This is the 9th meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 16:00 UTC and finishing at 16:59 UTC

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.

• Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.

• Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

Review ACTION points from previous meeting

mathiaz and dzportwood spent some time drafting the RubyOnRails spec [1], which was approved for hardy. ScottK heard that the spec made sense. The next phase is to start implementing it.

[1]: http//wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack

nijaba wrote a tutorial about JeOS [2]. He asked soren and others for reviewing it.

[2]: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS

ivoks started to work on integrating postfix and dovecot. The goal is to create a postinst script in the mail-server task that will setup postfix to use dovecot SASL for authentication. Progress is tracked on LP bug 164837 [3].

[3]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837

Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap

ACTION: sommer will add a section about dovecot+postfix in the packager section of the roadmap.

nealmcb sent an email about updated factoids. soren suggested they should be added to ubotu sooner than later. It's trivial to update a fact once it's there. nealmcb waits for feedback on his proposal.

sommer is currently updating the DNS section of the Server Guide. The Mail Filtering section is currently reviewed.

sommer suggested that the list of wiki pages that needs to be updated on help.ubuntu.com matches the theme set for bug triaging.

ACTION: sommer to update the section about wiki page on help.ubuntu.com.

ACTION: sommer to add samba related pages from h.u.c that needs to be cleaned up.

mathiaz started to update the Server Roadmap to include the specifications targeted for Hardy.

ACTION: mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmap with the specs for hardy.

ScottK asked when writing MIR for server related packages should start. mathiaz explained that the list will be posted in the spec page [4] so that the status of this process can be easily tracked. nijaba suggested to use a table to organize this effort. mathiaz also clarified that MIR can be written as soon as possible, the sooner, the better.

[4]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerPackageReview

ACTION: nijaba will update the MIR spec to make it easy to track the state of writing the MIRs.

ACTION: ScottK will write the amavisd-new MIR.

Any Other Business

soren mentioned the list of pending-sru [5] for each release. Testing is needed for each pending sru so that they can be moved from -proposed to -updates.

[5]: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html

nealmcb talked about LP bug 153996 - libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion. This bug needs an SRU.

[6]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/+bug/153996

ACTION: mathiaz will follow up on bug 153996.

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, December 4th at 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

