(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting December 21, 2005

12:59 kjcole      Hiya all...
=== flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:00 Yagisan     G'day kjcole
01:00 lucasvo     hi kjcole
01:00 flint       morning kevin!!
01:01 lucasvo     kjcole: I managed to checkout the cookbook
01:01 lucasvo     kjcole: is there any roadmap/ todo list?
01:02 kjcole      Morning, Mr. Flint, Did you get that grant notification from Community of Science?
01:02 JaneW       hi all
01:03 flint       kjcole, did i mention how much it sucks to be old enough to be called Mr. Flint?  BTW
                  what grant notification?
01:03 kjcole      Lucasvo, Not yet, but it sounds like a good idea.  We're basically making a pass thru
                  to eliminate unwanted stuff first then a second pass to figure out what to add.
01:03 JaneW       sorry about missing last week, things have been hectic and I felt really ill  etc
01:03 flint       morning jane how you feel?
01:03 Forth       hi Mr. Flint
01:03 ogra        yeah, sorry for not putting up the notes yet ...
01:03 ogra        i lag a bit with my paperwork
01:04 flint       Forth, that was harsh, try flint...morning ollie!
01:04 JaneW       flint: much better today, but ready for a VAC!
01:04 kjcole      Flint, I sent something your way last saturday or sunday: someone's offering money for
                  "computers and software that will close the digital divide in education..."
01:05 flint       JaneW, it is a balmy -3 F here in Montpelier, Vermont...
01:05 JaneW       sucks2Bme, peak of summer holidays here and I still working
01:05 JaneW       flint: luverly!
01:05 JaneW       ok let's hit it?
01:05 kjcole      Flint, brisk..
01:05 flint       kjcole, i will check, please send again...
01:05 ogra        yup
=== jelkner [n=jelkner@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:05 ogra        my update is quick today ....
01:06 ogra        most of my worktime was spent for
                  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html last week
01:06 ogra        but i started to work on the low memory spec (which includes the fix for powerpc
                  installs to finally work)
01:06 kjcole      flint, it's one of those things that only allows you to send form mail, so it may not
                  look like it's from me, but trust it.  Community of Science.
01:06 ogra        thats al from the tech side ....
01:06 kjcole      And, g'morning JaneW.
01:06 flint       kjcole, gotcha...
01:07 JaneW       hi kjcole
01:07 jelkner     kjcole: did we do documentation report yet?
01:07 Yagisan     ogra: so currently it still uses the same amount of ram as breezys ?
01:07 JaneW       oli: wow that was quick
=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:07 jelkner     quick is good
01:07 kjcole      jelkner, no.
01:07 ogra        Yagisan, yup
01:08 Yagisan     ogra: so still a tight fit on 64mb boxes
01:08 JaneW       ooh I am lagging on the list mails we have a flight 2?
01:08 ogra        my next upload will include the change to drop the linux-restricted-modules package
                  from the thin client
01:08 JaneW       ogra: and LiveCD?
01:08 ogra        which will gain about 10-15 MB
01:08 ogra        JaneW, is fine
01:08 ogra        see the announceent :)
=== JaneW is trying to speed read
01:08 JaneW       YAY
01:09 Yagisan     other then myself and ogra, has anyone tested multi-arch out ?
=== JaneW hugs ogra
01:09 JaneW       you been stealthy ;)
01:09 JaneW       well done !
01:09 ogra        i was busy :)
01:09 JaneW       mdz will be impressed (I hope)
=== lucasvo_ [n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:09 ogra        Yagisan, i tested it several times ... but i'd like to enhance it for ppc on
                  amd64/i386, any input welcome
01:10 Yagisan     ogra: I'm still think about using qemu for that
=== lucasvo_ is now known as lucasvo
01:10 flint       ogra, damn...I expect to begin testing here and I will rely on this page from you.
