20080709
Log
UTC
18:04 MootBot Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is heno. 18:04 MootBot Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] 18:04 heno [TOPIC]: Alpha 2 testing this week 18:04 MootBot New Topic: : Alpha 2 testing this week 18:04 heno being an early alpha testing will be light 18:05 heno sbeattie: do you know how far along the images are? 18:05 davmor2 heno: beings as live still doesn't work I think your right :) 18:05 heno slangasek: ^ ? * stgraber is sort of around 18:05 slangasek desktop images are still on the edge of being usable for alpha2; there's nothing there to be tested yet 18:05 heno ok, thanks 18:06 slangasek cjwatson is actively working on the ubiquity problems, and we also have to cope with the fact that recommends-by-default has made the ubuntu desktop image 80MB oversized - and kubuntu 200MB oversized :) 18:06 heno heh 18:06 sbeattie ouch 18:06 davmor2 heno: it's true :) 18:06 ogra people should use DVDRW for testing anyway :) 18:06 ogra saver the environment ... 18:06 ogra *save 18:07 heno or usb thumb drives 18:07 ogra yeh 18:07 ogra +a 18:08 heno so we'll test alternatives and desktops if they become available 18:08 heno [TOPIC]: Package status prototype - feedback welcome 18:08 MootBot New Topic: : Package status prototype - feedback welcome 18:08 davmor2 heno: is this for release next thursday then? 18:08 heno http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html 18:08 MootBot LINK received: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html 18:09 heno davmor2: this thursday I think 18:09 davmor2 might run out of testing time then :/ 18:09 davmor2 :-/ 18:10 heno davmor2: right, but we should just boot test them all 18:10 heno and if there are no live CDs that makes it easier 18:10 davmor2 I tried a live today it failed dismally 18:11 ara but are the images already available? 18:11 afflux hi! is it just me or do the alpha 2 images miss on the iso testing tracker? (are they even supposed to appear there?) 18:11 heno I'm guessing we'll release alpha 2 without lives 18:12 afflux (sorry if you discussed that earlier, I missed the start) 18:12 heno the alternates should be posted 18:12 heno slangasek: ^ agree? 18:12 slangasek I think so, yes 18:13 davmor2 the charts look great by the way. Will they be automated? 18:13 sbeattie I see live cds on cdimages, I suspect they just don't work. 18:13 heno sbeattie: can you update the tracker after the meeting? 18:13 heno sbeattie: let me know if you need a hand 18:13 sbeattie heno: yes, will do, can you action it? 18:13 slangasek fwiw, nvidia-glx-new is uninstallable on the alternates because of the X changes, so that's a bug to highlight for testers I think 18:13 LaserJock Leann's, pkg-stats pages are awesome! 18:14 heno [ACTION]: sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2 18:14 MootBot ACTION received: : sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2 18:14 LaserJock ogasawara: great work! 18:14 heno indeed! 18:14 davmor2 slangasek: noted 18:14 heno everyone check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html 18:15 LaserJock the one thing that struck me though 18:15 heno bdmurray made the graphs 18:15 LaserJock was that it is just bug "stuff" 18:15 LaserJock wereas I'm sure developers/bug workers would probably like to see some information on the package itself 18:15 afflux yup, looks cool. (though I thought we already had that kind of statistics, but I can't remember where...) 18:16 bdmurray afflux: they aren't as detailed as this 18:16 heno LaserJock: right, we'd love to get suggestions for that 18:16 afflux I see 18:17 LaserJock heno: at least links to Ubuntu/Debian changelogs, Ubuntu/Debian versions, links to package LP page and Debian PTS/BTS pages 18:17 heno Development and Testing: should be a section separate from Bugs Info and have more items 18:18 heno let's create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/PackageStatusPages/Feedback and add such items there 18:18 ogasawara that'd be great. I'll try to knock out as many items as I can before the sprint next week 18:19 heno how much of that overlaps with the LP package pages though? 