06:01   DBO2    ok ladies and gents, shall we begin?  despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present
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06:01   Camus_SoNiCo    before we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them
06:02   DBO2    yes
06:02   stgraber        There is a page in the wiki
06:02   DBO2    this channel is logged
06:02   gnomefreak      this channel is logged
06:02   DBO2    i win
06:02   gnomefreak      :)
06:02   Camus_SoNiCo    ok, great
06:02   givre ;)
=== gnomefreak is JOhn Vivirito
=== Camus_SoNiCo is Camus SoNiCo :P
06:03   DBO2    ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?
06:03   gnomefreak      lol
06:03   gnomefreak      yeah me
06:04   DBO2    gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...
06:04   gnomefreak      is joel here?
06:04   lupine_85       me :)
06:04   stgraber        me :)
06:04   Camus_SoNiCo    me too, but i'm willing to develop
06:04   gnomefreak      rouben here?
06:04   lupine_85       (well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)
06:04   gnomefreak      henrickomma here?
06:05   DBO2    Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that
06:05   Camus_SoNiCo    Ok
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06:05   gnomefreak      who is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm  and DBO2
06:05   DBO2    im not devel
06:05   cyberorg        <- sort of
06:05   gnomefreak      DBO2: your working on themes arnt you?
06:06   DBO2    but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager
06:06   gnomefreak      ah ok
06:06   DBO2    iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm
06:06   gnomefreak      ok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)
06:07   DBO2    lupine_85 is a big help
06:07   DBO2    hes there a lot
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06:07   lupine_85       am I?
06:07   gnomefreak      we are in need of people helping in there
06:07   gnomefreak      lupine_85: yes
06:07   lupine_85       cor
06:07   DBO2    lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?
06:07   gnomefreak      it seems so
06:07   DBO2    gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)
06:07   DBO2    First order of business is the wiki pages
06:08   DBO2    those need an entire overhaul
06:08   DBO2    beryl 0.1 has been pre-released
06:08   DBO2    and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git
06:09   gnomefreak      myself and DBO2  have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them
06:09   DBO2    I have some experience writing these walkthroughs
06:09   gnomefreak      DBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?
06:09   iXce    gnomefreak : official one :o)
06:09   DBO2    so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project
06:10   gnomefreak      iXce: there is?
06:10   DBO2    gnomefreak, yes just today
06:10   gnomefreak      ok good
06:10   lupine_85       amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up
06:10   Quinn_Storm     the same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn
06:10   gnomefreak      lets use that for the wikis than
06:10   DBO2    yeah
06:10   DBO2    we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz
06:11   DBO2    which will be fairly easy
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06:11   gnomefreak      is this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?
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06:11   DBO2    thats the hope
06:11   iXce    edgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)
06:11   DBO2    I am hoping to work the MOTU on this
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06:12   gnomefreak      iXce: its pretty late for edgy
06:12   lupine_85       are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?
06:12   gnomefreak      universe freeze started yesterday
06:12   DBO2    and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it
06:12   shawarma        gnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.
06:12   cyberorg        I guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl
06:12   Quinn_Storm     edgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy
06:12   DBO2    for edgy+1 that is
06:12   DBO2    cyberorg, I agree with that
06:12   DBO2    Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to
06:13   DBO2    but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git
06:13   cyberorg        makes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager
06:13   Quinn_Storm     well if you guys want, we can work that in
06:13   Quinn_Storm'll just be supported like any other WM is
06:13   DBO2    thats fine
06:13   Quinn_Storm     unless you guys want to take a crack at it
06:14   cyberorg        thats all is needed
06:14   gnomefreak      so to use compiz you install beryl-manager?
06:14   cyberorg        i can look into it
06:14   DBO2    gnomefreak, no its just an option
06:14   gnomefreak      oh ok
06:14   DBO2    and it adds consistancy to how they are launched
06:14   gnomefreak      ok that sounds good than
06:15   Quinn_Storm     yeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible
06:15   DBO2    makes walkthroughs easier too
06:15   DBO2    ok so that covers with wiki and that segway
=== lupine_85 would like a "start automatically" option in beryl-manager.. . rather than adding it to sessions manually
06:15   gnomefreak      Quinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?
