<Vorian> Welcome to the 3rd Forum Council meeting!
<forumsmatthew> is Kiwi coming?
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<Vorian> I dont know forumsmatthew. I would assume he is asleep right now :)
<PriceChild> pathetic :P
<PriceChild> Hey GazzaK :)
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, shall we start with the jail?
<GazzaK> hey PriceChild
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<Vorian> as henrik is not here atm
<ubuntugeek> sure
<Vorian> for refernce
<Vorian> for reference*
<Vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
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<ubuntugeek> The jail agenda item was to set a final policy on a change we made to the jail about 5 months ago.
<Vorian> The jail
<Vorian> Should we split off the jail into two areas. One for spam (no reads) and one for jailing user posts and allow all users to view. Or should we leave it the way it is, one category and threads are viewable to the OP.
* Vorian was quoting u-g :)
<forumsmatthew> I'm not ofnd of that idea
<forumsmatthew> it would be a lot of extra work...all that sorting
<forumsmatthew> remembering where to put stuff
<ubuntugeek> previous to the jail change 5 months ago it was open for everyone to see, 99% of the items in the jail are spam
<ubuntugeek> 1% are users posts
<forumsmatthew> staff have an easier time remembering now
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<ubuntugeek> post the change we allow only the original thread started to view the thread created
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<ubuntugeek> I am in favor of leaving it the way it is and amending the guidelines to reflect the change
<ubuntugeek> that was implemented 5 months ago
<Vorian> thats a good idea
<forumsmatthew> I read one user's comment on the issue
<forumsmatthew> "I think that the elegant solution would be to keep the current system and permit people to access the jail upon request. "
<MikeB-> that is fine with me
<forumsmatthew> is that even possible?
<forumsmatthew> otherwise, I like it how it is
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<Vorian> other comments about the jail? anyone?
<SD-Plissken> I like it how it is.
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: not really easy to implement
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, fair enough.
<bapoumba> how it is +1
<forumsmatthew> I vote to keep it how it is and amend the guidelines
<ubuntugeek> we would have to put that user in another usergroup
<MikeB-> +1
<ubuntugeek> +1
* PriceChild got d/c and needs to read everything :(
<forumsmatthew> +1
<Vorian> great!
<ubuntugeek> Pricechild: we decided to leave the jail the way it is and amend the guidlines
<Vorian> ok Hardware team
<Vorian> Hardware Team
<Vorian> Lord Illian is currently busy with school etc and asked if we could elect a interm team leader for that team. Lets decide how to go about doing that.
<ubuntugeek> Who wants to amend the guidelines? any takers?
<forumsmatthew> I'll amend the guidelines
<SD-Plissken> Interm leader Vorian you have to be kidding?
<ubuntugeek> ok thanks matthew
<forumsmatthew> does LordIllidan have team members het?
<forumsmatthew> *yet
<PriceChild> Ok cool, btw my opinion is that the jail shouldn't have been closed due to it being so hidden 8-)
<Vorian> SD-Plissken, I'm just a humble secretary relaying the agenda :)
<ubuntugeek> there are 12 users in the hardware team
<forumsmatthew> I would recommend that _he_ be responsible for finding a member of his team to cover for him
<forumsmatthew> it's a sign of leadership
<ubuntugeek> I really think we need to either a) find a new team leader who has time or b) have two team leaders
<bapoumba> no posts in the forums section
* PriceChild points out randomly that there is #ubuntuforums-beginners (very active in evenings) & #ubuntuforums-unanswered (not very active)
<SD-Plissken> Vorian really if theres no one on the hardware team yet then how can an in-trim leader be chosen?
<ubuntugeek> Pricechild: re the jail, the reason it was closed is so the search engines do not index the spam
<MikeB-> The problem is the hardware team had little time to get going before this
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<PriceChild> ubuntugeek, ah search engines is a good point, never thought about that :)
<Vorian> SD-Plissken, ask ubuntugeek he added it to the agenda.
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, good point...it's like starting over, isn't it?
* PriceChild is happy
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: yes
<Vorian> I would suggest apjone as he was a finalist for the hardware team
<ubuntugeek> Possibly we should repost a request for hardware team leaders
<SD-Plissken> MikeB then the leader in charge should have made a thread asking for help.
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<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, I think that sounds better than finding an interim leader...just start fresh
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: right, i agree
<SD-Plissken> make sure they have the time..
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: +1
<Vorian> I think that is a great idea
<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, and perhaps that the candidate shows up at the meeting when he's chosen
<SD-Plissken> Seems fair to me forumsmatthew.
