Kubuntu_2006-02-22
09:00 Riddell shall we have a kubuntu meeting?
09:00 Lure sure
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09:01 Riddell all iteams on agenda are from Hobbsee, but she's not here
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09:02 jpatrick damn timezones
09:03 Pygi ah well :P
09:03 [Nirvana] jpatrick: there was that link on the meeting page though... still... I had to
rush home from school (it's starts at 3 EST)
09:04 apachelogger very quite for a meeting?!
09:04 Nirvana we're not all here
09:04 jpatrick where's raphink ?
09:04 Riddell 20:01 < Riddell> all iteams on agenda are from Hobbsee, but she's not here
09:04 Riddell so if anyone has any other business, go ahead
09:04 raphink oh thanks for poking me jpatrick
09:04 raphink :)
09:05 jpatrick you said you wanted to talk before FF
09:05 raphink jpatrick: yeah, but I think it was mostly about allee's and Tonio's stuff
09:05 raphink it seems tonio is not here tonight though
09:05 raphink I'll try to call him
09:05 Riddell we have moodin and keep in, I'll be reviewing Tonio's
kubuntu-default-settings tomorrow and uploading
09:06 jpatrick probably got cut off again
09:06 jpatrick what about knemo?
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09:06 Riddell I'll look at that tomorrow along with kubuntu-default-settings
09:06 Riddell i.e. does it work out of the box
09:06 apachelogger jpatrick: you think his isp tries to stop kubuntu's progress?
09:07 Lure what about font DPI and reduced font sizes?
09:07 allee kubuntu-default-settings miss a entry so one gets not prompted to create an
index (does not work due to htdig missing)
09:07 Riddell Lure: I'll be reducing the font sizes along with kubuntu-default-settings
tomorrow :)
09:07 Riddell allee: interesting point
09:08 Lure Riddell: just KDE defaults or also individual apps (Konsole,
Konversation...)?
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09:08 Riddell Lure: kde font sizes affect all apps
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09:08 Lure most, not all - quite some apps have own font setting
09:09 Lure for example, Konversation is at 11pt
09:09 jpatrick in the chat window?
09:10 Riddell Lure: 11 is the current default (in kdeglobals)
09:10 allee Lure: konversation adapts to kde defaults
09:10 Lure OK, then fine - I know when I wanted to reduce defaults, I had to change
quite some manually
09:11 allee Btw. is the tabs at top of konversation and konsole set in stone? Did anyone
from usability comment on pro/con of it
09:11 [Nirvana] I know I proposed this last meeting, but is it still all right to debate the
regeneration of K menu on KDE upgrade issue?
09:12 [Nirvana] * I was at a school meeting if anyone was wondering *
09:12 Riddell allee: it's not set in stone, but I think anyone can argue either way and be
quite valid, it's mostly personal preference
Big plus of down is that 'interesteing things in konsole, konversation is
09:12 allee happening at the buttom. So having tabs there reduces need to move
mouse/eyes
09:12 Riddell [Nirvana] : what's the issue
09:12 [Nirvana] can I C/P it from what I wrote?
09:12 Lure I would agreed with allee - similar for Kopete (as it will be tabbed by
default now)
09:12 Riddell [Nirvana] : sure
09:13 [Nirvana] it's the third bullet on this page (under Agenda):
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings/16-02-06
This is different form e.g. konqueror where there is not prefered location in
09:13 allee a web page/ file listing. So better keep tabs at top, next to the other
action ake toolbars and menus
09:13 Riddell allee: exacely, and the argument the other way is consistency with konqueror
09:14 allee allee: I argue that those are two different kinds of apps that deserve a
different layout
09:14 [Nirvana] also, what was the posistion on the klickibunti idea?
09:14 Riddell [Nirvana] : you'll have to tell us what the "cool Settings feature under
Actions" is
09:14 allee Riddell: I agree consistency is very important, but work flow and the way
you use apps is it too
09:15 Riddell [Nirvana] : ask amu about klickibunti, I think he just needs someone to code
it (put a web wrapper on his scripts) and test it
09:15 [Nirvana] Riddell: One sec, will post screenie
09:16 [Nirvana] I only have what it looks like now... not a before/after screenie btw :(
09:17 [Nirvana] OK, screenie: http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kmenu9nw.png
09:18 [Nirvana] Settings, and System Menu are NOT there when you upgrade from 3.4 to 3.5(.1)
09:19 [Nirvana] what I did was delete all kde settings and re-install kubuntu-desktop (with
3.5.1)
09:19 Riddell [Nirvana] : those were deliberately removed to avoid duplication
09:20 Riddell I can't remember how they were removed, might have been a patch to kicker,
else a settings in kubuntu-default-settings
09:20 Riddell but Settings is already in System Settings or KControl and System Menu is on
kicker by default
09:21 [Nirvana] ahh, I just thought it was easier to use this way, in my opinion
09:22 Riddell might be the Extensions= option in
/usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kickerrc
09:22 Riddell yes, it is
09:22 Riddell any other business?
