(X) This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

Meeting January 31, 2007


  • edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound: missing one main inclusion for alsa-mixer, otherwise done
  • ltsp-management-gui: python-ltsp (the backend module) is about done
  • student-control-panel-upgrade: coming along
  • edubuntu-network-auth-server: spec needs changes
  • edubuntu-auth-client: will be ajmitch's login tool or a static config
  • trying to get Moodle into Main
    • wwwconfig-common issues
    • Moodle will go on server install
  • edubuntu-on-two-cds needs inclusions


  • proof concpets being drawn
  • clock idea for LDM login is on hold
  • kwii (Ken Wimer) working on artwork for feisty


  • Moodle docs contained in Moodle
    • Not in Yelp yet

09:05   RichEd  Shall we kick off ... with (drum roll) Oliver on Tech !
09:06   ogra    specs:
09:06   ogra    edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound: missing one main inclusion for alsa-plugins, apart from that it's done and rocking the house :)
09:07   ogra    ltsp-management-gui: python-ltsp (the backend module) is about done, still have to do the gui rewrite .. will start over the weekend
09:07   ogra    student-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
09:07   ogra    its soooo sexy !!!!!!
09:07   cbx33   it's going well
09:08   cbx33   and the rewrite of the DES encyrption bit switcher worked
09:08   cbx33   so we can now ship VNC stuff
09:08   cbx33   which was in jeperdy at one point
09:08   ogra    edubuntu-network-auth-server: the thing im fighting with since i came back from oslo, spec will need a bunch of changes and the auth server will only be set up for new installs for now
09:08   highvoltage     cbx33: very nice stuff
09:08   ogra    we wont be able to use the planned frontend, its simply to buggy
09:09   cbx33   :(
09:09   ogra    i'm lookinf for something in replacement atm
09:09   ajmitch which frontend?
09:09   ajmitch edsadmin?
09:09   ogra    we could take lat which is considered for upstream inclusion at some point as well
09:09   ogra    ajmitch, yep
09:09   ajmitch hm, lat is nice but may be complex
09:10   ajmitch plus we need to fix the package so it builds
09:10   ogra    after using it extensively for one week i saw more chrashes that i would have expected
09:10   ogra    it will be some major work to get it to a level where we could ship it as default
09:10   ajmitch unfortunate
09:10   ogra    i havent seen any crashers with lat yet
09:11   ajmitch 1.2.x FTBFS
09:11   ogra    but i extremely dislike its UI
09:11   ogra    so i'm still looking around
09:11   ajmitch oh that's a simple fix, I'll do that now
09:11   highvoltage     UI sounds like something cbx33 is good at, so that will probably be the next phase :)
09:11   ajmitch if you could check out lat 1.2.x, it may be an improvement over 1.0.7
09:11   cbx33   heheh
09:12   ogra    highvoltage, well, lat is mono
09:12   cbx33   ogra, and...
09:12   cbx33   heheh
09:12   cbx33   I can learn mono
09:12   cbx33   heheh
09:12   ogra    and edsadmins UI is fine it just explodes all the time
09:12   ajmitch C# is easy :)
09:13   ogra    anyway, edubuntu-network-auth server should be done before feature freeze, even though it moght not yet be the ful specced variant
=== pips1 googles edsadmin and finds 'Erudite Directory Service Admin'
09:13   ogra    edubuntu-auth-client will either be ajmitch's login tool ... but i dont know the status
09:13   ogra    or a static config that points to the local edubuntu server for now
09:13   ajmitch mostly there, I've got a few spare days
09:14   ajmitch public holiday in a couple of days :)
09:14   ogra    important for me with these two specs is that we got all bits and pieces in this time  ...
09:14   cbx33   only a week left
09:14   ajmitch plus you were going to do a metapackage that asks debconf questions & preseeds?
09:14   ogra    we can improve beyond basic authentication over the releases
09:14   ajmitch I guess that'll have to come once I ship this for you
09:14   Mithrandir      (we're about a week from creature freeze, uh, feature freeze)
09:14   ajmitch Mithrandir: yep, I know :)
09:14   ogra    ajmitch, i'm doing a udeb for feisty ...
09:15   ajmitch ogra: ok, using debconf?
09:15   ogra    ajmitch, which will then do the preseeding
09:15   ogra    yep
09:15   ajmitch great
09:15   ajmitch define what you need preseeded & I'll grab that
09:15   ogra    essentially i dropped the metapackage idea for feisty ... its just to big but i want at least an ldap server in place
09:15   ajmitch ok
09:16   ogra    else development will get stuck in feisty+1 .... too much of our future plans depends on network auth
09:16   ajmitch using smbldap, I expect
09:16   ogra    i was planning to, but if that doesnt make FF, i'm also fine with a simple ldap auth ...