<ubuntugeek> Sounds good, +1 i
<ubuntugeek> 'll repost about the position
<forumsmatthew> +1, just to make it official
<Vorian> yay
<ubuntugeek> +1
* Vorian pokes jdong
* jdong didn't catch what the decision was :)
<jdong> but I'm sure I'd agree with it
<ubuntugeek> to elect a new hardware team leader
<ubuntugeek> lord Illian is pretty much going to be out until june
<jdong> like a permanently new one?
<jdong> what are we to do with Lord Illian when he gets back?
<jdong> I'd like to find some position for him....
<forumsmatthew> jdong, since nothing has happened with the current one, I will say yes...a new one to replace him
<forumsmatthew> I like Lord Illidan, he just didn't have time to do this
<ubuntugeek> agreed
<jdong> if he comes back June, would we be OK with finding something for him?
<SD-Plissken> He could be co chair on the same team.
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<MikeB-> maybe he can step in as a co-leader in June. We will know better by then what the hardware team will be like
<ubuntugeek> jdong: I don't see why not, possibly the new team leader will worth along with him
<jdong> yeah, ok
<jdong> I'll +1 then :)
<Vorian> great!
<Vorian> anything else on hardware?
<ubuntugeek> not from me
<forumsmatthew> I'm in favor of new hardware for everyone...Pricey is buying, I think
<forumsmatthew> :)
<Vorian> ty PriceChild :)
<Vorian> ISO testing
<Vorian> Can we cover that without Henrik?
<PriceChild> Hehe :)
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew: I need a new motherboad and CPU:) woot
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<PriceChild> @lart forumsmatthew
<ubuntugeek> It seemed like he just wanted us to promote it
<ubuntugeek> I put up the announcement this morning
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<Vorian> I noticed that :P
<forumsmatthew> I hearby promote the project: everyone who can, participate!
<Vorian> no brainer really eh?
<jdong> yay go hardware!
<Vorian> FC meeting times?
<Vorian> Should we vary our meeting times to accommodate all members of the Forum Council and Forum Members?
<ubuntugeek> One thing I was just thinking is possibly a testing team for henrik's project
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, thats a great idea!
<ubuntugeek> I'll run it past henrik, if no one else has any reservations.
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, that's not a bad idea...+1
<jdong> yeah, I'm all up for it
<bapoumba> +1
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: +1
<PriceChild> ubuntugeek, cd testing team? or general feisty?
<ubuntugeek> that way he can get a core group of testers
<ubuntugeek> testing team for cd images
<PriceChild> k
<SD-Plissken> u-g that would require user with many different platforms from ppc i386 64bit as well as different pci cards video cards other devices.
* PriceChild rubs eyes and will read more carefully next time
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* Vorian hands PriceChild some glasses
<ubuntugeek> sd: well not really I dont see why someone couldnt join who was just going to test i386
<jdong> yeah, I don't think we should have affirmative action testing or anything
<ubuntugeek> its no different then how it is now, except there is a defined list of participants dedicated to helping his project
<jdong> it's far from all i386's are created equal.
<PriceChild> I think the purpose of the testing team would be more to help assist other users get started... not do all the testing themselves
<Vorian> he explains his testing very well in this announcement http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=383067
<PriceChild> not that they wouldn't test themselves
<jdong> also, the plain having a title can be a major motivation to some people
<SD-Plissken> Don't get me wrong I'm not against it. I'm simply saying that for it to beneficial users would have to bug test beyond just the simple install.
<forumsmatthew> I propose ubuntugeek contacts henrik
<forumsmatthew> (just moving us on)
<jdong> SD-Plissken: this would be a good first step towards henrik getting a tem of serious testers
<ubuntugeek> sd: henrik, details what he wants/needs here http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=383067 very well.
<jdong> s/serious/dedicated/
<ubuntugeek> next?
<forumsmatthew> meeting time?
<jdong> meeting time...
<MikeB-> I'm free other than Tuesday after 1800 UTC
<forumsmatthew> I'm very flexible
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<ubuntugeek> I am flexible as well
* jdong exports public google calendar
<forumsmatthew> I prefer Tues, Wed or Thurs
<MikeB-> before 1500 UTC any day is doable, but a pain
<bapoumba> (I cannot get to IRC from work)
<Vorian> at the last meeting, someone suggested Sunday evening (US)
<jdong> http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/...blic/basic.ics
<jdong> iCal
<jdong> ical should handle timezones....
<jdong> my W/F are pretty good....
<jdong> the whole weekend too
<ubuntugeek> Wednesdays are fine for me
<MikeB-> wednesdays work for me
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<forumsmatthew> want to try 2nd Wed of April at 1800 UTC?
<Vorian> later on wednesday so kiwi can make it?
<forumsmatthew> what is a good time for him?
<jdong> 18:00UTC won't work for me...
<PriceChild> well it'd be much better for him a few hours on won't it?