01:11 ogra        flint, jelkner has alreaedy beaten you :) got my first bug reports ;)
01:11 Yagisan     ogra: first I'll fix my fstab issues, send patch, then investigate how to get that
                  going. should qemu work
01:11 Yagisan     ogra: I'll need some people with real powerpc boxes to test the clients
01:11 ogra        i'm not sure, i have no quemu experience at all... i use real HW
01:11 flint       ogra, ollie, elkner is a whiner, of course he would file the first bugs...
01:11 lucasvo     Yagisan: I have a iBook
01:11 ogra        flint, he didnt file ;) he reported live :)
01:12 flint       ogra, thus proving my point :^)
01:12 ogra        heh
01:13 flint       Yagisan, will a mac do as a power pc platform?
01:13 ogra        yup
01:13 Yagisan     it should
01:13 ogra        its the only thing i'll test here ...
01:13 Yagisan     first I need the unpack to go succesfully
01:13 ogra        unless someone donates me a netvista thin client :)
01:14 flint       A lot of my stuff is still in storage, but I may have an angle here...Elkner what about
01:14 Yagisan     I had that partially working around the time of breezys release, but I haven't picked
                  it up since then
01:14 kjcole      Flint, Shapiro?  Or another Phil?
01:15 Yagisan     the issue I had was that qemu would run simple stuff like ls, dmesg but it died on
                  bash, and the install failed (amd64 host)
01:15 flint       kjcole, yes indeed Phil Shapiro.  He has truckloads of G3's and maybe a few G5's
01:17 jelkner     yes he does
01:17 jelkner     and i'm sure he would like to help
01:18 jelkner     i only have about 12 minutes before students arrive, are we going to talk about docs?
01:18 ogra        for now the ltsp install on ppc is still borked ... so yu guys have some time until my
                  next upload arrives ;)
01:18 ogra        i'm done as i said ...
01:19 JaneW       are we done with tech stuff?
01:19 JaneW       snap
01:19 ogra        :)
01:19 JaneW       good progress
01:19 ogra        mostly CD testing ... it eats a lot of time ...
01:19 JaneW       ogra: so is everything looking like smooth sailing to dapper?
01:19 lucasvo     Yagisan: you are interested in testing ppc clients?
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:19 ogra        JaneW, yup
01:19 JaneW       ogra: excellent
01:19 JaneW       ogra: and local devices, think there's a chance it will get sorted?
01:20 ogra        JaneW, and i even got granted the right to upload myself while mdz is away ;)
01:20 JaneW       ogra: cool, sneak stuff through... ;)
01:20 JaneW       I never said that!
01:20 Yagisan     lucasvo: yes - but I'm in Sydney
01:20 ogra        there is still a meeting pending... i'll have to wait for mdz, but i'll start testing
01:20 JaneW       nod
01:20 JaneW       ok documentation ->
01:20 lucasvo     Yagisan: ssh isn't enough?
01:20 ogra        sound is also awaiting his approval
01:21 flint       JaneW, wait a minute i have to pick at a very important scab...
01:21 Yagisan     lucasvo: I'd need a loaner for some testing
01:21 JaneW       flint: you are incorigable!
01:21 Yagisan     lucasvo: anyway - I'll let you know if/when I have something ready to test
01:21 JaneW       (and I can't spell)
01:21 flint       ogra, elkner says it will not be very dapper without local storage...
01:22 Yagisan     flint: but ducks only have a limited amount of local storage anyway ...
01:22 ogra        flint, the spec was always low/mid prio ...
01:22 ogra        i have to care for the high priority stuff first ...
01:23 ogra        and for the blocker bugs ...
01:23 jelkner     flint: you were not available
01:24 Yagisan     ogra: priority 1 - does it start, priority 2 - no BSOD :)
01:24 jelkner     limited is ok, but we *some*
01:24 ogra        flint, the other specs are likely to be implemented before edn of the year (at least
                  locally) so i can spend the rest of my time on local devices ...
01:24 flint       Yagisan, what is this a "flap" about storage?
01:25 jelkner     ogra: great news!
01:25 ogra        but still n promises ...
01:25 flint       that would be sweet ollie! i would love to help...
