Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda from the Meeting:

Topics Discussed

• Re-Approval process, and clarifying the current workflow.

The workflow is as follows. When a team is accepted into the approved community, it has two years of undisturbed work. At the end of it's two years, it is put into a renewel pool. If the team is selected, they are reviewed and not considered again for two years. If they are not selected, they go into the pool again next year.

• Meeting attendance -- It was resolved that Laura would email the contacts mailing list no later then the Friday preceding a meeting

  Ways of effectively communicating messages to Local Communities. Topic discussed included getting messages to every member of every loco in a timely manner. It was resolved to look into sending messages to mailing lists

  popey to investigate The LoCo Council being added to all LoCo teams mailing list so the Council can post directly to them

  Ways of using the new features of the LoCo Directory to leverage it's effectiveness in a neat and well-thought out way. We discussed creating features to ease the migration from wiki to LD ( LoCo Directory ).

Partial log. Missing a few lines before 20:26

20:26 < huats> I think the clear misunderstood of the reapproval that people had faced lately and the number of email our mailing list received is quite explicit
20:26 < czajkowski> I'd rather see teams coming here and engaging in discussion
20:26 < paultag> Hey. Sorry I'm late
20:26 < czajkowski> there seems to be a lack of discussion happening here and even on the mailing list
20:26 < huats> on the other hand I have been quite suprised to see a team asking where to find me...
20:26 < czajkowski> paultag: welcome :)
20:27 < YoBoY> hi paultag
20:28 < czajkowski> YoBoY: AlanBell mhall119 you're the only ones who are active here atm. What would you like to see happening? to get discussions going?
20:29 < mhall119> well, this kind of ties into the meeting feature we're talking about for loco-directory
20:29 < AlanBell> well I had no idea I didn't have to shut up :-)
20:29 < mhall119> since loco-council in in the directory, it will be able to add meetings there, and add other teams to those meetings
20:29 < paultag> Hey! Quiet-pants! Let's get some talk going or we might as well stop here!
20:29 < itnet7> popey: may be on to something though, maybe we can use the LoCo Health Check meetings to discuss all of the resources and keep this meeting aside for re-approvals
20:29 < paultag> duanedesign: POKE! You're quite active in the community :)
20:29 < paultag> Joeb454: Ya'here?
20:29 < itnet7> not everyone would have to attend both
20:29 < czajkowski> akgraner: where are you, you're usually a lot more active
20:29 < czajkowski> itnet7: good point
20:30 < mhall119> if we can get teams using ical feeds from LD to advertise meetings to their members, then the loco-council can get on those ical feeds for each team too
20:30 < czajkowski> itnet7: at present folks just attend here for approvals
20:30 < czajkowski> mhall119: *nods*
20:30 < mhall119> czajkowski: she said something in ubuntu-us-nc earlier about not being around as much due to surgery on her arm, but I'm not sure if that's happened yet or not
20:30 < czajkowski> mhall119: would this be also like the UWN ( akgraner ) with the icals for meetins?
20:30 < AlanBell> I just think a "who should attend" line somewhere might be useful
20:30 < YoBoY> don't know... the re approval process is in its way for our locoteam, the wiki explain a lot, i haven't questions aout it yet
20:30 < AlanBell> on the agenda
20:30 -!- nookie^ [~nookie@c-ae83e155.47-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: nookie^]
20:31 < mhall119> czajkowski: UWN has a ical feed?  or do they want an ical feed?
20:31 < akgraner> czajkowski, you are making my machine blink :-)  what's up?
20:31 < itnet7> Well I mean if one or two of the LC members can support each other for the Health Check and we can focus on having a quorom here for the re/approvals that may be a good solution
20:31 < czajkowski> they are doing them
20:31 < paultag> jacob: cjohnston, drubin, nigelb, Poke, ya'll -- We need some more talk on LoCo stuff. You guys around?
20:31 < czajkowski> akgraner: wondeing why folks we know are active are not active in this session
20:31 < cjohnston> ?
