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(01:00:12 PM) kwwii: ok, let's get going we have a bit to discuss
(01:00:30 PM) encompass: ok
(01:00:42 PM) kwwii: how does this thing work again....let's see how big of a fool I can make of myself
(01:00:46 PM) kwwii: #startmeeting
(01:00:47 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is kwwii.
(01:00:47 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(01:01:10 PM) Kver: That seemed fairly easy... Too easy.
(01:01:14 PM) andreasn: I forgot all about the commands since last time as well :)
(01:01:27 PM) kwwii: hehe, it is deceptively easy to forget
(01:01:50 PM) kwwii: anyone have anything we need to add to the agenda or something to bring up now before we start on the agenda?
(01:01:58 PM) encompass: yes I do
(01:02:00 PM) encompass: :)
(01:02:08 PM) kwwii: encompass: please, go ahead
(01:02:14 PM) encompass: at least I just emailed it so you may not have it...
(01:02:38 PM) kwwii: nothing yet
(01:02:55 PM) andreasn: url to the agenda?
(01:03:05 PM) Kver: MeMaker, corrent?
(01:03:11 PM) Kver: *correct
(01:03:11 PM) kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings
(01:03:16 PM) andreasn: thanks!
(01:03:19 PM) kwwii: np
(01:03:20 PM) Kver: see, no speelcak.
(01:03:20 PM) somerville32: [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings
(01:03:21 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings
(01:03:32 PM) encompass: I am the creator of a program called memaker, we need artwork for it.  Beings it is hopefully going into the next ubuntu live cd and part of the ubuntu desktop we the memaker team feel it is important to get themed artowrk for memaker.
(01:03:35 PM) kwwii: ahhh, yes, MeMaker
(01:03:36 PM) encompass: there :D
(01:04:00 PM) encompass: kwwii good, at least someone knows it here... :D
(01:04:06 PM) kwwii: Thorsten started working on one head
(01:04:23 PM) kwwii: hehe, macslow showed it to me when we were looking into the new gdm stuff
(01:04:37 PM) kwwii: pretty important for us, so yes, we do need to get some nice pics to include
(01:05:17 PM) kwwii: encompass: should we send any interested parties directly to you?
(01:05:28 PM) Who_: encompass: have you had any response so far form your mail to the list?
(01:05:33 PM) encompass: kwwii yeah... and for now we have a great theme to start with... cocohead... but everyone is free to make what they like if they ahve something else they want to try
(01:05:49 PM) encompass: yes, we have a very active list...
(01:05:51 PM) encompass: let me get that...
(01:07:18 PM) encompass: http://lists.memaker.org/listinfo.cgi/memaker-art-memaker.org
(01:07:18 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://lists.memaker.org/listinfo.cgi/memaker-art-memaker.org
(01:07:19 PM) encompass: there
(01:07:37 PM) kwwii: encompass: one good thing to point to would be some instructions on what one needs to be care of when working on this stuff
(01:07:58 PM) CpidWolf: Hi, sorry i'm late, can someone summup what you are talking about ? =) thanks.
(01:07:59 PM) encompass: yeah... a good place to start would be...
(01:08:09 PM) CpidWolf is now known as CupidWolf
(01:08:11 PM) encompass: http://launchpad.net/memaker/
(01:08:11 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/memaker/
(01:08:17 PM) encompass: it has all relevent links there
(01:08:36 PM) elohel left the room (quit: ).
(01:08:41 PM) kwwii: CupidWolf: we are just about to start going through the agenda, talking about getting some pics for MeMaker
(01:08:43 PM) encompass: including general instructions on how to make a themed set
(01:09:05 PM) CupidWolf: okay, thank you
(01:09:07 PM) kwwii: encompass: we might want to add a part to our wiki about this stuff with the links, contact info, etc
(01:09:34 PM) encompass: ok what page would you like me to add that to?
(01:09:47 PM) Who_: encompass: I was thinking when I asked about lists of whether the ubuntu-artwork list had produced anything yet...
(01:10:03 PM) zLox: Hi there. Please decide to ditch Launchpad. It is proprietary and evil!
(01:10:09 PM) encompass: Who_: nope... nothing
(01:10:11 PM) kwwii: hrm, not sure...let me see
(01:10:27 PM) encompass: Actually I think I kind of lost in the mess
(01:11:48 PM) zLox: Evil, I tell thee!
(01:11:55 PM) encompass: It not to hard to get started in memaker... and themes are made in inkscape
(01:12:17 PM) _MMA_: encompass: Has it been packaged yet?
(01:12:29 PM) kwwii: I guess for a start we could put something in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate
(01:12:54 PM) encompass: _MMA_: jsut finishing that... should be ready in a few days
(01:12:56 PM) kwwii: ok, let's get to the agenda before it gets too late
(01:12:59 PM) _MMA_: k
(01:13:03 PM) thorwil: plop!
(01:13:11 PM) encompass: thorwil: hey there...
(01:13:18 PM) kwwii: TOPIC Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:13:23 PM) kwwii: TOPIC: Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:13:25 PM) kwwii: erm
(01:13:33 PM) Kver: try the []'s
(01:13:33 PM) encompass: thorwil: has been working on some art
(01:13:44 PM) kwwii: [TOPIC) Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:13:46 PM) somerville32: [TOPIC] Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:13:54 PM) kwwii: oh come on
(01:14:00 PM) lapo: kwwii: you really need to learn how to use that bot :-)
(01:14:01 PM) steph_ has changed the topic to: Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:14:06 PM) Kver: Should I make my lord of the rings reference?
(01:14:08 PM) somerville32: ...
(01:14:11 PM) kwwii: steph_: no, not that
(01:14:11 PM) steph_: =) : /topic
(01:14:14 PM) steph_: oops.
(01:14:26 PM) somerville32: kwwii, type what I typed
(01:14:39 PM) thorwil: encompass: i will work on it some more :)  getting worried about how long it atkes, though
(01:14:39 PM) encompass: there we go
(01:14:41 PM) Kver: You missed the second square bracket.
(01:14:47 PM) ubotu has changed the topic to: Current meeting: Art Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jan 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
(01:14:50 PM) kwwii: lol
(01:14:58 PM) Kver: huzzah!