09:16   ajmitch ah right
09:17   cbx33   ogra, ++ about the future plans
09:17   cbx33   hehe
09:17   ogra    the chorus here is "network authentication" no matter how ...
09:17   ajmitch I'll get this client stuff done & working before I offer to help with server this week
09:17   ogra    we can improve in the future, having a working skeleton is the start for that ...
09:18   highvoltage     ogra++ about network authentication policy!
09:18   cbx33   ogra, I'm gonna need details of whatever we do for the book
09:18   cbx33   but then you'll see where we are once you've read it all
09:18   highvoltage     ogra: I've found that easy painless authentication isn't too bad with sshfs, even though it uses fuse, wich may put off some people
09:19   rodarvus        highvoltage, not sure I understand the reasoning for that?
09:19   ajmitch ogra: ok, I'll get this stuff in a day or two, no matter what :)
09:20   ajmitch I have to run off to work now
09:20   rodarvus        (fuse being a reason for people to be scared)
09:20   highvoltage     rodarvus: it's basically for exporting a filesystem to a client that's booting from a seperate /
09:21   rodarvus        (but I might be missing something, of course)
09:23   rodarvus        (ogra is likely timed out, btw)
09:23   rodarvus        his connection, I mean
09:23   RichEd  i was wondering
09:24   Burgwork        ogra, ajmitch: lat has major crashing issues
09:24   RichEd  Anybody with any other tech news in the meanwhile ?
09:24   RichEd  rodarvus do you want to let people know about your moodle packaging efforts ?
09:25   rodarvus        I do, but I'd like ogra to be here
09:25   RichEd  okie ... anyone else ?
09:25   cbx33   don't think so
09:25   rodarvus        since he raised a point on wwwconfig-common I'm interested in hearing
09:25   RichEd  I'll introduce the moodle bit then ... we're trying our best to get moodle integrated into Main for Edubuntu.
09:26   RichEd  I was in LCA a week or so ago, and met Martin Douigiamas, the founder of moodle.
09:26   RichEd  He is keen for us to succeed, and to work on spreading both products as a bundle.
09:27   RichEd  LAMS and moodle are also looking at integration and interoperability, and LAMS are also keen to see a Edubuntu / moodle / LAMS easy install bundle.
09:27   cbx33   RichEd, this is all going to be awesome
09:27   cbx33   ogra, must get hacked off with his net connection
09:28   RichEd  The good news for us is that many people want moodle and LAMS as a resource tool, and just want a stable server underneath. That means we can get into libraries and universities and schools even if they are using other distros on the server and desktop space.
09:28   cbx33   yup
09:29   RichEd  moodle is also working on a "moodle cloud" where you can set your server up and join a voluntary clound, and when a user authenticates against any singel server, they are free to move across all servers with the same log-in.
09:29   RichEd  *cloud
09:29   RichEd  so our steps are: #1 bundle moodle with main
09:30   Burgwork        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportMoodle
09:30   Burgwork        that needs to be dealt with
09:30   RichEd  rodarvus is busy with that, he'll give an update when ogra is back
09:30   rodarvus        I can start my technical overview on the process
09:30   rodarvus        but would like ogra to be here
09:31   RichEd  step#2 will be a Edubuntu/moodle/database single CD .iso - easy intall, minimal questions and config
09:31   RichEd  so we hope that moodle will recommend our image as being the simplest up & go option.
09:31   Burgwork        RichEd: for that we need to create a moodle task, I suspect
09:32   rodarvus        actually, more than that, what I would like to see (or do, even) is a graphical installation/configuration tool for moodle
09:32   RichEd  yep, but moodle will cooperate and we can chew it from both ends.
09:32   pips1   Burgwork: 'moodle task' = ?
09:32   cbx33   http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg - meet the new feisty edubuntu homies
09:32   Burgwork        rodarvus: better to have the graphical client be a web-based thingy, I suspect
09:32   Burgwork        pips1: using tasksel for the installer
09:32   RichEd  and step#3 will be LAMS but that will be feisty+1 or +2
09:33   highvoltage     pips1: debian terminology ;)
09:33   RichEd  cbx33: you can go ahead ...
