Agenda
Items we will be discussing:
- Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
Specification writing - MathiasGug.
Discussion on current status of J2EESupport options - ThierryCarrez
Status of the Ubuntu Server Survey - MathiasGug
- Open Discussion
- Agree on next meeting date and time.
Minutes
Ubuntu virtualization meta package
kirkland uploaded to his PPA [1] a set of packages that helps getting started with kvm virtualization. The next step is to get them into the intrepid repository. mathiaz pointed kirkland at the NewPackages process [2].
[1]: https://launchpad.net/~kirkland/+archive [2]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
Specification writing
dendrobates stated that people who chaired a session have to write the corresponding spec now. The deadline for spec writing is Thursday, June the 5th. Specs targeted for Intrepid will be added to the Server Team Roadmap [3] and be reviewed during the Server Team meetings.
dendrobates added to check if there is already an existing blueprint registered in launchpad that could be re-used before registering a new one. If so he can update the blueprint information (such as drafter, approver, etc...).
[3]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
Discussion on current status of J2EESupport options
Koon is working on the J2EESupport spec [4]. He has listed all the available options and has started to look into Tomcat and Geronimo. These products have a modular approach where plugins can be installed to add additional components of the J2EE stack. dendrobates said that modularity in packaging is desirable.
Koon raised the question of maven, as it cannot be used to build a package the debian way: it downloads at build time all the build deps, dozens of jars from everywhere. That would require a lot of more packaging work than packaging geronimo itself.
Koon will keep working on the matrix [4] and hope to have it complete by Friday.
[4]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/J2EESupport
Front end for ubuntu-vm-builder
kirkland created a simple frontend for generating the verbose arguments ubuntu-vm-builder accepts [5]. It's javascript, so it runs in your local browser, no posting of passwords and machine configurations over the net.
There was some discussion about rewriting the page using ActiveX - it didn't get far due to a lack of knowledge in this technology.
[5]: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
Status of the Ubuntu Server Survey
nijaba reported that upstream fixed security issues raised by kees' audit of the web application. The next step is a second audit so that limesurvey can be hosted on the Ubuntu infrastructure. kees said he may be able to audit the new version by Tuesday.
owh added that he joined the ubuntu-marketing team. He is looking at ways to collaborate between the two teams. The Ubuntu Server Team survey could be the first item of cooperation. A potential date for the launch hasn't been agreed upon.
8.04.1 LTS release
zul has been tracking bugs [6] and uploading fixes to hardy-proposed. He asked for more testing.
[6]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker
Darwin Calendar Server
owh pointed out that Darwin Calendar Server is available in the intrepid repository.
Agree on next meeting date and time
There was some discussion about moving the meeting time. mathiaz will send an email to ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com with a new proposal.
Next meeting will be on Wednesday, June 4th at 21:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
Log
[22:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting [22:01] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [22:01] <dendrobates-> o/ [22:02] <mathiaz> after a three week break, we've got a couple of things to discuss. [22:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review last meeting action point [22:02] <mathiaz> last meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080507 [22:02] * nealmcb . o O (UDS was a break?) [22:02] <mathiaz> I see one point - kirkland and virtualization [22:02] <owh> ROTFL [22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we decided on their names [22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: i updated the packages in my PPA [22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: now, I'd like to see about getting them uploaded into Intrepid [22:03] * nealmcb cheers for kirkland [22:03] * kirkland bows [22:03] <ivoks> (hi all) [22:04] <mathiaz> kirkland: did you ask for feedback on ubuntu-server@ ? [22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: I did [22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM [22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: one person said thanks, he'd be using them [22:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: great - next step is to get your new package uploaded [22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-May/001493.html [22:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?highlight=(NewPackages) [22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay [22:06] <mathiaz> allright - that's all from the last meeting I think [22:07] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Specification writing [22:07] <mathiaz> so at UDS we talked a lot - now is time to write down specifications [22:07] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: who is doing what ? [22:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: I'm not sure about this as most of our discussed topics at uds hadn't blueprints registered [22:08] <lukehasnoname> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Report/Server [22:08] <dendrobates-> If you chaired a session, you should write the spec. [22:08] <lukehasnoname> for those who ahven't seen it [22:08] <dendrobates-> I will edit them as necessary [22:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok. [22:08] <dendrobates-> and do any that are left over. [22:08] <mathiaz> so the deadline for spec write in thursday next week [22:09] <ivoks> ok [22:09] <dendrobates-> just a reminder that writing a spec does not mean that it will end up in intrepid for sure. [22:10] <dendrobates-> but it is a good start. [22:10] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: I was wondering if it makes sense to have Intrepid in the name of the wiki page [22:10] <ivoks> do we need to write specs for stuff we disccused and agreed on at uds? [22:10] <mathiaz> I've gone through all specs, that are still valid [22:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: it would help [22:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: to keep track of what we're doing and implementation [22:10] <ivoks> mathiaz: ok, i'll do my part [22:11] <dendrobates-> mathiaz: sure. [22:11] <mathiaz> once the spec are written, they'll be added to the Roadmap [22:11] <mathiaz> and we'll review the progress during the server meeting [22:11] <mathiaz> ivoks: it will help wrt to freezes and so on [22:12] <ivoks> right [22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: I'd also use them to extract tasks for new contributors [22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: so that people can get started quickly [22:12] <mathiaz> if you have an idea but don't have time, write a spec [22:13] <ivoks> :) [22:13] <mathiaz> and may be someone else will pick it up and do the work :D [22:13] <dendrobates-> please check if a spec exists, before you create it, though. [22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: where ? in lp or on the wiki ? [22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: does it make sense to take over old wiki pages and refresh them ? [22:14] <dendrobates-> lp is where it matters. [22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok. [22:15] <mathiaz> if someone writes up a new wiki page for an existing blueprint in lp, dendrobates- can update the spec in lp [22:15] <mathiaz> update the drafter, etc... of the blueprint in lp [22:16] <effie_jayx> @now [22:16] <ubottu> effie_jayx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 28 2008, 21:18:12 - Current meeting: Server Team [22:16] <mathiaz> let's move on [22:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discussion on current status of J2EESupport options [22:16] <mathiaz> Koon: what's the state of j2ee ? [22:17] <Koon> ok, so I've been exploring our options [22:17] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/J2EESupport [22:17] <Koon> yes, work in progress [22:17] <Koon> I mostly checked Tomcat and Geronimo for now [22:17] <Koon> but I already have a few questions I would like to discuss [22:18] <Koon> Two of our options are "modular" targets [22:18] <Koon> a framework where you pull in plug-ins based on what you want to do [22:18] <Koon> (geronimo and GlassFish v3 do this) [22:19] <Koon> the interesting part being you can use them just as a servlet container, or pull things all the way to make a full J2EE server, whatever you need [22:19] <Koon> so a single product would allow us to cover all the types of needs [22:20] <sommer> I forget, but is glassfish v3 going to be out by intrepid? [22:21] <Koon> sommer: not really [22:21] <sommer> gotcha, just double checking [22:21] <mathiaz> Koon: have you looked at tomcat5.5 packaging ? [22:21] <Koon> is modularity something we should try to have ? [22:21] <ivoks> so, glassfish isn't really an option [22:21] <Koon> mathiaz: yes [22:21] <mathiaz> Koon: is it modular or monolitic ? [22:22] <Koon> there are a few issues with the tomcat5.5 package, nothing too complicated to fix (see wiki) [22:22] <dendrobates-> we should wait for the matrix to be finished before we try to draw any conclusions [22:22] <Koon> tomcat5.5 is just a servlet container, nothing more, nothing less [22:22] <dendrobates-> modularity sounds good though. [22:22] <Koon> dendrobates-: I have the question about maven [22:23] <Koon> it's the build system used in Geronimo and Glassfish v3 (possibly