(01:15:10 PM) kwwii: [TOPIC] Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:15:10 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Theme/Icons roadmap for hardy and hardy+1
(01:15:13 PM) encompass: thorwil: your working on the life like one right?
(01:15:14 PM) kwwii: w00t
(01:15:22 PM) thorwil: encompass: yes
(01:15:37 PM) encompass: thorwil: as nice at it is... I don't think that is "themed" enough for ubuntu
(01:16:09 PM) thorwil: encompass: let's talk about that another time, gotta be ontopic here ;)
(01:16:11 PM) kwwii: so, in case anyone has not seen the blueprints or heard the news from the mailing list we will not be radically changing Hardy themeing because it is the last in the LTS cycle
(01:16:27 PM) kwwii: Hardy+1 will be the first version with a totally different theme
(01:16:38 PM) kwwii: this does not mean that we should not be working on this stuff now though
(01:16:41 PM) Who_: kwwii: so do we plan to start developing that theme now
(01:16:42 PM) Who_: ?
(01:17:05 PM) Who_: (kwwii - using the mootbot, can we all suggest 'ideas, or is that for you?)
(01:17:28 PM) kwwii: we need to get a very good idea of where we want to go now and with Hardy change a few things to show direction and get things together so that we can really start changing things with a plan over a longer time
(01:17:34 PM) kwwii: Who_: no idea
(01:17:37 PM) kwwii: try it
(01:17:47 PM) encompass: if anyone want to continue talking about memaker hope into ubuntu-artwork and we can talk more there
(01:18:01 PM) Who_: [IDEA] We start the development of the Hardy +1 theme now
(01:18:02 PM) MootBot: IDEA received:  We start the development of the Hardy +1 theme now
(01:18:27 PM) Who_: 6 months seems a very short time for a complete rethink
(01:18:31 PM) kwwii: Who_: exactly, that is the plan but it should be clear that such radical changes will not be included in HArdy
(01:18:32 PM) steph_: ok so Hardy won't have the brand new theme announced on the Web ?
(01:18:43 PM) damianvila: [IDEA] Let's do big changes from LTS to LTS, the other releases just change or add backgrounds and polich the theme...
(01:18:43 PM) MootBot: IDEA received:  Let's do big changes from LTS to LTS, the other releases just change or add backgrounds and polich the theme...
(01:19:07 PM) kwwii: Who_: doing things on a strictly 6month cycle is like reinventing the wheel every 6 months when there is only so many ways to draw a circle
(01:19:10 PM) Who_: damianvilla: that's a good idea but the NEW theme should be at the beginning of the LTS cycle
(01:19:12 PM) damianvila: *polish, sorry
(01:19:26 PM) Who_: kwwii: I agree :)
(01:19:58 PM) kwwii: damianvila: yes, the plan is that the LTS ends a cycle so in between we will have more major changes which we will polish until that cycle ends with it'S LTS
(01:20:00 PM) Who_: damianvilla: that way when we get to the LTS release it is polished and beautiful
(01:20:04 PM) Kver: On short-term releases, we try new stuff; On long-term releases, we polish...
(01:20:09 PM) kwwii: exactly
(01:20:22 PM) Kver: I'm smurt.
(01:20:23 PM) zLox: [IDEA] We stop using Launchpad, since it's proprietary and evil.
(01:20:23 PM) MootBot: IDEA received:  We stop using Launchpad, since it's proprietary and evil.
(01:20:34 PM) somerville32: zLox,please stop
(01:20:39 PM) kwwii: as far as icons go, we have so much to do that there is no real break yet
(01:20:43 PM) Who_: kwwii: so then, what are the main targets for polish THIS release - can they go on in the background of a bigger redesign for the NEXT release?
(01:20:45 PM) Kver: He'd hate my toaster, it's proprietary.
(01:20:48 PM) Kver: Burns toast.
(01:20:53 PM) steph_: :D
(01:21:11 PM) kwwii: Who_: some parts of it, yes
(01:21:15 PM) zLox: just the truh
(01:21:38 PM) kwwii: for this release we should look into changing the wallpaper, tweaking the theme with some new elements
(01:21:43 PM) steph_: +1
(01:21:48 PM) kallepersson: +1
(01:21:57 PM) kwwii: I would like to see the work on the panel icons get pretty far
(01:22:01 PM) steph_: we've GOT to change those wallpapers
(01:22:02 PM) somerville32: We've already changed the wallpaper :P
(01:22:10 PM) somerville32: Albeit Alpha 3 may not have one at all :P
(01:22:14 PM) encompass: steph_: Totally agree
(01:22:26 PM) andreasn: I had a list with icons that had some issues that could need some tweaks (pixel alignment etc.), but I can't seem to find the list :/
(01:22:26 PM) Who_: I think wallpapers should be a bigger priority than panel icons
(01:22:44 PM) encompass: agree
(01:22:51 PM) Kver: Agreed.
(01:22:54 PM) somerville32: Who_, Do you mean extra ones or the default one?
(01:23:07 PM) steph_: default one is really, really ugly
(01:23:09 PM) encompass: just a default it cool with me
(01:23:12 PM) kwwii: Who_: sure, but this would be one point were we know now that we want that kind of thing in Hardy+1 so getting it in now is a step in the right direction
(01:23:17 PM) Who_: Because of space on the CD, I think we're always talking about the default, plus a couple of extras
(01:23:36 PM) steph_: who's managing the icon theme ?
(01:23:44 PM) kwwii: we only include the default and two other wallpapers, iirc
(01:23:44 PM) steph_: cause I noticed a few changes in Hardy
(01:23:49 PM) Who_: kwwii: yes, good point. hadn't thought of that
(01:23:58 PM) somerville32: kwwii, We only include two wallpapers including the default
(01:24:01 PM) steph_: the Update available icon is just great
(01:24:07 PM) kwwii: steph_: the human icon theme is maintained by the art team (and myself I guess)
(01:24:12 PM) Kver: I think we should try to have 3, maybe 4 other wallpapers that are -very- different.
(01:24:21 PM) steph_: aren't we the art team ?
