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(04:03:25 PM) sistpoty: #startmeeting
(04:03:25 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 22:03. The chair is sistpoty.
(04:03:25 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(04:03:39 PM) sistpoty: [TOPIC] who does the minutes?
(04:03:39 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  who does the minutes?
(04:03:51 PM) sistpoty: so, any volunteers for minutes?
(04:04:02 PM) james_w: I can do it if you like
(04:04:13 PM) sistpoty: cool, thanks james_w
(04:04:21 PM) sistpoty: [AGREED] james_w to do the minutes
(04:04:22 PM) MootBot: AGREED received:  james_w to do the minutes
(04:04:48 PM) sistpoty: [LINK] Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
(04:04:49 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
(04:05:06 PM) sistpoty: persia: you have the first (and only) item, around?
(04:05:30 PM) sistpoty: [TOPIC] Nomenclature for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
(04:05:30 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Nomenclature for the Universe Hackers (Ubuntu Contributing Developers) team
(04:06:23 PM) ***sistpoty looks for a few mailing list links
(04:06:43 PM) sebner: Question: If we find a good name today, we'll can start adding/approving members?
(04:07:05 PM) geser: I hope so
(04:07:15 PM) james_w: me too
(04:07:44 PM) dudus: sorry, I'm new here, but universe hackers are not the same as the members of motu team?
(04:07:46 PM) sebner: me too because I want to join ^^
(04:07:48 PM) sistpoty: some candidates are here
(04:07:51 PM) sebner: dudus: no
(04:07:52 PM) sistpoty: [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003664.html
(04:07:52 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003664.html
(04:07:54 PM) sebner: sistpoty: ^^ me
(04:08:07 PM) sistpoty: sebner: I meant candidates for the name
(04:08:13 PM) sebner: lol. sry
(04:08:21 PM) dudus: sebner: whats de difference?
(04:08:23 PM) sistpoty: ok, seems persia is not around... anyone who'd like to introduce the topic?
(04:08:29 PM) james_w: dudus: it's a team without the full powers of MOTU, but people who have a recognised contribution
(04:08:42 PM) sebner: james_w: I can't say it better :)
(04:08:46 PM) geser: and it also grants  Ubuntu membership
(04:08:57 PM) james_w: sistpoty: do we have enough people to make a decision now?
(04:09:27 PM) sistpoty: james_w: sure, otherwise we'll drag the name thingy around for ages
(04:09:37 PM) james_w: sistpoty: cool
(04:09:38 PM) sistpoty: (and there is no quorum for motu-meetings)
(04:10:04 PM) james_w: sistpoty: want to explain the issue while I pick out the names that had the most support from the thread?
(04:10:25 PM) sistpoty: james_w: sounds like a good idea :)
(04:11:20 PM) sistpoty: ok, for everyone who doesn't know yet, we'll need to find a good name for a team which is used to hand out ubuntu membership (and possibly other privileges) on behalf of MOTU
(04:11:42 PM) sistpoty: anything I missed? *g*
(04:12:17 PM) sebner: sistpoty: sounds good :)
(04:12:22 PM) sistpoty: was anyone around during the last meeting? (I wasn't, so I cannot summarize the exact discussion from then)
(04:12:51 PM) ***geser neither
(04:12:56 PM) james_w: sistpoty: there were a bunch of ideas proposed, but nothing decided
(04:13:07 PM) sistpoty: thanks james_w
(04:13:29 PM) james_w: there were objections to every suggestion, and as nothing had a unanimous agreement nothing was done.
(04:13:35 PM) sebner: james_w: may want to post the most popular ones?
(04:13:43 PM) geser: james_w: any good proposals?
(04:13:56 PM) james_w: so, it seems we just need the majority verdict, 'cause we won't get unanimity.
(04:14:14 PM) james_w: here's everything that was proposed, for completeness
(04:14:19 PM) sistpoty: of course if anyone has good ideas right now, please shoot them out
(04:14:20 PM) james_w: Acolyte of the Universe
(04:14:27 PM) james_w: Supporter of the Universe
(04:14:33 PM) james_w: “Enthusiast Member”
(04:14:33 PM) james_w: “Member with Distinction”
(04:14:33 PM) james_w: “Lieutenant of the Universe”
(04:14:33 PM) james_w: “Community Fellow”
(04:14:33 PM) james_w: “Developer Fellow”
(04:14:38 PM) james_w: Cosmic Coders
(04:14:45 PM) james_w: “Eternian”
(04:14:50 PM) sebner: I have a new proposal
(04:14:53 PM) james_w: “Ubuntu Universe Astronaut”
(04:15:00 PM) james_w: “Ubuntu Contributing Developer”
(04:15:04 PM) sistpoty: sebner: just shoot ahead ;)
(04:15:07 PM) james_w: “Gluons”
(04:15:13 PM) sebner: Motu Supporters
(04:15:14 PM) sebner: ^^
(04:15:15 PM) james_w: “Universe
(04:15:15 PM) james_w: hackers"
(04:15:26 PM) james_w: Monkeys of the Universe!
(04:15:34 PM) james_w: Universe Apprentices”
(04:15:39 PM) sebner: sistpoty: seems to be difficult to make a decision within the next 45 minutes
(04:15:50 PM) james_w: ubuntu-members-universe
(04:15:51 PM) james_w: or
(04:15:56 PM) james_w: botu (bachelors of the universe)
(04:16:07 PM) sebner: lol
(04:16:11 PM) james_w: Men-At-Arms"
(04:16:19 PM) sebner: james_w: I think we have enough ^^
(04:16:31 PM) james_w: yep, that's the lot
(04:16:41 PM) sebner: how should we handle this now?
(04:17:05 PM) sistpoty: I guess everyone around says what she/he likes best, and we'll do a vote on that then
(04:17:09 PM) slangasek: so to be clear, this team is: people who are not (yet) MOTU but have contributed to universe and we want to recognize as being "ubuntu members"?
(04:17:11 PM) james_w: the most popular were "Ubuntu Contributing Developer”, "Universe hackers",  "Universe Apprentices” and "ubuntu-members-universe"
(04:17:14 PM) sebner: MOTU Supporters :P
(04:17:45 PM) james_w: slangasek: yep, they get ubuntu membership in recognition of their work on universe
(04:17:46 PM) sistpoty: slangasek: yes
(04:17:48 PM) geser: slangasek: yes
(04:18:07 PM) dudus: motu supporters seem more descriptive for what I understand the team goal will be
(04:18:27 PM) sebner: Yeah
(04:18:34 PM) ***sebner --->> winner xD
(04:18:47 PM) james_w: so from the ones that have support, shall we vote on each? Just +1, 0, -1?
(04:18:52 PM) sistpoty: well, ubuntu-members-universe would fit in the ubuntu-members scheme, but I also like motu supporters actually
(04:19:37 PM) sistpoty: maybe we can thin out the list a little bit more?
(04:19:44 PM) dudus: ubuntu-motu-supporters
(04:20:18 PM) james_w: actually, supporters is the one that I like the least, as it sounds like they are just fans of it, rather than doing useful work.
(04:20:25 PM) crimsun: first, I don't think it's necessary that "member" be in the team title, because that will be self-evident
(04:20:27 PM) james_w: however, I would be fine with any of them.