06:15   Quinn_Storm     for now
06:15   gnomefreak      lupine_85: how about a login option?
06:15   Quinn_Storm     wait
06:15   cyberorg        lupine_85: put that on bugtracker
06:15   Quinn_Storm     compiz?
06:16   Quinn_Storm     I guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs
06:16   DBO2    Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?
06:16   DBO2    we can get a packager for that
06:16   Quinn_Storm     well I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it
06:16   DBO2    would you be willing to add it in?
06:16   gnomefreak      Quinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?
06:16   Quinn_Storm     gnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself
06:17   DBO2    ok thats good
06:17   DBO2    I will begin searching for someone to do packaging
06:17   iXce    reggaemanu?
06:17   DBO2    perhaps
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06:17   gnomefreak      lol speaking of
06:18   DBO2    speak of the turkey =)
06:18   gnomefreak      ok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both
06:19   DBO2    the repo is the same as the old compiz repo
06:19   gnomefreak      that way we can build the wiki's around them
06:19   DBO2 I believe
06:19   reggaemanu      hi
06:19   Quinn_Storm     well as you know we're already ready w/ beryl
06:19   Quinn_Storm     I pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning
06:19   Quinn_Storm     and nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs
06:19   gnomefreak      Quinn_Storm: ah
06:19   iXce
06:19   DBO2    do we have someone doing 64 dapper?
06:20   lupine_85       Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?
06:20   reggaemanu      DBO, we should use no ;) but the repo is the same yeah
06:20   reggaemanu      oops, it was for DBO2 :p
06:20   lupine_85       actually, I should point them both to the same one...
06:20   DBO2    reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC
06:20   lupine_85       that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well
06:21   DBO2    lupine_85, thats not a bad idea
06:21   lupine_85       it's running now
06:21   gnomefreak      beryl = edgy and up only right?
06:21   DBO2    no
06:21   DBO2    it runs on dapper too
06:21   Quinn_Storm     no it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz
06:21   gnomefreak      ok
06:21   DBO2    mostly just libxcomposite
06:21   Quinn_Storm     yeah
06:22   DBO2    those backports should stay in place please =)
06:22   DBO2    ok, to recap gnomefreak
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06:22   DBO2    we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:23   DBO2    we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together
06:23   DBO2    so she is free to develop
06:23   gnomefreak      ok i like that
06:23   DBO2    nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy
06:23   DBO2    and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper
06:23   reggaemanu      i can do it for compiz-git and beryl 32
06:23   DBO2    edgy or dapper?
06:23   reggaemanu      (edgy)
06:24   gnomefreak      k
06:24   DBO2    gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am
06:24   reggaemanu      dapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless
06:24   gnomefreak      yeah give me a sec
06:24   lupine_85       I have 32 and 64 edgy
=== Quinn_Storm pbuilders dapper too anyway
06:25   DBO2    yeah but you are stopping that =P
06:25   xopher  I could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess
06:25   lupine_85       I meant for packaging official: [17:22]  <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:25   gnomefreak      DBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?
06:25   DBO2    gnomefreak, beryl edgy
06:26   gnomefreak      k
06:26   lupine_85       unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.
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06:27   gnomefreak      so reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?
06:27   DBO2    officially yes
06:27   DBO2    we  want to replace quinn
06:28   DBO2    we can see if Amaranth wants the job
06:28   iXce    ahem
06:28   DBO2    he was already packaging
06:28   reggaemanu      we need someone else for dapper
06:28   DBO2    iXce, did we miss you?
06:28   iXce    what's the problem with quinn doing some packages?
06:28   DBO2    iXce, she shouldnt have to
06:28   DBO2    it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere
06:28   iXce    yeah
06:29   iXce    that's right :)
06:29   Camus_SoNiCo    let her to some magic :P
06:29   DBO2    her time is far too valuable to have her packaging
06:29   iXce    and maybe should svn be less distro-specific
06:30   DBO2    thats really up to the dev team
06:30   DBO2    but you will find no qualms here
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06:30   iXce    bbl
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06:30   gnomefreak      ok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it.
