This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting December 21, 2005
12:59 kjcole Hiya all... === flint [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:00 Yagisan G'day kjcole 01:00 lucasvo hi kjcole 01:00 flint morning kevin!! 01:01 lucasvo kjcole: I managed to checkout the cookbook 01:01 lucasvo kjcole: is there any roadmap/ todo list? 01:02 kjcole Morning, Mr. Flint, Did you get that grant notification from Community of Science? 01:02 JaneW hi all 01:03 flint kjcole, did i mention how much it sucks to be old enough to be called Mr. Flint? BTW what grant notification? 01:03 kjcole Lucasvo, Not yet, but it sounds like a good idea. We're basically making a pass thru to eliminate unwanted stuff first then a second pass to figure out what to add. 01:03 JaneW sorry about missing last week, things have been hectic and I felt really ill etc 01:03 flint morning jane how you feel? 01:03 Forth hi Mr. Flint 01:03 ogra yeah, sorry for not putting up the notes yet ... 01:03 ogra i lag a bit with my paperwork 01:04 flint Forth, that was harsh, try flint...morning ollie! 01:04 JaneW flint: much better today, but ready for a VAC! 01:04 kjcole Flint, I sent something your way last saturday or sunday: someone's offering money for "computers and software that will close the digital divide in education..." 01:05 flint JaneW, it is a balmy -3 F here in Montpelier, Vermont... 01:05 JaneW sucks2Bme, peak of summer holidays here and I still working 01:05 JaneW flint: luverly! 01:05 JaneW ok let's hit it? 01:05 kjcole Flint, brisk.. 01:05 flint kjcole, i will check, please send again... 01:05 ogra yup === jelkner [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:05 ogra my update is quick today .... 01:06 ogra most of my worktime was spent for http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html last week 01:06 ogra but i started to work on the low memory spec (which includes the fix for powerpc installs to finally work) 01:06 kjcole flint, it's one of those things that only allows you to send form mail, so it may not look like it's from me, but trust it. Community of Science. 01:06 ogra thats al from the tech side .... 01:06 kjcole And, g'morning JaneW. 01:06 flint kjcole, gotcha... 01:07 JaneW hi kjcole 01:07 jelkner kjcole: did we do documentation report yet? 01:07 Yagisan ogra: so currently it still uses the same amount of ram as breezys ? 01:07 JaneW oli: wow that was quick === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:07 jelkner quick is good 01:07 kjcole jelkner, no. 01:07 ogra Yagisan, yup 01:08 Yagisan ogra: so still a tight fit on 64mb boxes 01:08 JaneW ooh I am lagging on the list mails we have a flight 2? 01:08 ogra my next upload will include the change to drop the linux-restricted-modules package from the thin client 01:08 JaneW ogra: and LiveCD? 01:08 ogra which will gain about 10-15 MB 01:08 ogra JaneW, is fine 01:08 ogra see the announceent :) === JaneW is trying to speed read 01:08 JaneW YAY 01:09 Yagisan other then myself and ogra, has anyone tested multi-arch out ? === JaneW hugs ogra 01:09 JaneW you been stealthy ;) 01:09 JaneW well done ! 01:09 ogra i was busy :) 01:09 JaneW mdz will be impressed (I hope) === lucasvo_ [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:09 ogra Yagisan, i tested it several times ... but i'd like to enhance it for ppc on amd64/i386, any input welcome 01:10 Yagisan ogra: I'm still think about using qemu for that === lucasvo_ is now known as lucasvo 01:10 flint ogra, damn...I expect to begin testing here and I will rely on this page from you. 01:11 ogra flint, jelkner has alreaedy beaten you :) got my first bug reports ;) 01:11 Yagisan ogra: first I'll fix my fstab issues, send patch, then investigate how to get that going. should qemu work 01:11 Yagisan ogra: I'll need some people with real powerpc boxes to test the clients 01:11 ogra i'm not sure, i have no quemu experience at all... i use real HW 01:11 flint ogra, ollie, elkner is a whiner, of course he would file the first bugs... 01:11 lucasvo Yagisan: I have a iBook 01:11 ogra flint, he didnt file ;) he reported live :) 01:12 flint ogra, thus proving my point :^) 01:12 ogra heh 01:13 flint Yagisan, will a mac do as a power pc platform? 01:13 ogra yup 01:13 Yagisan it should 01:13 ogra its the only thing i'll test here ... 