MeetingLogs/CC_2006-06-27

CC_2006-06-27

=== jpatrick === elmo 04:02 azeem === Kamping_Kaiser 04:02 azeem === GazzaK 04:02 Kamion 04:02 jenda 04:03 azeem 04:03 azeem === 04:03 Kamion === 04:03 Kamion 04:04 jenda 04:04 sabdf1 04:04 Seveas 04:04 jsgotangco 04:04 rodarvus 04:04 Kamion 04:04 jjesse 04:04 Kamion 04:04 Hobbsee 04:04 gnomefreak === 04:04 imbrandon === 04:04 rob === 04:05 Seveas === === 04:05 sabdf1 04:06 sabdf1 04:06 Kamion 04:06 sabdf1 04:06 Kamion 04:06 sabdf1 === 04:07 ondrej === 04:07 Kamion 04:07 sabdf1 04:07 Kamion 04:08 Kamion === 04:08 sabdf1 === 04:09 Kamion === 04:09 Kamion === 04:10 rob 04:10 sabdf1 04:10 Kamion 04:10 Hobbsee 04:10 sabdf1 04:10 jsgotangco 04:10 Hobbsee 04:11 rob 04:11 sabdf1 04:11 YukiCuss 04:11 jsgotangco 04:11 Hobbsee 04:11 Hobbsee === 04:12 Kamion 04:12 Kamion 04:13 Hobbsee 04:13 rob 04:13 gnomefreak 04:13 Kamion 04:14 Kamion 04:14 Seveas 04:14 Hobbsee 04:14 simira 04:14 siccness 04:14 simira 04:14 rob 04:14 jbailey 04:14 jbailey 04:14 YukiCuss 04:14 Hobbsee 04:14 Kamion 04:14 simira === 04:15 Hobbsee 04:15 Kamion === 04:15 simira 04:15 Kamion 04:16 Kamion 04:16 Seveas 04:16 simira 04:16 simira 04:16 simira 04:16 Kamion 04:16 rob 04:17 gnomefreak 04:17 sabdf1 04:17 sabdf1 04:17 sabdf1 === 04:17 sabdf1 04:17 jsgotangco 04:17 Kamion 04:17 Hobbsee 04:17 Kamion 04:17 Kamion 04:18 sabdf1 04:19 sabdf1 04:19 Kamion 04:19 Kamion 04:19 rob === 04:20 Kamion 04:20 Kamion 04:20 sabdf1 04:20 Kamion 04:20 sabdf1 04:21 thoreauputic 04:21 thoreauputic 04:21 Kamion === 04:22 Kamion 04:23 simira === 04:23 Kamion 04:23 Seveas 04:24 Kamion 04:24 ogra_ibook 04:25 Seveas 04:25 Kamion 04:26 sabdf1 04:26 Kamion 04:26 ogra_ibook 04:26 Kamion 04:26 sabdf1 04:26 ogra_ibook 04:26 sabdf1 04:26 Kamion 04:26 sabdf1 04:27 elmo 04:27 ogra_ibook 04:28 Kamion 04:28 Kamion 04:28 ogra_ibook 04:29 elmo 04:29 sabdf1 04:29 sabdf1 04:29 jenda 04:29 jsgotangco 04:29 imbrandon 04:29 sabdf1 04:29 Seveas 04:29 sabdf1 === 04:30 Seveas 04:30 robotgeek 04:30 imbrandon 04:30 Kamion 04:30 Kamion 04:30 rob 04:30 Kamion 04:30 lucychili 04:31 jjesse 04:31 sabdf1 04:31 sabdf1 04:31 Hobbsee 04:31 Hobbsee 04:32 rob 04:32 Seveas 04:32 imbrandon 04:32 imbrandon 04:32 Hobbsee 04:32 ompaul 04:32 gnomefreak 04:32 simira 04:32 apokryphos 04:32 ompaul 04:32 thoreauputic 04:32 apokryphos 04:32 rob 04:32 sabdf1 04:32 Hobbsee 04:32 gnomefreak 04:32 rob 04:32 imbrandon 04:33 apokryphos 04:33 simira 04:33 Seveas 04:33 simira 04:33 Hobbsee 04:33 ompaul 04:33 thoreauputic 04:33 simira 04:33 Kamion === 04:34 sabdf1 04:34 Kamion 04:34 imbrandon 04:34 robotgeek 04:34 simira 04:34 jjesse 04:34 Hobbsee 04:34 Seveas 04:34 rob 04:34 Kamion 04:34 sabdf1 04:34 sabdf1 04:35 simira 04:35 YukiCuss 04:35 jenda 04:35 apokryphos 04:35 Seveas 04:35 ogra_ibook 04:35 apokryphos 04:35 simira 04:35 jjesse 04:35 ogra_ibook 04:35 elmo 04:35 sabdf1 04:35 sabdf1 04:35 sabdf1 04:35 rob 04:35 YukiCuss 04:35 sabdf1 04:35 Seveas 04:35 elmo 04:35 sabdf1 04:36 ompaul 04:36 sabdf1 === 04:36 Kamion 04:36 Seveas 04:36 apokryphos 04:36 sabdf1 04:37 Seveas 04:37 Seveas 04:37 apokryphos 04:37 sabdf1 04:38 sabdf1 04:38 Seveas 04:38 sabdf1 04:38 sabdf1 04:38 sabdf1 04:38 jsgotangco 04:38 sabdf1 04:39 sabdf1 === 04:39 sabdf1 04:39 sabdf1 04:39 simira === 04:40 sabdf1 04:40 sabdf1 04:40 sabdf1 === 04:40 sabdf1 === 04:41 sabdf1 04:41 sabdf1 04:41 sabdf1 04:41 sabdf1 04:41 sabdf1 04:41 sabdf1 04:42 sabdf1 04:42 sabdf1 04:42 sabdf1 04:42 Kamion 04:42 sabdf1 04:42 jjesse 04:43 Riddell 04:43 Hobbsee 04:43 sabdf1 04:43 Hobbsee 04:43 Kamion 04:43 sabdf1 04:43 sabdf1 04:43 sabdf1 04:43 sabdf1 04:44 elmo 04:44 sabdf1 04:44 elmo 04:44 Kamion 04:44 sabdf1 04:44 sabdf1 04:44 simira 04:44 Seveas 04:44 sabdf1 04:44 imbrandon 04:44 sabdf1 04:45 sabdf1 04:45 Kamion 04:45 sabdf1 04:45 Kamion 04:45 sabdf1 04:45 Kamion 04:45 Hobbsee 04:46 Hobbsee 04:46 sabdf1 04:46 sabdf1 04:46 sabdf1 04:46 sabdf1 04:47 sabdf1 04:47 simira 04:47 Hobbsee 04:47 Kamion 04:47 sabdf1 04:47 Riddell 04:48 Hobbsee 04:48 sabdf1 04:48 Kamion 04:48 Hobbsee 04:48 simira 04:48 Kamion 04:48 Kamion 04:48 Kamion 04:48 Kamion 04:48 sabdf1 04:48 sabdf1 04:48 simira 04:48 sabdf1 04:48 apokryphos === 04:48 Hobbsee 04:48 sabdf1 04:49 ogra_ibook 04:49 sabdf1 04:49 sabdf1 04:49 sabdf1 04:49 elmo 04:49 sabdf1 04:49 imbrandon 04:50 ogra_ibook 04:50 sabdf1 04:50 Seveas === 04:50 Hobbsee === 04:50 elmo 04:51 elmo 04:51 ogra_ibook 04:51 elmo === 04:52 Seveas 04:52 Seveas 04:52 Hobbsee 04:52 sabdf1 04:52 jjesse 04:52 Seveas 04:53 Seveas === 04:53 Seveas 04:54 YukiCuss 04:54 Seveas 04:54 YukiCuss 04:54 YukiCuss === 04:54 YukiCuss 04:55 YukiCuss 04:55 Kamion 04:55 YukiCuss 04:55 YukiCuss 04:55 Kamion 04:56 YukiCuss 04:56 sabdf1 === 04:57 Seveas 04:57 sabdf1 04:57 Hobbsee 04:57 Seveas === 04:57 YukiCuss 04:57 sabdf1 04:57 siccness 04:57 Kamion 04:57 Kamion === 04:57 YukiCuss 04:58 YukiCuss 04:58 Kamion 04:58 Kamion 04:58 YukiCuss 04:58 Hobbsee 04:58 YukiCuss 04:59 YukiCuss 04:59 YukiCuss 04:59 YukiCuss 05:00 YukiCuss === 05:00 gnomefreak === 05:00 YukiCuss 05:00 YukiCuss 05:00 Seveas === 05:00 YukiCuss 05:00 Seveas 05:01 YukiCuss 05:01 Seveas 05:01 YukiCuss === 05:01 Seveas 05:02 YukiCuss 05:02 YukiCuss 05:02 Kamion 05:02 YukiCuss 05:02 YukiCuss === 05:04 Kamion 05:04 YukiCuss 05:04 shenki 05:06 YukiCuss 05:06 Seveas 05:06 Kamion 05:06 Kamion 05:06 YukiCuss 05:08 Kamion 05:08 Kamion 05:08 Kamion 05:08 YukiCuss 05:08 YukiCuss 05:08 05:08 YukiCuss 05:09 === 05:09 lukketto 05:10 Seveas 05:10 lukketto 05:10 Seveas 05:10 Kamion 05:10 Seveas 05:10 Kamion 05:11 elmo 05:11 Kamion 05:11 Kamion 05:11 YukiCuss === 05:11 YukiCuss 05:11 lucychili 05:11 Seveas 05:11 05:11 jjesse 05:11 Kamion 05:11 rodarvus 05:11 Kamion 05:12 Seveas 05:12 Seveas 05:12 Seveas 05:12 Seveas 05:12 lukketto 05:12 Seveas 05:12 lukketto 05:12 Seveas 05:12 Seveas 05:12 lukketto 05:12 Seveas 05:13 lukketto 05:13 ompaul 05:13 Seveas 05:13 Kamion === 05:13 Seveas 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda 05:14 jenda === === 05:15 robotgeek 05:15 gnomefreak 05:15 Seveas 05:16 jjesse 05:16 Kamion 05:16 Seveas 05:16 Seveas === 05:16 05:16 ondrej === 05:17 Kamion 05:17 nixternal 05:17 nalioth 05:17 Kamion 05:17 jenda 05:17 