• LeadershipCodeofConduct was approved - thanks Mako, Jono!

  • ForumsGovernance document was approved - thank you Ryan, Mako, jono and CC!

  • It was decided not to move off Freenode
  • Elections and confirmations for new CC members will happen in January
  • New position of CC Secretary, with Seveas as initial office bearer, approved



05:03   cjwatson        let the enormous agenda of death begin
05:03   cjwatson        oh, I guess we should wait for sabdfl and mako to /join
05:04   sabdfl  hey ho all you merry members
05:05   sabdfl  it's been a while
05:05   sabdfl  sorry about that - lots of travel for the whole team
05:05   sabdfl  but
05:05   sabdfl  also lots of productive community-related discussions at UDS mountain view
05:05   sabdfl  thanks to everyone who participated there
05:05   sabdfl  directly and via voip / gobby / wiki / irc
05:05   sabdfl  so
05:06   sabdfl  we have some excellent structural items up for comment and approval
05:06   sabdfl  we also want to set a timetable for the expansion of the CC
05:07   sabdfl  looking at the agenda, there's an item missing, which is the proposal of seveas as a CC Secretary, a new role
05:07   Seveaz  sabdfl: are there other CC members somewhere?
05:07   elmo    seveaz: colin and I are here
05:07   elmo    mako was around, he should be here shortly
05:07   Seveaz  elmo: merci and hi
05:07   sabdfl  mako was on a call with us a second ago
05:08   mako    greetings
05:08   sabdfl  ok, on to the agenda
05:09   sabdfl  Seveas, around?
05:10   Seveaz  sabdfl: I'm at work now so different nick
05:10   sabdfl  Seveaz: please add the secretary proposal to the end of the agenda
05:09   mako    unfortunately, i have not been able to go through all of my canonical mail from over the weekend so may not as up to date on every issue as i should be
05:09   mako    i should also mention that i will probably have to go in 1.5 or 2 hours, but am happy to catch up later this afternoon on anything i miss
05:09   mako    but we should try to handle things that have a lot of discussion before
05:10   jono    ok, so is the Leadership CoC first?
05:10   sabdfl  Leadership Code of Conduct
05:10   sabdfl  thanks to mako, jono and others for pulling this together
05:11   sabdfl  i think it's important, especially in the context of the various team councils that are being set up
05:11   mako    if they haven't already, people should read it
05:11   jono by the way
05:11   mako    if they see anything major missing, or something major that shouldn't be there that is, it would be good to know
05:12   mako    obviously, since i wrote it, i'm pretty happy with ti.
05:12   Belutz  do the LoCo leader have to sign this leadership CoC?
05:12   sabdfl  yes, LoCo team leaders, and other senior CC-appointed teams (and of course the CC ;-)) will be held to this standard
05:12   sabdfl  i've reviewed and made a few tweaks
05:12   mako    sabdfl: you're the only one :)
05:12   cjwatson        "conflicts of interest"> I think the emphasis is the wrong way round in the third sentence
05:12   cjwatson        should be that perceived conflicts of interest are as important as real ones?
05:12   sabdfl  cjwatson: good point
05:13   mako    cjwatson: yes
05:13   lophyte is that only for approved LoCo teams?
05:13   jono    lophyte: all leaders are expected to abide by it
05:13   jono    lophyte: and the approval process for loco teams will observe this
05:13   sabdfl  lophyte: for anyone that purports to take a leadership role in a LoCo team
05:13   sabdfl  in other words, if you are driving a team or claiming to, for part of ubuntu, then you should expect people to hold you to this standard
05:14   sabdfl  just like people in an IRC channel or forum or mailing list might say to someone, "dude, read the CoC, I think that's a bit out of line"
05:14   mako    it's seen as something like the code of conduct
05:14   mako    not a stick, but a high-level set of principles we except leaders to live up to
05:14   sabdfl  folks will likely remind leaders of this document if they are forgetting the guidelines
05:14   lophyte jono, sabdfl: excellent :)
05:14   mako    that's right
05:13   Belutz  jono: when is the deadline for the approved loco teams?
05:14   jono    Belutz: there is no deadline, but we expect loco leaders to abide by the Leadership CoC - this is why we are presenting it to the CC for approval
05:14   jono    Belutz: most leaders have the qualities in that document fairly innately
05:14   sabdfl  ok, so any additional comments on the document?
05:15   mruiz   jono: what is the difference between LoCo leader and LoCo contact? This CoC is only for leaders?
05:15   mako    mruiz: the lcoc is for anyone in a leadership position in ubuntu
05:15   jono    mruiz: if a team has a leader, or puts themself in a position of leadership, they should abide by the LCoC
05:16   theCore how new leaders will be nominated?
05:16   Seveaz  theCore: that's different per team
   05:15        sabdfl  can I ask CC members to +1 or -1 the document as it stands, pending possible typo or tweaks, no "editorial changes"?
05:16   cjwatson        sabdfl: I did some minor tweaks just now
05:16   MikeB-  the document is fine, one comment I have is if there is ever a CoC 2.0 made, the LCoC should be merge into it. Many of the ideas of the LCoC can be applied to ever Ubuntu community member
05:17   mako    MikeB-: fair enough
05:17   sabdfl  if you form a team, called, say "ubuntu-advocacy-it", and announce it, and want to be an organiser, then you should expect people to hold you to this standard even if you did this without any formal appointment by the CC
05:17   sabdfl  you are overtly taking a leadership role
05:17   sabdfl  and anyone participating in the ubuntu community, in its broadest sense, should know what they can expect from their leaders
05:17   ubuntugeek      hmm so does this mean that any (ubuntuforums) staff member should be bound to the lcoc as well? Or should only admins/fc be bound to this?
05:17   mako    right, the CoC doesn't just apply to people who have officially agreed it to or become ubunteros.. it sets the tone for the community
05:18   theCore sabdfl, ah, that makes more sense
05:18   theCore thanks
05:18   mako    likewise, this wouldn't only apply to people in officially delegated positions but anyone in a leadership position to the community
05:18   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: i think you will find that forums members hold moderators to this standard
05:18   sabdfl  same with irc participants and IRC ops
05:18   sabdfl  the nice thing is, there is still room for context-specific guidelines and processes
05:18   sabdfl  like the forums guys with their dispute resolution processes
05:19   sabdfl  and the mailing list etiquette guidelines
05:19   sabdfl  and IRC ops guidelines
05:19   sabdfl  this is a nice general statement of core values
05:19   MikeB-  ubuntugeek: I think the staff is viewed and acts as leaders
05:19   jono    indeed
05:19   mako    ubuntugeek: it's high level, people aren't often (ever?) punished for violating it. but it's a set of ideals that we agree to agree on
05:19   mako    like the CoC
05:19   markvandenborre I really like it
05:19   cjwatson        the thing I'd like people to take away from this is that holding a position of authority is a contract - you have certain privileges in exchange for certain responsibilities
05:18   PriceChild      ubuntugeek: sabdfl: What about moderators who are currently on leave? Surely things like the stepping down during extended absences can't apply.
05:19   sabdfl  PriceChild: interesting. in the case of moderation, you are not *blocking* decisions by not stepping down
05:20   sabdfl  i think it may be worth clarifying this
05:20   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl : +1
05:20   sabdfl  in other words, where a leadership position has a quorum impact on decisions, its important to step down
05:20   sabdfl  where it's just about having additional permissions, and others can take up the slack without you stepping down, then there's more flexibility
05:20   cjwatson        this is a sort of statement of the general kinds of responsibilities that people in authority tend to have
05:20   cjwatson        as part of general leadership decency
05:20   PriceChild      sabdfl: ubuntugeek: ok gotcha. Btw, I have no problem with the LCoC or CoC, to me they're just common courtesy.
05:20   mako    PriceChild: that's the idea
05:21   ubuntu_demon    I really like the LCoC and CoC
05:21   sabdfl  PriceChild: you'd be amazed how useful it is to document common courtesy, given the diversity in age, nationality, culture, language, background, etc in a community this big
05:21   cjwatson        sabdfl: "If an absence becomes extended, [and this absence will get in the way of other people's work,]  they should step down ..." ?
05:22   ubuntu_demon    cjwatson: I like that added part
05:22   PriceChild      sabdfl: It is very useful having a solid document to be able to refer "naughty" users to.
05:22   cjwatson        I wouldn't really want to use the term "naughty" of leaders :-)
05:22   PriceChild      That's a polite word for it anyway...
05:22   theCore "Leaders in Ubuntu can not and will not stay leaders only because they got there first."  How leaders will be changed?
05:22   jono    the LCoC not onl document courtesy but identifies core leadership values, that like sabdfl says, can be built upon inside each team
05:22   SD-Plissken     So what. you guys are saying that one can not give courtesy and respect with out following the CoC rules?
05:22   cjwatson        theCore: this isn't a statement of process
05:22   somerville32    What level of professionalism should volunteers in leadership positions (such as an IRC Operator or Team Leader) be expected to maintain?
05:23   ubuntugeek      "Leaders in Ubuntu can not and will not stay leaders only because they got there first"
05:23   ubuntugeek      sure they can..
05:23   ubuntugeek      why not
05:23   anto9us If I can interject something that might be missing from the lcoc doc, and that is that leaders often treat each other in ways that might be mis-perceived by some as inappropriate, like kicking each other from the IRC-channels for example, it's fun perhaps for the ops but open to interpretation as bullying or flexing of IRC muscle, to my mind, it's an example of setting a bad example
05:23   Seveaz  ubuntugeek: others may be more competent
05:23   Seveaz  or more available
05:23   Seveaz  or better smelling
05:23   Seveaz  or ....
05:23   ubuntugeek      huh
05:23   lophyte just because you got there first, doesn't mean you're a good leader
05:24   elmo    ubuntugeek: it doesn't mean to imply that if they're fine, and the only thing is that they were there first, that they have to be replaced
05:24   LoudMouthMan    lophyte: indeed.
05:24   cjwatson        ubuntugeek: depends on the leader. I'm stepping down from the CC because I think others who have got less worn-out will do a better job than I can.
05:24   cjwatson        ubuntugeek: but that doesn't mean I think the other CC members ought to do the same
05:24   ubuntugeek      Sure..
05:25   jono    anto9us: that is in some ways a separate issue - bullying is unacceptable, but there is no way we can develop policy and guidelines around "playful banter"
05:25   ubuntu_demon    in case of ubuntugeek it's in the ForumsGovernance document that he has a lifetime membership of the Forums Council as long as ubuntugeek (Ryan) follows the LCoC
05:25   cjwatson        ubuntugeek: I think the point is "*only* because" - if folks deserve to continue leading their community, there are certainly other "because"s
05:25   mako    ubuntugeek: the operative word is *only*
05:25   ubuntugeek      ud: ah, which i never really agreed to. the lcoc was added our calls
05:26   mako    ubuntugeek: if the *only* reason someone maintains a leadership position is because they got their first, that seems like a bit of a bum deal
05:26   sabdfl  ok, i've modded the doc to address the difference between blocking and non-blocking absences
05:26   sabdfl
05:26   PriceChild      Thanks sabdfl
05:26   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : the lcoc was mentioned during one of these conference calls about the forums. I'm sure you overheard. But it's not very important as long as you agree :)
05:26   mako    ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon: but this document wasn't written when we had the last call. that's why we're talking about it now
05:26   ubuntu_demon    mako : yeah
05:27   MikeB-  as I see it, the LCoC is a guideline, a document to give us direction, and should never be use as a stick to weild over people
05:27   mako    ubuntugeek couldn't have been expected to agree in advance to an unwritten document :)
05:27   ubuntu_demon    mako : true. although it's a nice document :)
05:27   mako    ubuntu_demon: i agree :)
05:27   ubuntugeek      hah
05:27   ubuntugeek      wow ego's
05:27   ubuntu_demon    :-p
05:28   mako    ubuntugeek: ;)
05:28   ubuntugeek      not amused..
05:28   MikeB-  all cases will have to be bought to the CC, FC , or whatever counsil
05:28   cjwatson        one problem we have had in the past, in Debian or Ubuntu or whatever, is team leaders wandering off and everyone else being stuck unable to get anything done
05:28   cjwatson        it's a pretty real problem
05:28   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: satisfied with the language?
05:28   popey   indeed, LUGs have the same problem
05:28   ubuntugeek      sure ok, lets move on then.. we can address the lcoc i am bound to when we talk about the governance
05:28   kalon33 sure popey
05:29   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : IMHO it's important that you address it now if you have any issues with it. Then it can be improved.
05:30   sabdfl  this is not a legal document
05:30   sabdfl  it will be difficult to "bind" anyone to it
05:30   anto9us jono, yes, I make a specific point as an example and yes I agree it's a separate issue, though I wouldn't wish for a policy around that specifically so much as awareness of potential issues that might arise from the playful banter, to some seeing someone being kicked strikes up a fight or flight response
05:30   ubuntugeek      thats fine.. nothing further from me
05:30   sabdfl  most of what happens in the ubuntu community is based on goodwill and good faith
05:30   cjwatson        it's more important to say what we expect so that people know what they're "signing up for" when they take on leadership positions
05:30   effie_jayx      sabdfl,  there is still moral respnsibility
05:30   sabdfl  i think it will be clear the circumstances under which someone is not really following this LCoC
05:30   cjwatson        if you've not been in a leadership kind of position before, sometimes it's not all obvious
05:30   SD-Plissken     How is it not a legal doc. your asking folks to abide by it,and conform the rules in it sabdfl
05:31   jono    anto9us: sure, and I think this is something we can discuss and develop as a separate case
05:31   sabdfl  i don't think it will ever turn into a legalistic, clause-by-clause thing
05:31   mako    right, introducing something like this retroactively is a bit tricky, so it's important to get consensus or identify issues now among people who are currently in leadership positions
05:31   mako    right, i think it's more like the CoC
05:31   cjwatson        SD-Plissken: it's not "you're violating clause 3, subsection 7. bzzt" - it's an informal statement of values
05:31   mako    people invoke it frequently enough, but rarely "apply" it
05:31   cjwatson        er clause <-> subsection but you know what I mean :-)
05:31   ubuntu_demon    mako : +1. IMHO it's important that all big community leaders give their input on the document right now .. before it's getting approved
05:32   sabdfl  to be specific, i would not ask ubuntugeek to step down form the forums council because of a single incident or issue, which is i think what was worrying ubuntugeek, given the context of our UDS forums discussions
05:32   ubuntugeek      sabdfl: correct
05:32   sabdfl  i am happy with ubuntugeek's life-long position on the FC, it's an unusual concession but i think it's well deserved
05:33   sabdfl  making it subject to the LCoC is really only a convenient way of saying "stay engaged and stay constructive"
05:33   jono    I agree with sabdfl that it would be pretty clear if someone was not acting within the spirit of the LCoC
05:33   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl: +1 IMHO ubuntugeek deserves to be a lifelong member of the FC
05:33   SD-Plissken     cjwatson I don't by that. the simple fact is if you dont abide by it your brought up for repremand or asked to remove yourself. rules are writen to be inforced. I highly doubt these where written in hohum fashion.
05:34   cjwatson        SD-Plissken: guidelines, not rules
05:35   SD-Plissken     Fine guidelines. and the fact still stand if you don't follow the guideline theres reprocutions.
05:33   sabdfl  i would not invoke the LCoC unless there was BROAD consensus that that was not the case
05:33   sabdfl  like, someone doesn't show up to meetings for months
05:33   sabdfl  i have to be a bit careful here myself ;-)
05:33   mako    sabdfl: that's right
05:33   jono    indeed
05:33   mako    sabdfl: the whole thing, not just that you need to be careful.. ALTHOUGH YOU DO
05:34   sabdfl  ok, so, can i ask CC members to +1 or -1 the document as it stands?
05:34   sabdfl  we're 30 minutes in and have a lot of ground to cover
05:34   mako    i'll abstain since i had a such a large role in drafting it
05:34   sabdfl  mako: please don't!
05:34   cjwatson        rules are written to be enforced, but guidelines are written so that people know where they stand
05:34   jono    I think you should vote mako
05:34   mako    fine, +1 from me
05:34   jono    mako: you would not write it if you disagreed with it
05:35   mako    jono: right, that's why i wouldn't vote against it :)
05:35   cjwatson        sabdfl: +1, we've already gone over the bits I thought were wonky and changed them
05:35   elmo    +1
05:35   jono    mako: woo!
05:35   sabdfl  +1 form me too
05:35   sabdfl  super, thanks mako, jono, CC
05:35   cjwatson        sabdfl: oh, perhaps we should make it even more clear that they're not meant for rigid enforcement
05:35   cjwatson        it does say so at the top, but it could be clearer to stave off paranoia
05:35   sabdfl  DONE
05:35   jono    :)
05:36   sabdfl  it does say "a set of guidelines"
05:36   mako    alright lets move on
05:36   mako    my time here is limited
05:36   sabdfl  so let's leave it as it stands, we can clarify it if someone cites the LCoC in a lawsuit :-)
05:36   cjwatson        SD-Plissken: I'd expect that in general if people were acting out of character for how we'd like leaders to behave, we'd talk to them first, not treat them like naughty children