01:26 JaneW       flint: what about the scab...?
01:26 JaneW       flint is Gold Memeber!
01:26 flint       that is the itch!
01:27 flint       I would not want a duck with an itch...
01:27 flint       on to the docs...
                  Meanwhile... Docs: We are getting more and more requests from folks wanting to help
01:27 kjcole      with the cookbook... which, while appreciated, I'm not sure we're ready for.  One thing
                  is that I think some are still thinking "wiki" while we're thinking "PDF" and "HTML".
01:28 jelkner     besides, too many cooks spoil the cookbook
01:28 kjcole      lucasvo asked a few minutes ago if we had a roadmap...  I guess the tuxlab table of
                  contents is the closest approximation of a roadmap, such as it is.
01:28 jelkner     things work well with a small group of folks who can work closely together
01:29 irvin       the cookbook will be dapper-specific or will it include stuff from breezy?
01:29 jelkner     but to maintain a consistent style and a well organized book, you really need just a
                  few people
01:29 ogra        it will be dapper and +
01:29 jelkner     ogra: we will need your help
=== Kmirno_AWAY is now known as Mirno
01:29 ogra        jelkner, for ?
01:30 jelkner     we have what was a chapter (which we are making an appendix) which describes the boot
                  process in low level detail
01:30 ogra        tech stuff ?
01:30 jelkner     yup
01:30 jelkner     it will be a great appendix
01:30 ogra        fine with me
01:30 jelkner     the current version describes ltsp
01:30 flint       I will make myself available for bad prose and puns....
01:30 ogra        so we have a 20 page cookbook and a 100 page appendix ?
01:30 irvin       haha
01:30 jelkner     and since edubuntu is different, kevin and i will need your help
01:30 ogra        :)
01:30 lucasvo     a list of who is working on what would be gooda as well.
01:30 flint       and 300 pages of bug reports...
01:31 jelkner     kevin said he would get in touch with you about that
01:31 ogra        the basics of the bootprocess are the same ...
01:31 kjcole      ogra, We're now in chapter 6, and an appendix.  The LTSP description in tuxLab goes
                  into deep detail, which I gather, is wong.
01:31 jelkner     you'll see when we send you the draft
01:31 jelkner     a lot is different
01:31 kjcole      jelkner, my bad.
01:31 ogra        yup, i'll check out bzr ...
01:31 flint       actually, are there any diagrams?
01:31 jelkner     no
01:31 jelkner     we could use some
01:32 flint       I love diagrams, elkner knows from his system descriptions how much I like diagrams.
01:33 jelkner     step on is to get the current edited version of the appendix to ogra
01:33 jelkner     (kjcole will do that)
01:33 JaneW       jelkner: it makes sense to keep the group containable and functional then, if you can
                  manage the load...
01:33 jelkner     then after ogra fixes it, we can talk to flint about adding a diagram
01:33 JaneW       diagrams are great, the more the better IMO
01:33 ogra        yup
01:33 JaneW       makes it more interesting and accessable
01:33 jelkner     JaneW: yes, jane
01:33 jelkner     that is the only way to do it
01:34 kjcole      ogra, expect that from me a bit later today.
01:34 ogra        yup
01:34 jelkner     since it is free content, folks can make whatever changes they want after we have a go
                  at it
01:35 jelkner     i guess that's it for the book
01:35 lucasvo     I would like to have some list of who is doing what for the cookbook.
01:35 kjcole      The face-to-face meetings really help.  (As nice as IRC and gobby are, they're no
                  substitute for simultaneously reading text aloud.)
01:36 lucasvo     Because I don't have a clue who is doing what.
01:36 lucasvo     kjcole: where do you live :D
01:36 jelkner     luscasva: kevin and i are editing the first draft
01:36 jelkner     that's about it
01:36 flint       kjcole, elkner are skype-ing at this meeting.  I highly recommend this communication
                  channel to all...