IRC LOGS

Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[16:03:11] * soren wanders in (confused)
[16:03:34] <mathiaz> as suggested by nealmcb: who's around ?
[16:03:40] <nealmcb> Neal McBurnett
[16:03:45] <nijaba> Nicolas Barcet
[16:03:48] <soren> Soren Hansen
[16:03:52] <sommer> Adam Sommer
[16:03:53] * ScottK is here
[16:03:59] <coffeedude> Jerry Carter
[16:04:15] <mathiaz> Mathias Gug
[16:04:27] <dendrobates> Rick Clark
[16:04:32] <ScottK> ivoks sent regrets in the agenda, so he gets all the actions.
[16:04:38] <soren> \o/
[16:05:56] <mathiaz> Today's agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:06:09] <mathiaz> There isn't so much for now.
[16:06:18] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add an item for discussion ?
[16:06:40] <soren> We need testing of the server stuff here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html kthxbye
[16:07:01] <soren> I just wanted to shout that. No discussion. Just do it. :)
[16:07:19] <coffeedude> mathiaz: re: the LDAP client tools I signed up for at UDS...
[16:07:29] <soren> coffeedude: Are the done? Whee!
[16:07:40] <coffeedude> soren: nope.
[16:07:43] <nxvl_work> soren: yes sir!
[16:07:49] <soren> aw..
[16:07:57] <coffeedude> mathiaz: it will be a few more weeks before I can find the time. But still on the list.
[16:08:03] <coffeedude> mathiaz: do we have a spec up?
[16:08:06] <mathiaz> coffeedude: ok.
[16:08:22] <mathiaz> coffeedude: I think there is one somewhere.
[16:08:38] <coffeedude> mathiaz: I'll follow up after the meeting and track it down.
[16:08:40] <mathiaz> dendrobates was supposed to draft the client side of the ldap integration.
[16:09:05] <ScottK> When can we start doing MIR for stuff on the Hardy package list spec?
[16:09:06] <coffeedude> mathiaz: fair enough. I'll chat with dendrobates later then.
[16:09:31] <mathiaz> ScottK: that one of the spec too.
[16:09:48] <mathiaz> Ok so - let's move on to the next topic
[16:09:59] <ScottK> mathiaz: Yes. So when can we do the MIR?
[16:10:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:10:08] * nealmcb forgets what MIR is, besides peace
[16:10:14] <soren> And world.
[16:10:15] <ScottK> Main Inclusion Request
[16:10:19] <soren> Report.
[16:10:24] <ScottK> Yeah. That
[16:10:27] <mathiaz> Last meeting log: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071120
[16:10:57] <soren> We fixed the sudo bug thing.
[16:11:02] <mathiaz> Re sudo bug discussion: fixed !
[16:11:08] <soren> Er... Well... We found it.
[16:11:25] <soren> And made an ammendment to the release notes about not using the "no config" option for postfix.
[16:11:33] <mathiaz> soren: yes...
[16:11:58] <nealmcb> should we talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:12:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:12:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released]
[16:12:13] <mathiaz> I've spent some time working on the Ruby On Rails spec
[16:12:16] <jdstrand> soren: is the installer fixed for hardy?
[16:12:25] <soren> jdstrand: Yes.
[16:12:25] <mathiaz> it has been approved.
[16:12:44] <jdstrand> soren: praise be to soren :)
[16:12:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: what about your JeOS tutorial ?
[16:12:53] <zul> hey
[16:12:59] <nijaba> mathiaz: first draft in review
[16:13:06] <mathiaz> nijaba: where ?
[16:13:09] <soren> It's awaiting my review. Just like 27.000 other things. But I'm not bitter.
[16:13:26] <nijaba> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS
[16:13:54] <mathiaz> ivoks started to work on dovecot+postfix integration.
[16:14:11] <nealmcb> nijaba: cool - I'll look at it!!
[16:14:17] <mathiaz> the proposal is to use a postinst script in the mail-server task.
[16:14:22] <ScottK> mathiaz: I asked a guy I work with on a consulting project who does lots of Ruby stuff to look at the spec and he said, "It's on the right track" - meaning good enough he didn't think he needed to invest time in making it better.
[16:14:49] <mathiaz> ScottK: excellent ! Thanks.
[16:14:56] * ScottK would like to throw in some praise for ivoks on dovecot + postfix. It's good and important work he's doing.
[16:15:12] <dendrobates> nijaba: I read through it, great job!
[16:15:21] <nijaba> dendrobates: thanks
[16:16:48] <mathiaz> Ok. Seems that last meeting actions were taken.
[16:17:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:17:23] <nijaba> I dd find out that lvm has a problem in JeOS in the process of writing the tuto
