03:01 mdz        waiting to hear from infinity, Riddell, Diziet and daniels
  03:01 Riddell    I'm here
  03:01 pitti      seb128: I won't stay awake after getting up at 3...
  03:01 janeW      calc: heh - not in ZA though (4am)
  03:01 mvo        pitti: we all know that seb128 does not sleep
  03:01 calc       janeW: exactly :)
  03:01 seb128     pitti: sissi :p
  03:01 pitti      right - "must ... package ... crack"
  03:01 seb128     lol
  03:02 calc       pitti: sorry that package name already taken :)
  03:02 Keybuk     infinity went to bed ~8 hours ago, so he might need waking up
  03:03 ogra       probably daniels could poke him
  03:03 ogra       of jdub
  03:03 ogra       *or
  03:03 mdz        sent SMS to infinity and daniels
  03:03 mdz        Kamion: have you seen Ian?
  03:03 Kamion     mdz: just about to phone him
  03:03 doko_      so, the australians take their 3pm tea break? ;-P
  03:04 mdz        Kamion: thanks
  03:04 Kamion     although his housemates will kill me tomorrow evening
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  03:04 janeW      if infinity doesn't appear I will never accept his whining
                   about bad meeting times again...
  03:05 Kamion     no reply
  03:05 jbailey    janeW: Aww, someone else woke you up.  I should've been
  03:05 jbailey    janeW: I can be a scary voice to hear on the phone at 2am. =)
  03:05 janeW      jbailey: lol, that
  03:06 janeW      's what I thought, fear woke me up ;)
  03:06 jbailey    <voice style="raspy,deep">Hello, Jane.  We're waiting for
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  03:06 mdz        ok, we need to start without them
  03:06 BenC       let 'er rip
  03:06 mdz        let's go in spreadsheet order
  03:06 mdz        BenC
  03:06 daniels    actally, I'd like to go first
                   ubuntu-server-kernel: in progress - 2.6.15-7.9 contains i386
  03:06 BenC       server kernels. The kernels will be renamed in -8.10. Amd64
                   will get server kernels in -8.10 aswell (same style as i386
                   server kernels).
  03:06 BenC       preventing-hardware-support-regressions: not started
  03:06 BenC       testing-server-hardware: not started - Will start on this in
                   coming week
  03:06 daniels    or second
  03:07 BenC       actually, preventing-hw-s-r will start this week too
  03:07 mdz        BenC: thanks
  03:07 mdz        daniels: ok
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  03:07 mdz        (you're second on the spreadsheet anyway)
  03:07 infinity   Sorry I'm late.
  === Keybuk mourns
  03:08 mdz        daniels?
  03:08 doko_      we know ;-)
  03:08 daniels    this week: fixed driver FTBFSes (build-depends), updated
                   versions for RC3
  03:08 daniels    next week: continued work on RC3, hopefully get started on
                   'xorg' source package
  03:08 daniels    blocked: none
  03:08 daniels    x-roadmap: mostly there, just tracking continued version
                   updates.  maintainer
  03:08 daniels    scripts still need some loving.
  03:08 mdz        daniels: thanks
  03:08 mdz        dholbach: next
  03:08 dholbach   inclusion-of-docs: another update, talked to doc-team about
                   some changes
                   this week: DesktopTeam/TODO, DesktopTeam/NewSoftware,
  03:08 dholbach   get-bug-number-sane-again, get-a11y-team-rolling,
                   next week: dont-make-seb-cry-over-bug-load,
  03:08 dholbach   have-fun-with-gnome-2.13.3, pre-christmas-cleanup-bugday,
                   meet slomo and siretart to discuss media-related test plan
                   and media-bits of example-content
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  03:09 mdz        dholbach: what's happening with power management
  03:09 ogra       mdz, mjg59 took it
  03:09 dholbach   mdz: i didnt do much since then, mjg59 already did an upload
  03:09 ogra       g-p-m works fine already
  03:09 pitti      dholbach: I can feel your relief :)
  03:09 mdz        janeW: did mjg59 send you any information about it?
  03:10 janeW      mdz: no not at all
  03:10 dholbach   i will try to reconfirm
  03:10 mdz        dholbach: if mjg59 is taking that over, make test plans your
                   next priority
  03:10 dholbach   ok
  03:10 ogra       mdz, i'd call it nearly done
  03:10 mdz        dholbach: thanks
  03:10 mdz        doko_: next
  03:10 janeW      should mjg59 be at these meetings if he is taking the goal?
  03:10 doko_      this week (including weekend):
                   - toolchain-roadmap: amd64-biarch (still blocked); gcc*
  03:10 doko_      packages updated, tuning to pentium4 by default instead of
                   i686 (i386 only); gij-4.1/gcj-4.1 packaging finished, pending
                   upload; ant/java bugzilla work
  03:10 doko_      - toolchain-dapper+1: updated packages for test rebuild, now
                   blocked by preparation of buildd's.