01:36 ogra        lucasvo, > than 8h away from you
01:36 ogra        (with a plane ;) )
01:36 lucasvo     skype doesn't work on my box
01:37 flint       lucasvo, it took a lot of doing to get skype working under breezy...
01:37 kjcole      lucasvo, just ignore flint. ;-)
01:38 ogra        complain at skype, its closed source stuff, we cant do much about it ...
01:38 lucasvo     yeah, thats why we should use gnome-meeting
01:38 ogra        yup
01:39 lucasvo     but that doesn't work on my machine, because I have blocked UDP
01:40 flint       lucasvo, indeed, that is why stoom or gizmo might be a better fit.  funcitonally it is
                  really quite nice..
01:42 jelkner     lucasvo: are you trying to get involved in the book?
01:42 lucasvo     jelkner: yes
01:42 jelkner     ok, here is what we should do:
                  lucasvo, essentially, we're going through the tuxLab Cookbook, in order.  Much of it is
01:43 kjcole      well-written, and just has parts which need to be eliminated.   And now we're finally
                  getting into specific differences like the LTSP boot process, which need to be
01:43 jelkner     kevin and i are meeting next on jan 7 (sunday
01:43 jelkner     )
01:43 jelkner     could you join us remotely then?
01:43 jelkner     10 am EST
01:43 kjcole      Eastern Standard (UTC - 5:00)
01:43 flint       what a civilized hour to meet :^)
01:44 jelkner     send us your email jeff@elkner.net
01:44 jelkner     and we will get you the latest source before then
=== kjcole is kjcole@gri.gallaudet.edu
01:44 lucasvo     jelkner: 5 am in the morning?
01:44 jelkner     well, we start then
01:44 jelkner     and work until about 4 pm
01:44 flint       lucasvo, I take it you are in "la bella italia"?
01:44 jelkner     so you could join us later
01:44 kjcole      luasvo: EST = UTC -5:00
01:45 lucasvo     flint: no, switzerlad
01:45 kjcole      lucasvo, So, 10:00 EST... You do the math for where you are.
01:45 flint       lucasvo, a thousand pardons...
01:45 lucasvo     it is 4 in the morning for me
01:46 jelkner     anyway, our next work session is jan 7
01:46 jelkner     we *start* at 4
01:46 jelkner     and work until 10 your time
01:46 irvin       kjcole, jelkner can i join in too?
01:46 ogra        lucasvo, 5:00 UTC is 6am in europe
01:46 jelkner     what is the earliest you can jolin us?
01:46 kjcole      Lucasvo: That can't be right...  10:00 EST should be 3:00 PM EST, if I'm not mistaken.
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:46 kjcole      s /3:00 EST/ 3:00 UTC/
01:46 flint       lucasvo, these people are like dairy farmers and the documentation is like a milk cow
01:47 JaneW       Our next meeting is Jan 11
01:47 jelkner     irvin: send me an email: jeff@elkner.net
01:47 lucasvo     jelkner: should I join the team?
01:47 jelkner     so i can plan with you how to get something going
01:47 lucasvo     jelkner: launchpad.com/people/lucasvo
01:47 jelkner     sure
01:47 jelkner     kevin set that up
01:47 jelkner     i don't know concretely what it means yet
01:47 jelkner     kevin?
01:48 jelkner     s/jan 11/jan 7
01:48 jelkner     oops
01:48 kjcole      jelkner, not a whole lot.  ;-)  It's currently just a list of interested parties.
01:48 ogra        JaneW, why dont we do one on jan 4th ?
01:49 jelkner     ok, so folks can join it if they wish, but send me an email if you want to be included
                  in the planning
01:49 irvin       thanks jelkner
01:50 JaneW       ogra: you can, but I will be on leave (and camping, so not available at all)
01:50 kjcole      Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you, which is more like a
                  way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the launchpad team.
01:50 ogra        there were several -fr people asking for a possibility to translate, since they are
                  subscribed to the ML, could you CC the ml for planning ?
