(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting November 20, 2005

  01:01 JaneW       hi all
  01:01 JaneW       role call
  01:01 JaneW       roll even
  === kjcole is Kevin Cole
  01:02 JaneW       is ogra in the house?
  01:03 highvoltage he quit a few minutes ago.
  01:03 kjcole      JaneW: Ogra was a few min ago
  === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  01:03 JaneW       let's give him a minute to return...
  01:03 jelkner     he's back
  01:03 highvoltage wow, that worked :)
  === flint [n=flint@69-164-120-179.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined
  === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  01:03 JaneW       hi ogra
  01:03 ogra        grumble ...
  01:03 JaneW       and flint and mhz
  === mhz is here
  01:03 highvoltage hi ogra
  01:03 ogra        hi all
  01:03 highvoltage and flint and JaneW
  01:03 mhz         hi you all, Edubuntereos! :D
  01:04 ogra        working on erge bugs is no fun
  01:04 ogra        *merge
  01:04 flint       do you have any idea how early this is? Good Morning...
  01:04 spacey      i'm present
  01:04 JaneW       hi spacey
  01:04 kjcole      Ogra: No urge to merge?
  01:04 mhz         flint: fresh ideas in the morning
  01:04 ogra        kjcole, all merge bugs have to be finished tomorrow...
  01:04 ogra        (for main)
  01:04 flint       morning kevin, jane, ollli et al.
  === kjcole sleepily mumbles something aproximating a greeting to all
  01:06 ogra        so tech update ?
  === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-79-66-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined
  01:06 flint       where is my coffee...jane you carp about agendas?
  01:06 highvoltage ogra: fire away!
  01:06 jelkner     ogra: please do!
  01:06 kjcole      As jane said a few min ago.. Roll call first?
  01:06 flint       oh no, it's elkner!!!
  === highvoltage is here
  === kjcole is Kevin Cole
  01:07 ogra        shows that we are pretty good for the flight CD on
  01:07 flint       flint is flint
  === jelkner is Jeff Elkner
  === spacey is Herman Bos
  01:07 spacey      :P
  === ogra is OliverGrawert
  === highvoltage is JonathanCarter
  === Yagisan is Jamie Jones
  01:08 ogra        the only differenc we have to the ubuntu CD currently is
                    kino, which i currently consider to be dropped completely...
  01:08 ogra        kino is a video editing app...
  01:08 highvoltage ogra: how does the space look like?
  01:08 ogra        video editing over ltsp is no real fun ...
  01:08 highvoltage ogra: are the applications larger than the previous
  01:08 ogra        we are at 670MB currently ...
  01:08 ogra        so plenty of space ...
  01:09 highvoltage nice.
  01:09 mhz         ogra: besidea, I've been told Kino is not the best ,so far,
                    video editing app.
  01:09 ogra        i requested a live filesystem build from lamont, but didnt
                    hear back yet
  01:09 ogra        mhz, its the best we have in main
  01:09 ogra        and i'd like to keep it ... but it doesnt really make sense
                    if you cant use it ...
  01:10 ogra        videos over ltsp give you ~10 frames a second
  01:10 ogra        which is not better than a slideshow
  01:10 spacey      lots of video stuff in development
  01:10 spacey      but not mature
  01:10 Yagisan     ogra: is that because of lack of video acceleration on the
                    clients ?
  01:10 ogra        might be, but i dont thik the video issue can be solved
                    before dapper
  01:11 ogra        Yagisan, its because you send the picture back and forth
                    through the ssh connection
  01:11 spacey      high traffic
  01:11 ogra        if we once have local app support (approximately dapper+1)
                    you will be able to use it
  01:12 spacey      that would be fancy
                    ogra: not that it is necessarily possible, but as a tie in
  01:12 kjcole      to the special needs in education (a.k.a. accessibility)
                    video-based education for deaf students using sign language,
                    would be sweet.  But I'm just fantasizing.
                    ok, so much about the CD ... we'll have a install CD ready
  01:12 ogra        for flight2, i cant promise a liveCD before lamont came back
                    to me ... please start testing
  01:12 ogra        kjcole, as long as the base is not there, i cant do much ...
  01:13 ogra        local apps is not on my list for this release
  01:13 ogra        development in general :
  01:13 ogra        i inspected willow .... anybody know willow ?
