2010-11-23

For minutes of previous meetings, please see DesktopTeam/Meeting.

Meeting Minutes

Present

Main Meeting

Meeting in #ubuntu-desktop at 16:30UTC

  • Jason Warner (jasoncwarner) - chair
  • Bryce Harrington (bryce)
  • Chris Coulson (chrisccoulson)
  • Didier Roche (didrocks)
  • Gary Lasker (tremolux)
  • Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)
  • Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • Martin Pitt (pitti)
  • Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox)
  • Michael Terry (mterry)
  • Rodrigo Moya (rodrigo)
  • Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
  • Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

Eastern Edition

  • Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

  • Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)
  • Chris Halse Rogers (RAOF)

Apologies

Agenda

  • Outstanding actions from last meeting
  • Partner Update
  • Kubuntu Update
  • X Update
  • Unity Update
  • USC Update
  • Release Bugs/Release Status
  • Review activity reports
  • Any other business

Discussion

Actions from this meeting

Outstanding actions from last meeting

Partner Update

Ubuntu One

  • work items are all entered and tracked
  • desktopcouch improvements are close to landing in natty, hopefully this week

DX

  • GDBus port is well underway, but we won't be getting that uploaded to natty until after A1. It will require the entire indicator stack to be uploaded together
    • libdee and libzg port to GDBus should make it in before A1
  • dbusmenu build problems on natty
    • found problems in gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 related to gir and vapigen, fixed in natty already
    • GIRs created in natty includes more information, including class info, which is causing problems with the generated GIR in dbusmenu, ted is looking at that.

Kubuntu Update

X Update

  • X.Org 7.6 release transition:

    • (./) mostly complete in natty.

    • Warning /!\ Awaiting 23 sync requests for various video drivers, etc. Will help reduce livecd size and fix a few long-standing bugs such as xinerama support on MGA.

    • Warning /!\ Working on fixing build failures with the natty toolchain in x11 app packages

    • (X) Needs investigation: pixman 0.20.0 test failure with natty toolchain at -O2 (but not on debian with gcc-4.5), invasive evdev and synaptics patches need to be refreshed for new upstream versions.

  • -fglrx Driver: (./) fglrx works on natty again

  • -nvidia Driver: (./) tseliot updated nvidia-current to the latest version which fixes some GL lockups in multithreaded apps and uploaded a working nvidia-96 package to maverick-proposed.

  • Other Drivers: (./) no major issues known

  • Mesa: (./) no major issues known

  • Wayland: FAQ at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wayland

    • (./) Packaging work is underway with goal of getting wayland easily installable via a PPA for Intel users.

    • Warning /!\ All the various bits and pieces are packaged now, just troubleshooting one remaining mesa bug.

    • Warning /!\ Would like to get cairo-gl changes into the libcairo2 package in Natty to simplify dependency maintenance.

  • Natty X.org Bug Reports: (./) ZERO X bugs tagged natty needing developer attention as of 11/23: http://bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg Usually this chart ramps up exponentially as the release draws near; we're going to see how long into the release we can keep this chart level.

Unity update

  • New unity release this week, with a late release of bamf on Monday fixing a lot of crashes (all my fault, it was a dput away…)
  • Next release will mean unity by default, ready for A1 (existing Natty user won't be migrated as compiz doesn't allow that: when you use the new compiz version, the list of settings aren't refreshed from the default) and fallback session.
  • Detection is ready, will be pulled with tomorrow compiz snapshot
  • upgrade from maverick and gconf backend will be pulled too as a distro patch and the new compiz snapshot (there is still this pending gnome-panel issue we should sort of)
  • oh, and UNE has been killed this week Smile :)

USC update

  • Startup performance
    • Great progress this week with startup time reduced by over 1 second (from 3.1s to 1.9 s on my Dell 2.1Ghz core 2 duo)
      • Implemented a mechanism for lazy-loading views on select, to be used for all views
      • History view now loaded on demand
      • Deferred imports, other optimizations shaved off more time
      • More optimizations in-process
    • Startup time measurements now tracked at build time, soon to be formalized with daily automatic tests when reference h/w is in place in place
      • LP: #677088: Doesn't launch in <5 seconds on benchmark hardware

  • Ratings and Reviews
  • New for purchase apps added this week: Fluendo codec packs
  • Software Center 3.1.2 released includes performance improvements and many, many bug fixes and misc improvements

Weekly bugs summary

Release Status

http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-1.html

Other Business

Activity reports

Bryce Harrington (bryce)

Highlights: I've been working on getting wayland packaged into a PPA, which includes creating all new packaging for a couple components and alterations/updates to several others. Most of the packages are done, but there's still a bug in the mesa packaging I need to sort out which prevents wayland from running. I've had my first 4 patches to wayland be accepted into git, and have a few more patches in mind to make the installation of wayland clients a bit easier from a packaging perspective. I've tested self-built wayland on two different Intel systems, and worked with Ubuntu Maverick users who have built and tested it on -nouveau and -ati as well.

Status Details:

  • Packaged libxkbcommon, tested, reviewed by timo, uploaded to Universe
  • Packaged cairo with changes to enable cairo-gl.
  • Packaged mesa with changes to enable egl. Is requiring lots of time-consuming fiddling to get right set of gallium drivers built.
  • Packaged wayland itself. The server installs and runs okay now. There are some examples included which need a bit more work before they'll run.
  • Submitted 4 patches to wayland to fix minor build warnings and such.
  • X package sponsoring to support the X.org 7.6 transition. Reviewed/sponsored X.org patches. Going forward I'll be curtailing my weekly X.org patch routine, as the patch pilots project is taking its place.
  • Daily bug work, keeping the natty bug queue attended to
  • Updated/re-enabled some arsenal automated triaging tools, enabling them to run under the 'bugbot' user. Fixed issues to support Launchpad 1.0 changes.

Chris Coulson (chrisccoulson)

  • Firefox 4
    • Natty now has FF-4.0 beta 7 by default
    • Had to revert some of the packaging layout changes from the nightly branch because I couldn't get the upgrade to do what I wanted for abrowser users, which is a pain. ABrowser must die
    • Fixed a bug with the profile migrator after uploading which blocked Firefox starting if ~/.mozilla didn't exist already (oops)
    • Investigating a serious performance regression when hitting ENTER whilst editing wiki pages with lots of text
    • Switched on the startup-notification code again, that somehow got dropped in the 4.0 upgrade
    • Enabled the TestPilot extension by default in Natty, which means Natty users now have a Feedback button on the addressbar. This is only there temporarily (for the Firefox betas)

    • Got xulrunner-2.0 in to Natty
    • Split Spidermonkey from the main xulrunner binary now, so JS consumers can install xulrunner-2.0-mozjs rather than pulling in the entire toolkit. Note, that applications will still need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and find libmozjs themselves.
      • This means that xulrunner can disappear off the CD, assuming we upgrade Yelp
    • Working through review comments for Firefox GNOME 3.0 patchset
    • Created a wiki page for tracking XR-2.0 migration work. Anybody is more than welcome to help out with those Smile :)

