This is the 13th meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 16:00 UTC and finishing at 16:58 UTC

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.

• Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.

• Agree on next meeting date and time :
  • should we move to a weekly meeting ?
  • move to Wednesday at 17:00 UTC ?

Minutes

Update on postgrey bug 153996

nealmcb asked about the state of bug 153996.[1] The package has been sitting in -proposed for a few weeks and seems to fix the problem.

[1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/+bug/153996

ACTION: mathiaz will ask pitti about the state of bug 153996.

Review ACTION points from previous meeting

sommer started to work on including a default ssl configuration in apache. mathiaz explained that there are a couple of bugs related to this issue ([2],[3]). He also suggested to get in touch with the Debian maintainers to discuss the proposed solution. The main issue is that Debian doesn't have a standard way to deal with SSL certificates. Ubuntu uses the ssl-cert package and the snakeoil certificate to handle this.

[2]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/113099

• "Out of the box SSL config should be made available for Apache."

[3]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/77675

• "apache2-ssl-certificate has gone missing since feisty"

ACTION: sommer will contact debian apache maintainers wrt default ssl configuration.

sommer included the JeOS tutorial in the Server Guide.

ACTION: sommer will commit the JeOS tutorial as a section in the Server Guide.

Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap

ACTION: sommer will update the Roadmap wrt to the Apache SSL configuration.

sommer gave a quick status of the documentation - the Server Guide is being worked on. mathiaz and nijaba congratulated sommer for his job on the server guide.

nealmcb asked about the sate of e-box. webmin is a recurring question on IRC. He suggested to invite an ebox upstream developer to come to the next meeting and give an update.

nealmcb stated that most of the factoids have been included in ubotu. There is a list of extra factoids in the Roadmap.

ACTION: nealmcb will update the list of factoids on the Roadmap.

ACTION: mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmap with current plans for Hardy.

Agree on next meeting date and time

mathiaz reported that dendrobates has a conflict with the current date and time of the server team.

Several proposal were made to change the meeting schedule:

• wednesday at 17:00 UTC
• thursday at 16:00 UTC
• monday at 16:00 UTC

No concensus was reached.

ACTION: mathiaz will talk with dendrobates about this.

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, January 15th at 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

