This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting February 14, 2007
- Herd 4 preparation
- Call for testing
- Fat-clients: compensating by using kiosk mode
- Discussed 2nd CD application inclusions
- kwii came up with new Edubuntu usplash screen
- check on license issues with using icons on wiki page
- New wiki front page
- discussed edubuntu-docs package
- stelis has docs that could be merged into handbook
- Ubuntu Education Summit announced for Seville in early May
09:01 ogra on my side there is not much for tech ... last week was bus feautre freeze week ... this week is herd4 preparation week 09:01 ogra *busy 09:02 ogra so all i can say, help testing ! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ReportingResults has the new testing procedures 09:03 ogra to compensate the not implemented fat clients i enabled the kiosk plugin in ltsp ... you are able to build a webkiosk now very easily 09:04 ogra so we have at least the basic structure for a fat client ... people wanting a full desktop kiosk mode can even install (ed)ubuntu-desktop in the client ... 09:04 willvdl cool 09:04 willvdl had a chat with heno 09:04 willvdl seems LP is used mainly for test tracking (ooh what's that link again) 09:04 ogra it explains how to use LP :) 09:05 ogra what i'd like to point out to everyone is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UES-Sevilla 09:05 juliux evening 09:05 juliux sorry i am late 09:05 ogra we will have our next educational conference in may 09:05 willvdl ogra: yeah :) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests 09:06 willvdl v. excited about this 09:06 ogra from may 3rd to may 4th we'll try to gather as many educators as possible in sevilla 09:06 ogra anybody is free to come indeed :) 09:06 Spec in spain? 09:06 ogra yep 09:07 willvdl yip 09:07 willvdl right before UDS 09:07 ogra it is directly attached to UDS 09:08 ogra anyway, thats all from my side unless there are questions 09:08 willvdl as RichEd would put it, it is a conf aimed at both "above the desktop" and "below" 09:08 ogra oh, if you test feisty, please test the serveraddon iso as well 09:08 willvdl how's 2nd CD coming along? 09:08 willvdl haven't had a chance to look this week 09:09 ogra well, i havent done the seed changes yet 09:09 juliux ogra, when is herd4 released? 09:09 LaserJock well, I still have a list of MIR Candidates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates 09:09 ogra so it's still the same as last week 09:09 juliux or will release 09:09 ogra juliux, tomorrow is ETA ... dunno if it will make it 09:09 juliux ogra, yes my fault i thought today is already the 15th;9 09:09 LaserJock I've almost finished a MIR for rasmol (I had a nightmare the other day that iwj found a CVE I didn't find) 09:10 ogra i'm planning to shuffle the seeds as soon as the Cd is out ... the dailies after that miught break horribly, so be careful 09:10 willvdl LaserJock, rasmol? 09:10 ogra LaserJock, heh 09:10 LaserJock molecule visualization 09:10 ogra LaserJock, so we share some fears actually :) 09:10 LaserJock it's like the first chemistry app I used 09:11 LaserJock the problem I'm seeing is the field get's narrowed down very fast if you take out apps that have a lot of dependencies in Universe and ones that aren't maintained well (either in Debian or upstream) 09:11 ogra yep 09:12 ogra but the field of apps in main we dont ship yet is big as well 09:12 ogra i'm pretty sure we'll get together something sufficient for feisty ... even if only one or two new apps come from universe 09:13 LaserJock I'd like to get qcad, octave, and stellarium in 09:13 ogra qucad is a good one 09:13 ogra -u 09:13 LaserJock drgeo has a dead upstream otherwise I'd do it 09:13 ajmitch is moodle going into main? 09:13 LaserJock it'll have to be reworked 09:13 LaserJock i.e. not for Feisty that I know of 09:13 ogra ajmitch, it would have needed to be in before FF 09:13 LaserJock maybe ogra's worked on that 09:14 ajmitch ogra: a shame 09:14 ogra yeah 09:14 LaserJock I'd *like* to do it for Feisty+1 === ajmitch of course has authtool still stuck in NEW, so it won't get into main 09:14 ogra i'll package the most recent version for feisty+1 closely working with upstream (who will come to UES i hope) 09:14 LaserJock I was going to do it for Feisty but my time has been severly short 09:15 ogra it can be a ubuntuesque package that doesnt need to go to debian i.e. moodle1.7 09:15 LaserJock as far as 2nd CD stuff goes 09:16 LaserJock I really need feedback from educators 09:16 ajmitch ogra: I suggest looking at dbconfig-common to replace wwwconfig-common :) 09:16 ogra that saves us headdaches with upgrade paths and gives us the possibility to keep the 1.6 package for people who want it ... 