This is the 8th meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 15:00 UTC and finishing at 15:57 UTC


  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
  • Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.

  • Lessons learned from gutsy about Xen - [ChuckShort]

  • Agree on next meeting date and time.


Review previous meeting ACTION points

soren plans to send an email to debian-devel to discuss the MTA change.

State of Xen in Ubuntu

zul raised the topic of Xen in Ubuntu. Support for Xen in Gutsy is not as good as in Feisty, mainly due to lack of testing. mathiaz confirmed that there was a discussion about virtualization scheduled for UDS, also it may not be about xen only. mathiaz suggested to create a wiki page to discuss and track what should be done for Hardy.

avatar_ mentioned the #ubuntu-xen channel as a place where people interested in xen hang out. However there isn't any mailing list specific to xen. zul thought about creating a Xen team. mathiaz agreed it would be a good idea in the mid-term, but hardy should be focused on first.

ACTION: zul will create a wiki page XenSupportInHardy to describe what is needed for xen.

Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap


mathiaz reminded that the archive for hardy has been setup and is opened for upload. That means that the merge process has started. Forwarding relevant patches to Debian is encouraged to minimize the deltas.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging describes tags that should be used when forwarding patches to Debian BTS.


Server guide review

sommer keeps working on the Server Guide review.

Tagging bugs for documentation update

ScottK mentioned a bug that he fixed in Courrier which requires a documentation update. mathiaz asked if there was a way to track bugs that requires documentation updates. It seems that there isn't such a process.

ACTION: mathiaz will send a email to ubuntu-doc about this issue, using ScottK courrier bug as an example.

Update of factoids

nealmcb is still working on adding and updating the factoids.

Upcoming Ubuntu Developer Summit

mathiaz reminded that UDS will take place next week in Boston. A list of blueprints that will be discussed can be found here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server.

The summit will be preceded by FOSScamp during the weekend: http://www.fosscamp.org/.

Next meeting

The next meeting will be hold on Tuesday, November the 6th, at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.


Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[16:01:51] <mathiaz> Short agenda for today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02:40] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:02:58] <mathiaz> Last meeting notes are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071009
[16:03:18] <soren> There weren't any?
[16:03:23] <soren> Action points, that is.
[16:03:46] <mathiaz> soren: there were two small ones for me.
[16:03:52] <mathiaz> soren: I did them IIRC
[16:04:11] <soren> mathiaz: Oh, you're right.
[16:04:18] <soren> Something about e-mail fridge-devel to sort something out?
[16:04:22] <mathiaz> soren: when do you think you'll start the mta debate on debian-devel ?
[16:04:47] <soren> mathiaz: Tomorrow. I meant to do it today, but I got tied up.
[16:06:24] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Lessons learned from gutsy about Xen
[16:06:30] <mathiaz> zul: ^^
[16:06:45] <zul> on the phone just a sec
[16:07:21] <mathiaz> ok.. So while waiting, anyone upgrade their server to gutsy ?
[16:07:29] <zul> ok im back
[16:07:32] <zul> sorry
[16:08:03] <zul> ok basically xen in gutsy was a mess compared to feisty and Im looking for help this time around
[16:08:33] <mathiaz> zul: what's the current state of xen in gutsy ?
[16:08:54] <zul> mathiaz: people were having problems loading their domUs and other problems
[16:09:00] <ScottK> mathiaz: I upgraded one of mail mail servers around beta timeframe with no issues. I plan on doing production servers this weekend.
[16:09:33] <zul> i emailed a list of ideas for hardy to rick and we can go from their at uds
[16:09:35] <mathiaz> zul: is this because there wasn't enough testing done during gutsy development phase ?
[16:09:51] <mathiaz> zul: ok. Is there a spec registered about this ?
[16:09:58] <zul> mathiaz: true thats part of it
[16:10:10] <zul> mathiaz: not yet i have to talk to rick more probably
[16:10:22] <zul> there is a session a uds about this
[16:10:33] <mathiaz> zul: will you be at uds ?
[16:10:49] <zul> no I have sent my ideas to rick already ill be listening in though
[16:11:15] <nealmcb> zul: what sorts of suggestions do you have?
[16:11:16] <mathiaz> zul: ok. If there is a session scheduled, there is probably a blueprint associated with it.
[16:11:42] <mathiaz> zul: it may be worth creating the wiki page and add your ideas there.
[16:11:59] <zul> nealmcb: better tools for creating guests, not just me working on it
[16:12:01] <mathiaz> zul: explain what was wrong with gutsy and what should be done about it.
[16:12:34] <mathiaz> zul: are you the only one doing xen work/developpement in Ubuntu ?
[16:12:53] <zul> mathiaz: basically it was a switch in where were we getting the sources from and the lack of people testing ti
[16:12:57] <zul> mathiaz: yes i am
[16:13:55] <zul> so another set of eyes would be good, if it helps Ill send an email to the ubuntu-server ml
[16:14:05] <avatar_> zul: you'r not in #ubuntu-xen ?
[16:14:12] <mathiaz> zul: I think that's a good idea.
[16:14:51] <zul> avatar_: not regularily
[16:15:21] <zul> ok so I will send an email when I get home tonight
[16:15:31] <mathiaz> avatar_: is there a mailing list for ubuntu-xen ?
[16:15:40] <zul> no there isnt
[16:15:50] <avatar_> mathiaz: afaik just an irc channel
[16:16:44] <mathiaz> zul: ok. It seems that there isn't any spec for xen.
[16:17:08] <mathiaz> zul: could create a wiki page about XenSupportInHardy ?
[16:17:24] <zul> mathiaz: true, I can do that no problem
[16:17:35] <nealmcb> zul: what sorts of assistance would be most helpful for the xen effort - what skill sets?
[16:17:52] <zul> nealmcb: packaging testing documentation
[16:18:08] <zul> especially for amd64 and windows guests
[16:18:51] <mathiaz> zul: that would help a lot if you'd listed what is needed in the wiki page.
[16:19:06] <nealmcb> thanks for doing so much by yourself - sounds like we should be able to find folks with those skills....
[16:19:09] <zul> I could start an XenTeam wiki page as well
[16:19:32] <avatar_> i would like help testing, but amd64 or windows guests requires me to buy new hardware...
[16:19:34] <mathiaz> [ACTION] zul will create a wiki page XenSupportInHardy to describe what is needed for xen
[16:19:51] <zul> avatar_: ditto :)
[16:19:57] <mathiaz> zul: A team may be a good idea in mid-term.
[16:20:18] <mathiaz> zul: let's start by figuring out what needs to be done for hardy
[16:20:31] <zul> mathiaz: sure Ill get started on it tonight
[16:21:08] <zul> mathiaz: i have a rough idea in my head I just need to write it down
[16:21:10] <mathiaz> zul: once people will be interested in it, we could consider the creation of a team
[16:21:26] <penguim> +1
[16:21:27] <mathiaz> zul: excellent !
[16:22:01] <mathiaz> zul: meanwhile, I think you can use the ubuntu-server mailing list to discuss it.
[16:22:03] <nealmcb> what was the change in xen sources - from where to where?
[16:22:25] <zul> nealmcb: dom0 sources from redhat to novell
[16:22:39] <nealmcb> ty
[16:23:12] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:23:23] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:24:14] <mathiaz> As you may know, the hardy archive is now opened.
[16:24:24] <mathiaz> Which means that we're in merge phase.
[16:25:04] <soren> \o/ Merge-o-rama!
[16:25:22] <mathiaz> While doing this, it would be great to forward deltas to Debian via their BTS
[16:25:26] <mathiaz> using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
[16:25:36] <ScottK> As long as they are applicable.
[16:27:00] <mathiaz> sommer: how is the server guide review going ?
[16:27:37] <sommer> mathiaz: it's coming along... still working through the official docs
[16:28:09] <sommer> I also updated, some of the wiki pages I've contributed to, for Gutsy
[16:28:29] <sommer> at this point basically the ones listed on the Server Team RoadMap page
[16:28:38] <mathiaz> I've also noticed you've been working on a macro for the wiki to indicate which release is relevant for wiki pages.
[16:28:55] <mathiaz> sommer: Are they tagged in the wiki ?
[16:29:19] <mathiaz> sommer: May we could create a link to the list of page relevant to the ServerTeam category.
[16:30:01] <sommer> mathiaz: sounds like a good idea... they currently aren't tagged except for CategoryDocumentation
