Agenda from the Meeting:

Topics Discussed

• LoCo Team {re}approvals

  • Ubuntu-SE - not approved
  • Ubuntu-VN - not approved

Summary

21:05 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with MootBot
21:05 <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:05. The chair is czajkowski.
21:05 <MootBot> New Topic:  Sweden loco re approval
21:05 <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwedishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
21:19 <MootBot> IDEA received:  Monthly meetings at the IRC channel
21:29 <MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-se
21:32 <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Swedish loco reapproval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
21:33 <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 5 against. 1 abstained. Total: -5
21:33 <MootBot> AGREED received:  sweden loco un approved
21:34 <MootBot> New Topic:  Vietnam  loco re approval
21:34 <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VietnameseTeam/ReApprovalApplication
21:35 <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu-vn.org/
21:54 <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Vietnamese loco.  ONLY UBUNTU LOCO COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE..
21:57 <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 0
21:58 <MootBot> AGREED received:  vietnamese team not approved
21:59 <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:59.
21:59 <MootBot> Logs available at http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/

Logs

Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[15:05:37] <czajkowski> aloha to tonights meeting
[15:05:50] <czajkowski> [topic] Sweden loco re approval
[15:06:09] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwedishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[15:06:22] <popey> Who's here form Sweden?
[15:06:25] <czajkowski> huats: leogg itnet7 popey evening folks
[15:06:49] * Nafallo looks for Farmfield 
[15:06:50] <peetra> _o/ I am a Swesish speaking Finnish girl, active in the Swedish LoCo. _o/
[15:06:50] * PontusOhman Is from Sweden and I'm the Team Contact for Ubuntu Sweden
[15:06:52] <Farmfield> I'm the TeamLeader
[15:06:54] <leogg> hi all
[15:07:04] <Farmfield> ...for the Swedish LoCo
[15:07:11] <czajkowski> PontusOhman: Farmfield nice arrangement
[15:07:32] <czajkowski> Farmfield: so care to tell us a bit about your team please
[15:07:40] <Hund> Im here to. Im one of the admins.
[15:08:16] <amelia> I'm also from the Swedish LoCo, but i'm one of the serveradmins so i'll keep my mouth shut for most of the evening. :)
[15:08:21] <Nafallo> IRC channel founder and ubuntu-se.org host ?
[15:08:27] <czajkowski> amelia: heh
[15:08:58] <itnet7> Hey there!
[15:09:11] <huats> finally itnet7 :P
[15:09:16] <czajkowski> Farmfield: ???
[15:09:23] <Nafallo> meh, arrow on wrong side of the text :-P
[15:09:36] <itnet7> Sorry :-P looking at the re-approval
[15:09:37] <Farmfield> The team. We have a TL and a TC, a quite new combo. Before that (18 months ago) there was 2TC's. We run phpBB as forum and have 3 active admins there. We also have about 5 active moderators. Then we have HakanS - who is here - who's in charge of our Drupal Portal.
[15:10:26] <czajkowski> Farmfield: sounds great from the admin side of things, what about your community
[15:10:31] * HakanS is here
[15:11:01] <Farmfield> We have a stabile community but is lacking in growth.
[15:11:20] <czajkowski> Farmfield: how many active members do you have
[15:11:31] * Nafallo shims in and says the irc channel has about 120 people most of the time
[15:11:31] <Farmfield> We've been speculating about the 'why' but it might be Ubuntu is to good.
[15:12:09] <Farmfield> Growth come from new visitors seeking support and then engaging as enthisiasts. That's in decline
[15:12:21] <Farmfield> We have 200 active members.
[15:12:45] <peetra> ppl don't need the support in the same way any more, most stuff can be solved with google.
[15:13:02] * PontusOhman Is a good example, 2009 new to Ubuntu, 2010 sleeping admin and active Team Contact for Ubuntu Sweden :)
[15:13:18] <Farmfield> 200 people is exluding 50-100 active on IRC. I'm not much of an IRC'er så forgot that. Sry.
[15:13:29] <czajkowski> Farmfield: well you have 59 members on launchpad but 16000 people on forums
[15:13:33] <czajkowski> massive difference
[15:13:47] <czajkowski> can you perhaps tell us why there is a lack of interest in becoming part of the team
[15:13:49] <peetra> But with an average of 3000-4000 visitors/day i think it is a very needed site, even if the community is not spamming it all the time/ every five minute.