(04:20:30 PM) RoAkSoAx: +1 dudus
(04:21:09 PM) crimsun: second, I think the idea that seems to be best communicated is the contribution.  To that end, I feel something containing "contributor" is less vague than something containing "member."
(04:21:19 PM) crimsun: (or "supporter")
(04:21:21 PM) james_w: anyone object to any outright?
(04:21:42 PM) ***sistpoty objects to hackers (and monkeys :P)
(04:21:46 PM) slangasek: I object to "apprentice"
(04:22:09 PM) crimsun: I think "Ubuntu universe contributors" meets quite a few criteria.
(04:22:13 PM) james_w: crimsun: yes, the issue was that we currently have a universe-contributors team, but it doesn't mean we can't live with that or rename it.
(04:22:15 PM) slangasek: which would imply an apprenticeship relationship that's not necessarily there
(04:22:36 PM) james_w: slangasek: yep, that's the argument that was raised against that one
(04:22:42 PM) sistpoty: ok, what do we have left in the list?
(04:22:45 PM) crimsun: first, consider DDs, DMs, etc., who have contributed either through their Debian work or directly to Ubuntu.
(04:22:56 PM) james_w: and people may be perfectly happy in this new group without becoming MOTU
(04:23:30 PM) crimsun: second, consider people who are newly working on Ubuntu universe packages [which seems to be the target audience, no?]
(04:23:54 PM) james_w: -supporters and -contributors seem to be the least disliked.
(04:24:08 PM) sistpoty: "Ubuntu contributing developer" (or s.th. in that scheme), "ubuntu-members-universe", what else?
(04:24:44 PM) slangasek: "masters of the universe" -> "bachelors of the universe"
(04:24:47 PM) slangasek: >:)
(04:24:51 PM) dudus: sistpoty: ubuntu-motu-supporters
(04:25:07 PM) sistpoty: ok, then let's vote on these four
(04:25:36 PM) sistpoty: [STARTVOTE] Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
(04:25:43 PM) sistpoty: #STARTVOTE Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
(04:25:56 PM) sistpoty: how do I start a vote?
(04:25:59 PM) sistpoty: *g*
(04:26:20 PM) sebner: sistpoty: [VOTE] Bla bla
(04:26:25 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it)
(04:26:26 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  Ubuntu contributing developer (or s.th. from that scheme, e.g. in other order or w.o. ubuntu in it).
(04:26:26 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(04:26:26 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(04:26:33 PM) geser: how many votes can one give?
(04:26:41 PM) sistpoty: one for each name
(04:26:51 PM) james_w: +1
(04:26:52 PM) MootBot: +1 received from james_w. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
(04:26:54 PM) crimsun: +1
(04:26:55 PM) MootBot: +1 received from crimsun. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
(04:26:57 PM) sistpoty: +1
(04:26:57 PM) MootBot: +1 received from sistpoty. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
(04:26:58 PM) geser: +1
(04:26:59 PM) MootBot: +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
(04:27:10 PM) dudus: -1
(04:27:10 PM) MootBot: -1 received from dudus. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
(04:27:29 PM) sistpoty: ... 3
(04:27:31 PM) sistpoty: ... 2
(04:27:34 PM) sistpoty: 1
(04:27:41 PM) sebner: sistpoty: "meins"
(04:27:41 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(04:27:42 PM) MootBot: Final result is 4 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
(04:27:49 PM) geser: :)
(04:28:14 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] ubuntu-members-universe
(04:28:14 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  ubuntu-members-universe.
(04:28:14 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(04:28:14 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(04:28:20 PM) sistpoty: +0
(04:28:20 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from sistpoty. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
(04:28:28 PM) james_w: +0
(04:28:28 PM) crimsun: -1
(04:28:29 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from james_w. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
(04:28:29 PM) MootBot: -1 received from crimsun. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
(04:28:29 PM) dudus: +0
(04:28:29 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from dudus. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
(04:28:32 PM) geser: -1
(04:28:32 PM) MootBot: -1 received from geser. 0 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
(04:28:50 PM) james_w: sistpoty: it was your proposal :-)
(04:29:12 PM) sistpoty: james_w: that's why I abstained :P
(04:29:15 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(04:29:16 PM) MootBot: Final result is 0 for, 2 against. 3 abstained. Total: -2
(04:29:42 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] bachelors of the universe
(04:29:42 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  bachelors of the universe.
(04:29:42 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(04:29:42 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(04:29:57 PM) james_w: -1
(04:29:57 PM) MootBot: -1 received from james_w. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
(04:29:59 PM) crimsun: -1
(04:29:59 PM) MootBot: -1 received from crimsun. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
(04:30:02 PM) sistpoty: +0
(04:30:03 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from sistpoty. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
(04:30:04 PM) RoAkSoAx left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(04:30:12 PM) geser: +0
(04:30:12 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from geser. 0 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
(04:30:15 PM) dudus: -1
(04:30:16 PM) MootBot: -1 received from dudus. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
(04:30:30 PM) james_w: sistpoty: no offence, it's funny, but I don't think it's a good choice.
(04:30:55 PM) sistpoty: james_w: actually I don't like it too much myself *g*
(04:30:59 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(04:31:00 PM) MootBot: Final result is 0 for, 3 against. 2 abstained. Total: -3
(04:31:14 PM) sistpoty: what was the last one we wanted to vote about? supporters?
(04:31:22 PM) james_w: yup
(04:31:33 PM) dudus: ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters
(04:31:47 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters
(04:31:48 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  ubuntu-motu-supporters or Ubuntu MOTU Supporters.
(04:31:48 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(04:31:48 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(04:31:52 PM) dudus: +1
(04:31:52 PM) MootBot: +1 received from dudus. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
(04:31:52 PM) sebner: or just MOTU Supporters?
(04:31:53 PM) dudus: ftw
(04:31:53 PM) sistpoty: +1
(04:31:53 PM) MootBot: +1 received from sistpoty. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
(04:32:00 PM) geser: -1
(04:32:00 PM) MootBot: -1 received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
(04:32:04 PM) james_w: -1
(04:32:05 PM) MootBot: -1 received from james_w. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
(04:32:11 PM) crimsun: -1
(04:32:11 PM) MootBot: -1 received from crimsun. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
(04:32:38 PM) RainCT: -1
(04:32:39 PM) MootBot: -1 received from RainCT. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
(04:32:43 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(04:32:43 PM) MootBot: Final result is 2 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -2
(04:32:51 PM) sebner: sistpoty: is this the end or do you make a final vote with the 2 or 3 best?=
(04:32:51 PM) james_w: sebner: you're not voting?
(04:32:57 PM) sebner: james_w: no MOTU
(04:33:15 PM) james_w: you have to be a MOTU to vote?
(04:33:20 PM) sebner: james_w: yes ^^
(04:33:28 PM) sebner: RainCT: damn you
(04:33:31 PM) dudus: oops im not a motu
(04:33:33 PM) sebner: RainCT: that was *my* name
(04:33:43 PM) sebner: dudus: xD
(04:33:43 PM) sistpoty: it also concerns non-motus, so imho you don't need to be a motu to vote
(04:33:46 PM) RainCT: sebner: lol
(04:33:53 PM) sebner: sistpoty: so we have to restart
(04:33:53 PM) sebner: ^^
(04:33:54 PM) RainCT: sebner: say that before, then I'd have voted -2 *g*
(04:33:55 PM) sebner: for me ^^
(04:33:56 PM) sistpoty: s/also/mainly/ (even)
(04:34:05 PM) sebner: RainCT: arghhhhh xD
(04:34:35 PM) james_w: sistpoty: I agree (and also, I'm not, so I don't want to have made a mistake :-)
(04:35:05 PM) sistpoty: ok, we've got a total of +3 for the contributors and a total of -2 as second rank for the supporters
(04:35:36 PM) sistpoty: so, if anyone thinks that we should revote between these two (I don't), please shout now ;)
(04:35:45 PM) james_w: it seems pretty decisive.