09:16 LaserJock I have some ideas of packages but I'd rather package what educators already know they need, rather than what I think they need 09:16 ogra ajmitch, well, either that or totally without ***config-common 09:17 ajmitch if you want to write all the db creation & management scripts yourself 09:17 ogra for new packages we have all options :) 09:17 ogra notMax, but i can ask upstream to maintain them in a way that my postinst doesnt need to be freakys 09:18 LaserJock ogra: how strict is the "only one app for each task" for Edubuntu? 09:18 ogra that was supposed to read "no", sorry notMax 09:18 ogra LaserJock, depends, what do you propose ? 09:18 LaserJock I found several good calculator/function plotter type apps 09:19 LaserJock but they are really for different levels 09:19 willvdl LaserJock, I would imagine they would also tie into different backends? 09:19 ogra do you think you will find more of such apps ? 09:19 LaserJock lybniz is a really basic and usable function plotter that would be good for younger kids 09:19 LaserJock but qalculate is a really cool and powerful calculator (I hate to even call it that) 09:19 LaserJock it does unit conversion, plotting, etc. 09:19 willvdl and the kde one? kplot is it? 09:20 ogra kig i think 09:20 LaserJock yeah, there are a few kde ones 09:20 LaserJock qalculate has both gtk and qt versions I believe 09:20 willvdl yeah, kig 09:20 LaserJock seperate source though, which is weird 09:20 willvdl LaserJock, what about Logo/Squeak type thingies? 09:21 LaserJock Squeak is non-free 09:21 LaserJock not sure what we have for Logo 09:21 ogra we should go with the best still ... if we find more apps to categorize them i.e. in an edubuntu-science-advanced metapackage we should do so ... 09:21 ogra we have kturtle 09:21 willvdl love kturtle 09:21 LaserJock ogra: my point was, if I find apps that are sort of the same thing, just designed for different age ranges, is that considered a duplicate? 09:21 ogra thjats apparently still the best logo app 09:22 willvdl kturtle :) 09:22 ogra LaserJock, not if we can group them into install tasks i would say 09:22 ogra if its only one single app i'd say we should consider exceptions on a case by case base 09:22 LaserJock ok, that's sort of what I was thinking 09:23 LaserJock so far calculators are the only ones I've run into 09:23 willvdl LaserJock, I'm not familiar with the packages but I woudl assume it's OK if one=primary and the other=secondary 09:23 ogra i'm all for replacing the gnome default calculator for example ... 09:23 ogra that leaves us with only one additional app ;) 09:24 LaserJock ogra: ok, so what is your feeling on me doing some more MIRs? 09:24 ogra since i expect at least one of them can work like a standard calculator 09:24 LaserJock I asked -devel if FF applied to these 2nd CD apps 09:24 LaserJock and they said it was basically up to you 09:24 ogra LaserJock, itz wont hurt ... if we dont get them in we still have MIRs we only need to update 09:24 LaserJock ok 09:25 ogra concentrate on the ones with the lest deps 09:25 LaserJock I'll continue working on them, and hopefully at a much more rapid pace 09:25 ogra *least 09:25 LaserJock yeah 09:25 LaserJock that's why I started with rasmol 09:25 LaserJock rasmol, lybniz, and qcad don't need any deps from Universe 09:25 ogra great 09:26 LaserJock octave is one that has a few 09:26 LaserJock but in my thread on the forums it comes up a lot 09:26 LaserJock as the best free Matlab replacement 09:26 ogra is drgeo in main ? 