(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting March 22, 2006

   01:01    ogra          lets wait for the US to show up ...
   01:02    spacey        JaneW: here already?
   01:02    ogra          Seveas, moved to monday
   01:02    ogra          nope, JaneW cant attend in the beginning
   01:02    Seveas        that explains the sudden disappearance of it
   01:02    Seveas        ok, I'll shut up
   01:02    ogra          she's at school meeting a teacher
   01:02    spacey        ah ok
   === ogra taps his foot for flint ...
   === flint [n=flint@montpeliervt-cuda1-24-50-146-184.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:03    ogra          ah
   01:03    flint         ogra, you are bad people to hold meetings this early.
   01:03    pips1         hi flint
   01:03    ogra          its early afternoon here, donno what you mean :P
   === kjcole [n=kjcole@dsl092-145-217.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:03    spacey        at least my point for the meeting is that the worksheet got neglected again
   === pips1 munches on his lunch
   01:03    flint         good morning from the frozen north...
   01:04    ogra          morning flint :)
   01:04    ogra          hey kjcole
   01:04    flint         the coffee pot is a cold memory.
   01:04    jsgotangco    good evening from beer laden asia
   01:04    ogra          heh
   01:04    ogra          so lets start ...
   01:04    flint         jsgotangco, beer laden, sounds like a terrorist!
   01:04    flint         :^)
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   01:05    kjcole        hi  all. My ISP is in flakey-land again, so I might disappear without warning.
   01:05    flint         kjcole, hey kevin, thanks for your help
   01:05    ogra          on the tech side, i worked a lot on the edubuntu-artwork package last week, we have our own
                          gtk theme and i included a tango based icon theme for the "plain" flavour
   01:05    pips1         ogra, what happened to highvoltage, do you know?
   01:05    ogra          no idea, sorry
   === pips1 shuts up and listens
   01:06    ogra          that gets us in the position to drop ubuntu-artwork from the CD
   01:06    jsgotangco    ogra: do we still have space?
   01:06    ogra          through my additions we loose 2Mb ...
   01:06    jsgotangco    eeekkk
   01:06    jsgotangco    there's goes my doc in svn
   01:06    ogra          through dropping ubuntu-artwork we win 6MB :)
   01:07    ogra          so the overall gain from this are 4 meg :)
   01:07    flint         ogra, fine work.
   01:07    ogra          if you run dapper, please update to the latest edubuntu-artwork and give some feedback
   01:08    jsgotangco    ogra: will a daily work for me?
   01:08    ogra          i'm sure there are still enough bugs in it to hunt
   01:08    spacey        i will
   01:08    spacey        ogra: i installed the edubuntu artwork
   01:08    spacey        but i didn't get any theme
   01:08    ogra          the dailies are broken until the next gwm upload
   01:08    spacey        only the font changed
   01:08    flint         ogra, think if legislatures and governments had the limitation you had when they drafted
                          laws...or tax policy.
   01:08    jsgotangco    hmmmm
   01:08    ogra          gdm currently depends on ubuntu-artwork ... that makes the dailies oversized
   01:08    flint         so flight 5 works an the daily works tomorrow eh?
   01:09    ogra          flint, i'm not sure when seb128 planned the next gdm upload
   01:09    jsgotangco    flight5 works fine
   01:09    jsgotangco    you'll just have to update it
   01:09    ogra          but its a trivial change, i can probably do myself
   01:09    ogra          yes, flight5 should work fine
   01:10    ogra          note that the artwork still doesnt have the final wallpaper work
   01:10    flint         ogra, been busy, will load flight 5 this week.
   01:10    jsgotangco    ogra: i understand correctly, we're not using oour pumpking colors?
                          the defaul wallpaper will be selected by canonical, for the "young" flavor, jane and
   01:11    ogra          highvoltage are in contact with the aouthor of the pic we selected in one of the last
   01:11    ogra          jsgotangco, exactly ...
   01:11    jsgotangco    fair enough
                          ogra: something else on the tech side, we had some bugs with willow but author doesn't
   01:12    spacey        respond to mail. Makes it a bit less interesting for future inclusion. Although I didn't
                          attempt any further contact yet.
   01:12    ogra          i have seen some suggestions from the design agency and based our theme on that ... the
                          pumpking colors looked horrible with the edubuntu orange ...