[15:14:10] <Farmfield> people register to ask how to change the background picture and then they don't need more support, they won't register at Launchpad
[15:14:11] <Farmfield> ;)
[15:14:46] <peetra> Launchpad is difficult and hard to find anything at all in especially for newbies (like me)
[15:15:15] * Nafallo wasn't aware we had a launchpad group...
[15:15:29] <PontusOhman> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-se
[15:15:29] <itnet7> Farmfield: I see you have an irc channel, do you do monthly meetings?
[15:15:32] <Farmfield> I gotta go for 2 minutes - my son is having a breakdown.
[15:15:55] <czajkowski> well most members sign up on lp
[15:16:00] <peetra> No monthly meetings
[15:16:02] <czajkowski> PontusOhman: can you tell us about events you run
[15:16:07] <czajkowski> what do you do for face to face events
[15:16:16] <Nafallo> now we have 60 people on LP :-P
[15:16:37] <PontusOhman> Will try to do my best here so...
[15:16:40] <peetra> i signed up on lp by mistake. ^^ It came with the Ubuntu One thingy?
[15:17:31] <PontusOhman> We got some ppl on different places over Sweden that have release parties in the spring and in the autumn
[15:17:31] <czajkowski> PontusOhman: thanks
[15:17:39] <Farmfield> Condoms people. Use them.
[15:17:49] <Farmfield> And yes, I'm back.
[15:17:56] <peetra> *61
[15:18:25] <PontusOhman> And if you ask us about monthly meetings in the LoCo, no not at this moment we have it.
[15:18:55] <PontusOhman> But I have plans to bring it up for us in the future :)
[15:19:12] <peetra> [IDEA] Monthly meetings at the IRC channel
[15:19:14] <czajkowski> PontusOhman: any regular meet ups or life outside of the forums
[15:19:18] <czajkowski> i'm not saying forums are bad
[15:19:29] <czajkowski> just 16000 v 61 people is a massive differene
[15:19:31] <PontusOhman> czajkowski: Yes, we have!
[15:19:34] <peetra> The forums rules!
[15:20:04] <PontusOhman> As a fact I'm running a GNU/LUG in my town that's meets up every month
[15:20:11] <Nafallo> I believe part of the trouble here is awareness of the launchpad group.
[15:20:28] <czajkowski> PontusOhman: a GNU/LUG isn't a loco
[15:20:29] <Nafallo> I've been with the LoCo from the very very very beginning, and I didn't know about such a group.
[15:20:48] <Farmfield> czajkowski: The Swedish LoCo is focused on support - even though everything else is there. But focusing on support equals phpBB and that's why we're 16.000 + members in phpBB
[15:21:04] <peetra> I can't see why we need new Ubuntu users in the lp-team? That is the problem, can czajkowski tell us why?
[15:21:27] <leogg> peetra: for translations and bug reports?
[15:21:33] <huats> What about Team reports ?
[15:22:08] <huats> are you doing them ? if not do you plan to ?
[15:22:08] <czajkowski> peetra: for being a part of the ubuntu community
[15:22:09] <peetra> okej, so we should get all the windows emigrants directly involved with bug reports and translating? :O
[15:22:15] <Nafallo> leogg: translations is mostly handled directly upstream. we have some great guys working on that. we tend to not use launchpad, but commit straight.
[15:22:25] <popey> 16000 is a significant chunk of people
[15:23:07] <itnet7> Peetra no one said to get all of them into LP, even though that would be awesome for a 16k+ team in LP
[15:23:15] <peetra> :D
[15:23:47] <itnet7> but as people get involved with the team, the natural thing would be to encourage them to join your LoCo and help the team contribute, even teach them how
[15:23:52] <Nafallo> I'm not sure how bug reports would tie in to a launchpad group specifically? also, most of peoples problems can be solved in forums/on irc. it's very seldom I've seen people with genuine bugs on the IRC channel
[15:23:54] <PontusOhman> czajkowski: If we lock beyond the the release parties... Some groups (cities / towns) from the LoCo meets up
[15:24:57] <leogg> Nafallo: bug reporting is a nice and easy way to contribute back to the community :)
[15:25:29] <Nafallo> leogg: yes, if the problems are genuine bugs... :-)
[15:25:49] <Farmfield> I must ask czajkowski and popey; What about 16.000 people? It's the abount of registered members - many of them not more than casual visitors asking 1-3 questions - generated since fall 2004. It's not a massive amount of people, it's a long time.