09:23 Riddell groovy, I'll go and do the dishes then
09:23 [Nirvana] hehe
=== [Nirvana] has no idea what's going on ^^
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09:26 raphink sorry I was on the phone with tonio
09:27 raphink he can't make it this time either but has two things to say
09:27 jpatrick Riddell's gone....
09:27 jpatrick but fire away!
09:27 raphink jpatrick: so where are we now? or is the meeting over already?
09:28 jpatrick well, he went to do the dishes
09:28 raphink hmm ok
09:28 raphink is there actually a meeting? Like is there someone taking notes to make a
report and so on?
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09:29 raphink hmmpf doesn't seem so
09:29 jpatrick what did he have to say?
09:29 raphink ok well two things
09:29 [Nirvana] spit it out raphink!!! lol :P
09:29 raphink the first one is about the default graphic program in KDE
09:29 raphink right now we have krita as default
09:30 jpatrick oh goodie
09:30 raphink krita is very complex, although complete too
09:30 raphink most people don't want to use krita for basic stuff
09:30 [Nirvana] krita is hard to use
09:30 raphink koloupaint is much more simple
09:30 raphink easier to use
09:30 raphink kolourpaint sorry
09:30 raphink and kolourpaint is already in main
09:30 raphink so it might be a good idea to have it as default instead of krita
09:30 jpatrick but Krita's like Photoshop
09:31 raphink so most users don't have to figure out about layers and so on
09:31 raphink when they only want to draw a square or a circle
09:31 raphink graphic designers can install krita, but most users don't want it
=== Riddell back
09:31 allee raphink: when/where is krita (as default) called automaticly?
09:31 raphink allee: ?
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09:32 raphink allee: I'm not talking for myself, but reporting for Tonio since he couldn't
make it, so I'm not prepared to questions ;)
09:32 allee raphink: other way round. What do you mean with default
09:32 Riddell krita is there to match gimp in ubuntu
09:32 raphink allee: krita is installed in the default profile it seems
true, there was another one, on DSLinux... like xpaint or something, he gave
09:32 [Nirvana] it good praises (and he doesn't even know that his computer is running linux,
I told him it was Win95, because it is an intell 166)
09:32 Riddell krita in SVN is looking really nice in terms of usability improvements
09:32 raphink Riddell: yes, and we believe this is not what it should be, unless our users
are graphic designers
09:33 raphink Riddell: the point is that most basic users want to draw circles and squares
09:33 raphink not having to deal with layers, filters, etc.
09:33 Riddell then use openoffice
09:33 allee ahh, kolourpaint is not in kubuntu-desktop.
09:34 raphink open-office is too heavy for simple stuff
09:34 raphink allee: yes that's it
09:34 allee yes, rest of the familie used kolourpaint
09:34 Lure raphink: so suggestion is to replace krita or to add kolourpaint?
09:34 raphink so that's Tonio's proposal to have kolourpaint installed by default
09:34 allee so depending on target audience kolourpaint is too less, or krita too much
09:35 raphink Lure: yes, either
09:35 Lure I think Krita should be installed by default as it is great app
09:35 Lure but dummy paint is also fine with me ;-)
09:35 raphink some might complain about redondance
09:36 raphink but I don't think krita and kolourpaint are redundant
09:36 raphink they don't really do the same thing
09:36 allee if krita or kolourpoint depends on audience. the are not the same
09:36 raphink yes
09:36 raphink so what are opinions ?
09:36 raphink 1) keep it with krita only
09:36 raphink 2) replace krita with kolourpaint
09:37 raphink or
09:37 raphink 3) get both
09:37 raphink what do you think?
09:37 Riddell 1
Maybe they can both be packaged. Kolourpaint can be dubbed "basic image
09:37 [Nirvana] manipulation program" or "basic image editor" so users will know the
difference.
09:37 jpatrick 1++
09:37 raphink 3
09:37 Lure 1 (personally), but also fine with 3
09:37 [Nirvana] 3
09:37 allee 3) -- because we should serve both newbies and experts
09:38 Riddell 3 is not an option, that's against the whole single CD idea
09:38 raphink Riddell: ok
09:38 raphink then I'm for 2
09:38 raphink if 3 is no option
09:38 allee Riddell: then whom do we want to serve first? newbies or exports?
