Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
• Server survey - too long. Should we cut some questions ?

• Review ["ServerTeam/Roadmap"] and ["ServerTeam/ReportingPage"].

• Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

Forum Reporting

faulkes- created a project on Launchpad [1] for his forum analyser [1]. There is a README file in the src directory outlining how to install the software.

[1]: https://launchpad.net/forumstats/ [2]: http://ubuntu.oss-mgmt.com/

Server survey

owh drafted an announcement for the survey [3]. He also added a list of resources to which the announcement should be sent.

[3]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch

nijaba reported that testers found the survey too long to complete.

ACTION: faulkes-, owh and nijaba to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter.

ServerTestingTeam

mathiaz revamped the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages [4]. The process to run tests and report results has been streamlined. He will send a separate announcement to ubuntu-server about the ServerTestingTeam.

[4]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam

ACTION: mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam

iSCSI Support

soren has come across a few use cases he hadn't taken into account: Booting off of the network and having the root filesystem on iscsi. He'll discuss supporting this scenario with dendrobates and slangasek.

ACTION: soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs.

Fix bugs marked by the QATeam

The QA team maintains a list of bugs that should be fixed for hardy [5]. kirkland fixed one bug related to nfs. owh and kirkland will take a look at the ntp bug.

[5]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server.

Virtualization

soren uploaded kvm 62. He is also looking into adding parvirt clock to the kernel which should improve timing issues in virtual machines.

Windows Integration

dendrobates is waiting for a new release from upstream.

Ebox

zul filed a FeatureFreezeException request, which has been granted. A new version of ebox is available in universe - testers are welcomed !

