(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting January 10, 2007


  • Herd 2 announced this week
    • Call for testers
  • new sound architecture for LTSP will have volume and microphone support
    • licence glitches with new flash support library
  • Keep discussion on secnond CD inclusion alive


  • prepare SVN checkout for edubuntu-docs package

  • website and wiki need updating
  • Edubuntu leaflet created for BETT 2007


  • Edubuntu represented with OFE at BETT 2007
  • Education community site starting soon
  • Proposed call for new Edubuntu Council member on Mailing List
    • Nominations on 31st Jan
    • Vote on 7th Feb
  • Will van der Leij (willvdl) elected as Edubuntu Member

01:04   ogra    sorry, building herd2 alongside the meeting
01:04   ogra    so most important for tech ...
01:05   ogra    we'll have herd2 this week, PLEASE TEST !!!!
01:05   ogra    the next CD build on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/ should be ready to test
01:05   ogra    (20070110)
01:06   ogra    apart from that i worked massively on the new sound architecture for ltsp last week, we'll soon have volume control and mic support there
01:06   ogra    there are some licence gliches with thze flash support library we need for backwards compatibility with the old esd architecture ...
01:07   ogra    i'm not yet sure we'll get that sorted ...
01:07   ogra    if we dont, we wont have sound support on systems where admins upgraded the server but not their ltsp install
01:07   willvdl hmm, flash licences.
01:07   ogra    so that will need mentioning in the docs for feisty
01:07   ogra    its not flash
01:08   ogra    the new flash9 offers a programmer API to attach any kind of sound backend
01:08   willvdl thought I was confused
01:08   RichEd  ogra: please explain "upgraded the server but not LTSP install" ...
01:08   ogra    but to make it possible to hack on that they introduced an opensourced library ...
01:08   Mithrandir      willvdl: the libflashsupport library uses openssl and lgpl-ed libs which uses gpl-ed libs, and the openssl and GPL licences are incompatibly.
01:08   Mithrandir      s/y.$/e./
01:09   willvdl thanks
01:09   ogra    RichEd, the ltsp clients have their own linux system *inside* the server
01:09   ogra    you can get away with only upgrading the server and keep the old installation of ltsp in the old state ...
01:09   RichEd  so why would someone update the server only ? any decent reason ?
01:09   rodarvus        ogra, anything you want specifically tested besides that for Herd 2?
01:10   ogra    which usually does no harm unless we change the package selection in ltsp massively
01:11   ogra    rodarvus, in the links sercion of the edubuntu part on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current are some instructions and links to more
01:11   ogra    *section
01:11   kgoetz  RichEd: not thinking about it would be my excuse ;)
01:11   rodarvus        nice
01:12   RichEd  my issue is : do we worry about a workaround / fix or do we just document what they should be dong themselves.
01:12   RichEd  doing not dong :)
01:12   ogra    edsadmin (piece of the network auth spec) also has license issues ...
01:12   kgoetz  RichEd: you shouldnt force people to upgrade
01:12   ogra    seems feisty will become my bureocracy release, where i have more to do with licenses and main inclusion reports than code :)
01:13   ogra    RichEd, why should i upgrade a server that works fine ...
01:13   rodarvus        ogra, Testing/Current lists 20061025 as current edubuntu. I suppose cdimage.u.c has something newer, right? :)
01:13   ogra    many admins will go with the "never touch a running system" approach
01:14   ogra    rodarvus, yes, Testing/Current will get an overhaul anyway, i just wanted to point to the testing procedure
01:14   RichEd  ogra & kgoetz: but they have upgraded the server ??? so they have made a decision, but only gone 1/2 way thourgh the process ... or is that not a valid thought appraoch
01:14   rodarvus        sure
01:14   ogra    the links have some edubuntu sepcific tests ...
01:14   kgoetz  RichEd: upgrading clients and upgraing servers is two thoughts, not one
01:14   ogra    apart from that the normal ubuntu testing should be done
01:14   kgoetz  and, for that matter, two actions
01:14   ogra    right
01:15   ogra    at some point i want to automate that so update-amanger will upgrade the thin clients as well
01:15   kgoetz  i'd be... 'unhappy' if i got forced to upgrade parts of my ltsp 'because you said'
01:15   ogra    but thats rather something for feisty+2
01:15   RichEd  But the LTSP client resides in the server ... so essentially it is an update of the one box ?
01:15   ogra    or for +1 if we get more manpower ;)
01:16   ogra    RichEd, try to see it as two distinct systems
01:16   kgoetz  RichEd: the packages are on one host yes, where they get installed and how is two seperate processes
01:16   ogra    right
01:16   ogra    a future target is to merge that ...