[16:17:42] <mathiaz> nijaba: did you filed a bug ?
[16:17:52] <nijaba> soren says that it is in the seed but not in the package list
[16:18:07] <nijaba> nope, soren said not necessary... should I ?
[16:18:15] <mathiaz> nijaba: I don't think so.
[16:18:23] <soren> I think it's pointless.
[16:18:44] <mathiaz> The roadmap can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:18:44] <nealmcb> is it fixed?
[16:18:58] <nijaba> in the tuto: yes
[16:19:00] <mathiaz> I've started to update the wiki page wrt the plan for Hardy.
[16:19:08] <soren> We're going to completely redo the cd building stuff for it.
[16:19:21] <soren> ...and the bug is in the old cd building system.
[16:19:39] <nealmcb> so is it just an iso problem?
[16:19:51] <soren> Er.. Yes.
[16:19:52] <nealmcb> not ubuntu-jeos-builder?
[16:20:12] <soren> No. (Maybe now you see why it's a good idea to rename one of those)
[16:20:52] <nealmcb> well the whole point of jeos is that there are lots - one per application in some sense. so maybe the iso shouldn't be jeos?
[16:21:17] <sommer> mathiaz: it may be a good idea to add something about ivoks postfix+dovecot work to the packager corner.
[16:21:32] <nealmcb> but I'm happy for both to be jeos - enough jeos for all. but I'll read the wiki and think some more
[16:21:58] <mathiaz> sommer: good idea.
[16:22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: wanna add it ?
[16:22:35] <sommer> sure will do
[16:23:02] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to add a section about dovecot+postfix in packager section of the roadmap.
[16:23:19] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I've seen your proposal for the factoids.
[16:23:23] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:23:36] <nealmcb> more to come, but that is a start for the mail-related ones
[16:24:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: when do you plan to add them to ubotu ?
[16:24:35] <nealmcb> as soon as ScottK or lamont or some guru says they look ok
[16:24:41] <soren> As I wrote in my e-mail half an hour ago, I don't see any particular reason why we can't just add them now. Changing them later is easy, afaik?
[16:25:00] <mathiaz> soren: yes. I've done that already.
[16:25:11] <nealmcb> sounds good
[16:25:33] <soren> mathiaz: Er.. I just tried in #ubuntu-server? No go.
[16:25:42] <soren> mathiaz: Or are we talking about different things?
[16:25:51] <nealmcb> mathiaz: what is it you did?
[16:26:07] <mathiaz> soren: I didn't add the factoids
[16:26:32] <mathiaz> I meant that I already fixed some entries a couple of weeks ago and that it was a simple process.
[16:26:38] <nealmcb> good
[16:26:38] <soren> mathiaz: Oh!
[16:26:55] <ScottK> There was a fun thread on postfix-users today (speaking of factoids makes me think of webmin) http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2007-11/1324.html
[16:27:22] <soren> Great. In that case, just add them. We'll change them as we go along. There's not need to bureaucratise it :)
[16:27:41] <mathiaz> nealmcb: up for that ^^ ?
[16:27:50] <nealmcb> yup
[16:27:51] <lamont> nealmcb: hip deep in day-job stuff right now, I'll make time this week to review that
[16:28:03] <nealmcb> lamont: thanks
[16:28:14] <nealmcb> bother, those day jobs :-)
[16:29:03] <mathiaz> sommer: what are you plan for the server guide ?
[16:29:18] <mathiaz> sommer: is the section about ServerGuide for Hardy still relevant ?
[16:29:39] <sommer> mathiaz: currently working on updating the DNS seciton.
[16:29:59] <sommer> yes, I'm not sure about Paul's link though
[16:30:46] <sommer> also ScottK and lamont are in the process of reviewing a Mail Filtering section.
[16:31:01] <mathiaz> sommer: could you cleanup the help.ubuntu.com section also ?
[16:31:06] <ScottK> For some definition of "in the process" that means I'm planning on doing it.
[16:31:20] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, no problem
[16:31:22] <mathiaz> sommer: so that we have more visibility on what needs to be done.
[16:31:53] <mathiaz> sommer: you could also add new ones, so that people can start contributing if they're interested.
[16:32:34] <sommer> mathiaz: back before the Gutsy release there was sort of a "theme" as far as bugs go... are we going to continue that?
[16:32:37] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the section about wiki page on help.ubuntu.com