(04:36:10 PM) sistpoty: ok, then we'll only need to fiddle out the precise wording... I don't mind anything... ideas?
(04:36:33 PM) RainCT: ehm.. sorry, could someone summarize what has been decided please?
(04:36:41 PM) james_w: we need 3 names apparently. The lp team id, the lp team name, and the wiki name
(04:37:12 PM) james_w: RainCT: we were discussing the name of the new team that will be used to grant membership to people who do good work in universe.
(04:37:26 PM) sistpoty: RainCT: that we'll name the new team with s.th. from the scheme "ubuntu universe contributors" (maybe with/without ubuntu, or e.g. ubuntu contributing developers)
(04:37:36 PM) geser: james_w: I'd propose to keep the names the same (as far as possible) to not confuse people
(04:37:43 PM) crimsun: I would try to avoid "dev" in the string, since that namespace seems pretty busy already with -core-dev and the obsolete -dev
(04:37:48 PM) sistpoty: geser: +1
(04:38:19 PM) james_w: geser: yep, I don't see why the second two can't be the same, this is just what persia was saying last time.
(04:38:29 PM) sistpoty: I'd try to not name it ubuntu-universe-contributors (at least the lp name), since that would mean some transition problems with the current team named like this
(04:38:37 PM) james_w: sistpoty: yep
(04:38:51 PM) james_w: ubuntu-contributing-developers?
(04:39:00 PM) sistpoty: works for me
(04:39:16 PM) james_w: ubuntu-contributors-universe :-)
(04:39:30 PM) sistpoty: yeah, even better
(04:39:32 PM) james_w: -devs? to keep it shorter?
(04:39:55 PM) sistpoty: james_w: that would clash with what crimsun noted
(04:40:02 PM) james_w: true
(04:40:04 PM) geser: if we want to keep u-u-c (and not rename it to some else) I'd say the new name should have some difference from it
(04:40:17 PM) crimsun: ubuntu-contributors-universe seems distinct "enough"
(04:40:37 PM) geser: u-c-u as abbravation?
(04:40:48 PM) sistpoty: geser: for what, lp name?
(04:41:31 PM) geser: sistpoty: nothing special, more when we use it e.g. in IRC
(04:41:41 PM) sistpoty: sure
(04:42:00 PM) ***LaserJock waves
(04:42:05 PM) james_w: hi LaserJock
(04:42:05 PM) crimsun: ('lo)
(04:42:28 PM) geser: I see the risk that people mix up "ubuntu-universe-contributors" (open team) and "ubuntu-contributors-universe" (restricted team)
(04:42:28 PM) james_w: so, any objections to ubuntu-contributors-universe?
(04:42:32 PM) geser: Hi LaserJock
(04:42:33 PM) crimsun: geser: agreed
(04:42:53 PM) sistpoty: geser: imo we should rename u-u-c ASAP
(04:42:56 PM) RainCT: geser: +1
(04:43:08 PM) james_w: yeah, shall we discuss renaming u-u-c?
(04:43:11 PM) LaserJock: ohhhh, this topic :-)
(04:43:13 PM) ***RainCT would rename u-u-c to revu-users, revu-cotnributors or something
(04:43:35 PM) sistpoty: let's first try to find a name... *g*
(04:43:51 PM) sebner: RainCT: but e.g I'm in this team and haven't used revu yet ..
(04:43:56 PM) sistpoty: so, ubuntu-contributors-universe may be too close... what else?
(04:43:59 PM) james_w: RainCT: the objection to that is that we may want to have an open team for some other purpose, and more than one open team seems counter-productive.
(04:44:01 PM) RainCT: sebner: why are you there then? xD
(04:44:01 PM) crimsun: "triagers"
(04:44:08 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: what are we deciding on?
(04:44:10 PM) RainCT: ah
(04:44:10 PM) sebner: RainCT: merging and syncing :P
(04:44:18 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: name for the monkey team ;)
(04:44:22 PM) RainCT: sebner: but that doesn't require being in u-u-c, or?
(04:44:30 PM) LaserJock: what about Hackers? what happened with that one?
(04:44:31 PM) james_w: how about the -supporters name for the open team?
(04:44:41 PM) sebner: RainCT: no but indicates that I'm working for ubuntu :P
(04:44:45 PM) RainCT: heh
(04:44:45 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: it was objected on
(04:45:03 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: but is that the team we're working on or u-u-c ?
(04:45:13 PM) crimsun: we're considering renaming the current u-u-c
(04:45:33 PM) LaserJock: but what happened to dholbach's proposed Hackers team?
(04:45:41 PM) LaserJock: has that been resolved?
(04:46:00 PM) sistpoty: actually, I'm trying to reshift the topic back to this right now...
(04:46:22 PM) sistpoty: please, let's first find a name for the hackers team... otherwise we might be discussing this the next 5 meetings again :P
(04:46:31 PM) geser: LaserJock: not really, the proposal for now is "ubuntu-contributors-universe" which clashes with current u-u-c and we are trying to figure out what to do with u-u-c
(04:46:47 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: we've voted so far that it should have contributors in thte name
(04:46:51 PM) sistpoty: -t
(04:47:14 PM) sistpoty: so what other options with contributors do we have?
(04:47:25 PM) james_w: sistpoty: old or new :-)
(04:47:27 PM) LaserJock: well, my proposal was this, MOTU Apprentices and REVU Contributors for the two teams
(04:47:28 PM) RainCT: prospective-ubuntu-developers? xDD
(04:47:34 PM) sistpoty: james_w: new
(04:47:35 PM) ***RainCT hides
(04:47:57 PM) ***sistpoty grows gray hair
(04:47:57 PM) crimsun: I'm fine with "dev" as long as what separates it from the current u-u-c is unambiguous
(04:48:18 PM) james_w: ubuntu-contributing-devs?
(04:48:25 PM) crimsun: sure
(04:48:31 PM) LaserJock: I'm not fond of that
(04:48:49 PM) LaserJock: ok, can I suggest that perhaps we define what the teams functions are?
(04:48:57 PM) LaserJock: I think that would go a long ways towards getting a name
(04:49:01 PM) sebner: MOTU Supporters :P
(04:49:07 PM) james_w: LaserJock: we have that already I thought.
(04:49:20 PM) crimsun: people who have a sustained contribution to Ubuntu universe, including triaging, merging, syncing, etc.
(04:49:23 PM) LaserJock: james_w: the names suggestions I've seen don't seem to indicate that , IMO
(04:49:33 PM) crimsun: They are granted Ubuntu membership, additionally.
(04:49:55 PM) LaserJock: so they are people on their way to MOTUship, who have a significant and sustained contribution to Universe
(04:50:01 PM) LaserJock: that's my working definition anyway
(04:50:14 PM) crimsun: yes, AFAICS
(04:50:17 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: ok, what's your problem with ubuntu-contributing-devs and what is your suggestion instead (must have contribute in the name)
(04:50:19 PM) james_w: yep, they don't have to go for MOTU, but that's the idea.