05:36   mako    the forums governance document is next
05:37   sabdfl  i'll come out up front and say i'm opposed
05:37   sabdfl  (sorry, mako, want to address IRC issue)
05:37   sabdfl  i understand there are some issues
05:37   mako    oh, ok
05:38   sabdfl  but i don't think the folks proposing the move have come up with very strong arguments
05:38   sabdfl  freenode appears to be doing OK despite the loss of lilo
05:38   sabdfl  the #canonical issue was never, in my mind, a forcing function for an ubuntu community decision, and its resolved now in any event
05:38   cjwatson        the original GetOffFreenodeSpec was prompted by concerns about #canonical - that's since been moved to a private server so seems moot
05:39   sabdfl  ok, so does anyone on the CC want to take up the case for moving?
05:39   cjwatson        sabdfl: no, I was sort of +0 anyway and am uninterested now
05:39   sabdfl  ok, can we vote briefly?
05:39   sabdfl  -1
05:40   sabdfl  i would rather we vote, take a decision, than just defer it indefinitely
05:40   cjwatson        -0, seems like lots of work for little gain now
05:40   elmo    -0
05:40   sabdfl  mako?
05:41   mako    sabdfl: i'm not going to rock the boat
05:41   sabdfl  mako: +1, -1, 0?
05:41   mako    0
05:41   sabdfl  ok
05:41   sabdfl  guess i have to take the bullet ;-)
05:41   sabdfl  CC decides to decline the proposal, we can of course discuss this again in future if the situation changes
=== gnomefreak never seena tie before
05:42   cjwatson        gnomefreak: that wasn't a tie, it was -1/4
05:42   mako    i'm sympathetic for arguements from both side, but don't see a mandate for moving from the community
05:42   apokryphos      I think it would've been useful to get input from people on the IRC ops council on this issue too

