Items we will be discussing:
- Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
- Server survey - too long. Should we cut some questions ?
- Agree on next meeting date and time.
faulkes- created a project on Launchpad  for his forum analyser . There is a README file in the src directory outlining how to install the software.
owh drafted an announcement for the survey . He also added a list of resources to which the announcement should be sent.
nijaba reported that testers found the survey too long to complete.
ACTION: faulkes-, owh and nijaba to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter.
mathiaz revamped the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages . The process to run tests and report results has been streamlined. He will send a separate announcement to ubuntu-server about the ServerTestingTeam.
ACTION: mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
soren has come across a few use cases he hadn't taken into account: Booting off of the network and having the root filesystem on iscsi. He'll discuss supporting this scenario with dendrobates and slangasek.
ACTION: soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs.
Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
The QA team maintains a list of bugs that should be fixed for hardy . kirkland fixed one bug related to nfs. owh and kirkland will take a look at the ntp bug.
soren uploaded kvm 62. He is also looking into adding parvirt clock to the kernel which should improve timing issues in virtual machines.
dendrobates is waiting for a new release from upstream.
zul filed a FeatureFreezeException request, which has been granted. A new version of ebox is available in universe - testers are welcomed !
Agree on next meeting date and time
Next meeting will be on Wednesday, March 12th at 21:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting [21:01:08] <faulkes-> lead away mathiaz [21:01:18] <mathiaz> Today's agenda can be found online: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [21:02:28] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting. [21:02:46] <mathiaz> Previous meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080227 [21:03:15] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] forum reporting [21:03:33] <faulkes-> ok then [21:03:39] <mathiaz> anything to add or disscuss on the forum front faulkes- ? [21:03:46] <faulkes-> yes [21:03:56] <mathiaz> I think you've published the code on LP [21:04:06] <faulkes-> I did a complete rewrite of the code and published it to LP [21:04:16] <faulkes-> https://launchpad.net/forumstats/ [21:04:37] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great - do you have some documentation somewhere ? [21:04:47] <faulkes-> it is much more exact in the nature of how it selects and adds stuff [21:05:00] <faulkes-> there is a README file supplied with the source [21:05:17] <faulkes-> and I have documented the source as well, it's only about 120 lines long [21:05:29] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great. So what's the next step ? [21:05:50] <mathiaz> faulkes-: do you want to add more features to it ? [21:06:01] <faulkes-> the next step is linking the individual graphs and categories, to being able to see the individual posts [21:06:06] <mathiaz> faulkes-: or should we think about what we can do with the outcome ? [21:06:42] <faulkes-> which should be fairly easy to do, I have been very busy the last week with pm course exams and taking on a new FT position [21:07:14] <faulkes-> the outcome, is more a time based situation, I will also add in the ability to select by date [21:07:44] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok. Seems great. [21:07:49] <faulkes-> because the posts affecting something from time X to time Y, may be unrelated due to version from time Z to time L [21:08:00] <owh> faulkes-: Is there a way to host the current branch so it can display results? [21:08:36] <owh> As in, be "live" [21:08:38] <faulkes-> that may be possible but it would require access to my database [21:08:57] <faulkes-> if you want to host one yourself, you can run the code completely independent of me [21:09:10] <faulkes-> and allow it to gather stats [21:09:20] <faulkes-> the requirements are listed in the README for running it [21:09:22] <owh> Does the code have a means to generate a database as well? [21:09:47] <faulkes-> there is sql files included in the LP branch [21:09:52] <owh> Cool. [21:10:06] <faulkes-> the README has instructions regarding them [21:10:19] <owh> Excellent, documentation that actually helps :) [21:10:32] <mathiaz> How is the classification of post done ? [21:10:44] <mathiaz> faulkes-: I think this is the trickiest part [21:11:01] <faulkes-> classification is done via a dictionary [21:11:10] <faulkes-> unfortunately, that means building the dictionary [21:11:19] <faulkes-> I have included the one which is currently used [21:11:35] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok - is there a way to reassign posts to a different category if they've been misclassifed ? [21:11:49] <faulkes-> so, if you wanted to use the code to monitor say, Desktop forum, you would need to build your own [21:12:10] <faulkes-> mathiaz: currently no, that would be an admin feature I guess, but wouldn't be hard to build in [21:12:24] <faulkes-> as well as add additional categories, terms, etc.. [21:12:55] <owh> Going that route would then require a sort of "meta" individual, that seems like a lot of work. [21:12:56] <faulkes-> right now, it is by hand, mostly for lack of time on my part to build that in but it would be a fairly straight forward excersize [21:13:02] <mathiaz> faulkes-: These are more features. Let's try to get something done first and see how can extract information from that. [21:13:32] <mathiaz> Let's move on. [21:13:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey [21:13:56] <owh> That would be me. [21:13:58] <faulkes-> me again I guess as nijaba is away or do you want to handle it mathiaz? [21:14:00] <mathiaz> nijaba is not around. [21:14:14] <faulkes-> I can go from his action email, that you updated [21:14:22] <mathiaz> I've updated the ReportingPage with a status he sent me. [21:14:38] <mathiaz> Anything else to add ? [21:14:39] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage [21:15:03] <faulkes-> sec [21:15:40] <owh> While faulkes- is looking... [21:15:42] <owh> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch which has as many contacts in it as possible, but suggestions are welcome. The intent is to use the body text as the email text. [21:15:46] <owh> I tried coming up with actual press contacts where relevant, but I don't have any actual Canonical press contact. [21:15:50] <owh> I'm not sure how we best ask Server Team Members to blog about the survey so it shows up on Planet Ubuntu. [21:15:51] <mathiaz> It seems that the survey is too long to take. [21:16:04] <owh> Yes, I'd agree with that. [21:16:17] <faulkes-> well, we've only had a small sampling so far [21:16:25] <faulkes-> however [21:16:50] <faulkes-> we should be always reporting feature/bug requests to LP, I don't generally check the page itself [21:16:58] <faulkes-> so there is some stuff there that I can work on [21:17:14] <faulkes-> as for shortening the survey, I think we can do that effectively [21:17:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: I've communicated with Jonathan Corbet of LWN before, I can send him a note asking if it would be possible to publicize on LWN.net [21:17:44] <kirkland> no promises--he only sometimes responds to my email :-) [21:17:46] <faulkes-> I will look at tuning the questions so it is faster [21:17:56] <owh> kirkland: Add it to the wiki page, you don't need to give the email address if you're not comfortable with it. [21:18:01] <mathiaz> kirkland: seems great - could you add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch ? [21:18:12] <owh> kirkland: That way we don't hit LWN multiple times. [21:18:52] <owh> faulkes-: I wonder if the survey length is a function of a poorly defined audience/spec. I'm not saying it is, I'm just wondering. [21:19:02] <mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter [21:19:07] <owh> faulkes-: It seems to be sprawling all over the place. [21:19:28] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: could you coordinate with nijaba ? [21:19:40] <owh> Yup [21:19:40] <faulkes-> there is some logical order which needs to be done on the questions [21:19:53] <faulkes-> mathiaz: yes, I will speak to nijaba [21:19:57] <kirkland> mathiaz: owh: done. [21:20:03] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: thanks - [21:20:06] <mathiaz> Let's move on. [21:20:12] <owh> Perhaps we can catch up afterwards faulkes- and have a chat about it. [21:20:19] <faulkes-> certainly [21:20:49] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] ServerTestingTeam [21:21:11] <mathiaz> So I spent some time to revamp the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages. [21:21:28] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam [21:21:58] <mathiaz> The idea is to increase hardware testing for hardy. [21:22:12] <mathiaz> Reporting the results is done in the wiki. [21:22:39] <faulkes-> interesting, ok, I may be able to add some to that [21:22:53] <mathiaz> I'll also send an email to the previous people involved in the team and ask if they can still contribute. [21:23:10] <mathiaz> Anyone