20070731

This is the 2nd meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 15:00 UTC and finishing at 16:00 UTC.

Agenda

Please take responsibility for an item if you are adding it, thus we can turn to you when the item crops up. Smile :)

Items we will be discussing:

  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting.

  • Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.

  • Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

  • Introductions: 4 people introduced themselves.
  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting:
    • mathiaz didn't sent anything to UWN.

      ACTION: mathiaz will send a modified version of the Ubuntu Server Team announcement to get it published in the UWN.

    • soren didn't sent an email to ubuntu-server to ask for more widespread testing. He is waiting for the upload of new e-box packages.
    • dendrobates didn't create the ldap-auth-client test plan, as other issues keep cropping up.

      ACTION: dendrobates will create a test plan for ldap-auth-client.

  • Triager section review:
    • mysql bugs have been looked at and most of them are triaged.
    • mathiaz proposed to tackle samba bugs. The goal is to triage bugs in NEW,UNCONFIRMED up to number 90 000.

      ACTION: mathiaz will update the roadmap.

  • Packager section review:
  • Tester section review:

    • AppArmor testing: tarvid offered to do some profile testing.

      ACTION: mathiaz will contact tarvid to coordinate this effort.

  • Documentor section review:

    • ACTION: dendrobates will update the wiki pages to make it easier to contribute documentation.

    • Drupal guide: tarvid proposed to write an how-to about setting up Drupal on Ubuntu.

      ACTION: tarvid will start an how-to on wiki.ubuntu.com.

  • Developper section review:

    • AppArmor: a new version of the kernel module should be integrated into the Ubuntu kernel. The target is to get the new kernel module merged before FeatureFreeze. That requires a large and invasive patch to the kernel plus a new version of the module in linux-ubuntu-modules. Once this is done, the user space part can be updated. The version would be the latest from upstream.

    • E-box: soren said that the ldap-module was waiting for review. Once it's been accepted, samba, ca, dns, dhcp and openvpn modules can be uploaded too.
    • RAID and LVM Installation: ivoks asked about this goal. mathiaz explained that this project is about writing recipes for the installer to support RAID+LVM partitioning automatically.

      ACTION: ivoks will have look at it and see if he can do it.

    • dehs: mathiaz looked into the code and wants to talk about it with pitti.
    • ldap-auth-client: dendrobates has almost finished repackaging libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap. auth-client-config needs more discussion to conform to the Debian policy.

      ACTION: dendrobates and jdstrand should discuss auth-client-config packaging issues.

  • Other Business.
    • tarvid has some interest to bring up a java server in Ubuntu. Some further discussion is required on the mailing list or in #ubuntu-server.

The next meeting will be on Tuesday, August the 14th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

