(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting December 13, 2006


  • herd1 is out
  • ltsp is merged with debians tree
  • edsadmin, our new user and group management tool


  • look at integrating Edubuntu-artwork team with Ubuntu-art team: discuss in Mailing List first
  • keep sound and art in artwork team


  • Need to "demystify" help.ubuntu.com, wiki.ubuntu.com and doc.ubuntu.com
  • Need to integrate with Ubuntu Doc Project to increase community
  • Look into using Launchpad
  • Clean up wiki - use "tagging" concept from Ubuntu Wiki Team
  • Need to get going on marketing/advocacy drive


  • Pete Savage representing Edubuntu at BETT in January
    • invited by Open Forums Europe to join their stand
    • supply Pete with suggestions for contribution/showcasing
  • Richard Weideman attending Linux Conf Australia next year
    • doing presentation

[14:04:12] <RichEd> And let's kick off with TECHNICAL ... ogra ?
[14:05:10] <ogra> herd1 is out ....
[14:05:21] <ogra> ltsp is merged with debians tree ....
[14:05:50] <ogra> i'm just writing the main inclusion report for edsadmin, our new user and group management tool in edubuntu
[14:06:22] <willvdl> how does it relate to SCP?
[14:06:26] <ogra> i'm a bit behind on other stuff, had to merge gnome power manager yesterday and gnome screensaver is still on my list
[14:06:34] <ogra> willvdl, not at all
[14:06:55] <ogra> even though SCP could have an ldap mode in feisty+1 ;)
[14:07:14] <cbx33> let's get feisty out the way first ;)
[14:07:27] <ogra> the --workstation option is contained in the current ltsp package ....
[14:07:47] <ogra> but not 100% funct5ional until the user management is fixed
[14:08:16] <cbx33> we need SCP over fat clients too ;)
[14:08:23] <ogra> ugh
[14:08:25] <ogra> no :)
[14:08:54] <ogra> the name change will make that clearer i hope :)
[14:09:56] <ogra> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2006/01/24/0
[14:10:11] <ogra> i was wondering if we probably should check that out and ship it :)
[14:10:55] <ogra> i have no clue how far in development it is, but i think i'll take a look at it
[14:11:07] <cbx33> hmmm
[14:11:10] <cbx33> definitely
[14:12:00] <ogra> thats it from tech i think ... any questions ?
[14:12:14] <cbx33> can we shcedule meeting for SCP
[14:12:23] <ogra> sure
[14:12:33] <ogra> do you have time after the meeting ?
[14:12:37] <cbx33> hmm....
[14:12:38] <willvdl> what's the name change again?
[14:12:40] <cbx33> probably not
[14:12:46] <ogra> thin-client-manager
[14:12:54] <cbx33> maybe tonight....
[14:13:00] <cbx33> will do tomorrow in the day
[14:13:17] <cbx33> i try to ping you when I'm free for it....
[14:13:20] <ogra> oki
[14:13:40] <cbx33> let's say....I'll try and ping you for rest of week
[14:13:47] <cbx33> if we don;t get anywhere....we'll schedule
[14:14:01] <ogra> yeah, ltsp had about 100 patches i had to review ...
[14:14:26] <ogra> they are all in and it still builöds a working client :)
[14:15:13] <ogra> but is uninstallabvle currently because i changed from netkit-inetd to openbds-inetd
[14:15:28] <ogra> openbsd-inetd waits for main inclusion ...
[14:15:43] <cbx33> dude once again you are a legend ;)
[14:15:44] <ogra> but that should all be sorted until herd2 i hope
[14:16:00] <ogra> anyway, next topic ?
[14:16:22] <willvdl> Technical Docs
[14:16:41] <willvdl> can we talk artwork first?
[14:16:42] <ogra> right
[14:16:48] <ogra> as you like
[14:16:59] <willvdl> tech and community docs flow into each other
[14:16:59] <cbx33> ok artwork
[14:17:02] <cbx33> I blogged
[14:17:06] <cbx33> no responce...
[14:17:10] <ogra> there isnt anything tech doc specific anyway atm ...
[14:17:12] <cbx33> will follow up with ml posts tonight
[14:17:26] <cbx33> lisa and i finally have some free time to devote to it tonight
[14:17:42] <willvdl> can we make edubuntu artwork team part of ubutnu art team?
[14:17:42] <ogra> that sounds great
[14:18:07] <ogra> are the kubuntu and xubuntu ones part of it ?