others) [22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: IMO aiming at being modular is a good thing [22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: modular => multiple binary packages [22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: you may want to have a look Zope3 also [22:23] <dendrobates-> Koon: what about maven? [22:23] <faulkes-> arguably modular == multiple binary packages ;) [22:24] <Koon> mathiaz: yes. We would ship the base, the modules + a few metapackages [22:24] <mathiaz> Koon: IIRC upstream uses lot's of smal package [22:24] <faulkes-> sematics, I know [22:24] <Koon> dendrobates-: it cannot really be used to build a package in the debian way [22:24] <faulkes-> but I agree in principle that modular is better [22:25] <Koon> dendrobates-: afaict having a deb-compliant Maven is still work in progress at debian-java [22:25] <dendrobates-> Koon: What are the technical issues with maven? [22:25] * nijaba waves (and presents excuses for being late) [22:25] <Koon> dendrobates-: maven downloads at build time all the build deps, dozens of jars from everywhere [22:26] <mathiaz> Koon: this should be put somewhere in the Spec [22:26] * faulkes- hides from nijaba in fear of his well overdue WP [22:26] <mathiaz> Koon: so that we know what work needs to be done [22:27] <Koon> dendrobates-: to use maven in the deb building, it needs to be patched to use a common local repository, and all maven plugins must be packaged as individual packages [22:27] <Koon> so that we can list them as deb build-deps [22:27] <dendrobates-> Koon: understood. [22:28] <Koon> it looks like a lot more work than packaging geronimo itself. [22:28] <Koon> last question : am I right to assume all build deps for a package targeted for Main must also be in Main ? [22:28] <mathiaz> Koon: yes [22:29] <Koon> ok [22:29] <soren> main must be self-contained. [22:29] <Koon> I'll continue to investigate options, trying to have a complete matrix by Friday [22:30] <Koon> dendrobates-: Geronimo was every reactive, provided a patch to allow OpenJDK-6 building [22:30] <dendrobates-> Koon: that is a good sign. [22:31] <Koon> ok, next item [22:31] <mathiaz> Koon: great - thanks. [22:31] <emgent> @now [22:31] <ubottu> emgent: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 28 2008, 21:33:36 - Current meeting: Server Team [22:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] front end for ubuntu-vm-builder [22:32] <mathiaz> kirkland: what have you created on your way back from UDS ? [22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: a simple frontend for generating the verbose arguments ubuntu-vm-builder accepts [22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-vm-builder.html [22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's javascript, so it runs in your local browser, no posting of passwords and machine configurations over the net [22:33] <kirkland> mathiaz: and it could give us something to work with in building vm's as a webservice [22:33] <dendrobates-> kirkland: it's a good start, thanks [22:33] <owh> kirkland: What happened to the --exec flag? [22:33] <kirkland> mathiaz: I also have python code that does the same, but requires GET/POST [22:33] <kirkland> owh: i'm accepting patches ;-) [22:33] <owh> Heh [22:33] <kirkland> owh: i have about 90% coverage of ubuntu-vm-builder's options [22:33] <owh> kirkland: I already did in the actual code :) [22:34] <nijaba> kirkland: for 0.4 that is ;) [22:34] <owh> Cool, in my spare life, I'll have a squiz. [22:34] <kirkland> nijaba: touche, yes [22:34] <kirkland> i thought a few people here might find it useful [22:34] <ScottK2> kirkland: I think I know who needs to work on our config editor for deploying different server flavors ... [22:34] <kirkland> and figured i'd talk with soren more about what his vision is on a front end in the future [22:35] * owh wrote a local little script for the same effect, never thought to share it. [22:35] * nijaba hugs kirkland as he find it an extremely good start [22:35] <kirkland> thanks, nijaba [22:36] <kirkland> you can wget the html and run it locally, as file:///tmp/ubuntu-vm-builder.html as well... as i said, no webserver required [22:36] <owh> Nice. [22:36] <zul> javascript needs to be turned on though :) [22:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: that's all. [22:37] <nijaba> zul: heh, I'm sure we can do a version in flash just for you [22:37] <owh> Yuk [22:37] * ScottK2 hides his eyes. [22:37] <kirkland> nijaba: ActiveX! [22:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: great ! [22:38] * faulkes- agrees with kirkland [22:38] <zul> nijaba: ouch you are making my brain freeze [22:38] <faulkes-> ActiveX is definitely the way to go [22:38] <Koon> faulkes-: it has always been [22:38] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Status of the Ubuntu Server Survey [22:38] <mathiaz> owh: what's the state of this ? [22:38] <nijaba> good news on that front [22:39] <nijaba> limesurvey just informed