  01:13 kjcole      ogra: I wasn't suggesting you create it.  Just tossing an
                    idea out... planting seeds...
  01:13 ogra        (except spacey )
  01:14 spacey      :o
  01:14 ogra        kjcole, lets sit together fr dapper+1 if you have experience
                    in this warea
  01:14 ogra        i think jelkner and flint will do a dapper dance ...... ;)
  01:14 ogra        willow is a content filter app written in pythin ....
  01:14 ogra        python
  01:14 flint       not this early in the morning i won't...
  01:14 kjcole      ogra: that image is just too scary to comtemplate.
  01:14 jelkner     i'm dancing already!
  01:15 ogra        its *not* requiring urllists or filter rules....
  01:15 flint       oh neat!
  === spacey pictures flint dancing
  01:15 mhz         wow
  01:15 ogra        its based on bayesian filtering (similar to spamfilters)
  01:15 kjcole      ogra: re video, no experience. just wishes.
  01:15 flint       where do I find it (imagine Hindernburg landing at Lakehurst
  01:15 ogra        kjcole, feel free to work on it with me anyway ;)
  01:15 highvoltage ogra: is ldap on your list for this release?
  01:15 kjcole      ogra: sure.
  01:15 jelkner     ogra: does that mean we can run it on the server?
  01:16 ogra        i'll package it up as soon as i got time ...
  01:16 spacey      anyway i will look into willow in the next week and see what
                    i can do
  01:16 ogra        it requires some heavy packaging knowledge to get it right
                    since i want a transparent proxy mode by default ...
  01:16 ogra        but
  01:17 ogra        it has a webbased gui i plan to replace with a desktop gui
  01:17 spacey      complete replacement? optional would be nice?
  01:17 ogra        i made some initial work available as bzr archive ... spacey
                    expressed interest to work on it
  01:17 highvoltage nice.
  01:17 spacey      for if you don't run it on the edubuntu machine but on a
  01:18 flint       (Hindenburg landing at Lakehurst NJ := flint dancing for joy
                    over willow :^)
  01:18 ogra        you will be ale to enable the web gui, but i will disable it
                    by default
  === PBurkholder [n=chatzill@c-67-162-138-236.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined
  01:18 ogra        the default conf app will be the desktop gui
  01:18 spacey      ogra, fair enough :)
                    if you want to work on it, please make a bzr branch from my
  01:18 ogra        archive and make your work available in bzr on the web so i
                    can merge it
  01:19 ogra        http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
  01:19 ogra        ^^^ my bzr archives
  01:19 spacey      ok ^_^
  01:19 kjcole      flint: I think for willow, one should "weep" (for joy of
  01:19 flint       spacey, should we consider booting willow on a router as an
                    outboard machine
  01:19 spacey      outboard?
  01:19 ogra        the basic glade gui stuff is done, it would be nice just to
                    port the web gui functions for the backend
  01:20 flint       spacey, later... old idea...
  01:20 spacey      ok
  01:20 ogra        the plan since we still are on a single classroom solution
                    is to run it on the server ...
  === jane_ [n=JaneW@dsl-146-171-180.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined
  01:20 ogra        as transparent proxy, configured to run by default
  01:20 flint       ah, the old python...
  01:21 jane_       for goodness sake why does my line disconnect at 12:00UTC
                    every wednesday....?!!
  01:21 ogra        if and only if it gets ready in time before UVF, i'll try to
                    get it on the CD
  01:21 spacey      i'll give willow a testdrive on friday
  01:21 ogra        else you'll have it in universe to install separately
  01:21 highvoltage JaneW: Telkom
  01:21 JaneW       (sorry about that *again*)
  01:21 ogra        (and if i dont discover bad bugs indeed)
  01:21 kjcole      JaneW: You do seem to come and go a bit...
  01:21 flint       JaneW, do you know how much it costs us to have that done
                    every week?  Tell her guys!
  01:21 JaneW       highvoltage: but it's FINE the rest of the week....
  01:22 ogra        the status of ltsp:
  01:22 ogra        my ldm fixes are submitted to mdz for review, havent heard
                    back yet ....
  01:22 ogra        the multiarch patch Yagisan wrote is integrated and
                    submitted to mdz .... havent heard back either
  01:23 flint       zimmerman just got back from San Francisco...
  === Yagisan hopes that gets merged soon
  01:23 ogra        sound is not submittable integrated yet, my merge bugs for
                    ubuntu currently take most of my dev time ...