  03:10 doko_      - python-roadmap: deferred during last meeting, priority on
                   - openoffice.org: updated to 2.0.1rc1 (ooo2, -l10n, -amd64,
  03:10 doko_      -helpcontent), fixed amd64 build, build native amd64 packages
                   (suffix -experimental)
  03:10 doko_      openoffice.org-gnome: no reply from martink, will phone him
                   this week
  03:10 doko_      problems: disk space on concordia, 1GB uploads from home
  03:10 doko_      next week:
  03:10 doko_      - python-roadmap: python-central update
  03:10 doko_      - openoffice.org: bugzilla work; support work(?)
  03:11 Keybuk     janeW: it's 2am for him, and he doesn't work for us, it's a
                   bit unfair to demand it
  03:11 mdz        janeW: Keybuk++, an email update would be reasonable
  03:11 fabbione   doko_: disk space on concordia will be fixed really soon (got
                   feedback from Karl on the rt)
  03:11 janeW      Keybuk: right, but he should give an update anyway and/or
                   attend when he can
  03:11 mdz        doko_: what's blocking biarch? glibc?
  03:11 jbailey    Yup
  03:11 doko_      mdz: yes, jbailey will upload soon
  03:11 mdz        jbailey: what's happening there?
  03:11 janeW      mdz: I'll mail him
  03:12 jbailey    mdz: It builds now, just the last packaging changes and one
                   questions.  It's in my status report.
  03:12 mdz        ok
  03:12 mdz        doko_: thanks
  03:12 mdz        fabbione: next
                   * server-candy: md5client in progress and it starts to look
  03:12 fabbione   ok. code is very small and it is already partially integrated
                   with d-i rescue mode. Mailing
                   list is configured. Announce by tomorrow. More suggestions
  03:12 fabbione   are coming from different people. Agreed with mdz to add a
                   new spec as wishlist but had no
  03:12 fabbione   time to write it.
                   * ubuntu-cluster: redhat cluster suite and ocfs2 updates
  03:12 fabbione   (kernel and userland) that still requires a bit of testing. A
                   few small pkgs still to upgrade
  03:13 fabbione   before start looking into new stuff. More people to test for
                   regressions would be good.
                   * probe-for-root-filesystem: WIP, start looking into it and
  03:13 fabbione   the new udev does what we need. Discussion with
                   Kamion/Keybuk/infinity about some minor pro
  03:13 fabbione   blems associated to the implementation, all sorted.
  03:13 fabbione   * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.
                   * merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, util-linux -
  03:13 fabbione   pending lamont to upload and test a new upstream version (and
                   that might actually kill the
  03:13 fabbione   need of the merge).
  03:13 fabbione   * last week: worked on specs. mails.. usual stuff.
                   * next week: keep going server-candy full speed. Expect to
  03:13 fabbione   deliver the first useable bits of the md5client. Write the
                   spec agreed with mdz. Try to do s
  03:13 fabbione   ome tests with the new cluster software.
                   * notes: thursday 15th i will be away almost all day
  03:13 fabbione   travelling to the other side of DK to give a talk about
                   Ubuntu. the 16th i will probably start lat
  03:13 fabbione   er than usual (it depends how late i will come back the 15th
                   + dentist).
  03:13 fabbione   oh
  03:14 fabbione   installer-volume-manager is out of my report since it's
  03:14 fabbione   JaneW: ^^
                   fabbione: my feeling on probe-for-root is that we should do
  03:14 mdz        it by default in the installer if the root filesystem is on a
                   USB device or similar, but otherwise default to the current
  03:14 mdz        fabbione: is that what you've in mind as well?
  03:14 janeW      fabbione: great
  03:14 Keybuk     probe-for-root won't work on ide devices
  03:14 mdz        Keybuk: why not?
  03:14 fabbione   mdz: no, we will do it where we can.
  03:14 fabbione   Keybuk: ?????
  03:14 fabbione   Keybuk: let's take this after the meeting
  03:15 Keybuk     k
  03:15 mdz        fabbione: I'm a little nervous about such an intrusive change
                   to the default boot process
  03:15 mdz        fabbione: yes, let's talk another time about it
  03:15 mdz        fabbione: thanks for the updates
  03:15 fabbione   mdz: we can try and test.. and we can decide.
  03:15 mdz        infinity: next
                   last week: lots more work on linux-restricted-modules,
  03:15 infinity   security updates, udev/kernel debugging, and buildd
                   tracking.  Started work on thunderbird 1.5 as well.  Not much
                   spec progress this last week, but:
  03:15 infinity   splash-down: should be uploading packages tomorrow to turn
                   this feature on.
  03:15 infinity   next week: More work on usplash/initramfs-related specs, and
                   more of the rest of my non-spec-related job tasks, I suspect.
