(11:05:18 PM) TheMuso: #startmeeting (11:05:20 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 04:05. The chair is TheMuso. (11:05:20 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] (11:05:29 PM) TheMuso: [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings (11:05:30 PM) MootBot: LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings (11:05:49 PM) TheMuso: LaserJock: I just asked who is here. (11:06:34 PM) TheMuso: Does anybody have anything to say about he first agenda item, or should be postpone it for the next meeting? (11:07:28 PM) TheMuso: Hrm, and since there are only a few of us, I'm wondering whether we should leave them for the list/the next meeting/ (11:07:45 PM) pochu: It sounds good to me, although it says "e.g." so it sounds as it should be discussed (or postponed) (11:08:29 PM) pochu: TheMuso: we can wait a little to see if there is someone late (11:08:46 PM) TheMuso: pochu: Yeah, perhaps I was a little hasty in starting things. :p (11:09:10 PM) LaserJock: heh, we could at least have a quick discussion I suppose (11:09:43 PM) TheMuso: LaserJock: About which one(s)? (11:10:09 PM) LaserJock: all of them (11:10:16 PM) LaserJock: if not a lot of people show up (11:10:39 PM) TheMuso: Yeah, and its looking increasinly like they won't, but we can wait a bit. (11:13:58 PM) TheMuso: Yay, another MOTU. (11:14:05 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: You are here for the meeting, aren't you? (11:14:12 PM) pochu: motus += 1 (11:14:16 PM) RAOF: TheMuso: Yes, I am. Just a little late :) (11:14:34 PM) TheMuso: Tis alright, we haven't started in urnist yet. (11:14:36 PM) RAOF: Unless my UTC-foo is particularly bad. (11:14:49 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: NO it isn't. (11:15:19 PM) TheMuso: Well, what say we get started? (11:15:58 PM) ***ajmitch isn't exactly here for the meeting, is almost beer o'clock :) (11:17:49 PM) TheMuso: Or do you all think we should postponee? (11:18:33 PM) RAOF: How many do we have? (11:18:48 PM) TheMuso: nxvl, pochu, LaserJock, yourself, and myself. (11:19:46 PM) RAOF: Hm. Doesn't seem a particularly good turnout, but will postponing get a better turnout? (11:19:49 PM) pochu: and half of ajmitch! (11:19:59 PM) RAOF: The soper half :) (11:20:04 PM) RAOF: s/p/b/ (11:20:13 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: Well I think the times rotate now, so the next one is more likely to land in a more suitable timezone. (11:20:41 PM) ***LaserJock likes this time :-) (11:20:47 PM) RAOF: TheMuso: So that means we should go ahead, surely. The idea of rotating timezones would be so that everyone can participate. (11:21:02 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: Yes I know. (11:21:09 PM) TheMuso: Alright, lets go. (11:21:11 PM) TheMuso: [topic] mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.) (11:21:12 PM) MootBot: New Topic: mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.) (11:21:38 PM) TheMuso: Since whoever added that doesn't seem to be here, what does everybody think? It sounds rather self-explanetory. (11:22:27 PM) LaserJock: are we wanting a wiki page that has the "You need to be sub'd to ubuntu-motu, ubuntu-devel, and ubuntu-devel-announce" (11:22:29 PM) LaserJock: ? (11:22:29 PM) RAOF: It does, yes. I think it's obvious that MOTUs should be expected to be subscribed to at least -motu & -devel-announce, and almost certainly -devel. (11:22:55 PM) pochu: I think the "must be subscribed to -devel-announce" is sensible. (11:23:10 PM) TheMuso: I think devel-announce, and -motu certainly. (11:23:18 PM) pochu: The others shouldn't be enforced IMHO (11:23:27 PM) pochu: hmm, -motu maybe... (11:23:39 PM) LaserJock: really? (11:23:56 PM) LaserJock: I feel like both -motu and -devel should be required (11:24:16 PM) TheMuso: LaserJock: Certainly -devel if you are about to/are a MOTU. (11:24:23 PM) TheMuso: As you are more active in the development community. (11:24:48 PM) pochu: well important things go to -devel-announce. The rest is discussion so I don't think we should enforce it. (11:25:02 