05:42   sabdfl  Seveas: what's next?
05:42   Seveaz  sabdfl: forums guidelines
05:42   sabdfl  ok, we had extensive and ultimately very positive, constructive discussions on this during mountain view
05:43   sabdfl  i think everyone in the CC wants to give the Forums full recognition and integration in the the ubuntu community
05:43   sabdfl  so thanks to those who devoted a lot of time to the discussions
05:43   jono    the document is at
05:43   ubuntugeek      I have no issues at this time with the FG.. we discussed it in detail at the mds
05:44   sabdfl  one thing that i think is worth pointing out is that a lot of this thinking has been generalised to other teams too
05:44   mako    yeah, i'm excited that it looks like we're finally ready to move forward with this.. it's way, way past time that the forums be given full recognition for the central role they've played
05:44   sabdfl  so this effort pays off not just for Forums but for other growing parts of the community
05:44   sabdfl  like the MOTU
05:44   sabdfl  these guidelines, structures etc will get duplicated and re-used
05:44   ubuntu_demon    Maybe we should ask if there are people who have big issues with the document ?
05:44   sabdfl  so a worthwhile investment of time and thinking from ubuntugeek, jono, mako, ubuntu_demon, MikeB-, CC and many others
05:45   sabdfl  can we take out the "This a draft. Everything here is completely open for discussion and reevaluation."
05:45   mako    the only procedural clarification i'd like to make now (which i think is clear in the document), is that council, when initially created, won't immediately be able to create ubuntu members
05:45   mako    sabdfl: i'd love to
05:46   sabdfl  ok, i'm going to chop off the top and bottom which are focused on the discussion, so what we have left is the RESULT and the document for approval by the CC
05:46   mako    sabdfl: i just chopped off the top
05:46   ubuntu_demon    mako : the CC will guide the FC in the process of creating ubuntu members right ? So maybe current forum staff on the CC agenda can be the first to go through this new process
05:47   ubuntugeek      ud: I think we were going to get to the election of ubuntu members down the road at some point
05:47   jono    so are there any aspects that anyone wishes to discuss about the document?
05:48   mako    ubuntu_demon, ubuntugeek: that's right, soon, we just need to see a few of the FC members here as we  go through the process so we're sure everyone is on the same page in terms of qualifications for membership
05:48   mako    ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon: we've done that with all of the councils as well
05:49   ubuntugeek      none here.. I would like to note per our conversations at mds.. the FC would be formed initially of myself, john and mike with the nominations of two others to sit on the fc with us.. i dont see that on the document
05:49   ubuntu_demon    mako : yeah great . There are a few forum staff who want to become Ubuntu Members. There's at least one on the current CC agenda (I haven't had time to take a good look at it)
05:49   jono    ubuntugeek: which Mike?
05:49   ubuntugeek      kiwinz braniff
05:49   jono    right
05:49   PriceChild      ubuntu_demon: I'm one :)
05:50   SD-Plissken     ubuntugeek now theres the question who will pick the other two parties to sit with you?
05:50   ubuntu_demon    kiwinz and john (jdong) are both forum admins
05:50   sabdfl  ok, i've taken out all the "discussion" stuff
05:50   sabdfl  so the doc represents a clear proposal
05:50   sabdfl
05:50   ubuntugeek      sd-.. the admins have already discussed and chosen..
05:50   mako    ubuntugeek: right, we need the full list so we can approve it
05:51   ubuntu_demon    SD-Plissken: IMHO Ryan can start with 3 admins as FC or 3 admins + 2 others (chosen by Ryan as well)
05:51   sabdfl  to be clear, the nominations should come from the CC, not just approval of forums admins decisions
05:51   ubuntugeek      mako: full list of what?
05:51   sabdfl  the process is laid out in the FG doc
05:51   mako    ubuntugeek: candidates, namely the two others
05:51   mako    ubuntugeek: sorry, forum *council* members
05:51   ubuntugeek      i was under the impression to initialize this process we were going to select
05:52   sabdfl  the initial FC is 3 members (ryan troy, mike braniff, john dong)
05:52   sabdfl  we need to expand that to 5
05:52   ubuntugeek      Right
05:52   sabdfl  process is cc appointment in consultation with [list of stakeholders]
05:53   sabdfl  i'd like to get to 5 quick, and think it's reasonable for the FC (of 3) to put up some names
05:53   sabdfl  if the CC is happy, we can JDI
05:53   ubuntugeek      Thats fine
05:54   ubuntu_demon    what does JD stand for ?
05:54   sabdfl  Just Do It
05:54   ubuntu_demon    okay thanks :)
05:54   ubuntugeek      mikeb and matthew are our two selections.
05:54   sabdfl  intro to matthew? i think the CC has met MikeB in Moutnain View
05:54   mako    sabdfl: so, to clarify, is the idea to vote on this now with the initial list of three
05:54   cjwatson        mikeb as in Basinger?
05:54   cjwatson        which matthew?
05:54   ubuntugeek      cjwatson: correct
05:54   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : Do mikeb and matthew know you have nominated them ?
05:55   sabdfl  mako: if we have 2 good candidates, i think we all win with a fast decision on the expansion as well as the FG docs
05:55   sabdfl  ubuntu_demon: heh, good point
=== mako nods
05:55   sabdfl  they do, of course, have to want the position :-)
05:55   ubuntu_demon    matthew and mikeb are two fine forum moderaters who have been active in the staff for quite some time
05:55   ubuntugeek
05:55   mako    well, MikeB- knows now :)
05:55   PriceChild      +1 on that ubuntu_demon
05:55   ubuntugeek      ud: yes they know
05:55   MikeB-  ubuntugeek asked me a couple of weeks ago, I would be honored
05:56   jenda   I'd second that too, ubuntu_demon.
05:56   ubuntugeek      and both accepted
05:56   sabdfl  has this been publicly discussed by forums staff?
05:56   sabdfl  since we're approving the FG doc, it seems sane to make sure it's followed :-)
05:56   ubuntugeek      matthew is a fine moderator who has take the intuitive to excel his role on the forums.
05:57   sabdfl  but, has it been publicly discussed with forums staff?
05:57   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl: AFAIK it's not been publicly discussed with forums staff (it's new to me but I've been quite busy lately with school)
05:57   sabdfl  are both candidates ubuntu members?
05:58   ubuntugeek      no clue
05:58   jenda   MikeB-: is candidating now
05:58   MikeB-  sabdfl: appliying today
05:58   sabdfl  (it would be a trivial +1 given their contributions to the forum, clearly)
05:58   MikeB-  :), Vote Mike!
05:58   ubuntu_demon    is matthew here now ?
05:58   ubuntugeek      i dont think he could make it
05:58   sabdfl  ok, CC, how do you feel about dealing with MikeB now, and asking for more on matthew?
05:58   jenda   matthew is an ubuntu member
05:58   sabdfl  the doc says
05:58   jenda
05:58   sabdfl  - ubuntu member
05:58   sabdfl  - public wiki page
05:58   elmo    trivial +1 on MikeB-
05:59   cjwatson        ditto elmo
05:59   MikeB-
05:59   mako    sabdfl: we've seen matthelmkde before,
05:59   sabdfl  - opinions from forums staff, admins (we have that)
05:59   cjwatson        matthew is already in ubuntumembers, good
05:59   ubuntu_demon    +1 for MikeB
05:59   jenda   mako: careful, mdke = Matthew East
05:59   sabdfl  yeah, all i'm looking for is a bit more public process within the Forums on matthew's nomination to FC
06:00   cjwatson        MikeB-: could you stick a link to your launchpad page on your wiki page? thanks
06:00   mako    jenda: while tricky, i think i can keep my matthe's straight ;)
06:00   sabdfl  mako: we've hired a BUNCH more at Canonical :-)
06:00   SD-Plissken     sabdfl matthew and mike are both good to go,and standup guys.
06:00   sabdfl  not all of whom, i think, are straight
06:00   jenda   hehe :)
06:00   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl: the best way to get more forums input is discussing it in our private staff forum. Personally I support these two candidates (I didn't know about them being nominated)
06:00   ubuntugeek      sd-plissken is a moderator
06:01   ubuntugeek      you have enough feedback here to proceed
06:01   PriceChild      For what its worth I'll back both of them also - moderator
06:01   mako    i'm thrilled with MikeB- for membership
06:01   sabdfl  ok, let's vote on MikeB for ubuntu membership, then for FC membership, and ask ubuntugeek to coordinate more public discussion on matthew amongst forums staff
06:01   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : that's true as well. How many forum staff are here now ?
06:01   mako    the documentation only confirms that i thought before
06:01   ubuntugeek      mako: ?
06:01   cjwatson        I think we've already voted on MikeB for membership. :)
06:02   sabdfl  so we have mako +1 on mikeb, and i will +1 too
06:02   cjwatson        16:58 < elmo> trivial +1 on MikeB-
06:02   cjwatson        16:59 < cjwatson> ditto elmo
06:02   sabdfl  ok, and cjwatson too, so well done mikeb
06:02   mako    ubuntugeek: documentation on his wiki page, etc
06:02   mako    ubuntugeek: lots of contributions, activity on the forums, etc
06:02   MikeB-  my thanks to you all
06:02   sabdfl  welcome
06:02   ogra    MikeB-, congrats and welcome
06:02   jono    congratulations MikeB-
06:02   ubuntu_demon    congratiolations MikeB ! :)
06:02   sabdfl  +1 from me also for MikeB on the FC
06:02   PriceChild      well done MikeB-
06:02   cjwatson        MikeB-: (will need a launchpad account name to put that into effect)
06:03   mako    right, i'm happy with both both MikeB- and matthew (for tha matter) on the FC
06:03   ubuntu_demon    mako : me too
06:03   elmo    what mako said
06:03   sabdfl  ok, +1 from mako on both MikeB and matthew
06:03   ubuntu_demon    (although I'm not a CC member :))
06:04   sabdfl  i'd like more evidence of open forums discussion on matthew, but if the rest of the CC +1's him i'll roll with it
06:04   ubuntugeek      us three admins discussed it.. thats good enough, the fg isnt even in place yet.
06:04   ubuntugeek      if it was we would have taken another direction
06:05   sabdfl  ok, let's vote on the FG doc
06:05   sabdfl  +1 from me on that
06:05   cjwatson        I'm ok with MikeB and matthew, since the forums staff are happy
06:05   elmo    +1 from me on FG
06:05   ubuntu_demon    Great!
06:06   mako    +1 from me as well
06:06   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : well chosen on matthew and mikeB
06:06   mako    lets edit that document to include a list of FC members
06:06   ubuntugeek      We will introduce the fc changes on the forums within the next week.
06:07   mako    ubuntugeek: sounds good
06:08   ubuntu_demon    So the FG did pass right ?
06:08   sabdfl  cjwatson: vote on the FG doc?
06:08   mako    ubuntu_demon: it's about to
06:09   sabdfl  no pressure :-)
06:09   ubuntu_demon    I see ... cjwatson's vote is still missing :)
06:09   cjwatson        no issues with the FG document, pending approval of the initial FC members
06:09   sabdfl  aren't they separate issues?
06:09   sabdfl  one is process, the other is candidates?
06:09   cjwatson        sabdfl: erm, yeah, seems like it
06:10   cjwatson        so no issues from me
06:10   sabdfl  thumbs up or down?
06:10   cjwatson        up
06:10   ubuntugeek      ok so we good on the fc+fg stuff?
06:10   sabdfl  brilliant
06:10   jono    fantastic
06:10   sabdfl  OK, so CC approves the FG document, with much thanks to those who helped write it
06:10   ubuntu_demon    Great!
06:10   kalon33 cool !
06:11   MikeB-  woot!
06:11   cjwatson        open discussion on matthew wouldn't hurt, thinking about it - maybe make that one pending? shouldn't take long
06:11   sabdfl  we have a full house of +1's on MikeB
06:11   ubuntugeek      +1 matthew
06:11   ubuntugeek      or we cant move forward
06:11   sabdfl  so MikeB is on the FG, and i think it's worth asking ubuntugeek to host a discussion on matthew as the next candidate
06:11   sabdfl  in the forums
06:11   mako    we should also thanks ubuntugeek for bearing through this process.. and for all of his other work making the forums so great :)
06:11   PriceChild      sabdfl: public or staff discussion?
06:11   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: yes we can, FG doc is approved, you have a council of 4 including yourself, and you have a casting vote
06:12   PriceChild      thanks ubuntugeek :)
06:12   cjwatson        ubuntugeek: it doesn't seem like a blocker to start with 4 briefly?
06:12   sabdfl  both, if needed, so public should be fine unless stuff gets tricky
06:12   ubuntugeek      Like i said
06:12   ubuntugeek      if we cant vote the people in
06:12   ubuntugeek      we cant move forward
06:12   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: you have a council, it's not at 5 people, but the FG doc calls for comment from a long list of folks and there is no thread on the forums to suggest that's happened
06:13   ubuntugeek      blah
06:13   ubuntu_demon    I trust matthew to do a good job.
06:13   ubuntugeek      Then we shall not move forward
06:13   jenda   What's the matter with matthew?
06:13   sabdfl  i have no doubt matthew will get the nod in the next round, but i also think we owe it to the forums users and staff to have a place they can comment on candidates
06:13   PriceChild      But surely now the 4 members are appointed... they can appoint the 5th immediately?
06:13   jenda   I think he has unanimous support among us, the forum staff?
06:13   ubuntugeek      OK, i am going to make this clear
06:13   sabdfl  PriceChild: no, the FG does not appoint its own members
06:13   sabdfl  sorry, FC
06:13   ubuntugeek      we are not moving forward at this time
06:13   PriceChild      sabdfl: sorry misunderstanding
06:15   sabdfl  well, ok, i think we have made good progress
06:15   sabdfl  the FG document is approved by the CC
06:15   sabdfl  and we have a Forums Council of 4 members
06:15   ubuntugeek      no we dont
06:15   sabdfl  that's a good start
06:15   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: in what sense do we not?
06:15   ubuntugeek      Because we are not moving forward
06:16   cjwatson        could you please rephrase that without using the words "moving forward"? I'm having trouble working out what you mean
06:16   jono    ubuntugeek: what is your objection?
06:16   ubuntugeek      During our calls, it was implied that the initial two people who be chosen by the current admins.. we did this..
06:17   sabdfl  not as i recall it, anyone else who was there care to weigh in?
06:17   MikeB-  ubuntugeek: i think it is fine to get open discussion for both me and matthew on to the FC. I'm willing to delay my nod to the FC till next month so the community can have its say
06:17   sabdfl  the doc explicitly names 3 initial members
06:17   sabdfl  and explicitly gives a list of folks to be consulted on new appointments
06:18   sabdfl  and explicitly says we want to get to 5 quickly
06:18   ubuntugeek      ok if the three admins and the various mod's here backing people are not good enough then i am done here
06:18   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: of course they are good enough, their voice counts
06:18   jono    ubuntugeek: hang on a sec, lets ensure we are all clear on what we interpreted
06:18   ubuntugeek      then finalize it and we can move on..
06:18   sabdfl  but the Forums Governance doc does not ask for "seconds from some admins or staff members"
06:19   sabdfl  it says the CC will not appoint folks without consulting the staff and members
06:19   sabdfl  mikeb had very widespread forums community support as a representative during these discussions
06:19   sabdfl  which is why i think the CC is happy to say that the forums staff and members have really been consulted
06:19   sabdfl  but matthew was not really part of that process
06:20   sabdfl  i think forums members will be very happy to have a thread on this nomination, and i've no doubt it will reflect well on matthew
06:20   sabdfl  given everything that's been said
06:20   sabdfl  but i don't think the CC would be meeting its obligations under the FG doc, if we just +1 matthew
06:21   sabdfl  without any evidence of a broad consultation of the forums members and staff
06:20   ubuntugeek      i figured this would be like this.. thats why i was hesitant to even move forward..
06:20   jenda   Someone will have to resort to compromise here. I believe we should leave matthew as pending, as he is 1) not here to tell us he wants to do it 2) hasn't been discussed by the forum staff, although all of us present agree with him taking the spot.
06:21   mako    i don't really have strong feelings either way on this
06:21   PriceChild      +1 jenda
06:21   ubuntu_demon    +1 jenda
06:21   MikeB-  +1 jenda
06:22   ubuntu_demon    there are some forum staff right here to support matthew though.
06:22   sabdfl  "some staff" is not the same as "open consultation"
06:22   jenda   sabdfl: +1
06:22   sabdfl  right, and certainly not the same as "consulting forums members"
06:22   sabdfl  i think it's obvious that a thread on the forums is the right way to get that open consultation
06:23   sabdfl  which is why i'm suggesting ubuntugeek lead that
06:23   sabdfl  and come back for a +1 on matthew once that's done
06:23   zarul   I think you should make a decision here, it seems that we are dragging this issue to no ends...
06:23   ubuntu_demon    then maybe we can do a staff poll and have a new CC meeting quickly (like next week) to get him on the FC and move on ?
06:23   jenda   matthew has not been publically discussed, and I don't see a problem with waiting till next time, till matthew can make it, or till we have at least given a chance to other forum staff to have a say.
06:23   mako    the agreement as i understood it was that the the admins/ubuntugeek would pick the extra two members.. but i think a consultation by the focums community/staff would probably be a good thing in either case.. since it seems that anything other than a confirmation is unlikely, i don't see any issue with doing it for matthew or even matthew and MikeB-
06:23   sabdfl  matthew is NOT EVEN HERE
06:23   ubuntugeek      BECAUSE HE COULDNT BE
06:23   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: well, let's find a time that suits him
06:23   jono    ok, lets calm down
06:24   sabdfl  sorry
06:23   mako    right, i think matthew should at least show up to a CC meeting
06:23   mako    and he probably wouldn't mind seeing a thread about how everything thinks he's great :)
06:25   ubuntu_demon    IMHO let's arrange a CC meeting with matthew attending asap (like next week or something).
06:25   jenda   (there should be a meeting soon anyway, because a lot will be left over from this one so:)
06:25   jenda   ubuntu_demon: +1
06:27   jono    ok, lets clarify the position where we are now
06:27   jono    ubuntugeek: still there?
06:28   ubuntugeek      yes
06:28   jono    excellent :)
06:28   jono    ubuntugeek: what is core your objection at this point?
06:28   jono    just to be 100% clear
06:28   ubuntugeek      that my fears about this process have shown to be true regarding how this process is going to work.
06:28   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: from what I have seen the CC has no objection to matthew as a candidate
06:29   sabdfl  but there is some concern that the process needs to be followed
06:29   sabdfl  the process is pretty clear in the FG doc we just approved
06:29   ubuntugeek      there (was) no process before this
06:29   sabdfl  that's all
06:29   ubuntugeek      this is clean/new document
06:29   ubuntugeek      a start..
06:29   sabdfl  i have no doubt the CC would +1 matthew after a thread on the forums discussing his candidacy
06:29   jono    ubuntugeek: lets give the process a chance - and the agreement which you seem broadly happy with is there to secure a good, honest, consistent process
06:29   sabdfl  i assume no major controvery emerging in that thread, given the unilateral support
06:30   sabdfl  but it's important to show that we want the FG doc to mean something
06:30   cjwatson        ubuntugeek: I'm not clear on what your fears are; I don't see anything going particularly wrong ...
06:30   jono    much of this is just due process ubuntugeek
06:30   sabdfl  i would have called for discussion on MikeB too, except I think we all feel that has already happened, in effect
06:30   MikeB-  sabdfl: I'm willing to wait a month to allow discussion
06:30   jono    many of us got to know MikeB- and his excellent contributions at the UDS
06:31   jono    I am sure if we knew Matthew as well, everyone would approach this the same
06:31   sabdfl  and the MikeB- was really mandated by the forums community as a representative already
06:31   jono    ubuntugeek: see what I mean?
06:31   MikeB-  it is only fair if Matthew and I get the same treatment
06:31   mako    ubuntugeek: if you think it's more fair, we might ask for comments on both.. i tend to think it would be
=== mako nods to MikeB-
06:32   cjwatson        it seems a bit artificial, we're obviously all happy with MikeB
06:32   cjwatson        but shrug
06:32   jono    MikeB-: I think you are getting the same treatment, its just that the CC are not as familiar with Matthew (yet)
06:32   mako    cjwatson: fwiw, i'm also happy with matthew
06:33   cjwatson        I think the current action is for a thread to be opened on the forums about matthew
06:33   ubuntu_demon    any input from ubuntugeek ?
06:33   ubuntugeek      nothing further we wont move forward until this is resolved
06:33   ubuntu_demon    ubuntugeek : so we can move forward after Matthew is approved at the next CC meeting ?
06:34   jono    ubuntugeek: how would you like to see it resolved
06:34   ubuntugeek      ubuntu_demon: no it needs to be done this meeting.. there are enough people here to back matthew.. i
06:35   ubuntugeek      the process in which you elect is flawed..
06:35   ubuntu_demon    Maybe we can focus on forumsgovernance first ? I would hate to see it break apart while we have made this much good progress.
06:35   ubuntugeek      if you cant agree on matthew today then dont agree on mikeb
06:36   sabdfl  i'd like to ask the CC if they think (a) the position is the CC should follow the FG doc in appointing the 2 new FC members, or if (b) the 3 forums admins should be appointing them
06:36   sabdfl  for me it is clearly (a)
06:37   cjwatson        well, I do sort of wonder why the FG doc exists if it isn't true :-)
06:38   ubuntugeek      Like I said, when i walked away from our conversations at mds .. the other two people were going to be selected by the curent admins
06:38   MacSlow sabdfl, this whole stuff here is so intense... a bit frightening... but most impressive nevertheless.
06:38   mako    but if it comes to a vote on approval of matthew, i would be happy to have him now
06:38   ubuntugeek      to form the initial fc team.
06:38   sabdfl  mako: (a) or (b)?
06:39   elmo    I think (a) makes the most sense, simply because this is going to be the FC for the next year or so
06:39   mako    cjwatson: for the initial bootstrap phase, that is right now, i think (b) would be appropriate and in line with our previous discussions
06:39   cjwatson        FWIW I've no objection to generally following the forums admins' recommendations, but I'd like a chance to actually evaluate rather than just rubber-stamp, that's all
06:40   mako    but i'm not opposed to (a) either don't really see why anybody would be
06:40   sabdfl  ok, so 3 for (a) and 1 for (b)
06:40   cjwatson        I can only be +0 on matthew simply because I've never talked to him
06:40   mako    it will only make the position of those people more justified in the eyes of their constituency
06:40   ubuntugeek      ok i am done here
06:40   sabdfl  and matthew is not here now
06:40   ubuntugeek      good day
06:40   cjwatson        I don't *object*, just it's impossible to say an outright yes
06:40   MikeB-  ryan , please wait
06:40   sabdfl  ok, i will start the thread on the forums, to give the staff and users an opportunity to discuss matthew
06:40   jenda   That doesn't help the forums, does it :/
06:41   ubuntu_demon    Can we please schedule a new CC meeting very soon to handle this FG ?
06:41   sabdfl  ubuntu_demon: yes
06:42   ubuntugeek      clearly what we discussed on the phone about this and how its playing out here is two different things
06:42   cjwatson        surely worst case the practical effect is that it takes two weeks longer to get the FC going? I really don't see the big deal
06:44   mc44    ubuntugeek: if athread is opened on matthew and there is a concensus then the CC approves him to the FC, would you be happy to move forward
06:44   elmo    ubuntugeek: FWIW, I couldn't confidently claim that (a) is what was agreed to on the phone, it's possible it _was_ (b), but would you not be willing to consider (a) and the (IMO) advantages it has?
06:45   sabdfl  which forum would be the appropriate one for me to start those threads?
06:46   sabdfl  i think (a) vs (b) was never explicitly discussed, i assumed it was clearly (a), ubuntugeek obviously assumed differently
06:46   sabdfl  nonetheless, the CC voted for following the FG document process
06:46   ubuntugeek      elmo: sure the issue i have is if you can't back both right now don't back either
06:47   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: that's fine, i think MikeB has said he's open to that
06:47   sabdfl  so i will open two threads
06:47   elmo    ubuntugeek: sure, that's perfectly reasonable, happy to do that
06:47   ubuntugeek      now i still strongly object to to the way its handled
06:47   elmo    ubuntugeek: in what way?
06:48   ubuntugeek      if you cant trust us to form an initial team then clearly down the road we will have the same issues
06:48   elmo    ubuntugeek: we can and do trust you, we've all provisionally +1'ed on both mike and matthew.  the issue is that we'd like the forums community to have a chance to participate
06:49   elmo    ubuntugeek: this after all is going to be their forums council for a year, it seems fair to given them a chance to have some input, don't you think?
06:48   sabdfl  it's Mike Basinger and Matthew ?
06:48   MikeB-  sabdfl and ubuntugeek: I'm fine with that
06:48   sabdfl  and forums nicks for both?
06:48   ubuntugeek      matthew
06:48   ubuntugeek      mike
06:52   sabdfl
06:54   sabdfl
06:48   gnomefreak      sabdfl: can we set a meeting for either later this week sometime next week to finish the forums item. since the threads will be open it should be a fast vote?
06:49   jono    ubuntugeek: do you feel the forums community will be happy with mikeb and matthew on the FC
06:50   ubuntugeek      jono: yep i do
06:51   jono    ubuntugeek: if so, why not just let the due process happen if the community would be happen with them?
06:51   ubuntugeek      jono: thats fine do as you wish
06:52   jono    ubuntugeek: ok, so you are happy for us to continue?
06:53   ubuntugeek      jono: sure i dont really have a choice
06:53   ubuntugeek      jono: you guys got me by the balls this time around..
06:54   jono    ubuntugeek: you *do* have a choice - this is not about forcing something out of you - it is about asking if you are happy with due process
06:54   jono    ubuntugeek: if you are happy with that, we can move forward
06:54   ubuntugeek      jono: thats fine.. so to recap.. FG is approved and the FC +3 admins is approved..
06:54   ubuntugeek      correct?
06:55   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: yes
06:55   ubuntugeek      ok
06:55   sabdfl  FC consisting of 3 current admins
06:55   ubuntugeek      Next time.. lets be more clear on how this is going to work
06:55   sabdfl  fair enough
06:55   jono    ubuntugeek: I think we can always improve communication - 95% of problems are simply misunderstandings
06:55   sabdfl  ok, could you guys make those threads sticky, and give them a wide pumping for wide discussion?
06:55   PriceChild      sabdfl: shall i rename both topics to "Potential..." instead of just the one?
06:56   ubuntugeek      sabdfl: sure
06:56   sabdfl  PriceChild: technically, they HAVE been nominated, and the CC is looking for background to make the appointments
06:56   ubuntu_demon    Will the CC schedule an extra meeting soon ? Instead of having to wait for a month ?
06:57   elmo    ubuntu_demon: yes
06:57   PriceChild      sabdfl: its just odd having the "Potential" the wrong way around considering discussions that have already taken part
06:59   ubuntu_demon    One question : should we defer Forum Staff to become Ubuntu Member until the next meeting so the CC can guide the FC at the next meeting ? That might be a nice way of smoothing the membership approval process

