DocTeam_2006-03-17
10:06 mdke who's around?
10:07 LaserJock I am
=== manicka nods
10:08 mdke cool
10:08 mdke shall we get straight into it?
10:08 trappist let's do, this is the only thing keeping me from going home :)
10:08 mdke agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
first up, Author attribution - proposal is to have the author of every
10:09 mdke document as the Documentation Team, with the team email address. Individual
contributors can then be listed in the <legalnotice> tag.
10:09 mdke we've already discussed this briefly in the chan
10:09 mdke anyone have any clarifications/questions/worries?
10:09 LaserJock ok, so where exactly are we setting this?
10:09 LaserJock in bookinfo.xml or the omf file?
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10:09 mdke in each document, wherever it is relevant
10:10 mdke it's in the <bookinfo> tag yeah, but that may not always be a separate file
10:10 Burgwork works for me
10:10 trappist I'm not sure I like it - I think that info is less useful than an actual
author's name
10:10 mdke to my mind, the ideal example is this:
https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml
10:10 trappist but I haven't really thought it through
10:10 trappist what's the argument for it?
10:11 mdke trappist, i think docs look better when they come from a team, rather than
individuals.
10:11 Burgwork we have a single contact, the doc team
10:11 mdke and it's better for contact details, as Burg says
10:11 Burgwork because as some of us have seen, sometimes teams are revolving doors, while
the team is constant
10:11 LaserJock mdke: ok, but what about the omf files. They have <creator>, <maintainer>,
and <contributor> tages?
10:11 trappist that does make sense
10:12 mdke LaserJock, i would say creator+maintainer = team, and contributor =
individuals
10:12 mdke not sure
10:13 LaserJock the only thing I would like to have is some separation a far as what doc
team members are "in charge" of each doc
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10:13 mdke LaserJock, yes, that's why I like the way you've done it in the packaging
guide bookinfo
10:13 LaserJock I agree ;-)
10:13 LaserJock but I think I need to change the omf file
10:14 mdke yes
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10:14 mdke hi jjesse
10:14 jjesse hello
10:14 mdke jjesse, we're on item 1
10:14 jjesse ok, grabing the agenda
10:16 jjesse any decision made on that?
10:16 trappist so author=team, maintainer=maintainer and contributors=a list?
10:16 mdke jjesse, the general feeling is pro, what are your views?
10:16 mdke trappist, precisely
10:16 jjesse i have no problem with it
10:17 trappist mdke: as opposed to author/maintainer=team
10:17 jjesse for example in the release notes i included some authors in the list but
missed some and was asked about it
10:17 jjesse i like trappist idea author=team maint. = maintainer
10:18 manicka a contributor list should be more than enough
trappist, yes. in
10:18 mdke https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml
you'd have the maintainers and contributors in the <legalnotice> tag, and
the author (docteam) in the <authorgroup> tag
10:19 trappist I don't see a maintainer - as in, who's "in charge of" that particular doc
10:19 mdke trappist, right, that would be added to that file
10:19 trappist which is useful info, at least for me
10:19 trappist gotcha
10:19 jjesse confused a little
10:20 jjesse maintainer would be the person "in charge" of that doc, like laserjock for
kubuntu destkop guide
a bit like this:
10:20 mdke https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/bookinfo.xml
except maybe the maintainer list could be separate from the contributors
10:20 jjesse ?
10:20 trappist in that case, +1 to the proposal as I understand it
10:20 mdke jjesse, sure, except its robotgeek :)
10:20 jjesse grin i never keep it straight
=== mdke inserts an apostrophe in "its" before trappist sees
=== trappist puts away his apostrophe-shaped cluebat
10:21 mdke ok, everyone seems in favour
10:21 mdke any more comments?
10:21 jjesse so for the docs we have to redo and add a bookinfo.xml file?
10:21 jjesse cause i know releasenotes and about kubuntu don't have them
10:21 mdke jjesse, no no. You can do it all in one file too
10:21 mdke jjesse, it's in the <bookinfo> tag in release-notes.xml and
about-kubuntu.xml
10:22 jjesse ah sorry, brain is fried from a long work week
10:22 mdke i know the feeling :/
10:22 mdke all clear?