(04:50:50 PM) ***RainCT likes MOTU Supporters 
(04:50:59 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: I said MOTU Apprentices
(04:51:18 PM) LaserJock: I think having "contribute" in the name of this team is a mistake, personally
(04:51:22 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: that doesn't have contribute in the name... of course we can restart with voting on everything from scratch if you prefer
(04:51:33 PM) james_w: LaserJock: that was considered, but argued against.
(04:51:47 PM) geser: slangasek noted that "apprentice" might imply a apprenticeship which isn't there
(04:52:11 PM) LaserJock: it should
(04:52:16 PM) sebner: RainCT: you voted with -1 for this name xD
(04:52:19 PM) LaserJock: that would be the goal of the team
(04:52:30 PM) LaserJock: apprenticeship towards MOTU
(04:52:32 PM) RainCT: sebner: I didn't really know what we were voting *g*
(04:52:34 PM) james_w: another objection was that it suggested they were aiming for MOTU when they might not be.
(04:52:40 PM) LaserJock: they should be
(04:52:53 PM) LaserJock: again, this is why I wanted a definition of what the team means
(04:52:54 PM) crimsun: uh, let's not restrict their freedoms.
(04:52:59 PM) LaserJock: why not?
(04:53:06 PM) sebner: RainCT: freak xD
(04:53:07 PM) geser: yes, but nobody is forcing them if they are happy to stay in that group
(04:53:13 PM) LaserJock: I don't feel the need to create a team for *every* possible person
(04:53:17 PM) crimsun: if people feel strongly to contribute only a certain amount and be recognised for it.
(04:53:24 PM) sebner: folks. 7 minutes left. come to an end. please ;)
(04:53:29 PM) LaserJock: if people are working towards becoming MOTU or a developer they have no place in the team, IMO
(04:53:36 PM) LaserJock: *not working
(04:53:56 PM) james_w: LaserJock: there have been many, many names proposed, and not one has had unanimous acceptance, so we need to come to a consensus.
(04:54:00 PM) crimsun: is apprenticeship a prerequisite?
(04:54:19 PM) LaserJock: I think that's what it should mean
(04:54:20 PM) crimsun: I don't see why having a mentor is a prerequisite.
(04:54:26 PM) LaserJock: MOTU is the mentor
(04:54:40 PM) RainCT: what's about voting this in Launchpad?
(04:54:45 PM) crimsun: doesn't that obviate needing "apprentice"?
(04:54:53 PM) LaserJock: how so?
(04:55:03 PM) crimsun: it's understood that MOTU is the mentor
(04:55:04 PM) james_w: LaserJock: there may well be people who don't want to be MOTU, as there are extra responsibilities as well.
(04:55:05 PM) geser: RainCT: do you really hope to get a better decision this way?
(04:55:18 PM) LaserJock: james_w: and I don't think they should be in this team
(04:55:32 PM) sistpoty: ok, this actually all doesn't bring us in any way forward to finding a name... should we shift topics first?
(04:55:48 PM) james_w: LaserJock: not everyone feels the same way as you about that, and as I said, we need consensus.
(04:55:59 PM) LaserJock: well, I do think nailing down what the purpose of this team is will go a long ways
(04:56:12 PM) LaserJock: james_w: no, we don't need consensus
(04:56:14 PM) LaserJock: :-)
(04:56:18 PM) crimsun: consensus may be a bit overreaching.  At least a lot of people agreeing.
(04:56:19 PM) james_w: heh
(04:56:39 PM) LaserJock: everybody deciding the *wrong* thing doesn't do us any good
(04:56:43 PM) james_w: sistpoty: do you have an alternative topic?
(04:56:49 PM) LaserJock: we want consensus around a good decisions, right?
(04:56:55 PM) james_w: LaserJock: yes
(04:57:00 PM) LaserJock: k
(04:57:03 PM) crimsun: LaserJock: given our representation, it's hardly fair.
(04:57:10 PM) crimsun: there are far more MOTU here than non-MOTU.
(04:57:16 PM) sistpoty: james_w: e.g. the meaning of the team or s.th.
(04:57:17 PM) LaserJock: this is about MOTU
(04:57:49 PM) crimsun: no, this is about people who may choose to pursue MOTU further.
(04:58:07 PM) LaserJock: I would say this is about how MOTU wants to develop new MOTU
(04:58:19 PM) james_w: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003523.html
(04:58:40 PM) LaserJock: this whole thing is about people getting MOTUship
(04:58:54 PM) LaserJock: it was about requiring Ubuntu Membership for MOTUship
(04:59:08 PM) james_w: at the last meeting there was broad agreement with this statement about what the team would be, although the specific criteria for joining were adjusted.
(04:59:20 PM) LaserJock: so this team is supposed to be the MOTU equivalent of Ubuntu Membership, right?
(04:59:29 PM) geser: but we shouldn't force people towards MOTU to let them keep the Ubuntu memmbership
(04:59:30 PM) LaserJock: so I don't think it's a stretch to say it's about MOTU
(04:59:42 PM) LaserJock: geser: they can go for Ubuntu Membership then
(04:59:44 PM) LaserJock: no problems
(04:59:48 PM) ***sistpoty admits he totally failed in chairing the meeting
(05:00:00 PM) LaserJock: we aren't preventing them from gaining Ubuntu Membership
(05:00:13 PM) LaserJock: I really don't see the problem in limiting the scope of the team
(05:00:20 PM) james_w: LaserJock: yes, but the MOTU council are the best ones to judge whether they have earned it, and this is the mechanism they will use.
(05:00:23 PM) geser: LaserJock: who should grant it them? the regional boards?
(05:00:31 PM) LaserJock: geser: the CC as always
(05:00:31 PM) sebner: sistpoty: we should come to an end. time is up and next meeting will be the same ..
(05:00:51 PM) james_w: LaserJock: how do you propose to enforce this requirement?
(05:01:06 PM) crimsun: well, in retrospect, why not just choose what Emmet described in the e-mail?
(05:01:11 PM) geser: LaserJock: the CC will stop granting membership and delegate this (afaik)
(05:01:23 PM) LaserJock: geser: that's not true, as I understand it
(05:01:34 PM) LaserJock: most will be delegated, but not all surely
(05:01:43 PM) geser: oh, has it changed again? I might not be uptodate on it
(05:01:49 PM) LaserJock: I don't know
(05:01:58 PM) LaserJock: but it'd be ridiculous to do so
(05:02:31 PM) LaserJock: james_w: which requirement?
(05:02:41 PM) james_w: that people go on to become MOTU
(05:02:50 PM) LaserJock: well, they don't *have* to
(05:02:54 PM) LaserJock: but that'd be the point
(05:03:07 PM) LaserJock: you don't have to enforce it
(05:03:20 PM) james_w: so you wouldn't let someone in who said that they didn't intend to aim for MOTU, but you would if they lied about it?
(05:03:28 PM) LaserJock: uh, yeah
(05:03:31 PM) LaserJock: I guess so
(05:03:43 PM) LaserJock: if they wanted to lie about it that's their problem
(05:03:52 PM) LaserJock: I just don't know why you'd want to do that
(05:04:42 PM) james_w: ok, how about someone who fully intends to go for MOTU, but then becomes more involved at work and doesn't have the time to contribute any more?