ondrej 05:17 Kamion 05:18 nixternal 05:18 jenda 05:18 ondrej 05:18 jenda 05:18 jjesse 05:18 nixternal 05:18 nixternal 05:18 05:18 gnomefreak 05:19 ptomes 05:19 Kamion 05:19 Seveas 05:19 Seveas 05:19 Kamion 05:19 elmo 05:19 Hobbsee 05:19 Seveas 05:19 nixternal 05:19 matthewrevell 05:19 jenda 05:19 Seveas 05:19 jjesse 05:19 gnomefreak 05:19 05:20 nixternal 05:20 imbrandon 05:20 rodarvus 05:20 nixternal 05:20 05:20 lucychili === 05:20 Seveas 05:20 nalioth 05:20 Seveas 05:21 ptomes 05:21 Seveas 05:22 Seveas 05:22 lukketto 05:22 lukketto 05:23 lukketto 05:23 lukketto === 05:24 Kamion 05:24 lukketto 05:24 Seveas 05:24 lukketto 05:24 lukketto 05:24 Kamion 05:25 ogra 05:25 lukketto 05:25 lukketto 05:25 Seveas 05:26 ogra 05:26 Seveas 05:27 lukketto 05:27 ogra 05:28 ogra 05:28 lukketto === 05:29 ogra 05:29 Seveas 05:29 lukketto 05:29 lukketto 05:29 lukketto 05:29 jsgotangco === 05:29 ogra 05:30 lukketto 05:30 lukketto 05:30 05:30 Seveas 05:30 lukketto 05:31 jjesse 05:31 lukketto 05:31 Kamion 05:32 Kamion 05:32 lukketto 05:32 lukketto 05:32 lukketto 05:33 Kamion 05:33 Seveas 05:33 Kamion 05:33 Seveas 05:34 ompaul 05:34 Kamion 05:34 Seveas 05:34 Kamion 05:34 ompaul 05:35 lukketto 05:36 Kamion 05:36 Seveas 05:36 Kamion 05:36 Kamion 05:37 Kamion 05:37 lifeless 05:37 Kamion 05:37 Seveas 05:37 Ubugtu === 05:38 lukketto 05:38 Kamion 05:38 YukiCuss 05:39 Kamion 05:39 Seveas 05:39 Kamion 05:39 Kamion 05:39 lukketto 05:40 Seveas 05:40 Kamion 05:40 Kamion 05:40 ogra 05:41 Hobbsee === 05:41 Seveas 05:41 Hobbsee === 05:42 Seveas === 05:43 lukketto 05:44 Seveas 05:44 rodarvus 05:44 rodarvus 05:44 rodarvus 05:44 rodarvus 05:44 Seveas 05:44 rodarvus 05:44 ogra 05:44 ogra 05:45 ogra 05:45 ogra 05:45 ogra 05:45 rodarvus 05:45 jjesse 05:45 gnomefreak === 05:45 jsgotangco 05:45 rodarvus 05:45 rodarvus 05:45 ogra 05:46 ogra === 05:46 Seveas 05:46 rodarvus 05:46 jsgotangco 05:47 ogra 05:47 ogra 05:47 Kamion 05:47 Ubugtu 05:48 ogra 05:48 Seveas 05:48 Kamion 05:49 Seveas 05:49 Kamion 05:49 rodarvus 05:49 ogra === === 05:50 jsgotangco 05:50 Kamion === 05:50 ogra 05:50 rodarvus 05:50 Kamion 05:51 rodarvus 05:51 Kamion 05:52 rodarvus 05:52 Kamion 05:52 rodarvus 05:52 Seveas 05:52 Seveas 05:52 elmo 05:52 Seveas 05:52 rodarvus 05:52 Seveas 05:52 jsgotangco 05:52 ogra 05:52 ogra 05:52 gnomefreak 05:52 Kamion 05:53 Seveas 05:53 rodarvus 05:53 ogra 05:53 Kamion 05:53 Seveas === 05:53 Kamion 05:53 Seveas 05:53 rodarvus 05:54 rodarvus 05:54 Seveas 05:54 Kamion 05:54 Kamion 05:54 Seveas 05:54 elmo 05:55 Kamion 05:55 elmo 05:55 Kamion 05:55 elmo 05:55 Kamion === === === === 05:56 jenda 05:56 Kamion 05:56 Seveas 05:56 jenda 05:56 Kamion 05:56 elmo 05:56 Hobbsee 05:56 Kamion 05:56 elmo 05:57 jenda 05:57 elmo 05:57 Hobbsee 05:57 Kamion 05:57 Seveas 05:57 Kamion 05:57 elmo 05:58 Kamion 05:58 Kamion 05:58 Hobbsee 05:58 Seveas === === === 05:59 jenda 05:59 Seveas 05:59 Seveas 05:59 Kamion 05:59 Seveas 06:00 Seveas

Meeting id="line-3">

   04:00 Kamion         just attempting to round up the other CC members now [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [n=james@83-216-156-21.jamest747.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I think mako might be on a plane [n=kgoetz@easyubuntu/docteam/KampingKaiser/x-3453498] has joined #ubuntu-meeting back to the US; not sure though [n=Gary@81.130.170.65] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I forgot to check when he was flying back, it's true and the sabdfl? 11:46 < mako> i'm off! that's CEST robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I believe he should be around unless the brief UTC/local time confusion we had with his scheduling was worse than I thought sabdf1 [n=mark@195.58.90.162] has joined #ubuntu-meeting aha ah :) hi all hi hi hi there ok, we're ready to go then morning :) first item is Listiquette hi all hi robitaille think we should schedule these meetings a bit more in advance... hi jenda agrees heh nixternal +1 @topic ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting apologies for that we are being pretty good about spreading the timezones around, though it was a bit confused this time round due to my vacation and the intervening conferences so, listiquette we'll try to do the next one properly the forums guys have a very good set of guidelines ondrej [n=ondrej@ubuntu/member/ondrej] has joined #ubuntu-meeting mm all jbailey [n=jbailey@195.58.90.162] has joined #ubuntu-meeting most of the ones mdke suggested are pretty mailing-list-specific http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php?faq=policy (apart from the CoC and topic-ness stuff at the top) mdke said he can't make it to this meeting unfortunately, but I think we should be able to discuss it in his absence elkbuntu [n=melissa@203-206-255-153.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting i have a slow connection here at the LP sprint Davo_Dinkum [n=Davo_Din@c211-28-142-55.sunsh3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting ok, perhaps it would be possible to merge some of the "general policy" stuff from the forums guidelines siccness [n=j00b@CPE-138-217-3-129.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting although the forums have different problems they encounter in practice that they're trying to address, so probably not verbatim lucychili [n=jhawtin@ppp224-242.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I think most of the things on the Listiquette page just come down to common sense on behalf of its users hmm.. html fascism Listiquette seems to be a pretty good start, so best-of-both should be fine ah, we're supposed to reply underneath.  gotcha. i can't do FT-yellow in plain text! heh um, FT-yellow? good question Hobbsee: what's your email address? Hobbsee: the background colour he uses in his mail, I think. he likes sending email in yellow background or something...' sabdf1: hobbsee@kubuntu.org YukiCuss: ah right jsgotangco saw it in his laptop with the exception of the "uses more bandwidth" bit, in practice I don't think I'd bother arguing the point as long as a plain-text alternate part was supplied (re html) Kamion: dont text-based clients not display html, and therefore leave a whole lot of rubbish around the actual text message?  