20070122
TZ UTC+1
09:03 sistpoty anyone here for motu-meeting? 09:04 LaserJock so... who's running the show today? 09:04 ajmitch you are 09:04 ajmitch or sistpoty 09:04 ajmitch there only seems to be a couple of people here 09:04 sistpoty I'd prefer if LaserJock would do it ;) 09:04 sistpoty (am just about eating dinner *g*) 09:07 LaserJock well, I'll have to leave in less then an hour so we need to get with it 09:07 LaserJock the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings 09:08 ajmitch ok, SRU process 09:08 ajmitch sistpoty: you have the floor, let's get moving 009:08 sistpoty has everybody followed the mails to -motu and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRURedone? 09:08 sistpoty if not, please do so ;) 09:09 sistpoty well... imo it takes way too much time until a update even hits proposed... 09:09 sistpoty on the wiki-page, I've tried to make some proposals what can be fixed 09:10 sistpoty but it might be a good thing if somebody *not* from the sru-team would make comments as well (as it's sometime hard to see problems if you're involved on one end) 09:10 sistpoty so anyone some idea how to improve the sru-process? 09:11 LaserJock well, the biggest problem, IMO, is how many people it has to pass 09:11 ajmitch whoever is last to approve the package (in the SRU team) should upload it 09:11 LaserJock ajmitch: +1 09:11 ajmitch rather than it being approved & sitting there 09:11 sistpoty ajmitch: if the last person is crimsun, we are already doing it that way ;) 09:11 ajmitch good 09:11 LaserJock we get delayed everytime it goes from 1 queue to another 09:11 ajmitch but it doesn't always happen 09:11 ajmitch eg libnss-ldap 09:12 sistpoty ajmitch: so you propose to also upload stuff that have a motu as assignee? 09:12 ajmitch yes 09:12 sistpoty ah 09:12 ajmitch it reduces delays 09:12 ajmitch the person approving will already have the source there to look at 09:12 ajmitch so uploading won't be a burden 09:12 LaserJock I think as far as MOTU, having the last motu-sru voter upload and having a good system for displaying what's in -proposed 09:13 LaserJock the biggest delay has been ubuntu-archive 09:13 sistpoty LaserJock: yes 09:13 LaserJock but that's not really in our control too much and sounds like it's getting worked on 09:13 sistpoty LaserJock: FWIW Mithrandir is open to suggestions about reducing the checks ubuntu-archive is doing 09:13 sistpoty would that be an option? 09:14 LaserJock I think it would be good 09:14 LaserJock I think he should basically just check versioning 09:14 LaserJock and even that shouldn't be too bad if it goes through 3 motu-sru 09:14 sistpoty +1 here as well, at least for -proposed 09:15 LaserJock like I said in my email, getting into -proposed should be super easy 09:15 sistpoty ok... any other opinions what we should improve for sru? 09:15 sistpoty any objections to LaserJock proposal? 09:16 sistpoty ok, if noone cries out loud, I'd call that a decision ;) 09:16 ajmitch good 09:16 ajmitch NEXT! 09:17 sistpoty release schedules... me again 09:17 LaserJock Release schedules (sistpoty) 09:17 ajmitch can we decide on this now? 09:17 ajmitch we have feature freeze on the 8th, what does this mean for universe? 09:17 ajmitch last time we had universe upstream version freeze at beta freeze (iirc) 09:18 sistpoty ajmitch: imo we should decide now... we're overdue to get them listed on feistyreleaseschedule 09:18 ajmitch and no new packages at feature freeze 09:18 ajmitch which meant everything on REVU had to be in by FF 09:18 sistpoty there was one mail from crimsun with pretty good proposals for dates... I'll look that one up 09:18 LaserJock ok, dholbach's original proposal was keeping UVF same as Main and FF one week after Main FF 09:18 ajmitch LaserJock: that can't be right 09:19 ajmitch UVF is on the same day as feature freeze 09:19 ajmitch I didn't think we'd have such an early UVF === ajmitch notes that this is related to the universe QA point 09:19 LaserJock well, I swear UVF and FF weren't the same day but that's what the wiki page says 09:20 ajmitch right 09:20 ajmitch for edgy, we had UVF & no new packages at beta freeze 09:20 LaserJock March 15th in this case 09:20 ajmitch we also had an active UVF team that could do approvals 09:20 sistpoty ah... found the mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001103.html 09:20 ajmitch which needs to be sorted 09:21 LaserJock I seriously think it depends on how hard the freeze is going to be 09:21 LaserJock in Edgy we had to get approval for *every* upload after Beta Freeze didn't we? 09:22 sistpoty that would slowed us down pretty much, right? 