01:16   kgoetz  we can both have a ~ on a server, we dont mess with each others ~/Desktops though :)
01:16   RichEd  okay ... I am happy to accept that, just want to make sure we are not creating work for ourselves when "a dual upgrade" may be a more natural appraoch.
01:16   RichEd  *approach
01:17   ogra    its just something that we need to document
01:17   ogra    we always forced upgrades of ltsp ... even rebuilds ...
01:17   ogra    but ltsp is now in a state where thats not urgently necessary anymore
01:18   ogra    so people who want to keep the old client setup can do so ...
01:18   ogra    but will loose flash sound ...
01:18   RichEd  I'm just trying to understand if there would be a valid reason / circumstances why someone would want to update the server only.
01:19   ogra    (unless i find that libflashsupport works without libssl support)
01:19   ogra    RichEd, because they forgot about the fact that ltsp needs to be upgraded separately for example ...
01:20   RichEd  ogra: but that is an omission ... not a reason :)
01:20   ogra    anyway, lets not discuss that to death, time is limited
01:20   RichEd  okay
01:20   ogra    just note that we need that documented, i'll care for the technical side
01:20   willvdl noted
01:21   ogra    beyond that i merged a lot of ltsp fixes from contributors (i reviewed about about 100 patches during the christmas holidays)
01:22   ogra    and had to care for my general ubuntu stuff (gnome-screensaver, gnome-power-manager, package merges)
01:22   ogra    thats it from the tech side
01:22   willvdl I don't imagine cbx33 has had much time to work on the MOTD/ldm login thingy he showed last time
01:22   ogra    he should rather get up to speed with SCP ;)
01:22   ogra    even ldm/MOTDS is a nice thing i'd rather see that SCP is done by release ;)
01:23   willvdl Reminder to all, Pete Savage is representing us at BETT at the moment
01:23   RichEd  ogra: w.r.t. rodarvus and his increased bandwidth for education ... can you "sit with him" to see what he can take over naturally to ease your load ?
01:24   rodarvus        ogra, we can do it anytime you want, just arrange the meeting when you're available
01:24   ogra    starting with CD testing, seed management and management of the metapackages would be a big help already ...
01:24   rodarvus        (after herd 2, I suppose)
01:24   ogra    oh, and CD building ...
01:24   ogra    that should suffice for a start ...
01:24   rodarvus        nice
01:25   RichEd  ogra: can you list all of the "sections / components" you look after and mail to rodarvus and myself. i'll need this for the overview page anyway
01:25   ogra    RichEd, ok
01:25   RichEd  thanks
01:26   ogra    rodarvus, i'll be travelling a lot this cycle ... so we should see that you are up to speed with most of the above before herd4
01:26   rodarvus        indeed
01:26   rodarvus        we need to do that asap
01:26   ogra    there might be coming CD builds where i'm not around or even able to get online ...
01:26   rodarvus        we can arrange for me to arrive "at work" a few hours earlier every day, so we have more time to communicate
01:27   ogra    note that we wont need to care for ppc to much
01:27   rodarvus        (while you're passing me these duties)
01:27   ogra    so if you cant test it thats ok for a milestone
01:27   rodarvus        ok. I have ppc here, but it needs to be arranged a few days in advance for testing
01:28   ogra    (ppc is officially a community port from feisty on)
01:28   rodarvus        yup
01:28   RichEd  Anyone with anything here ?
01:28   ogra    well, its up to you ... if you can test it we dont need to care to much on the official side ... its expected that the community takes more responsibilities here
01:29   ogra    s/can/cant/
01:29   willvdl In the classic tradition of me mixing tech docs with other docs...
01:29   willvdl It's been mentioned a few times that we need to look at the scope of the handbook carefully
01:30   willvdl so that we can make use of topic based help etc. in the future (and present)
01:32   ogra    could someone from our doc team prepare a svn checkout of selected docs i casn put into the edubuntu-docs package ? so we can get up to speed with the packaging after herd2 ?
01:32   ogra    (and send it to me)
01:33   willvdl will ask on the doc-team channels
01:33   ogra    edubuntu-docs is still empty ... and you guys know the quality of the specific docs and whicdh are shippable and which not (i hope) ...
01:33   willvdl perhaps LaserJock or nixternal might be of most help here
01:34   ogra    yep
01:35   ogra    oh, LaserJock started a nice discussion on the ML about packages for the second CD ... please participate there to keep it running ... we need an applist ...
01:36   ogra    (and tons of main inclusion reports)
01:36   willvdl will speak to him about maintaining the discussion on the wiki-spec page
01:36   willvdl moodle popped up a few times
01:37   ogra    well i think we reach more people through the ML
01:37   ogra    i know :(
01:37   ogra    moodle is my big nightmare
01:37   ogra    it needs repackaging
01:37   willvdl ogra, meaning his list is under his wiki "home"
01:37   ogra    thats fine, we can put the final list somewhere else ...