  03:15 calc       is probe for root similar to what yaird is doing on 2.6.12+ ?
  03:16 mdz        launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/probe-for-root-filesystem
                   or so
  03:16 calc       thx
  03:16 fabbione   calc: no.
                   i doesn't know if could be useful for help also ubuntu but
  03:16 Evaso2     there is a good page about some statistics here:
  03:16 mdz        infinity: there's a new nvidia driver out; please see that we
                   get that in as well (either you or BenC)
  03:16 mdz        infinity: what of your remaining merges?
  03:17 infinity   mdz : I have the orig already rolled, just need to test the
                   update on my girlfriends' computer.
  03:17 infinity   mdz : It fixes a mess of bugs on x86_64, it would seem.
                   Evaso2: please keep extraneous comments until after the
  03:17 Kamion     meeting, preferably on a different channel; we have an agenda
                   and a tight timescale here
  03:17 BenC       infinity: I can test aswell, have a GeForce4 here
  03:17 Evaso2     Kamoin: ok
  03:17 dholbach   infinity: nice, i can test it on x86_64 if you want
                   mdz : thunderbird and php should be my only outstanding
  03:17 infinity   merges, unless I missed one, tbird is jumping to 1.5, php is
                   happening when I upload all the security stuff later today.
  03:18 BenC       infinity: does it get things working on ia64 yet, because I
                   can test that too
  03:18 infinity   dholbach : Thanks, I have a 6800GT on amd64, but if your card
                   is different, the more testing the merrier.
  03:18 mdz        infinity: enigmail and initramfs-tools are also on your list
  03:18 infinity   BenC : No ia64 drivers.
  03:18 dholbach   infinity: excellent
  03:18 mdz        infinity: initramfs-tools may be bogus; I commented in
                   mdz : enigmail is blocked on tbird (no need to merge it right
  03:18 infinity   now), and initramfs-tools is more of a back and forth
                   cherry-picking between the Debian maintainer and I.
  03:18 BenC       infinity: remind me later about my ia64-nvidia work, I have
                   it setup
  03:18 mdz        infinity: please set the status whiteboard for those bugs
  03:19 infinity   BenC : Oh, yes, it works, but it's an old driver, not updated
                   in eons, and we dropped support for it long ago.
  03:19 infinity   mdz : Check.
  03:19 BenC       no, I mean using the same source :)
  03:19 mdz        infinity: how does reducing-duplication stand?
  03:19 infinity   BenC : Oh, cool.  Talk to me after the meeting.
  03:20 infinity   mdz : No major progress to report this last week, unless
                   pitti jumped some hurdles I'm not aware of, but it grinds on.
  03:20 infinity   doko_ : We will need help on punting python2.3 ASAP, BTW.
  03:20 pitti      no big ones, I was busy with other stuff
  03:20 mdz        infinity: how far are we from completing the parts which are
                   in the existing spec?
  03:20 Kamion     I've been demoting the odd random thing to universe, but
                   nothing major
  03:20 infinity   doko_ : So, I hope things are falling into place for that.
  03:20 pitti      mdz: I updated the wiki page, btw
  03:20 doko_      infinity: yes, scheduled for next week
  03:21 infinity   doko_ : Rock on.
  03:21 mdz        infinity: ok, the wiki page answers that question
  03:21 infinity   Oh!.. Missed MySQL 5.0 in my update.
  03:21 mdz        infinity: thanks
  03:21 mdz        janeW: please chase Ian tomorrow for an update
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  #ubuntu-meeting ["Client]
  03:21 mdz        jbailey: next
  03:21 infinity   mdz : Been evaluating MySQL 5.0, close to making a decision
                   there, but I need a short followup with you about it.
                   * ToolchainRoadmap: Per last weeks meeting, libc-i386 coming
                   this week for amd64.  Need to decide if we feel like
  03:21 jbailey    providing both LinuxThreads and NPTL.  ia32-libs did, but
                   this makes the packaging *much* messier.  lkh biarch fixed so
                   it actually works.
                   * ToolchainRoadmapNg: After the glibc biarch, will start to
  03:21 jbailey    evaluate glibc needs.  Want to start collecting feedback on
                   dropping pre-i686 per  outstanding issues .
                   * LocalesThatDontSuck: No bugs received from the locales
  03:21 jbailey    changes, my desktop is still in French.  Assuming that my
                   stuff is finished mod latent bugs.
  03:21 jbailey    * Other: Still punting bugs to other people.  Need someone to
                   take grub bugs by default.
  03:21 jbailey    * Merges:  glibc TBD after biarch is finished.