09:33   cbx33   AliasVegas, has been hard at work
09:33   rodarvus        Burgwork, its kind of a chicken and egg problem, but can be dealt with
09:33   pips1   Burgwork: ta
09:33   AliasVegas      lol
09:33   pips1   cbx33, AliasVegas niiiice
09:33   Burgwork        rodarvus: if you install the moodle server, you get asked for an IP and then told to go to that IP with your workstation
09:33   cbx33   pips1, -cbx33
09:33   cbx33   hehe
09:34   rodarvus        Burgwork, I'm talking about the server configuration, to be honest
09:34   Burgwork        rodarvus: for that we could use debconf
09:34   rodarvus        which is not trivial, and currently is our main point of headaches
09:34   rodarvus        Burgwork, we do
09:35   pips1   AliasVegas: I really like the way they poke fun with the 'victory' sign :_D
09:35   rodarvus        but lets move to artwork, and get back to moodle when ogra is here
09:35   AliasVegas      heheh :P
09:35   rodarvus        otherwise we'll have to discuss this twice :)
09:35   Burgwork        indeed
09:36   rodarvus        (but rationale is: some of the configuration is waaaay beyond what you'd do from inside debconf)
09:37   AliasVegas      The clock idea for the ldm login screen has been put on hold till next release....not enough time to complete the code for the clock and it seems like a better idea to do it when the clock can be included
09:38   AliasVegas      pips1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
09:38   cbx33   that was the idea pips1
09:39   cbx33   and it will happen
09:39   cbx33   just not for feisty
09:40   RichEd  we were also talking about the possibility of making the message board realtime ... for school wide news and announcements
09:40   cbx33   RichEd, yes an MOTD system was something AliasVegas and I were keen to do
09:40   cbx33   and we thought the clock woud give it a nice look
09:40   cbx33   and something dynamic too
09:40   cbx33   but that's for feisty + 1
09:41   cbx33   so...
09:41   highvoltage     would be nice if a teacher could choose all the widgets and place them like gdeskletts, but that's of course way off :)
09:41   cbx33   yes
09:41   AliasVegas      any comments on the latest artwork?? http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
09:42   pips1   highvoltage: nice imagination! :)
09:42   RichEd  AliasVegas: very anime ... quite hip :)
09:42   AliasVegas      thanks RichEd
09:43   highvoltage     AliasVegas: well, I don't know if you read the original comments about edubuntugirl, some people might have a problem about where the girl's one hand is
09:43   pips1   AliasVegas: I like the expressions on their faces (especially the smirk of the guy)
09:43   highvoltage     AliasVegas: but it's quite cool :)
09:43   willvdl for the record, I did inquiries into artwork contributions. did anything come through on the ML?
09:43   pips1   highvoltage: shock! horror! ;-)
09:43   ogra    ok, i just discovered a bug in edubuntu-auth-server :)
09:43   AliasVegas      the guy isnt finished yet
09:43   RichEd  ogra: we're going through artwork ... 'cos alias and pete need to dash
09:44   cbx33   AliasVegas, can you repost the link for ogra
09:44   AliasVegas      this is what i have been workin on since 10am
09:44   RichEd  then back to ogra and rodarvus will give us a moodle update
09:44   AliasVegas      ogra http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
09:44   ogra    did you guys contact kwii or did he contact you for artwork ?
09:44   cbx33   nope had no contact
09:44   ogra    hes the hired designer who will do all designs now it seems
09:44   pips1   !!
09:44   highvoltage     kwii, that's a kde wii emulator, right? right!?
09:44   willvdl ogra, not cliff?
09:45   pips1   highvoltage: LOL
09:45   cbx33   ogra, when was this decided?
09:45   ogra    highvoltage, dont say that to him :) i think he's tired of hearing it ;)
09:45   Riddell ogra: kwwii
09:45   ogra    cbx33, no idea when mark decided to make it final
09:45   willvdl cbx33, remember two meeitngs back? the debate around feisty art contributions?
09:45   ogra    ken had done the kubuntu artwork in edgy
09:45   highvoltage     ogra: heh, ok
09:45   cbx33   willvdl, yes
09:46   cbx33   but there was no outcome as far as I knew
09:46   ogra    Riddell, ah, thanks ...
09:46   pips1   AliasVegas: I like the girls hair (on the left): nice shape and tones
09:46   AliasVegas      thanks pips1
09:46   ogra    cbx33, did you send the mail to ubuntu-art we talked about some meetings ago ?
09:46   AliasVegas      highvoltage: can you elaborate on the girls hand comment for me? : )
09:47   cbx33   ogra, i thought I had but didn't see it on the archive
09:47   ogra    that would be where kwwii would pick you up ...
09:47   cbx33   I'll mail him later
09:47   ogra    anyway, i'll try to get him to #edubuntu once
09:47   ogra    or that, even better
09:47   kwwii   a little bird told me to join
09:47   cbx33   kwwii...was just coming to look for you
09:48   ogra    kwwii, meet cbx33 and AliasVegas, our edubuntu artists :)
09:48   ogra    Riddell, thanks for that ;)
09:48   kwwii   ogra, cbx33, AliasVegas, hi
09:49   cbx33   kwwii, so....where do we stand for artwork on edubuntu ;)
09:49   highvoltage     AliasVegas: heh, keep it like it is. I think it's fine. I also find emails like this amusing: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-October/000628.html
09:49   highvoltage     AliasVegas: so bring it on!