18:19 LaserJock heno: very little 18:19 heno cool, we would like to add features not already on LP 18:19 LaserJock some of the info you can get from the LP page, but you have to dig around 18:19 heno and possibly later get them implemented there 18:19 davmor2 heno: if the is an overlap you could just link to the lp page for the package 18:19 LaserJock but for sure LP doesn't have any of the Debian info 18:20 heno ok 18:20 sbeattie Isn't some of this also aggregation of multiple packages in LP? e.g. "gnome" and "kde" will cover quite a few, no? 18:20 heno yeah, this page should very much be tailored fot the audience: Ubuntu QA and dev 18:21 heno ogasawara: will you start that page and collect the ideas? 18:21 ogasawara heno: yup 18:21 sbeattie do we want breakdowns by release? 18:21 LaserJock sbeattie: yeah, both types of pages would be useful 18:21 heno LaserJock: can you look over hat afterwards and add you thoughts? 18:21 LaserJock heno: sure 18:22 heno sbeattie: I'd like to have the option of historical look-back later too 18:22 heno see the weekly graphs from 6 months ago, say 18:22 heno sbeattie: are you thinking more of Hardy vs. Intrepid? 18:23 heno so we can follow the LTS point releases, say? 18:23 sbeattie yes, that too. historical comparisons are useful as well. 18:24 LaserJock well, it would be nice to see if a particular releast/version is really getting a lot of bugs 18:25 heno if anyone has further feedback please add it to the wiki 18:25 heno [TOPIC]: Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC 18:25 MootBot New Topic: : Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC 18:26 davmor2 +1 18:27 LaserJock 14.00 UTC might allow some AU people to attend 18:27 heno we'll have both a skype box with decent sound and a conference phone in the room 18:27 heno LaserJock: will that be difficult for you? * stgraber is afk now 18:27 heno you are US west coast, right? 18:28 LaserJock not impossible for sure 18:28 cgregan heno: I have the skype system all set here, and there is a teleconference install going on in the main conf room here as well 18:28 LaserJock I think that's 7am local 18:28 heno cgregan: excellent! 18:28 heno how many people can be joined on a skype conference? 18:29 sbeattie LaserJock: would 1400 UTC also let Persia attend? 18:29 heno if we use that we don't need to distribute phone umbers and conf codes 18:29 LaserJock sbeattie: perhaps so 18:29 heno persia will be in Lexington 18:29 LaserJock I can't say for sure 18:29 LaserJock ah 18:30 heno I assume 18:30 sbeattie heno: just realized that. 18:30 cgregan heno: I don't know. Our test yesterday was my first skype experience 18:30 heno as will cgregan and ogasawara 18:30 heno I'm sure google will tell us 18:30 davmor2 cgregan: noob ;) 18:31 afflux why not use mumble, it is opensource :P 18:31 heno looks like 5 * cgregan adds a dollar to his "shrine to the internet" 18:31 davmor2 use ekiga it on the desktop already :) 18:31 heno or openwengo? 18:31 cgregan davmor2: :-) 18:31 afflux IIRC skype has some limitation about 5-8 people in one conference call 18:31 heno I had issues with ekiga * afflux too 18:32 heno but perhaps that was just me 18:33 cgregan davmor2 and I have used audio only with success * persia peers out from an insomaniacal state and wonders which 14:00 18:34 afflux ekiga crashes on account setup for me :( 18:34 davmor2 :) It was quite a good connection too :) 18:34 heno persia: UTC during the sprint week 18:34 heno cgregan: can we go through testing that between us? 18:35 cgregan heno: sure 18:35 heno if it works we'll use ekiga, if not phone 18:35 persia Wednesday? 18:35 heno persia: yes 18:36 davmor2 heno: so that 15:00 uk time 18:36 persia Ah. I've a standing meeting that day and time, and an additional conflict next week from 13:00 - 18:00 or so. 18:36 heno davmor2: right 18:36 davmor2 okay 18:37 heno persia: that time block will be tough to work around for us 18:37 persia heno: No worries. I'll read the minutes. 