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(04:00:29 PM) mathiaz: so - let's get started !
(04:00:34 PM) mathiaz: #startmeeting
(04:00:35 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is mathiaz.
(04:00:35 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(04:01:09 PM) faulkes-: lead away mathiaz
(04:01:19 PM) mathiaz: Today's agenda can be found online: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
(04:02:29 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
(04:02:29 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
(04:02:46 PM) mathiaz: Previous meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080227
(04:03:16 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] forum reporting
(04:03:16 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  forum reporting
(04:03:33 PM) faulkes-: ok then
(04:03:40 PM) mathiaz: anything to add or disscuss on the forum front faulkes- ?
(04:03:47 PM) faulkes-: yes
(04:03:56 PM) mathiaz: I think you've published the code on LP
(04:04:07 PM) faulkes-: I did a complete rewrite of the code and published it to LP
(04:04:17 PM) faulkes-: https://launchpad.net/forumstats/
(04:04:38 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: great - do you have some documentation somewhere ?
(04:04:48 PM) faulkes-: it is much more exact in the nature of how it selects and adds stuff
(04:05:00 PM) faulkes-: there is a README file supplied with the source
(04:05:18 PM) faulkes-: and I have documented the source as well, it's only about 120 lines long
(04:05:30 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: great. So what's the next step ?
(04:05:50 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: do you want to add more features to it ?
(04:06:02 PM) faulkes-: the next step is linking the individual graphs and categories, to being able to see the individual posts
(04:06:07 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: or should we think about what we can do with the outcome ?
(04:06:43 PM) faulkes-: which should be fairly easy to do, I have been very busy the last week with pm course exams and taking on a new FT position
(04:07:14 PM) faulkes-: the outcome, is more a time based situation, I will also add in the ability to select by date
(04:07:44 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: ok. Seems great.
(04:07:50 PM) faulkes-: because the posts affecting something from time X to time Y, may be unrelated due to version from time Z to time L
(04:08:01 PM) owh: faulkes-: Is there a way to host the current branch so it can display results?
(04:08:37 PM) owh: As in, be "live"
(04:08:38 PM) faulkes-: that may be possible but it would require access to my database
(04:08:57 PM) faulkes-: if you want to host one yourself, you can run the code completely independent of me
(04:09:05 PM) neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
(04:09:10 PM) faulkes-: and allow it to gather stats
(04:09:20 PM) faulkes-: the requirements are listed in the README for running it
(04:09:23 PM) owh: Does the code have a means to generate a database as well?
(04:09:47 PM) faulkes-: there is sql files included in the LP branch
(04:09:53 PM) owh: Cool.
(04:10:07 PM) faulkes-: the README has instructions regarding them
(04:10:19 PM) owh: Excellent, documentation that actually helps :)
(04:10:32 PM) mathiaz: How is the classification of post done ?
(04:10:45 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: I think this is the trickiest part
(04:11:01 PM) faulkes-: classification is done via a dictionary
(04:11:11 PM) faulkes-: unfortunately, that means building the dictionary
(04:11:20 PM) faulkes-: I have included the one which is currently used
(04:11:35 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: ok - is there a way to reassign posts to a different category if they've been misclassifed ?
(04:11:49 PM) faulkes-: so, if you wanted to use the code to monitor say, Desktop forum, you would need to build your own
(04:12:11 PM) faulkes-: mathiaz: currently no, that would be an admin feature I guess, but wouldn't be hard to build in
(04:12:24 PM) faulkes-: as well as add additional categories, terms, etc..
(04:12:56 PM) owh: Going that route would then require a sort of "meta" individual, that seems like a lot of work.
(04:12:56 PM) faulkes-: right now, it is by hand, mostly for lack of time on my part to build that in but it would be a fairly straight forward excersize
(04:13:03 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: These are more features. Let's try to get something done first and see how can extract information from that.
(04:13:32 PM) mathiaz: Let's move on.
(04:13:37 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Server survey
(04:13:37 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Server survey
(04:13:56 PM) owh: That would be me.
(04:13:58 PM) faulkes-: me again I guess as nijaba is away or do you want to handle it mathiaz?
(04:14:00 PM) mathiaz: nijaba is not around.
(04:14:15 PM) faulkes-: I can go from his action email, that you updated
(04:14:22 PM) mathiaz: I've updated the ReportingPage with a status he sent me.
(04:14:39 PM) mathiaz: Anything else to add ?