IRC LOGS

TZ UTC-4 

(10:59:40 AM) dendrobates: soren will be late today, doing wedding stuff.
(11:00:32 AM) dendrobates: Do we have any new people here today, that would like to introduce themselves?
(11:01:02 AM) ivoks: i'm new in the way 'never been on meeting before :)'
(11:01:11 AM) tarvid: me too
(11:01:23 AM) dendrobates: that's new enough.
(11:01:24 AM) ***asisak as well, he has never been on a server team meeting before
(11:01:45 AM) ivoks: ok, shall we introduce our selfs then?
(11:01:50 AM) keescook: go for it.  :)
(11:01:57 AM) nealmcb: Why don't you give us a sentence about you and your interest in the team
(11:02:35 AM) soren: I'm here now.
(11:02:49 AM) ivoks: my name is Ante Karamatic, and I've been around Ubuntu since it started, MOTU for two years, running Ubuntu related bussines, 10 years of Debian/Ubuntu experience, RHCE :) enough? :)
(11:03:03 AM) Hobbsee: ivoks: no.
(11:03:08 AM) Hobbsee: :P
(11:03:14 AM) zul: ditto
(11:03:17 AM) keescook: hiya Hobbsee :)
(11:03:23 AM) Hobbsee: hey keescook!
(11:03:38 AM) tarvid: i am a dependent user of ubuntu server and thought attendance might serve my interests
(11:03:41 AM) dendrobates: zul: you are Ante Karamatic as well?
(11:03:47 AM) ivoks: Hobbsee: then, what else?
(11:03:50 AM) tarvid: at some point I may be able to contribute
(11:03:54 AM) zul: dendrobates: er no...im new as well :)
(11:04:27 AM) zul: but I can introduce myself as well
(11:04:35 AM) dendrobates: go ahead.
(11:04:36 AM) keescook: ivoks: have you gotten involved in Debian development, or are you strickly a long-time user?
(11:04:51 AM) keescook: if I could spell "strict", that is.
(11:04:56 AM) ivoks: keescook: never development, only use :/
(11:05:17 AM) zul: my name is Chuck Short, i been around Ubuntu since breezy, I am on the kernel team, motu team, running ubuntu for work and I feed the xen monster
(11:05:17 AM) keescook: ivoks: cool; I had been the same before getting into Ubuntu devel work.  :)
(11:05:29 AM) keescook: \o/ xen
(11:06:07 AM) tarvid: i have been running a linux web servers for 12 years this month
(11:06:34 AM) tarvid: my biggest concern at this point is providing a sane, secure web hosting environment for Drupal
(11:07:08 AM) dendrobates: drupal = content management, correct?
(11:07:17 AM) zul: keescook: meh :)
(11:07:33 AM) tarvid: yes, we are a small bunch and CMS is at the root of almost all we do on the web server
(11:07:36 AM) keescook: dendrobates: correct
(11:07:55 AM) nealmcb: agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
(11:08:19 AM) keescook: tarvid: have you done drupal security updates before?  the drupal package in ubuntu could use a bit of attention.
(11:08:30 AM) asisak is now known as coNP
(11:08:46 AM) ICU: well i'm new too. my name is jens and im working for a german isp. we use sevel debian and ubuntu servers (~200) and i'm hear cause i hope to see a future in ubuntu server. currently i'm a bit disappointed with it.
(11:08:50 AM) tarvid: i never use the drupal package. all my installs are user space installs
(11:08:54 AM) coNP is now known as asisak
(11:09:28 AM) tarvid: in fact a lot of the big php packages in ubuntu are to be avoided
(11:09:39 AM) tarvid: at least in a shared environment
(11:09:55 AM) dendrobates: not much on the agenda, but lets start going through the action points.
(11:10:35 AM) dendrobates: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070717 marked with action in bold.
(11:11:00 AM) mathiaz: I've haven't sent any thing for UWN.
(11:12:11 AM) soren: Hmm... I was going to post a link to the e-mail I sent to ubuntu-server about eBox, but I can't seem to find it..
(11:12:23 AM) soren: Did I not send it?
(11:12:36 AM) ivoks: or you sent it a minute ago... ;)
(11:12:41 AM) mathiaz: soren: I dont' think so
(11:12:56 AM) soren: Figures.
(11:13:09 AM) soren: Well, the bug reports have been coming in, so someone has noticed anyway.
(11:13:12 AM) soren: :)
(11:14:02 AM) mathiaz: I've sent the minutes to the mailing list
(11:14:07 AM) mathiaz: and I'll do it again.
(11:14:51 AM) ***soren hugs mathiaz