   01:12    ogra          spacey, hey, its opensource ... worst we'll for it ;)
   01:12    spacey        yup
   01:12    spacey        true
   01:12    spacey        :)
   === Lure [n=luka@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:13    ogra          i have to look very deep into the code anyway
                          ogra: my conern here would be on disc space on the install cd because i currently have a
   01:13    jsgotangco    document with screenshots, i'm not sure of the exact size yet so if you'd like an edubuntu
                          specific doc in the cd space would be a concern
   01:13    ogra          if we want to get rid of the multiverse dependency
   01:13    ogra          jsgotangco, yes, it is
   01:13    spacey        we encountered some bug that makes a few of the threads go beserk,
   01:13    kjcole        ogra, I got the impression that a lot looked bad with the orange, and people were saying
                          "change the orange".
   01:13    spacey        i loved the orange
   01:14    jsgotangco    because it still mixes with the brown palettes
   01:14    ogra          kjcole, we have our own independent theme now ...
   01:14    jsgotangco    that's why it doesn't jive
   01:14    jsgotangco    but if you use pumpkin with gartoon, it'll look more like puke
   01:14    spacey        :>
   01:15    kjcole        (I wouldn't know because I installed edubuntu and then kubuntu-desktop on top of
                          it...  Haven't flipped over to the GNOME side of things recently.)
   01:15    ogra          ah
   01:16    ogra          ok, thats it from the tech side ... oh, btw, i just looked, yesterdays liveCD seems not
                          oversized ... you might try that one for checking the theme ...
   01:16    kjcole        New slogan "Puke: A theme for teenage boys."
   01:16    spacey        in what package does that edubuntu theme and garnome reside?
   01:16    flint         kjcole, lol
   01:16    spacey        not it edubuntu-artwork it seems
   01:17    ogra          spacey, edubuntu-artwork and gartoon-icon-theme
   01:17    jsgotangco    ive said my piece
   01:17    spacey        ah
   01:17    jsgotangco    my concern is disc space
   01:17    jsgotangco    if not, i'm satisified as a universe package
   01:17    ogra          we could save 8Mb by dropping firefox :)
   01:17    jsgotangco    would you?
   01:17    ogra          in favor of epiphany ?
   01:17    flint         ogra, harsh, very harsh :^)
   01:17    jsgotangco    it's still moz
   01:18    jsgotangco    i'd use epi anytime
   01:18    ogra          (which is only 2MB big and has its translations already installed)
   === jsgotangco acutally favors epi
   01:18    ogra          i dont favor either one ...
   01:18    spacey        ogra: i am in favour of epiphany :)
   01:18    spacey        :P
   01:18    spacey        gonna switch our terminal server this week
   01:18    spacey        and see how the users like it
   01:19    jsgotangco    ogra: would it be an issue if we drop something like firefox?
   01:19    spacey        but doesn' epiphany still depend on firefox?
   01:19    ogra          jsgotangco, i guess so ...
   01:19    ogra          nope,
   01:19    ogra          but yelp does, argh !
   01:19    spacey        ok thats great
   01:19    spacey        oh :p
   01:19    ogra          damned
   01:19    ogra          so we cant drop it
   01:19    spacey        maybe for dapper+1 :)
   === Lure [n=luka@external-7.hermes.si] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation]
   01:19    ogra          yeah
   01:20    ogra          dropping ff *and* its translation packages would gain us a *lot*
   01:20    spacey        :)
   01:20    ogra          ok, and other doc news ?
   01:20    ogra          s/and/any/
   01:21    spacey        i finished up the hardware requirements
   01:21    jsgotangco    ogra: but yelp relies on it
   01:21    spacey        for the cookbook
   01:21    jsgotangco    i think ooo relies on it too
   01:21    flint         ogra, sadly the way of this is to shave and prune, which is time consuming.  I like
   01:21    spacey        and the worksheet still didn't get any attention
   01:21    ogra          jsgotangco, i'm sure both would be fine with only libnspr ...
   01:21    spacey        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/HardwareRequirements
   01:21    ogra          they need gecko, but not all of firefox
   01:21    spacey        if someone can check it out for comments
   === ogra looks
   01:22    spacey        needs some extra love i think
   01:22    spacey        but the main point is there
   01:22    ogra          wow
   01:22    ogra          i run 300MHz 64MB clients over here
   01:22    ogra          :)
   01:22    spacey        :P
   01:22    spacey        little details
   01:22    spacey        :)
   01:23    ogra          you should add a minimal specs section :)
   01:23    spacey        whats minimal
   01:23    spacey        100mhz and 16mb of ram?