06:30   gnomefreak      and we need some more
06:31   lupine_85       Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay
06:32   lupine_85       erm, him"
06:32   stgraber        I'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging
06:32   DBO2    gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info
06:32   gnomefreak      info on what?
06:33   DBO2    packaging
06:33   gnomefreak      noted
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06:33   gnomefreak      wecome Xnix
06:33   DBO2    ok next
06:33   gnomefreak      welcome even
06:33   Xnix    howdy
06:33   DBO2    as far as bug reports go
06:34   DBO2    all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker
06:34   gnomefreak      DBO2: got a handy link?
06:34   DBO2
=== lupine_85 bookmarks
06:35   DBO2    on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails
06:35   gnomefreak      agreed
06:35   Xnix    how do we get on those?
06:35   Xnix    i keep up with it, but didnt know there was email
06:35   gnomefreak      DBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?
06:36   Quinn_Storm     we're in the process of fixing that
06:36   gnomefreak      k
06:36   DBO2    gnomefreak, yes and no
06:36   gnomefreak      DBO2: we can get together later about that
06:36   DBO2    gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...
06:36   reggaemanu      the login still don't work
06:36   DBO2    we will have to talk on that later
06:36   gnomefreak      DBO2: agreed
06:36   gnomefreak      brb phone
06:37   DBO2    Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?
06:37   Quinn_Storm     Generally...probably not...I hate their interface
06:37   reggaemanu      anyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-
06:37   DBO2    Quinn_Storm, ok
06:37   reggaemanu      gnome-session need some patch too
06:38   mjg59   reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship
06:38   DBO2    reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?
06:38   DBO2    mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue
06:38   reggaemanu      mjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl
06:39   mjg59   reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi
06:39   reggaemanu      and there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver
06:39   reggaemanu      so you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p
06:39   mjg59   I've used it extensively with the X server we ship
06:39   DBO2    are you using xgl or aiglx?
06:39   mjg59   aiglx
06:39   mjg59   That is, the X server we ship
06:39   iXce    reggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now
06:40   DBO2    iXce, ok thats fine then
06:40   DBO2    Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help
06:40   reggaemanu      mjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?
06:40   reggaemanu      that's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog
06:40   mjg59   reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.
06:41   Camus_SoNiCo    yes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs
06:41   iXce    mjg59 : we already did
06:41   reggaemanu      everybody is aware of that since around 6 month...
06:41   Xnix    reggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl
06:41   Xnix    in Xgl
06:41   DBO2    Xnix, thats xgl
06:41   DBO2    doesnt have the issue
06:41   reggaemanu      Xnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...
06:41   Xnix    ahh ok
06:41   mjg59   Oh, that's interesting
06:41   DBO2    its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue
06:41   mjg59   Why don't I get compiz bugs?
06:41   reggaemanu      (adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)
06:41   lupine_85       logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)
06:41   reggaemanu      s/adn/and
06:42   mjg59   I used to
06:42   lupine_85       erm, but KDE
06:42   iXce    but it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default
06:42   iXce    and it's a gnome-session bug
06:42   reggaemanu      lupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^
06:42   lupine_85       yep - noticed that after $13$10
06:42   lupine_85       ;)
06:43   DBO2    ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now
06:43   reggaemanu      libwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring
=== Camus_SoNiCo wants to know de diff between Xgl and AIGLX
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06:43   DBO2    Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg
06:43   DBO2    both however provide a means to get TFP
06:44   DBO2    (amoung other things)
06:44   gnomefreak      ok sorry about htat
06:44   givre   mjg59:
06:44   Ubugtu  Malone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
06:44   Camus_SoNiCo    DBO2, thanks
06:44   DBO2    the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo
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06:44   Camus_SoNiCo    ah, great for games ;)
06:44   DBO2    and videa
06:44   DBO2    video
06:45   mjg59   givre: Thanks
06:45   Camus_SoNiCo    DBO2, i should switch then :P
06:45   DBO2    Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues
06:45   stgraber        If the driver can work with AIGLX ...