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Wednesday, March 12th at 21:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[21:01:08] <faulkes-> lead away mathiaz
[21:01:18] <mathiaz> Today's agenda can be found online: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[21:02:28] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:02:46] <mathiaz> Previous meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080227
[21:03:15] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] forum reporting
[21:03:33] <faulkes-> ok then
[21:03:39] <mathiaz> anything to add or disscuss on the forum front faulkes- ?
[21:03:46] <faulkes-> yes
[21:03:56] <mathiaz> I think you've published the code on LP
[21:04:06] <faulkes-> I did a complete rewrite of the code and published it to LP
[21:04:16] <faulkes-> https://launchpad.net/forumstats/
[21:04:37] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great - do you have some documentation somewhere ?
[21:04:47] <faulkes-> it is much more exact in the nature of how it selects and adds stuff
[21:05:00] <faulkes-> there is a README file supplied with the source
[21:05:17] <faulkes-> and I have documented the source as well, it's only about 120 lines long
[21:05:29] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great. So what's the next step ?
[21:05:50] <mathiaz> faulkes-: do you want to add more features to it ?
[21:06:01] <faulkes-> the next step is linking the individual graphs and categories, to being able to see the individual posts
[21:06:06] <mathiaz> faulkes-: or should we think about what we can do with the outcome ?
[21:06:42] <faulkes-> which should be fairly easy to do, I have been very busy the last week with pm course exams and taking on a new FT position
[21:07:14] <faulkes-> the outcome, is more a time based situation, I will also add in the ability to select by date
[21:07:44] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok. Seems great.
[21:07:49] <faulkes-> because the posts affecting something from time X to time Y, may be unrelated due to version from time Z to time L
[21:08:00] <owh> faulkes-: Is there a way to host the current branch so it can display results?
[21:08:36] <owh> As in, be "live"
[21:08:38] <faulkes-> that may be possible but it would require access to my database
[21:08:57] <faulkes-> if you want to host one yourself, you can run the code completely independent of me
[21:09:10] <faulkes-> and allow it to gather stats
[21:09:20] <faulkes-> the requirements are listed in the README for running it
[21:09:22] <owh> Does the code have a means to generate a database as well?
[21:09:47] <faulkes-> there is sql files included in the LP branch
[21:09:52] <owh> Cool.
[21:10:06] <faulkes-> the README has instructions regarding them
[21:10:19] <owh> Excellent, documentation that actually helps :)
[21:10:32] <mathiaz> How is the classification of post done ?
[21:10:44] <mathiaz> faulkes-: I think this is the trickiest part
[21:11:01] <faulkes-> classification is done via a dictionary
[21:11:10] <faulkes-> unfortunately, that means building the dictionary
[21:11:19] <faulkes-> I have included the one which is currently used
[21:11:35] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok - is there a way to reassign posts to a different category if they've been misclassifed ?
[21:11:49] <faulkes-> so, if you wanted to use the code to monitor say, Desktop forum, you would need to build your own
[21:12:10] <faulkes-> mathiaz: currently no, that would be an admin feature I guess, but wouldn't be hard to build in
[21:12:24] <faulkes-> as well as add additional categories, terms, etc..
[21:12:55] <owh> Going that route would then require a sort of "meta" individual, that seems like a lot of work.
[21:12:56] <faulkes-> right now, it is by hand, mostly for lack of time on my part to build that in but it would be a fairly straight forward excersize
[21:13:02] <mathiaz> faulkes-: These are more features. Let's try to get something done first and see how can extract information from that.
[21:13:32] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:13:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey
[21:13:56] <owh> That would be me.
[21:13:58] <faulkes-> me again I guess as nijaba is away or do you want to handle it mathiaz?
[21:14:00] <mathiaz> nijaba is not around.
[21:14:14] <faulkes-> I can go from his action email, that you updated
[21:14:22] <mathiaz> I've updated the ReportingPage with a status he sent me.
[21:14:38] <mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
[21:14:39] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[21:15:03] <faulkes-> sec
[21:15:40] <owh> While faulkes- is looking...
[21:15:42] <owh> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch which has as many contacts in it as possible, but suggestions are welcome. The intent is to use the body text as the email text.
[21:15:46] <owh> I tried coming up with actual press contacts where relevant, but I don't have any actual Canonical press contact.
[21:15:50] <owh> I'm not sure how we best ask Server Team Members to blog about the survey so it shows up on Planet Ubuntu.
[21:15:51] <mathiaz> It seems that the survey is too long to take.
[21:16:04] <owh> Yes, I'd agree with that.
[21:16:17] <faulkes-> well, we've only had a small sampling so far
[21:16:25] <faulkes-> however
[21:16:50] <faulkes-> we should be always reporting feature/bug requests to LP, I don't generally check the page itself
[21:16:58] <faulkes-> so there is some stuff there that I can work on
[21:17:14] <faulkes-> as for shortening the survey, I think we can do that effectively
