20070312
Log
TZ UTC+1
07:00 dfarning Looks like it is time to start;) 07:00 BackwardsDown this is my first time, and before it goes off, may I ask you wat a "derative team meeting" is exactly? 07:01 dfarning I just wanted to introduce everyone to the Derivatives Team 07:01 dfarning the derative team is working on making is easier for distro to derive from ubuntu 07:01 BackwardsDown ah k 07:02 BackwardsDown like you are doing with linspire? 07:02 dfarning or mission statement can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam 07:03 dfarning current I am working on how linspire can work within the Ubuntu community 07:04 dfarning currently most of our discussion are on how linsprire and Ubuntu can work together on issues handling 07:04 LaserJock are you a linspire developer? 07:04 dfarning LaserJock, no I am a guy who wanted firefox to not crash;) 07:05 LaserJock maybe a little round of "who's here and from what" might be nice 07:05 dfarning sounds good 07:05 dfarning anyone? 07:06 LaserJock heh 07:06 LaserJock my name is Jordan Mantha and I'm a MOTU and also an Ichthux developer 07:07 LaserJock Ichthux is a Kubuntu derivate, btw 07:07 dfarning LaserJock, I didn't realize you were with Ichthux 07:07 LaserJock *derivative 07:07 LaserJock I've worked with 3 different *buntu derivatives so far 07:07 dfarning I am interested in how you create meta packages 07:07 LaserJock so I'm interested in seeing how this team works ;-) 07:08 LaserJock well, meta packages are fairly easy, as you can look at the Ubuntu examples 07:09 dfarning Well the next issue I want to bring up was our roadmap 07:09 LaserJock we uses seeds just like Ubuntu and basically use the kubuntu-meta package as an example 07:09 dfarning the first order of business is talking to various distos and seeing what we can do to make it easier for them 07:10 dfarning to work with us 07:11 dfarning LaserJock, what could we do to help Ichthux? 07:11 LaserJock well 07:11 LaserJock we've had a lot of success with the items you've mentioned 07:11 LaserJock since the dev team is almost all *buntu contributors 07:11 LaserJock all of our packages are in Universe 07:12 LaserJock we used LP 07:12 LaserJock and we've worked with the installer people on getting customized installtion stuff into Ubuntu 07:12 dfarning Would you mind serving as a resource to other distros 07:13 LaserJock I don't think we would 07:13 dfarning cool 07:13 LaserJock we are a bit dormaint right now, due to various things 07:13 LaserJock but I think we'd be happy to help where we can 07:13 dfarning the most common request I am getting is for help from localizations teams 07:14 LaserJock hmm 07:14 LaserJock what do they need? 07:14 LaserJock I'd think it'd be fairly straightfoward with Reconstructor or UCK 07:14 dfarning do you have a preference between the two tool kits 07:15 LaserJock since we don't use either (and I haven'), no 07:15 dfarning ;( 07:15 LaserJock *haven't 07:15 dfarning I would like to invite both project to join the team 07:16 LaserJock that would be cool 07:16 dfarning they seem to have a lot to offer 07:16 LaserJock yes 07:16 LaserJock I think about the only reason we don't use them is we build our .isos on a server and we have too many customizations to do 07:17 LaserJock but they should be great for localization 07:17 dfarning the next priority is to work with Canonical and Ubuntu to set policies for distros 07:18 dfarning they are working on the trademark issue now 07:18 LaserJock what kind of policies do you imaging? 