[16:32:50] <sommer> because I could update the h.u.c section based on that
[16:33:01] <mathiaz> sommer: hum... That would be a good idea.
[16:33:02] <nealmcb> I guess we need to get some web site admins to help with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/122297
[16:33:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122297 in ubuntu-doc "Server Guide draft has higher Google rank than released version" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:33:25] <lamont> nealmcb: send me a pointer to the factoids, ok?
[16:33:34] <nealmcb> lamont: you bet
[16:34:12] <mathiaz> sommer: I've added a section to triage samba bugs.
[16:34:34] <mathiaz> sommer: may be you could list wiki pages on h.u.c related to samba that needs to be updated ?
[16:34:50] <sommer> sure, sounds good to me
[16:35:21] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer add samba related pages from h.u.c that needs to be cleaned up.
[16:35:52] <mathiaz> For the developer corner, I've removed the old spec from Gutsy.
[16:36:06] <mathiaz> I'll add the new specs we're working on for Hardy.
[16:36:31] <mathiaz> ScottK: That will include the MIR spec.
[16:37:32] <ScottK> nealmcb: Surely that's invalid as a bug.
[16:37:36] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmpa with the specs for hardy.
[16:38:04] <ScottK> mathiaz: So how do I know when to start working on actually doing the MIR?
[16:38:06] <nealmcb> website bug? the bad pages should redirect or link to somewhere useful
[16:38:32] <mathiaz> ScottK: the plan is to create a wiki page with the list of MIR we wanna do.
[16:38:42] <ScottK> I don't think Google's ranking of pages is a valid bug.
[16:38:54] <ScottK> mathiaz: I thought we had that already from UDS?
[16:38:54] <mathiaz> ScottK: and then start doing them :)
[16:39:26] <nealmcb> ScottK: the point is that our website shows outdated information, and people searching for info should get good info
[16:39:36] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. There was a lot of them. We just need to create/update the wiki page so that we can track correctly what has been done.
[16:39:48] <ScottK> mathiaz: OK.
[16:40:05] <ScottK> nealmcb: OK. I just looked at the title of the bug.
[16:40:07] <mathiaz> ScottK: OTOH it should not stop you from writing MIR
[16:40:13] <nealmcb> and there are things we can do to improve the rank of good pages
[16:40:16] <ScottK> mathiaz: OK. That's what I wanted to hear.
[16:40:28] <nealmcb> like site maps
[16:40:40] <mathiaz> ScottK: Anyone can write a MIR.
[16:41:00] <ScottK> mathiaz: Yes, I know. I've done them before, just didn't want to get ahead of the plan.
[16:41:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: about MIR, do you want me to change the spec to a table with owner and status for each package ?
[16:41:18] <mathiaz> nijaba: that would be great !
[16:41:47] <nijaba> I'll do it tonight then
[16:42:02] <ScottK> nijaba: Would you put me down for amavisd-new?
[16:42:10] <nijaba> ScottK: sure
[16:42:14] <ScottK> Thanks
[16:42:29] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba will update the MIR spec to make it easy to track the state of writting the MIRs.
[16:42:47] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK will write the amavisd-new MIR.
[16:43:57] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:44:09] <mathiaz> nealmcb: you mentionned a postgrey bug
[16:44:21] <nealmcb> ahh - any other business....
[16:44:30] <soren> Did I mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?
[16:44:42] <nealmcb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:44:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:44:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released]
[16:44:47] <mathiaz> soren: I'm not sure... But better more than never :)
[16:45:04] <nealmcb> I'd love lamont to look at that - db4.4 bug that also affects svn
[16:45:21] <soren> mathiaz: Yeah, totally. I really wasn't sure if I had already brought up that we need to test the stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:45:39] <sommer> soren: just an fyi... I bookmarked the link
[16:45:53] * soren hugs sommer
[16:45:58] <mathiaz> soren: The link should be added to the server roadmap then.
[16:46:00] <nealmcb> and maybe apache, etc. maybe needs an sru? lamont added the patch that is proposed to be reverted
[16:46:01] <nijaba> soren: I think that you already mentioned that we need to test the stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:46:44] * nijaba waves at kees