09:26 LaserJock but it needs lam, mpich, hdf5, gnuplot, libgd 09:26 LaserJock no 09:26 ogra its an often requested app 09:26 LaserJock and it's upstream is dead so I didn't know if we could do a MIR or not 09:27 juliux octave is the beste math tool i ever used 09:27 ogra drgeo ? 09:27 ogra hmm, that ssad 09:27 LaserJock yeah, Burgwork found it for me 09:27 willvdl octave upstream dead? 09:27 LaserJock not octave, drgeo 09:27 willvdl ah 09:27 LaserJock drgeo really looks like a good app 09:28 ogra yeah, but nothing for now ... 09:28 LaserJock anyway 09:28 LaserJock I've been digging around 09:28 LaserJock trying to see which ones are worth it, etc. 09:28 LaserJock and I'm almost done with rasmol 09:28 ogra good 09:28 LaserJock but I should have more up by the end of the week 09:29 LaserJock I got some gchemutils work out of the way last night 09:29 ogra i'll kick kdeedu and gcompris off the CD on friday then ... 09:29 ogra and have a look around main for apps we could use 09:29 LaserJock oh, and I talked with jono about jokosher 09:29 LaserJock I don't know if I mentioned it to you ogra 09:30 willvdl intersting angle 09:30 ogra yep you did 09:30 LaserJock k 09:30 ogra inkscape looks like a good one ... 09:30 LaserJock yeah 09:30 LaserJock I'll go through Main too, I hadn't really thought about that 09:30 ogra with the free space we can finally ship mono ... how about f-spot by default ? 09:31 ogra *f-spot 09:31 willvdl interesting, these are not what one "traditionally" lumps into educational tools? 09:31 LaserJock willvdl: it's still a computer :-) 09:31 LaserJock I think f-spot would be good 09:31 LaserJock tomboy too 09:31 LaserJock as students can keep notes 09:31 ogra willvdl, well, an app for vector drawing should be a standard 09:32 ogra we ship gimp for pixel pushing ... so we can as well grab inkscape :) 09:32 willvdl ogra, it should be in main as DTP app... 09:32 ogra inkscape is in main 09:32 ogra it's just not on any CDs yet 09:32 willvdl ah. there we go. gotcha 09:32 LaserJock is there an easy way to see what's in Main but not on the CDs? 09:33 ogra there are a bunch of such apps, i need to dig through that ... 09:33 ogra the seeds ... 09:33 ogra and germinate should be able to help you as well 09:33 LaserJock well, I could grab the Packages.gz from Main and subtract out what's in the seeds 09:33 ogra right 09:34 LaserJock I'm sure Pete could write something ;-) 09:34 ogra heh 09:34 LaserJock he wrote me a little script to check the deps 09:34 LaserJock for MIRs 09:34 ogra i'll need him for the TCM fixes .... 09:34 LaserJock :-) 09:34 ogra so dont put to much on hi, 09:34 LaserJock how's TCM going? 09:34 ogra *him 09:34 LaserJock I won't I promise? 09:34 ogra i fixed the final glitches with the package today 09:34 LaserJock s/?/:-)/ 09:35 LaserJock sounds like big improvments since SCP 09:35 ogra the vnc part on my side is missing ... but thats a trivial one ... 09:35 LaserJock I haven't had a chance to use it as I don't have an LTSP setup 09:35 LaserJock but the screenshots look pretty cool 09:35 ogra will be fixed with the next ltsp upload i think 09:35 juliux ogra, is there a working TCM in herd4? 09:35 ogra juliux, kind of 09:35 ogra all old features will work ... 09:36 ogra there were no regressions ... 09:36 juliux and the new ones also? 09:36 ogra the new features still all have bugs 09:36 juliux ok 09:36 ogra but try them out and file them please :) 09:36 ogra so we get a list together 09:36 juliux we will do 09:36 willvdl is TCM registered on Malone? 09:36 ogra great :) 09:36 juliux we have the whole sunday for testing,) 09:37 ogra willvdl, only the package i think ... not sure pete has an LP branch for it 09:37 willvdl so no bzr branch, but can catch bugs 09:37 ogra as long as we're only two devs its fine to play pingpong with the source package 09:38 ogra but it should have a branch indeed 09:38 ogra i'll talk to pete about that 09:38 willvdl not really, maybe as it's released 09:38 ogra oh, one other thing ... if you test, please give feedback about the new usplash :) 09:39 juliux ogra, ok 09:39 willvdl got a snpashot? 