[14:18:09] <willvdl> sub-team that is and merge the communities?
[14:18:16] <willvdl> think so
[14:18:24] <cbx33> willvdl: sounds good
[14:18:33] <RichEd> willvdl: & cbx33 : can you guys come up with a list of technical documentation ? and how we define it in comparison to user or promotional info & documenation
[14:18:49] <ogra> nope
[14:18:51] <willvdl> doing so already
[14:18:58] <ogra> none of the other teams are in ubuntu-art
[14:19:01] <cbx33> sure
[14:19:04] <RichEd> willvdl: I agree with sharing, but still think we need to maintain our own character
[14:19:09] <cbx33> RichEd: we're working on it all
[14:19:12] <willvdl> ogra, exactly
[14:19:15] <cbx33> RichEd: I agree
[14:19:33] <cbx33> we still use their ML
[14:19:38] <ogra> willvdl, we should discuss that on the artwork mailing list first i think
[14:19:40] <willvdl> we've covered this concept before. our community is small
[14:19:42] <cbx33> so how much more integration do you think?
[14:20:18] <RichEd> (thanks willvdl & cbx33 : with each document description we should also have an update procedure, and define the trigger that kicks off the update requirement = e.g. new rele4ase etc.)
[14:20:26] <willvdl> literally make it a sub-team of ubuntu art with sub-products (if applicable)
[14:20:41] <cbx33> RichEd: we need to see how this incorporates into handbook too
[14:20:48] <willvdl> and call for contributions from ubuntu-art?
[14:20:50] <RichEd> yep.
[14:21:02] <cbx33> willvdl: that is planned for this evening
[14:21:05] <willvdl> that way edubuntu-artwork still keeps it's flavour
[14:21:13] <cbx33> as I said I blogged about it and got 1 reply...saying...edubutnu artwork is good
[14:21:30] <juliux> cbx33, the sounds are great;)
[14:21:50] <RichEd> And also, we do not want to inherit unnecessary overhead or control from the Ubuntu Art team ...
[14:22:06] <cbx33> juliux: i was on about physical picuter artwork
[14:22:38] <willvdl> we still keep our team but make it easier for ubuntu community to contribute
[14:23:02] <cbx33> gonna hve to pop out for a meeting in a while......at work you see......can I ask if we can rotate the edubuntu meeting minutes....I just don;t get time to do them all.....maybe something someone new to edubuntu community may like tohelp out on to get a grasp on people and what things are happening
[14:23:04] <RichEd> in the Ubuntu setup ... is there a sound team as well as an artwork team ... or is it all under some sort of "presentation" umbrella
[14:23:19] <cbx33> RichEd: well last release the sound team was ... well me
[14:23:25] <cbx33> with Frank as my line manager
[14:23:44] <willvdl> cbx33, I'll do minutes today
[14:23:45] <RichEd> yep ... that's why I was asking about Ubuntu ... not edubuntu :)
[14:24:02] <willvdl> RichEd, not sure there is a sound team
[14:25:19] <willvdl> OK agreed then on artwork?
[14:25:35] <cbx33> willvdl: exactly what do you want to see?
[14:25:45] <ogra> yes, but give the artteam an opportunity to object, send a mail to their ML first
[14:25:48] <RichEd> So back to the art & sound ... should we have an artwork team and sound, or bring it together under "presentation"
[14:25:50] <willvdl> to link the LP teams better
[14:26:11] <willvdl> makes it easier for folk to understand
[14:26:13] <cbx33> presentation I think...
[14:26:13] <cbx33> sound is tiny
[14:26:16] <cbx33> well was in edgy anyway
[14:26:19] <ogra> i wouldnt care about sound now ... we dont even have art yet ...
[14:26:32] <cbx33> isnt art noncommunity in feisty anyway
[14:26:42] <willvdl> I prefer artwork -> includes sound, pics, icons
[14:26:52] <willvdl> probably
[14:26:52] <ogra> i'm convinced the ubuntu studio team will split out a sounds team at some point
[14:27:04] <RichEd> I'm thinking ahead to where we would be asking for contributors ... some volunteers may be into sound / some into art.
[14:27:18] <RichEd> ubuntu studio ? what does that cover ogra ?