<jdong> I got a class then
<Vorian> @schedule sidney
-Ubugtu- Error: Unknown timezone: sidney - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<jdong> 19:00/20:00 would be fine
<PriceChild> otherwise kiwi'd need to get up at 6am :s
<forumsmatthew> 20:00UTC would work for me
<bapoumba> fine for me
<ubuntugeek> 20:00 UTC is fine for me on wednesdays
<Vorian> cool
<MikeB-> that is fine for me
<Vorian> so the second wednesday of april then?
<Vorian> (april 11th)
<ubuntugeek> jdong?
<forumsmatthew> let's try it and see how it works... +1
<jdong> ubuntugeek: +1
<MikeB-> +1
<bapoumba> +1
<ubuntugeek> +1
<ubuntugeek> vorian: can you contact whoever does the schedule and get it changed for us?
<Vorian> yep
<SD-Plissken> sounds cool to me.
<ubuntugeek> for the second wednesday of each month at 20:00utc
<ubuntugeek> great
<Vorian> ubuntugeek, message sent :)
<ubuntugeek> lovely, i am going to add a last minute item to the agenda
<ubuntugeek> if we dont get to it today next time is fine
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<Vorian> ubuntugeek, we have and hour and a half left with only 1 item remaining
<forumsmatthew> I'm hoping we can get to it...
<forumsmatthew> :0
<forumsmatthew> :)
<forumsmatthew> forgot the shift key...
<ubuntugeek> ok lets move on :)
<Vorian> Next item is
<Vorian> Ubuntu Forums Staff Hiring Procedure
<Vorian> MikeB-, want to start this one off?
<MikeB-> first off I think the current procedure is fine, but I thought it would be god idea to formalize it
<SD-Plissken> formalize it??
<jdong> SD-Plissken: it's right now "it happens when it happens", no formal guidelines
<MikeB-> and also diverse the mentions of selecting staff and get more community feeedback
<jdong> SD-Plissken: every other Ubuntu process has a formal writeup of how it's done....
<SD-Plissken> I see..
<ubuntugeek> Also remember when the FC governance negociations were taking place this is something i did not want to change.
<ubuntugeek> negotiations*
<forumsmatthew> I propose this (it's basically what we are doing...): take suggestions from staff, discuss them among the admins, hire those that look the best to us, or others that we find on own
<PriceChild> Well its not something we have to change, we just have to explain how it happens :)
<jdong> I don't feel anything against our hiring procedures, but I think it's better if we have it down on paper
<jdong> even if it just describes how it's done now
<PriceChild> "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
<forumsmatthew> I can write it up so it sounds a little better
<ubuntugeek> jdong: having it down on paper is fine
<Vorian> PriceChild, good point.
<MikeB-> I think how is done is fine
<SD-Plissken> forumsmatthew,and just how well are the staff suggestions taken in to account when the final choice is made?
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<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, we look at those suggested and sincerely consider them
<ubuntugeek> We should take the staff suggestions and discuss it at a FC meeting to determine the final applicants
<ubuntugeek> We always take the staff opinions into consideration
<Vorian> couldn't the FC just use the mailing list to make these decisions?
<MikeB-> lets break this up into parts
<PriceChild> I don't think any more than "the FC members will take current staff opinions into consideration" is needed.
<SD-Plissken> ubuntugeek I'm not saying you guys don't,however. you all have the final say on these things,and it would be a shame to see someone added to this team only to find out they don't work well with those on staff.
<PriceChild> (for that part)
<jdong> SD-Plissken: if a staff member voices the slightest objection, we take that really seriously
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<SD-Plissken> jdong I guess..
<jdong> I would go as far to say that inhibits my approval of the new candidate.
<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, is there some specific incident you are recalling where staff input was not considered?
<forumsmatthew> and it caused problems among the current staff?
<SD-Plissken> no I'm not recalling any problems current that have not been handle with respect. however. things have changed since the FC which has not really been tested.
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<forumsmatthew> Okay. If there are no further comments on that, I propose we move on.
<forumsmatthew> I can write up the current process, send it to the admins on the mailing list for approval, and then we can get it posted.
<Vorian> last item
<Vorian> duplicate forum accounts
<Vorian> How shall we deal with users who create duplicate accounts after requestion their account be deleted or they are banned.
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: +1 sounds good
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: you ok with that? since it was your item
<jdong> +1
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: it is fine
<ubuntugeek> k
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<jdong> Vorian: I'd say merge or delete on first offense, depending on how many posts the dupe has.
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: +1, I think improvement could be made but I dod not want to go againist previous agreements
<jdong> Vorian: and give a final warning
<jdong> Vorian: both accounts are disabled on second offense
<PriceChild> I think we should have much harsher measures when the create a new account with existing infractions.