    • Built icedtea-web against XR-2.0 and had to fix a link flag ordering issue in the meantime
  • Mozilla general
    • Firefox 3.6.13/3.5.16 updates this week
    • Investigating a build failure in Natty due to toolchain changes
  • Thunderbird 3.1 backport for Lucid
    • Got 3.1.6 in to the PPA, started testing
    • Updated thunderbird locales, enigmail and bugmail-extension
  • Desktop general
    • Updated desktop-file-utils to set Firefox as the default handler for http/https URIs

Chris Halse Rogers (RAOF)

Didier Roche (didrocks)

  • Unity:
    • Unity release (nux, unity, bamf), pushed all those in ubuntu + fix some build issues upstream.
    • rehandled transition for lucid -> futur LTS (netbook-launcher)ck

    • done nux MIR
    • libcompizconfig: still some packaging love and fix global configuration file beeing ignored, switch to gconf backend by default
    • compiz: turn some puglin on by default, fix an issue with gnome keybindings support
    • compiz/detection: worked with sam on a bailer and detection module upstream, pushed the changes to core plugin and will distro-patch for that later.
    • kill ubuntu-netbook on all arch which are different from armel: change the netbook seeds, netbook-meta package and ubuntu-netbook-default-settings. Handle the transition as well so that people upgrading are back to the desktop session and clean leftover.
  • GNOME:
    • investigate and fix a g-s-d FTBFS
    • worked on gnome-session for the gnome-panel issue and transition, but still a lot to do/decide (see email on ubuntu-desktop mailing list)
  • Misc:
    • push to ubuntu the "install in /opt" support for python and Quickly: python-support, cdbs, python-distutils-extra
    • push some evo upstream to be reviewed upstreamed.

Gary Lasker (tremolux)

  • Software Center
    • Added label support to the new spinner widget
    • Fixed LP: #673991: crash when updating software sources

      • Made branches for both natty and maverick, natty fix released
      • Proposed for maverick to unblock Software Center 3.0.6 currently in maverick-proposed
    • Startup performance work
      • Added a generic mechanism to support lazy-loading view panels on selection (to be used for all view panels)
      • Implement lazy-loading the history panel, cuts almost 1s from startup time
      • Add spinner with label and disable buttons while history is loading to provide a clean experience when the history view is selected
      • Startup speed profiling on my laptop and on a Dell Mini 9
    • Review, test, merge lp:~kiwinote/software-center/getting-the-small-things-right, many thanks!
    • Test and help verify mvo's updates to the Software Center test suite
    • Bug triage
    • Weekly Software Center call
    • Prepared Software Center weekly update for desktop meeting wiki
  • Misc
    • Travel arrangements for Platform Rally Dallas
    • 1 on 1 with Jason
  • Coming week
    • Holiday Thursday and Friday

Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)

  • Packaging KDE SC 4.5 beta 1, lots of problems with this upstrem (compile failure, missing dependencies) so slow going
  • Fixing QtWebkit package

  • Updating Grantlee, attica
  • Splitting kdegames packages, we now have patience on the CD, joy
  • Phonon default set to gstreamer, kubuntu-restricted updated
  • Qt graphics system set to raster

Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • libgwibber
    • - Client work for the new (a11y testable) UI - Merged in new stream view widget
  • gwibber testing
    • - Added the ability to dump real data returned from the web APIs. This data can be used in the test suite for better regression testing.
  • worked on dbusmenu and libindicator builds for gtk3, but found problems building even with gtk2 on natty
    • - Fixed most of the failures in gtk2 and gtk3 packages, but blocked on gir data created in dbusmenu
  • libdee
    • - enabled GIR in the package again

Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

Martin Pitt (pitti)

  • SRU/10.04.2 meeting
  • Add introspection to libnotify
  • Apport bug fixing and improvements
  • Blogged about my recent gtk-3.0/pygi porting experiences
  • Check pkg-utopia packages for Ubuntu deltas and sync
  • Fix ACLs for mobile phones (#316215)
  • Fix GtkRadioButtons annotations in GTK (GNOME #635253)

  • Fix jockey's test suite
  • Fix pkgbinarymangler to point to apt-get changelog
  • Fix unicode handling in pygi
  • Fixed handling of changelog symlinks in pkgbinarymangler
  • Forward ConsoleKit patch for #544139 to upstream

  • Media-player-info bug fixing
  • Merge consolekit, hal, multipath-tools
  • Port apport to gtk-3.0/pygi
  • Port jockey to gtk-3.0/pygi
  • Port usb-creator to gtk-3.0/pygi
  • Released new python-distutils-extra to sid and natty
  • Some rebuilds to reduce changelogs
  • Speed up jockey hardware/driver detection
  • Sponsor pango1.0, pidgin, rsyslog
  • Tech board meeting and report
  • Updated pygobject to 2.27.0, reported a few bugs upstream

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox)

  • uploaded network-manager 0.8.3 + git snapshot, fixing hostname handling in /etc/hosts
  • uploaded wpasupplicant 0.7.3
  • prepared fontconfig 2.8.0-2.1 merge
  • worked on glade-3 update to 3.7.1
  • working on three evo/e-d-s bugs for SRU for Maverick
  • patch migration of "views" directories for evolution
  • debug evo ftbfs

Michael Terry (mterry)

  • Actually formally applied to the team. Whoops!
  • GNOME3: gedit update work, finish up work on launchpad-integration & gtksourceview3, gtk3 version of gdl & libunique & vte & anjuta, fixed python issue with gnome-menus and vte

  • Quickly: Landed Philip's LPI_PACKAGE_FILE patch to launchpad-integration, landed Tony's mallard branch, worked on autosignals, reviewed didrocks's /opt branch
  • MIR: Approved nux
  • Vala Dep Scanner: Finished up 2.0 work, which now works with gir files

Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

Rodrigo Moya (rodrigo)

  • Natty updates: gnome-themes, gsettings-desktop-schemas, gnome-control-center, gnome-menus
  • GNOME 3 packaging: libgnome-media-profiles, gnome-media, gnome-keyring, gnome-settings-daemon, nautilus-sendto, gnome-bluetooth
  • Upstream:
    • Released gsettings-desktop-schemas 0.1.1, gnome-desktop 2.91.2
    • Worked upstream on invest applet to make it work with introspection (no success yet)
  • Audio:
    • Attended ubuntu-audio-dev meeting
    • Will package ossproxy
    • Will look at how to add images to apport dialogs

Sebastien Bacher (seb128)

Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

  • Work on making Poppler-based pdftoraster working for replacing the current Ghostscript-based pdftoraster, to overcome the performance problems of Ghostscript's PDF interpreter. See LP: #668800.
  • Created a small patch for shotwell to remove the "Page Setup" dialog and get its functionality (Choosing Page Size and Orientation) into the print dialog to make photo printing more intuitive. See LP: #677575). Proposed the patch also upstream.
  • Reported bugs on GTK photo apps to improve their printing functionality: f-spot (LP: #680483), GIMP (LP: #680521), Geeqie (LP: #680550). Reported also appropriate upstream bugs.
  • Changed design of HPLIP PPDs to make default paper sizes doing duplex so that one can print double-sided with OOo and GTK applications (LP: #487695).
  • Answered and triaged printing-related bug reports.