01:13 Yagisan first I need the unpack to go succesfully 01:13 ogra unless someone donates me a netvista thin client :) 01:14 flint A lot of my stuff is still in storage, but I may have an angle here...Elkner what about Phil? 01:14 Yagisan I had that partially working around the time of breezys release, but I haven't picked it up since then 01:14 kjcole Flint, Shapiro? Or another Phil? 01:15 Yagisan the issue I had was that qemu would run simple stuff like ls, dmesg but it died on bash, and the install failed (amd64 host) 01:15 flint kjcole, yes indeed Phil Shapiro. He has truckloads of G3's and maybe a few G5's 01:17 jelkner yes he does 01:17 jelkner and i'm sure he would like to help 01:18 jelkner i only have about 12 minutes before students arrive, are we going to talk about docs? 01:18 ogra for now the ltsp install on ppc is still borked ... so yu guys have some time until my next upload arrives ;) 01:18 ogra i'm done as i said ... 01:19 JaneW are we done with tech stuff? 01:19 JaneW snap 01:19 ogra :) 01:19 JaneW good progress 01:19 ogra mostly CD testing ... it eats a lot of time ... 01:19 JaneW ogra: so is everything looking like smooth sailing to dapper? 01:19 lucasvo Yagisan: you are interested in testing ppc clients? === FLeiXiuS [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:19 ogra JaneW, yup 01:19 JaneW ogra: excellent 01:19 JaneW ogra: and local devices, think there's a chance it will get sorted? 01:20 ogra JaneW, and i even got granted the right to upload myself while mdz is away ;) 01:20 JaneW ogra: cool, sneak stuff through... ;) 01:20 JaneW I never said that! 01:20 Yagisan lucasvo: yes - but I'm in Sydney 01:20 ogra there is still a meeting pending... i'll have to wait for mdz, but i'll start testing 01:20 JaneW nod 01:20 JaneW ok documentation -> 01:20 lucasvo Yagisan: ssh isn't enough? 01:20 ogra sound is also awaiting his approval 01:21 flint JaneW, wait a minute i have to pick at a very important scab... 01:21 Yagisan lucasvo: I'd need a loaner for some testing 01:21 JaneW flint: you are incorigable! 01:21 Yagisan lucasvo: anyway - I'll let you know if/when I have something ready to test 01:21 JaneW (and I can't spell) 01:21 flint ogra, elkner says it will not be very dapper without local storage... 01:22 Yagisan flint: but ducks only have a limited amount of local storage anyway ... 01:22 ogra flint, the spec was always low/mid prio ... 01:22 ogra i have to care for the high priority stuff first ... 01:23 ogra and for the blocker bugs ... 01:23 jelkner flint: you were not available 01:24 Yagisan ogra: priority 1 - does it start, priority 2 - no BSOD :) 01:24 jelkner limited is ok, but we *some* 01:24 ogra flint, the other specs are likely to be implemented before edn of the year (at least locally) so i can spend the rest of my time on local devices ... 01:24 flint Yagisan, what is this a "flap" about storage? 01:25 jelkner ogra: great news! 01:25 ogra but still n promises ... 01:25 flint that would be sweet ollie! i would love to help... 01:26 JaneW flint: what about the scab...? 01:26 JaneW flint is Gold Memeber! 01:26 flint that is the itch! 01:27 flint I would not want a duck with an itch... 01:27 flint on to the docs... Meanwhile... Docs: We are getting more and more requests from folks wanting to help 01:27 kjcole with the cookbook... which, while appreciated, I'm not sure we're ready for. One thing is that I think some are still thinking "wiki" while we're thinking "PDF" and "HTML". 01:28 jelkner besides, too many cooks spoil the cookbook 01:28 kjcole lucasvo asked a few minutes ago if we had a roadmap... I guess the tuxlab table of contents is the closest approximation of a roadmap, such as it is. 01:28 jelkner things work well with a small group of folks who can work closely together 01:29 irvin the cookbook will be dapper-specific or will it include stuff from breezy? 01:29 jelkner but to maintain a consistent style and a well organized book, you really need just a few people 01:29 ogra it will be dapper and + 01:29 jelkner ogra: we will need your help === Kmirno_AWAY is now known as Mirno 01:29 ogra jelkner, for ? 01:30 jelkner we have what was a chapter (which we are making an appendix) which describes the boot process in low level detail 01:30 ogra tech stuff ? 01:30 jelkner yup 01:30 jelkner it will be a great appendix 01:30 ogra fine with me 01:30 jelkner the current version describes ltsp 01:30 flint I will make myself available for bad prose and puns.... 01:30 ogra so we have a 20 page cookbook and a 100 page appendix ? 