   01:23    ogra          but apart from that, very nice !!
   01:23    ogra          nope+
   01:23    flint         spacey, nice page
   01:23    ogra          233MHz and 48MB i'd say
   01:23    spacey        ok
   01:23    spacey        i'll add that
   01:23    ogra          thats the absolute minimum
   01:24    spacey        another thing
   01:24    ogra          tested are, as i said, 300 and 64
   01:24    spacey        does ltsp over ssh takes the same amount of network as normal LSTP (without compression)?
   01:24    ogra          i heard it should take less than X transport
                          I've got some horrible notes that I'm working on under "Getting Started".  It's a jumble
   01:25    kjcole        trying to explain hubs, switches, and routers to the unwashed masses -- and I'm one of the
   01:25    ogra          (but i have not measured it at all)
   01:25    ogra          kjcole, sounds great :)
   01:25    kjcole        It's kind of my notes as I learn about those "thingies" that are between my computer and
                          the wall.
   01:25    flint         spacey, might want to say something about video card and network cards...
   01:26    ogra          i guess you all got that the release is delayed to july 1st
   01:26    ogra          so we'll have some extra time for docs (just no space)
   01:26    spacey        flint: like what?
   01:26    spacey        besides get an PXE one
   01:26    kjcole        ogra, From the resident atheist: "Praise be"
   01:26    ogra          heh
   01:27    kjcole        ogra (re: July 1.  The gods have smiled.)
   01:27    ogra          spacey, you should use a videocard with less than 2MB
   01:27    flint         spacey, talk about the famous rom-o-matic, and link to supported (or unsupported) video
   01:27    ogra          (thats the least for 1024x786@16bit)
   01:27    spacey        ogra: more then 2mb ?:)
   01:27    kjcole        But, July 1 is the RELEASE date... when's the last time we can hand in our homework and
                          hope it will be graded?
   01:28    spacey        and you mean june 1st no july right?
   01:28    ogra          nope
   01:28    spacey        oh
   01:28    ogra          err
   01:28    ogra          yes, indeed
   01:28    ogra          6-06 :)
   01:28    spacey        so 1st of june 2006
   01:28    spacey        :)
   01:28    spacey        to be clear
   01:28    ogra          yeah, sorry
   01:28    spacey        :)
   01:29    ogra          and s/should/shouldnt above indeed
   01:29    spacey        flint: it links to rom-o-matic already
   01:29    spacey        flint: i think any video card is supported as long as it does vesa or something
   01:29    ogra          and apart from the videoram issue, i wouldnt know what else to say about videocards
   01:30    jsgotangco    i gotta go first
   01:30    jsgotangco    nice meething though
   01:30    jsgotangco    ciao
   01:30    ogra          ciao jsgotangco
   01:30    flint         spacey, I just did not see the link on the page...
   01:31    spacey        flint: well i didn't create a link section
   01:31    spacey        but its in the text
   01:31    spacey        ogra: so minimum 2m video ram?
   01:31    ogra          yep
   01:31    spacey        recommended video ram?
   01:31    ogra          4 ?
   01:31    ogra          dunno
   01:31    spacey        i have no idea either. never had problems with it
   01:32    flint         ogra, is it a min of 2 meg or a usable max or 2 megs ram?
   01:32    ogra          but do you have cards with less than 2m ?
   01:32    ogra          flint, min 2 meg
   01:32    flint         ogra, if you want to talk trident I can talk trident.
   01:32    flint         :^)
   01:32    ogra          heh
   01:33    spacey        anything that does more then 256 colours and less then 2mb video ram?
   01:33    ogra          not at 1024x786
   === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:33    spacey        :)
   01:33    flint         spacey, the problem I run into is that the video card will boot in a resolution that is
                          higher than the cheezy monitor I have hanging on a random box and it will not lock.
   01:33    ogra          which is the resolution we default to if nothing can be detected ...
   01:34    spacey        :>
   01:34    ogra          flint, then you need to use lts.conf to configure it
   01:34    flint         ogra, the ticket here is to tell the system <ctrl> <alt> - to drop or get a better monitor,
                          so there is a montitor spec eh?
   01:35    flint         ogra, not a great one but the monitor should do 1280 X 1024 or something
   01:35    ogra          flint, i havent seen any monitors doing that ... in the rare cornercase where it might
                          happen, you can manually adjust it in lts.conf
   01:35    flint         ogra, should a monitor spec be included?