(11:14:53 AM) soren: \o/
(11:15:05 AM) dendrobates: I did not create the ldap-auth-client test plan, other issues keep cropping up with this initiative.
(11:15:14 AM) soren: heh.. :)
(11:15:21 AM) dendrobates: I will try to work on it this week.
(11:15:53 AM) dendrobates: lets move on. The road map.
(11:15:54 AM) tarvid: one thing I could do is a howto on running drupal on Feisty in user space
(11:16:34 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: excellent. Try to get in touch with the doc team also.
(11:16:36 AM) dendrobates: lets move throught he road map quickly, so we can have some general discussion.
(11:17:04 AM) ivoks: mysql bugs are looking nice... only 4 untriagged
(11:17:10 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: try to start a wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com
(11:17:28 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: once it's in a better state, it could be moved to help.ubuntu.com/community
(11:17:45 AM) mathiaz: the mysql bugs are almost all triagged
(11:17:54 AM) mathiaz: so I think we can move on to the next package.....
(11:17:55 AM) mathiaz: ... samba
(11:18:16 AM) ivoks: i agree, postfix and gang (dovecot) don't have too many untriagged bugs
(11:18:27 AM) ivoks: (iirc)
(11:18:45 AM) lamont: ivoks: sounds right on postfix
(11:18:58 AM) soren: And dovecot, too.
(11:19:00 AM) mathiaz: ivoks: correct. ScottK looks after the postfix bugs.
(11:19:20 AM) mathiaz: so samba is the one that has the most bugs.
(11:19:37 AM) mathiaz: let's try to triagge them, starting with the oldest.
(11:19:50 AM) coNP is now known as asisak
(11:20:10 AM) dendrobates is now known as dendrobate1
(11:20:23 AM) ivoks: uff, lots of them :/
(11:20:34 AM) dendrobate1 is now known as dendrobates
(11:21:37 AM) tarvid: i have a problem here, everything I need "just works", if it didn't I would squeal like a stuck pig
(11:21:38 AM) mathiaz: there are 61 bugs in New,Unconfirmed
(11:22:23 AM) mathiaz: let's try to triagge all the bugs up to 90 000
(11:22:25 AM) keescook: tarvid: cool; what stuff are you currently using?
(11:22:52 AM) tarvid: my web server runs a minimal LAMP with esmtp for outgoing mail
(11:23:13 AM) tarvid: my local servers run a bit more such as samba
(11:23:49 AM) mathiaz: I'll update the roadmap with this new task.
(11:25:19 AM) tarvid: #105457 - I had this problem but was running VHCS2 at the time, after canning VHCS2 and going back to simple user accounts all is well
(11:25:52 AM) dendrobates: What is the status of the watch files?
(11:26:04 AM) fernando: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FernandoRibeiroSilva#head-2f73be690626808a6cbe933cb58d13c7e6126dc7
(11:26:34 AM) dendrobates: fernando: Thanks
(11:27:09 AM) fernando: with postfix scottK talk with Lamont and have this advise: My advice is spend your effort on another package. Lamont keeps a local Postfix mirror and really doesn't need a watch file.
(11:27:27 AM) fernando: reported on https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/postfix/+bug/129316
(11:27:27 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 129316 in postfix "New watch file" [Undecided,New]
(11:27:41 AM) fernando: dendrobates: welcome
(11:28:01 AM) dendrobates: are there any other updates?
(11:28:03 AM) nealmcb: fernando: what does "working" mean in your wiki page - that the watch file is working, or that you are working on getting a watch file defined for the package
(11:28:05 AM) tarvid: i found postfix to require two hours a day, an order of magnitude greater than any other internal effort
(11:28:20 AM) tarvid: all having to do with spam and DOD/DDOS
(11:28:57 AM) dendrobates: I have been experiencing scope creep with the ldap-auth-client initiative.
(11:29:17 AM) fernando: nealmcb: working mean the actual package have a working watch file
(11:30:05 AM) dendrobates: As I learn more about the way things are done in debian,  I need to modify new packages to comply with the rules.
(11:30:11 AM) ivoks: umm... could we follow agenda and leave rest of the stuff for the end?