  01:24 highvoltage Yagisan: congrats with your boy!
  01:24 ogra        but all my work is available in my bzr archive for
                    inspection, so feel free to bzr get it ;)
  01:24 ogra        (see url above)
  01:24 JaneW       ^^^ +++
  01:24 highvoltage ogra: and swapping over the network?
  01:25 Yagisan     thanks. love to chat about him after meeting
  01:25 ogra        highvoltage, ....
  01:25 flint       Yagisan, Jamie, is there a Jones sub-process?
  01:25 ogra        to answer highvoltage, the specs are at mdz for review as
                    well ...
  01:25 highvoltage ok.
  01:25 ogra        the ThinClientMemoryUsage spec contains the network swap
  01:26 ogra        as soon as its approved, i'll work on integrating that
  01:26 ogra        as well as the FasterBootScpe and the SoundSpec
  01:26 highvoltage nice. it's quite essential, imo.
  01:27 ogra        its already integrated in breezy
  01:27 Yagisan     ogra: how far along is ThinClientMemoryUsage ?
  01:27 ogra        but is not set up ...
  01:27 highvoltage ogra: i didn't know that, let's talk about that later then.
  01:27 ogra        Yagisan, thats last on my priority list, since it depends on
                    other stuff
  01:27 flint       ogra, what about block memory devices?  Sound is optional in
                    a crowded classroom
  01:27 ogra        i.e. the faster boot spec
  01:28 kjcole      flint: especially since they're all listening to their
                    iPod's anyway.
  01:28 flint       kjcole, or talking on their cell phones...
  01:28 ogra        the local device spec is a= not done yet and b) depending on
                    work of others who are very busy currently
  01:28 Yagisan     what has the boot time been reduced to ?
  01:29 ogra        Yagisan, hard to predict, i totally depend on Keybuks fixes
                    of udev that havent hit dapper yet
  01:29 highvoltage ogra: the default edubuntu installer for release, will it
                    use the ncurses d-i or u-e?
  01:29 ogra        currently my thin client here (a very slow one) produces a
                    bootchart with 50seconds
  01:30 highvoltage 50seconds not too bad.
  01:30 ogra        highvoltage, we'll have two ...
  01:30 flint       highvoltage, I thought they used whiptail
  01:30 kjcole      d-i or u-e?
                    also, would multicast tftp help speed the boot process ? It
  01:30 Yagisan     could allow etherboot systems to load the kernel more
  01:30 ogra        the liveCD will have u-e but only install the workstation
  01:30 spacey      kjcole, debian installer or ubuntu-express
  01:30 highvoltage kjcole: debian-installer / ubuntu-express
  01:30 ogra        te install cd will have d-i and install the server
  01:30 highvoltage kjcole: sorry, a bit lazy to type
  01:30 Yagisan     ogra: after meeting - please tel me how to bootchart my
  01:31 ogra        Yagisan, sudo apt-get install bootchart in the chroot ;)
  01:31 ogra        (works only in dapper)
  === Yagisan makes note to backport it
  01:31 kjcole      spacey, highvoltage: That's what I get for being an rpm guy
                    in an obviously deb universe. Thanks.
  01:31 ogra        Yagisan, you cant
  01:31 ogra        it depends on certain features of initramfsafaik
  === highvoltage wonders if we could get the flying penguins thingie in
  ubuntu-express, or something similar, at least
  01:32 ogra        highvoltage, feel free to chat with Kamion about that, i hav
                    no extra dev time for working on express at all
  01:32 highvoltage cool.
  01:32 ogra        ltsp is more important currently
  01:33 highvoltage completely agreed.
                    ok, thats all from my side for now ... if Kamion calls out
  01:33 ogra        for flight 2 tests, please start testing our CD, it should
                    be fine by then ...
  01:33 JaneW       thanks ogra
  01:34 ogra        oh, in a sidenote, the gobby main inclusion report is
                    written and waiting for approval through pitti
  01:34 JaneW       I can;t belive none of my beaurocratic stuff came through
                    int he beginning - maybe there's an admin filter here ;)
  01:34 highvoltage seems like you're way ahead of everyone, ogra.
  01:34 JaneW       ogra: yay :)
  01:34 ogra        as soon as thats done i'll add it to the desktop
  01:34 flint       ogra, thanks for all the hard work, I have been rebuilding
                    my Lab here in Vermont
  01:34 jelkner     ogra: thanks a 10**6!
