06:10 Seveas         anyway: let's get started and not hold up the release team
   06:10 mako           yes, definitely
   06:10 azeem          mako: congrats
   06:10 msikma         What's first on the agenda?
   06:10 Seveas         msikma's item is up first, about wiki licensing
   06:11 msikma         Aha, great.
   06:11 Seveas         I assume everyone has read the agenda
   06:11 Kamion         so, we had a brief discussion in the office about that (since we wanted to get Mark's opinion too)
   06:12 msikma         Yeah, about wiki licensing. Like mentioned, I've got some concerns about the content on the wiki. It's great that it is set to be released into the public domain, but I question how it would work for things put on there (code snippets, images, etc.) that the author doesn't want to or can't formally release into PD.
   06:12 Kamion         (we'd like to get mdke in too, but apparently he's not here)
   06:12 Kamion         I think we'd be OK with PD as a default with exceptions, if that's sanely implementable in the wiki
   06:12 Seveas         idle time close to 2.5 hours, he's likely not around
   === Yagisan isn't happy with PD
   06:13 Kamion         Yagisan: unfortunately there is nothing that makes everyone happy
   06:13 msikma         On Wikipedia, it's easy to simply put a different copyright notice in an image or other inclusion.
   06:13 Kamion         (I wanted MIT personally, but ...)
   06:13 msikma         This same system isn't currently in the wiki system we use and would have to be programmed in if this is a solution.
   06:13 highvoltage    heh, how relevant, we discussed this on #edubuntu today too.
   06:13 Kamion         do you have any idea how much code that would be?
   06:13 msikma         I personally don't have a clue, since I've never seen the source code for that wiki system. I'm also not really a PHP hacker.
   06:14 Seveas         it's python ;) (moinmoin)
   06:14 msikma         Aha
   === Yagisan was happy with the CC-BY-SA. Otherwise I'd never have contributed. It is exactly like asking me to re-license my GPL code to BSD
   06:14 Seveas         Yagisan, the license has been chosen - this discussion is NOT about which icense to use
   06:14 Seveas         please stay on topic
   06:14 elmo           Seveas: err, easy dude
   06:15 Kamion         Seveas: stop it, he's not advocating a particular licence, he's saying he doesn't like this choice - which is relevant
   06:15 mhz            regarding shouldn't be that much...even just replacing one image fro another would work a patch solution
   06:15 Seveas         elmo: just trying not to go offtopic and keeping you from reease stuff too long
   06:15 msikma         The problem lies not in the license, but rather the fact that confusion may arise due to such things. At the very least, the license should read "all text in this wiki is released into the PD" rather than "all content".
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   06:15 Kamion         Seveas: we'll be faster if we don't have to have meta-arguments
   06:15 mako           PD is problematic
   06:15 mako           because the concept of public domain is not easily internationable
   06:15 jsgotangco     true
   06:16 mako           which is why the creative commons public domain dedication is the one license that is *not* part of hte icommons translations and internationalizations
   06:16 msikma         Maybe include a "if this is not legally possible, the authors waive all rights", mako?
   06:16 Kamion         mako: we did discuss that, btw - see WikiLicensing
   === mako nods
   06:16 Kamion         or for that matter the e-mail that went out
   06:16 Yagisan        Seveas: thanks. I was on topic, but that settles it. license revoked of all my work then as this happens far to often. The cange is a step back that can't be enforced.
   06:16 Kamion         Yagisan: please ignore Seveas
   06:16 msikma         In any case: if, for example, all wikicode were licensed as PD, there would likely not be a problem since that way you can still include images in pages with a different copyright.
   06:17 Kamion         Yagisan: this is not settled
   06:17 msikma         You'd only be releasing the text of the link into the PD rather than the image.
   06:17 msikma         But that's something a legal expert should confirm!
   06:17 mako           ok.. the wikimedia text looks nice
   06:18 msikma         All the PD images on Wikipedia, for example, also say "In case PD is not legally possible, all rights are waived."
   06:18 msikma         (Paraphrased.)