(11:30:57 AM) dendrobates: Yes, we are trying to get through this, to allow more time for discussion.
(11:31:24 AM) dendrobates: Testing, any thing new?
(11:31:43 AM) tarvid: #71884 - collateral damage of LTS, I am not inclined to load a system with older software to test something like this
(11:32:28 AM) mathiaz: bug 71884
(11:32:28 AM) nealmcb: bug 71884
(11:32:29 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 71884 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "fails to install" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71884
(11:32:32 AM) nealmcb: :-)
(11:33:00 AM) mathiaz: nothing to report on testing
(11:33:31 AM) dendrobates: we can use vmware or xen to test older releases.
(11:33:46 AM) dendrobates: Documentation?
(11:34:09 AM) mathiaz: it seem that someone wants to write a guide for Drupal
(11:34:21 AM) mathiaz: discusses earlier.
(11:34:27 AM) tarvid: that's me
(11:34:42 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: can we add this to the roadmap ?
(11:34:52 AM) dendrobates: mathiaz: I will take a stab at updating the wiki pages, to make it easier to contribute documentation.
(11:34:55 AM) tarvid: we did a fairly careful dummy package for the base install
(11:34:57 AM) tarvid: yes
(11:35:17 AM) tarvid: as part of a bad day scenario
(11:35:25 AM) dendrobates: Ok, development.
(11:35:27 AM) mathiaz: you said you were not using the drupal package shipped with ubuntu, right ?
(11:35:34 AM) tarvid: i.e. what would it take to get back up on a new server
(11:35:41 AM) tarvid: that is correct
(11:35:50 AM) tarvid: almost pointless, moodle too
(11:35:56 AM) mathiaz: would the guide cover the usage of the package shipped by ubuntu ?
(11:36:17 AM) tarvid: life is so bad with the package it is hard to contemplate doing that
(11:36:44 AM) mathiaz: is there any point in trying to fix the package in ubuntu ?
(11:36:52 AM) mathiaz: I guess it is in universe
(11:37:22 AM) tarvid: if i were a packager, that would make sense, i'm still trying to understand what is required of life with Drupal
(11:37:55 AM) tarvid: there are similar issues in the java world, netbeans, jdk etc
(11:38:22 AM) mathiaz: are you interested into doing some packaging work on Drupal ?
(11:38:33 AM) nealmcb: tarvid: I think it would be useful to have tarvid's guide even if it doesn't use the package.  I've also thought for some of those big php packages that a source install is easier to control
(11:38:38 AM) tarvid: i'd have to learn how
(11:39:20 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: there are plenty of ressource - I can give some help if you want.
(11:39:25 AM) dendrobates: mathiaz: lets continue the end of the development discussion.  I want to get updates on our current initiatives.
(11:39:32 AM) nealmcb: and one of my colleagues is about to do a drupal install, so I'm very interested :-)
(11:39:35 AM) tarvid: that sounds like a good offer
(11:39:41 AM) mathiaz: dendrobates: ok.
(11:39:49 AM) dendrobates: AppArmor status?
(11:39:53 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: we should continue the discussion in ubuntu-server later
(11:40:03 AM) tarvid: good enough
(11:40:04 AM) mathiaz: apparmor is shipped by default on all cds.
(11:40:22 AM) mathiaz: and we've received some profile submission.
(11:40:44 AM) mathiaz: we're trying to get the latest upstream version of the kernel module into our kernel.
(11:40:59 AM) mathiaz: and then we'll be able to update all the user space stuff.
(11:41:18 AM) mathiaz: I hope we'll get the new kernel integrated before featurefreeze
(11:41:25 AM) mathiaz: that's all
(11:41:33 AM) ivoks: nice
(11:41:45 AM) nealmcb: which kernel version?
(11:41:54 AM) mathiaz: the latest kernel module
(11:41:58 AM) ivoks: kernel module version, not kernel
(11:42:03 AM) mathiaz: for the gutsy kernel
(11:42:15 AM) mathiaz: we'll grab the latest version of upstream.
(11:42:37 AM) mathiaz: (upstream AppArmor)
(11:43:16 AM) ***nealmcb nods
(11:43:34 AM) dendrobates: ebox status?