06:31   zarul   sorry to interrupt guys, I am worry that I won't be able to wait longer, just in case I have to go out any time soon, here is the link to my profile:
=== somerville32 cheers on Zarul.
06:32   EmxBA   +1 for zarul
06:32   sabdfl  zarul: what's your LP account? URL?
06:33   zarul
06:33   sabdfl  zarul: seems you have been active for more than a year?
06:33   sabdfl  that's great
06:33   zarul   sabdfl yes
06:34   zarul   I founded MalaysianTeam in May last year
06:34   zarul   If I am not wrong
06:34   zarul   and I tried hard to promote it here
06:34   zarul   and I am happy that we are growing now
06:34   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me on zarul, long participation, active advocacy, and team leadership
06:35   mako    +1 for me for zarul
06:35   zarul   thank you all
06:35   sabdfl  elmo? cjwatson, zarul?
06:36   elmo    fine with zarul.. [...]
06:36   cjwatson        +1 on zarul, though would like to see the malaysian team up for approval soon too since zarul's application is largely on that :-)
06:37   zarul   So if everything is ok, can I leave now?
06:37   sabdfl  zarul: congrats and welcome!
06:37   gnomefreak      zarul: congrats
06:37   zarul   ok
06:37   sabdfl  (and good night, safe travels home)
06:37   zarul   thank you all for voting

06:57   sabdfl  what's next?
06:58   MacSlow sabdfl, call for nominations on "Localisation / Translation Team Leader"  I believe
06:58   PriceChild      isn't there only 2 CC members present right now?
06:58   sabdfl  some things i think we can +1 with me and one other
06:59   sabdfl  so loco's we can do, members we can do
06:59   jenda   sabdfl: are we changing the rules in the middle of the game here? :)
07:00   sabdfl  jenda: i do have a casting vote
07:00   jenda   sabdfl: I'm not arguing