09:38 [Nirvana] 2 for me too, though 3 would be a blessing
09:39 allee experts know now to install stuff, newbies don't
09:39 Riddell as I say krita is improving well in terms of usability (although that won't
be in dapper)
09:39 raphink allee: with the single CD, I want to serve newbies for sure
09:39 allee so then my vote would be 2) only add kolourpaint
09:39 raphink Riddell: a program that has layers, filters and such is not suitable for any
newbie imo, however easy to use it claims to be
09:39 allee s/add/deliver Kolourpoint/
09:40 raphink I don't want my mom, sister of girlfriend to both about technical design
stuff
09:40 raphink s/both/bother/
09:40 allee + kids
09:40 raphink allee: hehe yes
09:41 raphink so ok let's remove 3) since ti's not an option
09:41 raphink so
09:41 raphink 1) keep only krita
09:41 toma_ does ubuntu ship gimp by default?
09:41 raphink 2) get only kolourpaint
09:41 raphink I vote 2
09:41 Riddell toma_: yes (although it's the first thing to remove on space constraints)
09:42 raphink toma_: I'm nto sure actually
09:42 raphink I remember having to install gimp
09:42 allee 2 me too
09:42 [Nirvana] I vote 2
09:42 raphink I installed ubuntu not long ago on a few machines and I remember gimp was not
installed
09:42 toma_ then i would vote 1. you dont have to use layers
=== [Nirvana] has to go out, it's been a great meeting :D
09:42 raphink bye [Nirvana]
09:43 raphink jpatrick: ?
09:43 allee toma_: but they clutter interface. krita is not useable by 'familie' or
grandma Muriel ;)
09:43 jpatrick 2++
09:44 raphink allee: oh you've got a grandma Muriel?
09:44 toma_ allee: then krita has changed a lot, i admit im not up-to-date.
09:44 raphink krita is aimed to replace photoshop
09:44 raphink or gimp
09:45 toma_ allee: but i hate really limited apps, last time i saw kolourpaint i was less
then impressed. I could not do the simple things as i wanted
09:45 jpatrick If we have KOffice in Dapper+1, then we'll have Krita then
09:45 raphink toma_: most people on windows pirate photoshop and use paint
09:46 Lure jpatrick: that is potentially good point
09:46 allee It's it somehow possible to add a 'Krita (install)' menu ? (ditto for
koffice)
09:46 toma_ allee: isnt edubuntu for your kids?
09:46 raphink toma_: no it's for schools
09:46 jpatrick toma_: something I was going say
09:46 raphink toma_: edubuntu is not aimed at children
09:46 allee edubuntu does much more
09:47 raphink not directly at least
09:47 toma_ ok
09:47 raphink imo
09:47 raphink anyway, there's no rush on this, but Tonio wanted to point this out
09:48 Lure should we replace krita with kcolourpaint+digikam ;-)
09:48 Lure I am sure everybody has digital photos these days...
09:48 raphink digikam has nothing to do with it
09:48 allee Again: would it be an option to somehow make it 'trival' to install apps that
should be there but didn't fit on CD?
09:48 allee candidates: krita, koffice, ..???
09:48 raphink allee: mornfall is working on this
09:49 allee raphink: great!
09:49 raphink allee: making a new adept stuff that will do as the simple installer for
ubuntu
09:49 jpatrick allee: koffice will get openoffice out
09:49 raphink there has been snapshots last week I think
09:49 raphink jpatrick: not so far ;)
09:50 raphink ok anyway
09:50 raphink that's about it
09:50 raphink ;)
09:50 allee jpatrick: _when_ we move to koffice. It should be very easy to add
openoffice, even for newbies
09:51 raphink jpatrick, Riddell : Tonio also said he needs MOTUs to review
netswitch/knetswitch (so either of you+me or something like this)
09:51 toma_ isn't koffice comparable with kolourpaint as krita is with openoffice?
09:51 jpatrick yeah, I could
09:52 raphink toma_: ??
09:52 Riddell raphink: I've revu'ed it, go ahead
09:52 raphink toma_: you mean if koffice is to ooo what kolourpaint is to krita?
09:53 raphink Riddell: well that's it
=== jpatrick does netswitch
09:53 allee lets postpone the koffice debat to dapper +1
09:53 raphink I think Tonio would like knetswitch to be in Kubuntu by default ideally
09:53 raphink but I doubt this is possible right now
09:53 toma_ it seems inconsitent to me to choose for kolourpaint+openoffice, i would
expect kolourpaint+koffice and krita+openofffice for users who want more
09:53 Riddell raphink: I don't think it's ready
09:53 raphink yes
09:54 Riddell raphink: there's user inteface issues, but also I've had it freeze on me
09:54 raphink but there's nothing else that is
09:54 raphink and the fact is that many people use wifi
09:54 raphink and there's no kde tool for it that is good enough
09:54 Riddell until knetworkmanager
09:55 raphink which is not to happen for now
09:55 raphink I mean we haven't seen it so far
09:55 allee yeah, network management is bit of a mess.