10:22 jjesse yes
10:22 LaserJock I think so
10:23 mdke LaserJock, go ahead if it's not
10:23 LaserJock mdke: so the packaging guide is ok? I just need to adjust the omf file
10:23 mdke LaserJock, you should adjust the list in bookinfo.xml so that it is clear
you are the maintainer. Maybe even split the list into two lists
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10:23 mdke IMO
10:24 LaserJock mdke: ok, maybe you should send a sample (template) to the list so everybody
can see
10:24 mdke ok
10:24 mdke it's two lists already actually
10:25 LaserJock I just split it into "doc team members" and "contributors"
10:26 mdke LaserJock, something like this: http://pastebin.com/608084
10:26 mdke except without the grammatical errors
10:26 LaserJock that looks good to me
10:26 mdke note: I've also changed the authorgroup to use the entity, but that is
trivial
10:27 LaserJock and then in the omf I would have author == doc project and maintainer ==
laserjock
10:28 mdke creator == doc project, I suppose. there isn't an "author"
10:28 trappist that does make more sense
10:28 LaserJock there isn't?
10:28 LaserJock doh, there isn't
10:28 LaserJock ok, I'm all good
10:29 mdke great
=== netzmeister [n=netzmeis@p549F8D01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:29 mdke next item: Internal doc freeze dates? What/when are we giving docs to
translators?
10:30 mdke we haven't heard back from the TB about the doc freeze yet
10:30 jjesse remember that this will be the first time that kubuntu docs will be included
in rosetta
10:30 LaserJock ok, so I was talking with Keybuk in -devel about the doc freeze
10:30 mdke me too
10:30 mdke he seemed happy but said to wait for the rest of the TB
10:31 LaserJock he thought the present scheme on wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule was
good
10:31 mdke erm
10:31 mdke that is kinda the opposite of what we've been saying on the thread on the
mailing list
10:31 mdke it is a 6 week delay
10:32 LaserJock exactly
10:32 LaserJock that is my point
10:32 jjesse i thought on the mailing list we talked about a 2 week delay for the docs
10:32 mdke when I spoke to him today he was happy about amending that to 2 weeks
10:32 LaserJock mdke: ok, I talked to him yesterday I think
10:32 LaserJock he must have changed his mind ;-)
10:32 mdke LaserJock, I'm pushier than you :)
10:32 mdke I'm really against a 6 week delay
10:33 LaserJock well, the point he brought up was that UI Freeze was also pushed 6 weeks
10:33 mdke those poor translations are gonna have like 10 times the strings they had
for breezy, and even then it wasn't enough time
10:33 LaserJock so we will freeze before UI Freeze
10:33 mdke I don't have a problem with that, as I said in my email. what do others
think?
10:34 trappist I don't have my head around what needs to be done or how much time we
*need*, so I don't really have an opinion.
10:34 LaserJock Corey didn't think that the UI freeze would affect much and I tend to agree.
I think the changes should be pretty small
10:34 LaserJock but I'm not writing a doc heavily using the UI ;-)
10:35 mdke I agree too. I think that any changes can be sorted out by us changing and
notifying the translator list
10:35 mdke but I'm still keen on freezing early formally, rather than informally
10:35 LaserJock agreed, so +2 weeks on all docs?
10:36 mdke can the packaging guide handle it?
10:36 LaserJock I sure hope so
10:36 mdke heh
10:36 LaserJock 2 extra weeks will good
10:36 LaserJock It might not have as much polish as the rest of the docs
10:36 trappist I can polish
10:36 mdke any more thoughts on this? votes +1 or -1 for 2 weeks (subject to TB
approval):
10:36 LaserJock +1
10:37 trappist +1
10:37 mdke +1
10:37 mdke Burgwork, jjesse, mgalvin, manicka ^
10:37 manicka +1
10:37 Burgwork +1
=== Burgwork has no idea what he just voted for
10:38 mdke lol
10:38 mdke Burgwork, 2 week extension on the freeze, rather than 6
10:38 Burgwork sounds good
10:38 mgalvin +1
10:39 LaserJock my biggest concern with the packaging guide is that it won't have much
developer review, but I think I'll have to wait for Dapper+1 for that
10:39 mdke ok, that brings us onto the next one
10:39 mdke Current doc status. Where are we at with each doc?