07:18 LaserJock *imagine 07:18 LaserJock my spelling it terrible today 07:18 dfarning mine too 07:19 LaserJock I think if Canonical and Ubuntu started putting a bunch of "you have to do this" or "you can't do that" it might turn a lot of people away 07:19 LaserJock where they have the right and obligation to do so (trademark for instance) then they should do it 07:19 dfarning statements on how ubuntu will retain source code in their archives 07:19 LaserJock yes, that'll be interesting 07:20 LaserJock since I'm not sure what the FSF thinks of that 07:20 dfarning yes is mostly legal issues 07:20 LaserJock but it'd be good to see that 07:20 LaserJock "Best Practices" would be helpful for sure 07:20 LaserJock I've been pushing for derivatives, as much as possible, to work within Universe 07:21 dfarning I am drafting a letter to the FSF to see if they will issue a statement on source code complience 07:21 dfarning as it affect our team 07:22 dfarning Yes, there are many distro who have been building knowledge and experience for several releases 07:22 LaserJock I think it'd be good to get ahold of as many derivative as possible 07:23 LaserJock see how many are interested in a closer relationship with Ubuntu and other derivatives, etc. 07:23 dfarning ;) 07:23 LaserJock some of them will want nothing to do with it I suspect 07:23 dfarning that has happened all ready 07:23 dfarning many distros want to go their own way 07:24 dfarning hopefully others will see the advantage of working together 07:25 LaserJock well, I think it'd be good to show that it *can* be helpful 07:25 LaserJock I think mostly the Linux derivative model is a bit of a ineasy dislike 07:25 dfarning yes, I that is what got me interest in this project 07:26 dfarning the toss the tarball over the fence attitude 07:27 LaserJock but we've had really good success in Ichthux 07:27 LaserJock our biggest example is that we were able to get patches into the Ubuntu installer 07:27 LaserJock that allowed us to give added language support 07:27 dfarning the third issues that I would like to cover is issues handling 07:28 LaserJock mediation? 07:28 dfarning mediation? 07:29 LaserJock do you mean mediation between Ubuntu and derivatives? 07:29 dfarning sorry bug handing 07:30 LaserJock ah 07:30 dfarning Would like to work with Canoncial and Ubuntu about having use LP 07:30 LaserJock using Launchpad makes all of that much easier 07:30 dfarning having derivatives use LP 07:31 LaserJock well, I think it's very much in Canonical's mind to have Launchpad used by derivatives 07:31 dfarning I agree, but I don't want to commit their resources 07:31 LaserJock several do already for pretty much everything but archive/iso management 07:32 dfarning I believe that Canonical has commerical support agreement with some distos to use LP 07:32 LaserJock well, most derivatives won't need that I don't think 07:33 dfarning I need to follow up with Matthew Revell about that 07:33 LaserJock until they want to start doing a lot of soyuz stuff 07:33 dfarning that is one of the policy type questions 07:33 LaserJock but Ichthux uses Launchpad for basically everything but the website/forums 07:34 LaserJock specifications, bugs, potentially translations 07:34 dfarning yes and from what I have seen it work great for you 07:36 dfarning the forth issues is issue handling (the mediation type) 07:36 LaserJock in the future Launchpad will also have Personal Package Archives which will be handy for derivatives 07:36 LaserJock bazaar.launchpad.net is also very handy 07:37 dfarning really, what are personal package archives? 07:37 cjwatson PPA => "please dpkg-buildpackage this branch and stick the result in a little apt archive" 07:38 LaserJock exactly 07:38 cjwatson approximately 07:38 LaserJock ;-) 07:38 cjwatson heh 07:38 dfarning very helpful 07:38 dfarning https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Governance 07:39 dfarning I just wanted to bring up a draft of our governance document 07:39 LaserJock ok, I have a fundamental question here 07:39 dfarning yes 07:39 LaserJock is there even enough interest to create a Derivative "team"? 