01:30 irvin haha 01:30 jelkner and since edubuntu is different, kevin and i will need your help 01:30 ogra :) 01:30 lucasvo a list of who is working on what would be gooda as well. 01:30 flint and 300 pages of bug reports... 01:31 jelkner kevin said he would get in touch with you about that 01:31 ogra the basics of the bootprocess are the same ... 01:31 kjcole ogra, We're now in chapter 6, and an appendix. The LTSP description in tuxLab goes into deep detail, which I gather, is wong. 01:31 jelkner you'll see when we send you the draft 01:31 jelkner a lot is different 01:31 kjcole jelkner, my bad. 01:31 ogra yup, i'll check out bzr ... 01:31 flint actually, are there any diagrams? 01:31 jelkner no 01:31 jelkner we could use some 01:32 flint I love diagrams, elkner knows from his system descriptions how much I like diagrams. 01:33 jelkner step on is to get the current edited version of the appendix to ogra 01:33 jelkner (kjcole will do that) 01:33 JaneW jelkner: it makes sense to keep the group containable and functional then, if you can manage the load... 01:33 jelkner then after ogra fixes it, we can talk to flint about adding a diagram 01:33 JaneW diagrams are great, the more the better IMO 01:33 ogra yup 01:33 JaneW makes it more interesting and accessable 01:33 jelkner JaneW: yes, jane 01:33 jelkner that is the only way to do it 01:34 kjcole ogra, expect that from me a bit later today. 01:34 ogra yup 01:34 jelkner since it is free content, folks can make whatever changes they want after we have a go at it 01:35 jelkner i guess that's it for the book 01:35 lucasvo I would like to have some list of who is doing what for the cookbook. 01:35 kjcole The face-to-face meetings really help. (As nice as IRC and gobby are, they're no substitute for simultaneously reading text aloud.) 01:36 lucasvo Because I don't have a clue who is doing what. 01:36 lucasvo kjcole: where do you live :D 01:36 jelkner luscasva: kevin and i are editing the first draft 01:36 jelkner that's about it 01:36 flint kjcole, elkner are skype-ing at this meeting. I highly recommend this communication channel to all... 01:36 ogra lucasvo, > than 8h away from you 01:36 ogra (with a plane ;) ) 01:36 lucasvo skype doesn't work on my box 01:37 flint lucasvo, it took a lot of doing to get skype working under breezy... 01:37 kjcole lucasvo, just ignore flint. ;-) 01:38 ogra complain at skype, its closed source stuff, we cant do much about it ... 01:38 lucasvo yeah, thats why we should use gnome-meeting 01:38 ogra yup 01:39 lucasvo but that doesn't work on my machine, because I have blocked UDP 01:40 flint lucasvo, indeed, that is why stoom or gizmo might be a better fit. funcitonally it is really quite nice.. 01:42 jelkner lucasvo: are you trying to get involved in the book? 01:42 lucasvo jelkner: yes 01:42 jelkner ok, here is what we should do: lucasvo, essentially, we're going through the tuxLab Cookbook, in order. Much of it is 01:43 kjcole well-written, and just has parts which need to be eliminated. And now we're finally getting into specific differences like the LTSP boot process, which need to be replaced. 01:43 jelkner kevin and i are meeting next on jan 7 (sunday 01:43 jelkner ) 01:43 jelkner could you join us remotely then? 01:43 jelkner 10 am EST 01:43 kjcole Eastern Standard (UTC - 5:00) 01:43 flint what a civilized hour to meet :^) 01:44 jelkner send us your email firstname.lastname@example.org 01:44 jelkner and we will get you the latest source before then === kjcole is email@example.com 01:44 lucasvo jelkner: 5 am in the morning? 01:44 jelkner well, we start then 01:44 jelkner and work until about 4 pm 01:44 flint lucasvo, I take it you are in "la bella italia"? 01:44 jelkner so you could join us later 01:44 kjcole luasvo: EST = UTC -5:00 01:45 lucasvo flint: no, switzerlad 01:45 kjcole lucasvo, So, 10:00 EST... You do the math for where you are. 01:45 flint lucasvo, a thousand pardons... 01:45 lucasvo it is 4 in the morning for me 01:46 jelkner anyway, our next work session is jan 7 01:46 jelkner we *start* at 4 01:46 jelkner and work until 10 your time 01:46 irvin kjcole, jelkner can i join in too? 01:46 ogra lucasvo, 5:00 UTC is 6am in europe 01:46 jelkner what is the earliest you can jolin us? 01:46 kjcole Lucasvo: That can't be right... 