   01:35    ogra          there is no monitor spec ...
   === JaneW sneaks in and sits down quietly
   01:36    ogra          nope, i dont think so
                          kjcole: jelkner: the edubuntucookbookworksheet still has no status information. If you are
   01:36    spacey        gonna do it please do it, if you cannot manage to do it then please say so, so that someone
                          else can do it.
   01:36    flint         ogra, keep in mind client systems are often not leading edge hardware...
   01:36    ogra          even standard svga monitors will provide the data needed for configuration ...
   01:37    flint         ogra, ok, I saw it once but I take your word on this.
   01:37    spacey        jelkner or kjcole still here?
   01:37    ogra          as i said, you can adjust it in lts.conf, thats what its for
   01:38    ogra          if you use such hardware, you will expect problems i guess ;) it was never easy to get bad
                          hardware running
   01:38    kjcole        spacey, still here.  though ISP still misbehaving. I'll say I can't manage.
   01:39    spacey        kjcole: ok, but all available information is in the wiki? or still text somewhere else?
   01:39    flint         spacey, they are, I am looking at the worksheet, what is it that has not been updated?
   01:40    flint         https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet
   01:40    spacey        flint: the status field, which is really convienant
   01:40    kjcole        I took all the text as it was in Lore and put it into the wiki.  So as far as I know,
                          that's the only set of document anyone is updating now.
   01:40    spacey        especially if someone is interesting in contributing
   01:40    spacey        i don't have access to that lore thing
   01:41    spacey        so i just put it in the wiki directly
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   01:41    flint         spacey, there you have me, I susptect that no one but you and Herman have done anything
                          this week worth posting.
   01:41    ozric         hail techone
   01:41    spacey        flint: i am herman
   01:41    ozric         tech ones*
   01:41    ogra          spacey, both of you ?
   01:41    ogra          :)
                          spacey, once I switched everything over, both jelkner and I have been working in the
   01:42    kjcole        wiki.  Since we were the only two doing lore, I think the wiki is now the definitive
   01:42    flint         spacey, sincerely it is hard to stay this confused this much of the time :^)
   01:42    spacey        kjcole: ok thats good
   01:42    spacey        anyway if everything is in the wiki
   01:42    spacey        i'll fix up the status stuff and then call out for some more volunteers to write
   01:42    jelkner       spacey: i'm still here, but i've got to go soon
   === theoddone [n=theoddon@hgibson.ee.sun.ac.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   01:42    flint         spacey, I like the wiki, and will update it when I get my lazy ass to contribute
   01:42    ogra          jelkner, any news from your side ?
   01:42    spacey        if jdub adds me to planet someone might actually read it as well
   01:43    jelkner       yes
   01:43    kjcole        spacey, I subscribed to all the pages and had been noticing all the recent activity. Thanx.
   === spacey will send to mailinglist as well
   01:43    jelkner       i started reworking the intro chapters now that i have a better understanding of what the
                          cookbook is
   01:44    jelkner       i'm also working with flint on a recipe for using edubuntu in a multi-lingual environment
   01:44    jelkner       flint is wrting the recipe
   01:44    spacey        jelkner: i'll leave to chapters that someone assiged to themselves for what it is for now,
                          but all the rest I will try to get a status thing
   01:44    jelkner       i'll test it and put it in the book
   01:44    ogra          you should have a look at lts.conf settings etc as well ... wrt multi-lingual
   01:44    jelkner       spacy: good
   01:44    jelkner       flint: you still here?
   01:45    jelkner       ogra: he has been in touch with you, yes?
   01:45    pips1         ogra, cue me re website whenever you feel it's a good moment
   01:46    ogra          jelkner, yes, and i told him that it will be solved in ltsp in dapper+1  ...
   01:46    jelkner       fine, but we need a recipe for now
   01:46    ogra          pips1, ok, added :)
   01:46    jelkner       that's the kind of thing the cookbook is for
   01:46    flint         yes i was just screwing up the status page.
   01:46    ogra          jelkner, might be, but please not in the cookbook
   01:46    jelkner       ogra: ??
   01:47    ogra          you are fiddling with files you should fiddle with (~/.dmrc)
   01:47    jelkner       what do you mean, not in the cookbook?
   01:47    flint         ogra, yea buddy...