(01:24:37 PM) kwwii: somerville32: we also include the one dawn of ubuntu or whatever it is called
(01:24:41 PM) Who_: Kver: remember that we aren't as free as we can be on what we can put in - space is very limited on teh CD
(01:24:46 PM) steph_: yeah
(01:24:48 PM) kwwii: steph_: yes
(01:24:53 PM) steph_: all right
(01:24:55 PM) somerville32: kwwii, ubuntu-wallapers only has two
(01:25:00 PM) somerville32: kwwii, Maybe it is provided by a different package?
(01:25:03 PM) kwwii: somerville32: right
(01:25:19 PM) steph_: I think a really nice one is better than four average
(01:25:33 PM) Who_: kwwii: will there be any colour tweaking for the Human GTK theme?
(01:25:33 PM) thorwil: ack
(01:25:40 PM) Kver: What about the resolution/quality of the file itself?
(01:25:50 PM) Jense: I suggest including four nice ones
(01:26:10 PM) kwwii: so, my whole point is that we need to keep in mind what we are doing in the next 4months and the next 10+ months, how those two things are part of one plan but still seperate
(01:26:13 PM) encompass: I know svg can be hard... but it does save space and looks nice at many resolutions.
(01:26:30 PM) kwwii: Who_: yes, I could imagine us changing things a little bit
(01:26:42 PM) kwwii: Who_: if needed and we come up with something decent
(01:26:43 PM) damianvila: So, Hardy will be a polished Human, right? Maybe witha new wallpaper. Hardy+1 will be a different concept...
(01:27:00 PM) kwwii: damianvila: basicaly
(01:27:14 PM) encompass: dang ... and bummer but it would be most feasable
(01:27:19 PM) steph_: kwwii, I think we still got work to do on the GTK theme, cause I had a look at the Wiki, and none of the theme is good enough, I think
(01:27:21 PM) kwwii: we can start to use some of the ideas though
(01:27:31 PM) kwwii: like the buttons, or the window deco or such
(01:27:44 PM) steph_: yep
(01:27:49 PM) kwwii: we can change quite a bit but we do not want this release to feel like something totally new and untested
(01:28:05 PM) steph_: sure
(01:28:13 PM) kwwii: the point is to know where you want to go in the future and then take little steps toward that
(01:28:13 PM) steph_: but we can tweak a few things
(01:28:20 PM) kwwii: right
(01:28:35 PM) Who_: steph_: you are referring to a NEW theme not being good enough or the current default Human?
(01:28:42 PM) andreasn: changing a theme is a very easy way to break all your applications, so it would probably be safest to make tiny or no changes at all for this release on the gtk theme
(01:29:08 PM) steph_: which one do you mean by NEW one ?
(01:29:19 PM) kwwii: andreasn: right, I can imagine new window decoration buttons, perhaps
(01:29:27 PM) kwwii: and tweaking some colors would go a long way
(01:29:28 PM) Who_: does anyone know whether Human is compliant with Gnome's new colour change system in the Appearance dialogue? Because if it isnt we should probably fix that as a priority
(01:29:29 PM) andreasn: kwwii: sounds sane
(01:29:31 PM) steph_: andreasn, I agree, tiny changes
(01:29:39 PM) kwwii: Who_: no it is still not
(01:29:40 PM) encompass: I want to see something like a new mouse theme too
(01:29:48 PM) Who_: steph_: some of the concepts on the wiki
(01:29:50 PM) thorwil: i think icon tweaks and new wallpaper are  enough for hardy
(01:29:52 PM) lapo: kwwii: window decorations should not be a problem, ui theme probably is
(01:29:54 PM) kwwii: we had a pretty good version but some of the colors where just wrong and nobody could make it better
(01:30:07 PM) Kver: encompass: IDMZ-Black is nice, we could tweak it for a professional look
(01:30:18 PM) steph_: Who_, yeah, there are some ideas we can use, but none of the theme is good enough to be included in Hardy
(01:30:28 PM) kwwii: Who_: that is one thing that we should work towards (and it gives us a good reason to tweak some colors) :-)
(01:30:35 PM) lapo: Kver: please don't use the word professional look :-)
(01:30:38 PM) andreasn: mouse theme is pretty tricky, because the mouse pointer is something that should ideally be as invisible as possible
(01:30:42 PM) lapo: it hasno meaning, really :-)
(01:30:46 PM) Kver: UI theme is the toughie, since we can't control how people use it. If we make changes to the GTK+, we should keep everything in the same engine/dimensions
(01:30:52 PM) Who_: steph_: yea, but Hardy will just be a tweak of existing Human, as per what kwwii has been saying, so they only matter on the 10 month plan :)
(01:31:24 PM) kwwii: Kver: right, for this release no major GTK theme engine change
(01:31:35 PM) lapo: tweaking gtk engine means lot of testing
(01:31:39 PM) steph_: see, a few months ago, I tried many, many themes from Gnome-look, mixed them, tried many thinks, and finally I got back to the Human theme which is, finally, a very good theme
(01:31:43 PM) andreasn: ah, found the url again. :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/GutsyIconReview?highlight=(icon)
(01:31:53 PM) encompass: kwwii: I agree no new gtk engine
(01:32:16 PM) kwwii: and when we change it we will not rename it, it is just a new version even if there are major changes
(01:32:34 PM) kwwii: ok, let's get to the next item in the agenda
(01:32:35 PM) Kver: Ideally, one thing I think is if we edit anything about the GTK theme, we just make it look cleaner, but keep everything else as-is
(01:32:51 PM) lapo: about the gtk theme I'd say to just do small changes here and there to human or use something existing and known to be working with tweaked colors
(01:33:40 PM) kwwii: [TOPIC] Art direction
(01:33:41 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Art direction
(01:34:06 PM) steph_: this topic means what do we want to do precisely in our GTK theme ?
(01:34:21 PM) kwwii: before, during and after the holidays I have been working on getting all the pieces in place and signed off so that it really is official
(01:34:23 PM) zniavre: roundness menus ?
(01:34:40 PM) kwwii: steph_: no, this means that we are talking about the art direction for the next releases
(01:34:56 PM) Kver: Down the road.
(01:35:00 PM) Kver: ... I think.
(01:35:19 PM) kwwii: I have a decent list of answers to some very important questions (audience, message, etc)
(01:35:24 PM) kwwii: Kver: right
(01:35:42 PM) thorwil: cool
(01:35:42 PM) Who_: kwwii: Great :)
(01:35:43 PM) kwwii: I have a somewhat decent palette ready which also includes complementary colors
(01:36:11 PM) Kver: Really, any changes we make now, should be considered part of the plan for the next X years.