09:22 LaserJock yeah 09:23 LaserJock if we are going to have that hard of a freeze I'd like to delay it 09:23 LaserJock if UVF and FF mean just that I'm fine 09:23 LaserJock but if UVF/FF effectively cut off any more development I'm not so fine 09:23 sistpoty well... for UVF it might be good to know what debian is/will be doing... ajmitch? 09:25 ajmitch sistpoty: hah 09:25 ajmitch funny 09:25 ajmitch "etch will release" 09:25 ajmitch no firm dates yet, I heard rumours of mid-feb 09:26 LaserJock it seems like etch will be too late for us to re-merge all the new upstreams that are likely to hit unstable 09:26 sistpoty ajmitch: oh, nice... we should put UVF definitely before the release of etch 09:26 ajmitch LaserJock: no, we did *not* need approval for every upload after beta freeze, but after RC 09:26 LaserJock ah RC 09:26 ajmitch it was only for a week or two 09:26 ajmitch not 5-6 weeks 09:27 LaserJock well, it was when I was going to upload some bug fixes I think 09:27 sistpoty ok, let's go over the unique dates... UVF 09:28 LaserJock I think we should keep UVF with Main 09:28 sistpoty is Feb 8 okay, sooner or later? 09:28 sistpoty anyone else? === ajmitch doesn't like it, but oh well 09:28 ajmitch we need to freeze some time 09:28 LaserJock ajmitch: what you prefer? 09:28 sistpoty hehe === tsmithe doesn't have enough experience to have an opinion 09:29 LaserJock we need to get merges done and out the door 09:29 ajmitch yes 09:29 ajmitch it just means approval for everything new after that 09:29 ajmitch & also clearing up REVU by the 8th 09:29 LaserJock yes 09:29 LaserJock no 09:29 LaserJock that's FF 09:29 sistpoty ajmitch: nope... UVF != FF 09:29 LaserJock I propose FF be later 09:29 sistpoty LaserJock: same here 09:29 LaserJock UVF same to get merges done and get sort of settled in 09:29 LaserJock and be consistent with Main 09:30 LaserJock before etch release 09:30 LaserJock but once merges are done and out of the way 09:30 LaserJock hit REVU and get all the new crack in 09:30 ajmitch it'll give us a few weeks to work on bugs 09:30 geser UVF = no new upstream version (only with approval) but new revisions don't need an approval? 09:30 sistpoty geser: only new upstream versions 09:30 LaserJock yes, "upstream" in this case is upstream upstream 09:31 sistpoty *g* 09:31 LaserJock new Debian revisions are ok 09:31 sistpoty ok... let's vote so that we can move on 09:31 sistpoty Feb 8? 09:31 sistpoty +1 09:31 LaserJock +1 09:31 sistpoty (please clearly vote with -1 if you are against it) 09:31 geser for FF or UVF? 09:32 LaserJock UVF 09:32 sistpoty geser: UVF 09:32 geser +1 09:32 sistpoty 3 09:32 sistpoty 2 09:32 sistpoty 1 09:32 sistpoty ok, accepted 09:32 sistpoty next: FF 09:33 sistpoty FF: march 1st? sooner or later? 09:33 ajmitch sooner 09:33 sistpoty ajmitch: name a date please ;= 09:33 sistpoty ) 09:33 LaserJock really? 09:33 ajmitch feb 22 09:34 ajmitch UVF+2 weeks 09:34 ajmitch depends on how much time you want people to spend reviewing vs bug fixing 09:34 sistpoty if we do one or two revu sprints during that time, might be ok 09:34 LaserJock yeah 09:34 LaserJock that's what I was just thinking 09:34 ajmitch and announce it well 09:34 LaserJock yes 09:34 ajmitch so that people know there's a deadline === ScottK likes revu sprints. 