   06:18 Kamion         (the problem with CC-BY-SA, and most copylefts, FWIW, was licence compatibility and incorporation into documentation in the distro and stuff)
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   06:19 mako           right, a more permissiable license, BSD style for example, would solve that
   06:19 mako           even the CC-BY license would solve that
   06:19 mako           because it allows sublicensing
   06:19 msikma
   06:19 Kamion         mako: I'm with you, but I'm not keen on going over it again and again, particularly since we did do this in a previous meeting and we don't have mdke here
   06:19 eyequeue       point of clarification: is this discussion about default licensure?  there is still an option for the author to "unless specified as ___" correct? [y/n]  (rather than waiving)
   06:19 Kamion         I think you were in the previous meeting too :)
   06:19 msikma         Quoting: "I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law."
   06:20 msikma         eyequeue: yeah, that's the discussion.
   06:20 msikma         We should prevent license confusion.
   06:20 Kamion         in any event: I think we (FSVO we, Mark said he would be happy with this anyway) are happy for individuals to pick a different licence from the default as long as it's clearly marked so that people know what they're doing when they're borrowing wiki content for documentation
   06:21 msikma         The thing is, it's difficult to enforce people to do that.
   06:21 mako           Kamion: i'm not really thrilled with that
   06:21 msikma         Will they have to copypaste something whenever they want to release something in CC-BY-NC, for example?
   06:21 mako           i mean, it would be fine as long as we set some default limit or base set of expectations
   06:21 msikma         There are no templates in the wiki system we're using (unless I've simply never FOUND them before).
   06:21 Kamion         mako: it does make things more complicated but I cannot see that any single option is going to keep even the majority of contributors happy
   06:21 mako           Kamion: that's fine.. but we should ensure a base line
   06:21 Kamion         oh, yeah, limiting to "free-ish" licences obviously ...
   06:21 mako           Kamion: so you can waive or not waive attribution, but you shouldn't block commericial use
   06:21 msikma         A system like on Wikipedia works very well, but it would take time to program this in.
   06:22 Yagisan        Kamion: do you have a link (perhaps after meeting) on why CC-BY-SA isn't suitable
   06:22 highvoltage    blocking commercial use would make it a non-free license, yes.
   06:22 mako           Kamion: also, that is not part of the proposal AFAICT
   06:23 msikma         In any case, regardless of the license we'll use, we need to find some (easy) way to ensure people won't accidentally release their works into the public domain.
   06:23 msikma         I believe that not licensing images by default and stating that all content is PD "unless otherwise stated" is the key to doing this.
   06:23 Kamion         Yagisan: as I understand it, it's neither GPL-compatible nor GFDL-compatible
   06:23 gnomefreak     is this gonna change the way wikis are handled in making or contributing to wikis?
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   06:24 msikma         What is this discussion about? The license we'll use or legal rights confusion? The latter is on the agenda.
   06:24 Kamion         mako: not at the moment, but the proposal clearly needs some work based on the objections received at community-council@ IMO
   06:24 mako           the GFDL/CC-BY-SA compatibility situation might change
   06:24 msikma         mako: that will affect later versions of the CC licenses, not the ones there are now.
   06:24 mako           as in, folks are both sides are interested in solving that problem and working on it
   06:24 mako           msikma: that's correct
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   06:24 mako           but almost all works, and concievably these too, would be under an "or any later version" clause
   06:25 Yagisan        msikma: there is confusion with PD. it isn't recognised in all countries. something like a CC license is (TTBOMK).
   06:25 Kamion         that's not something we would be wise to rely on IMO
   06:25 msikma         In any case, I don't think we should be discussing which license we're going to use.
   06:25 msikma         That's a different discussion.
   06:25 msikma         I would be fine with many different free licenses.
   06:25 msikma         My point is that it's not always useful to license everything into one specific license since this isn't always possible.
   06:25 Kamion         --> any possible licence we might choose will have objectors <--
   06:26 mako           Kamion: that's right, and there's no timescale
   06:26 mako           msikma: and not everyone is happy contributing in a wiki at all, which is why we have multiple sources of documentation
   06:26 mako           and even multiple wikis!
   06:26 msikma         As far as I know, we're not discussing licenses, but rather we're discussing how we can prevent people from accidentally releasing things into the PD that they shouldn't.