06:45   DBO2    guys
06:45   Camus_SoNiCo    DBO2, it has issues with nvidia?
06:45   DBO2    I got to run
06:46   DBO2    Camus_SoNiCo, yes
06:46   Camus_SoNiCo    ups :S
06:46   gnomefreak      i have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than
06:46   DBO2    gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)
06:46   gnomefreak      DBO2: where are we?
06:46   DBO2    gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl
06:47   reggaemanu      the patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo
06:47   DBO2    ill be back later tonight gnomefreak
=== lupine_85 knows what he would like to see in the (any) repos... : kicker-compiz
06:47   gnomefreak      ok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?
06:47   gnomefreak      DBO2: ok go for it
06:48   gnomefreak      i +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in
06:48   mjg59   Oh
06:48   mjg59   No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch
06:48   mjg59   It's mad
06:49   mjg59   There has to be a better way to fix that
06:49   reggaemanu      mjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody
06:49   lupine_85       it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu
06:49   mjg59   reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.
06:49   reggaemanu      mjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)
06:49   mjg59   reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...
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06:50   lupine_85       won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.2
06:50   lupine_85       it#'s 3.5.4 I think
06:50   iXce    wow Matthew Garett is here :)
06:50   gnomefreak      iXce: he is
06:50   reggaemanu      :)
06:50   iXce    that's great :)
06:51   mjg59   The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is
06:51   gnomefreak      is gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?
06:51   mjg59   Yes
06:51   gnomefreak      k
06:51   reggaemanu      gnomefreak, yeah
06:51   reggaemanu      that's the last release before it has been removed
06:52   gnomefreak      would it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?
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06:53   Quinn_Storm     gnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)
06:53   mjg59   As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae
06:53   iXce    Quinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^
06:54   lupine_85       hehe
06:54   iXce    mjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?
06:54   lupine_85       it will be if I start on it!
06:54   reggaemanu      ^^
06:54   gnomefreak      iXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it
06:54   mjg59   iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment
06:54   mjg59   Putting it in .gnomerc should do
06:54   iXce    and if i've got no .gnomerc?
06:54   mjg59   iXce: Create one? :)
06:54   lupine_85       .bashrc? .xsession ?
06:54   mjg59   I believe it's used by default
06:54   gnomefreak      compiz will have to stay around for a while anyway
06:55   iXce    mjg59 : great idea :p
06:55   iXce    gnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl
06:55   mjg59   In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best
06:55   iXce    documentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^
06:55   Xnix    iXce what do you mean?
06:55   reggaemanu      so that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc
06:55   Xnix    iXce ahh k
06:56   mjg59   That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle
06:56   mjg59   Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then
06:56   mjg59   Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability
06:57   gnomefreak      if we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?
06:57   Quinn_Storm     what he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model
06:57   iXce    mjg59 : i fully agree with that :)
06:57   reggaemanu      gnomefreak, that should be possible
06:58   gnomefreak      reggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out
06:58   reggaemanu      gnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not
06:58   gnomefreak      k
06:58   reggaemanu      that's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse
06:58   mjg59   So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?
06:59   mjg59   That would seem the sensible thing to do
06:59   iXce    +1
06:59   gnomefreak      i agree also
06:59   reggaemanu      mjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that
06:59   mjg59   reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?
06:59   reggaemanu      it checks for the tfp extension
06:59   reggaemanu      mjg59, yeah, 2 seconds
06:59   mjg59   reggaemanu: Thanks
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06:59   mjg59   I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable
=== Camus_SoNiCo will leave soon and wants to know how to help on development
07:00   iXce    that's much more sensible :)
07:00   Xnix    yes
07:00   reggaemanu      i don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere
07:01   gnomefreak      Camus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help
07:02   Camus_SoNiCo    gnomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also
07:02   gnomefreak      Camus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with
07:02   gnomefreak      Camus_SoNiCo: we will
07:02   iXce    hmm
07:02   mjg59   Ok
07:02   mjg59   By the way:
07:02   gnomefreak      Camus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up
07:02   iXce    is there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?