i've never tried it just one questing regarding the subject line though, from some locations where I read and want to reply to the mailing list I'm forced to modify the subject line so that the email passes though the gateway, any thoughts on the best way to get around this without breaking threads? are the forums an Ubuntu-official forum or the content as far as "good pratices" not really controled? Hobbsee: depends on the client, but anything that supports MIME (and nowadays most should) will display a preferred alternate part so they'd display a text alternate rob, most clients look at the In-reply-to header, not the subject line Kamion: ah right.  like i say, i dont use mutt, etc how mutts nice :) uhm... when was this cc announced? Seveas, ok (except my Outlook at work) :( sabdfl has fallen off the Internet He'll be back in a sec. simira: too late. simira: few hours ago Hobbsee: mutt can display HTML, but I prefer to disable that because I haven't looked at its HTML decoding code in any detail and it seems likely to me that there might be vulnerabilities there that spammers could exploit heh mindspin [n=mindspin@pD95FFE57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Kamion: right simira: not long enough ago. sorry. we did this at the start of the meeting ptomes [n=Administ@ip-89-102-53-104.karneval.cz] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] Kamion: I just checked in on irc. Is it much left? rob: Outlook (well, Express at least) was never really designed to cope with Internet mail as opposed to corporate mail - but anything designed for Internet mail will be fine with in-reply-to/references threading simira: we've only just started simira, meeting just started, still at listiquette ah, great (I wouldn't have made dinner though, if I knew ;p ) gnomefreak: see the link sabdfl quoted, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php?faq=policy I can live with it, but I have had complaints about it breaking threads from other users Kamion: yeah i was looking at that when changing the subject, is it reasonable to start a new thread? in other words, compose a new message rather than replying to the thread? i'm happy with mdke's drafts, and also happy to say to him "look over the forums guidelines and pull in anything you think is relevant" ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting erk, sorry yeah sabdf1: I find it a bit difficult to follow discussions if people do that too much, personally (sabdf1: heh, right.  rainbow or something would make it more interesting :P) it can make sense if it's a total tangent and the thread is already quite deep, though i.e. judgement call IMO Kamion: if they are changing the topic, do you prefer to see that in the same thread with new topic, or new thread? i'm ambivalent, but thought i'd ask what the best practice is

damn, sorry, unfamiliar keyboard common sense again, I think robotgeek [i=venkat@ubuntu/member/robotgeek] has joined #ubuntu-meeting sabdf1: well, depends, sometimes changing the Subject: header is just a minor correction; if it's off onto a wildly different topic and there's not much to be gained from the previous quoted context then a new thread can make sense I'd hesitate to try to lay down a rule either way ok, i don't think we need to address that then. there's a specific problem mdke's trying to address there should we do a whip around the CC and see up or down how people feel about the document then? thread hijacking is an annoyance recent examples on the users list which is that some mailing list clients are badly behaved and tend to follow up with "RE: blah" or "SV: blah" as a new thread, or that sometimes people don't understand their mail client's reply vs. new message functions darkmatter_ [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-77.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting we can just annotate that sometimes a new thread makes sense if you're changing the topic and the old one's got too long and convoluted though *shrug* agree on that Meyer is Mario Meyer sabdf1: what you said, I think it's a pretty sensible start and can be fleshed out a bit with selected stuff from the forums guidelines. It'd have to go in the "hello, you just joined this mailing list" mail if we want to have any expectation that even some people might read it though The listiquette page could be linked in the standard mailman footer that too, if there's reasonable space there why was it renamed btw ? it used to be ListiQuette because it's only one word pwehaps... ogra_ibook: that's pretty silly capitalisation considering that it's derived from the English word etiquette we should like to both this and the forums from the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct ListEtiquette might be easier for non-English speakers to grok Kamion, well, i tried to use a wiki compliant title ogra_ibook: single words are still wiki-compliant +1 on ListEtiquette yeah, sounds way better but they do need special linking -fu (actually the etymology is indirect via netiquette, but never mind) elmo: ? fine by me Kamion, what i'm bothered about is that since i created ListiQuette there were many people linking to it, it apparently got renamed without forwarding ogra_ibook: ok, somebody should do a simple search/replace then or stick a forwarding page in i dont care how its called now since i didnt touch it over a year, but the links should be preserved ogra_: so why don't you just add a forwarding page?  it's really not a big deal? ok, +1 from me and elmo can you auto-forward in Moin? yep yes yea ok lots of pages do that thanks everyone :-) ogra_ibook looks how to do that ##redirect infact the wiki move is thanks to #redirect :) ogra_ibook, #redirect <newpage> so, sabdfl has to go RSN and I don't really want to do the IRC network thing in a hurry / without sabdfl's input plus sabdfl has the art council thing he wants to talk about no go on the IRC thing then? does anyone mind if we table the IRC network item for next meeting? sounds cool i don't i'm happy to abstain from the irc network discussion would be good to have