IRC LOG

(02:56:00 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner1: good morning! you'll chair today?
(02:56:09 AM) chrisccoulson: Sarvatt, oh, I see what's wrong
(02:56:23 AM) jasoncwarner1: Sure thing! 
(02:56:41 AM) hernejj [~jason@cpe-67-249-160-208.twcny.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(02:56:42 AM) pitti: (we start in 4, right?)
(02:56:44 AM) Sarvatt: doh, should look before I accept dist-upgrades eh, evolution removed :)
(02:56:50 AM) chrisccoulson: i have a version check in debian/rules to switch off -pie in natty, but i removed the lsb_release calls to get the current distro version by accident a few commits ago
(02:57:08 AM) ***chrisccoulson crawls in a dark corner
(02:58:12 AM) Sarvatt: chrisccoulson: phew, at least its not the toolchain again :)
(02:59:10 AM) chrisccoulson: heh :)
(02:59:19 AM) chrisccoulson: although, the original issue is with the toolchain ;)
(02:59:26 AM) chrisccoulson: but this one is my fault
(02:59:42 AM) chrisccoulson: the buildd's are going to love me today
(03:00:18 AM) jasoncwarner1: Ok, if my day light saving times didn't mess up again, is it that time? 
(03:00:24 AM) jasoncwarner1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-24
(03:00:28 AM) rodrigo_: jasoncwarner1, yes, seems so :)
(03:00:42 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner1: right
(03:01:00 AM) rodrigo_: ugh, the status reports have disappeared from that page
(03:01:05 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
(03:01:05 AM) ***rodrigo_ added his this morning
(03:01:11 AM) rodrigo_: ah, ok :)
(03:01:16 AM) pitti: that's because in Jason's world it's already Wednesday :)
(03:01:21 AM) rodrigo_: heh
(03:01:24 AM) jasoncwarner1: oops! :)
(03:01:44 AM) jasoncwarner1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
(03:01:46 AM) ***pitti deletes the empty -24 page
(03:02:06 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner1: ain't timezones fun?
(03:02:09 AM) kenvandine: :)
(03:02:13 AM) ***jasoncwarner1 spites time travel and timezones
(03:02:46 AM) jasoncwarner1: I can't think about timezones normally, let alone this early ;) 
(03:02:52 AM) seb128: hey everybody
KenEdwards kenvandine 
(03:03:10 AM) seb128: would be nice to highlight all team members
(03:03:20 AM) jasoncwarner1: Well, here is the quick agenda, but kenvandine needs to go first so he can leave to take care of something. 
(03:03:23 AM) didrocks: hey
(03:03:31 AM) tkamppeter: hi
(03:03:45 AM) pitti: bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_: meeting o'clock
(03:03:47 AM) tremolux: heya all
(03:03:49 AM) mterry: yup
(03:03:52 AM) jasoncwarner1: seb128: did you want to go around ? is that what you were thinking? 
(03:03:52 AM) bratsche left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(03:03:57 AM) Riddell: meeting!
(03:04:06 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner1: just the above, to "wake up" everyone
(03:04:36 AM) ***rodrigo_ wakes up
(03:04:44 AM) ***kenvandine yawns
(03:04:49 AM) kenvandine: :)
(03:05:08 AM) ***kenvandine jumps in with a partner update so i can make it to pick up one of my kids on time :)
(03:05:15 AM) kenvandine: Ubuntu One
(03:05:28 AM) kenvandine:  work items are all entered and tracked (yay, that drove me nuts last cycle)
(03:05:36 AM) kenvandine:  desktopcouch improvements are close to landing in natty, hopefully this week
(03:05:49 AM) and471 [~and471@host86-179-165-163.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] entered the room.
(03:06:00 AM) kenvandine: they have been spending quite a bit of time fixing up infrastructure problems, so lets hope it gets more reliable soon
(03:06:08 AM) kenvandine: DX
(03:06:09 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, no, just a:
(03:06:21 AM) seb128: didrocks, kenvandine, chrisccoulson, pitti, Riddell, mterry, ...: hello
(03:06:32 AM) kenvandine:  GDBus port is well underway, but we won't be getting that uploaded to natty until after A1.  It will require the entire indicator stack to be uploaded together
(03:06:36 AM) chrisccoulson: hi! :)
(03:06:48 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, so people who didn't notice the time get their IRC blinking
(03:06:49 AM) kenvandine: with the exception of libdee and libzg port to GDBus should make it in before A1
(03:06:50 AM) seb128: ;-)
(03:06:57 AM) kenvandine: those can be done individually
(03:07:05 AM) kenvandine:  dbusmenu build problems on natty
(03:07:08 AM) pitti: kenvandine: not quite sure why? you can certainly port both sides of the d-bus separately? or am I missing something?
(03:07:28 AM) pitti: i. e. each -service process can be ported individually?
(03:07:29 AM) almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
(03:07:49 AM) kenvandine: they said they need all the indicators ported at the same time as libindicator, etc
(03:08:05 AM) kenvandine: it is a pretty delicate mesh of packages... it seems
(03:08:14 AM) pitti: well, let's not dwell on it; if it all lands early, fine :)
(03:08:19 AM) kenvandine: :)
(03:08:24 AM) kenvandine: 2 weeks :)
(03:08:31 AM) kenvandine: dbusmenu build problems on natty
(03:08:32 AM) seb128: kenvandine, what about the gtk3 builds?
(03:08:36 AM) kenvandine: found problems in gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 related to gir and vapigen, fixed in natty already
(03:08:49 AM) kenvandine: GIRs created in natty includes more information, including class info, which is causing problems with the generated GIR in dbusmenu, ted is looking at that.
(03:08:52 AM) kenvandine: seb128, ^^
(03:09:02 AM) kenvandine: still doesn't build with gtk2 on natty
(03:09:05 AM) kenvandine: much less gtk3 :)
(03:09:14 AM) rodrigo_: kenvandine, oh, I'm having problems with gtk2 gir for the invest applet, so is the package already available?
(03:09:22 AM) kenvandine: he needs to look at why the class info generated in his GIR is wrong
(03:09:30 AM) kenvandine: rodrigo_, yes
(03:09:35 AM) rodrigo_: ok, will try later
(03:09:37 AM) kenvandine: :)
(03:09:42 AM) kenvandine: any questions?
(03:09:53 AM) ***kenvandine really needs to run out... sorry folks :)
(03:10:02 AM) jasoncwarner1: Later kenvandine!
(03:10:04 AM) jasoncwarner1: thanks
(03:10:18 AM) kenvandine: i read back when i get back
(03:10:19 AM) kenvandine: :)
(03:10:29 AM) rodrigo_: later kenvandine
(03:10:45 AM) seb128: kenvandine, later
(03:10:45 AM) jasoncwarner1: robert_ancell wanted to talk about meeting format, but I figure we should have that at the end. 
(03:10:53 AM) jasoncwarner1: Here is the stated agenda for now. 
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1: Agenda
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Outstanding actions from last meeting
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Partner Update
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Kubuntu Update
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * X Update