18:37 heno but we'll be available the whole week by phone/skype 18:38 heno ok, let's go with that time then 18:38 heno we'll monitor IRC as well 18:38 heno [TOPIC]: Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock) 18:38 MootBot New Topic: : Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock) 18:38 LaserJock ok, so a few things 18:39 LaserJock I wrote up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/UbuntuQA 18:39 LaserJock which is hopefully a more thorough presentation of what I'm doing 18:39 heno cool, thanks 18:39 davmor2 I got to go now I'll catch up after 18:39 LaserJock and so far the team has 7 members (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa/+members) 18:40 LaserJock and 4 bzr branches represting 4 different projects 18:40 LaserJock I've been talking with lots of people 18:41 LaserJock and trying to look at some QA needs around the community 18:42 LaserJock so I think we're off to a good start 18:42 LaserJock are there any questions about the wiki page? 18:42 bdmurray what is a "relevant QA team"? 18:43 LaserJock bugsquad, ubuntu-testing, ubuntu-dev, etc. 18:45 LaserJock so I'd like to start pushing people towards the mailing list and doing some announcement/PR soon 18:46 heno hm, i have to reboot, brb 18:46 sbeattie LaserJock: nice, I think I'm mostly sold. 18:47 LaserJock I'm sure there could be some refining around specifics, but hopefully it's good enough to get going 18:47 sbeattie I would like to push a little bit on how we credit/reward people doing various elements of QA work. 18:47 heno ... sorry about that 18:47 LaserJock heno: np 18:47 LaserJock sbeattie: yeah, that's something I think we'll have to work on some 18:48 LaserJock I don't have any particularlly elegant propsals for that other than recognizing work that people are doing 18:48 sbeattie I don't particularly have any good ideas (other than I want to be a level 10 QA Warlock) 18:48 LaserJock having a team that's seeing what's going on around the QA universe, IMO, lends itself more to giving each other credit 18:49 LaserJock for instance, ogasawara's work on that bug page is amazing 18:49 LaserJock and I might not have noticed that if I hadn't been talking with her already and comming to the meeting, etc. 18:51 sbeattie Sure, I think it's great, too, but generating webpages like is more interesting work than some of the grunt work the various QA teams do. 18:51 bryce it might be interesting to ask existing volunteer triagers about what motivates them, and then seek ways to maximize that (or minimize inhibitors) 18:52 sbeattie bryce: good idea 18:52 LaserJock bryce: yeah, totally 18:52 heno the people who have recently stepped up to organise bug days would be good candidates here 18:53 LaserJock yes 18:53 heno LaserJock: i appreciate that you have fleshed out the non-dev aspects a bit more 18:53 heno and we can probably extend that further still 18:53 LaserJock heno: yeah, I'm sorry that that came out too much last time. I'm come from a dev background and I'm afraid it showed 18:54 LaserJock heno: yeah 18:54 heno LaserJock: how do you see this team participating in the upcoming global bug jam for example 18:55 LaserJock heno: well, hopefully that would be something that the Ubuntu QA would help organize and participate in 18:55 heno that has a triage focus, but we can also benefit from dev involvement 18:55 cgregan heno: LoCo maryland has asked me to do a talk on QA process for the Jam. 18:56 LaserJock perhaps generating useful documentation and task-lists if needed 18:56 cgregan We could do something like that but in the wiki or elsewhere...for a larger audience 18:57 heno LaserJock: where would you like feedback on that writeup, in a comments section on the page, on an ML thread? 18:57 LaserJock perhaps a thread on ubuntu-qa would be good, to get broader discussion 18:57 heno ok, will you post and we can comment? 