07:00   sabdfl  i think we can auto+1 all current forums staff for membership right away
07:00   sabdfl  elmo?
07:00   elmo    as long as they've been staff for > 1 month, sure
07:01   sabdfl  fair enough
07:01   PriceChild      sabdfl: those that are applying of course.... not all want it
07:01   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl : some forum staff might not want to become Ubuntu Members
07:01   sabdfl  i *think* FG makes that a must-do?
07:01   PriceChild      sabdfl: I thought it only meant they should abide by the CoC...
07:01   sabdfl  ok
07:01   sabdfl  you're right
07:01   ubuntugeek      sabdfl: we cant force them to be ubuntu members
07:01   elmo    PriceChild: that's implied by "auto+1", we wouldn't force membership on anyone
07:01   PriceChild      just checking :)
07:01   ubuntugeek      we have alot of good staff who just dont want to be that deep into it..
07:01   sabdfl  so, who's here, forums staff for more than 1 month?
07:02   PriceChild      I know several feel strongly about that
07:02   PriceChild      sabdfl: Me me me!!!
07:02   MikeB-  +1 for pricechild
07:02   SD-Plissken     What is price of being an ubuntumember pricechild. what do you have to give up to be a member such a team..
07:02   ubuntu_demon    +1 for pricechild :)
07:02   gnomefreak      sabdfl: i would like to cheer for a few memebers i have ameeting to go to. i +1 for Christoffer Karvonen TravisWatkins Tony Yarusso and CodySomerville
07:03   sabdfl  thanks gnomefreak
07:02   sabdfl  confirm PriceChild is forums staff / moderator for more than a month?
07:02   ubuntugeek      +1 for all our staff who wants it
07:02   PriceChild      SD-Plissken: I don't believe there's anything I have to give up...
07:03   sabdfl  PriceChild: what's your launchpad nick?
07:03   ubuntu_demon    sabdfl : yes pricechild has been Forum Staff for more than one month
07:03   frodon  +1 for PriceChild
07:03   PriceChild
07:03   jenda   sabdfl, elmo, just a BTW, there is a LP team indicating the forums staff:
07:03   jenda   I can't guarantee it's 100% accurate, some of the new ones may be missing.
07:04   PriceChild      SD-Plissken: becoming a member means I am bound by the CoC. This is just common decency to me and therefore in my opinon nothing to give up
07:04   sabdfl  PriceChild: congrats, and welcome!
07:04   PriceChild      Thanks :D
07:04   apokryphos      PriceChild: being an ubuntero bounds you to that too. Little more to it.
07:04   ubuntu_demon    congrats pricechild ! :)
07:04   SD-Plissken     Thats all Pricechild.. hope there was no fine print.. lol
07:04   kalon33 congrats PriceChild
07:04   effie_jayx      PriceChild,  :D
07:04   frodon  congrats pricey ;)
07:05   sabdfl  anybody else in the forums moderator applying for membership crowd?
07:05   ubuntugeek      I just spoke with Kingbahamut please +1 him for ubuntu meber he is an exceptional forum staff member..
07:05   ubuntugeek      he is unable to get on irc
07:06   sabdfl  ubuntugeek: LP name for KingBahamut?
07:06   ubuntugeek      Bill weber
07:07   PriceChild
07:07   PriceChild      ^ KingBahamut
07:07   sabdfl  as far as i can see, he has not applied for ubuntumember
07:07   jenda   King Bahamut has also been doing some impressive work on
07:07   ubuntu_demon    +1 for King Bahamut
07:08   SD-Plissken     +1 for King Bahamut
07:08   PriceChild      +1 KB
07:08   frodon  +1 for KingBahamut as well
07:09   sabdfl  ok, kingbahamut is done
07:10   ubuntugeek      +1 for SD-plissken for ubutnu-member he is a staff as well..
07:10   ubuntu_demon    +1 for SD-plissken
07:10   frodon  +1 for SD-plissken as well
07:10   jenda   SD-Plissken has been a good moderator for several months
07:10   frodon  LP :
07:11   sabdfl  SD-Plissken: done, welcome aboard
07:11   PriceChild      well done SD
07:11   ubuntu_demon    congrats SD-Plissken :)
07:11   frodon  congrat SD-Plissken :)
07:11   SD-Plissken     Thanks all
07:12   kalon33 congrats SD-Plissken

07:01   LoudMouthMan    Yes, okay well the UKTeam is applying for Approval and submitted its application to Jono for the councils consideration.
07:04   LoudMouthMan    sabdfl you asked about UKTeam, we have submitted the approval page for councils consideration do you have any further questinos ?
07:04   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: sorry, got diverted into low-hanging-fruit forums moderator membership approvals
07:06   elmo    ok, you guys get -0.005 for using "syngeristic" in your approval application wiki page
07:06   elmo    (synergistic even or however it's spelt)
07:06   ubuntu_demon    elmo : what does syngreristic mean ?
07:06   elmo    ubuntu_demon: ... exactly ;-)
07:07   elmo    anyway, I'm +1 on the UK team
07:07   elmo    (sorry, if we haven't got back to the loco team yet)
07:07   GazzaK  :-) thanks elmo
07:07   jono    the UK team have done some excellent work
07:08   jono    they have a strong structure and a number of keen contributors - they also have a good direction forward
07:08   jono    +1 for me
07:08   MikeB-  +1 for me
07:08   PriceChild      +1 UKTeam
07:09   sabdfl  +1 from me on the UK team
07:09   popey   w000t
07:09   apokryphos      nice 8)
=== GazzaK skips about a bit, thanks
07:09   jamesbrose      yay!
07:09   popey   Go us!
=== jayteeuk cheers
07:09   LoudMouthMan    So , sabdfl can I report back to the UKTeam that we have apporval ?  and thanks to everyone for the votes, it is much appreciated.
07:09   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: all done - and welcome!
07:09   sabdfl  very classy wiki page
07:09   sabdfl  the status chart for projects is particularly cool, IMO
07:10   LoudMouthMan    sabdfl thank you , I will pass the comments on to the team.
07:10   jono    congrats LoudMouthMan
07:10   jono    LoudMouthMan: I look forward to you leveraging synergies and fullfilling verticale markets
07:10   GazzaK  lol @ jono
07:10   LoudMouthMan    jono indeed, ill run those ideas up the flag pole soon enough
07:10   GazzaK  if he starts on that, I'm moving to tibet

=== MacSlow hands the voting crowd these URLs
07:12   sabdfl  MacSlow has an excellent track record upstream
07:12   sabdfl  also made good contributions at UDS Mountain View
07:12   dholbach        MacSlow is my favourite friendly flipping hacker in the Ubuntu community and I'm happy to see his cairo-clock in Ubuntu's Universe already.
07:12   sabdfl  MacSlow: where are you making ubuntu-specific contributions
=== MacSlow points to seb128, sabdfl, jono, dholbach, matthewrevell as his 'fan-club' :)
07:12   sabdfl  ?
07:13   MacSlow sabdfl,
07:13   MacSlow my upstream
07:13   seb128  MacSlow is doing some good job
07:13   MacSlow I do a bit guerilla-marketing KungFu on enemy-territory ->
07:13   seb128  nice to have cairo-clock to universe and him around looking at bling ;)
07:13   sabdfl  but let's wrap up with him, then do everyone else in order of the agenda
07:14   seb128  looks really good
07:14   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me for MacSlow on the basis of packaging contributions and votes form seb and dholbach
07:14   elmo    +1 for MacSlow too
07:14   sabdfl  welcome aboard, MacSlow
07:15   popey   congrats MacSlow
07:15   kalon33 Congrats MacSlow
07:15   dholbach        and what I saw from the future ubuntu hacks department already looks great too :-)
07:15   MacSlow sabdfl, cool thanks!
=== dholbach hugs MacSlow
=== MacSlow does a back-flip of rejoice :)
07:15   sabdfl  MacSlow: could you edit your LP display name to be "Mirco Mueller" with all the right dots?
07:18   MacSlow sabdfl, move both, my launchpad- and wiki-page, to MircoMueller instead of MacSlow?!
07:19   sabdfl  MacSlow: just change the "display name" (not the account name) on the LP one
07:19   sabdfl  macslow is fine as an account name
07:19   MacSlow sabdfl, ah ok
07:15   seb128  MacSlow: well done ;)
07:15   ubuntu_demon    congrats MaCSlow
07:15   MacSlow thanks everybody!
07:16   fernando        congrats MacSlow

07:19   markvandenborre the first 5 were already taken care of in the previous meeting
07:19   markvandenborre but not scrapped for some reason
07:19   sabdfl  were the first 5 all approved?
07:20   sabdfl  duelling banjos!
07:20   elmo    sabdfl: andrew wasn't yet
07:20   elmo    sabdfl: michael biena was
07:20   elmo    sabdfl: paul schulz was.. [shall I just edit the wiki page? :)]
07:21   sabdfl  elmo: i'm editing...
07:21   elmo    sabdfl: ok, Sridhar Dhanapalan  was also approved

07:19   sabdfl  markvandenborre: you're up!
07:19   markvandenborre
07:19   markvandenborre Belgian team lead
07:20   sabdfl  wow, awesome list of contributions, markvandenborre
07:20   sabdfl  how's the belgian free software scene shaping up?
07:21   markvandenborre it's rocking... you really should come to FOSDEM and experience it yourself
07:21   sabdfl  ok, very clear +1 from me for mark on the back of a very long period of participation and lots of diverse contributions
07:21   La_PaRCa        haha, you even have an endorsements section
07:22   GnuKemist       markvandenborre: seems to represent the Belgium team's best interest really well
07:22   markvandenborre sabdfl, thx!
07:22   elmo    +1 for mark
07:22   sabdfl  welcome aboard, mark!
07:22   kalon33 congrats markvandenborre !
07:22   dinda   Congrats Mark V!
07:22   jono    congrats markvandenborre
=== markvandenborre jumping around & smiling
07:23   MacSlow markvandenborre, congratulations
07:23   GnuKemist       markvandenborre: sing that Belgium song you were singing at the UDS  ;)
07:23   markvandenborre :)

07:23   elmo    seanh: ok, let's do you now then
07:24   seanh
07:24   sabdfl  seanh: very nice page, too
07:24   sabdfl  congrats on the oo.o advocacy!
07:24   seanh   thanks
07:25   sabdfl  +1 from me for seanh, on the back of very extensive advocacy
07:25   elmo    seanh: "I've been contributing to Ubuntu for two or three years." .. careful, almost in danger of time warping ;-)
07:25   seanh   heh, well, since the first release
07:25   elmo    but +1 from me also for seanh
07:25   MacSlow seanh, gee you've been busy!
07:25   sabdfl  ok, welcome aboard, seanh!
07:26   seanh   cool, thanks
07:26   kalon33 congrats seanh

07:26   elmo    Burgwork: ok, let's do .ca loco now then?
07:26   Burgwork        elmo: lets go
07:28   elmo    (sorry, just reading)
07:28   elmo    Burgwork: anything I should know ;-)
07:28   Burgwork        we are a pretty active with, with many of our members active in other ubuntu teams
07:28   Burgwork        and we have the canonical support office
07:29   Burgwork        although it is questionable how much work they actually do :)
07:29   jono    I just looked at the canadian application
07:29   jono    I think there needs to be a better fleshed out roadmap
07:29   sabdfl  Burgwork: errrr
07:30   jono    if the team could expand and possibly delegate volunteers to the roadmap, I think we are looking good
07:30   Burgwork        jono: sure
07:30   jono    Burgwork: if you can expand the roadmap and I am happy to approve if the CC would like me to
07:31   Burgwork        jono: now or on the wiki?
07:31   MagicFab        Burgwork, I can chip in that roadmap - we already have some work on that here (QC)
07:31   jono    Burgwork: later on the wiki
07:31   Burgwork        ok, will do
07:31   jono    I just think you need to better clarify your direction :)
07:31   Burgwork        alright
07:31   jamonation      Burgwork, jono lophyte says he's happy to help with that
07:31   jono    sabdfl: elmo happy if I look over the Canadian team's update roadmap and if it is suitable approe it?
07:32   tonyyarusso     I think that is beginning to get better, as we are planning to do regular meetings now.
07:32   elmo    jono: works for me
07:32   tonyyarusso     There's a lot going on, so the mtgs will help everyone know what they are and where they stand.
07:32   kalon33 Sorry elmo, jono, sabdfl, all, I'm a candidate for becoming an Ubuntu member and I've to go in 15 minutes... :/
07:32   sabdfl  jono: perfectly
07:32   jono    ok cool
07:32   jono    Burgwork: ping me when it is updated
07:33   Burgwork        jono: will do

07:32   elmo    kalon33: your next, go
07:33   kalon33 thanks
07:33   kalon33 Hello all, I'm kalon33, and my real name is Nicolas Derive. I'm a French student in biology at Bordeaux 2 university. My contributions to ubuntu are translations, bugs report and triage, and support to other users. Details are availiable on my wiki page. Any questions ?
07:33   kalon33
07:35   elmo    kalon33: how long have you been around and doing translations, triage etc.?
07:36   kalon33 since Dapper for translations and bug report (because I tested it too)
07:36   kalon33 triage for... 2 or 3 months
07:36   elmo    kalon33: ok
07:36   kalon33 and support for 1-2 months I think.
07:37   elmo    +1 from me for kalon33 on the basis of his translation and triage work
07:37   elmo    sabdfl: ?
07:37   kalon33 I'm using Ubuntu since July 2005, and started Dapper testing on January 2006.
07:37   sabdfl  +1 - welcome aboard kalon33!
07:37   elmo    ok, who's next in order
07:37   kalon33 and Edgy in July.
07:38   kalon33 thanks elmo, sabdfl
=== kalon33 is very happy !