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Unity Update
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * USC Update
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Release Bugs/Release Status
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Review activity reports
(03:10:56 AM) jasoncwarner1:     * Any other business
(03:11:07 AM) jasoncwarner1: partner update got bumped up, so done. 
(03:11:18 AM) seb128: kenvandine, I'm a bit concerned about those build issues being there for 2 weeks now and I guess thanksgiving will not help this week
(03:11:22 AM) seb128: but we can talk about that later
(03:11:50 AM) jasoncwarner1: I don't see any oustanding actions from last meeting. 
(03:11:58 AM) jasoncwarner1: Can anyone remember any that weren't captured in the wiki
(03:12:12 AM) pitti: there was "[robert_ancell] Email team about meeting/action items format " which is done
(03:12:30 AM) pitti: and some actions carried over which I failed to add to the wiki page
(03:12:36 AM) pitti: jasoncwarner - follow up with tkamppeter about paper size bp
(03:13:00 AM) pitti: it seems most of this is getting done in bug reports now
(03:13:04 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: that is done, but I don't have an update for wiki yet. 
(03:13:07 AM) pitti: doko/riddell - investigate ARM issue with kubuntu
(03:13:09 AM) pitti: unknown
(03:13:28 AM) and471_ [~and471@host86-179-165-163.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] entered the room.
(03:13:31 AM) pitti: and finally, "prepare initial release page", which is done: prepare initial release page
(03:13:38 AM) pitti: sorry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
(03:13:55 AM) Riddell:   * Qt still broken on ARM, patch to GCC sent upstream for review, am told GCC won't get uploaded until after Alpha 1 so broken until then
(03:14:20 AM) and471 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(03:14:35 AM) and471_ is now known as and471
(03:14:42 AM) diwic is now known as diwic_afk
(03:15:20 AM) jasoncwarner1: ok, robert_ancell meeting format discussion we can have as the conclusion to this meeting :) 
(03:15:21 AM) pitti: Riddell: is that blocking anything on your side?
(03:15:49 AM) Riddell: pitti: only working ARM images
(03:16:01 AM) pitti: Riddell: I guess not a biggie for A1?
(03:16:09 AM) Riddell: not my main concern no
rickspencer3 Riddell 
(03:17:03 AM) jasoncwarner1: well, why don't we roll with Riddell updating and move right into Kubuntu update? 
(03:17:27 AM) Riddell:   * Qt graphics system set to raster in Kubuntu, makes things smoother and faster.  openoffice broken though, need maintainer to make 1 line patch, any chance of one appearing soon?
(03:17:31 AM) Riddell:   * Phonon set to GStreamer by default
(03:17:33 AM) Riddell:   * Patience game on the CD after package splitting, long standing request
(03:17:36 AM) Riddell:   * KDE SC 4.5 Beta 1 in progress, lots of problems with this upstrem (compile failure, missing dependencies) so slow going
(03:18:11 AM) pitti: Riddell: you can commit it to the bzr for now if you like
(03:18:23 AM) bratsche [~cody@ubuntu/member/bratsche] entered the room.
(03:18:24 AM) Riddell: pitti: commit which?
(03:18:28 AM) pitti: Riddell: the OO.o one-liner
(03:18:43 AM) Riddell: pitti: I need someone's help to find where in the 500MB of OO.o it needs to go
(03:18:51 AM) kiwinote [~kiwinote@cpc8-cove12-2-0-cust71.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] entered the room.
(03:18:58 AM) pitti: Riddell: I seriously doublt that the entire OO.o will just build with gcc-4.5, so right now I doubt that we can do a quick test build
(03:19:08 AM) pitti: Riddell: oh, the packaging bzr is rather small
(03:19:14 AM) pitti: Riddell: there's a patches/ directory
(03:19:56 AM) pitti: Riddell: or just keep it in a bug report, and we assign it to the OO.o maintainer once we have one :)
(03:20:03 AM) pitti: (should that be LO.o now?)
(03:20:05 AM) jasoncwarner1: Riddell: re: OO.o/LibO maintainer. Fingers crossed that we have someone working fulltime on LibO by early/mid Dec. It would be a huge win for all of us!
(03:20:15 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: I think it is LibO, from what I've seen
(03:21:03 AM) jasoncwarner1: Riddell: thanks for the updates. Any questions for Kubuntu update? 
(03:21:15 AM) jasoncwarner1: next item on the list is X Update otherwise
(03:21:34 AM) pitti: I guess we should move this point to the Eastern edition
(03:21:42 AM) pitti: since both bryceh and RAOF will be there nwo
(03:21:44 AM) pitti: now
(03:21:55 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: forgot, you are correct (noted)
(03:22:02 AM) pitti: we'll read it on the wiki later on
(03:22:11 AM) jasoncwarner1: then can we get a drumroll for Unity Update?  :)
(03:22:27 AM) pitti: *drumrolllllllllllll*
(03:22:33 AM) didrocks:  * New unity release this week, with a late release of bamf on Monday fixing a lot of crashes (all my fault, it was a dput away…)
(03:22:38 AM) didrocks:  * Next release will mean unity by default, ready for A1 (existing Natty user won't be migrated as compiz doesn't allow that: when you use the new compiz version, the list of settings aren't refreshed from the default) and fallback session.
(03:22:45 AM) didrocks:  * Detection is ready, will be pulled with tomorrow compiz snapshot
(03:22:51 AM) didrocks:  * upgrade from maverick and gconf backend will be pulled too as a distro patch and the new compiz snapshot
(03:23:08 AM) didrocks: (there is still this pending gnome-panel issue we should sort of)
(03:23:17 AM) didrocks:  * oh, and UNE has been killed this week :)
(03:23:37 AM) pitti: didrocks: detection> so we'll always start compiz and this then falls back to metacity/panel/etc. somehow? or do we use gnome-wm to figure it out?
(03:23:42 AM) pitti: yay
(03:24:30 AM) didrocks: pitti: depends on what we decides in the thread on ubuntu-desktop ML. We can do that, but we will break users who don't have compiz installed which used "Command Line upgrade" + uninstall
(03:24:44 AM) pitti: ok, let's discuss that on the ML then
(03:25:54 AM) jasoncwarner1: didrocks: existing natty users won't be upgraded to latest compiz this time? Something manual needs to happen? (clarifying for me mostly)
(03:26:07 AM) didrocks: jasoncwarner1: they will have latest compiz, not latest default settings
didrocks diwic_afk 
(03:26:19 AM) rodrigo_: didrocks, we can patch gnome-wm to select the correct one on detection?
(03:26:26 AM) mclasen left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(03:26:41 AM) didrocks: jasoncwarner1: when compiz dump its settings it's considered as beeing changed by the user
(03:27:13 AM) didrocks: rodrigo_: well, not that simple. I've made some examples in the email I sent latly in ubuntu-desktop ML