  03:22 doko_      infinity: db4.3 and oo2 still looks problematic
  03:22 janeW      mdz: ok
  03:22 mdz        infinity: ok
  03:22 janeW      I have an update from jdub
  03:22 mdz        infinity: grab me sometime when we're both around
  03:22 infinity   doko_ : Ping me about it post-meeting.
                   jdub: example-content - Yeah, sorry - too much traveling to
                   attend the meetings or get anything done on it. I plan to
  03:22 janeW      start doing stuff on it as soon as I return home from OSDC ,
                   and will hopefully get a huge chunk of it done before
                   Christmas break.
  03:22 mdz        who can give some love to grub?
  03:23 Kamion     I've got half its bugs anyway, although many of them are
                   throw-up-hands-in-despair material
  === jbailey listens to the crickets.
  03:23 mdz        Kamion: or rather, forward-upstream material?
  03:23 jbailey    mdz: There is no upstream for grub1 anymore.
  03:23 zul        mdz: i can try to help with the grub stuff
  03:23 mdz        ugh
  03:24 jbailey    It's pretty much an abandonned codebase in favour of grub2.
  03:24 Kamion     what jbailey said, although actually there *was* a recent
  03:24 ogra       mdz, mjg59 ?
  03:24 mdz        zul: that would be a great help; there's a lot in bugzilla
                   which needs review and consolidation
  03:24 zul        sure..
  03:24 mdz        jbailey: is any distribution actually using grub2 yet,
  03:24 jbailey    No.
                   we're on 0.97 now and I think it probably killed a few bugs
  03:24 Kamion     in bugzilla, although we need to ping submitters once we have
                   something coherent for them to test
  03:24 jbailey    I wouldn't recommend it for dapper.
  03:24 jbailey    I have vague thoughts of packaging it for universe for fun,
                   but not targetting main at all.
  03:25 jbailey    I'm in regular contact with the grub2 upstreams.
  03:25 mdz        Kamion: ok
  03:25 mdz        jbailey: thanks
  03:25 mdz        Kamion: next
                   ubuntu-express-*, ue-*: Finally got Guadalinex work imported
                   into bzr and started cleaning bits of it up. Started writing
  03:25 Kamion     debconffilter integration code. Uploaded a
                   debian-installer-utils change to build espresso-utils.deb,
                   which saves me ripping out or reimplementing various tools.
                   ubuntu-express-bootloader: Made os-prober work outside d-i
                   and created a .deb (all upstream). Have been thinking about
  03:25 Kamion     the rest of the design and hacking on experimental pieces,
                   but not much code yet. (I decided to tackle this instead of
                   partitioning because it gives me quicker visible return on
                   cd-bootloader: gfxboot and syslinux uploaded; now I just need
                   to write and install a theme and get loads of testing done.
  03:25 Kamion     Spent this afternoon reading up on the language; noted that
                   it isn't inherently tied to any particular video mode, which
                   should help us a lot. Started hacking on an Ubuntu theme,
                   cloned-and-hacked from the SuSE one.
  03:25 Kamion     misc: Clarified archive-copier question for
                   blocked: Flight CD 2 can't happen until somebody fixes casper
                   to cope with d-i being initramfs now (which was blocked on
  03:25 Kamion     getting live filesystems built, but I think we can do that
                   now thanks to the mozilla-firefox-locale-all fix). I'll
                   probably end up doing this myself.
  03:26 mdz        Kamion: have Mithrandir care for casper
                   oh, I don't have a next-week there - that's pretty much
  03:26 Kamion     hammer casper into submission for initramfs d-i, do flight cd
                   2, do a quick gfxboot theme and get that in, keep going with
  03:26 jbailey    Kamion: Is it technical issues with initramfs'?  I can still
                   be a resource since I've played with them alot.
  03:26 Kamion     and whatever else needs to be done
                   Q, on going through the blocks/depends lists yesterday, many
  03:27 janeW      of the dapper goals depend on other goals, should we be
                   tracking all those other goals on the spreadsheet (and
                   project plan) too?
                   jbailey: not really, it just needs to be adapted from
  03:27 Kamion     pivot_root and it's only very recently (today) that you've
                   been able to get a 2.6.15 live CD far enough to do anything
                   with it
  03:27 Kamion     mdz: ok, thanks
  03:27 mdz        Kamion: I think we should talk about ubuntu-express and see
                   what chunks others can start on
  03:27 jbailey    Kamion: 'k.  Call if you need, though.
  03:27 mdz        thanks Kamion, Keybuk next
                   udev-roadmap: been shaking out the big bugs, making good
  03:27 Keybuk     progress though and am feeling confident that the final
                   product is a LOT better than breezy
  03:27 Keybuk     (ide drivers vs. ide-generic -- fixed with a kernel patch so
                   the ide driver wins)
                   (libata drivers vs. ide-generic -- fixed with a new script
  03:27 Keybuk     that only tries to load ide-generic if ROOT=/dev/hd* and it
                   doesn't exist after probing for PCI controllers)
  03:27 Keybuk     (scsi drivers vs. the clock -- fixed with same new script
                   that waits for root node to appear if ROOT=/dev/sd*)
  03:27 Keybuk     hardware-activation: no progress as been chasing udev bugs
  03:27 Keybuk     streamlined-boot: fully tested and running on my laptop, now
                   sysvinit is merged, will begin uploading the changes
                   mdz: fine, but I'm still sorting out the pieces that
  03:28 Kamion     *everything* else will depend on so I'm not sure more cooks
                   will help just yet
  03:28 Keybuk     network-magic: no progress.