20:31 < mhall119> czajkowski: since akgraner asked me for the meeting feature, I guess it would probably replace what UWN is doing
20:31 < akgraner> ahh I am publishing the newsletter at the moment :-)
20:32 < cjohnston> me too
20:32 < popey> nice timing
20:32 < akgraner> mhall119, nope won't replace what we do in UWN but it will give me a place to point people to for LoCo information
20:32 < mhall119> ah, ok, what do you have ical feeds for now?
20:32 < drubin> paultag: yes
20:33 < czajkowski> ok so I think at least as a start we should be mailing the loco contacts mailing list the Friday before the meeting to REMIND them it's on.
20:33 < czajkowski> I'll take that on
20:33 < paultag> drubin: thanks :) -- LoCo council meeting, it's quiet. Can I convince you to stick around and throw your two cents in?
20:33 < akgraner> UWN will report the development team meetings, move the LoCo meetings off the Fridge calendar and on to a LoCo Calendar instead
20:33 < czajkowski> [action] czajkowski to mail loco contacts mailing list the Friday before the meeting to remind people this meeting is on
20:33 < MootBot> ACTION received:  czajkowski to mail loco contacts mailing list the Friday before the meeting to remind people this meeting is on
20:33 < mhall119> akgraner: okay, I understand now
20:33 < drubin> paultag: sure I need to read the scroll back quick though
20:33 < paultag> czajkowski: I should have CC'd contacts when I mailed the council ML
20:33 < paultag> drubin: quite alright
20:34 < akgraner> mhall119, awesome! :-)
20:34 < czajkowski> popey: moving forward what would you suggest? for communication methods?
20:34 < popey> I'm not sure, I wanted us to discuss it, rather than just say 'lets blog it'
20:35 -!- rafael_carreras [~quassel@ubuntu/member/rafaelcarreras] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:35 < popey> figure out what the best way forward is.. if that makes sense
20:35 < huats> popey, makes sense
20:36 < itnet7> definitely popey
20:36 < AlanBell> fwiw I am unconvinced that blogging it is the solution, it won't be seen by people who are not yet involved in Ubuntu
20:36 < czajkowski> popey: well I'd love to see discussions take place on the list
20:36 < paultag> AlanBell: well we are only worried with talking with contacts
20:36 < popey> AlanBell: I am not sure they are target audience anyway
20:36 < czajkowski> I also btw tweet using #locoteams as do very few others, but it's interesting to follow and something we could push
20:36 < paultag> AlanBell: contacts talk with lay members :)
20:36 < popey> target is people who are already in loco teams, who need help, mentoring, direction etc
20:36 < paultag> czajkowski: I like that
20:37 < huats> czajkowski, good idea too
20:37 < czajkowski> popey: true
20:37 < drubin> czajkowski: Nice idea.
20:37 < czajkowski> popey: I think we need to increase the awareness of this Council also - that it's not taboo to contact us.
20:37 < paultag> Wonder if we could have a tweet version of planet ubuntu
20:37 < huats> popey, I do beleive that people who are involved in LoCo teams are quite exposed to planet ubuntu
20:37 < czajkowski> If folks know they can contact us about anything, bouce a loco idea off us or just need a hand, we're here to help
20:38 < czajkowski> paultag: no!
20:38 < huats> popey, I am not saying it is THE solution, but cool be part of it
20:38 < paultag> czajkowski: it will support identi.ca too!
20:38 < popey> sure
20:38 < huats> popey, I meant can be part of it
20:38 < mhall119> paultag: status.net
20:38 < paultag> mhall119: well it's all the same API
20:38 < popey> ok these are technical details
20:39 < paultag> aye
20:39 < AlanBell> popey: what I meant was that blogging is a point in time and the community is growing so new people won't see today's blog entries
20:39 < mhall119> paultag: but status.net can have separate domains
20:39 < popey> the main issue is getting information out to members of locos around the world
20:39 < paultag> mhall119: another issue
20:39 < paultag> +1 popey 
20:39 < huats> AlanBell, of course
20:39 < czajkowski> popey: +1
20:39 < mhall119> paultag: you can ask akgraner about it
20:39 < drubin> popey: I think a biggest issue is gettting the info out to the rest of the people.