ops input so i'll ask seveas to speak-but-not-vote in my stead better to wait and see if freenode stabilises a bit before having that discussion sabdf1: a lot of ops are around tonight, i believe. it always was stable :) I summarized my pov on this topic on http://wiki.kaarsemaker.net/UbuntuOnFreenode most are here rob: right, except when it's being hacked, yes :P I +1 Seveas here is the rest of ubuntu channels moving network? =) Hobbsee, no other networks get attacked I also +1 Seveas simira: no, that's just a topic of discussion. Hobbsee, Freenode is a pretty big target compared to other networks ompaul: that's just a matter of time rob: i realise that I +1 Seveas also we have around 30,000 users +1 on Seveas POV all the reasons on that wiki say it, really ah I'm curious, why was this placed on the agenda? Seveas: to have some community input? my comment was more "people are more likely to say "get away from freenode" seeing as there was the attack a few days ago, and it's fresh on their minds" sabdf1, woops on my part, misread Hobbsee's comment plus freenode is the default OSS network - most people expect to find us here I know I have strong feelings for staying on frenode Seveas: mdz put it there; I believe it came up at the conference and he dumped it in here highvoltage [n=jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting we should not jump just because of a single attack but I didn't notice it until after leaving the conference, so I didn't ask him about it sabdf1, exactly, that will happen anywhere even ubuntu had a security issue, we did not stop using it :) sabdf1: agreed i like what Seveas wrote on his wiki page, it makes sense not to jump sabdf1: of course, but that's probably what's on a lot of people's minds right now. robotgeek, nice argument Seveas, +1 on UbuntuOnFreenode it's perhaps worth noting that Ubuntu now has enough IRC users that us moving to a different network would make that network rather larger :-) unless we believe that freenode is irresponsible and liable to be more susceptible as a result and more of a target I am on three of four networks, and freenode is definitely the best, imo Kamion: it would also be a bit of an issue getting everyone current across. does anyone believe so? Kamion: exactly, as someone mentioned: oftc has 4000 users Kamion, if all ubuntu users moved to oftc for instance, it would grow 25% - that WILL cause problems according to HedgeMage who is available in #edubuntu in her awake times it were ~20 passwords i dont think that justifies a move we have well over 1000 in all ubuntu-related channels three _or_ four think of all of the changes that would have to be made if we moved networks, all of the refrences that are in documenation etc to freenode (HedgeMage is freenode staff) YukiCuss: not really - Debian recently did it i'm +1 on seveas' document, can we jump to a different topic? i unfortunately need to head to dublin in a few minutes well sabdf1, we are working hard to stay one step ahead of the hackers elmo: ! i think i will love dublin sabdf1, sounds good to me Seveas: no it wouldn't, not if we're sure to check with them in advance but i will miss part of this meeting sabdf1, you talking today? ompaul: tomorrow. writing the speech tonight :-/ Davo_Dinkum [n=Davo_Din@c211-28-142-55.sunsh3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] Seveas: (that's assuming that no Ubuntu users are currently on OFTC, which isn't true, but ok) Next topic (if no one objects on moving on) is locoteams Kamion: there's around 20 r so last time I checked Seveas: i put another item on the general list ah, *refreshes* art council 12 now, in fact ok, just a brief update the art list has been very active yeah, it came out of deep freeze in the last months things picked up in the rush to dapper, so we were not able to harness much of that energy for the last release but we had good participation in the latest dev summit in paris and i'm optimistic we can get good participation in edgy yay participation == learning, mentoring, and some rough edges no doubt anyhow, here's (roughly) the structure we are working towards dinda [n=dinda@cpe-72-181-83-200.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting an arts council, appointed by the CC much like the CC is working with the forums to be involved in the appointment of the forums admins sounds good ptomes [n=Administ@ip-89-102-53-104.karneval.cz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting once that is in place and well proven we will delegate some membership-recognition fu to them so artists making a sustained and substantial contribution to ubuntu can get membership through the arts council rather than directly through the CC which will be good, because we have people making good constributions and not getting recognised lukketto [n=lukketto@host60-37.pool871.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting each release will also get a set of artists-in-chief lukketto [n=lukketto@host60-37.pool871.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] we have appointed frank schoep for ubuntu for edgy, and ken wimer for kubuntu for edgy we will rotate those positions to ensure new blood gets a chance to lead and to learn how to interact with the distro a-i-c's are responsible for interfacing to the distro dev teams they will attend distro meetings they will also be responsible for the default "look and feel" of their release and will work with canonical on things like packaging for cd's / dvd's etc they will lead a "theme team" for the default theme in that release human in the case of ubuntu edgy will the a-i-c be appointed by the art council in future, or do you intend to reserve judgement on that particular appointment? i forget what it's called for kubuntu edgy crystal? we're currently considering "Kubuntu Face" sabdf1: crystal/polyester i've appointed the a-i-c's, and we should plan to continue to keep tight reign on that, but with arts council input i think. right the a-i-c's are part time jobs with funding from canonical so we can reasonably expect consistent attendance and coverage then, there will be additional theme teams so