[16:46:45] <soren> nijaba: Oh, good. I really wouldn't be good if we forgot to talk about http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html, so it's good that I remembered to mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html.
[16:46:51] <nealmcb> soren: what was that url again?
[16:46:54] <lamont> nealmcb: I feel no ownership for apache...
[16:46:56] <soren> I forget :(
[16:46:59] <sommer> lol
[16:47:15] <nealmcb> lamont: it was a db4.4 patch
[16:47:36] <nealmcb> to default to posix threads or something
[16:48:17] <lamont> that'd be a doko question
[16:48:22] <nealmcb> ok
[16:48:25] * lamont was just a puppet
[16:48:49] * nealmcb has a hard time picturing that, but moves on :-)
[16:48:56] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
[16:49:25] <nijaba> just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6L51uZjaZU
[16:49:27] * soren resists the tempatation to bring up http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html again
[16:51:16] <nealmcb> nijaba: what is the history of that video?
[16:51:46] <nijaba> nealmcb: we are running a test on some web site in NA to see how people respond to adds
[16:52:01] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[16:52:08] <nealmcb> nijaba: cute :-)
[16:52:16] <mathiaz> Do we need another meeting next week ?
[16:52:43] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think frequent short meetings are good.
[16:52:51] <nijaba> nealmcb: I don't like that one as much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkMlCeDu-0c
[16:52:52] <mathiaz> We should have the lest of specs for Hardy.
[16:52:56] <ScottK> mathiaz: Do we need an action on the db4.4 bug?
[16:53:12] <mathiaz> ScottK: what would be needed ?
[16:53:17] <ScottK> Fixing it.
[16:53:31] <nealmcb> someone who knows hime contacting doku?
[16:53:35] <ScottK> That or hounding doko until he fixes it.
[16:53:46] <nealmcb> preparing an sru?
[16:53:56] <nealmcb> or is that different?
[16:54:04] <nijaba> don't forget that we also need doku for idedtea
[16:54:18] <nealmcb> Sure - I'll have a refill!
[16:54:50] <ScottK> nealmcb: We'd need a patch and then someone would need to fix Hardy (assuming it's broken too) and then an SRU.
[16:54:56] <mathiaz> ScottK: Is the bug fixed in Hardy ?
[16:55:13] <ScottK> mathiaz: I've no idea.
[16:55:15] <nealmcb> the patch is there
[16:55:21] <nealmcb> I don't think it is in hardy
[16:55:25] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. First it needs to be fixed in Hardy (which is probably the case as debian fixed it.
[16:55:29] <ScottK> mathiaz: It's in Main, so I don't worry about it.
[16:55:31] <nealmcb> it is a 2line patch to revert a previous patch
[16:55:41] * ScottK looks around for a core-dev
[16:55:47] <mathiaz> nealmcb: so first it needs to be fixed in hardy.
[16:55:49] <nealmcb> what I don't know is why folks wanted the original patch - maybe performance with threads?
[16:55:55] <nealmcb> fixed in debian I think
[16:56:10] <mathiaz> ok. We're running out of time.
[16:56:27] <mathiaz> Next meeting: next week, same time, same place ?
[16:56:48] <sommer> sounds good to me
[16:56:59] <nealmcb> yeah
[16:57:08] <ScottK> nealmcb: On your factoid list, I don't think you should use the word default since none of them are in fact installed by default.
[16:57:18] <nealmcb> ScottK: good point
[16:57:22] <ScottK> mathiaz: Who's following up on db4.4?
[16:57:39] <nealmcb> soren - 27001?
[16:57:43] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:57:48] <soren> :(
[16:58:01] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'll have a look into it.
[16:58:05] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:58:07] <ScottK> nealmcb: Also, I'd mention Postfix and Mail Tranfer Agent in there too
[16:58:11] <ScottK> mathiaz: Thanks.
[16:58:12] * soren hugs mathiaz
[16:58:24] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to follow up on bug 153996
[16:58:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153996
[16:58:31] <nealmcb> ScottK: I talk about them - where are you looking?
[16:58:44] <nealmcb> ahh - full factoids for them?
[16:58:46] <ScottK> nealmcb: At the message you sent to the ML.
[16:59:07] <mathiaz> Next meeting: next week, same time, same place.
[16:59:09] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.

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