20101201

DistributedDevelopment steering meeting to be held in #ubuntu-meeting on 2010-12-01 at 2100 UTC.

Agenda

Summary

  • Top bazaar work items:
    • get network performance closer to apt-get source
    • get the imports working more reliably
    • bring package-import.u.c in-house
  • Bazaar/UDD hacking sprint coming up at platform rally

New actions

Log

<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK],
          [VOTE]
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda  [16:01]
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101201
<poolie> (hi all)
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101201
<MootBot> LINK received:
          https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101201
<barry> poolie: hi
<barry> i guess we'll wait a few minutes for folks to show up
* jelmer waves  [16:02]
* ajmitch_ is sort of caught up in stuff at work this morning
<barry> ajmitch_: cool.  thumper, james_w hi  [16:03]
<james_w> hey
<barry> no slangasek?
<barry> let's get started then...  [16:04]
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry> reviewing from 2 weeks ago
<james_w> slangasek is on vacation
<barry> james_w: ack
<barry>    * barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c
        (ongoing)  [16:05]
<barry> 
<barry> we've been in discussion w/ dholbach and others about this re:
        updating the packaging guidelines.  i think the above action will fall
        under that initiative so i'm going to mark this one as done
<barry> or at least take it off the list :)
<barry>    * poolie to capture uds session notes in a wiki page, with more
        detail (turn it into a blueprint?)  [16:06]
<barry> 
<poolie> k
<poolie> i didn't write anything more detailed about the uds sessions
<poolie> i did linke to the transcript
<poolie> and post about the survey results, after which there was some
         discussion
<poolie> is more summary documentation of  UDS wanted?  [16:07]
<poolie> i don't think it's a high priority now
<barry> agreed.  the only thing left is to decide whether we want to add some
        work items to the blueprint  [16:08]
<jelmer> poolie: didn't you already send a brief summary to the list?
<barry> jelmer: hi!
<jelmer> hey Barry :-)
<poolie> i can't recall if i did that before or after the previous meeting
<poolie> so it's either done, or scratched off  :)
*** JanC_ (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) is now known as JanC
<cdbs> Now, which meeting is this?  [16:09]
<jelmer> cdbs: Ubuntu Distributed Development
<barry> the blueprint is here:
        https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-foundations-n-distributed-development-review-and-planning
<barry> poolie: k
* cdbs is a fan of UDD, so will watch around
<poolie> next? ajmitch?
<barry>    * ajmitch to come up with questions/topics for next meeting (re:
        REVU)
<barry> 
<barry> ajmitch_: we can carry that one forward to the next meeting if you
        want  [16:11]
<barry> i guess we will
<barry>    * poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
<barry> 
<poolie> still to do; carry it over
<barry> thx  [16:13]
<barry> that's it for action items
<barry> [TOPIC] work items for blueprint
<MootBot> New Topic:  work items for blueprint
<barry> [LINK]
        https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-foundations-n-distributed-development-review-and-planning
<MootBot> LINK received:
          https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-foundations-n-distributed-development-review-and-planning
<barry> so we have this blueprint, and robbiew was pinging me about work items
        for natty.  i'm being kept pretty busy this cycle and sadly haven't
        had much time to circle back to udd work.  what can we realistically
        accomplish this cycle that we want to add to the blueprint?  [16:14]
<poolie> i'm not quite sure what that means
<ajmitch_> barry: apologies, in the middle of debugging something - next
           meeting would be good
<poolie> these are work items so that we can track how much effort we
         should/have expend?
<poolie> or how much progress was made?  [16:15]
<barry> i think robbiew is looking for work items that we can still accomplish
        in natty cycle
<barry> right, so tracking effort yet to be expended
<poolie> so after the survey and uds, there are two main things i want to do
         in the bzr team
<poolie> - get network performance closer to apt-get source
<poolie> (we should set a quanitifiable target, but i think we should do more
         investigation first)  [16:16]
<poolie> - get the imports working more reliably
<poolie> those seem like things that would help and that are plausible for
         natty
<poolie> perhaps they're too big/small/vague to be work items?  [16:17]
<barry> wholehearted +1 for both
<barry> probably to big/vague, though great goals
<barry> well, network performance closer to apt-get source seems nearly work
        item-y  [16:18]
<barry> maybe with some percentage for "close"?
<poolie> i think to make it specific and measurable we need to describe things
         more specifically  [16:19]
<jelmer> poolie: is there a specific way of fetching you have in mind to
         compete with apt-get source ? Is this for 'bzr co --lightweight' /
         'bzr branch' / whatever is fastest ?
<poolie> for, someone with GbE to a source mirror there is no prospect we'll
         match it in the short term
<poolie> jelmer, first looking for waste in simple branching atm
<poolie> or an a lightweight checkout  [16:20]
<poolie> next, a shallow checkout - john is doing code changes towards that
<barry> poolie: wasn't there some talk about trying to set up local mirrors of
        branches?  would that be more than just a fancy cron?  [16:21]
<poolie> it wouldn't necessarily have to be more than that  [16:22]
<poolie> my inclination is to try to make the straightforward use faster first
<poolie> perhaps we should look at doing it earlier?  [16:23]
<poolie> it could be a big win but it also makes things a little more
         complicated
<barry> it's hard for me to say.  bzr branch is not onerous for me, so it
        wouldn't be a huge win for me.  but for others it might be  [16:24]
<poolie> let's leave that as a medium priority
<poolie> i think there's a bug in udd discussing it
<barry> we can still add it as a work item though
<barry> i think what you describe above could be condensed into other work
        items, at least for now (they can always change later).  i can take a
        shot at extracting that if you want  [16:25]
<barry> and poolie you can decide later about resource allocation  [16:26]