09:49   cbx33   we were just discussin this
09:49   cbx33   http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg
09:49   kwwii   cbx33: well, until now I have only discussed working on the login screen with ogra
09:49   AliasVegas      highvoltage: heheh thatnks!! ^_^
09:49   kwwii   cbx33: it would depend on what needs to be done
09:50   kwwii   until now it is unclear to me how tied to ubuntu edubuntu is, art-wise
09:50   ogra    kwwii, we usually ship a default wallpaper with a kids wallpaper alongside ... http://www.progbox.co.uk/group.jpg would be a kids variant ...
09:50   ogra    kwwii, login window, gnome splash, wallpaper(s)
09:50   ogra    thats usually what we change ...
09:51   kwwii   ogra: well, I will be working on Ubuntu and Kubuntu stuff anyway, so I guess some of that work could end up in edubuntu as well, if there is a desire to do it
09:51   ogra    right
09:51   kwwii   mainly, if we pick one look the hardest part is filling in all the pieces
09:51   ogra    thats why AliasVegas should coordinate it with you
09:52   kwwii   sounds great
09:52   ogra    edubuntu has a it more freedom to be more colorful and fresher ...
09:52   kwwii   we can discuss that offline, if it is not pertinent to this meeting
09:52   ogra    even though we start targeting older audience ...
09:52   highvoltage     ogra: perhaps this is not the right meeting for this, but isn't it possible that there would be a kubuntu edubuntu metapackage at some point, perhaps edubuntu should have a KDM theme as well?
09:52   ogra    kwwii, right ...
09:53   kwwii   sorry for disturbing :-)
09:53   ogra    highvoltage, i'd like to leave that to some kedubuntu people
09:53   ogra    kwwii, you never disturb, you know that :)
09:53   highvoltage     heh
09:53   ogra    highvoltage, your ressouces are to small to care for multiple DEs
09:53   rodarvus        kedubuntu!
09:53   kwwii   if we could somehow come to a state where all the *buntu's shared the same look it would be really easy ;-)
09:54   ogra    and if i would care for a second one my choice would be xfce for now
09:54   highvoltage     ogra: true, but often it's just a fact of life and we have to deal with it ^_^
09:54   ogra    simply because the request fr it is bigger in the edu landscape
09:54   kwwii   one set of SVGs with a makefile like "make blue"
09:54   ogra    and a script that only adjusts the color values :)
09:54   willvdl kwwii, can you do that with svg?
09:54   ogra    easily
09:55   kwwii   I actually had something like that running for suse a long time ago
09:55   kwwii   ;-)
09:55   willvdl useful
09:55   ogra    willvdl, you can edit svg with a text editor
09:55   rodarvus        I believe you can even embed js inside an svg
09:55   ogra    yep
09:56   ogra    you guys should probably schedule an artwork meeting or somethng like that
09:56   cbx33   ogra, already happeneing
09:56   ogra    if anything on the packaging side is needed, feel free to abuse me :)
09:57   cbx33   hehe
09:57   cbx33   oh i will
09:57   pips1   so the result is: kwii will coordinate with AliasVegas
09:57   ogra    right
09:57   ogra    and with me if it comes to technical details
09:58   AliasVegas      alrighty ^_^
09:58   ogra    is that it for artwork ? i'D like to finish tech ...
09:58   AliasVegas      Yep
09:58   cbx33   yes
09:58   cbx33   sorry ogra
09:58   pips1   AliasVegas: keep up the nice work, and tell us if kwwii is nasty, then we will gang up on him! ;-)
09:58   ogra    great, where did i stop ... edubuntu-network-client will either be ajmitch's tool or a static setup ...
09:59   AliasVegas      pips1: hehe thankyou!
09:59   ogra    during the crash i had some mins ago i found an evil bug with udev .... i have to examine that but it might stop edubuntu-auth-server from feisty ... :/
10:00   RichEd  pity :/
10:00   ogra    well, lets see
10:00   rodarvus        ouch
10:00   ogra    udev needs userauthentication and groupauthentication if it creates the initial devices
10:00   pips1   8-O
10:01   ogra    that cant be there at this point if we are our own server (there is no filesystem mounted yet)
10:01   ogra    its probably solveable through an easy setting or something ... but its a bug i didnt expect
10:02   ogra    and it locked me out completely, so i needed a liveCD to recver
10:02   ogra    *recover
10:02   ogra    nothing i'd want to bother our testers with
10:02   highvoltage     ogra: just call it a random security feature
10:02   ogra    ok, something positive .....