  01:34 ogra        flint, cool
  01:35 JaneW       ogra: yes well done you have been quietly working away
                    haven't you?
  01:35 ogra        JaneW, yup...
  01:35 spacey      hard worker :)
  01:35 ogra        but my merge bugs take a lot time currently
  01:35 kjcole      ogra: such a busy boy!
  01:35 JaneW       understood
  01:35 ogra        so i cant as much as i would like :)
  01:35 JaneW       ogra: did you have a prepared summary?
  01:35 flint       America interrupted all meaningful work here with
                    Thanksgiving Holiday
  01:35 mhz         ogra: bis from here
  01:35 jelkner     i need to run (students arriving)... same time next week?
  01:36 ogra        JaneW, nope, i'll merge it together from the log ...
  01:36 JaneW       ogra: if so please dump it in a PM for me - if not I'll
                    distill from the logs...
  01:36 highvoltage can we talk about the website?
  01:36 JaneW       highvoltage: yes shoot
  01:36 ogra        after the meeting
  01:36 flint       jelkner, go get 'em tiger!
  01:36 JaneW       ogra: ok
  01:36 mhz         jelkner: did the how to work?
  01:36 JaneW       jelkner: bye, thanks
  01:36 ogra        ciao jelkner
  01:36 kjcole      jelkner: Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel
  01:36 highvoltage ok, let's do the biggest part first.
  01:36 jelkner     mhz: i'll look it over today, and get back to you
  01:36 mhz         ok
  01:37 highvoltage Philip has convinced me that we should use Drupal for CMS on
  01:37 flint       kjcole, Same Chat-Time, Same Chat-Channel :^)
  === PBurkholder_ [n=chatzill@vpn19.ucar.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  01:37 highvoltage the biggest reason not to use it is because it's php based,
                    and that can potentially open security vulnerabilities.
  01:37 highvoltage but ubuntu already uses php for some of the sites.
  01:37 ogra        highvoltage, have fun with weekly php secuity updates ;)
  01:38 Yagisan     s/weekly/daily
  01:38 ogra        heh
  01:38 highvoltage ogra: sure
  01:38 highvoltage ogra: and it also runs alone on the edubuntu server, the
                    risks are quite low, imo.
  01:38 highvoltage hno73 has some great ideas with the wiki.
  01:39 ogra        if you got a security hole and little scriptkiddies put porn
                    on the frontpage .....
                    and while i think it will work perfectly with people
  01:39 highvoltage familiar with wiki's, I don't think it will work well with
                    our target market
  01:39 ogra        :)
  01:39 highvoltage i.e. overworked underpaid teachers
  01:39 highvoltage ogra: i'll know it was you :P
  01:39 ogra        hahaha
  01:39 mhz         highvoltage: has he wikied his ideas? (i'd love to read
  01:39 ogra        i have no clue about php :)
  01:40 highvoltage mhz: yes, he has
  01:40 flint       highvoltage, johnathan, you nailed it with the market
  01:40 mhz         highvoltage: cool
  01:40 highvoltage http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSitePublishingTools
  01:40 ogra        i stay away from it as far as i can... dont fear me... fear
                    20yr younger kids ;)
  01:40 highvoltage http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan
  01:40 highvoltage http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
  01:40 mhz         highvoltage: duh! I wasn't subscribed :(
  01:41 highvoltage ogra: i avoid php too wherever i can, i do think drupal is
                    the best tool for the job though
  01:41 highvoltage flint: ;)
  01:42 JaneW       highvoltage: I have heard good things about it
  01:42 highvoltage drupal will make it easier for us to manage the edubuntu
                    documentation too.
  01:42 highvoltage and for the web team to add content.
  01:42 ogra        highvoltage,
  01:42 mhz         highvoltage: we could have a meeting about moin or something
  01:42 highvoltage wiki makes it easy too, but then we get back to our target
                    market question
  01:43 ogra        you should monitor the above page if you use it
  01:43 mhz         highvoltage: drupal will not make it easier to remember
                    PageNames :(
                    drupal, IIRC also gets grades ffrom the politically
  01:43 kjcole      progressive crowd.  Don't know much about drupal other than
                    a lot of the radical, hippie, Green, etc progressives seem
                    to drift towards it.
  === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63C9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  01:43 spacey      why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
  01:43 mhz         kjcole: that's true and good feature
  === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  01:44 flint       kjcole, takes a hippie to know a hippie! :^)
  01:44 jsgotangco  heya
  01:44 mhz         hey jsgotangco
  01:44 kjcole      flint: Tune in, turn on (your computer), drop out.
  01:45 flint       kjcole, I mean that in the nicest way (damn hippie :^)
  01:45 Yagisan     brb -sending kids^monsters to bed
  01:45 kjcole      jsgotangco: Hiya
  01:46 jsgotangco  are we meeting?
  01:46 mhz         yup
  01:46 flint       indeed
  01:46 kjcole      jsgotangco: yup.
  01:47 jsgotangco  ok
  01:47 highvoltage geez, i must say, i'm a bit torn on this one (usually being
                    a good decision maker)
  01:47 mhz         highvoltage: what decision?
  01:47 spacey      why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
                    drupal will suite our needs very well, but like ogra says,
  01:47 highvoltage we don't want to end up with a site with porn on the front
  01:47 mhz         exactly
  01:47 highvoltage mhz: drupal as CMS for edubuntu
  01:48 mhz         highvoltage: why can't we work closer to Moin wiki devels?
  01:48 ogra        if someone cares for weekly updates of the server drupal is
                    fine ....
  01:48 spacey      its not really straight forwarded if edubuntu has everything
                    completely different from ubuntu?
  01:48 ogra        the thing is that the security stuff requires someone to
                    care for it all the time
  01:48 JaneW       seems to labour intensive
  01:48 mhz         highvoltage: this way we'll include what's missing
  01:48 highvoltage ogra: does the ubuntu-updates cover the security
                    vulnerabilities for php?
  01:48 JaneW       is there another good option?
  === JaneW shudders ... that Kewl next gen thing?
  01:49 ogra        highvoltage, i dont know the priority of drupal here ... but
                    it should, yes
  01:49 mhz         JaneW: sure, MoinMoin :)
  01:49 flint       highvoltage, my favorite dream app is a php interperter
                    running in zope...
  01:49 ogra        JaneW, Kewl is something else ...
  01:49 Yagisan     well, if it isn't in main, someone needs to work full time
                    on keeping it going, and secure
  01:49 ogra        and has no security monitoring at all ...
  01:49 highvoltage so, let's try Drupal, if it gives us problems we change it.
  01:49 JaneW       ogra: from the demo I saw it seemed to have CMS stuff...?
  01:50 highvoltage JaneW, ogra: you fine with that?
  01:50 flint       you have to keep php patched for moodle...
  01:50 JaneW       highvoltage: if you are prepared to own it and keep it up to
                    date and running... ;)
  01:50 Yagisan     does anyone here know how to use Drupal ?
  01:50 ogra        JaneW, yes, but its php based and has no big community yet
                    ... so vulnerabilitys wont be found or known ...
  01:50 ogra        there drupal is the better option
  01:50 mhz         highvoltage: what about the 'scroring' feature of Trac (Trac
                    is based in moin)
  01:50 highvoltage Yagisan: i've used drupal before
  01:50 spacey      what was wrong with moinmoin?
  01:50 JaneW       ogra: ok (for the record I don't like it anyway)
  01:50 ogra        heh
  01:51 JaneW       ogra: I'd rather go with drupal
  01:51 mhz         Yagisan: i tried it twice
  01:51 highvoltage mhz: apparently drupal is quite good at those kind of things
                    Philip talked alot about it. i think he called it taxonomy.
  01:51 mhz         twice =2 diff. sites
  01:51 ogra        JaneW, yes, but highvoltage will have a lot of work through
                    it ...
  01:51 spacey      JaneW, you don't like what?
  01:51 mhz         highvoltage: yup
  01:51 Yagisan     ok - I just don't think you should use anything that you
                    can't administrate
  01:51 JaneW       spacey: KEWL.nextGen
  01:51 mhz         highvoltage: taxonomy could easily be implemented in Moin,
  01:51 ogra        JaneW, if he's fine with potential weekly updates etc, it
                    shouldnt be a problem
  01:52 spacey      right, rings a bell, can't remember, and sounds nasty :P
  01:52 jsgotangco  mhz: let's not be too enthusaistic about Moin
  01:52 jsgotangco  :)
  01:52 mhz         jsgotangco: not possible for me :)
                    JaneW, ogra: we can have it as a non-live site,
  01:52 highvoltage proto.edubuntu.org with a htpassword, and once we're happy
                    with it, it goes live.