09:35 bddebian sistpoty: :) 09:35 sistpoty ok, votes please for feb 22 09:35 sistpoty FF 09:35 sistpoty +1 here 09:35 ajmitch so you'd have 1 month from now until universe FF 09:35 LaserJock +1 09:35 ajmitch +1 09:35 geser +1 09:35 LaserJock that gives us 3 weeks after FF before Beta Freeze 09:36 ajmitch hopefully people don't yell too loudly for us deciding on dates ;) 09:36 sistpoty ok... 3 09:36 sistpoty 2 09:36 sistpoty 1 09:36 ajmitch LaserJock: you think that's too long? 09:36 sistpoty done... 09:36 ajmitch hm ok 09:36 LaserJock ajmitch: no, I'm thinking we will need time for QA and upgrade testing 09:36 LaserJock we should try to be pretty locked down *before* Beta 09:36 ajmitch we've done badly on that in the past 09:37 sistpoty ajmitch: the dates should have been decided on the list a long time ago... but these things never work without MC ;) 09:37 ajmitch hence the QA topic coming up :) 09:37 ajmitch sistpoty: of course 09:37 ajmitch sistpoty: easier to ask forgiveness than permission ;) 09:37 LaserJock sistpoty: can you please edit the release schedule so we can get those "written in stone"? 09:37 geser is universe freeze on beta freeze? 09:37 ajmitch geser: no 09:37 sistpoty LaserJock: will do after the meeting ;) 09:37 LaserJock geser: there is no universe freeze 09:38 ajmitch none decided yet, anyway 09:38 sistpoty universe freeze used to be FF + UVF combined 09:38 geser LaserJock: in edgy we had one 09:38 ajmitch the hard freeze didn't work so well for edgy 09:38 ajmitch noone uploaded bug fixes 09:38 LaserJock geser: as sistpoty said Universe Freeze was just FF+UVF 09:38 LaserJock geser: it was done because the Edgy cycle was short 09:38 geser so we can upload fixes till feisty release? 09:39 LaserJock we have no freeze for fixes 09:39 LaserJock as far as I can see 09:39 ajmitch until the buildds & upload queue is set to manual 09:39 ajmitch which is a couple of days before release 09:39 sistpoty yes... 09:39 sistpoty any more discussion needed for freeze dates? did I miss s.th.? 09:40 LaserJock I don't think so, we just needed to rubber stamp it 09:40 sistpoty ok, then let's move one, agreed? 09:40 LaserJock can I inject a quick meeting item? 09:40 sistpoty LaserJock: sure 09:40 LaserJock At the end of last week I had a talk with kiko (LP dev) 09:41 LaserJock and he expressed a desire for MOTU to have better representation with LP 09:41 LaserJock and to work on making sure LP meets the MOTU's needs 09:41 LaserJock to do this he wanted a MOTU representitive to work with the LP devs 09:42 LaserJock to help prioritize bugs 09:42 LaserJock and get feedback from MOTU and turn it into specific and concrete bug reports that they can work on 09:42 ajmitch (bugs in the launchpad code, not universe bugs) 09:42 LaserJock yes 09:42 LaserJock sorry 09:43 sistpoty sounds great :) 09:43 LaserJock so, if there aren't any objections, I will take on this role === ajmitch agrees 09:43 sistpoty hehe, I just wanted to propose you, LaserJock ;) 09:43 sistpoty +1 09:43 ajmitch thanks for volunteering :) 09:43 LaserJock and will probably be meeting with the LP team (in some fashion) on a weekly basis 09:43 sistpoty great! 09:43 LaserJock I've started trawling through Malone bugs 09:43 LaserJock looking at bugs that seem important to MOTU 09:44 LaserJock and in fact I found a few of our long standing complaints are long standing bugs in Malone 09:44 bddebian Yeah :-( 09:44 LaserJock I will probably be using a special tag to mark certain bugs as MOTU priorities 09:45 Adri2000 the ability to target a bug for a release (for a SRU) in malone, currently only core-devs can do that 09:45 sistpoty LaserJock: I'll have some things of LP as well... I'll write you a mail 09:45 LaserJock so, if you have things that need to be fixed in LP (for MOTU work) please let me know 09:45 sistpoty Adri2000: yep... would be really handy to get that fixed, at least for -sru / motu-swat 09:46 LaserJock once I get things worked out with the LP guys I'll write an email to -motu explaining things further 09:46 LaserJock but I really want to thank kiko for reaching out to MOTU 09:46 sistpoty yay! 09:46 LaserJock this was a really good idea on his part 09:46 LaserJock and has commited to giving MOTU what it needs if possible 09:46 bddebian Do we already have a policy on what really makes good candidates for backports? 