07:38   elmo    theCore: still here?
07:38   theCore yes
07:38   theCore I'm Alexandre Vassalotti, a Science student in Quebec, Canada. I plan to go in Computer Science and I will probably do a career as a software developer. I been active in the Ubuntu community for a little bit more than a year. I'm currently mastering Python and C. I plan to use my skills to make Ubuntu even better. --
07:39   EtienneG        theCore, where are you located ?  I am in Mtl, used to live in Qubec City
07:39   MagicFab        theCore, consider joining :)
07:39   theCore EtienneG: near Montreal
07:39   jbailey As all the Qubec folks poke their heads in. =)
07:39   EtienneG        yes ... *please*
07:39   theCore EtienneG: Ile Perrot
07:39   Keybuk  Alexandre did the upstart logo </trivia>
07:39   tonyyarusso     theCore also is one of the folks who gives quizzes in #ubuntu-trivia for a mix of fun and learning.  :)
07:39   Keybuk  so has my full support :)
07:39   EtienneG        theCore, cool
07:39   GazzaK  triva is great :-)
07:39   theCore MagicFab: sure
07:39   EtienneG        are active in MLUG andor FACIL ?
07:39   kalon33 +1 for theCore, who works a lot with support and bug triage.
=== mneptok waves a a fleur-de-lis
07:40   anto9us theCore has worked very hard in lots of areas one of which has been the IRC channel #ubuntu-trivia to which he's given unselfish and unrelenting commitment to the education and entertainment of others, it's growing popular too :)
07:41   sfllaw  I'm throwing in my hat for theCore as well.
07:41   dholbach        the whole -ca mafia is around :)
07:42   elmo    ok, +1 from me to theCore on the basis of his incredible support work etc.
07:42   elmo    sabdfl: ?
07:53   sabdfl  +1 on theCore - python fans unite!
07:42   jenda   I can definitely vouch for theCore :)
07:42   mako-away       hmm
07:42   mako    fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for those here, things still seem to be in metion :)
07:42   jenda   Based on amazing work with #ubuntu-trivia and some contribution to UWN
07:43   Amaranth        sivang: that's why i'm hoping this won't take long
07:43   dsas_   I'm one of many that enjoy the friday quiz too :)

07:44   elmo    ok, let's start on amaranth while sabdfl's afk and mako's catching up
07:44   elmo    (assuming mako's willing to continue :)
07:44   PriceChild      I'll cheerlead on Amaranth
07:44   elmo    ok, I'll continue the skipping out of order thing, sorry for anyone this affects
07:44   mneptok i can endorse Amaranth. i have seen him active not only with Ubuntu itself, but upstream at GNOME as well.
07:45   elmo    Amaranth: go
07:45   Amaranth        Alright. Well, my name is Travis Watkins, I've been here before and been approved, just missed some little details. Hoping this won't take long. :)
07:45   elmo    Amaranth: what's willowNG?
07:45   elmo    might want to link to it on your wiki page
07:45   Keybuk  Amaranth also has my support, he's been pretty active on #upstart
07:45   dholbach        Amaranth: I tought you already were member
07:45   Amaranth        Oh, and I bring the bling! ;) Doing some work on compiz and beryl but mostly focusing on configuration frontends.
07:45   Amaranth        dholbach: haha
07:45   cbx33   Amaranth, is a star, has always been a great help to me and the whole of edubuntu ;)
07:46   dholbach        he's been active with smeg (now alacarte) too and it's been easy to work with him on bugs and all
07:46   Amaranth        elmo: I wish ogra was here to explain, I'm bad at this.
07:46   mneptok oh, Amaranth can also take a punch. face or groin. very handy.
07:46   GazzaK  can I be a fanboy for Amaranth too, as he has really helped me out, and others on irc, with beryl and other things
07:46   Amaranth        It's a web proxy that uses bayesian filtering to block unwanted content.
07:46   elmo    Amaranth: ah, I see, interesting
07:47   elmo    ok, +1 from me on amaranth on the basis of all the development work and fanboys (et al.)
07:47   cbx33   heheh
07:47   Amaranth        if it helps, "i bring bling" ;)
07:47   somerville32    +1 for Amaranth :]
07:47   elmo    Amaranth: doesn't do anything for me, but I'm sure it'll help with sabdfl
07:47   cbx33   Bling Bling Amaranth
07:47   ogra    Amaranth, ?
07:47   MacSlow Amaranth, that always helps :)
07:48   seb128  Amaranth: hint, you want to work on compiz ;)
07:48   Amaranth        seb128: I work on both. :)
07:48   MacSlow Amaranth, you need to work on compiz! ;)
07:48   seb128  Amaranth: compiz is better ;)
07:48   ogra    Amaranth has my full support if he commits to make willowng work again in feisty ;)
07:49   ogra    MacSlow, seb128 he should first finish his older projects ;)
07:50   ogra    MacSlow, the conmtent filter he wrote for edubuntu ... i'd like to have it on the CD for feisty
07:50   MacSlow ogra, comment-filter or content-filter?
07:54   sabdfl  +1 to Amaranth, long track record of contributions

07:48   elmo    ok, MagicFab you're up
07:48   MagicFab        elmo ok
07:48   MagicFab        I work on advocacy, translations, local support & translations. Sometimes I pitch in to answer the most-recent unanswered forum posts, sometimes I'll go spend hours on putting Xubuntu on those old macs. These days I am focused on making the ubuntu-co (Colombia) and ubuntu-qc (Quebec, Canada) teams official.
07:48   MagicFab        Oh, and I tried bling on a PIII-500 - it works! :D
07:48   MagicFab        URL:
07:49   elmo    MagicFab: full disclosure, pls
07:49   mneptok i'll endorse MagicFab heartily. i know he has been active in free software in Quebec for years, and has been advocating Ubuntu almost from the inception.
07:49   EtienneG        for what it is worth, i am all behind MagicFab
07:49   MacSlow ogra, just started reading his page more thoroughly
07:49   sfllaw  I met MagicFab two years ago where he was supporting Ubuntu!
07:49   La_PaRCa        I am a MagicFab fanboy. He has been doing great work getting the ubuntu-co team up and running.
07:49   EtienneG        basically, he *is* ubuntu-qc (we need to fix that)
07:49   MagicFab        elmo, I started working with Canonical's support office in Mtl 2 weeks ago. My membership was on the CC Agenda for a while
07:50   elmo    MagicFab: thx
07:50   cr3     I can also vouch for MagicFab's presence in the local communities in Quebec
07:50   EtienneG        and I take the blame for refering him :)
07:51   sfllaw  MagicFab is an excellent all around guy.
07:51   EtienneG        ^^
07:51   mneptok sfllaw*3
07:51   EtienneG        very pro, very level-head, the kind of advocate we want
07:51   MagicFab        cr3, sfllaw, mneptok, etienne are colleagues, but they have witnessed I am very respectful at Ubuntu parties :)
07:51   La_PaRCa        its the ubuntu-ca mafia
07:51   sfllaw  Where's jbailey?
07:51   cr3     for example, I know that MagicFab was present to all the free-software related events in Montreal: copyright 2005, sqil, linux-expo, many free software conferences and many many installfests
07:51   jbailey sfllaw: I'm here.
07:51   mneptok MagicFab: until the horse tranqulizers kick in
07:51   ogra    MacSlow, apt-cache show willowng
07:51   cr3     err, I mean all free-software related events I know of
07:51   jbailey sfllaw: But I don't have enough to contribute for his community interaction.
07:52   sfllaw  He organized jbailey's talk at FACIL.
07:52   jbailey MagicFab: Oh, you organised that?  Thanks. =)
07:52   MagicFab        sfllaw, I produced the video - don't know what's worse :)
07:52   elmo    sfllaw: is that a polite way of saying "ghost wrote"? ;-)
07:52   sfllaw  jbailey: Dude!
07:52   EtienneG        and e was advocating Ubuntu at all these place
07:53   jbailey sfllaw: Eh, I was told to show up at a particular place and give a talk on Ubuntu, so I did. =)
07:53   MagicFab and scrolling to "Contributions" is a good summary
07:53   mneptok jbailey: show up in my kitchen and give a tolk on Ubuntu as you bake me a pie.
07:53   jbailey Not having to know who arranged it only seems like a positive reflection on the organisation of it. =)
07:53   elmo    MagicFab: did you apply previously or am I misremembering?
07:54   MagicFab        elmo, twice, actually - wasn't considered sustained. np with that
07:54   elmo    ok, +1 from me for MagicFab
07:54   sabdfl  MagicFab: +1 too - welcome!
07:54   theCore thanks everyone for supporting me
07:55   EtienneG        MagicFab, well done, well deserved
=== jbailey ^5's to MagicFab
07:55   sabdfl  who's up next?
=== MagicFab hugs back
07:55   EtienneG        high five !

07:56   elmo    popey: go
07:56   popey that's me
07:56   popey   i do a lot of support, i created some screencasts - , I help LUGs..
07:56   sabdfl  popey: how's #ubuntu doing from a support perspective?
07:56   popey   I do web based support on the tickets
07:57   popey   generally don't venture into #ubuntu at the moment
=== Seeker` can vouch for popey, "I've not been here long, but he is very active in #ubuntu-uk, he made me feel welcome and is good at answering support requests on the channel
07:57   popey   find it easier to forumlate answers in support tickets
07:57   popey   clocked up 10 million karma :)
07:57   sabdfl  popey: what do you think of the web based tracker, have you spoken at all with flacoste who is leading the work onthat?
07:57   cbx33   popey is one of the most dedicated linux helpers around
07:57   LoudMouthMan    Im Popey fan club also and feel that UKTeam has consitantly benefited from his input.
07:57   cbx33   he's untiring in his efforts
07:57   popey   I like it, it's easy to use, I can help from anywhere :)
=== Seeker` agrees with LoudMouthMan
07:57   sabdfl  +1 from me on the basis of a huge contribution in ubuntu support
07:58   elmo    +1 too
07:58   mako    +1 from me as well
07:58   GazzaK  <GazzaK> I'd love to say a bit about Alan Pope, ( popey ) - He is very very helpful to all ubuntu users, he is very active on irc and has made some great demos on how to do things in ubuntu which are help on his own server ( ) he is also very active in launchpad, helping so many people.  In fact I support what he is doing so much I made this little (work safe) image -
=== dsas joins the popey fan club too, he's one of the big lp support people.
07:58   popey   \o/ thanks guys
07:58   sabdfl  241 results!
07:58   cbx33   dude you rock
07:58   popey   cheque in post
07:58   sabdfl  welcome aboard!