   01:47    ogra          it will be solved in a non intrusive way in dapper+1
   01:47    ogra          please dont add breaking reciepes in the cookbook
   01:47    ogra          s/should/shouldnt/
   01:48    ogra          (seems to be my typo of the day :( )
   01:48    jelkner       my understanding of the role of the cookbook is something like "google hacks" from oreilly
   01:48    ogra          it will be solved in a sane manner
   01:48    pips1         ogra, what do you mean by that?
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   01:48    jelkner       it will provide solutions to problems that have not been solved in an easy way in the
                          distro yet
   01:49    ogra          jelkner, then please use the right way and manage it with language packs and tzhe language
                          selector ... thats what they are for
   01:49    spacey        thats not my understanding of the cookbook
   01:49    jelkner       spacey: what is your understanding of the cookbook?
   01:49    pips1         ogra, what would a 'breaking recipe' be?
   01:49    ogra          we have tools to achieve what you want, dont reinvent the wheel ...
   01:49    flint         ogra, what is a breaking reciepe?
   01:49    spacey        it get someone without knowledge going with edubuntu
   01:49    jelkner       spacey: that isn't going to happen
   01:50    jelkner       unless someone other than kevin and i takes it over
   01:50    ogra          pips1, a breaking reciepe would be "if you want this or that for all your users you add
                          this shellscript to /etc/skel"
   01:50    spacey        if you wants hacks you should call it EdubuntuHacks
   01:50    jelkner       we are users, that kind of book needs to be written by core developers
   01:50    spacey        users don't hack
   01:50    pips1         ogra, ah! cheers :-)
   01:50    jelkner       spacey: are you volunteering to take over the cookbook?
   01:51    ogra          it will work, but is an evil hack
   01:51    jelkner       i'd be glad to turn over the keys to you
   01:51    jelkner       ;-)
   01:51    spacey        jelkner: i will consider it
   01:51    jelkner       just let me know
   01:51    spacey        first want that status information
   01:51    spacey        since know i have no idea what needs to be done
   01:51    jelkner       and kevin and i can work on "Edubuntu Community Hacks"
   01:52    jelkner       i felt at this point that things like that could go in the cookbook
   01:52    jelkner       since it would basically be a collection of "recipes"
   01:52    ogra          jelkner, you misunderstand me
   01:52    jelkner       and would be community driven
   01:52    spacey        jelkner: i'm not a core developer but I feel what people need it a good introduction and
                          understand how things work in edubuntu.
   01:52    flint         ogra, actually we are all evil hackers :^)
   01:52    spacey        what was your perception of this ogra?
   01:52    jelkner       spacey: there are 2 ways you could make that happen (since i can't):
   01:53    ogra          if you make reciepes like these, that can be solved easily with thre or five clicks in the
                          gui tool, please dont reinvent the wheel and add weird hacks ..
   01:53    spacey        its no use to hack around if the basics and workings are unfamiliar
   01:53    kjcole        My own "grand vision" for what the cookbook ought to be is two-part:
   01:53    jelkner       1. you could add recipes to the current cookbook
   01:53    ogra          thats my concern
   01:53    ogra          not that this reciepe is added
   01:53    jelkner       2. we could decide that is in essence what the cookbook should be and someone with the
                          ability to make it that should take it over
   01:53    spacey        jelkner: i love the idea of recipes but first you need to know how to make the basic
   01:54    ogra          we have the multi-language tools on board ...
                          the first part was largely tuxLab-like in nature: get non-technical folks -- teachers
   01:54    kjcole        primarily -- exited and interested in a cheap lab where they have a lot of control, and
                          give them the tools to set it up.
   01:54    ogra          one target of the cookbook should be to promote what we have and its right usage ...
   01:54    jelkner       ogra: then the current "recipe" should reflect the currently possible best way to do it
   01:54    flint         ogra, if a teacher needs internationalization, and a command line script does the job, then
                          it also instructs the gui tool builder of the future.
   01:54    jelkner       i'm a field worker setting up edubuntu out in the community
   01:54    ogra          jelkner, which is not by editing rc files
   01:55    jelkner       i want to take care of the customers needs
   01:55    jelkner       as soon as possible
   01:55    jelkner       so i see recipes as way to do that
   01:55    kjcole        part two would be recipes or "hacks" for the day-to-day,
                          I-need-it-now-and-don't-have-time-for-the-perfect-solution, problems.
   01:55    ogra          yes
   01:55    flint         ogra, if you cannot edit rc files what can you edit?