<PriceChild> *they
<ubuntugeek> mikeb: what kinda of improvements? might as well discuss them :)
<MikeB-> I think we should not delete account at all, except for cases of hassassment
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1 no account deletion
<forumsmatthew> we could remove personal data...email addresses, etc
<Vorian> If they request that their account be deleted, there should be some amount of time before they can create a new one.
<forumsmatthew> but leave the account intact
<PriceChild> e.g. Goat Spirit, Ben Sprinkle etc.
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<jdong_> ow, network kicked me....
<jdong_> I'm gonna head to class and re-join the meeting from there
<ubuntugeek> I agree on the no account deletion
<jdong_> back in 10m
<ubuntugeek> because it makes all that users posts goto "unknown" and its hard to track issues
<forumsmatthew> let's all hide before he comes back... ;)
<MikeB-> lol
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, that's exactly what I was thinking
<forumsmatthew> I still wish certain accounts existed for just that reason
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<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: it can wait for comment (staff hiring)
<ubuntugeek> OK, so no account deletion period. I think if the user wants his account removed. We can change the password and set the email to something else /dev/null or something
<forumsmatthew> If their personal data, like the email address used for signing up, were removed I think that would count as us doing what is necessary if a user wants to leave
<ubuntugeek> Some of these people we really need to keep an archive of.
<forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, you typed faster...
<MikeB-> so no account deletion, first dup account warning/infraction, second account dup ban
<ubuntugeek> Mikeb: +1 sounds perfect
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1
<MikeB-> third account dup, my foot up their %#%@
<forumsmatthew> I can add that in the Forums CoC when I add the stuff about the jail
<SD-Plissken> MikeB thats not very ubuntu.. lol
<bapoumba> MikeB-, do not circimvent the filters ^^
<forumsmatthew> bapoumba, lol!!!!!!!!!1
<bapoumba> *circumvent
<MikeB-> sorry the DST bugs have gotten to me:)
<bapoumba> ;-D
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<ubuntugeek> we should add this to the guidelines as well
<forumsmatthew> I'll do it when I add the "jail" stuff
<ubuntugeek> sounds good
<Vorian> any other business?
<ubuntugeek> I would like to formalize a process for 3rd party sections and create a request forum like the loco's have. any objections?
<forumsmatthew> I think that would be helpful
<MikeB-> ubuntusounds fine
<SD-Plissken> I can hear the mythtv folks beating a path to that door.. lol
<forumsmatthew> Only if they are devs. :)
<SD-Plissken> right!!!
<ubuntugeek> because right now i just get a PM and it ends up going back and forth for a month before i get all teh info
<PriceChild> Could we also discuss a desktop-effects section if no-one has to go?
<SD-Plissken> the request method seems reasonable to me ubuntugeek.
<SD-Plissken> Pricechild you going to run it?
<PriceChild> Does it really have to be "run"? :)
<Vorian> desktop-effects is a good idea
<ubuntugeek> would this be for discussing like beryl and such?
<PriceChild> beryl, compiz, kiba-dock etc.
<SD-Plissken> Well I would think someone would have to be available to the help the endless users with wah wah my beryl broke my x wont start ect.
<forumsmatthew> I propose we change jdong's title in the forums to something more amusing than "Ultimate Coffee Grinder" since he's not here
<forumsmatthew> sorry, offtopic
<Vorian> SD-Plissken, at least there would be a place for those posts :)
<PriceChild> SD-Plissken, We get hundreds of downloads of beryl every day from our ubuntu repos. There are lots of pleas for help in the forums, and there are lots of replies. I don't think there is a lack of users ready to help.
<PriceChild> s/hundreds/thousands/
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<forumsmatthew> I'm okay with making desktop-effects
<PriceChild> Compositing is only going to become a bigger "feature" with time... and I think we should embrace it.
<PriceChild> Especially with desktop-effects being installed by default in feisty
<MikeB-> Is it ok if a leave a little early, got some problems at my office that need my attention :)
<SD-Plissken> i'm ok with it as well as long as there help available to those who post there.
<forumsmatthew> see you later, MikeB-. I think we're winding up
<ubuntugeek> +1 i'll make it today
<Vorian> SD-Plissken, I'm willing to help :)
<ubuntugeek> price send me a PM with a description of it
<PriceChild> description?
<MikeB-> later all:)
<Vorian> bye MikeB-
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<ubuntugeek> yeah
<PriceChild> ah... the short sentence under the title?
<ubuntugeek> yep
<PriceChild> will do :)
<ubuntugeek> cool
<ubuntugeek> great thanks everyone for another good meeting 

MeetingLogs/ForumCouncil/2007March13/Logs (last edited 2008-08-06 16:59:38 by localhost)