[15:25:52] <Nafallo> I'm not debating the importance of bug reports here :-)
[15:26:31] <czajkowski> Farmfield: as i said it's not a bad thing, i just wonder why they are not part of your loco
[15:26:36] <czajkowski> being on a forum isn't the same thing
[15:26:47] <leogg> Nafallo: me neither, I just don't understand why there are so few people on lp :)
[15:26:49] <popey> We have plenty of documentation detailing how people can get involved in Ubuntu - I don't think this meeting should be trying to cover all of that
[15:26:53] * peetra helps the Swedish community with phpBB and is shore that Ubuntu will manage w/o her raporting bugs
[15:27:16] <popey> What I would like to see is more documentation from the Swedish team of advocacy and other ubuntu community 'work' done over the last year.
[15:27:19] <czajkowski> peetra: if everyone took that attitude we'd have no bugs reported though
[15:27:40] <peetra> I haven't time to do everything
[15:27:50] <Nafallo> leogg: because if me, as one of the first three loco members, doesn't know about such a group.. I can assure you Mr Member doesn't know about it either :-)
[15:27:52] <Farmfield> itnet7: For us, joining the team doesn't involve lp, it involves projects within the LoCo. We havent been good utulizing lp for organizing the LoCo, we've used out own forum.
[15:28:12] <popey> Whilst forum based support and discussion is fantastic (and you've clearly got a significant number of people using the forums) a LoCo team is also about advocacy, bug jams, triaging, translating.. building the community around the team and encouraging people to get involved in the project.
[15:28:12] <czajkowski> Farmfield: do you use the loco directory ?
[15:28:17] <popey> IMO
[15:28:34] <popey> Farmfield: when you say 'organizing the loco' what does that mean?
[15:28:48] <Farmfield> czajkowski: I say as 'Bones' on TV: I don't know what that meens.
[15:28:57] <PontusOhman> popey: > We got documentation for 8.04 LTS, 9.04, 9.10 and 10.04 LTS, and 10.10 is comming up! Both the Desktop and the server is coverd in there :)
[15:29:02] <itnet7> Farmfield: What happens if you lose your hosting?
[15:29:04] <czajkowski> Farmfield: you've never heard of the loco directory?
[15:29:13] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-se
[15:29:39] <Farmfield> czajkowski: Noops. But I guess I should be really ashamed.
[15:29:43] <itnet7> Or if you happen to burn out, does everyone in the team have all the administrative details?
[15:30:07] <Farmfield> itnet7: Whi os 'you'?
[15:30:25] <Nafallo> itnet7: I'm hosting them... :-)
[15:30:45] <Farmfield> itnet7: Who is 'you' in that question?
[15:30:51] * peetra likes Nafallo
[15:30:57] <itnet7> Farmfield: are you the leader?
[15:31:09] <Farmfield> itnet7: TeamLeader, yes.
[15:31:38] <cmpitg> A TeamLeader never heard of the Team?
[15:31:43] <itnet7> Well, teams use launchpad to help manage their LoCo's
[15:32:06] <itnet7> for the most part
[15:32:08] <Farmfield> In general: We have 2 backups made daily to external servers, backup server admins a.s.o... That's not an issue at all.
[15:32:16] <amelia> itnet7: we're hosting the server in UK (nafallo takes care of that), within the serveradmin group i can assure we could have another server up an running within a day and we also keep backups in two different locations in sweden.
[15:32:22] <leogg> Farmfield: IMO as a team leader you should be more aware of what's going on outside the LoCo
[15:32:27] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Swedish loco reapproval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
[15:32:35] <czajkowski> -1
[15:32:53] <huats> -1
[15:32:57] <popey> I'd like to see more real life events, and other community contribution to the project
[15:33:02] <popey> -1
[15:33:06] <leogg> same here
[15:33:08] <leogg> -1
[15:33:08] <itnet7> +0
[15:33:09] <Farmfield> leogg: I am, but it's all a question about the subject. Which subject are you referring to?
[15:33:21] <czajkowski> #endvote
[15:33:30] <popey> Sorry guys and gals..
[15:33:32] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[15:33:35] <leogg> Farmfield: are you subscribed to the locoteams mailing list?
[15:33:46] <czajkowski> [agreed] sweden loco un approved
[15:33:47] <Farmfield> insane. Show me one loco who match us
[15:33:50] <PontusOhman> leogg: > I am
[15:33:52] <popey> We can certainly help to get you moving in the right direction.