   06:27 Kamion         the wikilicensing proposal already requires displaying a prominent notice
   06:27 msikma         But this would mean that, for example, you can't post GPL code snippets in the wiki, or post screenshots of themes or icon sets that are non-PD licensed.
   06:27 Kamion
   06:27 Yagisan        mako: ah, according to the email I got, May 10 (1 month after I recived it) all the wiki goes PD
   06:27 Kamion         Yagisan: *under discussion*
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   06:27 Kamion         ok, let me have a minute to type this
   06:28 msikma         Kamion: but isn't it so that if I were to post an image on the Wiki of a CC-licensed background, I would be attempting to release it into the PD?
   06:28 msikma         Which is, of course, impossible.
   06:29 ompaul         You can split the document and licence each part different, all you need to be is very clear about what you are posting.
   06:29 mako           i apologize for not being more actively involved in this discussion recently
   06:29 msikma         ompaul: explain. You mean post the image in a separate wikipage?
   06:29 Kamion         PROPOSAL: amend WikiLicensing to require implementation of some kind of licence markers in moin for individual pieces of content, and come up with a list of acceptable "free-ish" licences for wiki content from which people can choose; default remains as in the proposal (PD but with the wikimedia text to attempt to deal with internationalisation problems)
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   06:30 Kamion         msikma: ^--
   06:30 Kamion         licence markers would need to be selectable on posting
   06:30 msikma         Hmm
   06:30 msikma         Before I respond to that, let me make a second proposal.
   06:31 mhz            .oO(hmm, my only concern with licensing is that people do not use my contributions for commercial purposes unless they check with me first :) )
   06:31 Yagisan        Kamion: I like the idea, but as msikma points out, code, images etc may need a different license
   06:31 mako           Kamion: i'm still a little worried about going down that path because i think we're going to get a sort of highest common denominotor any any given article
   06:31 Kamion         mhz: that's kind of highly dubious for us since Canonical is a commercial concern
   06:32 Kamion         mhz: I think it's a little unreasonable to say that Canonical can't use
   06:32 mhz            yeah, but we all get 'profit' from it :D
   06:32 Kamion         it's still commercial
   06:32 mako           Kamion: if one person makes a series of simple changes to many articles and puts them under a more restrictive license, the PD thing becomes moot
   06:32 msikma         PROPOSAL: amend WikiLicensing to mention how all wikicode is released into the PD, which means that images are excluded (and targets of links posted in the wikicode, of course), and that this is not so in case another license is mentioned for specific pieces of content (such as code snippets and images).
   06:32 msikma         Of course, it should not be possible to license a normal wiki contribution into one of the non-PD licenses.
   06:32 mako           Kamion: but if we go that route, i'm happy to help propose a set of licenses that i'm more happy with
   06:32 msikma         It should be an exception only for code snippets and images, since those are usually already licensed.
   06:33 Kamion         msikma: there are people who find PD for their text equally unacceptable
   06:33 Kamion         e.g. Yagisan
   06:33 Kamion         (we've had other objections too)
   06:33 msikma         But then you'll have a potpourri of licenses that aren't compatible.
   06:33 Kamion         well, that's what we have now ...
   06:33 msikma         I believe that this exception should only and exclusively go for works that are already licensed.
   06:34 msikma         Your wikicontributions will be PD, but a GPL code that someone has written can only remain GPL.
   06:34 msikma         That's what I believe will cause the least confusion.
   06:34 Kamion         I think we'll have a number of valuable contributors say "well, screw you then"
   06:34 msikma         If some people disagree with the PD, then this should be brought up in a separate discussion.
   06:34 Yagisan        msikma: well then thanks for unilaterally relicensing my work
   06:35 msikma         Yagisan: I'd be fine with GFDL as well. I'd also be fine with licensing everything "after June 1" or something similar.
   06:35 Yagisan        msikma: there is a happy compromise. trhat is choice
   06:35 mhz            what if people NOT happy with current results of licensing have the chance to wipe out his contribs. from wiki?
   06:35 msikma         This isn't the license that I'm discussing, but rather the legal confusion that might arise.
   06:35 Kamion         msikma: many people who write a lot of documentation don't recognise that their work should be treated differently from code
   06:36 msikma         Kamion: again, I'd be fine with GFDL.