that has some server hardware is welcome to participate. [21:23:30] <faulkes-> for those unaware of my current status, I've moved from being a consultant to a FTE job, I will be converting the current environment to -server [21:23:34] <mathiaz> The idea is to download an iso and make sure the installation is successfll [21:24:05] <mathiaz> Yet another way to contribute to the Server Team :) [21:24:06] <faulkes-> mathiaz: I should have extra hardware resources now available to put to it [21:24:32] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great ! I've updated the wiki page to streamline the reporting process [21:25:12] <owh> mathiaz: That's looking great. Do you think it would be useful to add that link to the Survey Announcement to encourage more helpers, or might that be counter productive? [21:25:29] <mathiaz> owh: I'll make a separate announcement [21:25:34] <owh> Given that we're targeting -server users. [21:25:34] <faulkes-> mathiaz: will ServerTestingTeam be a subset of the ServerTeam for membership purposes or? [21:25:51] <mathiaz> faulkes-: for now, there isn't any LP team or membership [21:26:00] <mathiaz> It may be usefull at some point. [21:26:07] <faulkes-> owh: well, I think the survey is geared more to established environments rather than test ones [21:26:27] <mathiaz> faulkes-: correct - this is targeted at development versions. [21:26:32] <owh> Sure, but they're the same audience I would have thought. [21:26:43] <faulkes-> however, I see the reverse of that, in which we could bring in more people who have to support -server [21:26:56] * faulkes- nods [21:27:11] <owh> Hence my query :) [21:27:28] <mathiaz> I'll send an email to -server to bring more people on board for the ServerTestingTeam [21:27:41] <faulkes-> I think for now, we should leave it seperate and let mathiaz start [21:28:01] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam [21:28:32] <mathiaz> Let's move on and Review Roadmap and ReportingPage. [21:28:42] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap [21:28:47] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage [21:29:12] <mathiaz> So I'd like to go through the items that are on the Roadmap but haven't any status on the ReportingPage [21:30:04] <owh> Is there a way to combine the two pages so it becomes more obvious? [21:30:16] <owh> Or is that counter productive? [21:30:32] <mathiaz> owh: well - I'm still trying to figure out how we can do that correctly [21:30:47] <mathiaz> so I'm still experimenting with this [21:31:00] <mathiaz> The ReportingPage is something new [21:31:04] <owh> We could make a template that "encourages" correct editing. [21:31:35] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support [21:31:43] <mathiaz> soren: any news on that ? [21:32:06] <soren> YEah. [21:32:25] <soren> Um... It seems that there are a few use cases that I had not taken into account when I implemented it. [21:32:47] <soren> Booting off of the network and having your root filesystem on iscsi for instance. [21:33:14] <soren> So.. That's still work that probably needs to be done. [21:33:27] <mathiaz> soren: would this be for hardy ? [21:33:34] <mathiaz> soren: isn't that a new feature ? [21:33:42] <soren> mathiaz: Yes. Yes, it is. [21:34:00] <soren> mathiaz: WEll, from certain users' perspective it's a bug. [21:34:26] <soren> I'll have to take it up with dendrobates and slangasek. [21:35:04] <owh> mathiaz: Isn't it only a bug if someone looses functionality, aren't we talking about *new* iscsi support? [21:35:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs [21:35:30] <owh> I mean, at present it's just "not yet supported". [21:35:51] <mathiaz> owh: correct - this is why it needs to be discussed with the release team. [21:36:03] <soren> owh: It's a grey area. [21:36:08] <owh> Ah. [21:36:14] * owh shuts up. [21:36:14] <mathiaz> owh: we could try to get a FFexception. [21:36:17] <soren> Just because something has never worked doesn't mean it's a feature. [21:36:39] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Fix bugs marked by the QATeam [21:36:42] <soren> Er... crap, that came out wrong. [21:36:49] <owh> I understand, I just figured we're better off making sure that what there is is working. [21:37:06] <mathiaz> The qa team has put up a list of bug for hardy [21:37:08] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server [21:37:22] <mathiaz> kirkland: did you fix the nfs bug ? [21:37:28] <faulkes-> at least from my experience, booting from san for root fs has been around quite awhile, especially via pxe [21:37:46] <kirkland> mathiaz: affirmative, with the help of kees, and inifinity [21:38:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: no longer in that list ;-) woohoo [21:38:33] <mathiaz> kirkland: great ! [21:38:38] <mathiaz> there is an ntp bug left now [21:39:05] <owh> Isn't that just a case of changing the init.d order for ntp? [21:39:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: I was thinking that it could be solved by similar locking [21:39:28] <mathiaz> owh: I don't think so. [21:40:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think it has to do with NetworkManager [21:40:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: are the two bugs caused by the same problem [21:40:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - that's what I think too. [21:40:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: only distantly... [21:40:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: both have upstart implications [21:40:40] <mathiaz> so it's an ifup/down script problem may be. [21:40:59] <mathiaz> ntp hasn't been designed to run on a laptop/desktop. [21:41:20] <owh> It seems to be related to DHCP rather than NetworkManager per se, that is, the ifup/down script. [21:42:10] <mathiaz> anyone wants to have a look at the bug ? [21:42:29] <zul> not me [21:42:51] <faulkes-> I wont likely be able to touch it either [21:42:55] * soren looks up in the air [21:43:04] <owh> Fine. [21:43:08] * faulkes- whistles innocently, hands behind his back [21:43:10] <owh> I'll have a squiz. [21:43:16] <owh> Sigh. [21:43:18] <owh> :) [21:43:18] <kirkland> mathiaz: I don't think it's ifup/ifdown so much [21:43:18] <kirkland> but perhaps... [21:43:18] <kirkland> mathiaz: should I tackle that bug? [21:43:18] <kirkland> (I hadn't been concentrating on it) [21:43:46] <mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list [21:43:55] <owh> Damn, too slow :) [21:44:01] <mathiaz> kirkland: too late ;) - but you can still help out owh [21:44:16] * owh accepts any help:) [21:44:28] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Virtualization [21:44:30] <kirkland> ;-) ping me owh [21:44:51] <mathiaz> soren: any news ? [21:45:09] <soren> Yes. [21:45:19] <soren> kvm 62 was uploaded. [21:45:54] <soren> I've just now (within the last 47 seconds) discovered an issie with virtio_net in it which I'm working on. [21:46:07] <soren> I've sent the corresponding updates to the kernel to the kernel team. [21:46:19] <soren> It'll be pulled after the alpha releases. [21:46:42] <soren> I'm also looking into some last minute virtio fun to include in the guest kernel. [21:46:49] <soren> The paravirt clock, to be exact. [21:46:59] <zul> sounds scarey [21:47:06] <soren> Other htan that, I'm going into mad bug fixing mode. [21:47:34] <soren> zul: I pretty much hooks up your guest clock to the host's ditto. And that's the end of sucky timing issues in virtual machines. [21:47:47] <mathiaz> soren: great [21:47:56] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Windows authentication integration [21:48:12] <zul> soren: how well tested is it? does it report clock drifts and the like? [21:48:33] <mathiaz> dendrobates: is there a new version likewise-open ready to be tested ? [21:48:42] <soren> zul: That's the sort of stuff I need to check up on first. [21:48:53] <zul> soren: yah :) [21:48:53] <mathiaz> people started to test what's in hardy and reported bugs. [21:49:00] <dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet. waiting on upstream. [21:49:15] <dendrobates> mathiaz: was supposed to be today. [21:50:04] <mathiaz> Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap. [21:50:14] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business [21:50:23] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ? [21:50:31] <zul> ebox had a ffe filed today [21:50:54] <zul> but nothing from me [21:51:09] <mathiaz> nealmcb: could you add an factoid for servergui ? [21:51:19] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I've added an item about it on the Roadmap [21:51:37] <sommer> ivoks mentioned that he's been sick for the last 10 days, but should be back soon [21:52:22] <sommer> to work on bacula, etc [21:53:19] <owh> Does this mean we have a meeting that actually finishes in less than an hour? [21:53:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time. [21:53:42] <mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ? [21:53:47] <owh> Yup [21:53:53] <kirkland> +1 [21:53:59] <sommer> o// [21:54:07] <owh> These early mornings are going to kill me one day :) [21:54:56] <mathiaz> alright then. See ya next week [21:55:02] <mathiaz> thanks all for being here. [21:55:11] <mathiaz> And happy alpha6 testing ! :) [21:55:23] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all [21:55:32] <owh> Thanks mathiaz [21:55:43] <mathiaz> #endmeeting Meeting ended.