IRC LOGS

• before its mention

Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[16:02:22] <mathiaz> Welcome to the first ubuntu server team meeting of 2008 ! :)
[16:02:31] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03:12] <mathiaz> This is your 13th meeting...
[16:03:41] <mathiaz> So there isn't much on the agenda - anyone wants to add something before we go through it ?
[16:03:54] <zul> nope
[16:04:08] <nealmcb> mathiaz: I guess an update on the postgrey bug
[16:04:40] <mathiaz> nealmcb: bug number ?
[16:04:45] <nealmcb> I'll get it
[16:05:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update on postgrey bug
[16:06:03] <nealmcb> mathiaz: this is the one that you escalated a month or so ago, last I recall it was still in proposed
[16:06:56] <nealmcb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:06:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:07:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [High,Fix committed]
[16:07:40] <nealmcb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/+bug/153996
[16:08:38] <mathiaz> So I think it's just that the archive admins have been busy
[16:08:42] <nealmcb> I know we don't like to use the meeting for bugs, so we can move on, but it was on my mind - surprising it hasn't been included yet
[16:08:52] <nealmcb> yeah - I understand busy :-)
[16:09:01] <mathiaz> I'll ask pitti about it.
[16:09:19] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will ask pitti about the state of bug 153996
[16:09:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153996
[16:09:50] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:10:04] <mathiaz> Previous meeting log:
[16:10:06] <mathiaz> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071218_1600.html
[16:10:32] <mathiaz> sommer: I've seen you've filed a bug about apache ssl.
[16:11:07] <sommer> yep... I'm not sure how good it is, but I thought I'd take a crack at it
[16:11:24] <mathiaz> sommer: there are a couple of other bugs related to this.
[16:11:39] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/113099
[16:11:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113099 in apache2 "Out of the box SSL config should be made available for Apache." [Wishlist,Triaged]
[16:11:45] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/77675
[16:11:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 77675 in apache2 "apache2-ssl-certificate has gone missing since feisty" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[16:12:16] <mathiaz> sommer: did you get in touch with the debian maintainer ?
[16:12:44] <sommer> mathiaz: nope, I sort of just started patching :)
[16:12:52] <sommer> I can do that though
[16:12:58] <mathiaz> sommer: this issue has also been raised there IIRC, if we could agree on a solution for both ubuntu and debian it would be great.
[16:13:28] <mathiaz> sommer: the main issue is that debian doesn't have a default way to handle ssl certificates.
[16:13:57] <mathiaz> this is why some patches that ubuntu added to enable ssl support OOTB are not accepted by debian
[16:14:05] <sommer> mathiaz: gotcha... is there a way to get ssl-cert included into debian
[16:14:06] <mathiaz> (eg: dovecot)
[16:14:26] <mathiaz> but this depends a lot on the maintainers.
[16:14:52] <mathiaz> sommer: it is - but there isn't an official policy that says that ssl-cert should be the default way to handle ssl certs in debian.
[16:15:08] <sommer> mathiaz: ah, I see
[16:15:15] <mathiaz> debian hasn't settled on the default way to handle ssl certs.
[16:15:50] <mathiaz> so maintainers can be reluctant to enable ssl OOTB because of this.
[16:16:01] <sommer> is the issue still being debated, or is it not a very high priority?
[16:16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: I don't know.
[16:16:41] <nealmcb> sommer: does your patch end up giving a self-signed cert by default or something?
[16:16:47] <mathiaz> sommer: I'd get in touch first with the apache maintainer to see what they think about your solution.
[16:17:01] <sommer> mathiaz: it uses the snakeoil key and cert from ssl-cert package
[16:17:32] <mathiaz> sommer: I think that's a good solution - but only for ubuntu.
[16:17:33] <sommer> or nealmcb rather
[16:17:49] <nealmcb> I haven't looked recently at that - so is it just a cert for the current fqdn of the machine or something?
[16:17:52] <sommer> mathiaz: sure I'll contact them
[16:18:06] <mathiaz> sommer: so it may be worth discussing with debian maintainers the other configuration options and the way to do it, without forcing them to use ssl-cert.
[16:18:08] <nealmcb> or does it ask questions etc?
[16:18:44] <sommer> nealmcb: I beleive it's generated from the hostname
[16:18:54] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will contact debian apache maintainer wrt default ssl configuration.
[16:19:37] <mathiaz> soren, nijaba: what's the state of the JeOS tutorial ?
[16:19:48] <nijaba> mathiaz: it is still online
[16:20:00] <nijaba> as the artile has not been published yet AFAIK
[16:20:25] <sommer> it's also been "translated" into DocBook :)
[16:21:32] <mathiaz> sommer: is there any plan to include it in the server guide ?
[16:21:39] <mathiaz> sommer: or make a JeOS guide ?
[16:22:01] <nealmcb> I'm wondering if the jeos page might be made a more general, short into with link to the article, and the article text might come back as a subpage tutorial when it is old enough
[16:22:07] <nijaba> mathiaz: I would not be happy to have a separate JeOs guide
[16:22:38] <nijaba> nealmcb: good idea, but it might be redundant with what we have on u.c
[16:22:39] <mathiaz> nijaba, sommer: so what's the purpose of using DocBook then ?
[16:22:51] <nealmcb> *short intro*
[16:23:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: to be able to ubdate it while iti is not published on the wiki anymore
[16:23:04] <sommer> mathiaz: I think it was to "save" it into bzr
[16:23:26] <sommer> I haven't actually commited it yet though
[16:24:07] <mathiaz> hum.. ok.
[16:24:11] <sommer> the way it is now is a section in the Server Guide, but that could be changed
[16:24:55] <nijaba> sommer: I think it is nice as you did it
[16:25:02] <mathiaz> So any action to take regarding JeOS documentation ?
[16:25:09] <nealmcb> makes sense to me to have a jeos section there
[16:25:18] <nijaba> not AFAIK
[16:25:26] <sommer> nijaba: cool, I'll go ahead and commit it
[16:25:55] <mathiaz> ACTION: sommer will add the JeOS tutorial as a section to the Server Guide.