  03:28 Keybuk     next-week: other udev problems, streamlined boot and
  03:29 BenC       Kebuk: scsi drivers vs. clock, does that work for
                   usb/ieee1394 drives for root aswell?
  03:29 mdz        Keybuk: will either of those workarounds be foiled by
                   probe-for-root in any meaningful way?
  03:29 Keybuk     should do, yup
  03:29 Keybuk     mdz: that's the thing that foils probe-for-root on
  03:29 Keybuk     because there's no way to know we might need to know
  03:29 Keybuk     and we flat-out can't load ide-generic if it's sata/scsi
  03:29 mdz        isn't that a bug?
  03:30 Keybuk     so I've had to assume that probe-for-root is scsi-a-like
  03:30 Keybuk     you can call it a bug, but there's no way I can see to fix it
  03:30 Keybuk     ide-generic claims unclaimed ide devices
  03:30 Keybuk     modprobe ata_piix
  03:30 Keybuk     modprobe ide-generic
  03:30 Keybuk     usually, ide beats ata_piix to claiming the ide devices
  03:30 mdz        janeW: dapper-release-process is implemented
  03:31 mdz        Keybuk: ok, thanks
  03:31 mdz        janeW: update from Mithrandir?
                   this actually affected breezy too, except as infinity and I
  03:31 Keybuk     found out, even an echo between the two modprobes is enough
                   to tilt the balance the other way
  03:31 janeW      mdz: ok thanks
  03:31 janeW      mdz: no, no one sent me any updates this week...
  03:31 mdz        janeW: oh, right, he was on holiday
  03:32 mdz        mvo: next
  03:32 mvo        * 3rd party repostiories: only a bit work on gdebi (direct
                   deb installs), no work done on gnome-app-install
                   * suggest packages to install to provide missing apps: some
  03:32 mvo        work with zyga,  progressing (not hight priority for me
  03:32 mvo        * unattended package upgrades: in the archive, needs testing,
                   maybe backport to
  03:32 mvo        breezy to get this testing (in a unoffical archive of
  03:32 mvo        * upgrading from one ubuntu release to the next: actual
                   dist-upgrade tool is making good progress, a sucessfull
  03:32 mvo          upgrade from hoary to breezy was performed. still work to
                   do on
  03:32 mvo          the details and sanity checks
  03:32 mvo          (current gui: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/dist-upgrader/)
  03:32 mvo        * package recommends: want to bounty daniel burrows (if
  03:32 mvo        Next week
  03:32 mvo        - more work on the dist-upgrade tool
  03:32 mvo        - gnome-app-install work for the second part of the 3rd party
  03:32 mvo          spec
  03:32 mdz        Kamion: please follow up on bootchart-udeb and guide that
                   into main for tollef
  03:32 Kamion     mdz: already done
  03:32 mdz        Kamion: ok, thanks
  03:33 Kamion     mdz: just needs adding to the d-i pkg-lists, which is
                   trivial; queued for next upload
  03:33 jbailey    mvo: What's the spec called for upgrading from one release to
                   the next?  I'd like to read up on it.
  03:33 mvo        "AutomaticUpgrades"
  03:33 jbailey    Tx.
  03:33 mdz        mvo: once the tool is done, we still need the update-manager
                   side to download and use the tool, right?
  03:34 mvo        mdz: yes, they share a bzr archive right now too
  03:34 mvo        it is designed to be independant and it can have multiple uis
                   (kde would be possilbe as well)
                   mvo: I'm not entirely sure about recommends; I think it would
  03:34 mdz        be too intrusive to switch the metapackages to recommends for
                   dapper, and if we don't do that, we don't get any benefit
                   from it
  03:34 mvo        but the downloading needs to happen somehow
  03:34 mdz        mvo: thoughts?
  03:35 Kamion     if we get the code in now we can use it more comfortably in
                   dapper+1 ...
  03:35 Kamion     (assuming it's sufficiently safe)
  03:35 mvo        mdz: difficult, I agree that it is intrusive, but it would
                   solve a problem a lot of people complain about
  03:35 mdz        Kamion: dapper+1 seems likely to use smart
  03:35 Kamion     I see
  03:35 mdz        mvo: let's talk about it later
  03:35 mdz        mvo: thanks
  03:35 mvo        ok
  03:35 mdz        ogra: next
                   * thin-client-sound: no work done this week, spec reviewed
  03:36 ogra       minor changes, needs working X on thin client for more
                   realworld tests.