20:39 < paultag> mhall119: we'll do that after the meeting if that's the direction we go with :)
20:40 < drubin> I think ubuntu hour was one of the greatest things our loco ever did.
20:40 < czajkowski> popey: is it something we should be mandating points of contacts to pass mails from us to loco contacts list to their teams list
20:40 < paultag> drubin: Yes!!!
20:40 < czajkowski> Or
20:40 < czajkowski> something that the loco council should indeed be mailing LoCo teams mailing list wiht
20:40 < drubin> It has started up a Lug in our area to have their beer evenings again!! it was awsome
20:40 < czajkowski> *with
20:40 < czajkowski> I know this kinda topic came up at UDS
20:40 < drubin> paultag: More global jams and bug things
20:41 < popey> I still think we should mail out to all the loco mailing lists
20:41 < paultag> czajkowski: Humm. Could we set up something fancy with launchpad RE the approved team list, and CC that list ( which will send to all lists )
20:41 < paultag> popey: me too
20:41 < czajkowski> should the loco council post to the Teams mailing list information we want teams to have for definate ie, re approval??
20:41 < mhall119> czajkowski: I'm gonna need to leave in about 15 minutes, will there be time for my agenda item?
20:41 < drubin> like I know when there is a global thing my loco gets excited and wants to be involved but if it is just SA they aren't so keen
20:41 < AlanBell> do you think there should be a "who should attend" section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
20:41 < popey> yes al
20:41 < czajkowski> AlanBell: yes
20:41 < popey> +tab
20:41 < czajkowski> popey: see my comment above
20:41 < YoBoY> drubin: you can organize that without the global event thing ;)
20:41 < czajkowski> mhall119: should be
20:42 < akgraner> paultag, let me get UWN published - and I'll be happy to answer question about status.net :-)
20:42 < drubin> YoBoY: you missed my point, when it is global people are always more keen! :)
20:42 < paultag> akgraner: we'll do it after the meeting, deal?
20:42 < drubin> and yes we do.
20:42 < paultag> akgraner: :)
20:42 < akgraner> nods
20:42 < YoBoY> drubin: ok
20:42 < huats> czajkowski, I think we cannot completly rely on loco contacts
20:42 < huats> we have seen that of a few occasions lately
20:42 < drubin> ;/ that is sad
20:43 < paultag> huats: I agree
20:43 < czajkowski> huats: what about for imporatn mails, we actually mail the loco mailing list itself, ie we'd mail all the teams approved and unaproved with issues we want to bring to their attention
20:43 < czajkowski> so ireland france uk would get the mail from us
20:44 < paultag> oi oi, Ohio too!
20:44 < mhall119> everyone except Ohio ;)
20:44 < paultag> :P
20:44 < drubin> as long as it is low traffic
20:44 < czajkowski> paultag: I wasn;t going to list all of the teams out! I'd be here all evening my dear!
20:44 < paultag> drubin: +1, and major stuff :)
20:44 < paultag> czajkowski: :)
20:44 < popey> heh
20:44 < czajkowski> drubin: it'd be only for important mails
20:44 < drubin> 90% of the stuff on loco-contacts is useless for most locos
20:44 < huats> czajkowski, this is something we have envisaged : to have a direct access to loco mailing list
20:44 -!- thekorn [~markus@a89-182-202-70.net-htp.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:45 < drubin> czajkowski: Just making it noted but ye I assumed it would be
20:45 < czajkowski> well it'd take us the loco council being added to all of the teams
20:45 < czajkowski> drubin: :)
20:45 < paultag> czajkowski: could we sneak something with the launchpad group?
20:45 < czajkowski> paultag: leave lp alone :p
20:45 < paultag> czajkowski: we already have a list, maintaining it is hard IMHO
20:45 < drubin> also just so you know that most of the teams don't use LP for thier mailing lists
20:45 < paultag> czajkowski: well shucks, it would save us time!