10:02   ogra    edubuntu-on-two-cds
10:02   Mithrandir      uh, why can't it map unauthenticated accesses to nobody?  That should be enough to get you started.
10:03   ogra    Mithrandir, will look, i havent dug through all the nsswitch options yet
10:03   ogra    thanks for the pointer
10:03   ogra    :)
10:03   ogra    http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
10:03   ogra    edubuntu-on-two-cds ^^^^
10:03   pips1   yay
10:03   highvoltage     :-D
10:03   ogra    WE HAVE 650MB SPARE SPACE !!!!
10:04   ogra    (only on the server iso though)
10:04   ogra    the gnome-app-install hook is still missing
10:04   ogra    so the CD only starts up synaptic atm
10:04   rodarvus        ogra, not for long ;)
10:04   ogra    but even with that i'D be happy to go ;)
10:04   highvoltage     ogra: even that is a major improvement
10:05   ogra    ltsp-fat-clients: the one spec i wouldnt care to defer
10:05   ogra    if the auth-server makes it, it wil be implemented as well
10:06   ogra    all pieces apart from network aouth are implemented
10:06   ogra    but if that one desnt make it i wil drop fat clients as well
10:06   highvoltage     fat clients was always dependent on auth
10:06   ogra    ltsp-persistent-home: deferred
10:07   highvoltage     it's easy to hack up for an administrator who really, really wants it, at least
10:07   willvdl ogra, I'm rusty on the spec for fat-client, is that a network booted diskless fat?
10:07   ogra    better-moodle-integration: rodarvus is packaging moodle 1.7 atm ...
10:07   ogra    thats al about tech
10:07   rodarvus        my turn, then
10:07   cbx33   phew that's a lot
10:07   Burgwork        we were talking about how to configure the moodle server
10:07   ogra    willvdl, thats a netbooted workstation
10:07   willvdl ogra, cool
10:08   rodarvus        as RichEd said on his introduction to the moodle subject, I'm working on properly packaging moodle for main
10:08   ogra    Burgwork, not differently from the defaults now ... we need a safe upgrade path
10:08   Burgwork        ah
10:08   rodarvus        this task is twofold: removing the usage of wwwconfig-common from the postinst/postrm/prerm scripts
10:08   RichEd  [ Burgwork: the simple CD .iso will be a next step ]
10:08   rodarvus        and, since we want to have a very close relationship with upstream (and for security reasons)
10:09   rodarvus        I'm also working on the update of our moodle package for the latest version
10:09   rodarvus        the rationale is we base our package on debian's, which is version 1.6.3
10:09   ogra    which should essentially only be a replacement of the orig.tar.gz ...
10:09   ogra    right
10:09   rodarvus        debian has frozen main, so won't have a new version for a while
10:09   rodarvus        ogra, no, it isn't
10:09   ogra    oh, why is that ?
10:09   rodarvus        database schema is different, for instance
10:10   ogra    ah
10:10   rodarvus        moodle 1.7.0 (.1, actually) is quite an upgrade from 1.6.x
10:10   rodarvus        various new modules, and added features
10:10   ogra    i only knew about added utf8 support
10:10   rodarvus        no :)
10:10   rodarvus        wait a sec, I'll grab the list
10:11   willvdl A db schema change is quite drastic isn't it?
10:11   ogra    yes it is :/
10:11   rodarvus        Roles - Moodle has a complete new architecture for assigning people permissions.
10:11   rodarvus        XML database schema - Moodle now supports a single way of specifying database structures using XML
10:11   ogra    thats something we need to sort in our new upstream relationship
10:11   rodarvus        New admin interface
10:11   rodarvus        and
10:11   rodarvus        Unit testing framework
10:11   rodarvus        (various other small features too)
10:11   rodarvus        but these are the big ones
10:12   willvdl how would the unit testing framework affect users?
10:12   rodarvus        it won't
10:12   rodarvus        its for developers only
10:12   rodarvus        but as moodle is quite extensible, we might see many users adding their own modules for added spice on their courses/seminars
10:13   willvdl rodarvus, not tech doc yet, but is their documentation up to date?
10:13   rodarvus        it is
10:13   willvdl gooood
10:13   ogra    they have awesome docs
10:13   rodarvus        willvdl, but unfortunately, I was not able to link it to yelp :/
10:13   ogra    moodle is one of the best docced apps i've seen so far
10:13   rodarvus        they have great docs, and a dedicated (?) person for that
10:14   rodarvus        what they are (unfortunately) lacking is on quality code, regarding security
10:14   rodarvus        moodle has had 13 secunia issues in the last two years
10:14   rodarvus        two of them are open for moodle 1.6.x
10:14   ogra    well, its php ...