  03:36 ogra       * thin-client-local-devices: spec still in drafting. trying
                   to get hold of sbalneav to make up a meeting with mdz.
                   * thin-client-memory-usage: was waiting for the new
  03:36 ogra       initramfs/udev/kernel architecture for modlue blacklist
                   testing, spec approved.
                   * thin-client-faster-startup: finally below a minute
  03:36 ogra       http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051208-1.png
                   , spec reviewed, minor changes.
  03:36 ogra       * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no work this week , still
                   needs images.
                   * general work: Xorg autodetection on thin clients: bug
                   #20563 filed working with daniels on it (gdb session
                   outstanding). requested ldm changes done locally, not
  03:36 ogra       uploaded yet, multiarch changes pending review. xscreensaver
                   hack split (#3044) done locally. gnome-screensaver main
                   inclusion report pending review, main inclusion planned
                   before flight2. mknbi/etherboot problem: no work done yet.
                   cdrom installable per today, ready for flight 2, waiting
                   for livefs to be build. hwdb-client bzr archive is up on
  03:36 ogra       edubuntu-artwork postinst changes started locally. grabbed
                   some orphaned merges. held edubuntu workshop and talk at
                   "essener linuxtage".
                   * next weeks goals: major target is to get X up again on the
                   thin clients, test mdz's suggestions for thin client sound,
  03:36 ogra       flight2 testing, ask sabdfl for his proposed space images for
                   gnome-screensaver-default-image, upload new edubuntu-artwork,
                   more hwdb-client work. inspect X autodetection on thin
                   clients for possible speedups per mdz suggestion.
  03:36 mdz        ogra: let me know via email if there are specs ready for
                   another review
  03:36 ogra       mdz, will do the requested changes tomorrow
  03:37 ogra       (and mail you )
  03:37 mdz        ogra: likewise for ldm (I merged multiarch btw)
  03:37 ogra       yay
  03:37 ogra       ldm is trivial
  03:37 ogra       just not tested yet
  03:37 mdz        ogra: what do you have planned for hwdb-client?
  03:38 ogra       code cleanup and bugfixes ...
  03:38 mdz        ok
  03:38 mdz        ogra: thanks
  03:38 mdz        pitti: next
  03:38 ogra       as per dapper policy, only polish
  03:38 pitti      language-pack-vs-support: DONE: spec completely implemented,
                   thanks to mvo and Kamion
                   langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: applied zyga's gnome-desktop
                   and glib2.0 patches, changed cdbs to make the necessary
  03:38 pitti      changes to the .desktop files, did some performance tests,
                   updated spec; PLAN: changed spec was approved now, upload
                   everything today, track package rebuild status
                   automatic-printer-conf: DONE: started discussion with
  03:38 pitti      upstram; BLOCK: we need to find a sensible way of checking
                   whether a given hal printer UDI is already configured in cups
  03:38 pitti      gstreamer-audio-backend: BLOCK: gstreamer 0.10 for creating
                   the alsadmixsink
                   reducing-duplication: DONE: readline4 and ucs-snmp made it to
  03:38 pitti      universe, infinity tested mysql 5.0; PLAN: convert all
                   packages to use only 5.0's client libs, push 4.0 and 4.1 to
  03:38 pitti      merges: all DONE except for cdrecord (upstream version
  03:38 pitti      rosetta-firefox-support, pmount-uber-alles, firewall,
                   automated-problem-reports: no change since last week
                   pitti: locales get's back a copy of the i18n data, so we
  03:39 doko_      don't need to change the packages relying on it for
  03:40 pitti      doko_: no, not to locales itself; we didn't come to a
                   conclusion in this discussion, and I further thought about it
  03:40 pitti      let's discuss this in #u-d today again
  03:40 mdz        ok
  03:40 mdz        pitti: thanks
  03:40 mdz        seb128: next
  03:40 pitti      (I don't think it makes sense to put the locales into an -all
                   package at all)
                   faster-gnome-startup: implemented (new fontconfig with mmap
                   cache mentionned as an option is still beeing worked upstream
  03:40 seb128     so probably not for dapper, GTK icon cache specification has
                   issues will be sorted for Debian but probably not for dapper
                   neither, others points are done and work correctly)
                   hide-admin-tools-to-users: gnome-menus code changes done,
  03:40 seb128     waiting on mvo to update the desktop files on his packages,
                   out of the implemented/working fine
  03:40 seb128     menu-revisited: implemented (may ajust some stuff according
                   to users comments though)
  03:40 seb128     rhythmbox-ipod: I got an ipod this week
                   video-playback: upstream 0.10 tarballs are available. They
                   splitted the plugins to 4 source packages (main, good, bad,
                   ugly), so most of the packaging (the binary split, etc) has
  03:40 seb128     to be reworked (the Debian maintainer has not really started
                   on that yet). I'm working on that for 2 days,
                   gst-plugins0.10/gst-plugins-base0.10 almost ready to upload.