09:47 LaserJock anyway, that's it from me on that topic 09:47 ajmitch bddebian: add it to the meeting agenda :) 09:47 LaserJock and I have to run to try to convince 300 undergrads to by goggles from me ;-) I'll be back in ~15 min 09:47 ajmitch bye :) 09:47 sistpoty LaserJock: cya motu-lp-coordinator ;) 09:48 bddebian Heh, later LaserJock === ajmitch may or may not be around for the qa topic 09:48 sistpoty ajmitch: how about doing it now? === ajmitch shrugs 09:48 ajmitch ok, first up, we suck at QA 09:48 ajmitch edgy was a shambles 09:48 ajmitch we need to fix this 09:49 ajmitch one reason I wanted an early freeze date, so that we have plenty of time for fixing bugs 09:50 ajmitch I want us to have weekly targets of things to do (unmet deps, critical bugs, etc), which will require some coordination with the bug squad 09:50 sistpoty sounds great 09:50 ajmitch and I also want to try & get a list of bugs that are fixed in debian by new upstream versions that we don't have in ubuntu 09:50 ajmitch since we find out a few weeks after release about RC bugs that missed out on UVF by a day or so 09:51 ajmitch we've had the autoimporter shut off for so long that there may be many of these 09:51 ajmitch any other suggestions for what we need to do to make feisty universe better? 09:51 sistpoty hm... I even needed to file sync requests for two security bugs 09:51 geser we need also check for CVE fixed in unstable 09:51 ajmitch yep 09:52 ajmitch I can trawl the debian BTS via the LDAP gateway 09:52 ajmitch but I need to get the version info on the debian bugs 09:52 sistpoty ajmitch: cool 09:53 ajmitch so, getting a list of packages that are older than in debian, getting a list of closed bugs, seeing what bugs were fixed in those versions we don't have 09:53 sistpoty ajmitch: will you take leadership for universe-qa? 09:53 ajmitch who wants to try & do some weekly task lists (council job, i know) 09:53 ajmitch sure 09:53 sistpoty ajmitch: cool, would be awesome === ajmitch grabs the whip 09:54 ajmitch give me suggestions of what we need to fix 09:54 ajmitch & how we do testing (upgrade & install testing, etc) 09:55 sistpoty ajmitch: imo the most important thing is to try to motivate people to follow at least *some* task lists, instead of everybody working on something different 09:55 ajmitch yep 09:55 sistpoty which I guess will be the hardest part as well ;) 09:55 ajmitch heh 09:55 geser we should also check that packages build on all archs 09:56 ajmitch that should come under full archive rebuild testing 09:56 sistpoty ajmitch: will that be done this time? 09:56 ajmitch I hope so 09:56 ajmitch I'll find out 09:57 geser maybe we could ask the same person who did it the last time 09:57 sistpoty ajmitch: iirc lucas did archive rebuilds for unstable, didn't he? maybe he could set s.th. up for feisty as well? (if we cannot do it officially) 09:57 ajmitch yes, he did 09:57 ajmitch imbrandon can probably do some with his new toys 09:58 geser but this time with enough time for fixes 09:58 sistpoty great 09:58 sistpoty we should also try to fix as many unmet deps as possible... many sru's are due to unmet deps 09:59 sistpoty (with really easy fixes!) 09:59 keescook I'd love to get involved in some full rebuilds too; I'd like to test some toolchain changes at some point (separate from the feisty release stuff, obviously) 09:59 geser what about packages that failed building on upload but build now? 09:59 ajmitch geser: certainly, I was filing a few bugs with fabbione after a full rebuild on sparc 09:59 ajmitch geser: we get the admins to give them back to the buildds 09:59 ajmitch keescook: excellent 10:00 sistpoty ajmitch: is there a procedure to do the give-back? (my pings to lamont don't seem to have any impact) 10:00 ajmitch sistpoty: lamont hasn't done that for ages 10:00 lamont` ajmitch: well, I can now... but yeah 10:00 ajmitch unless he's been helping out recently 10:00 geser sistpoty: ask Mithrandir for give-backs 10:01 geser ajmitch: exists a list of those packages that need a look (because it failed building)? 10:01 ajmitch geser: there should be, if not, we'll get one 10:01 ajmitch mails are sent out on build failures now as well 10:01 ajmitch & we can officially beg the LP guys now 10:02 ajmitch anything else for QA that we need to cover now? 10:02 persia I'd like to see removal of all NBS in universe. Some install and fail for known reasons. 10:02 ajmitch we also need someone to do minutes of the meeting, please 10:03 sistpoty I can do the minutes... 