(03:27:39 AM) rodrigo_: didrocks, ah, didn't read it, will do later and answer any idea, if I have one :)
(03:27:56 AM) jasoncwarner1: didrocks: thanks. 
(03:28:07 AM) jasoncwarner1: any unity questions? 
(03:28:37 AM) jasoncwarner1: Anyone not running Natty or Unity at this point? 
(03:28:57 AM) ***tremolux raises hand
(03:29:01 AM) ***pitti runs natty with standard GNOME
(03:29:02 AM) seb128: I'm not
(03:29:20 AM) tremolux: I plan to do it this week
(03:29:23 AM) seb128: I need a working system ;-)
(03:29:30 AM) ***rodrigo_ runs natty with standard gnome also
(03:29:49 AM) chrisccoulson: i'm running standard GNOME too
(03:29:50 AM) pitti: still need to get used to it, and the extra space on the left side
(03:30:07 AM) chrisccoulson: it doesn't work too well with more than 1 monitor either
(03:30:18 AM) didrocks: pitti: autohide launcher + floating bar
(03:30:27 AM) pitti: didrocks: ooh, you can hide the launcher now?
(03:30:28 AM) didrocks: in ccsm
(03:30:31 AM) didrocks: yeah :)
(03:30:33 AM) pitti: nice
(03:30:37 AM) didrocks: there are two options
(03:30:38 AM) tremolux: didrocks: ah!  nice
(03:30:43 AM) didrocks: both are a must-checked! :)
(03:30:46 AM) pitti: then it won't take more space than my gnome panel right now
(03:31:00 AM) jasoncwarner1: Ok...can we agree that for this cycle we would run natty w/ unity to 1. work out bugs with DX team 2. patch where possible and 3. set the example for the world at large! :) 
(03:31:46 AM) seb128: yes
(03:32:01 AM) didrocks: jasoncwarner1: I think once A1 is out, it makes sense :)
(03:32:13 AM) pitti: right
(03:32:13 AM) didrocks: wew will have a nice-to-work-on with stable compiz and such
(03:32:22 AM) jasoncwarner1: Cool...thanks, guys...
(03:32:24 AM) jasoncwarner1: btw
(03:32:34 AM) jasoncwarner1: I fully expect an email from Telstra here in AU
(03:32:42 AM) jasoncwarner1: still not full internet...just a 3G card
(03:32:50 AM) jasoncwarner1: I upgraded all my machines on it....
(03:33:12 AM) jasoncwarner1: they probably won't like that since I believe I have a 1 gig limit ;) (free loaner card ;) )
(03:33:19 AM) jasoncwarner1: Anyway...moving on. 
(03:33:36 AM) jasoncwarner1: USC update? tremolux? 
(03:33:39 AM) tremolux: sure thing
(03:33:41 AM) tremolux: * Startup performance:  great progress this week with startup time reduced well over 1s (~35% improvement on my laptop)
(03:33:42 AM) tremolux:   * Lazy-loading of history view, other optimizations and more on the way
(03:33:42 AM) tremolux:   * Coming soon: automatic daily startup time measurements on reference H/W (Dell Mini 10)
(03:33:42 AM) tremolux:  * Ratings and Reviews:  server-side progress continues, client-side UI spec'd at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews
(03:33:42 AM) tremolux:  * Released Software Center 3.1.2 this week with current performance optimizations and many nice fixes and improvements
(03:34:51 AM) tremolux: that's all  :)
(03:34:53 AM) jasoncwarner1: tremolux: thanks. Any questions? 
(03:35:06 AM) jasoncwarner1: Next topic: Release Bugs/Release Status
(03:35:21 AM) pitti: we had the first natty release meeting last Friday
(03:35:23 AM) pitti: so I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
(03:35:43 AM) pitti: we are falling behind a little on the A1 chart, but nothing too worrying yet
(03:35:56 AM) pitti: and RC bugs are still under control
(03:36:16 AM) pitti: so nothing noteworthy from my side for the meeting; anyone else knows something which we should track at this early point?
(03:37:37 AM) DavidLevin [~DavidLevi@ool-44c53b4d.dyn.optonline.net] entered the room.
(03:38:14 AM) pitti: seems not -> done
(03:38:21 AM) jasoncwarner1: cool....
(03:38:42 AM) jasoncwarner1: Any other business to report before we officially close and give the floor to format discussion? 
(03:39:14 AM) jasoncwarner1: I guess not ;) 
(03:39:51 AM) rickspencer3 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(03:40:08 AM) jasoncwarner1: Ok. Robert isn't here so I hope I can do his thoughts justice, but everyone should have gotten his email. Any thoughts on meeting format/ 
(03:40:09 AM) jasoncwarner1: ?
(03:40:32 AM) seb128: was the meeting format in discussion?
(03:40:47 AM) KenEdwards left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(03:40:59 AM) seb128: I had the impression it was rather than the meeting is not enough and that the activity report format is not suited to reflect what we do
(03:41:48 AM) seb128: so that we need to improve communication by taking extra notes or blog
(03:42:00 AM) seb128: or tweat
(03:42:03 AM) jasoncwarner1: seb128: I took it to be that the information provided was useful for some expressed purposes, but not others. 
(03:42:05 AM) rodrigo_: or use more the mailing list
(03:42:14 AM) rickspencer3 [~rick@174-24-184-231.tukw.qwest.net] entered the room.
(03:42:21 AM) milanbv [~milanbv@85-169-120-3.rev.numericable.fr] entered the room.
(03:42:51 AM) jasoncwarner1: seb128: true...you are right
(03:43:07 AM) pitti: we don't usually have a lot of "custom" agenda items for the meeting, mostly because we seem to discuss stuff as it happens on IRC
(03:43:16 AM) pitti: so the meeting is mostly for information exchange
(03:43:39 AM) pitti: which might not be the ideal channel, since that can just as well be read on the wiki beforehand
(03:43:46 AM) seb128: pitti, one of the concerns robert had was that only people on IRC during european and US hours get those infos
(03:43:53 AM) seb128: we don't have easy summary of what is being worked
(03:43:55 AM) pitti: but I do appreciate the possibility to have everyone online once a week and be able to ask questions
(03:43:58 AM) seb128: what help is needed
(03:44:12 AM) seb128: what people should be aware of, or careful about, etc
(03:44:17 AM) pitti: right, the status updates that we do here shold be on the wiki, too
(03:44:24 AM) pitti: like, kenvandine usually puts them there and copies to IRC
(03:44:29 AM) seb128: did you read robert's email?
(03:44:38 AM) pitti: yes, I did
(03:44:53 AM) seb128: well I think the main point was that we miss a summary of things like
(03:44:56 AM) pitti: so our weekly meeting wiki page should be a kind of weekly status report for people interested in the details
(03:45:07 AM) seb128: "dbusmenu update to gtk3 is being worked by kenvandine but blocked on gir issues"
(03:45:19 AM) oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away
(03:45:22 AM) seb128: "you might want to be careful about the recent gtk update"
(03:45:24 AM) pitti: but that's the stuff that people shold put into their weekly report, no?
(03:45:47 AM) seb128: well I think we agreed the meeting is useful and don't want to drop it
(03:45:52 AM) charlie-tca left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(03:46:05 AM) seb128: but we need something dynamic which has a day to day summary
(03:46:28 AM) seb128: like something .au guys could read in a few hours when they start their day which tell them what happened today