                   I've discussed the changes with lool (Debian maintainer) and
                   send him some patches/pointed the new
  03:40 doko_      pitti: anything else than locales looks insane, ok, tomorrow
                   package and I'm waiting on his comments to be sure we pick
  03:40 seb128     the same split before uploading. He said he'll work on
                   merging that this week so I'll probably upload those packages
                   dapper-desktop-plan: there a first patch from lllmanulll (he
  03:40 seb128     who worked on the GnomePanel google bounty is working on
                   that) for the session dialog changes which is beeing
                   discussed on the ubuntu-desktop list
  03:40 seb128     .
  03:40 seb128     next week: keep packaging gst0.10, GNOME 2.13.3,
  03:41 mdz        seb128: I haven't noticed much of a speedup in GNOME startup;
                   what happened to "so fast we don't need a splash"? ;-)
  03:41 seb128     euuuh :p
  03:41 Riddell    seb128: is gst0.10 likely to break amarok, kaffeine etc?
  03:41 pitti      btw, I talked to lool, he wanted to start with gst 0.10 now
  03:41 mdz        seb128: were you able to measure before and after the
                   improvements and see what the gain was?
  03:42 seb128     I've not done benchmark but gconf is much faster when browser
                   with gconf-editor by example
  03:42 seb128     s/browser/browsed/
  03:42 pitti      my startup time reduced from 40 to 35 seconds, or so
  03:42 pitti      (gdm login to final desktop)
  03:42 mdz        pitti: 35 seconds to login?
  03:42 mdz        ah
  03:42 ogra       pitti, how do you measure ?
  03:42 ogra       stopwatch ?
  03:43 pitti      ogra: yes
  03:43 ogra       k
  03:43 seb128     pitti: what about lool/gst0.10?
  03:43 pitti      on a clean profile, it's still 27 seconds
  03:43 ogra       will do the same here with my slow disk
  03:43 mdz        seb128: so the desktop files (other than mvo's) have been
                   updated now, and hide-admin should be working for those?
  03:43 seb128     mdz: correct
  03:43 pitti      seb128: I discussed the dmix changes with him mainly, but he
                   seems to be eager to start with 0.10 now, too
  03:43 mdz        great
  03:43 mvo        mdz, seb128: I'll do my stuff tomorrow
  03:43 mdz        seb128: thanks
  03:43 mdz        Riddell: next
                   This week: some days at desktop architects meeting,
  03:43 Riddell    Portland.  Been doing merges and seed merges, revus, main
                   inclusion requests and KDE security updates.
  03:43 Riddell    Next week: finish off merges, simplify-kubuntu
  03:44 doko_      Riddell: xine update to 1.1?
  03:44 Kamion     Riddell: how far is kubuntu-desktop from being installable? I
                   haven't dug into its problems
  03:44 Keybuk     Riddell: you still have by far the largest number of
                   outstanding merges of anyone :-/
  03:44 mdz        BenC: btw, if you're certain we don't want the new
                   kernel-package, please close the bug WONTFIX
  03:44 Riddell    Kamion: mostly there now, pykde is the biggest issue
  03:44 Riddell    doko_: I see it on my merges, so I'll do it tomorrow
  03:45 Riddell    Keybuk: yeah, KDE 3.5 and the portland meeting got me behind,
                   I hope to have them all done by the end of the weekend
                   pitti: I've sent my gstreamer0.10 patch to lool 2 days for
  03:45 seb128     comment, he said it looks ok and he will merge it this week
                   (he got some real work stuff to do before)
  03:45 mdz        Riddell,JaneW: we need to review the kubuntu spec situation
  03:46 janeW      mdz: meeting?
  03:46 mdz        janeW: yes
  03:46 janeW      ok
  03:46 mdz        that's the end of the spreadsheet; did we miss anyone?
  03:46 seb128     pitti: we will probably agree on the details this week and
                   get that merged to Debian/uploaded to Ubuntu by monday
  03:47 mdz        I think that's all the status updates; since we have extra
                   time, the floor is open for any discussion topics
  03:47 pitti      this locales issue maybe?
  03:47 mdz        only items which are relevant to all or most of the team,
  03:47 pitti      hm, ok
  03:47 Keybuk     merges: I think everyone but Riddell has done all the
                   non-blocked ones ... should we turn mom on again?
  03:47 infinity   Yes please.
  03:47 ogra       yay
  03:48 mdz        Keybuk: yes, but without filing bugs
  03:48 Keybuk     how would we keep track without the bugs?
  03:48 infinity   Even if we don't all have time for merge work, I'd like to
                   know that there are outstanding merges to be done.