[21:17:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: I've communicated with Jonathan Corbet of LWN before, I can send him a note asking if it would be possible to publicize on LWN.net
[21:17:44] <kirkland> no promises--he only sometimes responds to my email :-)
[21:17:46] <faulkes-> I will look at tuning the questions so it is faster
[21:17:56] <owh> kirkland: Add it to the wiki page, you don't need to give the email address if you're not comfortable with it.
[21:18:01] <mathiaz> kirkland: seems great - could you add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch ?
[21:18:12] <owh> kirkland: That way we don't hit LWN multiple times.
[21:18:52] <owh> faulkes-: I wonder if the survey length is a function of a poorly defined audience/spec. I'm not saying it is, I'm just wondering.
[21:19:02] <mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
[21:19:07] <owh> faulkes-: It seems to be sprawling all over the place.
[21:19:28] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: could you coordinate with nijaba ?
[21:19:40] <owh> Yup
[21:19:40] <faulkes-> there is some logical order which needs to be done on the questions
[21:19:53] <faulkes-> mathiaz: yes, I will speak to nijaba
[21:19:57] <kirkland> mathiaz: owh: done.
[21:20:03] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: thanks -
[21:20:06] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:20:12] <owh> Perhaps we can catch up afterwards faulkes- and have a chat about it.
[21:20:19] <faulkes-> certainly
[21:20:49] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] ServerTestingTeam
[21:21:11] <mathiaz> So I spent some time to revamp the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages.
[21:21:28] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
[21:21:58] <mathiaz> The idea is to increase hardware testing for hardy.
[21:22:12] <mathiaz> Reporting the results is done in the wiki.
[21:22:39] <faulkes-> interesting, ok, I may be able to add some to that
[21:22:53] <mathiaz> I'll also send an email to the previous people involved in the team and ask if they can still contribute.
[21:23:10] <mathiaz> Anyone that has some server hardware is welcome to participate.
[21:23:30] <faulkes-> for those unaware of my current status, I've moved from being a consultant to a FTE job, I will be converting the current environment to -server
[21:23:34] <mathiaz> The idea is to download an iso and make sure the installation is successfll
[21:24:05] <mathiaz> Yet another way to contribute to the Server Team :)
[21:24:06] <faulkes-> mathiaz: I should have extra hardware resources now available to put to it
[21:24:32] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great ! I've updated the wiki page to streamline the reporting process
[21:25:12] <owh> mathiaz: That's looking great. Do you think it would be useful to add that link to the Survey Announcement to encourage more helpers, or might that be counter productive?
[21:25:29] <mathiaz> owh: I'll make a separate announcement
[21:25:34] <owh> Given that we're targeting -server users.
[21:25:34] <faulkes-> mathiaz: will ServerTestingTeam be a subset of the ServerTeam for membership purposes or?
[21:25:51] <mathiaz> faulkes-: for now, there isn't any LP team or membership
[21:26:00] <mathiaz> It may be usefull at some point.
[21:26:07] <faulkes-> owh: well, I think the survey is geared more to established environments rather than test ones
[21:26:27] <mathiaz> faulkes-: correct - this is targeted at development versions.
[21:26:32] <owh> Sure, but they're the same audience I would have thought.
[21:26:43] <faulkes-> however, I see the reverse of that, in which we could bring in more people who have to support -server
[21:26:56] * faulkes- nods
[21:27:11] <owh> Hence my query :)
[21:27:28] <mathiaz> I'll send an email to -server to bring more people on board for the ServerTestingTeam
[21:27:41] <faulkes-> I think for now, we should leave it seperate and let mathiaz start
[21:28:01] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
[21:28:32] <mathiaz> Let's move on and Review Roadmap and ReportingPage.
[21:28:42] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[21:28:47] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[21:29:12] <mathiaz> So I'd like to go through the items that are on the Roadmap but haven't any status on the ReportingPage
[21:30:04] <owh> Is there a way to combine the two pages so it becomes more obvious?
[21:30:16] <owh> Or is that counter productive?
[21:30:32] <mathiaz> owh: well - I'm still trying to figure out how we can do that correctly
[21:30:47] <mathiaz> so I'm still experimenting with this
[21:31:00] <mathiaz> The ReportingPage is something new
[21:31:04] <owh> We could make a template that "encourages" correct editing.
[21:31:35] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support
[21:31:43] <mathiaz> soren: any news on that ?
[21:32:06] <soren> YEah.
[21:32:25] <soren> Um... It seems that there are a few use cases that I had not taken into account when I implemented it.
[21:32:47] <soren> Booting off of the network and having your root filesystem on iscsi for instance.
[21:33:14] <soren> So.. That's still work that probably needs to be done.
[21:33:27] <mathiaz> soren: would this be for hardy ?
[21:33:34] <mathiaz> soren: isn't that a new feature ?
[21:33:42] <soren> mathiaz: Yes. Yes, it is.
[21:34:00] <soren> mathiaz: WEll, from certain users' perspective it's a bug.
[21:34:26] <soren> I'll have to take it up with dendrobates and slangasek.
[21:35:04] <owh> mathiaz: Isn't it only a bug if someone looses functionality, aren't we talking about *new* iscsi support?
[21:35:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
[21:35:30] <owh> I mean, at present it's just "not yet supported".