  01:52 jsgotangco  mhz: i just find it creepy sometimes
  01:52 JaneW       highvoltage: cool
  01:52 flint       highvoltage, remember how you identify the pioneer, he is
                    the guy with the arrow in his back...
  === JaneW finds moin finctional, but not mindblowing
                    JaneW, my only concern is that it needs someone who
  01:52 ogra        continiously has the time to fix stuff probably on a weekly
  01:52 mhz         highvoltage: jsgotangco: have you ever subscried to a page
                    in Drupal
  === jsgotangco doesn't like Drupal
  01:53 spacey      whats wrong with the stuff which edubuntu uses atm?
                    in the meantime, i'll educate myseld on the common problems
  01:53 highvoltage with drupal, and php, and make sure our system starts out as
                    secure as it can be
  === jsgotangco is *still* a zope person
  === Yagisan is still a plain html person - no sec worries there
  === highvoltage would like to be a zope person
  01:53 JaneW       highvoltage:  would we have a regression path is we change
                    our minds?
  01:53 JaneW       s/is/if
  01:53 flint       jsgotangco, oh thank you for the zope plug, and there is
                    always plone!
  === highvoltage is currently a cgi .py person
  01:54 jsgotangco  flint: including plone of course
  01:54 highvoltage JaneW: we can have 2 backups
  01:54 flint       highvoltage, how external :^)
  === spacey likes dokuwiki ;x
  01:54 JaneW       ok no more free advertising guys :P
  01:54 highvoltage JaneW: we can more or less maintain our current site as a
  01:54 highvoltage and we can copy and paste from the drupal site to a new one,
                    if we want.
                    Haven't personally tried anything but MoinMoin, but I've
  01:54 kjcole      liked being able to understand the source I've looked at and
                    tweak it a bit.  Rare for me.  (Done some of that with
                    Mailman as well.)
  01:54 JaneW       ok, well then lets try and see how it goes, given that you
                    have the time and inclination
  01:54 highvoltage we could also save some pages as .html and link them up, but
                    that's just yucky.
  01:54 highvoltage JaneW: but yes, we can have fallbacks.
  01:55 highvoltage (and we will)
  01:55 JaneW       kjcole: me too, but it seems it's to try and 'technical' for
                    the averegae teacher, from what I hear
  01:55 mhz         kjcole: what can i say? i agree :)
  01:55 jsgotangco  i'll afk for 5 minutes go to rush to the drugstore
  01:55 kjcole      jsgotangco: Zope's a bit heavy for edubuntu, no?
  01:55 jsgotangco  kjcole: pretty much yeah
                    highvoltage, if you were really mad and blind with ambition,
  01:56 flint       you would propose writing a python script which would update
                    the current site to drupal.
  01:56 flint       you need zope if you are running schooltool
  01:56 highvoltage flint: if i were really mand and blind with ambition, i
                    would write a python app that replaces drupal entirely :)
  01:57 ogra        kjcole, why ?
  01:57 spacey      are you mad and blind?
  01:57 flint       highvoltage, excellent point!  i admire the mad.
  01:57 highvoltage spacey: only on wednesdays
                    highvoltage: are you sure that working with Moin devel guys
  01:57 mhz         won't let us have the missing features (still understand
                    which, though)
  01:57 spacey      :)
  01:57 flint       ok sleepy and blind with ambition
  01:57 highvoltage mhz: it will, but at a time price.
                    mhz: hno73 has lots of cool ideas, and have been following
  01:58 highvoltage moinmoin quite extensively, and you can do everything we
                    want to, but not quite yet.
                    ogra: In my limited experience, zope + plone just seemed to
  01:58 kjcole      be "big", whereas moin seemed "small".  No actual empirical
                    evidence (other than watching the install process for both
                    in RHEL3.)
  01:58 highvoltage some of the features take some extra coding, some are still
                    being developed.
  01:59 highvoltage what it comes down to currently, is the usability.
  01:59 highvoltage that's more important to me now that functionality.
  01:59 ogra        kjcole, but zope/ploe is safe ...
  01:59 ogra        *plone
  01:59 spacey      thats what we have now right?
  01:59 highvoltage i think it's better to have less features, but have a system
                    that's easier to use.