10:00 EST should be 3:00 PM EST, if I'm not mistaken. === Hirion [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 01:46 kjcole s /3:00 EST/ 3:00 UTC/ 01:46 flint lucasvo, these people are like dairy farmers and the documentation is like a milk cow :^) 01:47 JaneW Our next meeting is Jan 11 01:47 jelkner irvin: send me an email: email@example.com 01:47 lucasvo jelkner: should I join the team? 01:47 jelkner so i can plan with you how to get something going 01:47 lucasvo jelkner: launchpad.com/people/lucasvo 01:47 jelkner sure 01:47 jelkner kevin set that up 01:47 jelkner i don't know concretely what it means yet 01:47 jelkner kevin? 01:48 jelkner s/jan 11/jan 7 01:48 jelkner oops 01:48 kjcole jelkner, not a whole lot. ;-) It's currently just a list of interested parties. 01:48 ogra JaneW, why dont we do one on jan 4th ? 01:49 jelkner ok, so folks can join it if they wish, but send me an email if you want to be included in the planning 01:49 irvin thanks jelkner 01:50 JaneW ogra: you can, but I will be on leave (and camping, so not available at all) 01:50 kjcole Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you, which is more like a way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the launchpad team. 01:50 ogra there were several -fr people asking for a possibility to translate, since they are subscribed to the ML, could you CC the ml for planning ? 01:50 jelkner ok, that about does it 01:50 jelkner ogra: ok, another issue 01:51 jelkner not a good idea yet 01:51 flint kjcole, for instance lucasvo, kevin would never approve me... :^( 01:51 kjcole jelkner, launchpad, bzr, web space? 01:51 ogra jelkner, why ? 01:51 jelkner they would be translating a *very* moving target 01:51 jelkner think how much work that would be 01:51 lucasvo kjcole: I don't understand what you want to say 01:51 ogra as early as possible i would think 01:51 flint kjcole, how is your experience with bzr? 01:52 ogra jelkner, my prob is that they start to develop totally independent documentation that i cant ever check (my french sucks) 01:52 jelkner ogra: yes, but that is the only way that makes sense 01:52 ogra so knowing they use our upstream source will give some safety about the correctnees of the content 01:52 jelkner the book is a global thing 01:52 kjcole lucasvo, regarding what? 13:50 < kjcole> Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you, 01:53 lucasvo which is more like a way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the launchpad team. 01:53 jelkner when editing chapter x, we find that a change in chapter x - 5 will help clarify things 01:53 jelkner so the whole book is constantly changing 01:53 jelkner if they start translating now 01:53 ogra then they have to change it as well 01:53 jelkner they would have to do it all again each week 01:53 jelkner a *lot* of work 01:53 flint ogra, the only thing to rely on is the outline/TOC... and even that remains in flux 01:53 ogra my concern is that they already do stuff and that some of it is really wrong ... Lucasvo, you asked if you should "join the team". I've set up a team on Launchpad, but 01:54 kjcole it is restricted so that I get e-mail when someone adds themselves to the team. Their membership waits until I approve it. 01:54 ogra additionally they developed a broken liveCD and people come to us, asking about fixes for example ... 01:54 kjcole Lucasvo, Unless it's flint, I approve them. 01:54 ogra i want coordination, as much as possible ... 01:55 lucasvo kjcole: aha, yes 01:55 flint kjcole, power corrupts... 01:55 jelkner ogra: i can coordinate the english version of the book 01:55 jelkner i would encourgage translators to wait 01:55 ogra jelkner, we need to coordinate beyond language borders, thats why i ask you to make the coordination public to all ... 01:55 jelkner unless you have enough of a team for an independent effort in another language 01:56 jelkner ogra: keep in mind, you can't write a book with dozens of contributors 01:56 ogra ...thats why i ask to CC the mailing lis in your coordination discussions 01:56 jelkner it won't work Ogra, most of what we're doing so far isn't very technical, and is general enough to 01:56 kjcole still be right: "What is an Operating System?" "What is a Network" "Why is Open Source a 'good thing'?" 01:57 lucasvo launchpad.net - not found... 