(01:36:12 PM) Who_: kwwii: What is the structure for the team planned in the new direction?
(01:36:16 PM) kwwii: next week I will be in London again presenting all this information and showing off mockups and finalizing things
(01:36:42 PM) Keybuk: week after next?
(01:36:47 PM) thorwil: kwwii: we don't get to read it / se it before?
(01:36:51 PM) kwwii: Who_: looking at all the great work from the community recently I think that we will be working closesly with all the teams
(01:36:57 PM) steph_: we should go simple & elegant.
(01:36:59 PM) lapo: kwwii: I hope it goes well with tango palette
(01:37:10 PM) kwwii: Keybuk: erm, right...the week after next
(01:37:33 PM) kwwii: lapo: this palette would not be the entire palette for the icon theme
(01:37:43 PM) Keybuk: you can be in London next week if you like ;) but usually you let your line manager know first <g>
(01:37:48 PM) Who_: kwwii: big questions first: is Mark still calling the design shots? If so, how will he be involved along the way. If  not, who is?
(01:38:06 PM) ***kwwii likes London so much he wants to spend extra time there
(01:38:41 PM) lapo: kwwii: sure, but I'm saying that I hope it goes well with it
(01:38:43 PM) kwwii: Who_: he and others at canonical are the deciders, most/all info will come through me
(01:38:51 PM) kwwii: but it will still be an open process
(01:38:52 PM) ***Kver is jelious; Kver gets to go to "Cold Lake"
(01:39:12 PM) kwwii: Kver: yeah, 3 months of getting up early and jogging - have fun
(01:39:17 PM) encompass: Kver: been to cherry grove :P
(01:39:23 PM) Kver: :P
(01:39:33 PM) Who_: kwwii: so you will regularly report back to find out what direction they like best and guide us in it?
(01:39:35 PM) kwwii: lapo: yeah and we will probably have to tweak things to make that work right
(01:39:45 PM) kwwii: Who_: yes
(01:39:58 PM) kwwii: this ties in well with the theme-team item on the agenda
(01:40:28 PM) Who_: kwwii: Indeed.
(01:41:00 PM) kwwii: let's bring that topic into this one for a moment
(01:41:20 PM) Who_: okie.
(01:41:26 PM) lapo: kwwii: good
(01:41:44 PM) kwwii: I am all for people getting together and working together...it might help spread information and help people help each other to create a complete theme idea
(01:42:02 PM) kwwii: but everyone can still feel free to work in any group form they wish
(01:43:01 PM) Who_: kwwii: I think creating some Theme Teams for this release makes sense. It gives us some experience packaging, and making complete themes not just mockups.
(01:43:04 PM) kwwii: so if two people have a great idea and want to work through it, they are free to do so
(01:43:21 PM) kwwii: Who_: especially when it comes to packaging :-)
(01:43:34 PM) Who_: One of the big benefits I see from it is that we don't need the extra layer of design approval that has caused issues in the past
(01:43:42 PM) kwwii: Who_: how did you find the experience of working in a theme team in the past?
(01:43:47 PM) kwwii: anything we could learn from?
(01:44:14 PM) Who_: Well: 1. I am really glad I did it. I feel it was one of the more productive things I have done as part of this team
(01:44:41 PM) Who_: 2. It was cool to have people using the theme we'd made
(01:45:01 PM) steph_: Who_, sorry, but which theme did you made ?
(01:45:11 PM) kwwii: Who_: yeah, while we get lot's of nice ideas people often find it hard to finalze things on their own
(01:45:26 PM) kwwii: so working in groups will definitely help with that
(01:45:36 PM) Who_: 3. It was difficult to run it truly as a theme team. I had planned that it would be very collaborative. But in the end I ended up calling the design shots. I think that is the way it _needs_ to happen for a complete, cohesive theme
(01:45:41 PM) Who_: steph_ I made hte Blubuntu theme
(01:46:04 PM) damianvila_ is now known as damianvila
(01:46:06 PM) steph_: let me find it...
(01:46:08 PM) kwwii: Who_: I think that with the theme team idea there are some people who are better at some things, etc.
(01:46:38 PM) Who_: indeed - Pingunz made the GDM much better than I would have done in Blubuntu :)
(01:46:40 PM) steph_: Who_, nice work ;)
(01:46:41 PM) kwwii: that is natural in any art project that one person tends to form the ideas
(01:47:00 PM) kwwii: looking at the wiki it should not be too hard to get some teams together
(01:47:06 PM) Kver: It almost makes teams that run like miniature Apple design teams, by the sounds of it.
(01:47:48 PM) Who_: kwwii: Well, I think we struggle at the moment to find anyone to be IN a team or to lead them - not many people have stepped up after the email I wrote suggesting it
(01:47:52 PM) kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate is packed with good ideas, I think that if we took a couple of the popular ones and got people together it would be a good start
(01:48:02 PM) Who_: kwwii: great - I agree
(01:48:25 PM) Who_: kwwii: Troy suggest Launchpadding the theme team idea. Shall I do that?
(01:48:29 PM) kwwii: [ACT]
(01:48:31 PM) kwwii: ahhh
(01:48:39 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Ill hop in once a team is formed around a particular concept.
(01:48:54 PM) lapo: kwwii: most of the theme I see there are pretty impossible to do with current gtk, we'd need hackers
(01:49:03 PM) kwwii: [ACTION] kwwii sends email to list to form a couple of theme teams form the exisiting popular artwork
(01:49:03 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  kwwii sends email to list to form a couple of theme teams form the exisiting popular artwork
(01:49:22 PM) _MMA_: lapo: On that note, who is keeping track of the technical capabilities of say GNOME and Compiz to make sure we are creating things its actually capable of doing?