   01:55    spacey        i'm a field worker as well
   01:55    spacey        if you want to call it like that
   01:55    ogra          flint, you can edit waht ou want ... but there is a better way
   01:56    pips1         kjcole ++
   01:56    flint         ogra, and when the "better way" shows up, then it becomes the new reciepe
   01:56    jelkner       exactly
   01:56    ogra          flint, there *is* a better way since hoary !
   01:56    jelkner       then why don't we know it
   01:56    spacey        kjcole: anyway the first part is the most important one IMHO and its needs to be finished
   01:57    ogra          dunno ...
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   01:57    ogra          i can only point again to language packs, keamap selector in gnome and the language
   01:57    flint         ogra,  whenever we ask for a feature (say local storage) we get told that it will not go
                          in.  local storage might become a reciepe
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   01:57    jelkner       well, students are arriving, i need to run...
   01:57    ogra          flint, thats fine
   01:57    pips1         spacey, kjcole I agree about 1. basics 2. hacks
                          ogra, the big problem with GUI solutions is you need an artist. ;-)  My thoughts would be
   01:58    kjcole        to try to get people less frightened of the command-line and editing files, while not
                          badmouthing GUI solutions.
   01:58    flint         ogra, I tried that as did elkner, you have to be at the terminal to switch languages.  The
                          teacher is at the console.
   01:58    spacey        pips1: are you interested in writing up some stuff in the cookbook later on?
                          kjcole, but do you agree, its easier to explain how to start a specific app and check two
   01:59    ogra          checkboxes next to your language than scaring users by adding third party scripts that edit
                          rc files ?
   01:59    pips1         jelkner, flint : do you feel the "basics" don't need to be in the cookbook?
   01:59    ogra          if you make reciepes, please try to make them the most userfriendly way
   02:00    ogra          anyway, we're running out of time
   02:00    pips1         spacey, I don't have much linux experience under my hat, and I'm busy with edubuntu website
                          already, sorry
   02:00    flint         pips1, basics should be in the default browser page on the CD. the book suplements the
                          edubuntu CD eh?
   02:00    ogra          pips1, so tell us about the website
   02:00    spacey        pips1: ok, np, just checking for possible victims:)
   === highvoltage [n=Jono@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:01    pips1         flint, right
   02:01    ogra          hey highvoltage ...
                          ogra, agreed.  Scripts are cool, but if users are going to fool around with editing, it
   02:01    kjcole        should be them doing the editing, not a third party script -- at least not without a lot of
                          up-front explaination first.
   02:01    flint         ogra, I promise you that both you and elkner will be upset with the reciepes, equally
   02:01    pips1         highvoltage, good timing!
   02:01    pips1         ok, here I go re website
   02:02    highvoltage   hi ogra, pips1, kjcole and flint
   02:02    highvoltage   running late, sorry!
   02:02    ogra          flint, i just expect it to be written in a "ubuntu" way
                          I'm thinking about the maintenance of the website. Not just in terms of technical
   02:02    pips1         maintenance, but in terms of content maintenance and successfully supporting a community.
                          And hopefully, sustained growth of the community beyond our wildest dreams ;-)
   02:02    flint         highvoltage, excellent we were just going on about the documentation.  I still like TuxLab
   02:02    highvoltage   :)
   02:02    ogra          flint, have a look at the ubuntu server guide (installed in dapper by default)
                          Regarding features on the website, I'd like to start small and add more as the need arises.
   02:02    pips1         However, I think the first impression is important. We want to inspire enthusiasm, but
                          avoid hype, IMO. Managing expectations is important.
   02:02    highvoltage   pips1: that maintenance is what i committed to two weeks ago :)
   02:02    kjcole        spacey, also agreed regarding the first part of the cookbook being more important.  That
                          reaches out to the unconverted and nervous.
   02:02    flint         ogra, give me a url...
   02:02    highvoltage   pips1: well said
                          So, it'd be nice to foster a community around Edubuntu, not just sysadmins, but also
   02:02    pips1         teachers and students. I don't want to replicate stuff that's already available elsewhere
                          on the web... so, how what's our "place"?
   02:03    ogra          flint, its in your help browser in dapper
   02:03    pips1         What users to we want to cater for?
   02:03    flint         ogra, gotcha. will look.
   02:03    pips1         What content is the "core edubuntu team" (i.e. us, here) going to provide?
   02:03    highvoltage   pips1: the website should be several things, i think
                          What content are new users expected to be able to contribute, besides documentation? What
   02:03    pips1         communication about non-technical subjects should we encourage? What about curriculum
                          development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for that?