10:39 mdke go LaserJock
10:40 LaserJock umm, well, uhhh
10:40 LaserJock I'm getting there
10:40 LaserJock I'm pretty happy with the introduction and getting started chapters
10:40 LaserJock I think trappist could work his magic there
10:41 mdke so, packaging guide and server guide would appear to be good targets for
trappist and other like minded magic-workers
10:41 mdke the desktop guide is looking good, I think. How about kubuntu stuff? <--
jjesse
10:41 LaserJock I was supposed to get help from other MOTUs etc. but that hasn't shown up. I
think I'll have to brute force it :(
10:41 trappist I've already been busy on serverguide. I can make time for packaging guide
once LaserJock's got it stable.
10:42 mdke trappist, any idea which chapters are missing from serverguide? it's nearly
there, right?
10:42 LaserJock ok, so I wanted to bring up status reports in relation to this
10:42 trappist yeah, it is. some network-config stuff, a lot of email stuff and maybe some
firewall stuff still needs work iirc
10:43 mdke LaserJock, what's on your mind?
10:43 trappist oh and wireless.
10:43 LaserJock ok, I think all the docs should have status reports, and we should be using
them for this stuff
10:43 trappist I totally agree.
10:44 LaserJock I'm not sure exactly what I need to do that
10:44 mdke LaserJock, we've been getting better at status reports recently. they are
generally up to date, I think. BUT there is one major problem
10:44 trappist the serverguide has one that seems pretty up to date and it's been very
useful to me, looking for stuff to work on
10:44 mdke if you take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/sg-report.html,
you'll see that far too many sections have tags
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10:44 mdke even the really minor sub-sub-sub sections have them
10:44 mdke which is really confusing
10:44 LaserJock I agree
10:45 trappist mdke: what about a tree-view status report, then?
10:45 mdke we could write up a wiki page about status tags
10:45 mdke trappist, that would rock. no idea how to do it
10:45 trappist how are these status reports generated?
10:46 mdke trappist, in the Makefile, in a similar way to the html previews
10:46 trappist I'll look into that and see if I can make it happen
10:46 LaserJock ok, so looking at the Projects wiki, I don't see links to many of the
Kubuntu doc status reports or the packaging guide and style guide
10:46 mdke I would tend to prioritise that quite low
10:46 mdke maybe even dapper+1, if we only have 3 weeks left
10:47 trappist yeah
10:47 LaserJock mdke: so do I need to tweak the Makefile to generate a status report?
10:47 mdke LaserJock, you may have to add an entry for the packaging guide yeah
10:47 LaserJock ok
10:47 mdke LaserJock, and you'll need status tags in the doc, if you haven't got them
already
10:48 LaserJock I've got 1 so far for trappist ;-)
10:48 LaserJock but I'll go through and add the rest
10:48 mdke cool
10:48 mdke the various tags are at the bottom of the Projects wiki page
10:49 LaserJock ok, so I guess I'll put "review" when I'm ready for some word nazi action?
10:49 mdke that's it
10:49 LaserJock k, I'll get it done ASAP
10:50 mdke okies. next issue
10:50 mdke Screenshots? How many and for what docs? How will the UI Freeze affect them?
10:50 LaserJock ok, so that was for Madpilot kinda
10:50 LaserJock I noticed there was some discussion about including screenshots in the user
guides
=== mdke nods
10:51 mdke placeholders need to be in before string freeze, but they can be
taken/updated after that, if things change before UI Freeze.
10:51 LaserJock yeah, and they wouldn't be translated ...
10:51 trappist I think nobody should be taking screenshots until after the ui freeze
10:52 LaserJock should we make a list of screenshots we need for each doc? maybe on a wiki?
10:52 trappist so there won't be any wasted effort, and we should have time then, due to
the string freeze
10:52 mdke LaserJock, they should just be inserted into the document, in my opinion.
then they can be taken later, as trappist says
I was just thinking that the authors could put up a list of screenshots
10:54 LaserJock (that need to be done) for each doc and then people could attach them. It
might go a little faster that way
10:54 LaserJock just a thought
=== LaserJock notes the silence. Must have been a grand though ;-)
10:55 LaserJock thought
10:55 mdke it might work. But making a list of screenshots is not a lot slower than
adding placeholders into the doc directly
10:55 mdke slower/faster *
10:56 LaserJock mdke: I mean after the placeholders are in
10:56 trappist mdke: but looking at a list is faster than looking for placeholders
10:56 mdke ah sure
10:56 mdke yes, agreed
10:56 mdke we should have plenty of time to do that after the strings are frozen, as
trappist says
10:56 LaserJock I was thinking that way that the author could solicit screenshots ;-)
10:56 mdke yeah, good plan, my bad
10:57 LaserJock ok, so we use placeholders until after the UI Freeze, right?