(01:49:31 PM) Who_: kwwii: Can I suggest that I think it is important that we encourage people to think of themes that aren't hugley like the defualt theme
(01:49:32 PM) kwwii: lapo: this is the long term idea we are looking for, not the specifics or an implemented thing
(01:49:36 PM) steph_: lapo, first they can't be realized, second I don't think they are really good
(01:49:51 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: my colleagues in the desktop team like macslow
(01:50:05 PM) kwwii: I ask him for permission after I make a mockup :-)
(01:50:06 PM) steph_: there are good ideas, but they can't do the next default theme
(01:50:07 PM) Who_: steph_: There's a solution to that ;)
(01:50:09 PM) lapo: steph_: there are some ideas I like
(01:50:14 PM) steph_: yeah, me too
(01:50:23 PM) steph_: well, let's see
(01:50:32 PM) steph_: what do you think about the Union Mockup ?
(01:50:39 PM) steph_: well, not quite the topic, in fact.
(01:50:51 PM) lapo: some elemts are good, but the mockup is pretty generic
(01:51:01 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: Sure so the theme team leaders will need to liaise with MacSlow.
(01:51:04 PM) Kver: It was made to be -very- generic...
(01:51:16 PM) damianvila: Artwork should be in sync with the release's technical constrains, I think
(01:51:30 PM) kwwii: when it comes down to every little thing that we cannot do now we will have to keep in contact with those people, and actually that is part of my job
(01:51:31 PM) lapo: Kver: I mean few gtk widget themed
(01:51:36 PM) lapo: widgets
(01:51:39 PM) Who_: kwwii: in your eyes, are these theme teams aiming for Hardy or Hardy+1?
(01:51:44 PM) kwwii: so much of this information can come through me (but not all of it has to)
(01:52:01 PM) kwwii: Who_: Hardy+1
(01:52:05 PM) _MMA_: Who_: I think it should be up to the team to decide.
(01:52:25 PM) kwwii: there are some very good ideas out there and we need to look at what we can do now, in the short term and what we can do in the long term
(01:52:51 PM) kwwii: but without these ideas down on papaer we cannot get anywhere other than another bad version of where we already were
(01:52:59 PM) Kver: If we look long-term, very much like OSX, we should look at a goal and figure out how to reasonably built to that goal over several releases.
(01:53:00 PM) steph_: kwwii, is there any theme on the Wiki which is looking really good to you ?
(01:53:24 PM) andreasn: I think it would be pretty nice seeing some of those gtk themes implemented, always interesting to see how far you can push gtk
(01:53:26 PM) Who_: kwwii: indeed. When the themeteams were lat run, we were aiming to provide some easy to get alternatives to the default.... It wasn't supposed to be super flashy, it was supposed to be good design with what we had.
(01:54:52 PM) kwwii: steph_: I found interesting ideas in several of them, I'll get to that a bit later
(01:55:26 PM) Who_: kwwii: I also see theme teams as an important way to democratise the art available in Ubuntu - with the default theme _ultimately_ at the behest of canonical, there is a limit to how much a team can contribute.
(01:55:51 PM) steph_: and by the way, working with a team is much more motivating
(01:55:54 PM) Who_: but with community developed themes we can get more contributions _into Ubuntu_ from more people
(01:56:06 PM) kwwii: Who_: yes, if the information flows both ways and is shown to the deciders in the right form and manner
(01:56:31 PM) kwwii: I would really like to see as many community made themes as possible packaged
(01:56:51 PM) kwwii: and I hate to see people get hung up on the default theme
(01:56:52 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Exactly. Once one stops trying to be the default its alot easier to get a theme package into Ubuntu.
(01:57:31 PM) ***_MMA_ has even rolled a live disk using Blubuntu. ;)
(01:58:09 PM) Who_: agreed. It feels to me often like the artwork team stumbles because we have so many people working towards _one_ thing that is decided by very few.
(01:58:27 PM) kwwii: there is no one person who decides on the default theme so people should not think like "I made that theme" or "he made that theme" as there are really a lot of people involved with lots and lots of pieces
(01:58:42 PM) kwwii: over a long time, really
(01:58:45 PM) damianvila: But whoever wants to do it's own theme doesn't need to come here to discuss anything, right? He/She just need to build it and show it to the rest...
(01:58:54 PM) Who_: kwwii: so you don't feel that you are limited in what you can realisticly present to canonical?
(01:59:30 PM) kwwii: damianvila: if they prefer to work like that, yes...but without good information and communication it would be hit or miss with ever getting stuff in to the default theme
(01:59:59 PM) kwwii: Who_: oh, I am certainly limited...I am not going to show any crack artwork and push it
(02:00:11 PM) kwwii: but I think that the sky is the limit with good ideas
(02:00:28 PM) Who_: Can I point out, I don't think that the limited control over the default is any failing of the art team, or it's running - it is the way it has to be :)
(02:00:34 PM) Who_: kwwii: cool!
(02:00:45 PM) lapo: kwwii: good ideas are nothing without anyone implementing/working on them tho :-)
(02:01:11 PM) Who_: I notice they were looking for a 'Conceptual Human Interface Designer'  a while back - does that impact us for Hardy +1? Who is it?
(02:01:33 PM) Who_: (they being Canonical)
(02:01:35 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: "if they prefer to work like that, yes...but without good information and communication it would be hit or miss with ever getting stuff in to the default theme" Sure but you have to admit that the "theme team" idea has come from people feeling too restricted by working with the default process.
(02:01:38 PM) Munchkinguy: Speaking of alternate themes, I'd like to point out that art.ubuntu.com doesn't exist anymore.
(02:01:55 PM) kwwii: lapo: good ideas tend to get implemented one way or the other and if we decide that we want to do something I am sure we will work towards it if it is possible
(02:02:17 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: not sure I get you
(02:02:30 PM) lapo: kwwii: yeah, sure that wasn't my point, but no probs
(02:02:49 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: I think it is simply overwhelming for most people to create an entire theme on their own
(02:03:06 PM) steph_: kwwii, hey, what about the art.ubuntu.com  ?
(02:03:16 PM) steph_: didn't you say it'll be back ?
(02:03:17 PM) lapo: steph_: do you feel it is really needed?
(02:03:33 PM) steph_: don't know, never seen how it is
(02:03:37 PM) kwwii: steph_: yes, it should be coming, we are waiting for the code to get through the approval process
(02:03:45 PM) steph_: all right
(02:03:45 PM) Who_: lapo, steph, kwwii: If we are doing theme-teams, something more structured than a wiki would rock
(02:03:55 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: Ill talk later about it.