[14:27:28] <cbx33> I'm off out to meeting
[14:27:30] <willvdl> but let's not dilute a thin community
[14:27:31] <cbx33> bb as soon as I can
[14:27:47] <ogra> RichEd, a derivative focused on sound production
[14:28:03] <ogra> ben just built a custom kernel for them we have in universe now
[14:28:19] <willvdl> ubuntustudio.com I think
[14:28:22] <RichEd> ohh .. I remember checking out that web page the other day
[14:28:35] <ogra> http://ubuntustudio.org/ right
[14:29:06] <ogra> that will draw artists together
[14:29:16] <willvdl> Shall we put tp the artwork ML: 
[14:29:19] <ogra> (at least sound artists)
[14:29:23] <willvdl> - sound & art inclusion
[14:29:24] <RichEd> I agree that we do not wabnt to have exgtra overhead, but one thing I would like to move to is a formal planning cycle for for each release ... as per part of our discussions re docs with Will.
[14:29:33] <willvdl> - closer alignment to ubuntu-art
[14:30:04] <RichEd> Some set list of things we need to follow up on *in good time* for each release so that there is not a big crunch at deadline time
[14:30:05] <ogra> i really dont see us doing any extra sound ... we never did ... so whats the point of that ?
[14:30:29] <RichEd> pet has done sound for us that is not in Ubuntu ? no ?
[14:30:32] <RichEd> *pete
[14:31:01] <ogra> we always used the ubuntu sounds and by experience sound designers will come if they want anysway ... we looked for new sounds for four releases and didnt find anyboduy until cbx33 stepped up
[14:31:16] <ogra> (in ubuntu that is)
[14:31:24] <ogra> edubuntu never had any specific sounds
[14:31:24] <willvdl> true, but the question is where do they go if they do come to us?
[14:31:40] <ogra> they go to the ubuntu-art team anyway
[14:31:54] <willvdl> I'd suggest leaving it there for now
[14:32:09] <ogra> right
[14:32:11] <RichEd> okie
[14:32:14] <ogra> thats what i mean ...
[14:32:21] <willvdl> agreed
[14:32:22] <ogra> why do we discuss sound here ? :)
[14:32:35] <RichEd> part of art
[14:32:41] <ogra> well
[14:32:47] <willvdl> ok, docs?
[14:33:08] <ogra> nothing special on the tech side yet ....
[14:33:38] <willvdl> will Topic Based Help affect you?
[14:34:01] <willvdl> not sure it will make it to feisty
[14:34:12] <ogra> depends
[14:34:48] <ogra> most of my personally written docs reside in /usr/share/doc/<packagename> ;)
[14:35:02] <ogra> the yelp docs will surely affect tech as well
[14:35:26] <willvdl> ogra, I'm watching that as closely as I can
[14:35:57] <willvdl> anyway, we've got svn access (cbx33)
[14:36:23] <willvdl> ogra, is there a real difference between the About doc and the Release-Notes?
[14:36:30] <willvdl> other than where they end up?
[14:37:00] <ogra> not sure
[14:37:07] <willvdl> they contain identical info
[14:37:17] <willvdl> not to worry, will pose to ubuntu-doc
[14:37:23] <ogra> usually the release notes also have a list of known bugs etc
[14:38:38] <willvdl> ok then, community & doc & web?
[14:38:40] <RichEd> From my outside perspective, About should be pretty consistent in its message, with some updates per version. Release Notes are usually about issues specific to the version release.
[14:38:52] <RichEd> which fits with ogra's comment
[14:39:04] <ogra> right
[14:39:20] <willvdl> RichEd, makes sense but I think they are different because the release notes are for the web really, not for the package
[14:39:43] <ogra> package ?
[14:39:47] <RichEd> ?? release notes for the web ?? why is it called release then ?
[14:39:48] <willvdl> ubuntu-doc.deb
[14:39:57] <ogra> ah
[14:40:04] <RichEd> not complaining, just trying to understand !
[14:40:15] <willvdl> It's taken me a long time to demystify
[14:40:27] <willvdl> and I'm writing up as much as I can :|
[14:40:45] <willvdl> In the SVN repo there are a few directories
[14:41:09] <willvdl> About | Release-Notes | Handbook (in our case) | Desktop Guide
[14:41:28] <ogra> note that jerome created an about edubuntu there as well
[14:41:37] <willvdl> and other stuff too but those mnentioned get packaged into a deb that goes into the distro
[14:41:44] <RichEd> From my proprietary days (pardon me) the term release notes is a doc on the CD whcih lets you know about bugs, install issues, hardware requirements, upgrade issues and migration issues, and somtimes some feature comments.
[14:41:44] <ogra> and where is the server guide ?