01:38   ogra    this way people wont start linking to a WIP doc ;)
01:38   willvdl I like WIP docs :)
01:38   ogra    i know ;)
01:39   willvdl on the wiki side: still busy archiving, cleaning and scraping stuff around
01:39   willvdl whenever I get a chance
01:39   ogra    yeah, some people already complained :P
01:39   RichEd  ?? about ?
01:40   ogra    there was a breezy user who was looking for the lts.conf parameters wikipage ...
01:40   ogra    i wouldnt even have expected people to still run breezy ltsp ... it was so minimal
01:40   willvdl I stopped deleting stuff without redirects after that
01:40   ogra    thats good
01:41   willvdl ogra, the info is still there (never removed any breezy stuff) but was duplicated on help.u.c
01:41   RichEd  have we come to any conclusion / standard as to how we maintain similar info for releases ?
01:41   ogra    willvdl, right, but i couldnt point him to my bookmarked page :)
01:41   willvdl the doc-team has a spec on the subject
01:42   willvdl so any technical docs that end up on help.u.c is at the command of the doc-team
01:42   willvdl they are aware of the issues but still need to resolve a plan
01:42   ogra    which is represented by LaserJock and nixternal for us
01:43   willvdl for release notes, etc or anything that goes on wiki.u.c, we just need to be intelligent on our naming
01:43   ogra    but i'd like to not put to much load on LaserJock here, he's busy with assembling the second CD list and he wanted to take a lot of the MIRs
01:44   willvdl when pips1 is around, we can put some effort into shaping our wiki pages to be release specific etc.
01:45   ogra    good
01:45   RichEd  okay ... we must get this right ... it will avoid a lot of frustration & admin
01:46   RichEd  ready to move on to artwork ?
01:46   willvdl it is straightforward enough to do. as ogra put it last time, simply using the namespace correctly solves most things
01:46   ogra    right
01:46   RichEd  === ARTWORK ===
01:47   ogra    well, given that cbx33 is missing and AliasVegas isnt around either ... what about artwokr ?
01:47   RichEd  As willvdl mentioned ... cbx33 is not here today ... he is at BETT ... more on that later.
01:47   ogra    there was still no mail or something to the artwork mailing list ...
01:47   ogra    ah
01:48   RichEd  Do you have any urgent artwork issues ogra ... or can we leave the topic for next week ?
01:48   ogra    i'd really like to see something going on ... would be nice to have the artwork on schedule ... feature freeze is on feb 8th
01:48   willvdl okie. will chat to cbx33 about it again when he's back
01:48   ogra    by then we should at least have a basic concept ...
01:49   RichEd  moving on ...
01:49   RichEd  === COMMUNITY & DOCUMENTATION & WEB ===
01:50   RichEd  Community wise ... edubuntu is represented at 2 big events this week and next week:
01:50   RichEd  #1 BETT show in the UK - today, tomorrow & friday
01:51   RichEd  Pete Savage (cbx33) is sharing a stand with Open Source Europe on our behalf
01:51   willvdl : OpenForum Europe
01:51   RichEd  (thanks)
01:51   RichEd  Jono Bacon is cruising the exhibition halls & training area and networking for Edubuntu and Ubuntu community
01:52   ogra    in case you didnt read the UWN ... there is also http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8392/53/
01:52   RichEd  If anyone is interested: http://www.bettshow.com/
01:52   ogra    :)
01:52   RichEd  <quote>
01:52   RichEd  BETT is the world's leading educational information & communications technologies (ICT) event, attracting 600 educational suppliers and over 28000 visitors, and bringing together the global teaching and learning community for four days of innovations and inspirations.
01:52   RichEd  <endquote>
01:53   RichEd  BETT = British Education and Training Technology
01:54   RichEd  There are a few other Open Source exhibitors there, and we hope that there will be some good networking with them.
01:54   RichEd  #2 Linux Conference Australia - in Sydney ... next week Mon-Fri
01:55   RichEd  I'll be representing Edubuntu there, and will be delivering a presentation at the Education Mini Conference.
01:55   juliux  i in germany we will present ubuntu via edubuntu and edubuntu on all big expos
01:56   RichEd  Part will be a presentation on Edubuntu and where we are and where we have come from ...
01:56   willvdl cbx33 created an edubuntu leaflet for BETT
01:57   willvdl haven't had time yet to pop it into the marketing team channels but will do so soon
01:57   RichEd  And then I will be trying to get a discussion going around how we take the spirit of Open Source software developement into the classroom to get the teachers & learners working in a collaborative way to address software / curriculum.
01:57   juliux  willvdl, cool
01:58   juliux  willvdl, did you have a link to the leaflet?
01:58   willvdl RichEd, are there workshops or just presentations?