10:14   ogra    what would you expect
10:14   rodarvus        to be sincere, I'm not confident on what will be the response of pitti to our MIR
10:15   rodarvus        ogra, indeed, it resembles mediawiki a lot, on this regard
10:15   ogra    we will urely get restrictions
10:15   highvoltage     ogra: I hear the main ubuntu.com site is going to be driven by php soon
10:15   ogra    like i did for pulseaudio
10:15   willvdl drupal, yeah
10:15   rodarvus        ogra, indeed, which takes me to the question you asked me on email, this morning (regarding how I dropped wwwconfig-common)
10:15   ogra    its not allowed into -desktop
10:15   ogra    but its allowed into main, so i can use it in ltsp
10:16   rodarvus        I basically reimplemented all the scripts manually, based on what they were doing from inside wwwconfig-common
10:16   ogra    rodarvus, i'd still like to see that scripts :)
10:16   rodarvus        but parts of the scripts (the parts related to postgresql) are changing for 1.7
10:16   rodarvus        ogra, sure
10:16   rodarvus        nothing out of extraordinary, to be honest
10:16   ogra    yes, please focus on 1.7 ... i will try to get a FF exception if one is needed
10:17   pips1   rodarvus: The new roles feature in 1.7.1 has caused our moodle admin quite a big headache. he upgraded from 1.6.4 and ended up with automatic course subscriptions of students that weren't supposed to be there... I think that problem still persists in moodle upstream :-/
10:17   rodarvus        ogra, I *really* don't think it will be needed
10:17   ogra    rodarvus, worst case ... you never know
10:17   rodarvus        (unless we have huge problems, which I haven't had yet)
10:17   rodarvus        right
10:17   willvdl "worst case ... you never know" ... lol
10:18   rodarvus        pips1, right. this is one of my worries (and the reason why it is not a trivial orig.tar.gz upgrade)
10:18   rodarvus        there isn't really much we can do, apart from either:
10:18   rodarvus        1. having a separate package for moodle 1.6 and 1.7
10:18   rodarvus        or
10:18   rodarvus        2. ignoring upgrade users (which I don't think will happen :P )
10:18   ogra    1. is fine with me
10:18   ogra    we divert from debian anyway
10:19   rodarvus        nice
10:19   willvdl seeing as tis is the first time we package moodle with our release, can we not work around that with good docs?
10:19   ajmitch rodarvus: did you not consider using dbconfig-common?
10:19   rodarvus        that is on my plans too, if we find out upstream is not supporting database schema updates properly
10:19   ogra    so people wanting to use 1.6 can get the debian upgrades as long as they fix 1.6
10:19   rodarvus        ajmitch, no, I didn't, to be sincere
10:19   ajmitch ok, that's been promoted as a replacement for wwwconfig-common
10:19   ajmitch afaik
10:20   ajmitch sorry to tell you about it after the work has been done :)
10:20   rodarvus        nice!
10:21   rodarvus        (its less useful for 1.7, if we don't support upgrades from 1.6, but nice, still :) )
10:22   rodarvus        anyhow, this is my tech update for moodle, unless someone has comments or questions
10:22   ogra    sounds great !
10:22   pips1   rodarvus: will moodle run on the edubuntu server by default?
10:23   rodarvus        RichEd can probably give more details on this regard, I think (from his conversations with upstream)
10:23   ogra    thats the plan
10:24   ogra    edubuntu will be a fully fledged setup with all server apps we promote ...
10:24   ogra    so its easy to make derivatives by switching off parts
10:24   cbx33   :)
10:24   ogra    edubuntu itself sould always have all features we put effort in :)
10:24   ajmitch rodarvus: I'm just filing a sync request for dbconfig-common now to get the latest, 1.8.30 has some useful fixes :)
10:24   willvdl so moodle goes on server install but not workstation install right?
10:24   ogra    to show off with integration ;)
10:25   ogra    right
10:25   rodarvus        willvdl, yes, no reason to have it on workstataion installs
10:26   ogra    it wont be on the desktop CD and not in wrokstation installs ...
10:26   ogra    only on the first server CD
10:26   willvdl did I miss TCM BTW?
10:26   ogra    with a default config
10:26   highvoltage     willvdl: try channel 7
10:26   pips1   has there been any thinking about integrating user administration of edubuntu and moodle? or is that feisty+5 ? :)
10:27   rodarvus        one thing I talked briefly with Burgwork and others is about a (theoric) tool for extra configuration of moodle
10:27   rodarvus        would be nice for us to collaborate with upstream on this regard
10:27   ogra    willvdl, 09:07ograstudent-control-panel-upgrade: well, see petes blog
10:27   Burgwork        pips1: for that you would need an ldap plugin for moodle
10:27   ajmitch Burgwork: there's probably one floating around
10:27   rodarvus        there are various little configurations and tweaks on moodle which could benefit from that
10:27   ogra    pips1, afaik there are ldap integartion bits for moodle ...