[14:41:50] <willvdl> that too
[14:42:15] <willvdl> RichEd, it is that, I'm just not sure where it lives on teh CD
[14:42:31] <willvdl> my mistake about it not being released
[14:42:31] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes
[14:42:40] <willvdl> ogra, that's on the web
[14:42:44] <ogra> thats our release notes
[14:43:41] <willvdl> they should end up on help.ubuntu.com?
[14:44:03] <ogra> i dont think so
[14:44:10] <willvdl> true
[14:44:21] <ogra> but then i think nothing should end up on h.u.c :)
[14:44:34] <ogra> (i'm not a big fan of the split)
[14:45:00] <willvdl> unfortunately it's there to stay :)
[14:45:15] <willvdl> I'm getting a handle on how it works practically
[14:46:01] <willvdl> basically, I want to propose something like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
[14:46:12] <willvdl> which is a temp planning page
[14:46:21] * RichEd agrees that the split over servers is confusing ... and makes searchign a lot more tricky
[14:46:31] <RichEd> *searching
[14:46:49] <willvdl> RichEd, eventually wiki,ubuntu.com will be pure team planning stuff
[14:47:01] <ogra> worse is the automatic forwarder ...
[14:47:28] <RichEd> ??? and where will the user documentation faqs etc. live ?? www.e.o
[14:47:40] <willvdl> h.u.c
[14:48:03] <ogra> well
[14:48:06] <ogra> its a wiki
[14:48:17] <ogra> people will dadd pages etc as they like
[14:48:27] <willvdl> yip :)
[14:48:40] <willvdl> h.u.c at least is closely watched by doc-team
[14:48:55] <ogra> right, aned they pull over docs from the wiki
[14:49:06] <ogra> but i still see the wiki as an entry point for new docs
[14:49:12] <willvdl> which it is
[14:49:30] <RichEd> I like that plan ... so we have space for "vounteer effort" and a process for "approval into formal info"
[14:49:35] <willvdl> it's the collaborative space
[14:49:48] <RichEd> It fits with our view of the community space and forums
[14:50:01] <willvdl> but ogra's concern, I imagine, is how to maintain an edubuntu space in h.u.c
[14:50:08] <ogra> right... what bothers me about it is that docs just vanish from the wiki
[14:50:30] <willvdl> ogra, it is badly managed
[14:50:43] <RichEd> We must make sure that there is a nice clear site guide prominent on www.edubuntu.org explaining the sub-domain sites clearly.
[14:51:12] <willvdl> RichEd, working on it :)
[14:51:12] <RichEd> ogra: who deletes them ... I thought delete rights were restricted ?
[14:51:34] <willvdl> nope
[14:51:36] <pips1> RichEd: agreed. but it looks like we aren't sure ourselves 100% how it works ;-)
[14:51:38] <ogra> the tool that moves them over to h.u.c
[14:51:54] <ogra> they vanish from the wiki
[14:52:02] <ogra> but get moved to h.u.c
[14:52:11] <RichEd> Is that a software tool or a "person tool" ?
[14:52:19] <ogra> no idea
[14:52:22] <willvdl> which would be fine if the links were ammended
[14:52:27] <ogra> right
[14:52:38] <RichEd> And does it leave any stub saying that the info can now be found ----> here ?
[14:52:41] <willvdl> ogra, my concern is release version tagging
[14:52:51] <willvdl> wiki docs go out of date
[14:52:54] <ogra> RichEd, it automatically forwards you to h.u.c
[14:53:08] <ogra> but links break inside of docs for example
[14:53:14] <RichEd> okay ... me thinks on that a bit
[14:53:16] <willvdl> docs in svn just get tagged or branched but not wiki docs
[14:53:33] <willvdl> there is a spec to try and combat this but it is a bit dormant
[14:53:35] <pips1> willvdl: moin moin offers categories for tagging, but not all wiki users know how to use them
[14:53:56] <ogra> and apart from that you can tag through the page name
[14:54:03] <ogra> which is the easiest way of tagging
[14:54:04] <willvdl> pips1 check on LP for the spec, it is very informative
[14:54:15] <pips1> oki
[14:55:09] <willvdl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance
[14:55:32] <willvdl> ogra, tag through the page name?
[14:55:36] <pips1> thanks, that helped :-)
[14:55:44] <willvdl> you mean namespace?