  01:59 ogra        kjcole, and requires nearly no admin work after being set up
  01:59 highvoltage spacey: ubuntu is partially plone
                    highvoltage: the only features I understand Drupal have over
  02:00 mhz         Moin is Forum, Voting, and Polls. The rest I think are all
                    implementavle. But IMHO, drupal has less total features than
  02:00 JaneW       ok time's up, and we only discussed technical and webiste...
  02:00 JaneW       was there anything else?
  02:00 highvoltage can we have more time?
                    personally i don't like plone, but i do think it is quite
  02:00 spacey      nice to have the same system as ubuntu, not to confuse
                    endusers with different systems
  02:00 JaneW       what happened in the ally meeting last week?
  02:00 flint       JaneW, I agree enough about the factory back to the product
  === PBurkholder__ [n=chatzill@vpn2.ucar.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
  === PBurkholder__ is now known as PBurkholder
  02:00 mhz         highvoltage: good point usability v/s funcioanlity
                    ogra: Safe is good. ;-) But after setting up both, I found
  02:01 kjcole      myself regularly updating my Moin pages, and fearing
                    Zope/Plone.  Three books on Zope, and no books on Moin.
  02:01 JaneW       highvoltage: sure, thing is I have a commitment at 15:10
                    each day, so the meetings need to be pretty punctual
  02:01 kjcole      `
  02:01 highvoltage okay, for those interested, please join the web team on
  02:01 highvoltage https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website
  02:01 JaneW       please guys feel free to update the tables in
  02:01 flint       JaneW, why so obsessive about lunch?
  02:01 JaneW       even if we don;t get to discussing the stuff it can still be
                    in the status reprts
  02:01 kjcole      ogra: (I mean I have three books on Zope, and no books on
                    Moin).  So from a non-techie point of view...
                    also, from the TSF side, i'm working on some documentation
  02:02 highvoltage for Edubuntu for our Edubuntu roll-out in April/June next
  02:02 ogra        in a sidenote, edubuntu has a booth, a installtion workshop
                    and i'll hold a talk at the linuxtag essen on saturday ...
  02:02 spacey      you should make it a subteam of edubuntu
  02:02 JaneW       flint: heh, no it's my turn to fetch kids :P
  02:02 mhz         JaneW: i'll reply to patrizzio
  02:02 flint       I want to beg forgiveness for not doing any documentation...
                    I am a bad man!
  02:02 highvoltage i will be putting this up to our website too, if you want to
                    get involved there,
  02:02 JaneW       mhz: thank you
  02:02 highvoltage be sure to join the doc group on launchpad too
  02:02 kjcole      Speaking of documentation.
  02:02 JaneW       flint: not good enough :P
  02:02 highvoltage https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-doc
  02:03 flint       JaneW, do not eat your kids even if you are in africa, they
                    frown on canabalisim... :^)
  02:03 mhz         JaneW: jdub edubuntu-es ML answer should be in my inbox, I
                    guess, by no later than tomorrow (hopefully)
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  02:03 highvoltage flint: JaneW and I are African. we should know, shouldn't
  02:03 mhz         JaneW: I have created 2 teams in LP (EdubuntuChile and
  02:04 jsgotangco  please add me
  02:04 jsgotangco  :)
  02:04 JaneW       flint: but they are so tasty!
  02:04 flint       JaneW, I am certain that they are good enough to eat
                    Yagisan: there's also an ltsp group:
  02:04 highvoltage https://launchpad.net/people/ltspubuntu i haven't seen you
                    there yet
                    Jelkner and I met Sunday, and started shreding our way
  02:04 kjcole      through the tuxLab cookbook.  The bzr branch is up on
                    Launchpad now, but this morning jelkner said "Let's not do
                    this docbook stuff. Let's do lore."
  02:04 highvoltage i can keep further info for next meeting.
  02:04 mhz         highvoltage: I'd be glad to jump in in that Edubuntu doc
  02:04 kjcole      He's very into lore.
  02:05 jsgotangco  kjcole: please write as you will, I can easily move to
                    docbook as needed
  02:05 highvoltage mhz: excellent :) we'll manage that through our new drupal
                    site, the proto site should be up within the next week
  02:05 jsgotangco  just focus on content
  02:05 flint       kjcole, openoffice 2.0 outputs docbook as a save option...