that we work on a diversity of themes does this mean we'll have less lastminute.com-ing on artwork? each theme will get a leader (the a-i-c's lead the default themes) :-P ah, for a funded position that appointment policy makes perfect sense elmo: almost certainly not :-) but we'll see! sabdf1: I think this sounds really good "THIS IS NOT THE FINAL ARTWORK" so, folks who don't like the default theme are welcome to join alternative theme teams lol or start new ones this way, there's room for the tangoista's we're still debating how the distro team meetings are going to work for Edgy (Ian's collating input on useful timezones) and the tangerinists but both Frank and Ken are in fairly central timezones so it seems unlikely that that would present a problem we want to have a set of themes in edgy that covers high-speed-low-complexity, high-contrast-for-accessibility, etc going to work> with regard to scheduling I mean on artwork, was the decision to have the same theme across kubuntu/ubuntu/xubuntu, just in different colours, implemented?  I never heard the final decision on that. (sorry if it's too offtopic) right now the art guys (troy sobotka leading) are organising nominations for the arts council and the cc will be asked to appoint them in the next week or two so folks who are interested - please go over to the art team list and participate any concerns, issues or questions? sorry, i've been winging it a little on this one but i think it's off to a reasonable start and i wanted to get balls rolling can we get noticed earlier for the next cc? sabdf1: my question above, if it's not too offtopic "balls will roll"> sounds painful Hobbsee: no, wehave an official policy of independence Hobbsee: I don't think kubuntu or xubuntu want to see that sabdf1: excellent!  :D the a-i-c's are absolutely NOT required to enforce any consistency simira: we covered that at the start of the meeting Riddell: *exactly* Kamion: ah. sorry. 15:05 < sabdf1> apologies for that 15:06 < sabdf1> we are being pretty good about spreading the timezones around, though 15:06 < Kamion> it was a bit confused this time round due to my vacation and the intervening conferences 15:06 < Kamion> we'll try to do the next one properly of course we expect them to learn from one another and spread the best ideas but we want the KDE folks to feel like Kubuntu is *Genuine KDE* lol and the same for the Gnome and XFCE guys with Ubuntu and Xubuntu exactly imbrandon nods * hehe good there are some places that bitesus "collaboration to the *core*" :) like the bug reports from folks with both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed who wonder why oo.o went blue but maybe we can find nice solutions to those too, one by one (they should probably just conflict?) any other issues? elmo, no elmo, careful, dont let Keybuk read that :) elmo: some folks might run a thin client server with users who have their own login prefs elmo, not if you don't want keybuk to chase you with a large pointy stick jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-meeting hehe - but who *doesnt* want to be chased with a long pointy stick? nixternal :) Seveas/ogra: you're thinking of something else keybuk gets annoyed about misuse of conflicts where replaces is better elmo, i'm thinking of my battle with the screensavers ... but sabdfl's right, conflicting isn't a good idea darkmatter_ [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-77.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] anything else or shall we move on? *silence* move on ok i guess that means move on :) yeah did any of the locoteam leaders make it today? YukiCuss raises hand. YukiCuss, ok, good to see at least one seeing no one else, shall i go then? yeah, please do okay! basically, i'm here just to give a progress update on the Australian team. bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting we've become more of an `active' team, and are here as part of a wish to be an `official' (recognised) team. we've been having regular fortnightly meetings for about 3~4 months, in a self-regulating manner. I thought we recognised the .au team a while back there was no official decision on that, so i have understood. i spoke to Matthias Ulrichs about it, and he said that we were proposed until we next turned up and discussed it. give me a moment to dig at the moment, we're still here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList , on `proposed'. i need to step afk now. seveas, could you stand in my place for the member discussions? we'll give elmo the casting vote if needed Ckenyon [n=chrisken@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-meeting sabdf1, will do, thanks! ok, i'll review the log later bye sabdf1 and have fun in eire! jenda waves nervously have fun mark! thanks all see you again soon Catcha perhaps I'm wrong; I can't find it in the logs, so I'll assume smurfix is correct bye Mark nalioth [n=nalioth@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.nalioth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Kamion: *nods* shall i continue a review of our activity, then? pleased do s/d// sure. jenda: dont worry, youv'e got ages to wait so, we've been having an active IRC channel, over the course of which we've been supporting local users who have been asking for help. as with our mailing list, where we've been discussing local matters. such matters include the recent government legislation that has come into review, which could affect FOSS in Australia. our members are fairly active contributors to ubuntu, including Ubuntu Members itself. (from the team here now includes elkbuntop, Kamping_Kaiser, siccness, Hobbsee, thoreauputic and lucychili (!)) shenki clears throat lol Kamping_Kaiser giggles and shenki! dear me. we've also been compiling lists of local vendors who support (or do NOT support) Ubuntu, YukiCuss, that is a really good initiative Hobbsee would not be confident to speak for the team, having not been there much. and ones who do or do not agree to ship without Microsoft products. in NL we're going to do the same soon neat! :) would be nice to share some experiences (but not in this meeting) there's