[14:55:48] <ogra> yeah
[14:56:04] <willvdl> might not work though if you maintain docs for multiple versions
[14:56:16] <willvdl> how do you build a hierarchy
[14:56:24] <RichEd> willvdl / ogra : explain that please ? tagging through namespace
[14:56:32] <willvdl> using the page name as the tag
[14:56:33] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edgy givews me a beutiful list of all edgy related docs
[14:57:14] <willvdl> category tagging is *the way*.
[14:57:22] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuXYZ does the same for edubuntu
[14:57:46] <ogra> right, categories are the better but less obvious way
[14:57:52] <willvdl> consider a page with info for both feisty and dapper
[14:57:54] <pips1> built-in easy tagging is one of the big benefits of Drupal ... so FAQ items etc. on our community site can have release tags... But this still doesn't solve the issue for the h.u.c wiki...
[14:58:11] <RichEd> And if someone creates a doc : https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edgy ... then that list disappears as a result of the page being found ?
[14:58:13] <ogra> (my mother wouldnt know about categoories, but could understand namespace tagging right away)
[14:58:17] <willvdl> then when dapper goes out of date and the new release goes in, you don't have to change the name
[14:58:24] <ogra> RichEd, yes
[14:59:06] <RichEd> willvdl: perhaps let pips1 and I explore the tagging aspect on Drupal for the community space ... and we can revist
[14:59:10] <ogra> willvdl, suchg pages will need updates for newer releases as well ... procedures change between releases ...
[14:59:52] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/RestrictedFormats is a good example ...
[15:00:09] <ogra> no it isnt ... its not wiki anymore, i forgot
[15:00:30] <pips1> also, as far as I understand, Drupal has some Docbook import/export capability, so we might actually be able to get documentation to/from the new communty site...
[15:00:43] <ogra> originally it had a set of subpages for different releases
[15:01:32] <willvdl> ogra. gotcha. but by merely changing the category each time, you make it possible to search
[15:01:47] <ogra> right
[15:02:18] <willvdl> whereas name tagging would require you to delete and recreate and relink pages
[15:02:51] <willvdl> OK, my main concern is on some "old" pages in wiki.e.o
[15:02:53] <pips1> nah, you want to use categories for tagging on the wiki.
[15:02:59] <willvdl> especially old planning pages
[15:03:34] <ogra> wipe them
[15:03:54] <ogra> unless they have any historical value
[15:03:55] <willvdl> will do. I'm checkingindividuall as I go. it takes time
[15:04:33] <cbx33> don;t delete my dhcp and pxe pages ;)
[15:04:49] <willvdl> I also want to move the edubuntu doc team into the ubunut-doc team
[15:05:07] <willvdl> I won't delete any tech stuff. I'll tag them CategoryCleanup
[15:05:37] <willvdl> again, I wish https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance would resolve
[15:06:08] <ogra> cbx33, arent they anyway under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
[15:06:32] <pips1> the way I see it, you want some ready-made categories ("tags") that every person adding content will use. However, wikis only have one "content type". A CMS like drupal can have several content types (news item, documentation item, etc) each with its own ready-made tags...
[15:06:49] <willvdl> We are short of doc contributers so I want to leverage ubuntu-doc team as much as possible. LaserJock and nixternal are in agreement
[15:07:08] <willvdl> I want closure with you folk, highvoltage etc.
[15:07:32] <cbx33> willvdl: I'm fine with it so long as I get SVN access ;)
[15:07:34] <ogra> sounds good
[15:07:41] <cbx33> I'm not doing submitting patches all over again ;)
[15:08:09] <willvdl> so the HandBook will follow pygi's original dream
[15:08:19] <willvdl> to be the mother of edubuntu info
[15:08:43] <willvdl> which we can draw from for marketing materials or any targeted handguides we might need
[15:09:10] <willvdl> When Topic Based Help matures, all this will be MUCH easier and semi-automatic
[15:09:24] Quit finalbeta has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[15:10:14] <willvdl> but we have to lower the barrier to entry for contributions so any suggestions are welcome :)
[15:10:37] <cbx33> you mean allow more people to add stuff?
[15:11:04] <willvdl> let people know what needs to be added, how (patches to doc-team) and when etc
[15:11:21] <willvdl> but the wiki also needs contributers
[15:11:27] <willvdl> and proofers
[15:11:32] <cbx33> indeed
[15:11:58] <willvdl> and as our marketing materials take shape, we need to make it easier for the Marketing Team to get involved in our plans
[15:12:05] <RichEd> willvdl: if we explain the process pipleline, and define what sort of help we need where, that may make it easier for people to volunteer ...