(04:14:39 PM) mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
(04:15:03 PM) faulkes-: sec
(04:15:40 PM) owh: While faulkes- is looking...
(04:15:42 PM) owh: I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch which has as many contacts in it as possible, but suggestions are welcome. The intent is to use the body text as the email text.
(04:15:46 PM) owh: I tried coming up with actual press contacts where relevant, but I don't have any actual Canonical press contact.
(04:15:50 PM) owh: I'm not sure how we best ask Server Team Members to blog about the survey so it shows up on Planet Ubuntu.
(04:15:51 PM) mathiaz: It seems that the survey is too long to take.
(04:16:05 PM) owh: Yes, I'd agree with that.
(04:16:17 PM) faulkes-: well, we've only had a small sampling so far
(04:16:25 PM) faulkes-: however
(04:16:50 PM) faulkes-: we should be always reporting feature/bug requests to LP, I don't generally check the page itself
(04:16:58 PM) faulkes-: so there is some stuff there that I can work on
(04:17:14 PM) faulkes-: as for shortening the survey, I think we can do that effectively
(04:17:23 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: I've communicated with Jonathan Corbet of LWN before, I can send him a note asking if it would be possible to publicize on LWN.net
(04:17:44 PM) kirkland: no promises--he only sometimes responds to my email :-)
(04:17:46 PM) faulkes-: I will look at tuning the questions so it is faster
(04:17:56 PM) owh: kirkland: Add it to the wiki page, you don't need to give the email address if you're not comfortable with it.
(04:18:01 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: seems great - could you add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch ?
(04:18:12 PM) owh: kirkland: That way we don't hit LWN multiple times.
(04:18:52 PM) owh: faulkes-: I wonder if the survey length is a function of a poorly defined audience/spec. I'm not saying it is, I'm just wondering.
(04:19:02 PM) mathiaz: [ACTION] faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
(04:19:02 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
(04:19:07 PM) owh: faulkes-: It seems to be sprawling all over the place.
(04:19:28 PM) mathiaz: owh: faulkes-: could you coordinate with nijaba ?
(04:19:40 PM) owh: Yup
(04:19:40 PM) faulkes-: there is some logical order which needs to be done on the questions
(04:19:52 PM) faulkes-: mathiaz: yes, I will speak to nijaba
(04:19:57 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: owh: done.
(04:20:03 PM) mathiaz: owh: faulkes-: thanks -
(04:20:06 PM) mathiaz: Let's move on.
(04:20:11 PM) owh: Perhaps we can catch up afterwards faulkes- and have a chat about it.
(04:20:19 PM) faulkes-: certainly
(04:20:49 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] ServerTestingTeam
(04:20:49 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  ServerTestingTeam
(04:21:11 PM) mathiaz: So I spent some time to revamp the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages.
(04:21:27 PM) mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
(04:21:58 PM) mathiaz: The idea is to increase hardware testing for hardy.
(04:22:12 PM) mathiaz: Reporting the results is done in the wiki.
(04:22:38 PM) faulkes-: interesting, ok, I may be able to add some to that
(04:22:53 PM) mathiaz: I'll also send an email to the previous people involved in the team and ask if they can still contribute.
(04:23:10 PM) mathiaz: Anyone that has some server hardware is welcome to participate.
(04:23:30 PM) faulkes-: for those unaware of my current status, I've moved from being a consultant to a FTE job, I will be converting the current environment to -server
(04:23:34 PM) mathiaz: The idea is to download an iso and make sure the installation is successfll
(04:24:05 PM) mathiaz: Yet another way to contribute to the Server Team :)
(04:24:06 PM) faulkes-: mathiaz: I should have extra hardware resources now available to put to it
(04:24:32 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: great ! I've updated the wiki page to streamline the reporting process
(04:25:12 PM) owh: mathiaz: That's looking great. Do you think it would be useful to add that link to the Survey Announcement to encourage more helpers, or might that be counter productive?
(04:25:29 PM) mathiaz: owh: I'll make a separate announcement
(04:25:33 PM) faulkes-: mathiaz: will ServerTestingTeam be a subset of the ServerTeam for membership purposes or?
(04:25:33 PM) owh: Given that we're targeting -server users.
(04:25:51 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: for now, there isn't any LP team or membership
(04:26:00 PM) mathiaz: It may be usefull at some point.