(05:04:55 PM) LaserJock: fine
(05:05:02 PM) LaserJock: I really don't care
(05:05:18 PM) james_w: would you revoke their Ubuntu membership as they were no longer going for MOTU, or transfer them to another membership group perhaps?
(05:05:19 PM) LaserJock: I just think the stated purpose of the team should be "on the way to MOTUship"
(05:05:27 PM) LaserJock: no, I wouldn't
(05:05:34 PM) LaserJock: if you don't want to be in a team anymore you leave
(05:05:53 PM) LaserJock: eventually they would expire if they don't want to be a part of the team, etc.
(05:06:13 PM) sistpoty: ok, now can we go back to the topic of finding a name please?
(05:06:15 PM) james_w: sure, so we're a long way of track now
(05:06:32 PM) james_w: sistpoty: yes please
(05:06:51 PM) LaserJock: well, i don't think you can name a team you don't know the purpose of, but I won't stand in your way
(05:07:35 PM) james_w: LaserJock: you say "don't know", but you seem to only have a problem with one small part, whether the focus is to get people to become MOTUs or not.
(05:07:51 PM) LaserJock: well, there's more
(05:07:56 PM) LaserJock: that's just the first one I hit on ;-)
(05:08:05 PM) sistpoty: PLEASE. NAME. NOW. MEANING OF TEAM LATER!
(05:08:06 PM) james_w: and I think the aim is to get people there, but I realise people may want to stop along the way.
(05:08:19 PM) sistpoty: *me coughs from shouting*
(05:08:21 PM) james_w: sistpoty: yes, sorry.
(05:08:39 PM) sistpoty: ok, to what consensus of the name did we come so far
(05:08:43 PM) james_w: are we going to stick with what we had?
(05:08:52 PM) sistpoty: what did we have actually?
(05:09:12 PM) sistpoty: s.th. with contributors in the name, imho the last proposal was univers-contributing-devs, right?
(05:09:18 PM) sistpoty: +e somewhere
(05:09:32 PM) LaserJock: are they developers?
(05:09:35 PM) LaserJock: can they upload?
(05:09:43 PM) LaserJock: what about just general people contributing?
(05:09:53 PM) sistpoty: they contribute to the developers...
(05:09:55 PM) LaserJock: those are my issues with that name
(05:10:14 PM) LaserJock: but that says nothing to the "significant and sustained contribution to Universe"
(05:10:18 PM) crimsun: they have and can continue to) contributed.
(05:10:18 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: then please make a better suggestion *with "contribute" in it*
(05:10:23 PM) LaserJock: it's just anybody who's made a contribution
(05:10:39 PM) LaserJock: and now "devs" means something more than upload rights
(05:10:46 PM) LaserJock: which makes things a tad bit more muddled, IMO
(05:10:55 PM) crimsun: LaserJock: no, I would say it's someone who has chosen to _come forward into Ubuntu_ and contribute to Ubuntu universe
(05:11:27 PM) LaserJock: I wouldn't mind Universe Contributors
(05:11:28 PM) crimsun: here I draw a distinction between DDs, DMs, etc., who have not chosen so
(05:11:33 PM) LaserJock: the -devs is getting me
(05:12:05 PM) sistpoty: so just "universe-contributors"? or is that too close to the current "ubuntu-universe-contributors"?
(05:12:26 PM) sebner: sistpoty: too close. universe-supporters?
(05:12:30 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: I think that should change
(05:12:36 PM) LaserJock: u-u-c should change
(05:12:39 PM) sistpoty: sebner: you'r out :P
(05:12:40 PM) LaserJock: because that's not what it means
(05:12:50 PM) sebner: sistpoty: I see ^^
(05:12:57 PM) LaserJock: it's a REVU permission team,  not people who contribute to Universe
(05:13:05 PM) LaserJock: so ...
(05:13:15 PM) crimsun: universe-contributing-heroes?  </tongue-in-cheek>
(05:13:27 PM) LaserJock: not bad
(05:13:58 PM) sistpoty: hm... might be not serious enough for some, but I won't object to any name right now actually ;)
(05:14:02 PM) james_w: LaserJock: the objection to renaming it to revu-uploaders or similar is that we may want to re-use the team for something else later
(05:14:11 PM) LaserJock: james_w: then have a different team
(05:14:26 PM) geser: sistpoty: one more hour and you will be happy with ~ubuntu-hackers :)
(05:14:35 PM) LaserJock: hah
(05:14:40 PM) sebner: or motu-supporters xD
(05:14:44 PM) ***sistpoty is going bananas
(05:14:50 PM) sistpoty: let's call it monkeys :)
(05:14:53 PM) LaserJock: james_w: we need a team for REVU permission, plain and simple
(05:15:05 PM) LaserJock: if we need something else we can create something else
(05:15:15 PM) sistpoty: yes, the revu team is also a separate topic
(05:15:32 PM) LaserJock: ok, so how about Universe Contributors then?
(05:15:35 PM) LaserJock: can we vote on that?
(05:15:47 PM) sistpoty: ok, let's do it
(05:15:54 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] Universe Contributors
(05:15:55 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  Universe Contributors.
(05:15:55 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(05:15:55 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(05:16:00 PM) sistpoty: +1
(05:16:00 PM) MootBot: +1 received from sistpoty. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
(05:16:05 PM) LaserJock: +1
(05:16:05 PM) MootBot: +1 received from LaserJock. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
(05:16:14 PM) sebner: sistpoty: don't just vote +1 to come to an end ^^
(05:16:18 PM) james_w: er, what are we voting for?
(05:16:26 PM) LaserJock: james_w: Universe Contributors
(05:16:26 PM) sebner: james_w: name
(05:16:31 PM) geser: should this be the new name for ~ubuntu-hackers?
(05:16:31 PM) sistpoty: team name "Universe contributors"
(05:16:36 PM) sistpoty: geser: yes
(05:16:37 PM) LaserJock: geser: yep
(05:16:37 PM) james_w: we already had that didn't we?
(05:16:38 PM) sebner: +0
(05:16:38 PM) MootBot: Abstention received from sebner. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
(05:16:42 PM) james_w: +1
(05:16:43 PM) MootBot: +1 received from james_w. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
(05:16:44 PM) RainCT: +1
(05:16:44 PM) MootBot: +1 received from RainCT. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
(05:16:55 PM) crimsun: +1
(05:16:56 PM) MootBot: +1 received from crimsun. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
(05:16:56 PM) RainCT: but I think it clashes somewhat with ubuntu-universe-contributors
(05:16:57 PM) geser: and how do we want to call the open team?
(05:17:09 PM) LaserJock: ok, that's the second thing here
(05:17:14 PM) LaserJock: we're cookin' now
(05:17:16 PM) sistpoty: 3
(05:17:18 PM) sistpoty: 2
(05:17:20 PM) sistpoty: 1
(05:17:23 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(05:17:23 PM) MootBot: Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
(05:17:36 PM) james_w: we do need the lp id for this team though.
(05:17:39 PM) sistpoty: wohoo, we finally found a name for the first team.. what do we want to discuss next?
(05:17:43 PM) LaserJock: ok, the how about REVU Contributors for the old u-u-c?