also been emails going back and forth to PC magazines about including Ubuntu, such as APC (arguably one of the most famous ones around here). jenda notes that. Would be a great thing to do here (or everywhere) YukiCuss, sounds like -au is doing a great job we're operating smoothly! ^_^ we have a nice community spirit, overcoming a few hurdles in the past few fortnights. YukiCuss: how are you linked with Linux Australia, if at all? and there've been a few (physical) meetups including the Dapper release parties. Kamion: we have no official connection with Linux Australia, but we do have members who are also members (or active contributors) to L.A. sabdf1 [n=mark@195.58.90.162] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] nod so, that's the summary of some of our past activities. (since we last attended, or so!) Kamion: linux australia has been conducting an awareness campaign and petition regarding local DRM laws, something which we discussed at our meeting tonight about  getting involved with if we could manage it, having backing from a company or companies (local ones, as well as Canonical) would help turn the tides with regards to these proposals. anyone have a question for YukiCuss ? ok, from some of the roster of members I doubt you'll have a problem (as locoteam) *nods* the local CD distribution thing is a very useful initiative to take some of the strain off shipit thank you for that do you know if Peter's going to be updating that to dapper? well, we've had quite a few members partaking in that! i hope that he will be, but i haven't been able to get in contact with him very recently. Kamping_Kaiser Kamion, we dont have many dappers yet ;) he has been doing an excellent job, though. Kamping_Kaiser absolutely lukketto [n=lukketto@host60-37.pool871.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Hi! hi lukketto, we'll get to member candidates soon OK, thank you! Kamion, do we need votes on ubuntu-au? ok, if there are no more questions for Yuki, I move that we approve ubuntu-au seconded elmo: ? +1 YukiCuss: ok, go ahead and get in touch with smurfix for whatever you need there thanks alright! ^_^ shenki cheers thank you very much! \o/ congratz! Kamping_Kaiser yay. congrats any other locoteam folks here? congratulations :) for those on the agenda going down in 3 2 1 ok, member candidates Hi everybody! Rolando Blanco / whitesoft? I'm Luca Gervasio are you around? lukketto, please wait your turn sorry! np :) Seveas, ask again methinks no whitesoft in sight jenda: here? jenda raises his hand jenda, that means you're up - please give us your 3-liner here it comes: I'm a Law student in Prague, Czech Republic. Through Free Software and Ubuntu, I have developed an interest in intellectual property law (my mind probably follows similar lines to the Piratbyran). Within Ubuntu, I have joined and supported the Easyubuntu Team ever since it's (re)birth, I have revived the Marketing Team two months ago and we will have our first meeting here tomorrow. I've also been active with the New User Network and on my own exploring what this project could look to do in the future. Most recently, I've begun helping the Czech community get up and get together in several things - the IRC channel, translating the CoC and a lot more, and of course, local marketing. I made a speech about the localisation of Ubuntu to the local OpenSolaris-UG, which ondrej couldn't make it to. My wiki page describes in more detail: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JendaVancura I'll take this opportunity to ping some of those that might be able to testify on my activity: ondrej, robotgeek, nalioth, ompaul, gnomefreak, silbs, nixternal, ptomes, eek... that's a three page three liner, sorry ;) nixternal is here ondrej is here as well from Czech LocoTeam i can vouch for jenda on the Marketing Team, and has helped more collaboration with the doc team. he has been working with me to try and bring -nun up and moving foward and he helps alot in #ubuntu jenda is indeed very active in quite a few places since a while ago - keeps poking me for things i have seen jenda in #ubuntu-doc offering help jenda's wiki essay^Wpage looks pretty good reviving dead things like a loose cannon (which is meant as a compliment) ptomes is here Kamping_Kaiser no matter where i go jenda s been doing stuff, cant escape ;) jenda is helping on #ubuntu-cz and with other stuff on Czech LoCo Team, he also helped to settle down some of personal problems in Czech community ompaul can point at his involvement in various activities, marketing / IRC etc jenda: were you (remotely?) involved in the marketing discussions at the recent conference? I wasn't involved in them myself so didn't notice either way one thing about jenda is the common question..."What has Jenda been doing for Ubuntu?"...my answer is simple...What hasn't Jenda been doing...Jenda is doing a remarkable job organizing a Marketing team with great community support jenda is a great asset to Ubuntu in his efforts on the New User Network and the marketing team but I know there were some marketing things on the schedule Kamion: Yes, I'm participating in that. I put the meeting on the schedule. jenda is also one of few people who offered help with cz loco and he actually _did_ some work :-) jenda: how did they go? jenda has taken much of his time and focused his attention on getting the marketing team up to par for the Spread Ubuntu campaign as well as created contacts (that support his every effort) from w/in Canonical Kamion: the meeting will be tomorrow and we hope to get a new, unified marketing team going on LP, mailing list, wiki and #ubuntu-marketing. but real question is: do we really want him in ubuntu, because he will not give anybody any rest :-D ondrej: thank you +1 ondrej lol ondrej ;) +100 Kamping_Kaiser lol lol I appreciate Jenda's capability of help with presentation abou Czech localisation and his contribution to Czech community including forum moderating. ok, all sounds good to me, +1 based on the sustained/significant marketing and czech contributions +1 from me too elmo, ? and for bugging me about this meeting until I gave in +1 