[15:33:57] <Farmfield> And we have 6 years running now
[15:34:15] <Nafallo> Farmfield: actually no. 5 at the most.
[15:34:17] <leogg> PontusOhman: that's great
[15:34:31] <PontusOhman> I'm the TC for Ubuntu Sweden
[15:34:35] <czajkowski> [topic] Vietnam loco re approval
[15:34:43] <czajkowski> anyone here from Vietnam
[15:34:45] <czajkowski> ?
[15:34:45] <Farmfield> Nafallo: Founded fall 2004 according to the wiki?
[15:34:46] <ptkhanh> o/
[15:34:47] <afterlastangel> yes
[15:34:49] <afterlastangel> 1+
[15:34:57] <CoconutCrab> I am here
[15:35:01] <cmpitg> Me, too
[15:35:02] <CoconutCrab> o/
[15:35:09] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VietnameseTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[15:35:18] <ducgiang_8888> me
[15:35:22] <cmpitg> I'm a new secretary for Ubuntu-VN
[15:35:24] <czajkowski> ok welcome
[15:35:34] <afterlastangel> Hello, everyone.
[15:35:40] <czajkowski> so who is the team leader or point of contact for this meeting ?
[15:35:41] <PontusOhman> We will come back :)
[15:35:57] <afterlastangel> according wiki this is CoconutCrab
[15:36:11] <czajkowski> [link] http://www.ubuntu-vn.org/
[15:36:39] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: this is our portal, for news and local activity
[15:36:58] <cmpitg> czajkowski: The portal is being very general
[15:37:11] <czajkowski> ok
[15:37:21] <czajkowski> CoconutCrab: so care to tell us about your team ?
[15:37:52] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: we also provide support for new user via web-based IRC form the portal
[15:37:55] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: I am the team contact but currently busy with my schoolwork, so I will ask my friend to do the talking
[15:38:02] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: afterlastangel will do it
[15:38:18] <afterlastangel> CoconutCrab: thanks.
[15:38:21] <CoconutCrab> and I will aid him, together with cmpitg and ptkhanh
[15:38:29] <cmpitg> Sure
[15:38:55] <czajkowski> ok can someone please tell the council about the team please
[15:39:03] <cmpitg> afterlastangel represents team from the South, me from the North
[15:39:19] <cmpitg> Okay, me first
[15:39:54] <cmpitg> The Ubuntu-VN community has around 16,000 members, current ~50 most active members
[15:40:07] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: did you mean how many people are their in out council?
[15:40:22] <czajkowski> afterlastangel: no the loco council.
[15:40:37] <cmpitg> We have 1,300 active members per months
[15:40:44] <cmpitg> czajkowski: Okay, I see
[15:40:46] <peetra> Okey folks, I checked some facts and over 10 000/ 16 000 users have actually logged in to the forum the last year, I am very suprised to find such a great user rate.
[15:41:02] <cmpitg> The local council have ~20 members
[15:41:10] <cmpitg> 15 members active every week
[15:41:12] <czajkowski> peetra: we've moved onto another team please
[15:41:27] <peetra> oh, shit
[15:41:31] <czajkowski> cmpitg: what council is this
[15:41:31] <peetra> srry
[15:41:44] <cmpitg> czajkowski: Ubuntu-VN Loco Administration Team
[15:42:00] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: ptkhanh, afterlastangel, cmpitg, excrypf and me are from #ubuntu-vn
[15:42:46] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: I will take over the talking from here
[15:42:55] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: is that okay with you?
[15:43:18] <popey> if it's difficult we could do the approval via email?