   06:36 msikma         I don't care about which free license is used.
   06:36 ompaul         Let us be very clear, PD means that if someone alters something then they can claim ownership and restrict access to that version. That means that someone could come to the page remove lots of the text there declare it immutable then where are you.
   06:36 msikma         I only care about the fact that there might be legal confusion if we try to license everything on the wiki.
   06:36 msikma         ompaul: that's not what this discussion is about. I understand the concerns, but let's address them in a separate discussion.
   06:37 Yagisan        msikma: the wiki was already licensed. It was a CC-BY-SA
   06:37 msikma         Then let's keep it that way.
   === Yagisan has the edubuntu wiki in mind
   06:37 msikma         But I doubt that it's a good idea to relicense everything under that license that's posted on the wiki.
   06:37 msikma         Especially for artwork discussions.
   06:38 jenda          It's not legally possible to relicense everything.
   06:38 Yagisan        msikma: as you say, some things like code, and images may need different licenses
   06:38 mako           msikma: i'd like to see a strong argument for artwork on the wiki being treated differently
   === pygi [] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   06:38 Mithrandir     let content dragged in from elsewhere (and with a source reference) to have a diverging licence, then?
   06:38 mako           msikma: not here
   06:38 mako           msikma: or now, but in writing
   06:38 mako           msikma: if one exists, please point me to it
   06:38 msikma         jenda: you can say that everything after a certain date is licensed differently, if that license is compatible with the old one.
   06:38 mako           msikma: otherwise, point me to it when it does
   06:39 msikma         mako: thing is, some people license their artwork under a license incompatible with BY-SA. Such as BY-SA-NC. You cannot relicense such works, even though the license notifier would imply such a thing if you were to post the image.
   06:39 msikma         The concern is the same with, for example, GFDL content or GPL code.
   06:40 msikma         I really wish that I could stay around longer, but my work stopped over half an hour ago and we're closing down the studio.
   06:40 msikma         I'm glad that I could voice my concerns and I hope that they'll be considered.
   06:41 msikma         I personally am fine with contributing under any free license.
   06:41 jenda          Exactly - but that would be solved by saying that all is licenced under license X unless stated otherwise.
   06:41 msikma         All I want is to avoid legal difficulties or confusion.
   06:41 elmo           umm, JOOI, how much GPL code do we have in the ubuntu wiki that isn't covered by fairuse?
   06:41 msikma         jenda: yes, but it would also need to be easy to mention a different license.
   06:41 elmo           I can understand the image/attachment concern, but embedding GPL code seems like a fairly, err, esoteric use case
   06:41 jenda          elmo: fairuse doesn't allow you to claim a different license
   06:42 mako           jenda: i don' think that is what he meant
   06:42 msikma         I'll talk to you later. Thanks for listening, and bye.
   06:42 elmo           jenda: fair use, in this context, means it's small enough to not be covered by the GPL
   06:42 Yagisan        elmo: what about embedding scripts ?
   06:44 jenda          Yes, but posting it in a wiki (which claims all content is PD or other) is violating the GPL, albeit on a tiny level. Anyway, I did'nt want to press the issue further. I think it would be solved if posters simply mentioned that the following snippet is GPL and the wiki only claimed PD 'when not otherwise'.
   06:44 Yagisan        I'm not sure if all counties have the same idea if fairuse either
   06:45 mako           alright
   06:45 mako           this discussion seems to have lost steam
   06:45 jsgotangco     Yagisan: i agree
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   06:46 Kamion         jenda: no matter what, I think "if not otherwise stated" is a sane approach
   06:46 jenda          I agree.
   06:47 Yagisan        I'm concerned. Is the mass-relicense to still go ahead ?
   06:47 jenda          And a reminder somewhere to mention external licences.
   06:48 mako           so, what's the protocal/plan for moving forward?
   06:48 Kamion         Yagisan: AIUI some mass change will still go ahead, but not steamrollering those who object (i.e. objections will be taken into account in some form, whether it be by choosing a different approach to mass-relicensing, or by creating individual exceptions, or by letting people create their own individual exceptions for bits of content)
   06:49 mhz            Kamion: +1 !