(03:46:31 AM) seb128: on what they could help
(03:46:33 AM) milanbv left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(03:46:47 AM) seb128: that would also be useful to get extra community involvement
(03:46:49 AM) rodrigo_: yeah, that would be useful also for newcomers like me, and community people
(03:46:52 AM) milanbv [~milanbv@85-169-120-3.rev.numericable.fr] entered the room.
(03:47:03 AM) Sarvatt: bryceh, RAOF: sorry I'm in 2 meetings at the same time here but in case it helps for the eastern meeting here's a summary of the X updates last week - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/20101123-X-Updates.txt
(03:47:42 AM) seb128: pitti, dumping what we did once a week doesn't really help people to jump in task or getting help during the week
(03:47:49 AM) seb128: not sure if you see what I mean
seb128 seiflotfy sense 
(03:48:27 AM) seb128: we have lot of email discussion rounds between a few people recently to get status updates on what's going on with things like some GNOME3 updates
(03:48:36 AM) seb128: or gtk3
(03:48:47 AM) seb128: or dbusmenu gir issues and what is blocking gtk3 builds
(03:48:54 AM) rodrigo_: I think all those discussions should go to the mailing list
(03:49:11 AM) seb128: well mailing list is nice for discussions
(03:49:16 AM) rodrigo_: yeah
(03:49:17 AM) didrocks: issues or help needed -> ML
(03:49:18 AM) seb128: not really for taking a few notes
(03:49:24 AM) seb128: didrocks, not really
(03:49:30 AM) seb128: like robert dropped me some emails last week
(03:49:42 AM) seb128: "start on totem and gtk3 but got blocked by a python crash"
(03:49:43 AM) didrocks: report, few notes or parts of what's going on -> Wiki
(03:49:54 AM) seb128: "started on the rb update but it's crashing"
(03:50:02 AM) seb128: didrocks, I hate wikis
(03:50:05 AM) didrocks: really a day to day?
(03:50:11 AM) pitti: seb128: I see what you mean, but writing day-to-day reports is quite a lot of additional overhead IMHO
(03:50:21 AM) seb128: not reports
(03:50:32 AM) seb128: but just having a whiteboard for people who want to dump notes at least
(03:50:44 AM) seb128: and maybe having somebody blogging interesting things once a way
(03:50:47 AM) seb128: way -> week
(03:50:50 AM) didrocks: some kind of etherpad to annotate and such?
(03:50:54 AM) seb128: didrocks, right
(03:50:56 AM) milanbv left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(03:51:03 AM) seb128: we suggested etherpad or status.net
(03:51:08 AM) pitti: besides our firehose of email and IRC that'd be yet another thing to watch out for..
(03:51:15 AM) jasoncwarner1: I think that is why someone suggested status updates (what is that called...status.ubuntu.com? )
(03:51:48 AM) seb128: pitti, nobody ask you to watch for
(03:52:02 AM) seb128: but it could cut some noise from IRC
(03:52:04 AM) didrocks: hum, need to tweet and have another way to be disturbed, but I can understand the rationale
(03:52:16 AM) seb128: well I think the main point is to be able to let other people know things you want to share
(03:52:21 AM) gabaug [~gabaug@opensuse/member/gabrielburt] entered the room.
(03:52:43 AM) seb128: you can't expect community people to jump in and help solving issue if there is nowhere they can see what needs help
(03:52:56 AM) pitti: they could (and do) ask here?
(03:53:04 AM) seb128: like someone could perhaps help kenvandine to get libdbusmenu work on natty
(03:53:15 AM) seb128: well the point is that ken could write he's blocked
(03:53:24 AM) seb128: so when robert starts his day he knows he could maybe help there
(03:53:26 AM) ajmitch [~ajmitch@vps.ajmitch.net.nz] entered the room.
(03:53:26 AM) ajmitch left the room (quit: Changing host).
(03:53:26 AM) ajmitch [~ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] entered the room.
(03:53:41 AM) seb128: I think the main issue is that ie robert_ancell has little clue of how he could be useful
(03:53:47 AM) seb128: he joins after we left
(03:53:54 AM) seb128: and there is nowhere for him to get those infos
(03:54:22 AM) pitti: for this it seems that he and you or me should have at least half an hour of overlap on the day
(03:54:47 AM) pitti: or if not, and you have stuff like that, you could just mail him?
(03:54:56 AM) seb128: well it's not only robert
(03:55:02 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: I think that solves the specific problem, but the general problem continues. 
(03:55:03 AM) pitti: don't get me wrong, I don't object to other means
(03:55:07 AM) seb128: it could be mterry and robert
(03:55:14 AM) pitti: but it seems this is a rather specific problem and we might be overdesigning stuff here
(03:55:22 AM) chmrr left the room.
(03:55:29 AM) seb128: or it could be some contributor who is watching what we do (or not because there is no place now to watch for those)
(03:55:37 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: we could be ! :) but it is probably worth talking about
(03:56:11 AM) pitti: we could try a kind of "status whiteboard" where everyone says what they are working on and what's blocking them
(03:56:30 AM) pitti: (as you proposed)
(03:57:32 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, sorry I feel I hijacked the discussion with my view of the issue
(03:57:33 AM) pitti: when I have stuff like that, I usually just /query people, but that might not work for everyone, of course
(03:57:36 AM) mpt left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(03:57:40 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, you might want to drive back ;-)
(03:57:41 AM) ara left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(03:57:55 AM) pitti: seb128: you seem to be particularly affected by this, so that was helpful
(03:58:02 AM) seb128: pitti, well part of it is to have things eager contributors could jump in with
(03:58:08 AM) jasoncwarner1: seb128: you are the more appropriate person to have the discussion ;)
(03:58:29 AM) seb128: pitti, like kenvandine's libdbusmenu issue
(03:58:39 AM) pitti: seb128: for contributors I still think that IRC is better than a board; talking to people >> staring at a (potentially outdated) board, but perhaps that's just me
(03:58:51 AM) seb128: there might be some contributor out there which could fix it if he,she knew we were blocked on it
(03:59:13 AM) seb128: or that kenvandine would welcome help to figure what is wrong
(04:00:00 AM) seb128: pitti, well, query people means you reach somebody specific
(04:00:14 AM) seb128: it works fine for a small team
(04:00:20 AM) didrocks: (sorry, have to pop into another meeting, I have no strong opinion on that and will follow you guys, I'll read back)
(04:00:26 AM) andreasn_ [~andreas@c83-248-192-174.bredband.comhem.se] entered the room.
(04:00:27 AM) pitti: right, I mean as a contributor I could just come to #u-desktop and ask what's up