01:58   RichEd  So I hope to recruit people for our mailing lists and community, more from the end-user / education space than from the technical space.
01:58   willvdl juliux, not at the moment but can email to you
01:58   juliux  willvdl, thxs
01:58   willvdl RichEd, great
01:59   RichEd  Will I have 40 mins available ... I will present for about 25-30 and then explain how we are now looking at addressing the gap between desktop o/s and curriculum delvivery.
01:59   RichEd  *delivery
02:00   RichEd  I'll try to get people discussing in the meeting room, and then will take it offline for informal chats. There are quite a few Open Source and Education contacts there, also giving presentations, so we will be able to share ideas.
02:01   RichEd  Ubuntu is also well represented at the main conference ... 3 or 4 presentations and some demo's as well.
02:01   RichEd  This is the key Open Source conference for Australia for 2007 ... so we will have a good joint presence.
02:01   RichEd  ---
02:02   kgoetz  i'll try and make it to edubuntu stuff, just let me know when it is ;)
02:02   RichEd  kgoetz: monday :)
02:02   kgoetz  RichEd: ah, ok. i'll be there :)
02:03   RichEd  Further on the community side, pips1 will be available from next week, and we will be (finally) getting the education community site. Lots of discussion and planning has been done, and now we need to get the site running.
02:04   RichEd  ---
02:04   willvdl and we need nominations for the EC
02:04   RichEd  ogra: is the EC vote on the first meeting of the month ?
02:04   ogra    usually, yes
02:05   RichEd  Either way, I'd like to nominate willvdl & cbx33
02:05   RichEd  How many positions do we need to fill ?
02:05   ogra    but for a new EC memeber we should first have a call on the ML and some nominations
02:05   ogra    only jeromes
02:06   ogra    i thought about having someone nominate someone on the ML, if this gets a second the person is on the list for the vote
02:06   RichEd  And for the balance of community / canonical ... do we need an external or internal person ?
02:06   RichEd  I presume community if it is to replace Jerome ?
02:06   ogra    we initially said we want more community members than employees
02:06   RichEd  And what dictates the size of the EC ?
02:07   ogra    but i dont really see a reason why we shouldnt rotate that and say this time we'll have more employees, next time more community people again
02:07   ogra    we wanted to have an odd number to make decisions easier ... and five sounded like a good number
02:08   ogra    there was never a dictate for amount of members
02:08   ogra    we can go on with four as well ...
02:08   ogra    even with three
02:08   RichEd  3 is a bit low ...
02:08   ogra    i like odd numbers more though ...
02:08   ogra    right
02:08   RichEd  let's get up to 5 again in feb i think
02:09   ogra    but more than 5 is overkill
02:09   ogra    right
02:09   willvdl agree
02:09   ogra    even though we're only two EC members here atm, do we want to go over wills application ?
02:09   ogra    (if he wants to go for EC he needs tzo be a member anyway)
02:10   RichEd  Can you put a call out on the mail list for nominations this month ... and we consider nomination on the 31st Jan and vote on wed 7th Feb
02:10   ogra    yep
02:10   RichEd  Then we can make sure we have a god EC representation at both meetings.
02:10   ogra    yep
02:11   ogra    will is on the agenda ....
02:11   RichEd  sorry ...
02:12   ogra    i mean its a no brainer anyway ...
02:12   willvdl I have a brain
02:12   ogra    looking at the wikipage there are a lot of substantial contributions ... (would be odd if not for a paied contributor ;) )
=== RichEd add strong support for willvdl
02:13   ogra    so since i know what will does and how much time he invests in edubuntu thats a general +1 from me
02:14   ogra    RichEd, so thats a +1 as well ?
02:14   RichEd  indeed
02:14   RichEd  +1.5 if that is allowed
02:14   ogra    oki, i'll contact LaserJock and highvoltage to confirm ...
02:14   willvdl why thank you
02:15   ogra    hmm, we could even set a special rule that two voices suffice as long as we're only 4 members in the EC
02:15   willvdl 50% quorum
=== ogra thinks for four weeks that should work :)
02:15   RichEd  i'd say rather get support from 1 more via email ...
02:15   ogra    RichEd, do you agree ?
02:15   ogra    ok
02:15   ogra    i'll care then
02:16   ogra    willvdl, 50% welcome then ;)
02:16   willvdl Thanks :)
02:16   RichEd  50% could lead to a split
02:16   RichEd  And also I am sure that highvoltage will give +1 witrhout even thinking about it :)
02:16   RichEd  *wirhout
02:18   RichEd  Okay ... are we ready to wrap up for today ? I have a whack of a document pack to get through before silbs leaves the office today.
=== highvoltage says a belated +1 for willvdl
02:21   RichEd  thanks highvoltage :)

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2007-01-10 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:37:25 by 95)