(02:04:00 PM) Who_: kwwii: does it link in with Launchpad and ease packaging?
(02:04:04 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: ok, cool
(02:04:05 PM) steph_: Who_, +1, cause the Wiki is a little messy I think
(02:04:15 PM) lapo: Who_: tools are usefull, but people is more  important :-)
(02:04:17 PM) kwwii: Who_: yes, it is integrated with launchpad
(02:04:26 PM) kwwii: that is one of the sticking points, I think
(02:04:40 PM) Who_: kwwii: and the packaging? Can you create a 'theme' and it will spit out a package?
(02:04:46 PM) kwwii: I asked around the other day but have no response as yet
(02:05:09 PM) lapo: well packaging a theme should not be a big issue
(02:05:13 PM) Who_: lapo: Indeed. I can't help but feel that we're not failing on the people front though....
(02:05:13 PM) kwwii: Who_: nope, the automaticArtworkBuilder was the only way to come close to doing that
(02:05:24 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: We have been waiting on code approval for what 3 months now? And if you saw the last meeting Mark himself said Canonical has a backup for their sysadmin stuff alone. I think we just drop it for Hardy.
(02:05:30 PM) kwwii: Who_: and people found that to be too limiting and also too complicated .p
(02:05:45 PM) Who_: kwwii: I'm a bit guilty I know nothing of theme packaging. dholbach packaged Blubuntu
(02:05:48 PM) somerville32: I'm available to do any packaging required
(02:05:53 PM) somerville32: Please feel free to hit me up anytime :)
(02:06:10 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: we'll see what we can do and when we can do it...it might be getting too late though, you are right
(02:06:27 PM) kwwii: somerville32 is my new best friend ;-)
(02:06:32 PM) Who_: smoerville32: You know the art packaging dance?
(02:06:43 PM) Who_: somerville32: ^ (mistyped name)
(02:06:44 PM) ***_MMA_ notes that ubuntustudio-look is in better shape than example-look atm if anyone needs some reference.
(02:07:08 PM) kwwii: the example look package needs a good doing through
(02:07:18 PM) somerville32: aye :)
(02:07:18 PM) kwwii: but there is only so much one can do at a time :p
(02:07:32 PM) somerville32: Where is the example package located at?
(02:07:33 PM) Who_: many hands make light work :P
(02:08:07 PM) steph_: I've got to go
(02:08:08 PM) steph_: cya all
(02:08:10 PM) jpatrick: kwwii: bug #163599 maybe?
(02:08:11 PM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 163599 in example-content "[PATCH] Corrected kubuntu-leafet.png" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163599
(02:08:11 PM) kwwii: Who_: but almost all of that content has the logos and company stuff all over it
(02:08:12 PM) steph_ left the room (quit: "Quitte").
(02:08:19 PM) _MMA_: somerville32: Talk with TheMuso to shape up example-look as he cleaned up ubuntustudio-look.
(02:08:50 PM) ***somerville32 nods.
(02:08:53 PM) Who_: kwwii: which content?
(02:09:09 PM) somerville32: So, is everyone familiar with the changes to how we package artwork for Hardy?
(02:09:14 PM) _MMA_: https://launchpad.net/example-look
(02:09:26 PM) kwwii: erm, I meant the example-content package :p
(02:09:36 PM) kwwii: hehe, oops
(02:09:40 PM) Who_: somerville32: maybe a post to the list on that
(02:09:51 PM) kwwii: the example-look stuff was put together pretty quickly
(02:10:06 PM) kwwii: if anyone wants to have a wack at fixing that package up, feel totally free
(02:10:27 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: somerville32 will do that with TheMuso. ;)
(02:10:49 PM) kwwii: I'm tempted to add that as an action
(02:10:54 PM) somerville32: _MMA_, Maybe file a bug on launchpad and make sure I'm assigned or something?
(02:11:17 PM) _MMA_: Im sure you can handle that. ;)
(02:11:32 PM) kwwii: [ACTION] somerville32 to look into fixing up example-look
(02:11:33 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  somerville32 to look into fixing up example-look
(02:11:53 PM) somerville32: _MMA_, Developers are lazy beasts. :P
(02:12:15 PM) kwwii: it looks like we made our way through most of the items, one way or another
(02:12:22 PM) kwwii: anyone have anything else to add?
(02:12:32 PM) kwwii: ahhh, right, let's talk about some of the mockups
(02:12:32 PM) somerville32: Yes
(02:12:40 PM) somerville32: Can we remove the topic lock in -artwork ?
(02:12:52 PM) somerville32: and set a sane topic too? :)
(02:13:19 PM) lapo left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(02:13:37 PM) kwwii: somerville32: we can certainly change the topic but I think having it locked is not a bad idea
(02:13:47 PM) kwwii: there are a couple of people who can change it
(02:14:18 PM) somerville32: -devel isn't even topic locked
(02:14:43 PM) kwwii: hrm, I guess I can ask around and get advice and then figure out how to do it
(02:15:01 PM) _MMA_: If anyone wants to look at example-look now can use bzr to do it. bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
(02:15:07 PM) kwwii: my /topic skills end at setting the topic :p
(02:15:20 PM) somerville32: kwwii, You might ask jdub to give you channel ownership
(02:15:21 PM) andreasn: :)
(02:15:25 PM) kwwii: :p
(02:15:39 PM) kwwii: since he is such a good friend
(02:15:39 PM) Who_: just occurred to me. Maybe at the start of the next meeting we can quickly equate our irc names to names on the list - it might help a bit :)
(02:15:48 PM) somerville32: kwwii, are you being sarcastic?
(02:15:53 PM) kwwii: Who_: yeah, i forgot to do that this time, sorry
(02:16:13 PM) ***kwwii ? sarcastic? never
(02:16:18 PM) somerville32: lol
(02:16:32 PM) ***somerville32 is so confused due to the lack of inherent bandwidth for sarcasm over a text medium
(02:16:58 PM) kwwii: [TOPIC] work in progress
(02:16:58 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  work in progress
(02:17:28 PM) kwwii: looking through the wiki these themes gave me a positive impression:
(02:18:10 PM) kwwii: BasicIdeals, Kerberos, SatinRibbon, SmoothMergedGradients, SzerencsefiaGTKIdea, Union, gelatin,
(02:18:59 PM) andreasn: gelatin is already implemented by some dude, and we should be able to package it without much difficulties
(02:19:05 PM) kwwii: and I kinda liked some of the line ideas in the Fela_Kuti wallpaper
(02:19:26 PM) kwwii: andreasn: killer, do you know who is working on that personally?