PM) pochu: Although we should encourage it, of course. (11:25:07 PM) LaserJock: mdz and others have said that the design of -devel should be for *all* developers and -motu should be just motu specific stuff (11:25:36 PM) LaserJock: so I think people are really missing out on important stuff if they aren't sub'd (11:25:58 PM) TheMuso: LaserJock: Now that you put it that way, -devel is important enough, as some important discussions do come up from time to time, or someone wants something tested. (11:26:38 PM) pochu: I still don't think we should force people to subscribe to a list because they might be interested in a few mails (11:26:38 PM) LaserJock: it's not like they are high traffic (11:26:57 PM) pochu: LaserJock: true that, due to the split in -devel-discuss for devel and -mentors for motu (11:27:07 PM) TheMuso: nxvl: You still with us? Do you have any thoughts? (11:27:22 PM) RAOF: pochu: Surely it's not *that* much of a burden? I get ~40 Ubuntu mails/day on busy days, and I'm subscribed to all sorts of lists. (11:27:29 PM) pochu: Messages: 205 <--- ubuntu-motu in January (11:27:35 PM) TheMuso: Yeah the traffic is not high at all. (11:27:47 PM) pochu: Messages: 105 <--- ubuntu-devel in January (11:27:49 PM) TheMuso: on -devel (11:28:11 PM) LaserJock: I just feel like if -motu and -devel are really burdens then I have some other questions (11:28:21 PM) LaserJock: if you know what I mean (11:28:26 PM) pochu: RAOF: lucky you ;) I get hundreds every day, but I'm subscribed to too many I'm afraid... (11:28:37 PM) RAOF: So that'd be ~10 mails/day for -motu & -devel being mandatory. That doesn't seem onerous at all. (11:28:55 PM) LaserJock: I don't think we need to have some sort of penalty or ML cops or anything (11:29:20 PM) TheMuso: No, I see it more as an encouragement. (11:29:33 PM) TheMuso: As they'd get more out of the development community at least reading those lists. (11:29:33 PM) RAOF: It would just be listed somewhere as expected behaviour. (11:29:46 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: Yeah. (11:29:49 PM) pochu: Well I'm saying all the time that we should encourage it, but not force it (11:29:50 PM) LaserJock: but a wiki page that says that you *should* be sub'd is good, and generally saying it's assumed (11:29:59 PM) pochu: Although -devel-discuss should be enforced. (11:30:11 PM) TheMuso: devel-discuss? (11:30:13 PM) TheMuso: You sure? (11:30:20 PM) pochu: Err, -devel-announce (11:30:29 PM) LaserJock: -devel-announce yes (11:30:33 PM) RAOF: pochu: I thought d-discus was at least partially a honeypot :) (11:30:35 PM) pochu: TheMuso: I'm considering unsubscribing from -discuss ;) (11:30:36 PM) TheMuso: Right, I thought so. (11:30:53 PM) pochu: RAOF: yeah sadly it is (11:31:41 PM) TheMuso: So does anybody wan to volunteer to update the wiki? (11:32:10 PM) LaserJock: do we have a good wiki page for that? (11:32:37 PM) RAOF: LaserJock: That's what I was thinking. I can't think of one, offhand. (11:32:41 PM) ***TheMuso doesn't know, as he rarely looks at the MOTU part of the wiki these days. (11:33:09 PM) TheMuso: Well perhaps its someting we tell new contributors who are regularly involved. (11:33:15 PM) TheMuso: something (11:33:33 PM) TheMuso: And, how do we enforce devel-announce? (11:33:38 PM) TheMuso: We can't really enforce any of it really. (11:33:55 PM) RAOF: Sign up ~ubuntu-dev to devel-announce? :) (11:33:57 PM) LaserJock: sure we can (11:34:16 PM) LaserJock: have a devel-announce admin sign up everybody in ~motu (11:34:20 PM) LaserJock: :-) (11:35:36 PM) TheMuso: Yeah, but I don't think its something we can force contributors to do. (11:36:03 PM) RAOF: Why would we need to force contributors to do that? (11:36:37 PM) RAOF: We can suggest it to them, and if they don't then, well, that's one of the reasons their work is filtered through MOTUs. (11:36:42 PM) LaserJock: no, this should be a MOTU thing (11:37:54 PM) pochu: LaserJock: then motus could just filter mails from whateverlist to /dev/null :P (11:38:21 PM) LaserJock: well, that would be very unfortunate (11:39:11 PM) LaserJock: hmm, we need a "MOTU Reference" wiki page (11:39:18 PM) LaserJock: I just get so lost (11:40:21 PM) RAOF: Hey, maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers is a good page? (11:40:29 PM) LaserJock: well (11:40:35 PM) LaserJock: that one is just so big (11:40:47 PM) LaserJock: I need like the reference version (11:41:01 PM) RAOF: "MOTUhood for dummies" (11:41:14 PM) LaserJock: that links to all the stuff and has nice checklists so we don't forget (11:41:17 PM) RAOF: That'd actually be a useful page, yeah. (11:41:50 PM) LaserJock: so it's not "I need to learn how to ..." but "I need to remember how to ..." ;-) (11:41:57 PM) RAOF: Updated with "current/impending freeze: <url> (exception process <url>)", etc. (11:42:05 PM) LaserJock: yep (11:42:23 PM) RAOF: "Where's that useful page about reviewing new library packages again?" (11:42:28 PM) RAOF: Etc. (11:42:32 PM) TheMuso_: Sorry, just got booted and reconnected. (11:42:47 PM) TheMuso_: What did I miss? (11:43:01 PM) RAOF: I didn't see you get booted, so I don't know. (11:43:14 PM) LaserJock: TheMuso_: what was the last you saw? (11:43:15 PM) RAOF: Last thing you saw? (11:43:17 PM) TheMuso left the room (quit: Nick collision from services.). (11:43:42 PM) TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso (11:44:02 PM) RAOF: LaserJock & I have been musing that a "Daily MOTU tasks quick reference guide" wiki page would be nice. (11:44:12 PM) TheMuso: < RAOF> Why would we need to force contributors to do that? (11:44:47 PM) RAOF: TheMuso: http://pastebin.com/mcce1ddb (11:45:11 PM) TheMuso: RAOF: thanks. (11:46:59 PM) TheMuso: So... What should we do? Perhaps raise it on the list? (11:47:22 PM) RAOF: Unless someone here wants to volunteer to write such a page, yes. (11:48:14 PM) RAOF: The result of this discussion is "MOTUs are expected be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. Also, a MOTU Reference wiki page wourld be good", yes? (11:49:18 PM) TheMuso: Does everybody agree with RAOF assessment of the discussion? (11:49:49 PM) LucidFox: I agree. (11:51:10 PM) TheMuso: Ok, I'll take that as a yes, as we are almost out of time. (11:52:34 PM) TheMuso: [agreed] MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful. (11:52:35 PM) MootBot: AGREED received: MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful. (11:52:42 PM) TheMuso: Moving along... (11:53:09 PM) TheMuso: should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details) (11:53:22 PM) TheMuso: [topic] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details) (11:53:23 PM) MootBot: New Topic: should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details) (11:55:01 PM) TheMuso: So, shoudl this also be something that gets put to the list? (11:56:16 PM) ***TheMuso thinks again that we postpone to either the next meeting, or to the list. (11:56:25 PM) RAOF: As I see it, the only reason why Ubuntu Membership should not be a requirement for MOTU would be if the process for aquiring UM is swamped by applicants. (11:56:39 PM) RAOF: TheMuso: That seems reasonable. Send to list. (11:58:03 PM) TheMuso: Anybody got anythign else to say? Otherwise I say we leave this and the other items either for the list, or the next meeting. (11:58:16 PM) superm1: are some folks from motu-release present right now? (11:58:26 PM) superm1: i've got some things to mention at least to them (11:58:38 PM) TheMuso: Yes, I am, but we as a group haven't had a chance to talk about anything yet. (11:58:55 PM) superm1: I'll hold off then until everyone on the team talks then (11:59:02 PM) superm1: carry on :) (11:59:25 PM) TheMuso: Anybody? (11:59:27 PM) TheMuso: going.... (11:59:30 PM) TheMuso: going.. (11:59:34 PM) TheMuso: going. (02/15/2008 12:00:13 AM) TheMuso: gone. (12:00:58 AM) pochu: Adjourned! (12:01:12 AM) TheMuso: [agreed] Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting. (12:01:13 AM) MootBot: AGREED received: Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting. (12:01:17 AM) TheMuso: #endmeeting (12:01:18 AM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 05:01.