  02:05 jsgotangco  flint: not good enough
  02:05 jsgotangco  i'd rather have you guys write in ODF
  02:06 highvoltage jsgotangco: do you prefer ODF?
  02:06 jsgotangco  and i'll slave on the actual code transformation
  02:06 mhz         highvoltage: grrrr, okis I'l try to be objective (very
                    difficult :D )
  02:06 jsgotangco  highvoltage: flexible enough to move to other formats
  === highvoltage didn't realise that
  02:06 JaneW       ok, it;s going to be very hard for me to document this weeks
  02:06 JaneW       are we agreed that we'll TRY drupal?
                    jsgotangco: Since I have the docbook and reST sources
                    already, (for tuxLab Cookbook) and that's what we're basing
  02:06 kjcole      off of, it seemed easier to edit the existing, rather than
                    convert, but I'm not particularly committed to any
                    particular method.
  02:06 highvoltage JaneW: yes
  02:07 JaneW       and all accountability and responsibility for it is on
                    highvoltage (no pressure) ;)
  02:07 mhz         JaneW: hmm, yes
  02:07 highvoltage JaneW: we will install it on a prototype platform, and put
                    in content and evaluate how it works for us
  02:07 JaneW       cool, works for me
  02:07 jsgotangco  kjcole: let's focus on content first, the coding would be
  02:07 highvoltage JaneW: then, if we're happy that it covers our old site, we
                    move across to the drupal site for our main site
  02:07 jsgotangco  *trust me*
  02:07 kjcole      jsgotangco: Fine by me.
  02:07 highvoltage jsgotangco: i have a policy to never trust anyone who says
                    "trust me"
  02:08 jsgotangco  highvoltage: lol ok i take that as a compliment
  02:08 jsgotangco  :D
  02:08 highvoltage JaneW: meeting notes better?
  02:08 kjcole      In any case, we made good progress, hand-editing
                    hard-copies, and trimmed quite a bit.
                    JaneW: yesterday night, I mentioned to Seveas that not
  02:08 mhz         having edubuntu-es or anything regarding ubuntu, may cause
                    newcomers a little problem IF we find no proper conduct in
                    there (we can't slap or kick)
  === JaneW must go back in 30 mins or so
                    JaneW: so I'll ping him on friday if the person who
  02:09 mhz         registered edubunt-es doesn't show up, and Seveas is working
                    on some 'guidlines'
  02:09 JaneW       mhz: I'll pick up in #edubuntu when I return ok?
  02:09 mhz         okis
  02:09 ogra        mhz, we normally dont slap or kick people ...
  02:10 flint       highvoltage, my feeling about drupal  is "once a
                    philosopher, twice a pervert"  what can it hurt to try...
  02:10 JaneW       mhz: sounds like you need a CoC
  02:10 mhz         ogra: hehehe, you know what i mean
  02:10 mhz         CoC?
  02:10 ogra        mhz, first target is to convince by talking ...
  02:10 highvoltage flint: naked people is part of ubuntu's heritage
  02:10 flint       JaneW, enjoy the kidos i'm for coffee for 5 minutes...
  02:10 mhz         ogra: sure, that's why i said IF
  02:10 JaneW       flint: k, send me pics of yours!
                    mhz and another fellow (toxictoadz) have joined the Edubuntu
  02:10 kjcole      Cookbook Cooks, and I'm probably looking at them for
                    translation work...
  02:10 ogra        mhz, we kicked exactly one troll in #edubuntu it its whole
                    existance .... after trying to convince 2 weeks
  02:10 kjcole      mhz, yes?
  02:11 highvoltage wow, not bad.
  02:11 mhz         ogra: really? who?
  02:11 highvoltage bill gates? he's been trolling a lot lately.
  02:11 Seveas      ghe, in #ubuntu the kick rate is somewhat highrt :)
  02:11 mhz         kjcole: sorry, lost me... what?
  02:11 jsgotangco  i remember that....
  02:11 ogra        mhz, kicking should be the very last resort ... and you
                    should be able to contact the owner within this timeframe
  02:11 flint       I was hoping to be elected troll...
  02:12 ogra        mhz, she was called JenniferX
  02:12 mhz         ogra: indeed
  02:12 highvoltage meeting finished?
  02:12 flint       I am a troll befor coffee. back in 5
  02:12 ogra        meeting finished !
  02:12 spacey      ok:)
  02:12 ogra        thanks all

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2005-11-30 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:50:45 by 95)