(02:19:52 PM) andreasn: well, vdepizzol did the mockup, can't remember the name of the dude who implemented it from the top of my head
(02:20:00 PM) andreasn: but I can look it up
(02:20:15 PM) thorwil: kwwii: i have all links open. shpuld i paste them?
(02:20:26 PM) Who_: Go for it....
(02:20:36 PM) kwwii: thorwil: hehe, I spent all the time cutting the names out of the links
(02:20:44 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals
(02:20:47 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Fela_Kuti
(02:20:51 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos
(02:20:54 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SmoothMergedGradients
(02:20:57 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SzerencsefiaGTKIdea
(02:21:00 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union
(02:21:04 PM) thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/gelatin
(02:21:13 PM) Kver: http://kims-area.com/?q=node/23 (Gelatin theme)
(02:21:13 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://kims-area.com/?q=node/23 (Gelatin theme)
(02:22:11 PM) Who_: do we have Murrine i Ubuntu?
(02:22:27 PM) kwwii: ]http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals
(02:22:27 PM) kwwii: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos
(02:22:27 PM) kwwii: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SatinRibbon
(02:22:27 PM) kwwii: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SmoothMergedGradients
(02:22:28 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos
(02:22:28 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SatinRibbon
(02:22:29 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SmoothMergedGradients
(02:22:30 PM) kwwii: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SzerencsefiaGTKIdea
(02:22:33 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SzerencsefiaGTKIdea
(02:22:36 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Yep.
(02:22:43 PM) kwwii: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union
(02:22:43 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union
(02:22:57 PM) kwwii: now they are properly in the bot thingy and minutes
(02:23:15 PM) thorwil: weird
(02:23:27 PM) Who_: _MMA_: How new? How up to date do the packages stay? (ie, how realistic is it to suggest argb for Hardy+1)
(02:23:41 PM) kwwii: the ideas that I really like are simplified window decoration (no line between windeco and menu) and simplified window buttons
(02:23:55 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Ubuntu Studio got it in for Feisty and have used it since.
(02:24:03 PM) kwwii: I dig the color brown and some of the transparency ideas as well
(02:24:21 PM) _MMA_: Cimi says a update should come from him soon but he was waiting on word from kwwii.
(02:24:27 PM) Kver: I think the smoothness of Szerencsefia is just plain beautiful, if we could implement it with offical colours and a clean GTK we culd have a winner
(02:24:27 PM) Who_: _MMA_: You maintain it?
(02:24:51 PM) kwwii: somehow I do get the feeling that a lot of them use too much saturation when making the window brown though
(02:24:56 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Someone on my team yes. Though others have touched it.
(02:25:05 PM) Who_: I find Szerencsefia too shinny for me
(02:25:09 PM) kwwii: Kver: yeah, that is a good idea to look in to
(02:25:28 PM) Who_: _MMA_: thanks. Not really sure why I asked P
(02:26:16 PM) bigon is now known as bigon`
(02:26:41 PM) Who_: hmmm. Union just hit me as 'the GTK Theme that likes fake tan' :P I really like it, but that thought made me chuckle. Perhaps it's a little bit too orange?
(02:26:57 PM) Kver: I'm a big fan of the "slab" window layout, where it looks like one big peice.
(02:27:00 PM) kwwii: Who_: after talking to macslow using alpha in the windows is not a big problem on the longer scale of things
(02:27:16 PM) kwwii: Kver: yeah, me too
(02:27:44 PM) Who_: kwwii: Awesome. If we can do it _tastefully_ then that seems good. On the whole though, I think that it might be something we have to wait for upstream apps to do to do tastefully....
(02:28:03 PM) kwwii: Who_: yeah, and keep the effect down to a minimum, I would guess
(02:28:04 PM) Who_: kver, kwwii: To slabs, me too.
(02:28:26 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: Something that kinda comes into play is the HP needed to do alphas and Compiz and whatever we come up with. Should that be kept in mind when creating?
(02:28:32 PM) Who_: kwwii: exactly - unless it is done on an App level it will be everywhere --> too much
(02:29:25 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: naturally we will still need a fallback for when it is not possible
(02:29:26 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: ie: pixmaps and svg icon themes can be slower but with newier machines this is less of a issue.
(02:29:36 PM) kwwii: another good reason to keep it as simple as possible
(02:30:04 PM) kwwii: crazy effects tend to just get in your way in the long run anyway
(02:30:14 PM) kwwii: you do not just want to look at the computer but also use it
(02:30:22 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: Sure, but how long do we cater to older machines? Kinda slows progress a bit.
(02:30:24 PM) ubotu has changed the topic to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Jan 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
(02:30:29 PM) kwwii: although I guess our goal is to get people to just stare at it :p
(02:30:32 PM) Kver: We should have 2 seperate versions of the themes almost, one designed specifically for low-end machenes, one for the bleeding edge almost...
(02:30:42 PM) kwwii: Kver: exactly
(02:30:52 PM) _MMA_: I dont agree.
(02:31:03 PM) Who_: I think a theme that did more if under a compoisited environment but looked very similar normally is ideal
(02:31:07 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: nothing we can do about that until we know that it is working pretty much everywhere
(02:31:18 PM) kwwii: Who_: I agree
(02:31:42 PM) Who_: I think also we _should_ be keeping simple - progress for progress sake is not progress
(02:31:47 PM) kwwii: 2 to 1, Cory loses :p
(02:32:01 PM) Kver: The only middle-gorund is one single GTK, one metacity and one emerald.
(02:32:14 PM) _MMA_: I dont agree with 2 themes I guess is more to the point. But how long do we do that really?
(02:32:25 PM) kwwii: _MMA_: only as long as we have to
(02:32:29 PM) Who_: but surely a theme engine that checked to see if it ran under a composited envirnment and did rounded corners if it was would be ideal?
(02:32:35 PM) Kver: Well, one theme could be either a atriped-down or a built-up version of the other.