01:50 jelkner     ok, that about does it
01:50 jelkner     ogra: ok, another issue
01:51 jelkner     not a good idea yet
01:51 flint       kjcole, for instance lucasvo, kevin would never approve me... :^(
01:51 kjcole      jelkner, launchpad, bzr, web space?
01:51 ogra        jelkner, why ?
01:51 jelkner     they would be translating a *very* moving target
01:51 jelkner     think how much work that would be
01:51 lucasvo     kjcole: I don't understand what you want to say
01:51 ogra        as early as possible  i would think
01:51 flint       kjcole, how is your experience with bzr?
01:52 ogra        jelkner, my prob is that they start to develop totally independent documentation that i
                  cant ever check (my french sucks)
01:52 jelkner     ogra: yes, but that is the only way that makes sense
01:52 ogra        so knowing they use our upstream source will give some safety about the correctnees of
                  the content
01:52 jelkner     the book is a global thing
01:52 kjcole      lucasvo, regarding what?
                  13:50 < kjcole> Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you,
01:53 lucasvo     which is more like a way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the
                  launchpad team.
01:53 jelkner     when editing chapter x, we find that a change in chapter x - 5 will help clarify things
01:53 jelkner     so the whole book is constantly changing
01:53 jelkner     if they start translating now
01:53 ogra        then they have to change it as well
01:53 jelkner     they would have to do it all again each week
01:53 jelkner     a *lot* of work
01:53 flint       ogra, the only thing to rely on is the outline/TOC... and even that remains in flux
01:53 ogra        my concern is that they already do stuff and that some of it is really wrong ...
                  Lucasvo, you asked if you should "join the team".  I've set up a team on Launchpad, but
01:54 kjcole      it is restricted so that I get e-mail when someone adds themselves to the team.  Their
                  membership waits until I approve it.
01:54 ogra        additionally they developed a broken liveCD and people come to us, asking about fixes
                  for example ...
01:54 kjcole      Lucasvo, Unless it's flint, I approve them.
01:54 ogra        i want coordination, as much as possible ...
01:55 lucasvo     kjcole: aha, yes
01:55 flint       kjcole, power corrupts...
01:55 jelkner     ogra: i can coordinate the english version of the book
01:55 jelkner     i would encourgage translators to wait
01:55 ogra        jelkner, we need to coordinate beyond language borders, thats why i ask you to make the
                  coordination public to all ...
01:55 jelkner     unless you have enough of a team for an independent effort in another language
01:56 jelkner     ogra: keep in mind, you can't write a book with dozens of contributors
01:56 ogra        ...thats why i ask to CC the mailing lis in your coordination discussions
01:56 jelkner     it won't work
                  Ogra, most of what we're doing so far isn't very technical, and is general enough to
01:56 kjcole      still be right: "What is an Operating System?"  "What is a Network"  "Why is Open
                  Source a 'good thing'?"
01:57 lucasvo     launchpad.net - not found...
01:57 jelkner     it would be hugely helpful if we could get our work into bzr
01:57 jelkner     then folks could just grab it and look at it
01:57 ogra        jelkner, i just want you to make it public, i didnt say "acceppt 100 contributors"
01:57 lucasvo     jelkner: what's the bzr kjcole has?
01:57 ogra        they should just know whats going on
01:57 jelkner     it is on a local machine he set up
01:58 jelkner     it would be much better to have it on launchpad
01:58 ogra        it will, if launchpad is ready
01:58 jelkner     agian, we are stuck trying to learn to setup bzr, instead of focusing on writing the
01:58 ogra        the bzr archive is fine ...
01:58 ogra        whats the prob ?
01:58 flint       kevin, where is version control?
01:59 jelkner     we can't commit
01:59 kjcole      lucasvo, he meant launchpad, not bzr.
01:59 ogra        you dont commit on the server ....
01:59 flint       sounds like guy thing...
01:59 kjcole      ogra, he meant push.
01:59 ogra        you make a local branch and commit there ...
02:00 ogra        and i still would suggest to leave the merging in one hand ... dont do all pushes to
                  one source ...
02:00 flint       we have a big bzr understanding problem
02:00 lucasvo     can you reach launchpad?