[15:12:33] <willvdl> yip. I have some ideas for the doc-team page
[15:12:59] <willvdl> because of h.u.c we have to do it through there
[15:13:12] <pips1> since I need to go now, just a little info from my side regarding community website + official site, I'm busy at my day job right up until xmas break :-/ I'm looking to pick up the ball on Jan 15th. However, I'm around now and next week if anything urgent needs done.
[15:13:14] <RichEd> keep me in the loop ... we'll be working the end-user community for their help as well
[15:13:22] <willvdl> that and we need to enter that community, the guys are beggins us to join
[15:13:48] <willvdl> can I get access rights to www.edubuntu.org?
[15:13:56] <willvdl> so I can make minor changes?
[15:14:17] <cbx33> willvdl: don;t see a reason why not
[15:14:30] <cbx33> pips1: can you make that happen? I don;t think I have the access for that
[15:14:31] <pips1> willvdl: sure. I create an account for you. but I'll have to be later today, as I have a meeting now.
[15:14:56] <willvdl> no problem.
[15:15:02] <pips1> willvdl: I'll get in touch soon
[15:15:12] <willvdl> pips1 cool
[15:16:15] <willvdl> does anyone have ideas on how to filter support requests to ubuntu channels when applicable?
[15:17:07] <ogra> willvdl, can you be more specific ?
[15:17:36] <willvdl> ogra, for #edubuntu stuff that should be in #ubuntu
[15:17:43] <willvdl> similarly for mailing list
[15:18:06] <cbx33> could we have a bot reply for it?
[15:18:13] <cbx33> like !bot john
[15:18:19] <ogra> well, usually we just point people to #ubuntu
[15:18:22] <cbx33> sorry john, this is not the right support chanel....blah blah
[15:18:30] <ogra> and i wouldnt like a mechanic approach here ...
[15:18:30] <willvdl> pretty clever bot
[15:18:40] <cbx33> not really
[15:18:44] <cbx33> ok
[15:18:47] <cbx33> np ogra
[15:18:58] <willvdl> ogra, how do kubuntu do it?
[15:19:03] <ogra> the same
[15:19:10] <RichEd> how much time does that sort of thing waste or impact at the moment ... not to significant is it ?
[15:19:21] <willvdl> I'll check their webspace to see what they disclaim
[15:19:25] <ogra> if people ask questions that are not kubuntu related, they get pointed to #ubuntu
[15:19:47] <ogra> but i dont think its an issue atm
[15:19:56] <willvdl> RichEd, not our time really but can be frustrating to folk looking for help in the wrong channel
[15:20:11] <ogra> we should think about it if we have 500 users in #edubuntu ;)
[15:21:07] <willvdl> ogra, do you ever forward edubuntu-xx@l.u.c to ubuntu ML?
[15:21:20] <ogra> no
[15:21:36] <willvdl> do you think we should?
[15:21:42] <ogra> but i point people to ubuntu-users in case the question isnt appropriate
[15:22:02] <willvdl> RichEd, we should do same for ubuntu-education
[15:22:07] <ogra> i think we should keep the hiuman factor involved
[15:22:30] <ogra> its a very important part of the ubuntu community to not automate such things
[15:22:47] <willvdl> not suggesting automation
[15:22:48] <RichEd> yep ... if people bring up product issues, then we send them to #edubuntu ... I am being careful with that
[15:22:49] <ogra> (at least where its possible to survive without automation)
[15:22:50] <cbx33> yes
[15:23:57] <willvdl> but if a mail comes through that asks for X issue (e.g.) then, although I can't answer it, I can respond and send to the right ML?
[15:24:21] <ogra> donmt crosspost ... but point the user to the right list
[15:24:51] <willvdl> gotcha. I'll take that advice
[15:25:10] <willvdl> it's subtle but I can see why
[15:25:37] <ogra> yeah, crossposting is generally considered evil and you should have a real valid reason to do it ...
[15:25:54] <willvdl> OK I'm done on docs:
[15:26:05] <willvdl> we've got planning to do for marketing stuff
[15:26:18] <cbx33> lots happening there
[15:26:20] <willvdl> we've got an idea for managing and tracking
[15:26:43] <willvdl> we _need_ to clean up our wiki
[15:27:04] <willvdl> and my suggestion boils down to intelligent use of |Launchpad
[15:27:11] * RichEd thanks willvdl & cbx33 for all the doc schlepp work they are doing ... it is important.