  03:48 doko_      mdz: yes, please change this meeting time (3hours earlier or
                   3hours later)
  03:48 mdz        Keybuk: can we set a reduced priority on merge bugs by
  03:48 Keybuk     mdz: sure
  03:48 jbailey    Thinking of bugs, do we know when Malone goes live for main?
  03:48 mdz        Keybuk: ok, let's do that instead then
  03:48 fabbione   mdz: but why without filing bugs?
  03:49 fabbione   or lower priority?
  03:49 mdz        jbailey: I need to follow up with bradb on that; don't have a
                   status update
  03:49 jbailey    mdz: Tx
  03:49 Keybuk     enhancement?
  03:49 mdz        fabbione: because we're not going to try to track merges on
                   an ongoing basis; it's too much work
  03:49 Keybuk     or do you mean the Pn bit?
  03:49 mdz        we'll do another check close to UVF
  03:49 mdz        Keybuk: I mean Pn
  03:49 fabbione   mdz: ok...
  03:49 Keybuk     pick an n
  03:50 mdz        3
  03:50 mdz        just something below the default
  03:50 mdz        or maybe P5, lowest
  03:51 ogra       dholbach, whats your feeling about malone for main as
                   probably the person who works most with it currently ?
                   doko_: we agreed on these meeting times in Montreal; everyone
  03:51 mdz        is inconvenienced only once per month and everyone has some
                   meetings at reasonable times of day
  === ogra finds 8am worse than 3am :)
                   doko_: if you'd like to propose a change, please evaluate it
  03:52 mdz        in the context of everyone's time zone and post to
                   ubuntu-devel for discussion
  03:52 dholbach   ogra: the mail- and the clickability-situation is what
                   concerns most people, from what i've heard
  03:52 mdz        any other business?
  03:52 doko_      mdz: ok
  03:52 Kamion     what's the soyuz status?
  03:52 dholbach   ogra: i hope that defaults qa contacts will make that better
  03:52 seb128     dholbach: default assignment too
  03:52 mdz        soyuz is coming along pretty well; the publisher output is
                   almost certifiable
  03:52 jbailey    Just like us? =)
  03:52 ogra       dholbach, thanks, i only use it to respond to the bugs mostly
  03:52 mdz        they're testing the uploader using all breezy packages
  03:53 mdz        (source packages only)
  03:53 mdz        once that's successful, the next test will be replaying all
                   dapper source uploads and actually building them
  03:53 mdz        once all three of those acceptance tests have passed, we'll
                   do the transition
  03:53 Kamion     thanks
  03:53 fabbione   mdz: ETA?
  03:54 mdz        (archive comparison for existing packages, upload test,
                   upload+build test)
  03:54 mdz        fabbione: depends on how many problems are found
  03:54 ajmitch    mdz: will that change anything for us?
  03:54 mdz        could be as soon as this month if things go well
  03:54 infinity   ajmitch : In theory, it should be transparent to the average
  03:54 infinity   (except that build logs will happen differently)
  03:54 mdz        ajmitch: ideally no, but in practice I expect there will be
                   noticeable changes ;-)
  03:54 Kamion     the sync process will probably be different (if not
                   immediately, then soon enough)
  03:54 mdz        ajmitch: we'll post details in the announcement when we know
  03:55 fabbione   mdz: for the sake of security, we will run katie in parallel
                   for sometime?
  03:55 pitti      from what I have heard, yes
  03:55 fabbione   like if we need to roll back from one minute to another
                   fabbione: yes, security uploads will be handled by katie
  03:56 mdz        until the point of being released, when they'll be published
                   through soyuz
  03:56 pitti      for warty, hoary, breezy-security for now
  03:56 fabbione   mdz: i meant security for distro not -security ;)
  03:56 fabbione   like soyuz decides that dapper sucks and trashes everything
                   Same thing, mind you.  If katie/wanna-build/buildd is running
  03:56 infinity   for *-security, we COULD move dapper back to katie if we had
  03:56 infinity   But hopefully, we won't have to.
  03:57 infinity   The infrastructure won't get destroyed willy-nilly, just
                   fabbione: we won't tear down katie, but I don't expect we'll
  03:57 mdz        want to build all of the packages using both soyuz and
                   wanna-build or anything like that
                   No, rebuilding would be pointless, but importing binary
  03:57 infinity   packages back into katie later, if we had to, isn't rocket
  03:57 fabbione   right
  03:58 mdz        it might be possible to copy the soyuz uploads (source and
                   binary) to katie
  03:58 infinity   But here's hoping we don't have to.
  03:58 mdz        I'll follow up on that with kiko/kinnison
  03:58 infinity   Teething problems are expected, complete meltdown of soyuz
  03:58 mdz        ok, we're out of time
  03:58 mdz        thanks, everyone, especially you night-owls ;-)

MeetingLogs/DapperDev_2005-12-08 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:15:42 by localhost)