20:45 < czajkowski> popey: would it take much for us to be added to all of the teams ??
20:45 < paultag> drubin: I know, but if their contact addy was the ML we would be all set
20:46 < paultag> drubin: us --> lp --> lp teams --> lists.ubuntu for each team
20:46 < popey> it would just take 5 mins subscribing to each mailman list
20:46 < popey> and set them all to nomail
20:46 < popey> so we dont get all their mail, we just send mail to their list as a subscriber
20:46 < drubin> well maybe it would be better to subscribe the council to each team.
20:46 < popey> yup
20:46 < AlanBell> agenda fixed.
20:46 < czajkowski> ok, how does that sound to the council, going forward for important mails and annoucements we send our mail directly to the teams ??
20:46 -!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
20:47 < paultag> I'll +1 it, even though it's more work :)
20:47 < popey> I'd check thats okay with jono / the cc
20:47 < popey> its not much work tbh
20:47 < paultag> I'm kidding popey :)
20:47 < paultag> I'm all for it. I think it would help a lot
20:47 < huats> czajkowski, +1 for me too
20:47 < paultag> Just worried about RE mail, but that is OK.
20:47 < itnet7> sounds good to me
20:47 < czajkowski> [action] popey to investigate The LoCo Council being added to all LoCo teams mailing list so the Council can post directly to them
20:47 < MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to investigate The LoCo Council being added to all LoCo teams mailing list so the Council can post directly to them
20:47 < huats> popey, you are right to ask for it with CC and jono
20:47 < drubin> +1 fro popey
20:48 < czajkowski> ok does anyone have any further comments as I'd like to move onto mhall119 topic please
20:48 < drubin> any thing >1 per month IMHO is to high trafficthough
20:48 < czajkowski> [topic] LoCo-Directory Meeting Feature
20:48 < MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo-Directory Meeting Feature
20:48 < czajkowski> mhall119: you're up
20:48 < mhall119> thanks czajkowski
20:49 < czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/MeetingFeature
20:49 < MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/MeetingFeature
20:49 < mhall119> so, after releasing the event tracking feature on loco.ubuntu.com, we've had several people ask us about using it to track IRC meetings
20:49  * mhall119 is one of the loco-directory devs
20:49 < mhall119> the current event feature is really specific to physical meetups, so we're looking into creating an IRC meeting feature to compliment it
20:50 < mhall119> this feature would let teams schedule meetings, give the channel they will be held in, provide a structured list of agenda items, etc
20:50 < mhall119> it would largely replace the use of Wiki pages for these things
20:50 < mhall119> wiki pages would still be used to expand in detail on specific agenda items
20:51 < mhall119> once we have all this data in a structured form, we can produce ical feeds, give it to Mootbot directly, and automatically link to logs and minutes
20:51 < AlanBell> I am working on an improved mootbot framework in this cycle which would do nice automated mintues, it could integrate directly with the loco directory to read agenda items and publish minutes and action points back
20:51 < czajkowski> So I asked mhall119 to bring this up onthe list - but there was silence on it.  Just because I don't think it's very fair if one team makes a suggestion for this and then it gets implemented and all teams now have to use it. Then information is on the wiki and on the LD
20:52 < paultag> I'm here, but eating dinner. Don't mistake me for missing!
20:52 < huats> ok czajkowski
20:52 < huats> you were right to do so
20:52 < mhall119> we wouldn't force teams to use this feature instead of the wiki, but once more and more people are using it as a source of data, they will likely feel compelled to do so
20:52 < czajkowski> I also think that by adding more and more features to replace the wiki, teams may not be confortable with this and then information is all over the place
20:53 < czajkowski> mhall119: so that;s kinda forcing people by the fact that most do.
20:53 < AlanBell> the mootbot changes would have to be backwards compatible and also wiki optimised as the loco directory only does loco teams, all other teams that hold meetings would not be helped by this
20:53 < mhall119> so far the reception to the events feature has been very positive
20:53 < paultag> mhall119: can you talk with wiki?