07:58   elmo    LoudMouthMan: I believe you needed to go next?
07:58   LoudMouthMan    Nik Butler is a 30 something Open Source Evangelist Living and Working in the South Of England and promoting OpenSource since the turn of the century. He has been promoting Ubuntu through BNI, FSB and his own Clients and regularly seeks new opportunities to increase awareness of Ubuntu as a Linux Desktop for Human Beings.His future plans include increasing awareness of Ubuntu to the many local SME IT Support companies in the
07:58   LoudMouthMan    South of  England.
07:59   popey   LoudMouthMan: ++++
=== Seeker` starts a LoudMouthMan fanclub too, "He is also very helpful and welcoming, and has done a lot for the UK team"
07:59   sabdfl  mehdi?
=== binary2k2 waves his "LoudMouthMan for Ubuntu Membership" flag too
07:59   dsas    +1 for LoudMouthMan he's basically the  ubuntu-uk lead
07:59   GazzaK  Nik Butler ( LoudMouthMan ) is a very helpful person, I have been helped on many occasions by him, and he is always in the #ubuntu-uk channel.  both him and popey were at the linuxworld2006 expo and made everyone feel very welcomed.  yet again, as my show of being a total fanboy I made this - - (work safe image)
07:59   popey   +1 for LoudMouthMan for organising the expo stand
07:59   NeilSimmons     LMM get a +1 from me, coz I can't give him a +10.
08:00   sabdfl  Nik, awesome personal wiki page
08:00   LoudMouthMan    thanks . sabdfl.
08:00   NeilSimmons     He's been my personal introduction to FOSS and especially Linux since 1999 and as helped countless small business users get the benefits of Linux as well.
08:01   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: do you do much online, or mostly in-person advocacy?
08:01   sabdfl  and what's the BCF?
08:01   LoudMouthMan    sabfl its moslty been in person advocacy my online persona has kicked off since Jono kicked me into touch. but support tickets wise not so much as popey
08:01   LoudMouthMan    British Computer Fairs,
08:02   mako    LoudMouthMan: how long have you been involved in ubuntu?
08:02   LoudMouthMan    oh and Business Network International .
08:02   GazzaK  and he also sorted out Polo Shirts for the linuxworld expo :-)
08:02   LoudMouthMan    mako when did it first get on the magazine covers in the uK ? probably over a year ogo .
08:02   mako    LoudMouthMan: great :)
08:02   LoudMouthMan    theres a Southafrican travel compny called Ehtosmarketing who make most use of it!
08:03   mako    anyone else involved in the UK team who wants to give a testimonial
=== Seeker` would like to reiterate his point that he is very valuable to the UK team
08:03   elmo    mako: I think GazzaK and popey did?  or do you want some more?
08:03   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me for LoudMouthMan on the back of strong advocacy over time
08:03   elmo    +1 from me too
08:03   sabdfl  LWE was awesome this year, thanks LoudMouthMan
08:03   GazzaK  \o/ yay for popey \o/ yay for LoudMouthMan
08:04   LoudMouthMan    sabdfl well it was the team but thanks.
08:04   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: what's your LP nick?
08:04   sabdfl  can't see you in the applicants list of ubuntumembers
08:04   LoudMouthMan    it should be NIkButler on Launchpad and its loudmouthmanonline
08:04   LoudMouthMan    sabdlf I wasnt sure if you join that before or after approval ?
08:05   elmo    LoudMouthMan: it seems to be 'reducedhackers' ?
08:05   elmo    LoudMouthMan: before, please do it now
08:05   LoudMouthMan    will do
08:06   mako    yeah, +1 for me too
08:06   mako    for LoudMouthMan
08:06   LoudMouthMan    elmo changed to nikbutler is that okay ?
08:06   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: np
08:06   elmo    LoudMouthMan: whatever you like is fine
08:07   LoudMouthMan    thanks guys, cheers everyone .
08:07   sabdfl  LoudMouthMan: you need to go to and apply there
08:09   LoudMouthMan    sabdlf: also now done , thanks

08:05   elmo    mruiz: go
08:05   sabdfl  mruiz: go go go!
++06:29 newz2000        sorry to interupt, but I've got to go visit family in hospital now, I'm here to give a +1 for mruiz - he's been extremely active in trying to get latin america loco teams coordinated and really is busy trying to make things better for spanish speaking loco teams and ubuntu users
08:06   mruiz   Hello. My name is Miguel Ruiz, Chilean Ubuntu LoCo member. I'm 23 years old. Currently I'm studying computer science. I've been using Linux since approximately May 2002. I discovered Ubuntu in January 2005 with Warty Warthog, and it became my favourite distro.
08:06   sabdfl  mruiz: how can we improve the consistency of LoCo team websites?
08:07   mruiz   My personal wiki:  and my LP account:
08:07   MagicFab        mruiz, is also proposing a spanish planet - we're talking about coordinating all the spanish/latinam. locos
08:07   mruiz   sabdfl: you can visit
08:07   sabdfl  mruiz: i like that site
08:08   sabdfl  i was asking how you think we can make it easier to get all the loco teams tohave really good sites, like this
08:08   sabdfl  can we provide more standard services?
08:08   mruiz   sabdfl: yes, I think this is a good idea
08:09   sabdfl  mruiz: i'm really pleased to see contributions across quite a wide variety of places - bugs, loco, translations etc
08:09   sabdfl  thats very cool
08:09   Yann2   (providing templates would help, imho)
08:09   sabdfl  you started using ubuntu in Jan 05, when did you become active in the community?
08:09   mruiz   yes, I share our templates with others LoCo teams
08:09   EmxBA   also some forum (SMF, vbulletin or punbb) or joomla and other CMS templates would be helpful...?
08:10   sabdfl  mruiz: when did you become an active contributor, as opposed to a user?
08:11   mruiz   sabdfl: I started my work with Ubuntu community during last year, when we started in Chile our LoCo
08:11   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me on the back of LoCo team leadership and website contributions
08:11   mruiz   sabdfl, remember newz2000 vote and opinion
08:12   somerville32    :]
08:12   elmo    +1 from me too
08:12   mako    +1 from me as well, for the sae reasons as mark
08:12   somerville32    Sweet!
08:12   sabdfl  super - welcome aboard, mruiz, and thank you for your contributions so far!
08:12   somerville32    Welcome mruiz! :)
08:14   sabdfl  mruiz: i don't see you in the list of people applying for ubuntumembership
08:14   mruiz   sabdfl: ok, I will do it

08:12   elmo    EmxBA: you're up
08:12   mruiz   thanks!
08:12   EmxBA   ok
08:12   EmxBA   my launchpad account is on translations on Wiki page has some information about me - I've made some redesigned Edubuntu logos - look at I've had Fujitsu Siemens Amilo L6825 notebook and tested it - . I've founded Bosnian Team ( - see - there's mailing list ( and IRC channel (#ubuntu-ba on FreeNode) already, with descriptive wiki page too. Also reviewed and promoted Edubuntu and Ubuntu in 3 articles in local IT magazine ( , and inside the regional (Bosnian and Herzegovinian)
08:12   EmxBA   LUG
08:12   sabdfl  mruiz: what's your launchpad id, and have you applied for ubuntumembers?
08:13   mruiz   sabdfl: my LP id is mruiz
08:13   sabdfl  emir - how long have you been an active contributor?
08:13   EmxBA   since june this year
08:14   EmxBA   and used ubuntu since last year
08:13   sabdfl  and in which areas would you say you make the biggest contribution?
08:14   EmxBA   sabdfl: translations, and loco team (that will be the primary thing in the future, yay)
08:14   sabdfl
08:15   sabdfl  ok, i see lots of translations, over several months
08:15   sabdfl  what's your top wishlist feature for rosetta?
08:16   EmxBA   wishlist....erm, dunno. rosetta is fine for me, sabdfl
08:15   mako    EmxBA: how many people are involved in the bosnian loco?
08:16   EmxBA   just me for now, because it's started few weeks ago, mako
08:16   mako    EmxBA: how long has the team been active?
08:16   EmxBA   mako: the wiki page appeared on 30th october 2006
08:16   mako    EmxBA: nobody else has expressed interest?
08:16   mako    yet
08:18   EmxBA   mako: did, on the Bosnian LUG forum (, but there are no members yet. the things that were the main was IRC (and IRC meeting were organized too), and maling list. the resources are there and there are members on the forum and i know lots of them (use ubuntu for a lot)
08:17   sabdfl  EmxBA: +1 from me, on the basis of lots of translation contributions
08:17   mako    right, the translations work is very good
08:18   mako    i don't know how i feel about a loco team with only on member.. still a great way to do promotion but not much of a team ;)
08:18   EmxBA   i told you, it has opened recently...
08:18   mako    EmxBA: yes yes, i know :)
08:19   sabdfl  EmxBA: so you are saying there are bosnian contributors on irc, mailing list, just not signed up in LP team?
08:19   EmxBA   and i'm also translating ubuntu guide to bosnian -
08:19   EmxBA   sabdfl: yes, for now. but look e.g at, he has more than 2 million karma points
08:19   sabdfl  ok, i'm happy
08:19   mako    anyway, i'm happy with membership based on translations and advocacy work
08:20   EmxBA   or this guy which lives in germany, or the bosnian which helps a lot in the LUG too
=== mako nods
08:20   mako    EmxBA: keep up the good work
08:20   mako    +1 for me
08:20   sabdfl  and ask vlubovic to apply for membership too, if he wants :-)
=== somerville32 woots for EmxBA! :)
=== mako nods to sabdfl
08:20   elmo    +1 from me too
08:20   sabdfl  superb, welcome aboard, EmxBA
08:20   EmxBA   just, I'm afraid that your opinions will change because of my years, assuming I'm the youngest active Ubuntu contributor
08:21   sabdfl  youth is no obstacle - contribution, and approach (CoC) count
08:21   sabdfl  hmm... should ask age on LP, so we would know who the oldest contributor is, too!
08:21   mako    EmxBA: you're probably not the youngest
08:21   somerville32    Toby Smithe is 13 or 14
08:21   EmxBA   active contributor, mako?
08:21   mako    EmxBA: yes
08:22   maxamillion     the founder of fluxbuntu is 19 and that impressed me :)
08:22   mako    i'm not sure, but we've approved membership applications from people who are 13 and 14 before
08:22   sabdfl  EmxBA: you hear that? you're *old* :-)
08:22   EmxBA   OK, thank you!!! I like Ubuntu more than I used to :)))
08:23   EmxBA   thanks sabdfl, it was nice chatting with the person whose article I've written on Bosnian Wikipedia :))) and others from CC ;)

08:22   elmo    somerville32: I think you're next
08:22   somerville32    Hi, My name is Cody A.W. Somerville (aka somerville32) and I'm here today to apply for membership to the Ubuntu Community. I believe I have made an active and sustained contribution to *Ubuntu over the last few months through Translation and Localisation to English (Ca), support to users on #xubuntu, regular bug triage and support on Launchpad, local advocacy, development and administration of the websit
08:22   somerville32    e, as an active contributor to the Xubuntu Welcome Centre project and specification, as a regular contributor to xubuntu-devel mailing list, as an xubuntu developmer, my presentation at Ubuntu Open Week, as an editor of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, as the Xubuntu Wiki maintainer, as an IRC op and contact for the Xubuntu namespace, packaging, community development, and much more with roughly 40hrs a week devoted to
08:22   somerville32    *Ubuntu. Looking to the future, I'd like to continue to contribute in the aforementioned areas and will work on improving the desktop experience, further development of the Xubuntu and Ubuntu community, documentation, contributing upstream, plus numerous other endeavors. One day I hope to become a Canonical employee so that I can work on Xubuntu full time! :]
08:22   somerville32    My Wiki page can be found at
08:22   somerville32    P.S. Big thanks to Jenda, Burgundavia, Seveas, Gloubiboulga, Vincent, Gnomefreak, Crimsun, TheSheep, Maxamillion, Jani, LjL, Tonyyarruso, dholbach (plus thanks for all the hugs), members of the Xubuntu and Ubuntu Community, and the numerous other individuals that I've had the pleasure of working with!! *hugs*
08:23   sabdfl  somerville32: really nice wiki page
08:23   sabdfl  those have become very, very good lately
08:23   somerville32    Thanks :]
08:24   jenda   Cody somerville32 has been a great help with the Ubuntu Weekly News recently.
=== imbrandon is here to cheer a bit for somerville32 also , he has been trying to learn ( and doing a good job of it ) packaging too
08:24   mako    i need to meet with someone who is leaving in 40 minutes
08:24   sabdfl  somerville32: how's the xubuntu community shaping up?
08:24   jenda   (and some nice work with teh open week too)
08:24   somerville32    sabdfl: I think Feisty is going to be a big milestone for us. Community activity has seen a dramatic increase since the release of Dapper.
08:24   sabdfl  what's driving the community activity?
08:25   maxamillion     Cody Somerille is driving community activity
08:25   tonyyarusso     I'll wave a little somerville32 flag for work on UWN past and upcoming - he signed up for quite a few "beats" at our last mtg :)
08:25   jenda   PLUS he's from Fredericton, which was my home for a year, so I definitely think he deserves membership :)
08:25   mako    tonyyarusso: great
08:25   maxamillion     sabdfl: cody is probably the single most active part of xubuntu and does a great deal of organization for the rest of us to have direction in our contributions
08:25   theCore sabdfl: probably, :)
08:26   sabdfl  translation is all recent for somerville32
08:26   mako    somerville32: great wikipage
08:26   somerville32    Thanks :)
08:26   sabdfl  cody, are you actively packaging much?
08:26   somerville32    sabdfl: Yes.
08:26   sabdfl  who's sponsoring your uploads?
08:27   somerville32    Crimsun has agreed to be my mentor and sponsor.
08:27   imbrandon       sabdfl: yes he is a regular in the #ubuntu-motu channel soaking up as much as possible and even helping other motu hopefulls where he can
08:27   elmo    how many xubuntu folks are core-dev atm?
08:27   somerville32    elmo: A handful, I would guess.
08:27   sabdfl  somerville32: when would you say you became an active contributor, rather than user?
08:28   somerville32    sabdfl: Ever since I started using Ubuntu, I've helped out and what not in IRC. However, I would say that I started to take an active role as a contributor 3-4 months ago.
08:29   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me on the basis of a wide variety of contributions over several months
08:29   MacSlow imbrandon, greetings btw
08:29   mako    somerville32: yeah, there is a wide range of contributions and good documentation
08:29   elmo    +1, same
08:29   imbrandon       moins MacSlow
08:29   mako    +! for me
08:29   mako    +1 even
08:30   sabdfl  ok, welcome aboard somerville32
08:30   somerville32    Thanks. :)
08:30   sabdfl  will update LP now
08:30   maxamillion     w00t for somerville32 !!!!!