(02:32:38 PM) kwwii: we would want to get away from that as soon as possible as it is much more work
(02:33:01 PM) Who_: (obviously, rounded corners is an example :P)
(02:33:09 PM) kwwii: I am guessing it would be a matter of phasing it out
(02:33:18 PM) kwwii: or limiting the updates more and more over time
(02:33:41 PM) Kver: I think square-corners in the GTK would be good. Rounded corners are great and all, but it's one of those "we know we can do it, now let's move on"
(02:33:45 PM) Who_: or just making one theme depend on Compiz or something - then if you don't install compiz you get the old theme, if you do you get the new one?
(02:33:57 PM) kwwii: Who_: yeah, something like that
(02:34:10 PM) Kver: I beleive Cimi said ppa themes would work normally under a non-composited enviornment.
(02:34:26 PM) Who_: Kver: I remember reading that too.
(02:34:51 PM) kwwii: if so, good :-)
(02:34:57 PM) Who_: kwwii: what kind of structure were you thinking of for the development of the Hardy +1 theme?
(02:34:59 PM) Kver: But for the sake of keeping things safe and bug-free, I'm temtped to say go with 2 GTK themes...
(02:34:59 PM) _MMA_: Who_: Compiz is installed and on by default now. I dont think your idea would work.
(02:35:39 PM) Who_: _MMA_: I think you might be right. Perhaps the application to enable compiz could write hit the theme gconf key?
(02:35:57 PM) ***_MMA_ just hopes someone tests all this new hotness we're talking about. :P
(02:36:03 PM) damianvila: kwwii: can you arrange a concept from what you like in those mockups and put it in the wiki as a reference? how feasible are those elements you like to be included in Ubuntu Hardy+1?
(02:36:11 PM) kwwii: Who_: I think that once the art direction is clear we start communicating with the theme teams about who to move forward and see what comes of that
(02:36:31 PM) kwwii: eventually we will have a couple of people working on parts of the default theme with direction
(02:36:47 PM) Kver: What about the effects window in all this? It has 4 options for the level of effects, would this be something to consider in the theme design?
(02:37:02 PM) Who_: kwwii: damianvila has a great point: can you make some kind of announcement of what is 'popular' with you and the Canonical guys?
(02:37:10 PM) Kver: Have 4 configurations of the theme based on level of effects?
(02:37:34 PM) _MMA_: kwwii: 1) When will it be clear? :) 2) Why would yo uneed to communicate with the theme teams? I thought the point was to work on themes independent of Ubuntu?
(02:37:56 PM) kwwii: damianvila: yes, I should go through the mockups and highlight parts and ideas
(02:37:59 PM) Who_: Kver: sounds kind of nice :) but a lot of work, potentially - as themes aren't as easily 'deblingable' as compiz is...
(02:38:33 PM) kwwii: I'll have a set of possiblities together any day now (based on one idea that I have been working on), I'll try to explain the desired tidbits there as well
(02:38:53 PM) Kver: Who_: It would mostly be a script that chooses from a small selection of pre-made peices.
(02:39:23 PM) Kver: Like "Light" effects might use a non-ppa GTK but the Emerald frame.
(02:39:28 PM) Who_: Kver: like sucking out bits of gtkrc to make a theme? Or swapping between some complete gtkrcs?
(02:39:30 PM) kwwii: the stuff that I am currently working on is a single window style using varying background colors and elements to show the possibilities of using color
(02:40:00 PM) Who_: kwwii: would you say it is fair to say that ultimately the default theme for Hardy will be designed by you based on submissions?
(02:40:02 PM) Kver: Who_: Just swapping between existing themes, not generating themes on the spot.
(02:40:26 PM) damianvila: kwwii: the palette is the one you sent to the list? (palette.pdf?)
(02:40:34 PM) Who_: Kver: yup. sounds doable. Would probably break when not using Ubuntu's theme?
(02:40:35 PM) kwwii: Who_: not necessarily just by myself but I will have to play a part in order to communicate ideas
(02:40:40 PM) kwwii: damianvila: yes
(02:40:46 PM) damianvila: kwwii: ok
(02:41:28 PM) kwwii: sooooo...if everyone thinks we have covered everything we can call and end to the meeting
(02:41:37 PM) Who_: kwwii: Cool, do you  think perhaps it would be good to make that more clear on the list? It seems to meever other day someone thinks their theme might be the default....
(02:41:57 PM) andreasn: sure, thanks for now
(02:42:04 PM) Who_:  yea, seems done for now
(02:42:04 PM) andreasn: next meeting in a month?
(02:42:07 PM) Kver: Who_: It could either warn the user, or just detect wether the user is using a custom theme.
(02:42:13 PM) kwwii: Who_: I send emails about that again and again (and it is in the wiki, etc) but yes, I could send it again
(02:42:30 PM) Who_: kwwii:  :)
(02:42:58 PM) kwwii: we should point everyone to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/FAQ when possible and get that complete
(02:43:01 PM) Kver: Well, depending on who I run into before I go, I just want to say good luck to everyone I don't see again. :D
(02:43:13 PM) Kver: well, for the next few months, at least.
(02:43:15 PM) kwwii: Kver: dude, thanks so much for the awesome work
(02:43:17 PM) Kver: :P
(02:43:29 PM) kwwii: you are welcome back even if your have no hair ;-)
(02:43:43 PM) ***_MMA_ salutes.
(02:43:59 PM) kwwii: Kver: if there is anything else you need or any way I can help, just drop me a note
(02:43:59 PM) Kver: Heh, thanks all!
(02:44:27 PM) Kver: Million dollars in unmarked bills, dropped off at...
(02:44:47 PM) Who_: Kver: nice work, thanks!
(02:44:50 PM) kwwii: nahhh, the government would wonder where you got it all at, it would be more trouble than good
(02:45:18 PM) Who_: kwwii: Make it 1/2 a million then. That seems well withtin government's tolerable corruption levels
(02:45:25 PM) Kver: Mwaha, time for a trip to Mexico!
(02:45:26 PM) kwwii: thanks everyone for taking part in the meeting, they keep getting better and better every time
(02:45:51 PM) kwwii: #endmeeting
(02:45:52 PM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 19:45.
(02:46:04 PM) kwwii: boah, 1 3/4 hours
(02:46:04 PM) Kver: Goodbye, MootBot!