18:58 heno and we'll talk about it at next week's meeting 18:58 LaserJock ok 18:58 LaserJock so I'm basically going to move forward with this this week 18:58 heno perhaps we should propose some topics for that btw 18:58 LaserJock and we can refine as we go 18:59 LaserJock but I think we have consensus that we should move forward 18:59 heno LaserJock: 'move forward' means announce more broadly, invite people to join, etc? 18:59 LaserJock yes 19:00 LaserJock I think the only real possible sticking point is the LP team name, and I'm confident that I/we can handle that 19:00 heno there was actually an ubuntu-qa name before 19:00 heno which was in effect bug-control 19:01 heno and we changed the name to reduce confusion 19:01 LaserJock yep 19:01 heno but what we are talking about now fits the name better 19:01 LaserJock I agree 19:02 heno with the more inclusive view, I'm happy with the LP name 19:02 LaserJock I'm up for trolling around the wiki and making appropriate changes 19:02 LaserJock for non-trivial ones I'd email ubuntu-qa for discussion to make sure 19:02 heno we should merge the LP team with the existing wiki/IRC/ML based team though 19:03 LaserJock I basically agree 19:03 ara heno: which irc channel? 19:03 heno so we should stick to this meeting time, use the ML 19:03 LaserJock I'm working on the IRC channel right now 19:03 ara is there already a #ubuntu-qa ?? 19:03 heno and probably set up #ubuntu-qa 19:03 ara LaserJock: ok 19:03 LaserJock apparently #ubuntu-qa is for the Qatar LoCo team 19:04 LaserJock the IRC ops suggested #ubuntu-quality for lack of a better name 19:04 heno nand: I'm also wondering if it's time to set up #ubuntu-brainstorm ? 19:04 LaserJock any other suggestions? 19:04 sbeattie LaserJock: we all have to move to Qatar? 19:04 LaserJock sbeattie: hehe, yeah 19:04 ara :D 19:05 LaserJock and apparently anything #ubuntu-qa-* is owned by them as well 19:05 LaserJock so we can't do #ubuntu-qa-team or such 19:05 heno as it doesn't fit very well in #ubuntu-testing anymore 19:06 heno -quality sounds fine 19:06 LaserJock it's not quite a clear, IMO, but I think it's probably the best we can do 19:07 LaserJock I guess we could always ask Qatar to rename itself :-) 19:07 bdmurray qc? 19:07 heno I wonder how active that chan is? 19:07 LaserJock heno: it's not at all 19:08 LaserJock there wasn't anybody in there when I went in 19:08 ara bdmurray: i prefer -quality than -qc 19:08 LaserJock I think the meaning of QA is more generally known than QC 19:08 LaserJock I'm not sure that people would know what ubuntu-qc was 19:09 ara LaserJock: i agree 19:09 cgregan Is there a standard for "distro-group" or could it be qa-ubuntu? qa-canonical? 19:09 LaserJock cgregan: well, I think generally they need to be *buntu-* 19:09 LaserJock https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ChannelNaming 19:10 heno is there even a Qatar team? The ubuntu-qa ML is us 19:10 ara "What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet." 19:10 LaserJock heno: it apparently doesn't matter if the team exists or is active. It's a blocked namespace 19:11 bdmurray -qat? where t is for team? 19:11 sbeattie cgregan: I particularly think we don't want *canonical*, as we want to make sure that it's clear that the intent is for this effort to not be exclusive to canonical employees. 19:11 LaserJock I think #ubuntu-quality is probably our best bet 19:11 bdmurray That's also a great scrabble word 19:11 cgregan sbeattie: I know...just an example of layout not of content 19:11 heno Ubuntu Qatar could just be very interested in quality and happen to not live in Qatar 19:12 LaserJock lol 19:12 heno let's go with #ubuntu-quality but set the topic in #ubuntu-qa to make accidental visitors aware of that 19:13 heno if a Qatar team turns up and becomes active they can change the topic to something more appropriate 19:14 LaserJock agreed 19:14 LaserJock I'll set it up 19:14 ara ok 19:14 heno any other topics? 19:16 heno ok, let's wrap up 19:16 heno #endmeeting 19:16 MootBot Meeting finished at 13:17.
MeetingLogs/QATeam/20080709 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:14 by localhost)