(05:17:52 PM) LaserJock: james_w: universe-contributors
(05:17:53 PM) LaserJock: ?
(05:17:55 PM) sebner: sistpoty: the new name for the old contributors team?
(05:18:08 PM) crimsun: ~universe-contributors seems fine
(05:18:11 PM) james_w: cool
(05:18:15 PM) sistpoty: either name of the uploader team for revu (currently known as ubuntu-universe-contributors) or about the meaning of the team now known as universe-contributors?
(05:18:18 PM) crimsun: after all, we do have ~motu
(05:18:57 PM) LaserJock: I think we need to rename u-u-c now to avoid confusion
(05:19:07 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: right?
(05:19:07 PM) sistpoty: [TOPIC] team name (and discussion) for current ubuntu-universe-contributors
(05:19:07 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  team name (and discussion) for current ubuntu-universe-contributors
(05:19:27 PM) sebner: contribution-beginners
(05:19:29 PM) LaserJock: I would go with REVU Contributors or REVU Uploaders
(05:19:30 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: yes, we should do... now let's discuss that
(05:19:49 PM) james_w: I think sebner -supporters would be good here.
(05:20:05 PM) sistpoty: imo revu uploaders is fine for me as well... however there was a discussion to have that team also for other privileges in the future
(05:20:13 PM) sebner: james_w: hmm for me supporters value more than contributors ...
(05:20:38 PM) sistpoty: imo, since there is no current idea, for what this team can/will be used in the future, we should go with revu-uploaders and reconsider, *once* there is a concrete idea
(05:20:42 PM) LaserJock: I think it's really a mistake to base the name of a present team with present purpose based on something we may or may not do in the future
(05:20:45 PM) geser: sistpoty: is the plan to split the revu upload team and the open team or keep it one team?
(05:21:08 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: agreed
(05:21:16 PM) sistpoty: geser: currently there is no real plan at all, just ideas what could theoretically be done in the future
(05:21:25 PM) sebner: sistpoty: I have an idea ;) ^^
(05:21:42 PM) james_w: I think there would be value in having one open team you join to get you all privileges you can have without clearing some barrier, and have an open team that people can join just because they like MOTU and would like to join in
(05:21:57 PM) james_w: just like sebner did with the current u-u-c apparently.
(05:22:03 PM) LaserJock: james_w: what would be the purpose of such a "fanboy" team?
(05:22:05 PM) RainCT: james_w: and what would those privilegies be?
(05:22:58 PM) james_w: LaserJock: some people just like it, and it reflects that there is a low barrier to entry, the first step really is open.
(05:23:12 PM) persia: LaserJock: even without privileges, someone who puts up a couple packages and joins the team may then be be able to say they are part of something
(05:23:14 PM) james_w: RainCT: I don't know I'm afraid.
(05:23:24 PM) sebner: persia: heya. save us :)
(05:23:31 PM) james_w: hi persia
(05:23:41 PM) LaserJock: I think it's a big mistake, personally
(05:23:41 PM) geser: Hi persia
(05:23:47 PM) sistpoty: well, I dislike the idea of having a fanboy team actually. I guess you mainly get team collectors for that team then
(05:23:47 PM) LaserJock: we don't need fanboy teams
(05:24:03 PM) james_w: shall we just move this one to a vote?
(05:24:11 PM) LaserJock: Universe Contributors should be a fairly low barrier
(05:24:26 PM) sistpoty: hey persia, seems like we found at least a name for the hackers team *g+
(05:24:49 PM) persia: LaserJock: The team that CC granted (voted above as Universe Contributors) must have the same level of commitment as any other Ubuntu Member.
(05:24:50 PM) geser: sistpoty: we could start again now that persia is here *g*
(05:25:03 PM) LaserJock: persia: sure, which is a low barrier
(05:25:03 PM) sistpoty: heh
(05:25:11 PM) ***persia was abstaining previously anyway: I'm convinced it's bikeshedding to a certain degree.
(05:25:22 PM) LaserJock: almost completely
(05:25:24 PM) LaserJock: ;-)
(05:25:48 PM) sistpoty: james_w: on what do we want to vote?
(05:25:59 PM) LaserJock: but if we're gonna make up teams for the heck of it they oughta have good names ;-)
(05:26:18 PM) sistpoty: heh
(05:26:22 PM) james_w: whether to rename to team to something revu specific, or something general.
(05:26:35 PM) sistpoty: ok, sounds like a good idea
(05:27:01 PM) james_w: would one vote work? Negative means general, positive revu-specific?
(05:27:02 PM) sistpoty: please vote with +1 to rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general, and -1 for s.th. revu-specific
(05:27:11 PM) james_w: or that one :-)
(05:27:17 PM) sistpoty: heh
(05:27:26 PM) LaserJock: is the vote set up?
(05:27:29 PM) sistpoty: [VOTE] rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general
(05:27:29 PM) MootBot: Please vote on:  rename the current ubuntu-universe-contributors to something general.
(05:27:29 PM) MootBot: Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
(05:27:29 PM) MootBot: E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
(05:27:34 PM) persia: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html are the agreed criteria.  Those shan't change.
(05:27:43 PM) LaserJock: -1
(05:27:43 PM) MootBot: -1 received from LaserJock. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
(05:27:47 PM) james_w: +1
(05:27:47 PM) MootBot: +1 received from james_w. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
(05:27:51 PM) RainCT: -1
(05:27:51 PM) MootBot: -1 received from RainCT. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
(05:27:52 PM) sistpoty: [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html
(05:27:52 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003593.html
(05:28:03 PM) sistpoty: -1
(05:28:03 PM) MootBot: -1 received from sistpoty. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
(05:28:17 PM) persia: +1
(05:28:17 PM) MootBot: +1 received from persia. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
(05:28:40 PM) sistpoty: 3
(05:28:42 PM) sistpoty: 2
(05:28:44 PM) sistpoty: 1
(05:28:48 PM) sistpoty: [ENDVOTE]
(05:28:48 PM) MootBot: Final result is 2 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -1
(05:28:53 PM) LaserJock: the stated purpose of the team, btw is "This team holds all members, which may upload to revu"
(05:29:42 PM) persia: LaserJock: That's just text.
(05:29:44 PM) LaserJock: so, IMO, we're just fixing a misnaming in the first place ;-)
(05:29:46 PM) sistpoty: ok, so we'll rename ubuntu-universe-contributors to a team to s.th. revu specific
(05:29:47 PM) LaserJock: no, it's not
(05:30:03 PM) LaserJock: it's the text that all the people in that team *agreed* to
(05:30:12 PM) LaserJock: we can't just go around repurposing teams like that
(05:30:39 PM) sistpoty: which we don't do now, even though the result was by a small minority
(05:30:39 PM) persia: I'm happy with an entitlements team for REVU, but still think there ought be some open team to which interested new developers are encouraged to join, even without specific entitlements.
(05:30:40 PM) LaserJock: IMO at least, which may not be worth a whole lot I realize
(05:30:53 PM) ubotu has changed the topic to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
(05:31:07 PM) LaserJock: persia: what would be the point?
(05:31:20 PM) persia: LaserJock: People can be part of the team?
(05:31:26 PM) LaserJock: but they aren't
(05:31:32 PM) sistpoty: ok, do we want to vote about having such a team as well?