07:39 dfarning ;( 07:40 LaserJock I see a lot of teams created that don't really get anywhere 07:40 dfarning Maybe not yet 07:40 LaserJock not trying to be down here 07:40 dfarning but I think their will be 07:40 LaserJock but you're talking policies, collaboration, governance 07:40 LaserJock and there's basically 2 of us here 07:41 dfarning there are a lot of derivative out there that are basically recreating the wheel 07:41 LaserJock right 07:41 gnomefreak 3 07:41 dfarning if will take some perservence 07:41 LaserJock but a team sort of implies people are going to come to the table === gnomefreak just watching 07:42 dfarning The Mozilla Team was just me a few months ago 07:42 LaserJock I was more of a mind to start with the mailing list and wiki namespace to put "best practices" and related info 07:42 LaserJock the Derivative Council is a good idea 07:43 LaserJock but it doesn't seem plausible or potent at this time, IMO 07:44 LaserJock you know what I mean? 07:44 dfarning not yet but I am willing to give it a few months;) 07:44 LaserJock sure 07:44 LaserJock but you also have to take it one step at a time 07:44 LaserJock I think what you've got is a great end goal/roadmap 07:45 dfarning baby steps;) 07:45 LaserJock yes 07:46 pochu 4 07:46 pochu ;) 07:46 dfarning yes first step is to start converstions with derivatives;) 07:46 LaserJock ok, so how many derivatives do we know that might be interested? 07:47 dfarning 10 to 15 07:47 LaserJock are you in contact with them? 07:47 dfarning yes, email and phone;) 07:47 joejaxx i am sorry everyone :\ i am here now 07:47 pochu dfarning: we (spanish team) are thinking in do a Spanish localized Ubuntu :) 07:48 LaserJock ok, so maybe to start with there needs to be a list of member derivatives 07:48 LaserJock hi joejaxx 07:48 leogg dfarning: should also contact the loco teams 07:48 joejaxx hello leogg 07:48 joejaxx LaserJock: * 07:48 leogg hi joejaxx 07:48 joejaxx :) 07:48 dfarning https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives 07:49 dfarning is an incomplete list 07:49 leogg pochu: we (ubuntu-ni) are working on a similar project 07:49 pochu leogg: nicaragua? 07:49 pochu leogg: also ubuntu-co is doing it 07:49 pochu leogg: I'm going to contact everyone interested, to join efforts :) 07:50 dfarning outstanding 07:50 LaserJock dfarning: interesting, 2 out of the 3 derivatives I've work with aren't on there 07:50 leogg pochu: great! 07:50 pochu leogg: please join #ubuntu-es-web ;) 07:50 LaserJock dfarning: what I meant though, was start a derivative membership drive 07:50 pochu dfarning: I'll update that page 07:51 dfarning I am going to have a converation with jono about how to collaborate between locos and the derivaative team 07:51 dfarning thanks for updating your information 07:52 joejaxx dfarning: did you base that list on the canonical one? 07:52 LaserJock joejaxx: is it still Fluxbuntu or have you changed it? 07:52 dfarning can you send me emails also at dfarning@gmail.com so I don't lose track 07:52 joejaxx LaserJock: that might be why, they are not included on it 07:52 joejaxx LaserJock: it is still fluxbuntu at this point 07:52 dfarning yes it was based on the Canonical list 07:53 dfarning adding distros as they introduce themselves 07:53 LaserJock there are many more 07:53 LaserJock so many Ubuntu derivatives ... 07:53 dfarning yes, but as you said baby steps 07:53 LaserJock the MOTU in me wants to cry 07:53 dfarning ;) 07:54 joejaxx :) 07:54 dfarning I have not been doing to much advertising 07:54 LaserJock ok, how about a call to derivatives to participate 07:54 LaserJock I think it'd be good to have a list of participating projects 07:55 dfarning currently, I am approaching them one at a time. 07:55 gnomefreak do most derivatives have mailing lists? if so easy to send them a post :) 07:55 LaserJock joejaxx: does fluxbuntu want to participate? 07:55 LaserJock :-) 07:55 gnomefreak joejaxx: please say yes 07:55 dfarning gnomefreak, some do and some don't 07:56 joejaxx LaserJock: yes :) i was interested the day dfarning sent the mailing list post 07:56 dfarning it is sad how many are orphaned 07:56 LaserJock joejaxx: has _MMA_ talked about it? 07:57 joejaxx dfarning: there is a larger list on the bottom of the ubuntu wiki page on wikipedia.org 07:57 dfarning _MMA_? 