[15:27:38] <willvdl> RichEd, once demysified it makes sense
[15:27:47] <willvdl> in a wierd kinda way
[15:28:00] <cbx33> will be good for BETT ;)
[15:28:08] <willvdl> you going to BETT?
[15:28:19] <RichEd> willvdl: if we need to demystify it ... then it means it was too complex for the end user.
[15:28:38] <RichEd> Yep ... here's the conference news:
[15:28:56] <RichEd> We've been invited to share a stand at BETT in January 2007
[15:29:11] <RichEd> Pete Savage w00t will be our man on the ground
[15:29:45] <cbx33> so any tips....help.....advice
[15:30:01] <RichEd> We will help him with collateral, and I am trying to get some Canonical people to show support and come down to chat & network ... I think discussions with the suppliers would be a big help.
[15:30:01] <cbx33> and people to work on ESA once we get things sorted ;)
[15:30:36] <willvdl> RichEd, Jono?
[15:30:41] <RichEd> Jono Bacon is trying to arrange his schedule (trip to Aus) to be there for a day at least.
[15:31:09] <willvdl> right. we have a UK LoCo but I guess edubuntu folk are better
[15:31:48] <RichEd> we've been invited by Open Forums Europe
[15:31:58] <RichEd> (they have the stand 3m x 3m)
[15:32:39] <RichEd> Also there at the conference will be:
[15:32:40] <RichEd> Moodle SW60
[15:32:47] <RichEd> Equiinet E85
[15:32:50] <willvdl> LAMS?
[15:32:51] <RichEd> European Electronique D85
[15:32:55] <cbx33> yup I'll be speaking with them ;)
[15:32:58] <RichEd> the Internet Cafe run by Blueloop using SUSE Linux Enterprise
[15:32:59] <willvdl> excellent
[15:33:08] <cbx33> wow much more open source this time round
[15:33:18] <RichEd> That's who we know from the OSS world.
[15:33:31] <RichEd> Pete, can you start a wiki page for the conference ?
[15:33:35] <cbx33> RichEd: et all any advice on demoing
[15:33:58] <RichEd> And then people can add ideas ... we can announce the page next weeks meeting, ans discuss for a bit.
[15:34:21] <ogra> cbx33, juliux has some experience in demoing edubuntu
[15:35:34] <RichEd> yep ... we want a soft human approach ... linux is friendly ... not business
[15:35:46] <cbx33> maybe I can take some of our kids up there?
[15:35:54] <cbx33> from the school
[15:36:08] <juliux> cbx33, buy some candies for the booth then the people will come to you and you can talk with them,
[15:36:21] * ogra would vote for both ... business and friendly ... but if we only have one person at the stand it shouldnt be business :)
[15:36:21] <cbx33> ahhh good idea
[15:36:22] <RichEd> cbx33: if we end up funding your transport, perhaps they can give you seat on the bus to one of your kids from your school for the day trip ?
[15:36:23] <juliux> cbx33, and you can offer it to the people so you have first concat
[15:36:38] <juliux> cbx33, we did this at cebit and it was a great success
[15:36:57] <juliux> cbx33, because the people come to you without an interest in linux/ubuntu/edubuntu
[15:38:01] <RichEd> and cbx33 make sure you visit the other Open Source people at their stand while they are setting up, to show a united group presence ... they will send people across to you
[15:38:02] <juliux> sorry not interest
[15:38:29] <RichEd> if anyone has ideas, send to me and/or pete
[15:38:45] <RichEd> cbx33: can you set up a wiki page ?
[15:38:49] <cbx33> yes
[15:38:58] <juliux> cbx33, try to get a lof of ubuntu/edubuntu flyers
[15:39:00] <RichEd> it will make it easier for me to request the conference packs and other goodies
[15:39:31] <RichEd> --- Linux Conference Australia --- this happens the week after BETT - mid jan
[15:39:38] <cbx33> cool
[15:39:41] <juliux> cbx33, do you have some thinclients?
[15:39:48] <cbx33> shall I create a Conferences ;)
[15:39:55] <RichEd> There is a special education focus Mini-Conference
[15:39:58] <cbx33> and the Confereces/BETT2007
[15:40:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, do you know if your going to make lca?
[15:40:15] <RichEd> Mark has passed on an invite for me to attned, and he confirmed yesterday.
[15:40:16] <juliux> cbx33, the vistors loves to see thinclients
[15:40:24] <RichEd> So that's a yes.