(05:31:44 PM) LaserJock: they're a part of the team "on paper" but it's basically meaningless
(05:31:56 PM) sistpoty: OTOH I believe noone will hinder anyone from founding such a team
(05:32:18 PM) LaserJock: I would push to have such a team removed if it wasn't approved by MOTU
(05:32:30 PM) persia: Why not?  If someone new comes and gets their hands dirty, aren't they part of the team?  I think this happens before they have reached the criteria for membership in the new restricted group.
(05:32:32 PM) LaserJock: but I might be just a tad cranky today
(05:32:46 PM) LaserJock: I got through cleaning up a few such "open" teams
(05:32:49 PM) LaserJock: they are worthless
(05:32:55 PM) LaserJock: and I wish we could make them go away
(05:33:05 PM) ***persia wants membership to expire after a while, unless people are active
(05:33:25 PM) LaserJock: why do you have to have an LP team to contribute
(05:33:42 PM) LaserJock: this is ridiculous. teams are they for functions
(05:33:46 PM) crimsun: LaserJock: you don't have to.
(05:33:53 PM) geser: Hi norsetto
(05:33:59 PM) norsetto: hi geser
(05:34:01 PM) persia: You don't.  But having an LP team can give a shiny LP emblem, which is nice for people not already on many teams.
(05:34:02 PM) crimsun: I plan to allow all my Ubuntu memberships to expire and continue to contribute.
(05:34:02 PM) sebner: heya norsetto
(05:34:07 PM) norsetto: heya sebner
(05:34:11 PM) ***sistpoty crosses thumbs that we don't have to restart the whole meeting now *g*
(05:34:15 PM) sistpoty: hi norsetto
(05:34:24 PM) norsetto: sistpoty: greetings master
(05:34:34 PM) LaserJock: persia: but is that anything we really need
(05:34:54 PM) LaserJock: are we going to lose *valuable* contributors because we don't have a MOTU fanboy team?
(05:35:12 PM) persia: LaserJock: It's not something you or I need now.  It was something I liked when I was new, and I suspect other new people would like.
(05:35:12 PM) crimsun: I thought you said it was about membership.
(05:35:20 PM) crimsun: ^ LaserJock
(05:35:39 PM) LaserJock: crimsun: please, clarify
(05:35:51 PM) james_w: is there anything else to decide in this meeting? persia do you want to propose a new open team?
(05:36:02 PM) crimsun: are we still discussing ~universe-contributors?
(05:36:04 PM) LaserJock: oh, we don't have the name of the REVU team though
(05:36:08 PM) LaserJock: crimsun: no
(05:36:15 PM) sistpoty: crimsun: no, the old ubuntu-universe-contributors
(05:36:34 PM) sistpoty: LaserJock: good point. how about revu-uploaders?
(05:36:44 PM) LaserJock: sistpoty: I'm good with that
(05:36:55 PM) LaserJock: my only concern was confusion with REVU Hackers type teams
(05:36:57 PM) sistpoty: anyone objects to revu-uploaders... sebner? :P
(05:37:00 PM) persia: james_w: Given the time, I'm just as happy doing that at another meeting, if there's a point.  On the other hand, as long as discussion is active, I don't see the point of stopping.
(05:37:09 PM) crimsun: I'm fine with revu-uploaders.
(05:37:09 PM) LaserJock: i.e. revu-uploaders shouldn't mean those who upload REVU code ;-)
(05:37:22 PM) sebner: sistpoty: I don't mind ^^. But this is tooo revu specific
(05:37:23 PM) james_w: persia: sure, it's just I'm the one writing up the minutes :-)
(05:37:34 PM) persia: james_w: Ah :)
(05:37:38 PM) crimsun: seriously, most of this discussion is just syntactic sugar.  Or salt.  Or hotpants or something.
(05:37:59 PM) neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
(05:38:00 PM) LaserJock: crimsun: but syntax means stuff
(05:38:15 PM) sistpoty: ok, I guess we can agree on revu-uploaders, or does anyone prefer a vote?
(05:38:33 PM) sistpoty: [AGREED] new team name for ubuntu-universe-contributors is revu-uploaders
(05:38:34 PM) MootBot: AGREED received:  new team name for ubuntu-universe-contributors is revu-uploaders
(05:38:43 PM) persia: sebner: Could you expand on that?  As one of the non-MOTU about, your opinions about U-U-C identity are likely most current.
(05:39:30 PM) sebner: persia: too late
(05:39:32 PM) sebner: ^^
(05:39:35 PM) LaserJock: no
(05:39:36 PM) sebner: sistpoty: damn you
(05:39:45 PM) LaserJock: sebner: we can create a new team for you
(05:39:51 PM) sistpoty: sebner: but we already voted, that it *should be revu-specific*
(05:39:54 PM) LaserJock: I don't see the point
(05:39:56 PM) persia: sebner: I think it's still useful information to share, even if we agree on the team name that has upload permission to REVU
(05:39:58 PM) LaserJock: but we can do it :-)
(05:40:47 PM) LaserJock: sebner:  u-u-c -> revu-uploaders should have happened long ago, but we can certainly discuss a new u-u-c like team
(05:41:02 PM) sebner: persia: well. I know the old universe-contributors and the new name shows that was for REVU using. but I haven't used it yet but I'm happy to be in this team to show my ubuntu work. Doesn't matter now since I will jump to the new team
(05:41:13 PM) sebner: LaserJock: 2 are enough ^^
(05:41:31 PM) persia: sebner: OK.  To rephrase, can you explain why such a new open team is important to you?
(05:43:35 PM) sebner: persia: I really like the idea. You start your ubuntu contributions with this beginner team and if you are more experienced you can join the advanced team with the nice goodies. last step before becomming a motu.
(05:43:40 PM) sebner: hio ScottK
(05:43:43 PM) geser: ScottK: we have just decided to rename the old u-u-c to revu-uploaders and are discussing right now if a new open team is needed
(05:44:10 PM) persia: LaserJock: Does that make sense to you? (and try to remember when you were new)
(05:44:12 PM) ScottK: Did we pick a team for people who are members via MC?
(05:44:24 PM) persia: ScottK: "Universe Contributors"
(05:44:42 PM) ScottK: Sounds reasonable.  Thanks.
(05:44:49 PM) LaserJock: persia: it does but I see Universe Contributors as that team
(05:45:01 PM) crimsun left the room.
(05:45:08 PM) LaserJock: I'm not sure what a "0-barrier" team gets us
(05:45:11 PM) sebner: persia: but as I said. I don't like the revu thing for the beginner team :)
(05:45:17 PM) persia: LaserJock: It'll take 3-6 months to become a member of that team.  That's not quite so new anymore, in my opinion.
(05:45:27 PM) geser: ScottK: if we don't vote a third time on the name :)
(05:45:28 PM) sebner: persia: +1
(05:45:38 PM) ScottK: ;-)
(05:45:42 PM) sebner: geser: oh no xD
(05:45:52 PM) LaserJock: persia: why does it take 3-6 months
(05:45:57 PM) LaserJock: it should take 2
(05:46:01 PM) sistpoty: persia: hm... 3-6 month, how long then to become a motu then?
(05:46:09 PM) sebner: LaserJock: depends on how much do you contribute :P
(05:46:19 PM) sebner: maybe 2-4
(05:46:21 PM) persia: LaserJock: 3-6 has been the current standard for members from the CC.  I'm not opposed to 2.