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   06:52 thierryn       ok, so is it all the arguments for this point?
   === Yagisan is happy with the ability to select an appropriate "free" license(s) depending on content. I understand canaonical may wish to use any documentation I've contributed, the existing license should allow that.
   === mhz is happy for Yagisan
   06:53 mhz            :)
   06:53 jenda          It seems everyone is happy, except for the Ubuntu IRC team...
   06:54 mhz            LOL
   06:54 mako           alright
   06:54 mako           lets move on
   06:54 thierryn       k
   06:54 mako           so
   06:54 mako           a number of IRC ops want a list to coordinate IRC related matters
   06:55 jenda          ping Seveas ompaul
   06:55 ompaul         that is correct
   06:55 mako           would it be open?
   06:55 Seveas         yes
   06:55 gnomefreak     yep
   06:55 ompaul         it has to be
   06:55 mako           well, it doesn't *have* to be
   06:55 mako           i mean, i think it should be :)
   06:55 Seveas         it would be for things-to-discuss-in-non-realtime
   06:55 ompaul         mako, point
   06:55 mako           open to posting and to subscription?
   06:56 Seveas         I'd prefer that
   06:56 eyequeue       (and archives?)
   06:56 Seveas         completely open, like any other community list
   06:57 gnomefreak     only thing about open is spamming how do we prevent it?
   06:57 Kamion         (sorry, I was away; we'll talk to mdke about the output of the previous discussion and try to get something concrete organised)
   06:57 Seveas         gnomefreak, subscription  required
   06:57 Kamion         gnomefreak: same as any other ubuntu lists
   06:57 gnomefreak     ok
   06:57 mako           Kamion: yes, that sounds right
   06:58 Kamion         I've got no problem with an ubuntu-irc list; elmo?
   06:59 Kamion         d'oh, elmo just walked out of the office
   06:59 Seveas         heh
   07:00 elmo           what's the policy on it?
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   07:00 elmo           open subscription, open archives, etc.?
   07:00 Seveas         elmo, as open as possible
   07:00 elmo           ok, then no problem
   07:01 mako           that sounds fine then
   07:01 eyequeue       can anyone raise reason for objections?  and is this for all #ubuntu-* channels on freenode? (scope)
   07:01 Seveas         eyequeue, twice yes
   07:02 eyequeue       i have no objections :) was wondering if others could think of any :)
   07:03 elmo           ok, next?
   07:04 Seveas         pschulz01 is next
   07:04 Seveas         (member candidate)
   === pschulz01 is here
   07:04 Seveas         pschulz01, your 3-liner please
   07:04 pschulz01      Please refer to my Wikipage,
   07:04 pschulz01      but in summary.
   07:04 pschulz01      Ubuntu Highlights: Handing out CD's at conference (sponsored by Linux
   07:04 pschulz01      Australia). Bug submissions to Dapper. Various Wikipages addition's edits.
   07:04 pschulz01      Working towards Ubuntu community tools/resourses for Australians.
   07:04 pschulz01      Linux Highlights: Involvement in LCA2004 (organiser). Small (trivial)
   07:04 pschulz01      patch accepted into Linux kernel.
   07:05 pschulz01      (Is that what you're after?)
   07:05 Seveas         sort of
   07:06 Seveas         reading wikipage now
   07:07 Kamion         heh, about half of the VmWare page just became obsolete
   07:07 elmo           any other .au team guys around/awake?
   === pschulz01 pokes #ubuntu-au
   07:07 shenki         hello :)
   07:08 elmo           shenki: can you bouche for pschulz?
   07:09 elmo           vouch too
   07:09 shenki         vouch? yes
   07:09 shenki         he's been getting in touch wiht the education department in the state where we live in, with intentions of getting ed(ubuntu) in local schools here
   07:09 elmo           pschulz01: how long have you been involved in Ubuntu?
   07:10 pschulz01      Since breezy..
   07:10 pschulz01      distributing, and promoting locally.
   07:11 mako           there's not a lot of documentation on the wiki
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   07:11 mako           which, if your contributions are mostly working with the loco teams, makes sense
   07:11 pschulz01      Spoke with Smurf about starting a Loco when he was in Canberra in 2005 for LCA.