[16:30:55] <mathiaz> sommer: the idea being that we can point new contributors to the page when they show interest in server documentation.
[16:31:19] <sommer> should we post to the doc ml for additional help?
[16:31:50] <mathiaz> sommer: hum... I don't know.
[16:32:09] <ScottK> sommer: One documentation point you might look into while you are reviewing is that I got the fix for Bug #150067 uploaded late in the Gutsy process, but the resulting config file change isn't documented. It'd be useful if there was an appropriate place to put that.
[16:32:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150067 in courier "Courier 0.56 has broken SSL support" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150067
[16:32:54] <mathiaz> ScottK: is there a way to tag bugs fixed that need documentation update ?
[16:33:05] * ScottK has no idea.
[16:33:38] <ScottK> I'm only thinking about that one because I uploaded the fix and dealt with a bug filed today where the only problem was they didn't know about the setting.
[16:34:08] <sommer> there is a list of bugs pertaining to the official docs
[16:34:08] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. It's a general issue actually.
[16:34:29] <mathiaz> the mysql bug database has such a workflow.
[16:34:45] <mathiaz> you can see when fixes are committed, then documented.
[16:35:33] <mathiaz> It may be interesting to be able to mark bugs that need a documentation review (with an appropriate tag for example).
[16:35:55] <nealmcb> mathiaz: and then remove the tag when it is documented?
[16:36:06] <mathiaz> nealmcb: yes.
[16:36:48] <nealmcb> sounds useful - a link to a mysql example would be handy
[16:36:51] <mathiaz> Anyone has another example of such a situation ?
[16:37:39] <soren> I know I have one, but I forget what it is :)
[16:38:04] <sommer> the evms issue everyone seems to have?
[16:38:54] <sommer> or is that one documented somewhere? I just recall several questions about it.
[16:38:54] <mathiaz> sommer: I think that was put in the release notes.
[16:39:00] <sommer> ah
[16:39:07] <mathiaz> sommer: update-manager should take care of it.
[16:39:23] <mathiaz> sommer: but not everyone uses update-manager to upgrade to gutsy.
[16:40:10] <sommer> so if a bug requires documentation is the process to update the official docs, or a wiki page?
[16:40:32] <mathiaz> sommer: well - it depends where it needs to be fixed.
[16:40:46] <sommer> mathiaz: okay
[16:41:01] <mathiaz> sommer: if it's in the official documentation, I think that a new bug should be filed against the documentation package
[16:41:11] <mathiaz> sommer: otherwise, the wiki page should be updated.
[16:41:36] <mathiaz> This is usually what I do whith the AppArmor package and User guide.
[16:41:54] <sommer> cool sounds good to me
[16:41:57] <mathiaz> The problem is that most developper don't know which wiki page on help.u.c needs to be updated.
[16:42:07] <nealmcb> sending an example of the mysql workflow to the doc team might help - they may have similar ideas
[16:42:12] <mathiaz> I think this should be raised with the ubuntu-doc team.
[16:42:46] <mathiaz> I'll send an email about this.
[16:42:52] <nealmcb> cool
[16:43:03] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will send an email to ubuntu-doc about bugs and documentation update.
[16:43:21] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'll give your courrier bug as an example.
[16:43:37] <mathiaz> If someone else has another example, let me know.
[16:43:50] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what's the state with the factoids ?
[16:43:57] <ScottK> mathiaz: Thanks.
[16:45:51] <nealmcb> mathiaz: sorry - distracte - I need to get back to them!!
[16:46:17] <mathiaz> nealmcb: did you send an email to ubuntu-server with your proposal ?
[16:46:41] <nealmcb> not yet. I've got some fleshed out on the page, but want to finish that first
[16:47:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: ok.
[16:48:06] <mathiaz> As you may know, the Ubuntu Developer Summit will start next week
[16:48:17] <mathiaz> with a BarCamp this coming Weekend.
[16:48:41] <soren> *cough* FOSSCamp *cough*
[16:48:48] <mathiaz> A list of blueprints will be discussing for Hardy can be found at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server
[16:49:01] <mathiaz> soren: hum - it was renamed ?
[16:49:11] <soren> Er.. no?
[16:49:12] <soren> :)
[16:49:17] <nealmcb> that's the name - Fosscamp
[16:49:21] <soren> http://www.fosscamp.org/
[16:50:01] <mathiaz> soren: hum... ok.
[16:50:06] <soren> No biggie.
[16:50:08] <soren> :)
[16:50:35] <mathiaz> So if you wanna get involve in the discussion, the blueprints and their associated wiki page are the place to look at.
[16:51:38] <mathiaz> Is there anything else ?
[16:52:24] <nealmcb> will the schedule at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-boston-2007/2007-10-29/index.html point to the blueprints?
[16:52:32] <mathiaz> nealmcb: it should
[16:52:36] <Keybuk> nealmcb: it already does
[16:52:57] <nealmcb> In the past I remember it being hard to find out about some topics
[16:53:23] <nealmcb> Keybuk: hmmm - the titles don't seem to be links - ahh - some are
[16:53:33] <Keybuk> they're links if they have a little note icon next to them
[16:53:38] <Keybuk> if they're not, then the spec doesn't exist in LP yet
[16:54:10] <nealmcb> I'd just encourage folks to get something in both lp and the wiki - it helps a lot with context :-)
[16:54:22] <Keybuk> I've been doing just that
[16:54:28] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:55:13] <mathiaz> Ok. It's time to wrap up.
[16:55:23] <mathiaz> Next meeting in two weeks, same time, same place ?
[16:55:40] <soren> Er.. We might be busy at that point?
[16:56:05] <soren> AllHands, you know..
[16:56:31] <nealmcb> well, not everyone knows :-)
[16:56:46] <soren> Sorry, no :) It was for mathiaz :)
[16:57:03] <soren> Let's shoot for two week, same time, same place.
[16:57:14] <soren> We'll work it out.
[16:57:27] <mathiaz> Alright - then.
[16:57:34] <mathiaz> Thanks all and happy merging !
[16:57:34] <nealmcb> but I met Lamont in person at the Colorado gutsy party, and heard about it... a canonical meeting...
[16:57:42] * nealmcb waves to lamont
[16:57:46] <sommer> thanks all
[16:57:56] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.

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