(11:43:35 AM) lamont: fernando: I'm half inclined to close 129316 as wontfix, just because it promotes people sending me the flood of "there's a new version" bugs when I'm busy packaging the new version...
(11:43:36 AM) tarvid: I can do some AppArmor testing on our sandbox. One of my security measures to to disable shell for all users who have to ask for a window of shell capability
(11:43:44 AM) ***lamont doesn't use watch files on any of his packages - he reads the mailing lists
(11:44:13 AM) soren: eBox status: I have the base ldap-module waiting for review. That is blocking the samba module (which also isn't done yet). I'm going to upload ebox-ca, ebox-dns, ebox-dhcp, ebox-openvpn later today, probably. Possibly also ebox-printers.
(11:44:30 AM) mathiaz: tarvid: ok. I'll get in touch with you later to see how we could organise some testing.
(11:44:47 AM) lamont: fernando: that and isc.org is not the canonical mirror for it...
(11:44:54 AM) soren: Ah, now I remember why I didn't send out the announcement... :)
(11:45:00 AM) nealmcb: bug 129316
(11:45:02 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 129316 in postfix "New watch file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129316
(11:45:40 AM) dendrobates: soren: ebox-ntp installed, with some errors, I captured them, but thought you might have a new version to upload.
(11:46:36 AM) ivoks: what's the story with RAID/LVM?
(11:47:00 AM) soren: dendrobates: Just file a bug about it. That'd be nice.
(11:47:09 AM) fernando: lamont: canonical mirror not is listed on postfix download page. the www.postfix.org is using a RR system and don't have matching contents
(11:47:17 AM) mathiaz: ivoks: it's about providing recipe for the installer partitioner
(11:47:34 AM) ivoks: ok, i do that almost daily :)
(11:47:40 AM) mathiaz: ivoks: we don't support automatic RAID+LVM as a guided install.
(11:47:47 AM) ivoks: so, i could write something up... for wiki
(11:47:52 AM) mathiaz: so it would be nice to have this option at install time.
(11:47:53 AM) ivoks: or that :)
(11:48:12 AM) mathiaz: it requires to write some recipe for the installer.
(11:48:16 AM) ivoks: guided raid+lvm... i will take a look at that in next couple of days and let you know if i could do it
(11:48:30 AM) mathiaz: ivoks: excellent.
(11:49:29 AM) dendrobates: mathiaz: the dehs goal?
(11:49:42 AM) mathiaz: I've looked at dehs.
(11:49:57 AM) mathiaz: I'll discuss it with pitti.
(11:50:09 AM) mathiaz: dehs is the reason behind the watch file update.
(11:50:23 AM) lamont: fernando: ah, ok
(11:50:47 AM) mathiaz: nothing else to report about dehs
(11:51:05 AM) ***lamont must run.
(11:51:25 AM) dendrobates: ldap-auth-client: I need to discuss splitting out the pam parts and nss parts of auth-client-config due to debian policy.
(11:52:23 AM) dendrobates: we also need to review conf file ownership and make sure we are conforming to policy.
(11:52:51 AM) dendrobates: I meant to say I need to discuss with jdstrand.
(11:53:58 AM) dendrobates: I am almost done ,making changes to libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap.
(11:54:09 AM) dendrobates: ok, other business?
(11:54:33 AM) tarvid: i have an interest in bringing up a java server in ubuntu
(11:55:20 AM) tarvid: jsp doesn't seem to mix well with php
(11:56:06 AM) dendrobates: tarvid: are you thinking of a servlet container like tomcat?
(11:56:31 AM) tarvid: i brought up tomcat once but it did not play nice with LAMP but yes that is the idea
(11:57:12 AM) tarvid: i have a client that would benefit from some sort of BI structure
(11:57:20 AM) nealmcb: BI?
(11:57:25 AM) tarvid: mondrian e/g/
(11:57:33 AM) tarvid: Business Intelligence
(11:57:47 AM) tarvid: overblown OLAP
(11:57:54 AM) dendrobates: We should move this discussion to #ubuntu-server, as our time is up.
(11:58:05 AM) tarvid: thank you all
(11:58:41 AM) dendrobates: bye all.
(11:58:52 AM) mathiaz: thanks all. bye.
(11:59:06 AM) mathiaz: oh - next meeting.
(11:59:08 AM) ***asisak says goodbye to everyone
(11:59:10 AM) ivoks: :)
(11:59:14 AM) mathiaz: in two weeks.
(11:59:28 AM) mathiaz: same time, same place.

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