   02:03    kjcole        high, highvoltage ;-)
   02:04    highvoltage   1) It should cater for educators looking for help and documentation on edubuntu
   02:04    highvoltage   2) id should cater for those who want to do a roll-out of edubuntu labs, and need help
   02:04    ogra          it should also be a meeting point for users ...
   02:04    highvoltage   btw- these are just my thoughts, they are not set in stone and completely subject to change
                          by your imput :)
   02:04    highvoltage   3) it should also be a meeting point for users
   02:05    ogra          heh :)
   02:05    highvoltage   :)
   02:05    highvoltage   and for people working collaboratively on edubuntu, aka the edubuntu community
   02:05    jdub          spacey: did anyone ever tell you that you look *just like* jorn baayen?
   02:05    ogra          yep
   === highvoltage notes this down
   02:05    spacey        jdub: no one :)
   02:05    spacey        who is it?
   02:05    highvoltage   pips1: any thoughts on this?
   02:05    jdub          spacey: author of muine, original author of rhythmbox.
   02:06    pips1         What about curriculum development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for
   02:06    spacey        jdub: link?
   02:06    highvoltage   pips1: imo, it could eventually. there's certainly a need, and demand for that.
   02:06    kjcole        pips1, it's a selling point, so probably yes.
   02:06    ogra          pips1, we should encourage it ...
                          pips1: i don't think we currently have all the people we have for that, but it's something
   02:06    highvoltage   we should keep in mind with the design, because it's likely to spread in those areas in the
   02:06    spacey        jdub: apparently i look like a lot of people, last time i went to the sportcenter some girl
                          cursed at me for not recognizing her :p
   02:07    highvoltage   spacey: yeah, i get that a lot
                          There are websites dedicated to educational content already, I don't know too much re
   02:07    pips1         website on curriculum development... as I said, I mainly want to know what to focus on, to
                          avoid duplication.
   02:07    jdub          spacey: hrm, can't find picture.
   02:08    spacey        jdub: you added me to planet, thanks :)
   02:09    pips1         If we want to encourage a certain type of content and user contributions, I feel we need to
                          have a bit of content of that sort there already, to get it started...
   02:09    jdub          spacey: saw your hackergotchi in the process, had to double check it was the one from your
                          email :)
                          I also think it's very, very important to stress the idea that this is about
   02:09    kjcole        community.  I've recently had a teacher that I encouraged to switch to Ubuntu instead try
                          Mephis because someone gave it to him.
   02:09    spacey        :)
                          pips1, at this time, the big threat I see to this documentation activity is the flash
   02:09    flint         screen capture and voice over programs under windows, these work GREAT and make for quick
                          documentation of a programming environment.  There is nothing like it in our arsenal.
   02:09    spacey        jdub: more edubuntu coming up @ planet now :P
   02:09    ogra          yay
                          He went down the road alone, and now is lost, in spite of me trying to encourage him to ask
   02:09    kjcole        questions.  He's about ready to give up, and I've told him I'll sit down with him and
   === ogra should start blogging again as well ...
   02:10    pips1         flint, right
   02:10    jdub          spacey: sweet!
   === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:10    jdub          spacey: edubuntu means cakes.
   02:10    highvoltage   pips1: sorry, did we loose track of what you were saying about the website?
   02:10    spacey        :P
   02:10    pips1         highvoltage, well, sort of :-)
   02:10    spacey        sorry pips1:)
   02:11    kjcole        jdub, the way to a man's stomach is through his computer? ;-)
   02:11    flint         pips1, do you remember the names of these flash generators under windows?  I have been
                          trying for several days to remember (getting old sucks :^)
   02:11    highvoltage   there's one for linux that works ok'ish, called 'wink'
   02:11    ogra          pips1, lets make a call to the mailing list for defaul content selection
   02:11    spacey        kjcole: and getting to his stomach means love
   02:11    ogra          we have a bunch of educators reading it :)
   02:11    flint         highvoltage, yea it is a wimzical combination of audio capture and vnc right?
   === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
                          ogra, regarding blogging, drupal offers blogging out of the box, would you be interested in
   02:12    pips1         enabling a blog section on the new website then? (of course, blogs can always be easily
                          integrated via rss feeds)? what do you say?
   02:12    highvoltage   flint: i don't think it uses vnc
   === _mvo_ [n=egon@p54A66471.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:12    ogra          pips1, sure, sounds good ...