10:27   ajmitch Burgwork: google shows me docs for it :)
10:28   ogra    that would be a good feisty+1 target ;)
10:28   willvdl ogra, thanks
10:28   Burgwork        ajmitch: right, figured it would be likely
10:28   Burgwork        rodarvus: see the first run config stuff of wildfire (the jabber server)
10:28   Burgwork        it is quite slick
10:28   ajmitch ogra: could you tell me later (after meeting I guess) just what you need for pam_mount config for network auth?
10:29   rodarvus        Burgwork, will do, thanks!
10:29   rodarvus        but imho, these configs are not stuff for a "first run", but instead, configurations which can be enabled/tweaked by administrators wanting advanced features
10:30   ogra    ajmitch, i'm not sure i need anything yet ... that will depend if i do samba integration now or in feisty+1
10:30   Burgwork        actually, "do you want user stuff stored in moodle or ldap" is a first run question
10:30   ogra    with nfs mounts there shouldnt be any modifications necessary
10:30   ajmitch ogra: assuming you need it now, I want to be prepared
10:30   ajmitch ok
=== ajmitch has the start of a module for it, but no config setting yet
10:30   pips1   Burgwork: good point
10:31   ogra    anyway, lets not get the tech stuff to big ... reports are done
10:33   ogra    feature freeze is near
10:34   ogra    what did you covere apart from artwork while i tried to get back into my system ?
10:34   ogra    *cover
10:35   willvdl RichEd has a bad lag. Shall we move to docs?
10:35   willvdl just phoned me
10:35   pips1   nothing, apart from nixternal piping in that he makes a promise to work on docs this weekend
10:35   ogra    feel free, i'm done
10:36   pips1   willvdl: ?
10:36   willvdl rodarvus, about moodle docs
10:36   willvdl how will it integrate at the mo
10:37   willvdl if not in yelp
10:37   rodarvus        well, not with yelp, unfortunately. I tried to hack a script to merge moodle docs into yelp xml, but failed miserably
10:37   ogra    willvdl, they are contained in moodle
10:37   rodarvus        apart from that, they are html files
10:37   rodarvus        contained in moodle, as ogra said
10:37   willvdl context help in moodle
10:37   ogra    afaik if you install them they show up as a module
10:37   froud   rodarvus: what is src for moodle docs?
10:37   willvdl OK, so we don't have to consider anything special for it on or off-line?
10:37   ogra    froud, moodle upstream
10:37   froud   wiki
10:38   froud   moin
10:39   willvdl any thoughts on an install doc? vs having it in handbook?
10:39   rodarvus        froud, basic html
10:39   rodarvus        created by moodle upstream
10:39   rodarvus        not sure if they use something else to create it
10:40   froud   rodarvus: isn't there a round trip script from wiki to db and back in ubuntu-doc
10:40   rodarvus        (might be a good idea to talk with them on the subject)
10:40   froud   rodarvus: html 2 db is a hard one
10:40   RichEd_ hi guys - sorry other machine is hanging on me
10:41   rodarvus        froud, it *might* be, but I think it is created specifically for use inside moodle, and not for a common wiki
10:42   rodarvus        (hmm, no - mediawiki with heavy plugin usage)
10:42   pips1   hold on, aren't you guys talking about two different things? there is a documentation that comes as a moodle module (static html), and there is a work-in-progress online documentation wiki, right?
10:42   froud   rodarvus: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/Html2DocBook
10:42   froud   It's not 100% fire and forget though
10:43   rodarvus        pips1, this is right
10:43   pips1   are you now talking about packaging up the work-in-progress wiki doc?
=== rodarvus isn't
10:44   pips1   froud: ? :)
10:44   froud   pips1: I think we speaking on both
10:44   froud   1. module
10:44   rodarvus        I'm saying that the static docs are positively not wiki, but I'm not sure if they are generated from a mediawiki or such, by the moodle documentation person
10:44   froud   2. wiki
10:45   cbx33   sorry just popping in on docs....
10:45   rodarvus        (*and* that I will talk with him to get more info on that)
10:45   willvdl cbx33, are TCM docs a load of work?
10:45   pips1   right, oki
10:45   cbx33   willvdl, not really
10:45   froud   rodarvus: let me know if I can help in some nice way
10:45   cbx33   and most of it will be written for the edubuntu chapter in the ubuntu book anyway
10:46   cbx33   so I can just hack it up a bit
10:46   willvdl cnx33, will you have yelp integration?
