca> 14:48:19 < nixternal> I have enough books here and the basic knowledge to give such a course
[12:48:43 PM] <zelut> can we make it a week long event though?
[12:48:59 PM] <ryanakca> What? the class?
[12:49:01 PM] <zelut> we discussed last week a minimun of three, one-hour presentations.
[12:49:18 PM] <zelut> so its more like a week event vs a quick one-hour thing once a month
[12:49:32 PM] <ryanakca> Oh, wow. I was still under the impression that it was a one hour to two hour thing on a Saturday or Sunday
[12:49:33 PM] <zelut> mon-wed-fri style
[12:49:56 PM] <zelut> i'm thinking like openweek, everyweek
[12:50:05 PM] <zelut> ...of course we'll have to build up to that point
[12:50:37 PM] <ryanakca> Umm... Would be kinda hard to do three hours of how to help, or PyQt4 / Qt4/C++.
[12:51:01 PM] <pleia2> do all three have to be related?
[12:51:04 PM] <heartsbane> Even with Q & A?
[12:51:29 PM] <zelut> that's why I've envisioned presentations done by teams. there can be many facets to a teams responsibilities, and those can generate multiple presentations.
[12:51:36 PM] <heartsbane> pleia2: probably not, but I think that would preferred
[12:51:49 PM] <pleia2> ah, 3 hour long presentations in a week is a lot to ask any team
[12:52:05 PM] <ryanakca> Yeah. The PyQt4 course Riddell taught a few months ago lasted two hours with Q&A and multiple interruptions
[12:52:13 PM] <zelut> nah, we did it last fall with us teams education week & the bug team remember.
[12:52:20 PM]  * ryanakca seconds pleia2
[12:52:22 PM] <zelut> motu did like 5hrs a day just last month
[12:52:40 PM] <pleia2> big teams like motu and bugs can do it
[12:52:42 PM] <ryanakca> Hmm... Well, if you can get teams to teach and people to attend, I won't 
[12:53:15 PM] <pleia2> but a lot of teams are smaller, and I wouldn't want to exclude them just because they can't spare preparing 3 hours of material
[12:53:29 PM] <zelut> I just think a once-a-month, one-hour presentation is not a lot to get much hype for.
[12:53:38 PM] <zelut> whereas ubunut developer week was a big stinking event
[12:54:07 PM] <pleia2> right, so perhaps consider unrelated events?
[12:54:34 PM] <zelut> at least somewhat related I'd hope.. 
[12:54:35 PM] <pleia2> so one class from kubuntu-devel, one class from US teams, one class from... helping on irc
[12:55:05 PM] <zelut> if they don't have some kind of focus or theme it might be harder to market.
[12:55:17 PM] <pleia2> ah 
[12:55:26 PM] <ryanakca> Helping on IRC... nalioth might be interested, since he was one of the leaders/etc of the NUN
[12:56:08 PM] <ryanakca> 14:54:56 < Mez> again? well, if you want me still in, you know i'm there. I've been waiting to hear from you about the last time though
[12:56:09 PM] <ryanakca> lol
[12:56:55 PM]  * ryanakca has invited him over
[12:57:34 PM] <heartsbane> So it sounds like we don't have a consensus on how to schedule a week of Classroom
[12:57:46 PM] <ryanakca> Hmm..
[12:57:46 PM] <heartsbane> Team based or just presenter based?
[12:57:48 PM] <zelut> if we did one on helping in IRC we could have topics like 'basic IRC use (identify, creating accounts, etc)', 'main help channels and guidelines'
[12:58:14 PM] <ryanakca> Zelut: I'm sure nixternal wouldn't mind reteaching his course on Konversation...
[12:58:24 PM] <zelut> just trying to think of multiple topics related to one issue so we can stretch it out.
[12:58:42 PM] <zelut> the more we have on one topic the more we can push it as a big event.  learn everything in the world about IRC  :) 
[12:58:51 PM] <ryanakca> Main help channels and guidelines, we might be able to get someone from the IRC team to help out
[12:59:29 PM] <ryanakca> But, that aside, have we dwith nick/chanserv, #ubuntu/kubuntu, etc, irc tools (pastebin, etc)...
[01:00:05 PM] <zelut> even different popular irc clients and how to configure
[01:00:19 PM] <ryanakca> What we used to do was have the class twice, spaced out by 10-11 hours so that we could reach the most amount of people possible.
[01:00:42 PM] <zelut> that is a good idea too, assuming the presenter(s) can accomodate.
[01:00:56 PM] <ryanakca> I'm guessing we'll only have the course once for now, and then down the road increase it to twice
[01:01:34 PM] <zelut> again, I'd like to try and make it a bigger feel--like OpenWeek--as best we can.
[01:01:53 PM] <zelut> could be multiple topics, but focus on one per day.
[01:02:33 PM] <zelut> that also helps.. if they can't attend on sat we have 'em mon - fri.  they can at least attend something.
[01:02:38 PM] Ross Peoples has left
[01:02:47 PM] <ryanakca> I'm for starting small and growing. That way we don't get in over our heads.
[01:02:56 PM] <zelut> looks like its about end-of-meeting time too.
[01:03:17 PM] <ryanakca> OK. So are we having the courses next week or not?
[01:03:27 PM] <zelut> I don't think we have firm presenters.. ?
[01:03:32 PM] <ryanakca> Ok
[01:03:36 PM] <ryanakca> So, start in april?
[01:03:56 PM] <zelut> I hate to put it off, but probably for the best.
[01:04:01 PM] <heartsbane> Unless we hear back from US Teams this like soon
[01:04:08 PM] <ryanakca> ok.
[01:04:13 PM] <zelut> April is going to have to co-exist with OpenWeek
[01:04:14 PM] <ryanakca> Same time next weekend?
[01:04:21 PM] <zelut> assuming it is next month
[01:04:22 PM] <heartsbane> yes.. before we go
[01:04:49 PM] <heartsbane> can I get someone cut and paste the chatlog and email it to me for the meeting minutes
[01:05:08 PM] <heartsbane> gobby gave out on me mid meeting