me that they fixed the security issues kees found [22:39] * owh has comments, but will wait until nijaba is done. [22:39] <nijaba> so it should, in theory, be suitable for usage in the dc [22:39] <nijaba> but we need a counter verification by kees first [22:40] <owh> How far along is that? [22:40] <nijaba> that -vv [22:41] <owh> The verification. [22:41] <owh> Or does kees need be asked? [22:41] <nijaba> well, that really depends on kees load, I can't predict [22:41] <kees> hello! (sorry, I'm still lagging behind reality -- conf + weekend + sick == eeeek) [22:41] * owh sends a cup of hot Milo to kees. [22:41] <kees> :):) [22:42] <nijaba> question was; when could you be able to check limesurvey again [22:42] <nijaba> as limesurvey says they fixed the issues you found [22:42] <kees> re-checks are usually easier and faster. given my current load, though, I don't think I can get to it this week. [22:42] <kees> perhaps early next week? tuesday maybe? [22:42] <owh> Can we book an appointment :) [22:42] <kees> heh [22:43] <kees> if only all security issues booked appointments. :) [22:43] <owh> Ah, we're not an issue, we're an audit :) [22:43] <owh> So, if Tuesday happens, then next meeting we should be pretty close then? [22:43] <nijaba> but issues for stuff in main take precedence, obviously, to the audits [22:44] <kees> very true, but my load tends to alternate depending on surprises. ;) Anyway, let's say I'll have you something by EOD on tuesday. [22:44] * nijaba thanks kees in advance [22:44] <owh> +1 [22:44] * kees hugs owh and nijaba [22:44] <nijaba> then I need to finalize my package for it, and we a re done [22:45] <owh> Well on that note, let me add my two cents. [22:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: package ? it's not part of the archive yet ? [22:45] <owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server. [22:45] <nijaba> please [22:45] <owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server. [22:45] <owh> crap [22:45] <owh> I joined because I felt that it would be beneficial for ubuntu-server to have a representation within marketing and because I have some personal marketing ideas for my company with respect to Ubuntu. [22:45] <owh> I've also updated the embargo date on the proposed survey press release, that is, removed the April 2008 date reference and was hoping that we would come to a release schedule or plan that I could report back to ubuntu-marketing as an example of how u-s could work with u-m. [22:46] <owh> Is there additional work we could do before we spring our survey on the world? [22:46] <mathiaz> owh: could some of the task be done in parallel ? [22:46] <nijaba> that would make sense [22:46] <owh> mathiaz: I don't understand hour question. [22:46] <owh> s/h/y/ [22:46] <mathiaz> owh: hm.. let me rephrase [22:47] <mathiaz> owh: how could u-m help us in the survey ? [22:47] <mathiaz> owh: if they have other ideas or can help on the press release text, that can be done while we're waiting for kees audit [22:48] <owh> mathiaz: Well, right now I think that they might have additional contacts. It appears that they are revitalising after a hiatus. I agree with the latter points. I'll start the ball running after this meeting for that. [22:48] <mathiaz> owh: refining the list of communication channels to announce the survey can also be done at the same time [22:48] <santiago-pgsql> date [22:48] <owh> Yes [22:48] <owh> santiago-pgsql: That will depend on nijaba and kees. [22:49] <owh> It may also depend on other releases, but I'm (not yet) aware of those. [22:49] <owh> How about we aim for June 15 - picked out of a hat. [22:49] <mathiaz> owh: well we don't know when the audit will be done [22:50] <mathiaz> owh: I wouldn't pick a date [22:50] <owh> That's fine by me, but our time-line is slipping if we want to use the data for our next release. [22:50] <nijaba> let's pick a date the day we have the ful stuff running in the dc... [22:50] <owh> Cool [22:51] <nijaba> owh: me too, but it would be bad to announce something that is not ready [22:51] <mathiaz> owh: anything else to add on this front ? [22:51] <owh> nijaba: I'll use the intervening time to sharpen up the release and release process. All good. [22:51] <owh> mathiaz: Nope, I'm done. [22:52] <mathiaz> owh: great - I'm eager to see how we can collaborate with the ubuntu-marketing team [22:52] <lukehasnoname> Hey guys, I gotta jet, workday is over. I assume this log will be posted on wiki, so at your convenience, "What, if any, progress is being made on having some sort of GUI/web-based frontend admin/monitor for server services? What was discussed at UDS about this?" [22:52] * nijaba nods [22:52] <owh> mathiaz: You and me both. [22:52] <lukehasnoname> seeya next Wed [22:52] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business [22:53] <mathiaz> anything else to add ? [22:53] <zul> yes just one [22:53] <zul> 8.04.1 is coming out in early july I encourage people to test out server related SRUs