09:55 Riddell no, it needs a CVS network-manager
Riddell: will it be possible to backport knetworkmanager to dapper? If yes,
09:56 allee it may not make sense to invest energy in new tools for dapper that are
better replace by something else
09:57 allee (the 'else' is knetworkmanager)
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09:57 jpatrick raphink: are you uploading?
09:57 raphink uploading what jpatrick ?
09:57 Riddell allee: no, it can't be backported
09:58 jpatrick netswitch/knetswitch
09:58 allee argl :(
09:58 allee So
09:58 allee a) keep the status as in breezy
09:58 raphink jpatrick: no
09:58 raphink jpatrick: not yet
09:58 allee b) try to add *netswitch working before release
09:58 raphink jpatrick: but I can do it
09:58 allee more?
09:58 jpatrick raphink: I'm doing netswitch
09:59 raphink the fact is that the netswitch developers have basically redone the whole
program in a week for us
09:59 raphink as Tonio asked them to modify some stuff
09:59 raphink they've been improving and programming it again for Dapper
10:00 raphink so we kind of owe them a good place for their work ;)
10:00 raphink they even developed knetswitch so it could be included in Kubuntu before FF
=== allee nods
10:01 allee I assume we can request addition to main later (when we know it's ready for
default use)
10:01 allee +?
10:01 raphink sure
10:02 raphink I'm sure after the work they've done for us they're ready to make it better
10:02 raphink fix bugs and so on
10:02 raphink :)
10:02 raphink ok well no reaction
10:02 raphink anyway, the idea is to get it in universe for now
10:03 raphink and we'll see how it goes
10:03 raphink any other point to be talked about?
10:03 allee raphink: sounds good. I can offer some time in this field. But if upstream
is actively involved there maybe no need
10:04 jpatrick netswitch uploaded
10:04 raphink yes
10:04 raphink tonio knows about this
10:04 raphink ok :)
10:04 raphink good :)
10:05 allee end?
10:05 raphink I guess
10:05 raphink who is leading the meeting?
10:05 jpatrick you
10:05 raphink hahaha
10:05 raphink no, I came late, can't be ;)
10:06 raphink ok well if no one has anything to say, then the meeting is over
10:06 raphink :)
10:06 raphink hmm
10:06 jpatrick unless Hobbsee pops out right now
10:06 raphink we just have to plan next one
10:06 raphink I guess in two or three weeks
10:07 jpatrick same time
10:07 Riddell I'm busy in two weeks
10:07 raphink sure
10:07 raphink ok
10:07 raphink three weeks?
10:07 raphink the 15th of march
10:07 raphink is that fine?
10:08 jpatrick yep
10:08 raphink allee, Riddell ?
10:08 allee isn't this too late?
10:08 allee I mean ..
10:08 raphink not for me at least
10:08 jpatrick please note that the Kubuntu devs are evening people
10:09 allee shouldn't hte next meetng be some kind of status and todo before release. to
assign open points
10:09 Riddell fine for me
10:09 allee jpatrick: late in sense far away
10:09 allee so 3 weeks are too far away
10:10 raphink hmm
10:10 raphink well riddell is busy in 2 weeks
10:10 raphink and 1 week is too early
10:10 raphink since our main goal in the near future will be to fix bugs
10:10 raphink so there won't be much to talk about in a week I think
10:10 jpatrick write docs
10:11 allee well, let Riddell fix the date. I assume only him knows the big picture and
where more work & coordination is needed
10:11 raphink yes, too
10:11 toma_ a bit ot, but i've a bit time left, if you need some simple hack or app for
kubuntu, let me know.
10:11 raphink sure
10:11 raphink toma_: bugfixing?
10:11 allee toma_: -d switch for media2path please
=== allee hides
10:11 toma_ allee: duck
10:12 toma_ raphink: fixing is ok, hunting not
10:12 jpatrick toma_: https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/+assignedbugs
10:12 Riddell toma_:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/langpacks-desktopfiles-kde :)
10:12 raphink sure
10:12 Riddell March 15th is fine
10:12 raphink Riddell: ok
10:12 raphink then we go for the 15th
10:13 raphink 20UTC
10:13 allee raphink: yes
10:13 raphink right?
10:13 jpatrick fine with me
10:13 Riddell yes
=== allee nods
10:13 raphink good :)
10:13 toma_ thnx for the pointers, will read them
10:13 raphink meeting is over then :)
10:13 raphink :)
10:14 jpatrick who's doing mintues?
10:14 raphink hehe good question :)
10:14 jpatrick suppose it's me
=== allee files a wishlist report so toma find -d in malone there too. heh, heh!
10:14 raphink you did it very weel last time jpatrick :D
=== jpatrick does them
10:15 raphink thanks jpatrickMeetingLogs/Kubuntu_2006-02-22 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:17:07 by localhost)