   02:12    pips1         ogra, good idea to make a call on the list, I was thinking the same thing :-)
   02:13    spacey        pips1: in a non intrusive way:)
   02:13    pips1         spacey, what do you mean?
   02:13    ogra          so you mean something like planet.edubuntu ?
   02:13    spacey        well i don't think its really important for the website
   02:13    ogra          or even hosting the blogs ?
   02:13    spacey        ogra: drupal can do both i think
   02:13    pips1         ogra, it could simply be a section (main navigation item) "blog" on the website
   02:14    ogra          yep
   02:14    ogra          ok, we're out of time, lets move that discussion to the list ...
   02:14    kjcole        Would it be useful to have a more formal web-based survey anywhere to collect
                          thoughts/wish-lists in some organized fashion?
   02:14    spacey        ok :)
   02:14    pips1         in drupal, every user could have their own blog, *if* we wanted
   02:15    ogra          any other artwork related info apart from the tech update ?
   02:15    kjcole        Oops. We ARE out of time, which means I'm going to be late for work...  ta-ta.
   02:15    pips1         every user = every user with an account
   02:15    flint         kjcole, stay well whatch the traffic!
   02:16    ogra          pips1, could you contact the LP people if its possible to attach the account management to
                          launchpad ?
   02:16    pips1         ogra, that's currently actually a todo item on highvoltage's list :-)
   === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:16    ogra          it would be nice if we culd do the member management of the website via the edubuntu team
                          in launchpad
   02:17    ogra          ah, k
   02:17    ogra          so anyone up with additional artwork tasks ?
   02:17    pips1         highvoltage, you still here?
   02:17    ajmitch       ogra: you'd need to use launchpad's authserver then, I think
   02:17    ogra          ajmitch, fine ... as long as it works :)
   02:18    ogra          ok, no artwork it seems ...
   02:18    ogra          JaneW, community/management issues you want to talk about ?
   02:19    highvoltage   pips1: sorry, just arrived in the office and people are bugging me
   02:19    ogra          ok, given that we are 20min over time, lets close that meeting now ... seems there are no
                          open topics anymore for now ...
   02:19    JaneW         ogra: *thinks*
   === flint flint is comfortable with the trouble he has caused for this morning...
   02:19    JaneW         oh yes we have entered Edubuntu into the Prix Arz Electronica 2006 competition
   02:20    JaneW         ogra: did you get my mail?
   02:20    ogra          yeah
   02:20    ogra          yep
   02:20    JaneW         you able to mail it off, or should I just do it from here?
   === mvo__ [n=egon@p54A66471.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:20    ogra          no, i'm fine mailing it
   02:20    JaneW         I thought it was more likely to get there from you
   02:20    JaneW         our snail mail service sucks
   02:20    highvoltage   flint: that's not the attitude!
   02:20    JaneW         thanks
   02:20    ogra          i'll trow it in today ...
   02:20    ogra          *throw
   02:20    JaneW         ogra: I praised you in your bio
   02:21    JaneW         and said you deserve and award!
   02:21    ogra          heh, really ?
   02:21    JaneW         and=an
   02:21    flint         highvoltage, indeed :^)
   02:21    ogra          :)
   02:21    JaneW         ogra: so I hope you get it :))
   02:21    flint         ogra, if for nothing else for stoic patience, and I mean that.
   02:21    JaneW         is everything else on track?
   02:22    highvoltage   JaneW: what's this that ogra's getting?
   02:22    flint         JaneW, everything is fine, nothing to see here... just move on... yea, that's it
   02:22    ogra          JaneW, apart from the CDs being oversized (which is never news)...
   02:22    JaneW         the entry form has to be printed signed and physically mailed to be valid
   02:22    JaneW         *shrug*
   02:22    JaneW         odd I know
   02:23    ogra          we were discussin the option to drop firefox... but to many things depend directly on it
                          (which is a bug imho)
   02:23    flint         is this Prix Arz Electronica 2006 a particular nationality, I would prefer french so as to
                          anger the bush admin.
   02:23    ogra          flint, austrian
   02:24    ogra          relatively popular in the german speaking europe ...
   === nomed [n=nomed@host16-58.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   02:24    flint         ogra, that will only mildly annoy our state department :^(
   02:24    ogra          ok, lest move to #edubuntu
   02:24    spacey        k

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2006-03-22 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:50:00 by 95)