(04:00:49 AM) seb128: depending on the time of the day and who is around or busy that will work or not
(04:01:13 AM) cyphermox: pitti, it can feel a little daunting to new contributors, especially towards the end of the release when things get really busy :)
(04:01:37 AM) pitti: well, let's just say that I'm willing to try something, but don't have proposals on my own, since apparenlty I don't have that problem so much
(04:02:11 AM) jasoncwarner1: How about this, to limit the scope of the initial challenge, focus on the team and see if it works ? 
(04:02:44 AM) jasoncwarner1: if it works, we can see if that same solution works on a broader sense? 
(04:03:02 AM) jasoncwarner1: that might be helpful so we don't start to chase ourselves down the rabbit hole....
(04:03:11 AM) cyphermox: would it make sense for a different person each week to somewhat keep track of what goes on and publish that somewhere?
(04:03:40 AM) DavidLevin left the room (quit: Quit: DavidLevin).
(04:03:42 AM) tremolux: seems we are just talking about adding something "sticky", so maybe start lightweight with an etherpad page and add the link to the "If you want to help out" list at the IRC header
(04:03:48 AM) pitti: cyphermox: we already have the weekly wiki page for that
(04:04:06 AM) KenEdwards [~ken@rrcs-24-242-129-70.sw.biz.rr.com] entered the room.
(04:04:06 AM) cyphermox: pitti, right
(04:04:15 AM) pitti: there's certainly ways to improve that
(04:04:19 AM) seb128: right
(04:04:25 AM) pitti: and we probably should start to mail that around again
(04:04:29 AM) seb128: ok, I see we have several issues and I raised only one there
(04:04:30 AM) pitti: (we did in the past)
(04:04:32 AM) seb128: so issues are
(04:04:46 AM) seb128: - the activity report are focussed on describing what we did task by task
(04:05:00 AM) seb128: where they would better be "things that readers could be interested in"
(04:05:07 AM) seb128: like coming transitions, breakages
(04:05:12 AM) seb128: important technologies landing
(04:05:34 AM) seb128: we do list all the updates we did, sponsoring, etc
(04:05:53 AM) seb128: we should maybe change that
(04:05:57 AM) pitti: well, I try to do that already
(04:06:17 AM) pitti: I don't mention stuff like email, bug triaging, archive admin, SRU processing etc. any more
(04:06:20 AM) seb128: I don't, or didn't until robert pointed it
(04:06:52 AM) pitti: but I do write stuff like "fix startup crash in foo (#123)" or "port foo to libbar"
(04:07:13 AM) seb128: right
(04:07:23 AM) pitti: indeed it shouldn't be a time sheet
(04:07:35 AM) seb128: but we don't write things like libdbus soname breakage coming next week, be ready
(04:07:52 AM) ***jasoncwarner1 notes time. I have to run to a call in a few minutes
(04:08:03 AM) seb128: ok
(04:08:17 AM) jasoncwarner1: how about this
(04:08:35 AM) pitti: seb128: right, we could/should add that to the report
(04:08:45 AM) pitti: "Done:", "blocked by:", "plan for next week:"
(04:08:47 AM) pitti: ?
(04:09:01 AM) jasoncwarner1: final action from this meeting would be for all of us to think about this for the week, watch our daily activities and see how it can be improved given this discussion? It might be interesting? 
(04:09:05 AM) jasoncwarner1: pitti: I love that format
(04:09:16 AM) seb128: pitti, would be a nice start I think
(04:09:16 AM) jasoncwarner1: especially "blocked by"
(04:09:29 AM) seb128: if you read the second email from robert, how do we get there
(04:09:37 AM) seb128: "* x new bugs were opened, y were closed
(04:09:37 AM) seb128: * We completed x items in the work tracker.  We are ahead of the trend
(04:09:37 AM) seb128: line.
(04:09:37 AM) seb128: * x packages were updated in natty."
(04:09:38 AM) seb128: etc
(04:09:52 AM) bryceh: seb128, that bit is scriptable
(04:09:58 AM) seb128: or rather things like
(04:10:00 AM) seb128: "* Remmina has replaced tsclient on the CD, please try it an let us
(04:10:00 AM) seb128: know if it is an improvement.
(04:10:00 AM) seb128: * We are behind in updating GNOME, please have a look at
(04:10:00 AM) seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html and help
(04:10:00 AM) seb128: out if you can"
(04:10:01 AM) dpm left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(04:10:13 AM) seb128: the first ones are regular tracking
(04:10:19 AM) rodrigo_: in the u1 team, we did quick daily standups, with DONE, TODO, BLOCKED sections for each person
(04:10:21 AM) pitti: are the stats really taht interesting?
(04:10:26 AM) seb128: but I think one things we lack is a nice summary of what is happening
(04:10:32 AM) seb128: something we could blog about once a week
(04:10:39 AM) seb128: like having a desktop world blog
(04:10:46 AM) seb128: pitti, no, I picked the wrong lines
(04:10:50 AM) KenEdwards left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
(04:10:51 AM) rodrigo_: not sure if daily is too much, but they were 5/10 mins maximum
(04:10:55 AM) bryceh: pitti, I don't think so.  Personally I think a graph would be better but even that is just for interest's sake really.
(04:10:59 AM) rodrigo_: and you knew what everyone was up to
(04:11:08 AM) seb128: not sure either
(04:11:19 AM) bryceh: desktop world blog -- like it :-)
(04:11:20 AM) pitti: bryceh: I agree; it's more interesting what changed than how much; and #opened bugs isn't really all that related to what we do, too
(04:11:22 AM) seb128: robert suggested that
(04:11:41 AM) seb128: pitti, bryceh: yeah, forget the metrics datas
(04:11:44 AM) pitti: rodrigo_: doesn't work that well with having people in all timezones
(04:11:51 AM) rodrigo_: yeah, right
(04:12:03 AM) seb128: ok
(04:12:09 AM) DavidLevin [~DavidLevi@ool-44c53b4d.dyn.optonline.net] entered the room.
(04:12:12 AM) rodrigo_: but at least the eastern people could have a daily updater of what the western people are up to, and viceversa
(04:12:12 AM) seb128: so let's agree on some things to wrap
(04:12:14 AM) pitti: but such a summary could certainly be distilled from the individual reports on the weekly wiki report page
(04:12:42 AM) bryceh: problem with 'distilling' is that it imposes some secretarial work on some poor soul
(04:12:47 AM) seb128: is everybody ok with making the activity summaries reflect what would interest readers or contributors rather than being task lists?
(04:12:52 AM) bryceh: and with as many people are there are on the desktop team, that'd be non-trivial
(04:13:00 AM) seb128: which would include blocking issues and plans for next week if any?
(04:13:07 AM) bryceh: seb128, yes
(04:13:09 AM) pitti: seb128: +1
(04:13:30 AM) pitti: leave out the chore bits, and be more concrete
(04:13:33 AM) seb128: ok, great, so that's something
(04:13:50 AM) seb128: second, seems we need extra discussions
(04:13:56 AM) pitti: in the past I wrote stuff like "udev bug fixing", I now siwtched to "fix detection of DVD-RWs in udev"
(04:13:58 AM) seb128: but some people would like a whiteboard in some way