07:57 joejaxx LaserJock: not that much i am going to talk to him about it today 07:57 joejaxx dfarning: ubuntu studio :) 07:57 LaserJock dfarning: _MMA_ is the lead of Ubuntu Studio 07:57 dfarning joejaxx, thanks 07:57 joejaxx dfarning: you are most welcome 07:57 dfarning ah 07:58 LaserJock dfarning: I'll talk it over with Ichthux devs but I'm pretty sure we're interested 07:58 gnomefreak joejaxx: what is browser and email default in fluxbuntu? 07:58 dfarning guadlinux is also interested 07:58 dfarning they are a very well done distro! 07:59 LaserJock dfarning: hmmm, what about DerivativeTeam/ParticipatingProjects 07:59 LaserJock with a brief "This is what it means to participate" at the top 07:59 joejaxx gnomefreak: firefox and sylpheed 08:00 dfarning makes sense, this is a work in progress;) 08:00 joejaxx gnomefreak: i was considering mozilla browser but that is not in the repos at this point to my understanding 08:00 gnomefreak joejaxx: you gonna be around in next 24-48 hours? 08:00 joejaxx gnomefreak: yes 08:01 gnomefreak joejaxx: ok ill ping you when i get caught up. do you have a page with list of contributors bychance? 08:01 dfarning Well it has been an hour 08:01 joejaxx gnomefreak: it needs updating :\ 08:01 dfarning enough to think about for one day? 08:02 LaserJock probably 08:02 LaserJock we need that mailing list :/ 08:02 joejaxx yeah :\ 08:02 dfarning I agree 08:02 gnomefreak Ml fairly easy to get 08:02 LaserJock I think most people interested are pretty involved with other things 08:02 dfarning I'll follow up on the RT 08:02 gnomefreak RT? 08:02 LaserJock we should try to keep it fairly low-key 08:03 dfarning request ticket to start a ML 08:03 LaserJock gnomefreak: Request Ticket 08:03 gnomefreak ah 08:03 dfarning Thanks for all the good ideas 08:04 dfarning I think I'll set another meeting in about two week to see where we are at 08:04 joejaxx that sounds good 08:04 gnomefreak that reminds me 08:06 pochu LaserJock: still there? 08:06 LaserJock yeah === LaserJock is always around, it seems like 08:06 pochu hehe 08:06 pochu LaserJock: do you plan to make a gnome version of Ichthux? 08:07 LaserJock pochu: well, there was some thought of that 08:07 LaserJock pochu: we've done a bit of work on making a Xfce version 08:07 LaserJock Ichthux-lite sort of thing 08:07 pochu hmm 08:08 pochu and what about gnome? hehe 08:08 LaserJock but there's really no reason why we couldn't other than willing people 08:08 LaserJock Kubuntu is actually a bit easier to derivatize, IMO 08:08 pochu LaserJock: ah, hehe 08:08 LaserJock becuase of how the layering of configs go 08:08 pochu LaserJock: maybe I can help a little 08:09 LaserJock I'm sure we could work something out (I'm a Gnome guy myself) 08:09 pochu but I'm still learning, so don't wait too much ;) 08:09 pochu LaserJock: so am I :) 08:09 LaserJock well, the other thing is that we're also a Debian-based project 08:09 LaserJock having a few DDs involved 08:10 LaserJock so Ichthux has gone from Knoppix-based -> Kubuntu-based -> in Ubuntu repos -> in Debian repos (in the guture) 08:10 LaserJock *future 08:10 pochu LaserJock: oh, I thought you were ubuntu based :) 08:11 LaserJock well, right now it's kinda hard to say how it exactly goes 08:11 LaserJock it's based off of Kubuntu but the packages are all in Universe 08:11 LaserJock so it's even hard to call it a real derivative since it's developed alongside 08:12 pochu I see 08:12 LaserJock and then when many of the packages get pushed to Debian it'll get even weirder 08:12 LaserJock since we'll actually be our own upstreams ;-) 08:13 pochu hehe 08:13 pochu that might be annoying :) 08:13 LaserJock pochu: anyway, if you're interested there's #ichthux and #ichthux-devel 08:14 pochu LaserJock: didn't know :)
MeetingLogs/Derivatives/20070312 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:34 by localhost)