01:57 jelkner it would be hugely helpful if we could get our work into bzr 01:57 jelkner then folks could just grab it and look at it 01:57 ogra jelkner, i just want you to make it public, i didnt say "acceppt 100 contributors" 01:57 lucasvo jelkner: what's the bzr kjcole has? 01:57 ogra they should just know whats going on 01:57 jelkner it is on a local machine he set up 01:58 jelkner it would be much better to have it on launchpad 01:58 ogra it will, if launchpad is ready 01:58 jelkner agian, we are stuck trying to learn to setup bzr, instead of focusing on writing the book 01:58 ogra the bzr archive is fine ... 01:58 ogra whats the prob ? 01:58 flint kevin, where is version control? 01:59 jelkner we can't commit 01:59 kjcole lucasvo, he meant launchpad, not bzr. 01:59 ogra you dont commit on the server .... 01:59 flint sounds like guy thing... 01:59 kjcole ogra, he meant push. 01:59 ogra you make a local branch and commit there ... 02:00 ogra and i still would suggest to leave the merging in one hand ... dont do all pushes to one source ... 02:00 flint we have a big bzr understanding problem 02:00 lucasvo can you reach launchpad? 02:00 ogra have one guy managing the merges of the branches 02:00 ogra how i work with mdz: 02:00 flint next week documentation time is about using bzr ok? jane back me up! 02:00 ogra he has the master branch online .... 02:01 ogra i pull it locally, make my changes and commit .... 02:01 JaneW flint: knock yourself out 02:01 jelkner ok all, i need to go 02:01 JaneW on your own 02:01 lucasvo jelkner: I will contact you.. 02:01 ogra then i push it up to my own server ... 02:01 flint kevin can you confirm that you have the master branch online 02:01 jelkner students arriving... 02:01 JaneW no meeting next week :P 02:01 lucasvo jelkner: are you in the launchpad team? 02:01 ogra and he does the merging 02:01 jelkner great 02:01 lucasvo jelkner: bye 02:01 flint JaneW, yea I have done that before... 02:01 jelkner bye 02:01 JaneW the next meeting is in 3 weeks time, and an unofficial one in 2 weeks 02:01 flint ok then week after all about bzr... 02:01 lucasvo JaneW: what time? 02:02 JaneW I am off for 2 weeks from friday WOOHOO 02:02 ogra lucasvo, as usual 02:02 flint JaneW, we need meeting time about use of bzr to go forward. 02:02 lucasvo ah, ok 02:02 JaneW first real leave since April 2004, cept for a long week end or 2 02:02 ogra flint, yes, but you can come to #edubuntu and we do it there ... informal ... 02:02 JaneW flint: you are welcome to have one anytime, even next week or the week after flint, the master branch (root?) is on my machine. Launchpad points to it. However, 02:03 kjcole it was intended to be there til moved to somewhere more official like Launchpad itself. (Ogra tells me the launchpad super-mirror isn't ready for prime-time yet.) 02:03 JaneW lucasvo: always the same time 12:00 UTC 02:03 flint fine we will be there during the meeting on Sunday... will you be fresh and rested? 02:03 lucasvo JaneW: ok, even if it is unofficial 02:03 JaneW sunday 02:03 JaneW lucasvo: well I won;t be here, I guess those that are around will meet the normal time? 02:03 lucasvo ah, ok 02:04 lucasvo I can't reach launchpad 02:04 kjcole flint, one reason push/merge/whatever doesn't fly yet is because I didn't want to open up my little machine for "write access". But pull works... 02:04 JaneW I seriously need some afk time and will even shut*my*laptop*down *gaspe*! 02:04 flint ogra, you likely need to teach kevin and kevin can then torture me with his superior knowledge... 02:04 irvin just leave the schedule on the fridge :) 02:04 JaneW it is on the fridge 02:04 ogra flint, in short its working how i described above ... 02:04 Yagisan JaneW: you turn off you laptop ????? 02:05 JaneW Yagisan: no but on Friday I am going to 02:05 ogra flint, everybody puts his branch online and doe his commits there... one merge master reviews and merges the work of the others in the main branch 02:05 JaneW we'll how see how long I last before turning it on again ;) 02:05 ogra flint, no magic involved 02:06 flint ogra, lemme attack this issue. I see a problem to work on. 02:06 kjcole lucasvo, I'm thinking you've got network problems: First the bzr branch giving you troubles now launchpad.net... 02:06 flint elkner ment Sunday January 8th note the date!!! 02:06 lucasvo kjcole: atm I am in school with completely other net 02:07 lucasvo ah, maybe it is because I don't have https proxy 02:07 kjcole lucasvo, well that blows that theory. Wrong me. 02:07 ogra flint, if the supermirror exists, you'll have your branch attached to your account on launchpad and the merge master will be able to merge stuff *on* launchpad 02:07 JaneW ok time is def up, let's move to #edubuntu?