07:03   mjg59   I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves
07:03   mjg59   But
07:03   Camus_SoNiCo    gnomefreak, great then
07:03   Xnix    wiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo
07:03   Xnix    gnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)
07:03   mjg59   If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me
07:03   lupine_85       one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?
07:03   mjg59   Like this gnome-session issue, for example
07:03   mjg59   Oh, yeah, while I'm at it
07:03   lupine_85       e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension
07:04   reggaemanu      mjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs
07:04   Camus_SoNiCo    Xnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...
07:04   Xnix    yeah
07:05   mjg59   reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it
07:05   mjg59   Give me a minute and I'll test
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07:05   mjg59   Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?
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07:06   lupine_85       mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...
07:06   gnomefreak      lupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working
07:06   iXce    oh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages
07:06   reggaemanu      mjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding
07:07   mjg59   Ok
07:07   mjg59   So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?
07:08   lupine_85       it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)
07:08   mjg59   If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf
07:08   Xnix    yeah
07:08   iXce    mjg59 : even for intel chips?
07:08   mjg59   It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that
07:08   mjg59   iXce: That's what I use
07:09   iXce    oh :)
07:09   iXce    no XAAOffscreenPixmap then?
07:09   reggaemanu      lupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that
07:09   mjg59   iXce: That's handled magically
07:10   lupine_85       oh, right... I must be out of date ;)
07:10   iXce    great :)
07:10   Xnix    lupine_85 edgy?
07:10   lupine_85       yes
07:10   lupine_85       I meant in the knowledge stakes though
07:10   rodarvus        XAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver
07:10   Xnix    hmm strange, mine was set by default
07:10   Xnix    lupine_85 ahh
07:10   lupine_85       but doesn't fglrx need it off?
07:10   lupine_85       erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course
07:10   mjg59   It's done in the X server
07:11   mjg59   Through a foul hack
07:11   reggaemanu      maybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)
07:11   Xnix    alright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later
07:12   reggaemanu      i gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after
07:14   iXce    cigarette killed everyone ^^
07:14   rodarvus        mjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu8
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07:15   mjg59   rodarvus: Yeah
07:15   ThiefOfBaghdad  Err.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting
07:15   rodarvus        (I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)
07:15   gnomefreak      @schedule
07:15   Ubugtu  Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
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07:16   tuxmaniac       clear
07:16   tuxmaniac       bah.. terminal
07:16   tuxmaniac       gnomefreak> hi. is it still on?
07:17   gnomefreak      ok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are
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07:17   tuxmaniac       gnomefreak> ok. good
07:17   iXce    not so much notes ^^
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07:18   tuxmaniac       :(
07:18   gnomefreak      iXce: i have a few notes :)
07:18   iXce    :)
07:18   tuxmaniac       gnomefreak> one small question
07:18   gnomefreak      tuxmaniac: yes?
07:18   tuxmaniac       Can the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects
07:18   tuxmaniac       rather than having it as ubuntu-xgl
07:18   tuxmaniac       was this discussed?
07:19   tuxmaniac       I mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around
07:19   tuxmaniac       Just a suggstion
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07:20   gnomefreak      tuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him
07:20   tuxmaniac       gnomefreak> great!
07:21   iXce    what's the ml?
07:21   Quinn_Storm     I've gotta head out guys
07:21   tuxmaniac       iXce> Mailing list
07:21   iXce    i mean, where is it?
07:21   Quinn_Storm     sleeptime
07:21   iXce    tuxmaniac : yeah i know :)
07:21   iXce    night quinn
07:21   iXce    arg
07:21   tuxmaniac       iXce> :P
07:21   stgraber        iXce:
07:22   tuxmaniac       stgraber> you are quicker than me :D
07:22   stgraber        :)
07:22   iXce    thanks
07:22   stgraber        np
07:27   heno    are we still on the agenda somewhere?
07:29   mjg59   For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now
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07:31   Laifen  re
07:31   iXce    hi Laifen
07:32   Laifen  Hi iXce
07:32   heno    mjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)
07:33   heno    currently the magnifier seems fairly static
07:33   mjg59   I'm not really sure how that's meant to work
07:34   mjg59   Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing
07:34   heno    as in the fuctionality or the implementation?