10:46   cbx33   well I 'll rewrite/hack up...not sure if my editor will like me just copying the text from the book
10:46   froud   rodarvus: as I recollect, yelp does read HTML, no?
10:46   ogra    i guess you need one screenshot per fuction and one explanatory sentence
10:47   cbx33   ogra, if you can just check through that doc and make changes where necessary that'll be a great help
10:47   ogra    that shoud be enouhg
10:47   cbx33   ogra, exactly
10:47   cbx33   infact the handbook already has a lot
10:47   cbx33   and all the screenshots were done
10:48   ogra    think abou tthat we need to update screenshts with the final artwork
10:48   cbx33   ye
10:48   cbx33   s
10:48   cbx33   ogra, screenshots are not done for the book yet
10:48   ogra    ah, ok
10:48   cbx33   and most of the tcm/scp are done of tiny potions which don't change much
10:48   willvdl maybe even a screencast? :)
10:48   cbx33   could do
10:49   popey   \o/ screencasts
10:49   popey   hi cbx33
10:49   rodarvus        froud, it reads xml
10:49   froud   rodarvus: yes, but also HTML
10:49   rodarvus        but anyhow, nice - help is always appreciated :)
10:49   willvdl froud, I don't think it does read html
10:49   willvdl not like khelp
10:50   froud   willvdl: hmmm then they took support for it out
10:50   rodarvus        it expects XML, using the specific DTD used by the gnome documentation, afaik
10:50   froud   shame getting moodle docs in would have been simple scrollkeeper touch if yelp still supported it
10:50   froud   will try yelp an html page please I am on kde
10:51   froud   willvdl: can you try yelp an html page please I am on kde
10:51   willvdl froud looking
10:51   froud   willvdl: try that nepad eschools page you built today
10:52   willvdl trying to point yelp to a url...
10:52   froud   try page on disk
10:52   willvdl built that on kde :)
10:53   froud   it will also build on gnome
10:53   rodarvus        froud, willvdl: "Yelp serves as a DocBook viewer, a man page viewer, and an info page viewer. This page serves as a development workspace for Yelp and gnome-doc-utils. For the content that goes into Yelp, see the GNOME DocumentationProject."
10:53   willvdl it does read html
10:53   rodarvus        http://live.gnome.org/Yelp
10:53   willvdl just did drag and drop of html file into it
10:53   froud   willvdl: thx
10:53   froud   rodarvus: yes that is what they say, but reality is not the same
10:54   pips1   heh
10:54   froud   rodarvus: hence you can take moodle html and package it
10:54   froud   then just update scrollkeeper
10:54   willvdl simple omf pointer right?
10:55   froud   willvdl: yes
10:55   froud   this could save many hours
10:55   willvdl anyhoo
10:55   rodarvus        you mean scrollkeeper would be able to index an html file?
10:55   rodarvus        that would be great news
10:55   froud   but may create issues for l18n
10:55   willvdl maybe not index it
10:55   willvdl sorry, ignore me
10:55   rodarvus        well, if not index it, I don't see the point of opening moodle documentation from inside yelp
10:55   rodarvus        (unless I'm missing something else)
10:56   rodarvus        in this case, yelp would be a simple html browser
10:56   willvdl unless linked from the front page...
10:57   froud   rodarvus: scrollkeeper does no index it just keeps track of docs when they are registered with it
10:57   froud   rodarvus: yelp will search the html though, I think I recollect that
10:57   rodarvus        and yelp is far from good at parsing generic html - it has a very weak html parser
10:58   froud   rodarvus: choose your poison, round trip or tweak :-)
10:58   willvdl well lets see if it does work, otherwise a context system within moodle is good enough?
10:58   rodarvus        froud, what I mean is, imho, the real reason to use yelp as a moodle help viewer would be to have the help contents properly indexed and linked
10:58   rodarvus        froud, heh
10:58   willvdl rodarvus, agree
10:59   froud   is there a use case for this? sorry I am missing info
10:59   rodarvus        otherwise, it just makes more sense to browse the documentation from inside moodle - since moodle will be running on firefox or similar most (all?) of the time
10:59   froud   hence my question on the use case
11:00   froud   effort vs reward
11:00   willvdl let's take this offline?
11:00   froud   np
11:00   rodarvus        agreed
11:00   ogra    sounds good
11:00   ogra    Ubugtu is pushy
11:01   rodarvus        <Ubugtu> meeting is over, or rather, should be!
11:01   rodarvus        next would be community?
11:01   ogra    anything left ?
11:02   RichEd_ ogra: not from my side ... will do the conference sttuff next weeek

Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2007-01-31 (last edited 2009-10-14 19:38:36 by 95)