20:53 < czajkowski> Also for the council to review teams, to have information in one place and not all over the place does help
20:53 < mhall119> paultag: not really, because wiki's aren't structured
20:53 < paultag> mhall119: perhaps we can have loco-directory write to /loco-direcotory/automated/team/event/ 
20:53 < paultag> mhall119: and from there include it on the page of the team
20:53 < mhall119> we could post to a wiki, I suppose, but not reliably read from it
20:54 < paultag> mhall119: all you have to work out is how to auth
20:54 < paultag> mhall119: you don't need to read
20:54 < mhall119> then yes
20:54 < mhall119> or a Moin macro can be made to retrieve data from the directory and format it for the wiki
20:54 < paultag> mhall119: perhaps move it all to loco-directory that way
20:54 < czajkowski> I think what mhall119 wanted to know and see was if teams would use this. But I don;t think there are enough people to really discuss this either
20:55 < mhall119> now, to go back to the previous discussions, since loco-council is one of the teams loco.ubuntu.com is aware of, they can post their meetings there too, and include other teams in those meetings
20:55 < paultag> czajkowski: hopefully it won't impact teams that don't use it
20:55 < mhall119> also, for reapprovals, the loco-council could schedule the meeting and include each team that is up for re-approval
20:56 < mhall119> it won't directly impact teams that don't use it, but if most teams do use it, the teams that don't may miss out on new features
20:56 < mhall119> I don't think that's really forcing them though, just offering a better option
20:56 -!- gnomefreak [~gnomefrea@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:56 < mhall119> as long as Mootbot can continue to take manual direction
20:56 < mhall119> it shouldn't interfere with their current methods
20:57 < czajkowski> mhall119: hmm my objection still stands though. Team members getting developers to work on this is great, but no discussion with teams and then implementing it, isn't very community driven either
20:57 < mhall119> but, it would mean akgraner would have to pull from loco-directory and the wiki for UWN
20:57 < mhall119> czajkowski: I agree, and I would like to see more discussion about it
20:57 < paultag> mhall119: well right now we have 100% of the teams on the wiki
20:57 < popey> creating it is fine, forcing it on locos isnt czajkowski, i agree
20:57 < mhall119> unfortunately there's just been a lot of silence
20:57 -!- lag [~lag@cpc2-aztw21-0-0-cust264.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:57 < paultag> mhall119: we are going to work on migrate, but it takes time, and we can't rush new things
20:57 < drubin> mhall119: btw you have made some assumptions like only using freenode. not being able to use it for physical meetings, not having a list of people present
20:58 < mhall119> we've had several requests for the feature, and one complaint
20:58 < czajkowski> popey: right, which is what is gonna happen :(
20:58 < czajkowski> mhall119: I've also seen no discssion either
20:58 < mhall119> drubin: yes, feel free to bring those up in the spec, it's still in the planning stage
20:58 < czajkowski> mhall119: my complaint is that disussion hasn't happened
20:58 < mhall119> czajkowski: understood, I'm trying to change than
20:58 < mhall119> that
20:59 < czajkowski> mhall119: I know
20:59 < huats> czajkowski, but I fear that there might have no discussion...
20:59 < mhall119> my feeling is, if there is little interest, no objection, and a lot of indifference, that's enough to justify doing it
20:59 < czajkowski> huats: so we're back at tonights earlier topic :)
20:59 < czajkowski> mhall119: :o
21:00 < AlanBell> I am unsure why there is a concern about this being forced on teams
21:00 < huats> on another hand I thik that sometimes the discussion starts once someone is trying to use it, so it needs to be done... (but I assume it is not the right way to do stuffs)
21:00 < mhall119> the biggest impact would be on akgraner and UWN, as they would have to pull from two sources if teams continued using the wiki
21:00 < paultag> that's not true mhall119 
21:00 < drubin> the point about scrum and stories is developsomething small, and interate.