[15:43:28] <popey> if the translation is difficult we can give more time
[15:43:46] <CoconutCrab> Ubuntu-vn is around 6 years old Loco
[15:44:01] <CoconutCrab> we have a forum, and irc channel #ubuntu-vn and a mailling list
[15:44:11] <CoconutCrab> but the forum is the most active
[15:44:23] <czajkowski> CoconutCrab: can you tell us why so there are activities only going back to september this year listed http://wiki.ubuntu-vn.org/index.php/LocoTeam_Activities
[15:44:30] <CoconutCrab> because it is the most popular way of communicating on the internet
[15:45:08] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: because before that, us student have to do the exam :), also summer vacation
[15:45:15] <CoconutCrab> I know that isn't a good answer
[15:45:21] <czajkowski> CoconutCrab: but you've said you're active for 6 years
[15:45:31] <CoconutCrab> but most of ubuntu-vn members are students and pupil
[15:45:42] <cmpitg> That's right
[15:45:45] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: the old people has moved away, like the founder
[15:45:57] <CoconutCrab> we haven't heard from him for more than one year
[15:46:14] <cmpitg> Also
[15:46:17] <CoconutCrab> like me, I have only joined ubuntu-vn for 2 years
[15:46:19] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: the /LocoTeam_Activities are log since the first approval
[15:46:35] <czajkowski> right but you were approved 2 years ago and only list event since september 2010
[15:46:43] <cmpitg> Because we consist of mostly students, offline activities are prefered
[15:46:43] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: no
[15:46:48] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: just about months.
[15:46:55] <czajkowski> afterlastangel: well the wiki page is then not up to date.
[15:47:03] <CoconutCrab> another reason is that before september, we didn't have a secretary to do the reporting
[15:47:19] <leogg> afterlastangel: you were approved a couple of months ago?
[15:47:22] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: we were approved April this year
[15:47:27] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: their are some misunderstanding
[15:47:33] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: semi-approved :)
[15:47:51] <CoconutCrab> czajkowski: with a condition to re-approve in the next few months
[15:47:59] <leogg> CoconutCrab: yes, I remember... we asked you to come back
[15:48:04] <cmpitg> czajkowski: As you see, the wiki page was created recently, but it already has plenty of information
[15:48:09] <CoconutCrab> leogg: :)
[15:48:11] <cmpitg> czajkowski: Since we now have a secrectary
[15:48:31] <czajkowski> it's a wiki page, you don't need a secretary to update a wiki page.
[15:48:40] <czajkowski> anyone can do it
[15:48:54] <cmpitg> czajkowski: But we need some one who do the report and summarize them
[15:49:03] <cmpitg> czajkowski: Make statistics, strategies, ...
[15:49:14] <cmpitg> czajkowski: This has to be done in a centralized way
[15:49:42] <cmpitg> czajkowski: So that the activities could be more effective
[15:49:45] <czajkowski> cmpitg: hmm not really tbh.
[15:50:26] <cmpitg> czajkowski: This could be improved
[15:50:47] <cmpitg> czajkowski: In a very rapid period of time
[15:51:13] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: we have just run as a Approved Loco team for 7 months and had 4 activities offline
[15:51:33] <cmpitg> Actually 4 "big" activities
[15:52:03] <cmpitg> We have weekly and monthly meetings an AUF/CNF centers
[15:52:28] <cmpitg> Where we provide support, trial, ... everything related to LP and Ubuntu
[15:52:32] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: I mean we want to have more activity out the forum and the Internet, could bring ubuntu to more people in Vietnam where the Internet access maybe luxury
[15:53:10] <cmpitg> From OOo.org training, Ubuntu tips and tricks, installing and using, ...
[15:53:30] <cmpitg> We have constantly 2 people working on it every Saturday afternoon
[15:53:45] <cmpitg> So every one could find us anytime
[15:54:12] <czajkowski> ok think we're ready to vote
[15:54:32] <cmpitg> Okay
[15:54:46] <afterlastangel> czajkowski: we forgot adding the 10.04 Release party .. I think this is the fifth activity
[15:54:46] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Vietnamese loco. ONLY UBUNTU LOCO COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE.
[15:54:55] <czajkowski> -1
[15:54:58] <huats> 0
[15:55:00] <leogg> 0
[15:55:39] <popey> 0
[15:55:46] <popey> +0
[15:55:55] <leogg> +0
[15:56:07] <huats> +0
[15:56:22] <czajkowski> itnet7: ping
[15:57:45] <czajkowski> well 4/6 of us have voted
[15:57:55] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[15:57:57] <Nafallo> 5/6
[15:58:08] <popey> yes, 5/6
[15:58:21] <cmpitg> And...?
[15:58:29] <czajkowski> [agreed] vietnamese team not approved
[15:58:40] <CoconutCrab> okay, thank you all
[15:58:53] <afterlastangel> is this a new mechanism of voting?
[15:58:54] <huats> I would expect a better applications that put more highlight on the great work I am sure you are doing
[15:59:07] <popey> afterlastangel: no
[15:59:22] <cmpitg> It's just the matter of "showing", IMO
[15:59:27] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.