(04:26:07 PM) faulkes-: owh: well, I think the survey is geared more to established environments rather than test ones
(04:26:27 PM) mathiaz: faulkes-: correct - this is targeted at development versions.
(04:26:32 PM) owh: Sure, but they're the same audience I would have thought.
(04:26:43 PM) faulkes-: however, I see the reverse of that, in which we could bring in more people who have to support -server
(04:26:55 PM) ***faulkes- nods
(04:27:11 PM) owh: Hence my query :)
(04:27:28 PM) mathiaz: I'll send an email to -server to bring more people on board for the ServerTestingTeam
(04:27:40 PM) faulkes-: I think for now, we should leave it seperate and let mathiaz start
(04:28:01 PM) mathiaz: [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
(04:28:01 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
(04:28:32 PM) mathiaz: Let's move on and Review Roadmap and ReportingPage.
(04:28:41 PM) mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
(04:28:47 PM) mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
(04:29:12 PM) mathiaz: So I'd like to go through the items that are on the Roadmap but haven't any status on the ReportingPage
(04:30:04 PM) owh: Is there a way to combine the two pages so it becomes more obvious?
(04:30:16 PM) owh: Or is that counter productive?
(04:30:32 PM) mathiaz: owh: well - I'm still trying to figure out how we can do that correctly
(04:30:47 PM) mathiaz: so I'm still experimenting with this
(04:31:00 PM) mathiaz: The ReportingPage is something new
(04:31:04 PM) owh: We could make a template that "encourages" correct editing.
(04:31:34 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] iscsi support
(04:31:35 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  iscsi support
(04:31:43 PM) mathiaz: soren: any news on that ?
(04:32:06 PM) soren: YEah.
(04:32:25 PM) soren: Um... It seems that there are a few use cases that I had not taken into account when I implemented it.
(04:32:46 PM) soren: Booting off of the network and having your root filesystem on iscsi for instance.
(04:33:14 PM) soren: So.. That's still work that probably needs to be done.
(04:33:27 PM) mathiaz: soren: would this be for hardy ?
(04:33:34 PM) mathiaz: soren: isn't that a new feature ?
(04:33:42 PM) soren: mathiaz: Yes. Yes, it is.
(04:34:00 PM) soren: mathiaz: WEll, from certain users' perspective it's a bug.
(04:34:26 PM) soren: I'll have to take it up with dendrobates and slangasek.
(04:35:04 PM) owh: mathiaz: Isn't it only a bug if someone looses functionality, aren't we talking about *new* iscsi support?
(04:35:20 PM) mathiaz: [ACTION] soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
(04:35:21 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
(04:35:30 PM) owh: I mean, at present it's just "not yet supported".
(04:35:50 PM) mathiaz: owh: correct - this is why it needs to be discussed with the release team.
(04:36:03 PM) soren: owh: It's a grey area.
(04:36:08 PM) owh: Ah.
(04:36:13 PM) ***owh shuts up.
(04:36:14 PM) mathiaz: owh: we could try to get a FFexception.
(04:36:17 PM) soren: Just because something has never worked doesn't mean it's a feature.
(04:36:39 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
(04:36:40 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
(04:36:42 PM) soren: Er... crap, that came out wrong.
(04:36:49 PM) owh: I understand, I just figured we're better off making sure that what there is is working.
(04:37:06 PM) mathiaz: The qa team has put up a list of bug for hardy
(04:37:07 PM) mathiaz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server
(04:37:22 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: did you fix the nfs bug ?
(04:37:27 PM) faulkes-: at least from my experience, booting from san for root fs has been around quite awhile, especially via pxe
(04:37:46 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: affirmative, with the help of kees, and inifinity
(04:38:11 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: no longer in that list ;-)  woohoo
(04:38:33 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: great !
(04:38:38 PM) mathiaz: there is an ntp bug left now
(04:39:05 PM) owh: Isn't that just a case of changing the init.d order for ntp?
(04:39:13 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: I was thinking that it could be solved by similar locking
(04:39:28 PM) mathiaz: owh: I don't think so.
(04:40:09 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: i think it has to do with NetworkManager
(04:40:12 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: are the two bugs caused by the same problem
(04:40:22 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: yes - that's what I think too.
(04:40:25 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: only distantly...
(04:40:32 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: both have upstart implications
(04:40:40 PM) mathiaz: so it's an ifup/down script problem may be.
(04:40:58 PM) mathiaz: ntp hasn't been designed to run on a laptop/desktop.