07:34   heno    right
07:34   mjg59   I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect
07:34   heno    is that who I should poke about it?
07:34   mjg59   It's worth asking him
07:35   heno    anyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?
07:35   heno    or anyone likely to be at Mountain View?
07:36   iXce    Quinn_Storm and onestone
07:36   heno    iXce: thanks I'll try them too
07:37   iXce    it's about beryl, right?
07:37   heno    iXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do
07:37   heno    it's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people
07:38   heno    Has anyone here tried gnome-mag?
07:38   heno    in gnopernicus or Orca
07:38   heno    You'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier
07:38   heno    on performance
07:39   heno    But has a few crucial features
07:39   heno    see: for more info
07:43   mjg59   reggaemanu: Uploaded
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07:45   reggaemanu      mjg59, gnome-session patched? :)
07:45   mjg59   Yes
07:45   reggaemanu      cool
07:45   givr1   mjg59: great
07:46   reggaemanu      there is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p
07:46   reggaemanu      ^^
07:47   mjg59   I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?
07:47   reggaemanu      we have
07:47   reggaemanu      there is already a patched package in repo
07:47   reggaemanu      but i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring
07:48   mjg59   reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?
07:48   mjg59   And can you point me to the bug/patch?
07:48   reggaemanu      mjg59,
07:48   reggaemanu      and no there is definitively no problem
07:49   mjg59   reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented
07:49   reggaemanu      it change nothing for non compiz users
07:49   mjg59   Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?
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07:50   reggaemanu      mjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)
07:51   reggaemanu      mjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity
07:51   reggaemanu      window move is needed for the viewport patch
07:51   mjg59   reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?
07:51   iXce    mjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/
07:52   mjg59   I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck
07:52   mjg59   We have desktops.
07:52   reggaemanu      mjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)
07:52   mjg59   What's the difference between desktops and viewports?
07:52   reggaemanu      a workspace can contain many viewports
07:53   mjg59   Will this ever actually happen?
07:53   mjg59   I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?
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07:54   reggaemanu      compiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs
07:54   mjg59   No, that doesn't answer my question
07:54   mjg59   Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?
07:54   mjg59   (As in, more than one of each)
07:55   reggaemanu      we don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace
07:55   mjg59   So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"
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07:55   mjg59   "Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users
07:56   lupine_85       the distinction is important if you run KDE :(
07:56   mjg59   Oh argh.
07:57   lupine_85       standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports
07:57   mjg59   Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.
07:57   lupine_85       sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up
07:58   mjg59   So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.
07:58   mjg59   Is that right?
07:59   reggaemanu      mjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch
07:59   reggaemanu      (those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)
07:59   mjg59   Ridiculous hatred
08:00   mjg59   What does the appearance one actually do?
08:00   mjg59   Set opacity with wnck?
08:01   mjg59   Neat toy. So not getting in :)
08:01   iXce    appearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think
08:01   reggaemanu      mjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://
08:02   reggaemanu
08:02   reggaemanu      erf
08:02   reggaemanu
08:02   reggaemanu      _
08:03   mjg59   Ok
08:03   mjg59   I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one
08:04   mjg59   I'll see if I can sneak them in
08:05   reggaemanu      there is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on about these patchs but there is no reply
08:05   reggaemanu      that should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)
08:05   reggaemanu      everybody use it since before dapper
08:06   reggaemanu      and i'm tired to re-package it everytime
08:07   reggaemanu      it's not a really important patch that's true
08:07   reggaemanu      but users like that :/
08:07   reggaemanu      anyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later
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08:38   Xnix    reggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?
08:38   mjg59   Xnix: Yes
08:39   Xnix    mjg59 awesome :D
08:39   Xnix    and those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet
08:40   mjg59   Not yet
08:40   Xnix    alright
08:41   Xnix    thanks

MeetingLogs/DesktopEffects-2006-9-29 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:24:12 by localhost)