(05:46:24 PM) sebner: sounds better
(05:46:28 PM) ScottK: Personally I don't see a need for any "Ooh I got another shiny team badge on my LP page" teams.
(05:46:42 PM) persia: sistpoty: Depends on level of activity, mostly.  I'd say 3-24 would be a good range.
(05:47:16 PM) sistpoty: persia: imho that would be a drastic step backwards, as then we'd be having a second kind of nm process (but maybe slower even?)
(05:47:47 PM) persia: sistpoty: How do you mean?  With timeframes, I'm only meaning to express current defaults.
(05:47:58 PM) persia: I add "24 months", as that was the time I took (about).
(05:48:27 PM) sistpoty: persia: oh, you took that long? didn't know that
(05:48:52 PM) sistpoty: ok, so do we want to agree or disagree or vote on anything yet?
(05:49:08 PM) persia: sistpoty: Yep.  Not everyone has the time to get enough done quickly.  I might have gotten in about 3 months earlier, but didn't really have enough time at that point to do enough to deserve MOTUship.
(05:49:23 PM) sistpoty: ah
(05:49:34 PM) ***RainCT goes to bed. good night all
(05:49:42 PM) sebner: I heard geser needed 2 months :P
(05:49:45 PM) sebner: gn8 RainCT
(05:49:55 PM) sistpoty: ok, I guess since the discussion is actually shifting towards motu, and RainCT is going to bed, let's move on to the fixed agenda points, shall we?
(05:50:05 PM) sebner: +1
(05:50:07 PM) sistpoty: towards the motu channel even
(05:50:27 PM) geser: sebner: 2 months for membership (via CC) and 2 months for MOTUship = around 4 months
(05:50:48 PM) sebner: geser: may be record :)
(05:50:53 PM) sistpoty: [TOPIC] next meeting
(05:50:54 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  next meeting
(05:51:20 PM) sistpoty: ok, meeting time's are fixed, right? so when's the next meeting?
(05:51:38 PM) sistpoty: that'd be 2 weeks from now, and 24/3 hours later
(05:51:40 PM) sebner: Are we finished and the agenda is empty now?
(05:51:53 PM) sistpoty: sebner: yes
(05:51:54 PM) james_w: sebner: there was only one item on the agenda
(05:52:06 PM) sebner: great
(05:52:14 PM) sebner: When can I join this team xD
(05:52:25 PM) geser: sebner: which team? :)
(05:52:30 PM) sebner: geser: xD xD xD
(05:52:31 PM) sistpoty: so next meeting is 9th may, 8UTC, right?
(05:52:39 PM) sebner: geser: contributors ;)
(05:52:42 PM) geser: sistpoty: 4UTC
(05:52:58 PM) sebner: uhh. bad time for me :\
(05:53:06 PM) sistpoty: geser: right, I miscalculated *g*
(05:53:18 PM) sistpoty: anyone volunteering to send out meeting announcemenets?
(05:53:23 PM) sistpoty: -e
(05:53:44 PM) sistpoty: anyone?
(05:53:48 PM) sebner: sistpoty: /me
(05:54:03 PM) sistpoty: [AGREED] sebner to send out meeting announcements
(05:54:03 PM) MootBot: AGREED received:  sebner to send out meeting announcements
(05:54:06 PM) sistpoty: thanks sebner:
(05:54:09 PM) sebner: np
(05:54:16 PM) sistpoty: anything else that should be discussed?
(05:54:21 PM) sebner: sistpoty: and now you have to tell me when I can join xD
(05:54:26 PM) sistpoty: :P
(05:54:30 PM) sistpoty: 3
(05:54:32 PM) sistpoty: 2
(05:54:34 PM) sistpoty: 1
(05:54:38 PM) sistpoty: [ENDMEETING]
(05:54:45 PM) sistpoty: #endmeeting
(05:54:45 PM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 23:54.
(05:54:49 PM) james_w: thanks sistpoty
(05:54:52 PM) sistpoty: phew :)
(05:54:55 PM) james_w: thanks everyone else
(05:54:57 PM) sistpoty: thanks everyone for coming
(05:55:01 PM) ScottK left the room ("Konversation terminated!").
(05:55:02 PM) sebner: sistpoty: hey
(05:55:10 PM) sebner: sistpoty: this was a serious question ;)
(05:55:31 PM) RainCT left the room (quit: "good_night_and_happy_hardy").
(05:55:34 PM) sistpoty: sebner: which team do you refer to actually, and with the new or the old name?
(05:55:35 PM) james_w: sebner: you can apply now.
(05:55:47 PM) geser: can the MC use the old ~hackers team or still some discussion needed?
(05:55:53 PM) sebner: sistpoty: of course our new team with the shiny goodies ;)
(05:56:09 PM) sebner: james_w: so fast? MC ready to approve people?
(05:56:17 PM) geser: the new name for it is "ubuntu contributors"?
(05:56:27 PM) james_w: sebner: I didn't say that, but there is one application already.
(05:56:36 PM) sistpoty: sebner: you can apply right now, not too sure when you can join though ;)
(05:56:40 PM) sebner: james_w: that'S the motu team ;)
(05:56:42 PM) geser: sebner: there is already one open application for that team
(05:56:57 PM) sebner: Ok
(05:57:08 PM) sebner: I'll update my wiki page and wait until it's renamed :D
(05:57:11 PM) sebner: Thanks everybody
(05:57:25 PM) sistpoty: geser: imo it's just renaming that team?
(05:58:12 PM) geser: that's the question. I'm a little bit lost about the current status.
(05:59:09 PM) persia: geser: From what I can tell, the new name is "Ubuntu Contributors", and it may be used.
(05:59:20 PM) geser: good
(05:59:38 PM) ***persia thinks that "Ubuntu Contributors" obscures non-development contributions, but doesn't want to restart the discussion
(05:59:53 PM) sebner: yeah
(05:59:57 PM) sebner: meeting restart
(06:00:14 PM) sebner: persia: isn't it universe contributors?
(06:00:30 PM) sistpoty: sebner: feel free to restart the meeting... (I'm free now from chairing .... *gg*)
(06:00:40 PM) sebner: hrhr
(06:00:58 PM) geser: I guess that team is currently best known as ~ubuntu-hackers :)
(06:01:20 PM) sebner: ^^
(06:01:29 PM) sistpoty: fun is, that I'm still trying to debootstrap an i386 hardy chroot (started *before* the meeting)
(06:02:34 PM) sebner: archives open again on 1st may right?
(06:02:59 PM) sistpoty: sebner: are they?
(06:03:04 PM) geser: sistpoty: slow mirror or slow cpu? debootstrap shouldn't usually take that long
(06:03:08 PM) slangasek: hrm? where does that date come from?
(06:03:15 PM) slangasek: they open again when the toolchain is in order
(06:03:18 PM) persia: sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
(06:03:26 PM) sistpoty: geser: seems it uses a.u.c (instead of a mirror)
(06:03:41 PM) sebner: sistpoty: Intrepid Release Shedule. Last edited by martin pitt
(06:03:57 PM) james_w: sebner: there's a load of candidates SRUs for Hardy in the mean time.
(06:04:00 PM) sebner: persia: ??
(06:04:13 PM) sebner: james_w: nono. school for me. My last challenge =)
(06:04:24 PM) sebner: maybe next weekend