[15:40:35] * Kamping_Kaiser prioritises education miniconf
[15:40:49] <cbx33> yes thin clients would be good
[15:40:50] <RichEd> Jono will be there at the main conference, and Keybuk as well, and ?Matthew? Garret
[15:41:07] <juliux> cbx33, do you have some?
[15:41:22] <ogra> cbx33, if you dont have thinc clients, just take two laptops ;)
[15:41:39] <RichEd> I have been asked to deliver a paper ... 30-60 mins ... and I am seeing if Jono and I can do a join presentation.
[15:41:46] <RichEd> *joint*
[15:41:57] <cbx33> yes was thinking of that
[15:42:24] <juliux> ogra, thinclients are cooler
[15:42:58] <cbx33> RichEd: any chance on getting some hardware borrowed from anywhere?
[15:43:30] <juliux> cbx33, should we send you some thinclients for BETT ?
[15:43:42] <juliux> cbx33, we have 3 thinclients for the expos in germany
[15:43:44] <RichEd> cbx33: we are sharing a stand by invite, so I don't think we can take too much space ... especially with equipment.
[15:44:00] <cbx33> RichEd: I know that
[15:44:09] <cbx33> we could have 2 laptops back to back
[15:44:41] <juliux> cbx33, take a notebook as server but it under the desk and the thinclient on the desk;)
[15:44:50] <cbx33> could do
[15:44:51] <RichEd> if what you can demomstrate live is significant compared to a canned demo ... then we can try
[15:44:52] <juliux> s/but/put
[15:45:03] <cbx33> hmm....would be nice to have an admin machine to show off like SCP etc
[15:45:12] <RichEd> that makes sense ...
[15:45:26] <juliux> cbx33, did you have a vga,ps2 switch?
[15:45:35] <cbx33> could do
[15:45:41] <ogra> even just running gcompris to get the attraction of kids is already helpful ;)
[15:45:43] <cbx33> but having them use a machine and me shutdown their browser
[15:45:57] <RichEd> What would be even cooler is to have a remote machine you can control ... perhaps on another (linux friendly) stand ...
[15:46:21] Join fernando has joined this channel (n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb).
[15:46:27] <cbx33> yes
[15:46:28] <RichEd> Put some ideas together ... and let's see what we come up with.
[15:46:30] <cbx33> in hte the cafe ;)
[15:47:27] <RichEd> Time is short ... let's take this as a side bar, and discuss in more detail next weeks meeting.
[15:48:04] <cbx33> ok
[15:48:08] <cbx33> I'll create the wiki
[15:48:10] <RichEd> We'l also cover some discussion on LCA next week, but this is an early call for potential networking with LoCo or LUG people in Australia.
[15:49:01] <RichEd> This will probably be my *only* visit to Australia (and ony Edubuntu / Education visit) ... so I would like to meet as many people as I can.
[15:49:38] <RichEd> I am happy to say a day extra (before or after) and perhaps to do 1 internal travel trip ...
[15:49:59] <RichEd> I'll also set up a wiki page, and chat to people like Bimberi etc.
[15:50:15] <ogra> make sure to meet jdub if you are there :)
[15:50:47] <RichEd> Yep. JaneW has already said I must, and she said somethign about his wife being an organiser (of LCA I think)
[15:51:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> correct
[15:51:15] <RichEd> Briefly, on my presentation: I want to do some stuff on Edubuntu and the Ubuntu family, but also to talk about how we can try to extend the Open Source Development philosophy & community collaboration into areas like support for education, and education projects themselves.
[15:52:16] <RichEd> So I will do an overview of Edulinux ... and our Community Space ... with the idea being that we want to attract as many people to join our (ed)Ubuntu communtiy and lists as possible - even if they use another distro.
[15:52:57] <RichEd> When they see our superior distro, and the brilliant community we have, then they will migrate themselves when they see the light./
[15:54:00] <RichEd> That's all from me ... any other topics or loose ends from anyine else ?
[15:55:00] <willvdl> I'll do minutes a bit later
[15:55:39] <RichEd> ogra ? anything else ?
[15:55:43] <ogra> nope
[15:55:49] <ogra> i'm fine
[15:57:01] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: I'll mail you with my arrangements for the trip. Are you in or close to Sydney ?
[15:57:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i dont live close, but i will be going to the conf
[15:57:38] <RichEd> Great. I'm booking at Harmony b.t.w. for accomodation.
[15:57:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> thats..*thinks* 5am thursday
[15:58:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm in the accom you can get at the conf. i'm going pov this year :)

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2006-12-13 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:32:11 by 95)