   07:12 pschulz01      It has only recently taken off.
   07:12 Kamping_Kaiser i got asked to come and vouch, sorry i missed the first half
   07:12 jsgotangco     its good the see team AU awake at this time!
   07:12 Seveas         @now adelaid
   07:12 Seveas         @now adelaide
   07:12 Ubugtu         Current time in Australia/Adelaide: May 31 2006, 02:42:49 - Current meeting: Community Council
   07:12 shenki         oh? i thought we were boucheing... making the notch cut in the top (dexter) corner of a shield, to rest the lance when jousting
   07:13 pschulz01      I put together soem CD artwork for TheOpenCD 3.0.. which was used to distribute locally.
   07:14 mako           pschulz01: in terms of direct contribution to ubuntu, you only have 3 wiki pages on the wiki
   07:14 mako           and not a lot of visible activity on LP
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   07:15 mako           if your contributions are primarily through the loco, it would be good to have more people from the loco here to vouch for the work that you've been doing
   07:15 mako           they can be in writing, on the page
   === jenda mutters about 2 o'clock in the morning
   07:15 mako           maybe you can do that in the next couple weeks?
   07:15 Kamping_Kaiser mako, its between 3.15 and 1am here
   07:15 Kamping_Kaiser (depending on state)
   07:15 mako           Kamping_Kaiser: right, that's why i'm suggesting waiting until next meeting
   07:15 Yagisan        it's actually 3:30am here
   07:16 mako           next meeting will be earlier
   07:16 pschulz01      Happy to wait...
   07:16 shenki         mako, as someone who would be intrested in membership myself, what are you looking for? the wiki mentions 'contributions to the community', in what ways are you looking for?
   07:16 mako           shenki: wiki pages are fine, but i'd like to see more than three of them
   07:17 mako           shenki: high karma and a bunch of visible contributions to the bts work
   07:17 mako           lots of participation on mailing lists
   07:17 mako           patches, maintained packages
   07:17 mako           testimonials from events planned and executed
   07:17 mako           etc etc
   07:17 shenki         okay. do count?
   07:17 mako           shenki: yes
   07:17 mako           definitely
   07:17 shenki         cheers
   07:17 Kamping_Kaiser mako, so 'easily trackable' community stuff?
   07:17 mako           Kamping_Kaiser: if you can make the not easily trackable stuff also visible, that's fine too
   07:18 mako           we don't require easily trackable things
   07:18 mako           we just require documentation
   07:18 jenda          (but "I pray for Ubuntu every night" not good enough?)
   07:18 Kamping_Kaiser ok. thats fair.
   === shenki notes to take photos of beer drinking at launch party thurs
   07:18 mako           jenda: that's right
   07:18 Yagisan        mako: (after meeting if more appropriate) what about ubuntu based research projects ? eg sec work
   07:19 mako           Yagisan: that's fine, as long as its visible and directly benefits the community
   07:19 mako           and constitutes work on ubuntu
   07:19 Yagisan        mako: yeah. been working on it since UDU
   07:20 mako           alright
   07:20 mako           we should move on
   07:20 mako           unless pschulz01 or the other CC members object
   07:20 pschulz01      Please see top of my Wiki page for addition Wikipages that I have been working on..
   07:20 pschulz01
   07:20 mako           pschulz01: it's not a rejection, but i'd personally feel more comfortable with a little more documentation and testimonials
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   07:20 mako           pschulz01: i'm looking at that page
   07:21 pschulz01      In particuler:
   === mako nods
   07:22 mako           that's great :)
   === pschulz01 leaves membership in the hands of the CC.
   07:24 mhz            well, gotta go. Sorry. Bye all! Good luck to those 'waiting-to-become-approved'
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   07:25 thierryn       any other points for pschulz01?