Kamion: hehe, that'd be right jenda, congratulations! CONGRATS JENDA!!!! Congrats Jenda :) Thanks, everyone :) Joey Stanford? congrats jenda congrats jenda Kamping_Kaiser woot. awsome jenda feel the love ;) congrats jenda congrats now that is Ubuntu at it's finest Kamping_Kaiser :) =) jenda is feeling it ;) Ubuntu... Jon Dowd? y'all got other channels to feel the love in, let's keep up with the meeting Maxence Dunnewind / Sp4rky? Jenda: I am glad to see you as a Ubuntu member, my friend and colleague. lukketto, (LucaGervasio) - you're up. If any of the people I called before still show up, please poke me. lukketto, ? ok I'm Luca Gervasio, 31, living in Italy and I'm a mathematician. I work in a University where last month my team developed and published a new way to identify objects using mathematical analysis. I joined the Edubuntu Documentation, Edubuntu School Support and Edubuntu Testers teams, to spread the use of Ubuntu in pubblic schools where, often, the lack of funds is a serious problem(!). I noticed that kids are very happy about an operating system targeted on them and they find the use of PCs more easier than using other OSs. If we work on kids bringing them different options, one day they will be able to choose among d Promoting Ubuntu needs documentation in your language and for this reason I decided to become a member of the Ubuntu Italian Translator Team (thanks MDKE!) and at present we're translating the new "Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter"(UWN) too. jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting you're a member of a lot of teams; how do you keep up? :) I work in my office... heh, I know the feeling if my boss sees me... I'm fired :D btw, cut off at "choose among d" then you got a space and a d more than me :) Actually I work in a University ...it is very interesting spreading Ubuntu in it ogra, can you cheerlead for his edubuntu work? Seveas, i have never seen him around in #edubuntu and dunno where the doc team guys are that might have worked with him and are there ane people from .it to help ogra cheerleading? (I'm a new member) lukketto, btw, since you are so much involved in edubuntu stuff, why didnt you apply for membership at the edubuntu council ? lukketto, membership implies that you already did some contribution, joining the teams doesnt suffice Sure, for this in edubuntu I'm very new... dsas [n=dean@host217-42-226-72.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting you should at least have some howto or some wikipages written or made some artwork or something else that counts as contribution and is measureable lukketto, sounds like you're doing a good job, keep up that good work ...my contribution in edubuntu works under the courtains... Spreading ubuntu in pubblic school is not easy (edubuntu) admittedly, these edubuntu teams aren't that tangible with regards to team output at the moment jbailey [n=jbailey@195.58.90.162] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Digital] lukketto, well, the council needs something it can measure I have to fight with teacher that don't know how to switch on a pc... ...anc that think that windows is the only solution for the internet... Kamping_Kaiser lukketto, how long have you been involved in using ubuntu, and how long contributing? But I'm afraid that without being able to confirm contributions I am going to say -1 for now - maybe you can work together with me in the next weeks gathering testimonials from people so the decision wil be easier I have been using linux (RH first and Debian later) for about 5 years and Ubuntu since Hoary. What brought me to Ubuntu? I'm an "idealist" and so, when I heard about a community that has for its motto "Linux for the human beings", what do you think I did? I immediately joined it and signed the code of conduct! i had to apply twice i think before i made the council, just need to hav emore people back up your work But something is going on in the pubblic school.... OK, sounds like we may have to discount the Edubuntu contributions for now since the Edubuntu folks haven't been aware of them, although the Italian translation work should be tangible any Italian translators here? ...thanks to my girlfriend (she is a teacher) I introduced me in several schools ;) ... Kamion I tried to contact MDKE... ....but he is offline :( (I haven't quite figured out how to get Launchpad to tell me who translated what) Kamion, -EIMPOSSIBLE (though somebody claimed the other day that it's possible) really? https://launchpad.net/people/gervasio/+translations yeah, it was in person though and they didn't give details ompaul, those aren't the actual translations ompaul: at the single-string level, not the template level ahh I'm an official italian ubuntu translator, as you can see I work on the wiki in the italian site hmm, ok, this is basically our fault because the meeting was scheduled with so little notice, so not as many people as usual can turn up to offer corroboration true that lukketto: right, the problem is figuring out how to separate out your contributions from those of the other translators so that we can get an idea of how much stuff you've done unfortunately the tools aren't quite adequate for this; I'm going to file a launchpad bug about that if there isn't one already lukketto: would you mind persuading people who've worked with you to show up in two weeks' time, and we can talk about it then? rosetta karma is a indicator of activity this isn't a rejection at all - it's just good to gather second opinions Kamion, bug 80 Malone bug 80 in rosetta "cannot see who put in bad translation" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/80 Kamion looks Kamion: I' trying to contact my "team leader" but it seems he is offline :( lukketto: yeah, mdke said he wouldn't be able to make this meeting unfortunately afaik, translation karma has gone up as of late. if mdke is happy with the work you've been doing, I'll have no issue same here (but next time I won't be voting) mdke is normally around, and if he won't be around next week I'll make sure to get a comment from him in advance er next fortnight Kamion: I'll try