they can be found in the wiki [22:53] <ivoks> right [22:54] <owh> In brief answer to lukehasnoname, kirkland and I are still working on the status for init.d scripts. We've found some bugs thanks to a discussion yesterday with lamont. I've committed to making some patches and a bug report. You can add it as an action point. [22:54] <nijaba> tomorrow is the deadline for bugs picked for it right? [22:54] <dendrobates-> Howard posted this to openldap-devel about uds: http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200805/msg00087.html [22:54] <soren> zul: Early June? The release schedule says July? [22:55] <zul> I said early July didnt I? [22:55] <nijaba> July 3rd [22:55] <soren> zul: Wow.. [22:55] <soren> zul: Yes, you did. [22:55] * soren puts down the crack pipe [22:56] <owh> Also, the Intrepid Report shown at the beginning of the meeting shows comments about calendar servers. I've been working with Jo Erlend Schinstad on docs for Darwin Calendar Server and it has now been packaged for Intrepid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CalendarServer and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/182591 [22:56] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 182591 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Calendar Server" [Wishlist,Fix released] [22:56] <Koon> soren: you've been doing too much support in #ubuntu-virt [22:56] <zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker please test the ones marked needs testing [22:57] <soren> Koon: Feel like taking over? :) [22:57] <Koon> soren: nobody could replace you, you know that :) [22:57] <zul> owh: really wow! [22:57] <nijaba> double wow [22:57] <ivoks> umm [22:57] * owh takes no credit for the packaging. [22:57] <ivoks> on this list, one can't really tell if these are hardy or dapper sru [22:58] * owh just wrote the docs and seconded the packaging request :) [22:58] <zul> ivoks: they are all for hardy [22:58] <ivoks> maybe we should add 'version' column? [22:58] <mathiaz> owh: any plans to move relevant bits of the how-to to help.ubuntu.com ? [22:58] <zul> ivoks: but yeah I can do that [22:58] <ivoks> zul: including openldap2.3? [22:59] <owh> mathiaz: Well, most of the howto should become obsolete once I've had a moment to test the package. [22:59] <ivoks> hardy has 2.4 :) [22:59] <zul> ivoks: ill fix that [22:59] <owh> mathiaz: But given that I wasn't at UDS, this was my opportunity to point at DCS :) [23:00] <mathiaz> owh: great! - thanks for the heads up [23:00] <mathiaz> owh: I'm sure zul will appreciate this [23:00] <mathiaz> Time to wrap up [23:00] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time [23:00] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ? [23:00] <owh> +1 [23:01] <soren> You bet. [23:01] <zul> can we make it an hour earlier if possible [23:01] <ivoks> zul: +1 [23:01] <Koon> zul: +1 [23:01] <owh> Uhm, that would be 4 am for me :( [23:02] <kirkland> +1 [23:02] * owh is in a dressing gown with a hot cup of coffee :) [23:02] <mathiaz> could we make it 4 hours earlier instead ? [23:02] <kirkland> oh, sorry, i wasn't +1'ing the one hour earlier [23:02] <mathiaz> that would be 17:00 UTC [23:02] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm okay with that [23:02] <owh> 1am, hmm, that's even worse mathiaz. [23:03] <ivoks> owh: well, it's midnight here now :D [23:03] <Koon> 16:00 UTC ? [23:03] <owh> Well, if there is a majority for a different time, I'll turn up when it happens. I might not be handing out Milo, but I'll be there. [23:04] <ivoks> it's really hard to decide; at this time my brain doesn't function very well, but at 16UTC i might not even make it :/ [23:04] <owh> So far it seems that 1 hour earlier is a better deal for many. [23:04] <owh> The ubuntu-marketing team has a calculator. I'll find the URL. === m13 is now known as m1r [23:05] <owh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings [23:05] <owh> You all get to vote :) [23:05] <mathiaz> well - someone will always be screwed [23:05] <ivoks> right [23:05] <mathiaz> ok - so I'll send an email to u-server with a new proposal [23:05] <owh> mathiaz: I recon, propose a time and ask again. [23:05] <dendrobates-> mathiaz: didn't you post this time to the ml and decide it was best? [23:06] <ivoks> let's just keep it as is [23:06] <mathiaz> for a new time - need to check with the calendar [23:06] <mathiaz> and for next week, same time, same place [23:06] <sommer> works for me :) [23:06] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: yes - that was before owh was attending meeting at 5 AM for him [23:06] <nijaba> thanks mathiaz [23:06] <dendrobates-> ouch [23:07] <owh> I'm cool with 5am, just not so much 4am. [23:07] * Koon waves goodnight to everyone [23:07] <mathiaz> all right - thanks all [23:07] <dendrobates-> bye [23:07] <owh> Thanks mathiaz [23:07] <mathiaz> #endmeeting [23:07] <owh> Later all. [23:07] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all [23:07] <ivoks> bye [23:09] <kirkland> bye