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   07:26 shenki         just a point i'd like to make: he's one of the people un ubuntu-au taking lead
   07:27 shenki         for example, in the 'meeting' tonight, it was mostly school age kids - nothing wrong with that - but it degraded into a chat about what tv tuner cards people used
   07:27 mako           listen, i don't doubt that
   07:27 shenki         he's one of the more ...responsible (the right words dont come to mind at 3am:) ones
   07:27 mako           but that is exactly what we should have a set of testimonials saying
   07:28 mako           shenki: i'm glad you're here and it helps
   07:28 shenki         ok
   07:28 mako           shenki: but i'd like to see that from a few more people in the community
   07:28 mako           and especially from existing members
   07:28 shenki         yeah, i guess that's an issue... the ubunut-au 'comminuty' seems to be a majority the work of paul, after the inital excitement died down (unubut-au is only a few months old)
   07:29 pschulz01      I did send an email to jdub...
   07:29 shenki         but yeah, just thought those points needed to be made. see you at the next meeting :)
   07:29 mako           pschulz01: ok.. lets see if we can poke him
   07:29 mako           pschulz01: that would be very helpful
   07:29 mako           you can talk to me during the next couple weeks
   07:29 pschulz01      Ok.
   07:30 mako           we've already had the conversation so it should be simple once we build up a little more documentation
   07:30 mako           alright
   07:30 pschulz01      Thank you everyone for listening.
   07:30 thierryn       next pointt?
   07:31 mako           lets move on
   07:31 Seveas         next point is you thierryn
   07:31 thierryn       k
   07:32 thierryn       you can take a look at my wiki page :
   07:32 mako           we should try to pick up the pace
   07:32 mako           i need to leave soon
   07:32 thierryn       in general, I've been working with linux since around 2001.
   07:32 Seveas         how long have you been working on Ubuntu?
   07:32 thierryn       I'm using ubuntu since warty
   07:33 Kamion         any comments from MOTU/desktop folks on thierryn?
   07:33 seb128         he's around for some time and has some good willing
   07:33 thierryn       by working you mean helping with bugs?... I think around 1 year  or more
   07:33 seb128         I've review mostly small patches like desktop files fixing
   07:34 thierryn       I'm not a very experienced programmer so I try to fix simple bugs so that advanced programmers can work on important stuff
   07:34 thierryn       I'm also french-canadian so I'm sometime work on the french traduction
   === Seveas has to leave, by all
   07:34 thierryn       I sometimes*
   07:34 Seveas         by*
   07:35 Seveas         bye* (damn, something's stuck under the keyboard)
   07:35 thierryn       anything else you want to know?
   07:36 thierryn       I also packaged libfxscintilla for dapper
   07:36 mako           great
   07:37 mako           any other testimonials for thierryn
   07:37 mako           ?
   07:38 thierryn       make : well I don't really have anyone on the french team...
   07:38 thierryn       mako : there was siretart who had advocated my package but he couldn't be there today
   07:40 thierryn       mako : I'm poking LaserJock to come...
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   07:42 thierryn       LaserJock : hi
   07:42 LaserJock      hi thierryn
   07:42 bddebian       Awfully quiet in here for a meeting. :-)
   07:42 thierryn       LaserJock : if you could say some words about me I would be grateful
   07:42 LaserJock      now?
   07:42 thierryn       yeah
   07:43 thierryn       mako is waiting to get testimonials about me and my work for ubuntu
   07:43 LaserJock      ok
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   07:43 LaserJock      I've known thierryn for quite some time now
   07:44 bddebian       Are you SURE mako is here? :-)
   07:44 jenda          yes ;)
   07:44 LaserJock      he has helped out around -motu and has done quite a bit of work on the .desktop charge
   07:45 mako           yes, i'm here
   07:45 LaserJock      he seems to have a slow and steady approach to Ubuntu and I think he has been a pretty solid contributor to Universe
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   07:46 mako           alright
   07:46 bddebian       I have seen some of Thierry's desktop work as well
   07:46 mako           there's a decent amount of contributions over a long period of time
   07:46 mako           i'm happy with membership
   07:46 mako           elmo, Kamion: ?
   07:47 Kamion         yep, fine by me (sorry for inactivity, I'm busy with release testing here)
   07:47 mako           i need to run
   === eyequeue is here ... what now?