09:39 ogra kwwii made us aa new one :) 09:39 willvdl snapshot rather? 09:39 ogra not of a running one, but i can upload the pic, one moment 09:40 willvdl coool 09:41 LaserJock is the other artwork new yet? 09:41 ogra http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/usplash_1024_768.png 09:41 ogra nope, not yet 09:41 LaserJock k, I just wondered 09:42 LaserJock hmm, I like the usplash 09:42 juliux nice usplash 09:42 ogra ken will develop an ubuntu theme weher we will just apply color changes as i understoofd his plan 09:42 LaserJock the lettering looks a little too "fuzzy" for me but I love the logo 09:42 ogra i'm currently hacking on svg support for ldm ... 09:42 LaserJock doh 09:42 ogra LaserJock, you need to scale it right :) 09:43 willvdl LaserJock, zoom in 09:43 LaserJock I just needed to get it at 100%, my browser was shrinking it 09:43 willvdl as you mentioned it, I thought the same thing :) 09:43 LaserJock ok, yeah, I really like it 09:43 willvdl snap 09:43 ogra we have a nice redish progressbar for that ... 09:43 willvdl same style? 09:44 ogra same style as ubuntu 09:44 ogra just a different color 09:44 willvdl I'm not mad about the 6.10 progress bar 09:44 ogra test the herd4 liveCD :P 09:44 ogra there you can see it in action 09:44 willvdl ogra, I wish. bandwidth is a commodity here :) 09:45 LaserJock willvdl: I didn't like it either 09:45 willvdl fortunately I sit next to marilize so I can steal CDs :) 09:45 ogra willvdl, you should get a cdimage mirror to the hbd office ... 09:45 ogra rsyncs are cheaper than downnloads 09:45 willvdl ogra, there is one but that's another story. perhaps not in here :) 09:45 ogra ok :) 09:46 willvdl I guess we're in artwork? 09:46 ogra well, i guess that was artwork 09:46 ogra unless someone else has anything to show :) 09:47 ogra i'll talk to colin after herd4 if we can get the usplash pic into the CD bootscreen as well 09:47 willvdl is that guy on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette modelled on Pete? :) 09:47 ogra that urgently needs an update 09:48 ogra thats from pete and his wife afaik 09:48 willvdl looks a bit like him. if you squint jsut right 09:48 willvdl ogra, I presume the motd thingy will wait a bit? 09:49 ogra i'll look into it ... might be only a trivial confiog switch in gdm 09:49 ogra if not it has to wait, yes 09:49 ogra really depends how big that change might be 09:50 willvdl the icons that get shipped, how are they genrally licensed? 09:50 ogra i think they are gpl ... 09:50 ogra not the best for icons 09:51 ogra let me look it up ... one sec 09:51 ogra the debian package says GPL 09:52 willvdl so if I reuse on the wiki and the wiki is CC-BY-SA... 09:53 ogra F.A.Q: 09:53 ogra Q: What's Gartoon License? 09:53 ogra A: Starting 0.5 Gartoon lincensed under GPL (read GPL.txt) 09:53 ogra aha 09:54 willvdl I should then just make a reference/attribution where I reuse === LaserJock loves licensing :-) *cough* 09:54 willvdl e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show 09:56 willvdl anyhoo, above link is not "live" yet but is the culmination of work I've done trying to cleanup and organise our wiki pages 09:56 willvdl I think I need a "misc" section though 09:57 LaserJock I think nixternal is getting the edubuntu-docs MIR written up 09:57 ogra yippie 09:58 LaserJock we have a few bugs to work out in the yelp frontpage 09:58 willvdl now we jsut need to get the edubuntu-docs written up :) 09:58 LaserJock but mdke said he'll work on that 09:58 ogra i thought there is a lot 09:58 LaserJock we dep on ubuntu-docs 09:58 willvdl just kidding 09:58 ogra we just need them imported into the package 09:58 LaserJock so people will get all the Ubuntu documentation 09:59 willvdl LaserJock, I can't wait to see the end result cause then I reckon I'll finally get my head around the technicalities of TBH 09:59 LaserJock so the "bug" we need to fix is to remove About Ubuntu 09:59 LaserJock well, it'll be interesting 10:00 LaserJock but at least better than what we've had in the past 10:00 willvdl one option is to make the "About" page generic to all derivitives 10:00 LaserJock I think Feisty+1 will be more consistent 10:01 willvdl which could possibly make sense... less duplication on common features 10:02 nixternal LaserJock: I am looking at the MIR now, sorry but I have been so bogged down this week 10:02 nixternal Availability: Not yet? 10:02 LaserJock the package *is* in Universe 10:02 LaserJock just not the final form 10:03 ogra ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/gartoon-0.5$ apt-cache madison edubuntu-docs 10:03 ogra edubuntu-docs | 0.4-1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages 10:03 ogra edubuntu-docs | 0.