21:00 < drubin> if it doesn't work change it
21:01 < paultag> mhall119: you can not pull from the loco-directory, only pull from the loco directory or both
21:01 < mhall119> I don't follow
21:01 < paultag> mhall119: I like the loco-directory, but we need to work on a slow migraton. For now the Wiki is the most upto date source
21:01 < czajkowski> mhall119: fair enough but I don't think we should change based on UWN either. Some teams like wikis and tbh, most teams aren't useing the LD as much as they could
21:01 < paultag> mhall119: that's why I'm thinking a wiki bridge might aid in adoption
21:02 < czajkowski> I'd rather see more of a focus getting teams to use the LD and posting events to it
21:02 < czajkowski> before meetings
21:02 < drubin> +1 from my side
21:02 < huats> czajkowski, I agree
21:02 < mhall119> paultag: would we be allowed to add a Moin macro to the Ubuntu wiki servers?
21:02 < drubin> there seems to be an perception that it is hard to post an event
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21:02 < czajkowski> huats: I think the focus for this cycle should be getting teams to use the LD, adding their events and detals on it
21:02 < drubin> or even sign up to an event
21:02 < paultag> mhall119: perhaps, but it's really easy to do it the other way -- why not just write to wiki pages
21:02 < czajkowski> and not meetings
21:03 < mhall119> drubin: how so?
21:03 < paultag> mhall119: just set up /loco-directory/automated/ blah blah
21:03 < huats> czajkowski, I agree with you
21:03 < mhall119> paultag: we would need to authenticate to the wiki
21:03 < czajkowski> huats: :)
21:03 < paultag> mhall119: trivial
21:03 < drubin> mhall119: I have no idea just does ;/
21:03 < mhall119> paultag: okay then, would you help us with that part?
21:03 < drubin> mhall119: I am not saying I feel that it is the feeling I get from other people
21:03 < huats> czajkowski, so it might be worth putting an effort on developping an early version of the meetings :) and improve it while team start using it on the next cycle
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21:05 -!- huats [~chris@ubuntu/member/huats] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
21:05 < drubin> Ok but I need to get going.. sorry I couldn't stay the full meeting, but I think emailing the loco-contacts before the meeting would help.
21:05 < czajkowski> drubin: ok we;ll be doing that in future
21:05 < paultag> ty drubin 
21:05 < czajkowski> drubin: thanks for coming
21:05 < mhall119> I need to head out too, are there any questions I can answer before I go?
21:05 < mhall119> feel free to keep discussing it after I'm gone, I'll read the logs from home
21:06 < paultag> mhall119: can you work out the practical way of briding wiki and ld and get back to us?
21:07 < mhall119> paultag: as long as the intention is to move forward with this feature if such a bridge is made
21:07 < mhall119> otherwise it'd just be a waste of time
21:07 < paultag> mhall119: it is
21:07 < AlanBell> paultag: not entirely sure it needs to do that, if mootbot could publish both to the wiki and to the LD then doesn't that solve it?
21:07 < mhall119> ok, I will ask you later how to get LD authenticating to the wiki
21:07 < paultag> AlanBell: well if the events on a wiki page for a team was pulling from LD it would be more up to date then anything else
21:07 < AlanBell> and yeah, I have no idea how to do the auth bit
21:07 < czajkowski> does anyone else have any comments ?
21:07 < paultag> mhall119: thanks rockstar
21:08 < AlanBell> paultag: ah, ok for the events bridge, gotcha.
21:08 < paultag> AlanBell: aye
21:08 < mhall119> I'm in #ubuntu-locoteams or #ubuntu-us-fl all the time if anybody has other questions
21:08 < mhall119> otherwise, put your ideas/concerns on the spec page
21:08 < mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/MeetingFeature
21:08 < czajkowski> mhall119: thanks
21:08 < mhall119> thanks everybody
21:09 < paultag> ty mhall119 
21:09 < huats> thanks everyone
21:09 < czajkowski> Has anyone else got any other topics for the loco council ??
21:09 < czajkowski> [action] paultag write up mins and post to contacts mailing list and update wiki
21:09 < MootBot> ACTION received:  paultag write up mins and post to contacts mailing list and update wiki
21:09 < paultag> :)
21:09 < czajkowski> #endmeeting
21:09 < MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:09.