08:28   EmxBA   can someone give us, new members, a FAQ list or wiki page about things that should be done after the approval process? irc cloak and mail on comes when?
08:29   EmxBA   and membership on ubuntumembers is 2 years?
08:32   apokryphos      EmxBA: for a cloak ping Seveas, when he's around
08:33   sabdfl  EmxBA: email address comes automatically, with a short delay
08:33   sabdfl will forward to your LP preferred email
08:33   EmxBA   ok, my mail is available on launchpad page
08:33   EmxBA   ok

08:30   elmo    jonh_wendell: you're up, go
08:30   jonh_wendell    Hello. My name is Jonh Wendell. I'm a 27 years old programmer by profession. I started using Linux in 1997 at School. I like to contribute with FOSS. It's very exciting. Mainly coding. I really like to code! Triaging bugs is a very cool activity too.
08:30   jonh_wendell    My wikipage:
08:30   jonh_wendell    My LP id:
08:31   sabdfl  jonh_wendell: you look really young for your age!
08:31   jonh_wendell    haha
08:31   sabdfl  ah, your son :-)
08:31   sabdfl  where would you say you make the biggest contribution to the project?
08:31   seb128  jonh_wendell is doing a rocking work on desktop bugs, on launchpad and also working with upstream
08:31   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, translation and bug triage, i guess
08:31   sabdfl  i see lots of bug work, which is really great
08:32   sabdfl  where in brazil do you live?
08:32   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, Macei - AL
08:32   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, Water paradise, a lot of wonderful beaches
08:32   sabdfl  do you have any specific suggestions about how we can help the brazilian community?
08:33   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, almost everything is nice in ubuntu-br
08:33   sabdfl  who would you describe as the strongest leaders of the ubuntu-br community?
08:33   elmo    where are the usual ubuntu-br  cheering contingent?
08:34   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, maybe we need a change
08:34   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, because there are some personal issues involved...
08:35   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, but i can't tell much because i'm relative novice on ubuntu-br
08:35   sabdfl  jonh_wendell: ok. you can encourage folks to talk those issues through in a forum or irc or mailing list, and raise any disputes to CC if needed. how long would you say you have been an active contributor?
08:36   jonh_wendell    sabdfl, in Ubuntu, since July, 2006, when i finished my university
08:36   sabdfl  jonh_wendell: +1 from me, mainly on bug triage and advocacy
08:37   jonh_wendell    elmo, translation, documentation really makes difference on our community
08:37   sabdfl  i must say i think the brazilian community is amazing
08:37   sabdfl  i know there are some tensions
08:37   dholbach        I'm very happy with jonh_wendell too!
08:37   sabdfl  i'd like to see those resolved - but they don't seem to be slowing things down
08:37   jonh_wendell    thanks, seb128, dholbach
08:38   sabdfl  elmo?
08:38   elmo    +1
08:38   sabdfl  welcome aboard - jonh_wendell!
08:38   sabdfl  LP updated
08:38   seb128  jonh_wendell: congrat!
08:38   elmo    jderose: I think you're next
08:38   jonh_wendell    thanks!!!!

08:38   elmo    go
08:38   jderose Hello everyone! My name is Jason DeRose.
08:38   jderose After talking to seb128, I think I might have given more weight to my upstream work than I should have (as far as Ubuntu member candidacy is concerned), but I guess it doesn't hurt to try. ;) slomo might have had a chance to look at my KungFu package. A few people might remember me from DebConf in Brazil...
08:39   jderose I wrote KungFu, a Python-gtk-gstreamer based DVD ripper, which I have packaged for Ubuntu and hope to get included in Feisty. I'm working on implementing full DVD support under gstreamer0.10, which I might finish in time to be included in Feisty. My development work has generally been upstream, but I wish to use my upstream experience, particularly with GStreamer, to help improve Ubuntu where I can. And once I am less
08:40   elmo    jderose: how long have you been contributing to ubuntu?
08:41   jderose my first packaging was about 10 months ago, fuplayer...
08:41   sabdfl  how many packages have you worked on?
08:42   jderose the past 3 moths or so i've been a lot more active.... i've packaged two apps i've written, fuplayer and kungfu.
08:42   sabdfl  jderose: what do you think of pulse audio?
08:42   sabdfl  are you active on mailing lists, irc, or forums?
08:43   elmo    oh, and who's been sponsoring your packages?
08:43   seb128  the few bugs I've read from jderose are good quality ones (testcases attached to the bugs and a gstreamer patch by example), he didn't work on a lot of bugs for now though
08:43   jderose i don't know a great deal about it yet, but is looks very interesting.  there is heating discussion on gst-devel lately  about audio server, mostly over how to address pro-audio issues.
08:43   jderose slomo is going to sponsor kungfu.
08:44   sabdfl  jderose: i really like the quality of your contribution, but i think we normally look for a longer period of active participation
08:44   sabdfl  would it be reasonable to say "keep going, come back in a month or two"?
08:44   jderose sabdfl: fair enough. i can apply again later if that is the consensus.
08:44   jderose sabdfl: sure.  ;)
08:44   sabdfl  it seems you do very crisp work, which is nice
08:44   sabdfl  sorry about the LONG delay in getting to you :-)
08:45   sabdfl  sitting through a full CC meeting should earn major karma points
08:45   jderose sabdlf: no worries, it was a learning experience.  ;)  how long should i wait before trying to apply again?
08:45   sabdfl  jderose: chat with seb128 and dholbach

08:45   sabdfl  who's next?
08:45   sabdfl  tonyyarusso: go go go!
08:45   tonyyarusso     Hello, I am Tony Yarusso.  I've been most present on IRC, providing (and receiving) user support, as a member of the New User Network, Canadian Team, and most recently, IRC Team, among others.  With the NUN I gave a class on GPG, and helped moderate for Open Week.  I also dabble in documentation and marketing, and have begun looking into coordinating a translation, specifications, and helping out with the UWN.
08:45   sabdfl  when they are happy, come again
08:45   tonyyarusso     I also spend time on mailing lists and answering support queries in LP.  More detailed information can be found on the Wiki ( and LP (
08:46   sabdfl  how's the NUN going?
08:46   tonyyarusso     A little of each.
08:46   apokryphos      tonyyarusso is a VERY helpful user on IRC and a recent addition to our Operator team
08:46   keeb    tonyyarusso: is a very cool guy, always there to help.
08:46   tonyyarusso     When we have stuff, it's awesome.  Although, sometimes we lack instructors for classes - the one I did was a pretty last minute fill in.
08:46   lophylap        tonyyarusso is an awesome addition to the -ca loco team :)
08:47   keeb    I have seen him work in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic, always very helpful, very knowledgeable, and very polite
08:47   PFA     he is the only person who is actually patient enough to sort through my numerous and various computer woes
=== lophylap formally vouches for tonyyarusso
08:47   sabdfl  tonyyarusso: are you often acting as an OP on IRC?
08:47   tonyyarusso     For NUN stuff, I think it would be great if we could expand our base of instructors.  A lot of the stuff we do is pretty basic, but people hear "teach" and aren't sure if they're qualified.
08:48   tonyyarusso     sabdfl: Every day for the last what, week and a half now?
08:48   apokryphos      he's been doing well :)
08:48   sabdfl  tonyyarusso: how long have you been an active contributor?
08:49   tonyyarusso     sabdfl: Well, I started giving answers that others had given me on IRC pretty much the same week I started.  It was probably four months or so in (after aug 05) that the amount I could give back was reaching a critical mass
08:49   sabdfl  ok, +1 from me for a sustained and significant contribution, mostly in user support
08:49   Burgwork        tonyyarusso has been an active contributor to the the UWN and the Canadian Team
08:49   tonyyarusso     Beyond IRC, other things started falling into place around this time - Feb last year.
08:50   nalioth tonyyarusso is an asset to the Ubuntu community
08:50   somerville32    +1 for tonyyarusso !
08:50   PFA     tonyyarusso is the king of canada
08:50   keeb    lol
08:50   PFA     srsly, he is mega awesome and all kinds of things.
08:50   elmo    +1 from me too
08:51   apokryphos      congrats, tonyyarusso 8)
08:51   keeb    grats, tonyyarusso :)
08:51   PFA     yay!! ^^
08:51   theCore congrats, tonyyarusso
08:51   PriceChild      well done
08:51   jenda   congrats tony :)
08:51   tonyyarusso     My long-term future project is looking at an Ojibwe translation, which I expect will be slow going, but super cool :)
08:51   tonyyarusso     Thanks all!
08:51   jbailey Eh, cool.
08:52   jbailey (For those who don't know, Ojibwe is a fairly commonly spoken native language in Canada)
08:53   sabdfl  ok
08:53   sabdfl  wow

08:53   sabdfl  two quick announcements from the CC, based on a call we had earlier
08:54   sabdfl  we have all approved the idea of creating a new position of "CC Secretary"
08:54   sabdfl  and we have invited Seveas to take that office as its founding title holder :-)
08:54   sabdfl  Seveas makes a huge contribution to ubuntu
08:54   sabdfl  especially to keeping the CC and other leading groups on track
08:54   sabdfl  and we think that's a job that deserves specific recognition
08:55   sabdfl  so, thank you seveas, and congratulations on the new position
08:55   sabdfl  also, we discussed expanding the CC
08:55   ajmitch congratulations Seveas, if you're around still :)
08:55   sabdfl  i will make some nominations later this month, after discussing them with the folks concerned
08:55   sabdfl  ubuntumembers will have a series of votes to confirm those nominations or veto them
08:56   sabdfl  we will have two types of nominations
08:56   sabdfl  some will be straight up-or-down confirmation/veto votes
08:56   sabdfl  others will be more like a race, with m candidates where we will accept the top n into the CC
08:56   sabdfl  cjwatson is going to step down from the CC after an amazing two and a half years of leadership there
08:57   sabdfl  he will stand for the TB next (ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-dev vote to confirm nominations to the TB)
08:57   sabdfl  that's all from me
08:57   sabdfl  closing comments, mako, elmo?
08:57   elmo    not from me
08:57   sabdfl  i think mako's stepped afk
08:57   PriceChild      Thanks CC :)
08:57   sabdfl  ok, THANK YOU everyone!
08:58   sabdfl  yowser, we got through a lot
08:58   sabdfl  in like 9 hours :-)
08:58   kalon33 thanks sabdfl

MeetingLogs/CC-2006-12-12 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:22:22 by localhost)