   07:48 thierryn       mako, kamion : thanks :D
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   07:48 Kamion         eyequeue missed out last time too, I think
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   07:48 eyequeue       Kamion, indeed
   07:49 mako           eyequeue: i've looked at your page
   07:49 Kamion         aha, but we can get sabdfl in
   07:49 eyequeue       mako, thanks
   07:49 mako           eyequeue: i see 3 bugs reported and not a lot of other things
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   07:50 mako           your link to the forum didn't work
   07:50 sabdfl         hi all
   07:50 elmo           (thierryn is fine by me too)
   07:50 Kamion         thierryn: could you visit pleasse?
   07:50 eyequeue       mako, those links there doesn't whow what they did when written? :(
   07:50 Kamion         please
   07:50 bddebian       Hello sabdfl
   07:50 mako           eyequeue: also, it seems a little irregular to have your real name set to Eye Queue on your key
   07:50 eyequeue       well, here's the 3line, though not sure how it helps
   07:50 eyequeue       Evangelical installs, Varied generalized support since January 2005 (irc/forums/wiki/telephone/offline), bug reports, overall attempts to honour Code of Conduct (even apart from Ubuntu-related matters) health permitting
   07:50 sabdfl         i'm tag-teaming mako, apparently :-)
   07:50 mako           unless that is, in fact, your legal name
   07:51 mako           sabdfl: yes, someone is delivering books cases to my home in half an hour, i should probalby be there
   07:51 eyequeue       mako, at this point in my life, i'm too vulnerable to former stalkers, can't open that up publically (though open to suggestions)
   07:52 mako           well, that's an interesting question
   07:52 eyequeue       mako, so basically i should just give up them?  i'm not a coder/artist/writer, i'm mostly bed-bound these days, so not sure how to document much
   07:52 mako           eyequeue: that's fine.. there are lots of ways to contribute
   07:53 mako           none of us here see very much of each other :)
   07:53 eyequeue       mostly it's been "hand-holding" if you know the term
   07:53 mako           that's fine, but we still documentation of that
   07:53 mako           through testimonials, etc
   07:53 mako           but i really need to run
   07:53 thierryn       Kamion : k, I went to the ubuntumembers join web page now I'm waiting approval
   07:53 sabdfl         eyequeue: the criteria for membership are deliberately defined in very broad terms to encourage varied kinds of contribution and participation
   07:54 mako           i'll leave this to sabdfl, Kamion, and elmo and trust them to make any decision
   07:54 mako           see you all!
   07:54 bddebian       Later mako
   07:54 sabdfl         eyequeue: we're pretty open to stories of how that contribution has been made, it just needs to be sustained and substantial
   07:54 eyequeue       i don't have any testimonials,. unless i start asking $ubuntu, which i've never seen there so would be weird i think
   07:54 ompaul         good luck mako
   07:54 sabdfl         cheers mako, see you in Paris
   07:54 gnomefreak     bye mako good luck
   07:55 sabdfl         eyequeue: in that case perhaps the best plan is to keep doing what you are doing, but keep a record of bits you contribute on your wiki page
   07:55 sabdfl         over time, that will turn into a sort of testimonial
   07:55 eyequeue       sabdfl, "helped foo today; helped bar today"?
   07:55 sabdfl         and in five to eight weeks, knock here again
   07:55 jenda          eyequeue: IRC logs, more like...
   07:56 sabdfl         sure, especially if you do so in public forums and can point to logs or co-contributors
   07:56 eyequeue       lol, i don't have the 8 weeks, but thanks
   07:56 sabdfl         eyequeue: it's not a race, ubuntu will be here forever, we hope ;-)
   07:56 gnomefreak     eyequeue: im always around if you need help with anything
   07:57 eyequeue       thanks for the offer gnomefreak
   07:57 gnomefreak     yw
   07:57 eyequeue       sabdfl, i hope it will too, and here's my chance for a public thank you for all you've done :)
   07:57 sabdfl         you are most welcome - thanks for your energy and contribution so far
   08:00 sabdfl         what's next?
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   08:01 eyequeue       i think that's the end of the meeting (per agenda at least)
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   08:02 gnomefreak     i think most of the CC is tied up with release testing
   08:02 sabdfl         ok thanks all
   08:03 sabdfl         hold firm - release shortly

MeetingLogs/CC_2006-05-30 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:18:39 by localhost)