02:00 ogra        have one guy managing the merges of the branches
02:00 ogra        how i work with mdz:
02:00 flint       next week documentation time is about using bzr ok?  jane back me up!
02:00 ogra        he has the master branch online ....
02:01 ogra        i pull it locally, make my changes and commit ....
02:01 JaneW       flint: knock yourself out
02:01 jelkner     ok all, i need to go
02:01 JaneW       on your own
02:01 lucasvo     jelkner: I will contact you..
02:01 ogra        then i push it up to my own server ...
02:01 flint       kevin can you confirm that you have the master branch online
02:01 jelkner     students arriving...
02:01 JaneW       no meeting next week :P
02:01 lucasvo     jelkner: are you in the launchpad team?
02:01 ogra        and he does the merging
02:01 jelkner     great
02:01 lucasvo     jelkner: bye
02:01 flint       JaneW, yea I have done that before...
02:01 jelkner     bye
02:01 JaneW       the next meeting is in 3 weeks time, and an unofficial one in 2 weeks
02:01 flint       ok then week after all about bzr...
02:01 lucasvo     JaneW: what time?
02:02 JaneW       I am off for 2 weeks from friday WOOHOO
02:02 ogra        lucasvo, as usual
02:02 flint       JaneW, we need meeting time about use of bzr to go forward.
02:02 lucasvo     ah, ok
02:02 JaneW       first real leave since April 2004, cept for a long week end or 2
02:02 ogra        flint, yes, but you can come to #edubuntu and we do it there ... informal ...
02:02 JaneW       flint: you are welcome to have one anytime, even next week or the week after
                  flint, the master branch (root?) is on my machine.  Launchpad points to it.  However,
02:03 kjcole      it was intended to be there til moved to somewhere more official like Launchpad
                  itself.  (Ogra tells me the launchpad super-mirror isn't ready for prime-time yet.)
02:03 JaneW       lucasvo: always the same time 12:00 UTC
02:03 flint       fine we will be there during the meeting on Sunday... will you be fresh and rested?
02:03 lucasvo     JaneW: ok, even if it is unofficial
02:03 JaneW       sunday
02:03 JaneW       lucasvo: well I won;t be here, I guess those that are around will meet the normal time?
02:03 lucasvo     ah, ok
02:04 lucasvo     I can't reach launchpad
02:04 kjcole      flint, one reason push/merge/whatever doesn't fly yet is because I didn't want to open
                  up my little machine for "write access".  But pull works...
02:04 JaneW       I seriously need some afk time and will even shut*my*laptop*down *gaspe*!
02:04 flint       ogra, you likely need to teach kevin and kevin can then torture me with his superior
02:04 irvin       just leave the schedule on the fridge :)
02:04 JaneW       it is on the fridge
02:04 ogra        flint, in short its working how i described above ...
02:04 Yagisan     JaneW: you turn off you laptop ?????
02:05 JaneW       Yagisan: no but on Friday I am going to
02:05 ogra        flint, everybody puts his branch online and doe his commits there... one merge master
                  reviews and merges the work of the others in the main branch
02:05 JaneW       we'll how see how long I last before turning it on again ;)
02:05 ogra        flint, no magic involved
02:06 flint       ogra, lemme attack this issue.   I see a problem to work on.
02:06 kjcole      lucasvo, I'm thinking you've got network problems: First the bzr branch giving you
                  troubles now launchpad.net...
02:06 flint       elkner ment Sunday January 8th note the date!!!
02:06 lucasvo     kjcole: atm I am in school with completely other net
02:07 lucasvo     ah, maybe it is because I don't have https proxy
02:07 kjcole      lucasvo, well that blows that theory.  Wrong me.
02:07 ogra        flint, if the supermirror exists, you'll have your branch attached to your account on
                  launchpad and the merge master will be able to merge stuff *on* launchpad
02:07 JaneW       ok time is def up, let's move to #edubuntu?

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2005-12-21 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:55:38 by 95)