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources 10:03 ogra if you need any repackaging etc, ping me 10:03 LaserJock I had a look at nixternal's packaging 10:03 ogra currently it installs two html files without any integration ... 10:03 LaserJock built and installed it too 10:04 ogra i'm fine with replacing whats there 10:04 LaserJock it seems good, it's based off of the ubuntu-docs source package 10:04 ogra LaserJock, if ayou are fine with the package feel free to upload 10:04 LaserJock nixternal: we should check the firefox page though 10:04 LaserJock ogra: k 10:04 ogra the firefox page is in edubuntu-artwork 10:04 ogra please check for other clashes as well 10:05 nixternal LaserJock: yes, I will work on that unless you want to rock it out quickly 10:05 nixternal LaserJock: whoa whoa 10:05 LaserJock nixternal: what? 10:05 nixternal LaserJock: the Firefox page is packaged with edubuntu-artwork 10:06 nixternal so you need to fix it there, unless it gets removed from there and incorporated into the edubuntu-docs package, which of course only makes sense 10:06 ogra its the only doc we have, it didnt really justify a whole package ... 10:06 LaserJock nah, -artwork is fine for now 10:06 LaserJock I don't want to "rock the boat" too much at this point 10:06 ogra well, it should move eventually ... 10:07 ogra but that must not be now if it generates extra work 10:07 LaserJock anyway, we can talk details later 10:07 ogra really up to you guys ... i'll do what the docteam says ;) 10:07 LaserJock we need a MIR and get it going 10:07 ogra right 10:07 LaserJock we can fix bugs a bit later 10:08 ogra just wipe the existing package with something with a higher version 10:08 nixternal LaserJock / ogra: we can always start out feisty+1 with the new implementation to save issues? 10:08 ogra as long as we keep a working upgrade path we can do everything ;) 10:08 nixternal https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportEdubuntuDocs <- LaserJock 10:08 nixternal oh shoot, I forgot that we were in a meeting right now :) I just connected from school 10:09 nixternal haha, I thought we were in #*-motu 10:09 ogra well, i dont think there is much left oin the plate for the meeting 10:09 nixternal LaserJock: that MIR is rough, but started :) 10:09 LaserJock nixternal: I can tweak it when you're done :-) 10:10 nixternal I am done for the time being if you want to tweak it a little 10:10 ogra so we could as well end it here and you can go on with packaging in #edubuntu :) 10:10 nixternal that is the first time I have done one, so I am expecting it to be horrible 10:11 ogra well, its our own package so there wont be any external CVEs or something ... 10:11 nixternal true 10:11 ogra and its only docs 10:11 nixternal ya, how dangerous can they be :) 10:11 ogra i dont expect problems with the MIR 10:11 nixternal oh wait, I have been working on them, so be careful ;p 10:11 ogra ujnless iwj complains about the format ... 10:12 nixternal sure, whatever that means === nixternal whips out a perl script to decypher 10:12 ogra make sure to not use the plain template ... but put some formulation work in etc 10:12 ogra he wants to see some effort from a MIR writer 10:12 nixternal ahh 10:12 ogra so you show your intrest in the package 10:13 ogra (thats how he said it ) 10:13 nixternal very well put I must say 10:13 nixternal gotta sell it! 10:13 ogra heh 10:14 willvdl stelis, are you in here? 10:14 stelis Yes 10:14 willvdl can you paste the link to the docs you're working on in here? 10:14 willvdl I lost it in my logs 10:14 stelis http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html 10:15 willvdl thanks. sorry for the noise folks but I want to start integrating more from other peoples docs 10:15 nixternal stelis: you think that your docs could be incorporated into the current Edubuntu Handbook? 