now with an email...I hope he is online lukketto, he isn't - he already told us that Seveas: this is kind of the other way up from that bug going from person to list of translations rather than from translation to contributor for the edubuntu-it stuff try to get hold of bimberi, he's doing lots of edubuntu-it work ping? davi_ [n=davi@201.21.137.139] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Hobbsee, pong Seveas: thanks, thought my connection was going down. davi_ [n=davi@201.21.137.139] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] lukketto, sorry that we have to disappoint you for now, but please come back in two weeks time when the meeting datetime will be known to more people rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Seveas: ok rodarvus, you're up next hi there Rodrigo Novo ("rodarvus"), Canonical Employee, I was at UDS Paris last week I'm working on Edubuntu, LTSP and on the One Laptop per Child projects (and some other unrelated Ubuntu packages) In the past I was developer (and then lead developer) for the Conectiva Linux distro (at Conectiva), did performance/optimization C development at Terra Lycos, developed an OpenOffice.org derivative (at Freedows Consortium) and did development on the Maemo Platform SDK (at Nokia Institute of Technology) ogra, start the cheerleading please ;) :) \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ ro dra vus !! haha lol lol ogra cheers ! \o_ rodarvus _o/ rodarvus! oops :) hehe rodrigo and i met in paris and i'm eager to work with himm on edubuntu ... Ckenyon [n=chrisken@217.205.109.249] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] rodarvus, you do know that it will be hard to replace JaneW ;) Seveas, for this we'll have RichardW ;) well he's not replacing JaneW =) indeed i cant do much about work related stuff yet, since there were only two weeks we worked together yet ... but he was very helpful at the spec discussions and i trust his skills to take the technical lead on edubuntu s/do/say/ https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/51125 Malone bug 51125 in rosetta "can't get details of a translator's activities" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] he also met the whole of the CC in person, so i guess they can judge themselves :) heh well, it's always difficult to deal impartially with new employees of course, but it's good to hear that rodarvus dived into the discussions in Paris helpfully I only have the usual 'no 2 months of activity yet' argument, but that's a moot point for a canonical employee I guess and I expect to get sustained contributions by virtue of the fact that who on earth quits a job after a month if they don't have to indeed especially with such sexy colleagues like me ogra hides Seveas refrains from commenting on that ughh rodarvus: are you finding your way around ok? rodarvus rembembers the other Saturday :) lol Kamion, sure, its coming along nicely incidentally, I'd never have recognised you from your photo on LP I had grown beard last week (but not on the LP photo) I'm assuming you have a mentor, but feel free to shout in the direction of pretty much any of core-dev for guidance if need be Kamion, ogra is helping me a lot, indeed - thanks a lot for the offer - I'll surely bug core-dev in the next few weeks :) righto, +1 as far as I'm concerned (starting today, probably) +1 elmo, ? +1 heh thanks guys :) ok, congratz rodarvus ! \o_ rodarvus _o/ welcom rodarvus !! congrats done indeed, nice work all I promise to work hard to keep the good name of Ubuntu else we'll just rename it :P is Paul Schulz here? Kamion, a CC meeting next week would not be too unreasonable I think, given that this one was poorly announced and it's been 4 weeks since the last one Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting honestly I'm not sure I have the stamina :P hehe Seveas, I believe there is a Techical Board meeting next week aren't TB & CC meetings supposed not to overlap? Kamion, in any case, *please* schedule it soon and notify $world I'd rather just keep to the usual schedule, but schedule it now elmo: can you get to Mark's schedule via Claire? now would be soon enough sure any times looking particularly good? yeah, anything but two weeks from today we should probably cycle it a bit - either 2000 or 0800 perhaps sabdfl is away for 10-23 oh, doh davi_ [n=davi@201.21.137.139] has joined #ubuntu-meeting davi_ [n=davi@201.21.137.139] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] siccness [n=j00b@CPE-138-217-3-129.vic.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting (0800 is cruel on the americans) erm. how about we do next week at 0800 UTC and then go back to three weeks after that? jenda, 2000 is cruel on the australians ;) hehe ;) jenda: we hardly ever do that time, so they can probably cope this once afternoon of the 6th is possible Seveas: you bet it is. 6th is a Thursday alternatively we could dig up mako, if we can find him sabdfl is optional Kamion: true, it's only fair. kamion: yeah, he's not available on the tuesday Kamion: 2100UTC isnt so bad, or 1300 UTC elmo: let's do 2000 UTC in two weeks time then and hope that mako's around; that time is civilised for him Hobbsee, we cycle meetings *because* we can't please everyone - so no point in complaining about a simgle meeting ;) we can do the 0800 thing some other time kamion: shall we confirm with mako before getting people's hopes up? elmo: ok, I'll send mail and I'll take responsibility for announcing it Seveas: i realise that, i was commenting on decent timezones for aussies, if you wanted them to be there in particular.  i got struck by a vicious kde keyboard bug, hence the disconnect before, so came in on the backend Kamion, I'll send jenda to chase you ;) jenda barks Hobbsee gets her long pointy stick ready to spear Kamion for not announcing it early enough Kamping_Kaiser has jenda snipped Seveas: you know what I'm good at ;) Anyone have any other business for the CC? going once mail sent going twice ok, meeting ends! Thanks everyone, see you in two weeks (hopefully) class="anchor" id="line-732">

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