[21:35:51] <mathiaz> owh: correct - this is why it needs to be discussed with the release team.
[21:36:03] <soren> owh: It's a grey area.
[21:36:08] <owh> Ah.
[21:36:14] * owh shuts up.
[21:36:14] <mathiaz> owh: we could try to get a FFexception.
[21:36:17] <soren> Just because something has never worked doesn't mean it's a feature.
[21:36:39] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
[21:36:42] <soren> Er... crap, that came out wrong.
[21:36:49] <owh> I understand, I just figured we're better off making sure that what there is is working.
[21:37:06] <mathiaz> The qa team has put up a list of bug for hardy
[21:37:08] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server
[21:37:22] <mathiaz> kirkland: did you fix the nfs bug ?
[21:37:28] <faulkes-> at least from my experience, booting from san for root fs has been around quite awhile, especially via pxe
[21:37:46] <kirkland> mathiaz: affirmative, with the help of kees, and inifinity
[21:38:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: no longer in that list ;-) woohoo
[21:38:33] <mathiaz> kirkland: great !
[21:38:38] <mathiaz> there is an ntp bug left now
[21:39:05] <owh> Isn't that just a case of changing the init.d order for ntp?
[21:39:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: I was thinking that it could be solved by similar locking
[21:39:28] <mathiaz> owh: I don't think so.
[21:40:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think it has to do with NetworkManager
[21:40:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: are the two bugs caused by the same problem
[21:40:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - that's what I think too.
[21:40:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: only distantly...
[21:40:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: both have upstart implications
[21:40:40] <mathiaz> so it's an ifup/down script problem may be.
[21:40:59] <mathiaz> ntp hasn't been designed to run on a laptop/desktop.
[21:41:20] <owh> It seems to be related to DHCP rather than NetworkManager per se, that is, the ifup/down script.
[21:42:10] <mathiaz> anyone wants to have a look at the bug ?
[21:42:29] <zul> not me
[21:42:51] <faulkes-> I wont likely be able to touch it either
[21:42:55] * soren looks up in the air
[21:43:04] <owh> Fine.
[21:43:08] * faulkes- whistles innocently, hands behind his back
[21:43:10] <owh> I'll have a squiz.
[21:43:16] <owh> Sigh.
[21:43:18] <owh> :)
[21:43:18] <kirkland> mathiaz: I don't think it's ifup/ifdown so much
[21:43:18] <kirkland> but perhaps...
[21:43:18] <kirkland> mathiaz: should I tackle that bug?
[21:43:18] <kirkland> (I hadn't been concentrating on it)
[21:43:46] <mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
[21:43:55] <owh> Damn, too slow :)
[21:44:01] <mathiaz> kirkland: too late ;) - but you can still help out owh
[21:44:16] * owh accepts any help:)
[21:44:28] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Virtualization
[21:44:30] <kirkland> ;-) ping me owh
[21:44:51] <mathiaz> soren: any news ?
[21:45:09] <soren> Yes.
[21:45:19] <soren> kvm 62 was uploaded.
[21:45:54] <soren> I've just now (within the last 47 seconds) discovered an issie with virtio_net in it which I'm working on.
[21:46:07] <soren> I've sent the corresponding updates to the kernel to the kernel team.
[21:46:19] <soren> It'll be pulled after the alpha releases.
[21:46:42] <soren> I'm also looking into some last minute virtio fun to include in the guest kernel.
[21:46:49] <soren> The paravirt clock, to be exact.
[21:46:59] <zul> sounds scarey
[21:47:06] <soren> Other htan that, I'm going into mad bug fixing mode.
[21:47:34] <soren> zul: I pretty much hooks up your guest clock to the host's ditto. And that's the end of sucky timing issues in virtual machines.
[21:47:47] <mathiaz> soren: great
[21:47:56] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Windows authentication integration
[21:48:12] <zul> soren: how well tested is it? does it report clock drifts and the like?
[21:48:33] <mathiaz> dendrobates: is there a new version likewise-open ready to be tested ?
[21:48:42] <soren> zul: That's the sort of stuff I need to check up on first.
[21:48:53] <zul> soren: yah :)
[21:48:53] <mathiaz> people started to test what's in hardy and reported bugs.
[21:49:00] <dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet. waiting on upstream.
[21:49:15] <dendrobates> mathiaz: was supposed to be today.
[21:50:04] <mathiaz> Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap.
[21:50:14] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
[21:50:23] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
[21:50:31] <zul> ebox had a ffe filed today
[21:50:54] <zul> but nothing from me
[21:51:09] <mathiaz> nealmcb: could you add an factoid for servergui ?
[21:51:19] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I've added an item about it on the Roadmap
[21:51:37] <sommer> ivoks mentioned that he's been sick for the last 10 days, but should be back soon
[21:52:22] <sommer> to work on bacula, etc
[21:53:19] <owh> Does this mean we have a meeting that actually finishes in less than an hour?
[21:53:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[21:53:42] <mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
[21:53:47] <owh> Yup
[21:53:53] <kirkland> +1
[21:53:59] <sommer> o//
[21:54:07] <owh> These early mornings are going to kill me one day :)
[21:54:56] <mathiaz> alright then. See ya next week
[21:55:02] <mathiaz> thanks all for being here.
[21:55:11] <mathiaz> And happy alpha6 testing ! :)
[21:55:23] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
[21:55:32] <owh> Thanks mathiaz
[21:55:43] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.