10:03 ajmitch persia: there's probably a lot we could cull from universe because they won't work without a lot of effort 10:03 ajmitch sistpoty: thanks 10:04 ajmitch this topic has sort of covered the needed todo lists as well 10:04 sistpoty ok 10:04 ajmitch unmet deps, bugs fixed in debian, critical/important bugs on malone, etc 10:04 ajmitch sistpoty: you want to talk about translations soon? 10:05 sistpoty erm... anyone got a clue about translations? 10:05 ajmitch nope 10:05 sistpoty I actually only set it as topic, since we got a mail on -motu 10:05 ajmitch we'd need to talk to carlos 10:06 sistpoty ok, then let's defer the item... anyone volunteering to contact carlos about it? === sistpoty is a little bit low on time atm :/ 10:07 persia I lurked on a conversation between seb128 and carlos. Translations was related to a spec that was rejected, and needs revision (although I can't find the URL now). 10:08 ajmitch persia: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/language-packs-for-universe ? 10:09 persia ajmitch: Yep, that's it. The rejection was due to the volume and conflicts due to translations upstream vs. translations locally. 10:07 ajmitch then it's MOTU school 10:07 ajmitch we've been wanting to revive this for awhile, but it takes a reasonable about of time 10:08 sistpoty hm... maybe it might make sense to do short (as in very short) lessons prior to a new task (e.g. unmet deps) being the current one 10:09 ajmitch sistpoty: probably a good idea, and link to the school session on the task lists 10:09 sistpoty yes 10:10 ajmitch so we just need a call for volunteers for school sessions, and we can go for it ;) 10:10 ajmitch sistpoty: great, that was the last topic, we can go home ;) 10:10 sistpoty ajmitch: date of next motu-meeting? 10:10 sistpoty do we want to decide now or defer to mailing list? 10:11 LaserJock for what? next meeting? 10:11 sistpoty LaserJock: yes 10:11 ajmitch now + 3 weeks, exact date to be decided on list? 10:11 LaserJock I think we should at least have a proposal right now 10:11 LaserJock I think it should be the week after the MOTU Council get's finalized 10:11 ajmitch make it a regular thing 10:11 sistpoty +3 weeks sounds good 10:11 LaserJock I can dream can't I? ;-) 10:12 sistpoty maybe we should rotate the time to cover different tz's? 10:12 ajmitch sistpoty: good idea 10:12 ajmitch sistpoty: a meeting every 3-4 weeks could be a good thing 10:12 sistpoty ajmitch: agreed 10:12 ajmitch let people bring up their complaints 10:12 LaserJock yes 10:12 LaserJock I think if we have regular reports as well it will help 10:13 ajmitch yep 10:13 LaserJock getting people going is what we need right now 10:13 sistpoty wed, Feb 14? 10:13 sistpoty let's say 8.00 UTC? 10:13 ajmitch sistpoty: sure, 1 week before FF === ajmitch might be a little late for that, but it should work 10:14 sistpoty ok, anyone against that date? 10:14 ajmitch I think I'll be finished at practice at about 7:30UTC :) 10:14 ajmitch ah sorry, that's wednesday, i have nothing on that day 10:14 sistpoty hehe... and I need to get up early (before noon) 10:14 ajmitch unless I get back to archery practice :) 10:14 LaserJock well, that's midnight for me, but better than 10:00UTC 10:14 ajmitch LaserJock: alright 10:15 LaserJock we should rotate times 10:15 ajmitch no objections? 10:15 sistpoty no 10:15 LaserJock I guess, with as many people as we have 10:15 LaserJock not from me 10:15 ajmitch great 10:15 LaserJock we can hash it out on the ML if it doesn't work for people 10:15 sistpoty ok, then thanks everyone for the meeting... 10:15 ajmitch it is decided 10:15 LaserJock I just think it's better to have a propasal, then work from there 10:16 ajmitch thanks sistpoty for getting it running 10:16 sistpoty np 10:16 ajmitch & LaserJock 10:16 sistpoty t'was small but very productive imo :) 10:16 LaserJock sistpoty: thank you a lot for getting things going 10:16 LaserJock and the REVU Reports are great 10:16 sistpoty LaserJock: no problem... if I were that good with my thesis as well *g* 10:16 LaserJock I meant, SRU Reports
MeetingLogs/MOTU/20070122 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:17:55 by localhost)