10:57 mdke that's right
10:58 LaserJock ok, next item?
10:58 mdke Do we have any prioritization of wiki pages (cleanup) that should be done
before Dapper is released?
10:58 mdke Burgwork, good item for you if you're around
10:58 LaserJock I was just thinking that maybe some wiki pages need to be prioritized for
the release
10:58 trappist do we even have an unprioritized list?
10:59 mdke trappist, CategoryCleanup
10:59 LaserJock or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo maybe
11:00 trappist holy crap that's a lot of wikis
11:00 trappist how does stuff get onto/off of that list?
11:00 LaserJock you fix it ;-)
11:00 trappist I can get on that
11:01 LaserJock at the bottom of the page is usually the list of categories a page belongs
to
11:01 mdke yeah, just delete the reference to CategoryCleanup once it's clean :)
11:02 trappist got it.
11:02 mdke trappist, for future word-nazi-ing reference, you call them "wiki pages"
rather than "wikis"
11:02 trappist check.
11:02 mdke "This wiki page is a guide to etc"
11:02 LaserJock anyway, I could be totally wrong, but I thought that maybe we need to make
sure that all the most important wiki pages are ready for dapper
11:02 Burgwork we are looking for a list of priority pages?
11:02 trappist I dunno if I can maintain a 10-a-day pace until release, so yeah I guess
prioritization will be helpful
11:02 mdke but LaserJock's item is a valid one
11:03 Burgwork BinaryDriverHowto is badly in need of a rewrite
11:03 mdke a number of things will need updating for dapper
11:03 mdke codecs have changed packages etc
11:03 Burgwork we need to decide what to do with DVD support in Dapper
11:04 LaserJock arggh
11:04 mdke heh
11:04 mdke that is rather waiting on upstream tbh
=== mgalvin has to run, will catch the log later
11:04 Burgwork dvd support has not been ported to gstreamer0.10
11:04 mgalvin later guys
11:04 mdke Burgwork, it's been ported, but some features are missing
11:04 Burgwork ugh
11:04 mdke menus, subtitles are missing
11:04 Burgwork all I know is there is not a package yet available. I call that not ported
11:04 mdke apparently there is a chance of it getting fixed for dapper, but only a
chance
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11:05 mdke I was led to believe there is a package
11:05 LaserJock I think so
11:05 Burgwork https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PageHits <-- this is a good guideline for figuring
out what needs to be done
11:05 mdke good point
11:05 LaserJock nice
11:05 trappist great link
11:06 Burgwork I will create a subpage of WikiTodo called CheckedForDapper and list some
that need to be checked
11:06 Burgwork once someone has checked a page, sign off on it on that page
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11:06 mdke maybe even a category?
11:06 Burgwork page is easier, we don't need extra categories, IMHO
11:07 mdke alright, if you don't mind doing the list
11:07 Burgwork I will do it tonight
11:07 LaserJock way cool
11:07 mdke cool
11:08 LaserJock ok, so I just wanted to briefly mention that I was able to get the Ubuntu
docs to register with doc-base
11:08 mdke yay
11:08 LaserJock but I haven't done the Kubuntu docs yet
11:09 LaserJock it looks like they should be easier
11:09 mdke yep, they are all under /usr/share/doc/kde/en/HTML/kubuntu
11:09 mdke will be hell to localise, stupid kde
11:10 LaserJock so I just have to add the proper control files and tweak the packaging
11:10 LaserJock and then build a test kubuntu-docs package
11:10 LaserJock man they take a long time to build
11:11 mdke do you want a user account on our server?
11:11 mdke the builds are fast
11:11 mdke in fact they should be fast on any reasonable computer
11:11 LaserJock perhaps that might be useful
11:12 mdke ok
11:12 LaserJock what every you want. If I could use my dual core iMac maybe it would be
faster ;-)
11:12 mdke heh
11:12 mdke any other business, can we wrap things up?
11:13 trappist I got nothin
11:13 dsas quick question: I take it that will there be a meeting after dapper release
to discuss the next cycle?
11:14 LaserJock many, many meetings ;-)
11:14 dsas sounds fun ;)
11:15 mdke yeah
=== trappist &
11:16 mdke me tooMeetingLogs/DocTeam_2006-03-17 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:21:06 by localhost)