(04:14:00 AM) bryceh: needs more voting ;-)
(04:14:02 AM) seb128: etherpad, status.net
(04:14:13 AM) seb128: nobody would be forced to use it
(04:14:20 AM) seb128: but people could drop things they are blocking on
(04:14:28 AM) joaopinto left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(04:14:36 AM) seb128: or tasks they would welcome help with
(04:14:46 AM) seb128: we can see if others pick those or if that's useful in some way
(04:15:07 AM) seb128: like an async light communication way out of IRC
(04:15:09 AM) bryceh: pitti, in fact we might even need to be a bit more verbose than usual if we intend it to be end-user readable
(04:15:19 AM) seb128: for people who don't overlap on IRC
(04:15:46 AM) pitti: bryceh: right, but in a different way; drop the uninteresting bits and make the interesting ones more verbose
(04:15:51 AM) bryceh: pitti, exactly
(04:16:36 AM) seb128: ok
(04:16:43 AM) seb128: so I think we have agreement on that one at least
(04:16:49 AM) bryceh: seb128, I like the idea of etherpad but I wonder if that might not be the easiest for end users to consume from.  Would someone be copying from there into a blog?
(04:17:02 AM) seb128: we need extra thinking about the whiteboard one
(04:17:07 AM) seb128: bryceh, that was my next point
(04:17:24 AM) seb128: ideally we would have someone each week doing a summary and blog or something
(04:17:28 AM) seb128: we could rotate on that
(04:17:44 AM) seb128: I don't really want to add extra tasks so maybe an opt-in from those interested
(04:17:45 AM) bryceh: I mean, we could just each write a blog entry, and then mechanically collate them via a planetplanet
(04:17:48 AM) seb128: could be community people as well
(04:18:29 AM) seb128: well if people want to blog they can already do that
(04:18:42 AM) seb128: but seems most in the team don't and I don't think we should add constrains or tasks
(04:18:42 AM) bryceh: seb128, I recall back when I started on desktop we would write up meeting summaries, but it was hard getting volunteers and somehow we stopped doing that
(04:19:10 AM) pitti: right, they were pretty much a text dump of the weekly wiki page
(04:19:10 AM) bryceh: so that's my one worry with adding a summary writing task
(04:19:22 AM) seb128: right
(04:19:30 AM) pitti: so if we make the wiki page more useful, that woudl be beneficial again, too
(04:19:32 AM) seb128: well maybe if we improve the activity report enough and have an etherpad
(04:19:52 AM) seb128: it would be easier for contributors or people outside the team to pick up and make a nice weekly summary
(04:19:59 AM) bryceh: yeah might be that fixing up activity reports is less work than writing meeting summaries had been
(04:20:24 AM) seb128: well if activity reports are nice it would be easy for someone to pick up the main points and blog or something
(04:20:40 AM) seb128: we might not need everything from the report
(04:20:46 AM) seb128: just a few highlights
(04:20:54 AM) pitti: (and include a link)
(04:20:56 AM) bryceh: how about rotate the task among desktoppers who are not doing patch pilot?  ;-)
(04:21:22 AM) joaopinto [~janito@ubuntu/member/joaopinto] entered the room.
(04:21:22 AM) bryceh: (kidding!)
(04:22:03 AM) seb128: lol
(04:22:04 AM) ***tremolux dreams to grow up to be a Patch Pilot someday
(04:22:10 AM) tremolux: :D
(04:22:11 AM) seb128: anyway I think we are going round now
(04:22:24 AM) seb128: so let's agree to improve the activity report summary
(04:22:26 AM) bryceh: yeah sounds like we have a tangible enough plan
(04:22:41 AM) seb128: we can add the whiteboard or status.net for those who want
(04:23:01 AM) cking left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(04:23:08 AM) seb128: and let's see if we can motivate some contributor to pick up things from there and blog every now and then about what we do
(04:23:16 AM) joaopinto left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(04:23:30 AM) seb128: one remaining thing
(04:23:41 AM) seb128: I find the unity, software-center, dx etc summary nice
(04:24:04 AM) pitti: *nod*
(04:24:06 AM) seb128: we should maybe have everybody in the team to do a short summary this way
(04:24:10 AM) al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
(04:24:10 AM) seb128: of things they are doing
(04:24:19 AM) alecu is now known as alecu-lunch
(04:24:28 AM) seb128: or maybe that's just "get the activity reports nicer"
(04:24:43 AM) pitti: was just going to say :)
(04:24:44 AM) seb128: maybe those should be the activity report from didrocks's week or tremolux's one
(04:24:44 AM) tremolux: back when I rotated to foundations, we called it "lightning round"
(04:24:47 AM) pitti: we actually did that in the past
(04:24:48 AM) njpatel left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(04:24:59 AM) pitti: I mean, haveing everyone standing up and paste their report
(04:25:06 AM) seb128: well I think we got bored to read those on IRC
(04:25:18 AM) seb128: or to wait from everybody to copy their summary
(04:25:22 AM) hernejj left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(04:25:31 AM) seb128: so maybe it should just be on the wiki
(04:25:46 AM) seb128: I think we are back to improve the activity reports
(04:25:50 AM) seb128: so let's wrap up ;-)
(04:25:58 AM) seb128: and see what we can do from those
(04:26:25 AM) seb128: we can probably learn a bit over time by seeing what format people come with exactly and what is nicer to read
(04:26:47 AM) bryceh: oh one other suggestion
(04:26:48 AM) seb128: I've the feeling that summaries to the one we do for unity etc every week now are what we want
(04:26:57 AM) bryceh: more screenshots, graphs, and other eye candy please :-)
(04:27:00 AM) seb128: summaries similar
(04:27:18 AM) bryceh: they'll make the reading more fun, and wiki supports embedding them
(04:27:19 AM) seb128: yeah, that would be nice as well
(04:27:39 AM) seb128: anybody having something to add?
(04:28:08 AM) Keybuk left the room (quit: Quit: Keybuk).
(04:28:21 AM) joaopinto [~janito@ubuntu/member/joaopinto] entered the room.
(04:29:02 AM) cking [~king@cpc7-craw6-2-0-cust128.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] entered the room.
(04:29:39 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, when you are back, I think we agreed on trying to improve the activity reports to be summary of what can be interesting to readers including blockers and what is coming next
(04:29:51 AM) seb128: rather than detailed list of items
(04:30:06 AM) seb128: with screenshots, etc if possible
(04:30:59 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner1, we might still want to think about how we could do dump day to day thoughts, ideas, call for help on issues, etc for next week


CategoryDesktopTeam

Back to DesktopTeam.

DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23 (last edited 2012-06-14 23:51:36 by chasedouglas)