<poolie> can you point me to a spec that is a good example of the right work
         item granularity?
<barry> i'm not sure such a thing exists ;)
<barry> but hang on, let me see if i can find something close
<barry>
        https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-robust-python-packaging
                                                                        [16:27]
<barry> that one has gone through a few iterations, but sadly blueprint
        whiteboards have a history erase button
<poolie> or no history at all, in fact?  [16:28]
<barry> indeed
<poolie> ok i see  [16:29]
<poolie> so this might help us keep track of things that don't match well to
         single bugs, or that aren't all in the same pkg
<barry> yep
<poolie> i'll see about adding them as we go along
<barry> on the package importer failures, iiuc, we have very close to 2k
        failures, with some common problems.  perhaps a few work items there
        could be: categorize failures; make sure bugs are filed; fix top two
        common failures; reduce failures by 50%, etc.
<barry> poolie cool.  i'll leave that to you  [16:30]
<poolie> at the moment we have something at a similar level on
         https://wiki.canonical.com/Bazaar/Plate
<barry> we also have a work item for moving that infrastructure into IS, right
        james_w?
<poolie> right  [16:31]
<poolie> that progressed a bit, i think
<james_w> yes
<poolie> it's mostly gated on IS having time (in between midnight outages) to
         rebuild a machine for us
<barry> cool.  should definitely add it as a work item to get credit for it :)
                                                                        [16:32]
<barry> what do you think about the other suggestions above?
<poolie> i think those would be good steps  [16:33]
<poolie> an item of getting it to zero might be elusive but we could have
         incremental steps
<barry> yep.  i'll add those, and of course they can always be changed
<barry> any other thoughts on the blueprint work items?
<poolie> guess that's a no?
<barry> [TOPIC] bugs of interest  [16:36]
<MootBot> New Topic:  bugs of interest
<poolie> should the list be roughly the length of things we expect to do
         before natty? or conservative, or optimistic?
<barry> for now it can be optimistic.  it's very easy to postpone, remove,
        change items as the cycle progresses, with really no penalty to do so
<poolie> because we did this in detail last week, i propose this week just to
         talk about ones that changed or are interesting
<poolie> k  [16:37]
<barry> poolie: +1
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/653307 is, i think, understood,
         but needs to be finished
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 653307 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Import fails
         with missing referenced chk root keys" [Critical,In progress]
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/603395 is fixed or nearly fixed?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout
         does not propagate new tags" [High,In progress]
<poolie> james_w: are you here? any comments on redoing the imports affected
         by 653307?  [16:38]
<james_w> I am
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/556132 is being worked on by
         exarkun, a twisted developer
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 556132 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "bzr: ERROR:
         paramiko.SSHException: Key-exchange timed out; consistent after
         sending 1GB data" [Medium,Triaged]
<poolie> and i think that's all that's changed from that list this week
                                                                        [16:39]
<james_w> poolie, was my comment in the bug unclear?
<poolie> no, perfectly clear, thanks
<poolie> just wondered if anything happened after that
<james_w> nope
* barry has nothing to add
<poolie> but we should be able to do the checks and then ... i guess delete
         them from the package-import machine?  [16:40]
<poolie> our SRU MRE was blocked and i think is now unblocked, so some fixes
         will get into maverick-updates in a few weeks
<barry> that would fix a nice handful of failures  [16:41]
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<barry> anything else not on the agenda?  any good news?
<poolie> we're having a hacking sprint at the platform rally
<james_w> poolie, you have to delete them from codehosting, and then clear out
          the info on package-import for them, and then retry  [16:43]
<poolie> i think you all already know that
<poolie> ok, thanks
<poolie> any other complaints or bugs?
<jelmer> I added one to the list
<jelmer> I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this meeting, it's not strictly
         useful for the way UDD works.  [16:44]
<jelmer> I've been trying out recipes for a couple of different projects in
         the past few weeks. It's quite easy to set them up and stay working
         over time, but I'm finding that I have to go back often and update
         the version string and the source dependencies, something that could
         be automated.  [16:45]
<james_w> yeah, version string is the biggest maintainence burden IME
<barry> do you think recipes are getting the publicity they need?
<poolie> ok
<poolie> good question
<poolie> maybe we should ask thumper to this meeting next time; he's been
         working a lot on them
<jelmer> james_w: Build-Depends is the other one for me, some of the packages
         I work with increase the versions of their dependencies regularly.
* ajmitch saw recipes demoed live for the first time about 2 weeks ago
<poolie> are they ready for wider pubilicity?  [16:47]
<barry> poolie: thumper *is* the lp stakeholder :)  but maybe this time sucks
        for him
<poolie> they seem to be growing organically
<james_w> I would like to see the beta label removed, so that we can be more
          forceful in encouraging people to use them
<poolie> it's about 11am for him
<ajmitch> barry: the meeting starts at 10AM for him, we're in the same
          timezone
<barry> ah, so i just need to ask flacoste bring the hammer down :)
<jelmer> poolie: They work well at the moment, though there've been a few
         breakages in the last two weeks.
<ajmitch> same city, for that matter :)  [16:48]
<poolie> i'll find out, or send a mail or talk to him about what the path is
         to general availability
<barry> poolie: great, thanks  [16:49]
<barry> anything else today?  [16:50]
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting

DistributedDevelopment/20101201 (last edited 2010-12-06 12:56:50 by mail)