[16:26:08] <nealmcb> so long as it doesn't quickly go out-of-date, since the server guide is released rarely
[16:26:14] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will add the JeOS tutorial as a section to the Server Guide.
[16:26:17] <nealmcb> (compared to the wiki)
[16:26:28] <sommer> nealmcb: heh... hopefully it will be updated for each release :-)
[16:26:42] <mathiaz> Anything else from the last meeting ?
[16:26:53] <nealmcb> sommer: sure, but we only get one shot per release....
[16:29:33] <sommer> mathiaz: I think that was pretty much it from the last meeting
[16:30:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[16:30:33] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:30:58] <mathiaz> Something to say about Triagging ?
[16:31:50] <soren> Nope
[16:32:39] <mathiaz> About Packaging ?
[16:32:54] <mathiaz> sommer started to work on the ssl configuration for apache.
[16:33:21] <mathiaz> sommer: could you update the roadmap about it ?
[16:33:35] <sommer> mathiaz: sure
[16:34:32] <mathiaz> So Documentation.
[16:34:51] <mathiaz> How things are going in there ?
[16:35:01] <sommer> Server Guide is cruisin along
[16:35:10] <mathiaz> sommer: great !
[16:35:22] <nealmcb> back on packaging- anyone talked to ebox folks? Can we get them to come to our next meeting?
[16:35:30] <mathiaz> sommer: you're doing a great job at documentation ! thanks for your contribution !
[16:35:30] <sommer> I think most of the large updates have been done, there's probably minor tweeks here and there though
[16:35:39] <nijaba> yep, sommer is doing a great job. I still have a bit to review though since last meeting
[16:35:40] <sommer> mathiaz: welcome
[16:36:10] <nealmcb> we so constantly get queries about webmin etc - seems like a priority for hardy, and not an easy one
[16:36:19] <sommer> plus there may be a couple of others helping out in the near future :)
[16:36:23] <nealmcb> sommer: yeah - great work!
[16:37:21] <mathiaz> sommer: yes - I've seen a couple messages on ubuntu-doc.
[16:37:33] <sommer> nealmcb: thanks, and I agree about ebox
[16:37:39] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what about factoids ?
[16:38:36] <nealmcb> I think an ebox factoid is top prio :-)
[16:38:43] <nealmcb> I'll add it
[16:38:56] <mathiaz> nealmcb: did you add a couple of them to the bot ?
[16:39:27] <nealmcb> yes - last month as noted there ljl and I added a bunch - he was great
[16:39:59] <mathiaz> nealmcb: ok. So they should be removed from the roadmap.
[16:40:01] <nealmcb> well, I proposed and he made them better and added them :-)
[16:40:11] <nealmcb> yes - should be removed
[16:40:15] <nealmcb> I'll do that too
[16:40:41] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nealmcb will update the list of factoids on the Roadmap.
[16:41:16] <mathiaz> Anything else related to Documentation ?
[16:41:53] <nealmcb> soren: would you like to invite an ebox person to come to the next meeting and give us an update? or provide a name of who to invite?
[16:42:04] <soren> nealmcb: I can do that.
[16:42:07] <sommer> I think that's pretty much it... still need to make some time for the Samba wiki page updates
[16:42:07] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:43:35] <mathiaz> Let's move on the Developer section
[16:43:49] <mathiaz> It's not up to date.
[16:44:01] <mathiaz> I'll update the section with the plans for Hardy.
[16:44:21] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will update the developer section.
[16:45:53] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:46:13] <nealmcb> [idea] soren will invite an ebox person to come to the next meeting and give us an update
[16:46:15] <mathiaz> dendrobates asked if the meeting could be moved as he is not able to attend.
[16:46:57] <mathiaz> one proposal is to move it wednesday at 17:00 UTC
[16:47:11] <mathiaz> which is one hour later than currently.
[16:47:37] <mathiaz> another proposal is to move it to Thursday at 16:00 UTC
[16:48:11] <nealmcb> wed am is ok, but I have a 1600 meeting too
[16:48:17] <mathiaz> the ubuntu-dev meeting is scheduled for this time every fours week though
[16:48:19] <nealmcb> thu is worse
[16:48:26] <sommer> either work for me ;)
[16:48:46] <jdstrand> either are good for me
[16:49:00] <mathiaz> another question is if we should have weekly meeting
[16:49:10] <mathiaz> I think we already talked about that in december
[16:49:24] <mathiaz> but don't remember the outcome of the discussion
[16:49:36] <sommer> didn't we have a meeting once a week in dec?
[16:49:51] <nealmcb> I think it was "yes, weekly"
[16:50:02] <mathiaz> ok.
[16:50:07] <sommer> not sure if it was "official", but it worked out okay
[16:50:30] <nealmcb> and it will work better with mathiaz back in town :-)
[16:51:25] <mathiaz> another proposal is monday at 16:00 UTC
[16:52:01] * sommer likes 16:00 UTC the best, but either work
[16:52:45] <mathiaz> yeah 16:00 UTC is the best time for both europeans and americans..
[16:52:50] <nealmcb> mon 1600 works for me
[16:53:11] <mathiaz> which means that it's very very busy for most of us..
[16:53:47] <jdstrand> mathiaz: could have multiple meeting rooms...
[16:54:09] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yeah - but people need to attend the meetings...
[16:54:17] <nealmcb> jdstrand: and practice thrashing? :-)
[16:54:26] <jdstrand> :)
[16:55:08] <nijaba> Mon 16 UTC is conflicting with a appt that dendrobates and I have have with a partner each week...
[16:55:11] <mathiaz> soren: mon 16:00 UTC ?
[16:55:20] <mathiaz> nijaba: argh..
[16:55:54] <mathiaz> so we're running out of time.
[16:56:05] <mathiaz> I'll try to come up with something sane for next meeting.
[16:56:11] <mathiaz> for now we don't move it.
[16:56:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will try to figure a new time for the server team meeting.
[16:56:56] <nealmcb> but it would be nice to have dendrobates here....
[16:57:01] <mathiaz> For now - next week, same place, same time.
[16:57:21] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I'll discuss this with him.
[16:57:28] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:57:36] <mathiaz> nealmcb: and send an email if there is any change before next meeting.
[16:58:13] <mathiaz> Thanks all for coming.
[16:58:28] <nijaba> thanks for leading the meeting mathiaz
[16:58:43] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.

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