10:15 nixternal willvdl: I take it you are on it already :) 10:15 willvdl nixternal, time :) 10:16 nixternal woohoo, one less thing for me to worry over right now 10:16 willvdl but if things don't go according to pplan then I will have next week relatively free 10:16 stelis I'm not actually sure where the current HB is 10:16 ogra instead of https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams you should rather point to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz that will have always the recent supported list 10:16 ogra stelis, ^^ 10:16 stelis I pulled a SVN before Xmas 10:16 willvdl https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook 10:16 stelis ogra: Thanks 10:17 nixternal stelis: the docs are stored at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk 10:17 ogra apart from that this is a really beautiful doc, kudos 10:17 stelis Thanks 10:17 nixternal more info can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository 10:17 stelis FWIW, the idea was to have a stopgap until there is a HB 10:17 nixternal stelis: yes, it is an awesome doc, and just what we needed! As it stands, this makes the handbook almost complete, then you are my new HERO! 10:18 nixternal hell, all the work you put into it, you are my hero :) 10:18 stelis I guess it depends how comprehensive you want your HB to be 10:19 willvdl stelis, as comprehensive as possible 10:19 nixternal stelis: we shall leave that up to willvdl, I am just a docmonkey 10:19 willvdl as as many audience as possible. 10:19 willvdl v. ambitious 10:19 stelis This Quickstart is enough to get somebody going 10:19 nixternal they feed me bananas and I type, quite horribly I might add 10:19 stelis The text is complete enough as is 10:19 stelis Bananas are good :) 10:19 willvdl nixternal, as long as you can fix my broken links I'm happy 10:19 nixternal willvdl: what broken links? 10:20 willvdl you'll see 10:20 nixternal lol 10:20 willvdl my docbook is still rusty and frayed 10:20 nixternal ahh 10:20 willvdl stelis, I wanted to this week but hopefully next week I can dedicate hours to integrating your stuff 10:21 stelis OK. 10:21 willvdl now that I've got the wiki under wraps 10:21 stelis FWIW, this works as a standalone 10:21 stelis So you could just add screenshots 10:22 stelis I'm conscious that time is short 10:23 stelis But feel free to use it as you need 10:23 stelis There's some other pieces in the same directory 10:23 willvdl stelis, thanks to you we now have options 10:23 stelis I don't have lots of time myself 10:24 willvdl I will, hopefully, up until march 10:24 stelis But I could write up some Release Notes or a few sections of this and that === ogra looks up "lots of time" in his dictionary 10:25 willvdl nixternal, who normally does our finals for the release notes? 10:25 nixternal willvdl: dunno, but I can probably work something out for you since I do the Kubuntu ones 10:26 willvdl I got very confused with the old releases: there where wiki versions, docbook ones, release notes, install notes, release announcements... 10:27 willvdl ogra, clearly you have enough time to do that :) 10:27 ogra :P 10:29 willvdl ok, cool. I'll work something out with stelis and find a path of least resistance 10:31 willvdl shall we wrap up? 10:31 ogra yeah 10:31 willvdl just want to punt my mockup for https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show again 10:31 willvdl shamelessly :) 10:31 willvdl I will work on maing it easier and easier to read as we go === ogra does the same with http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UES-Sevilla :) 10:32 willvdl something like henrik's testing page 10:32 ogra yep 10:32 ogra ok, any other business ? 10:32 willvdl and since we normally end with community: UES Sevilla!!! 10:32 ogra going once 10:32 ogra going twice 10:32 ogra COME TO SEVILLA !!!! 10:33 ogra adjourned !