(04:41:20 PM) owh: It seems to be related to DHCP rather than NetworkManager per se, that is, the ifup/down script.
(04:42:10 PM) mathiaz: anyone wants to have a look at the bug ?
(04:42:29 PM) zul: not me
(04:42:51 PM) faulkes-: I wont likely be able to touch it either
(04:42:55 PM) ***soren looks up in the air
(04:43:04 PM) owh: Fine.
(04:43:08 PM) ***faulkes- whistles innocently, hands behind his back
(04:43:10 PM) owh: I'll have a squiz.
(04:43:16 PM) owh: Sigh.
(04:43:18 PM) owh: :)
(04:43:18 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: I don't think it's ifup/ifdown so much
(04:43:18 PM) kirkland: but perhaps...
(04:43:18 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: should I tackle that bug?
(04:43:18 PM) kirkland: (I hadn't been concentrating on it)
(04:43:46 PM) mathiaz: [ACTION] owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
(04:43:47 PM) MootBot: ACTION received:  owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
(04:44:01 PM) owh: Damn, too slow :)
(04:44:01 PM) mathiaz: kirkland: too late ;) - but you can still help out owh
(04:44:16 PM) ***owh accepts any help:)
(04:44:28 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Virtualization
(04:44:29 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Virtualization
(04:44:30 PM) kirkland: ;-)  ping me owh
(04:44:51 PM) mathiaz: soren: any news ?
(04:45:09 PM) soren: Yes.
(04:45:19 PM) soren: kvm 62 was uploaded.
(04:45:54 PM) soren: I've just now (within the last 47 seconds) discovered an issie with virtio_net in it which I'm working on.
(04:46:07 PM) soren: I've sent the corresponding updates to the kernel to the kernel team.
(04:46:19 PM) soren: It'll be pulled after the alpha releases.
(04:46:42 PM) soren: I'm also looking into some last minute virtio fun to include in the guest kernel.
(04:46:49 PM) soren: The paravirt clock, to be exact.
(04:46:59 PM) zul: sounds scarey
(04:47:06 PM) soren: Other htan that, I'm going into mad bug fixing mode.
(04:47:34 PM) soren: zul: I pretty much hooks up your guest clock to the host's ditto. And that's the end of sucky timing issues in virtual machines.
(04:47:47 PM) mathiaz: soren: great
(04:47:56 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Windows authentication integration
(04:47:57 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Windows authentication integration
(04:48:12 PM) zul: soren: how well tested is it? does it report clock drifts and the like?
(04:48:33 PM) mathiaz: dendrobates: is there a new version likewise-open ready to be tested ?
(04:48:42 PM) soren: zul: That's the sort of stuff I need to check up on first.
(04:48:53 PM) zul: soren: yah :)
(04:48:53 PM) mathiaz: people started to test what's in hardy and reported bugs.
(04:49:00 PM) dendrobates: mathiaz: not yet.  waiting on upstream.
(04:49:15 PM) dendrobates: mathiaz: was supposed to be today.
(04:50:04 PM) mathiaz: Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap.
(04:50:14 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Any other business
(04:50:14 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Any other business
(04:50:23 PM) mathiaz: anyone wants to add something ?
(04:50:31 PM) zul: ebox had a ffe filed today
(04:50:54 PM) zul: but nothing from me
(04:51:09 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: could you add an factoid for servergui ?
(04:51:19 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: I've added an item about it on the Roadmap
(04:51:36 PM) sommer: ivoks mentioned that he's been sick for the last 10 days, but should be back soon
(04:52:22 PM) sommer: to work on bacula, etc
(04:53:19 PM) owh: Does this mean we have a meeting that actually finishes in less than an hour?
(04:53:30 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
(04:53:31 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
(04:53:42 PM) mathiaz: same time, same place, next week ?
(04:53:47 PM) owh: Yup
(04:53:53 PM) kirkland: +1
(04:53:59 PM) sommer: o//
(04:54:07 PM) owh: These early mornings are going to kill me one day :)
(04:54:56 PM) mathiaz: alright then. See ya next week
(04:55:02 PM) mathiaz: thanks all for being here.
(04:55:11 PM) mathiaz: And happy alpha6 testing ! :)
(04:55:23 PM) sommer: thanks mathiaz, later all
(04:55:32 PM) owh: Thanks mathiaz
(04:55:43 PM) mathiaz: #endmeeting
(04:55:44 PM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 21:55.