20090616

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
  • Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

  • Discuss packages that require kernel modules of the same version as userland tools - ivoks
  • Open Discussion.
  • Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

Merges

mathiaz reminded that there was a list of merges that look easy on the Ubuntu Server team Roadmap. dholbach mentioned the sponsoring list which has a couple of packages that may be interesting to Ubuntu Server team members.

Heartbeat in Karmic

ivoks gave a brief overview of the state of the Cluster Stack in Ubuntu Karmic. The heartbeat package will be demoted to universe once pacemaker gets compiled with corosync and openais 1.0. Version 1.0 of corosync and openais should be released in the next two weeks by upstream. He also mentioned that rhcs would also be demoted to universe once pacemaker has been promoted to main. Most of the packages are available for testing from the ubuntu-ha PPA.

DRBD

ivoks proposed the idea of using DKMS to handle DRBD. This would help in backporting new versions of DRBD to stable releases (in a similar way that kirkland is using DKMS to provide a kvm backport to hardy).

ACTION: ivoks to send an email to -server and -kernel about turning drbd into a dkms based module

Hadoop packaging

ivoks reported that he received emails showing interest in having hadoop available in Ubuntu. mathiaz asked whether there were some debian packages already available somewhere - ivoks pointed to the Cloudera repository. More investigation is required.

ACTION: ttx to look at Cloudera hadoop debian packages

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, June 23rd at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:07] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:07] <ttx> o/
[16:07] <sommer> yo
[16:07] <mathiaz> Today's exciting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:07] <mathiaz> Last week minutes:
[16:07] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090609
[16:08] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
[16:08] <mathiaz> so I've updated the list of easy-merges for the ubuntu-server team
[16:08] <mathiaz> it's on the Roadmap
[16:08] <mathiaz> Have people found this list useful?
[16:08] <ivoks> iirc, amavisd-new is on that list
[16:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: yes
[16:09] <ivoks> merge diff for it was reported before uds
[16:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: bug number?
[16:09] <ivoks> a sec
[16:09] <ivoks> bug #379979
[16:09] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 379979 in amavisd-new "Please merge amavisd-new (1:2.6.3-3) from debian unstable(main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379979
[16:10]  * ivoks hides :)
[16:10] <dholbach> there's a few server related packages on here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[16:10] <dholbach> might be worth checking that before doing a merge :-)
[16:11] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - I've updated the wiki page
[16:11] <mathiaz> ivoks: to list the bug number
[16:11] <mathiaz> dholbach: hm - I have to check this list too
[16:12] <mathiaz> dholbach: is there a way to filter by packages?
[16:12] <dholbach> mathiaz: I'm afraid, not yet, no
[16:12] <mathiaz> dholbach: hm ok.
[16:12] <dholbach> but we need to get the list down to 0 anyway, which would help with scanning it
[16:13] <mathiaz> dholbach: right - the list isn't too long so I don't think filtering is necessary for now
[16:13] <dholbach> rock on!
[16:13] <dholbach> mathiaz: please poke all server people about it :-)
[16:13] <mathiaz> dholbach: but when any lists gets too long finding filters to narrow it down helps a lot
[16:13]  * dholbach shuts up now
[16:13] <ivoks> i'll look at universe packages
[16:14] <mathiaz> ivoks: awesome. Thansk.
[16:15] <mathiaz> The list of merges has slightly shrunk from last week
[16:15] <mathiaz> However there is still a long list of packages waiting to be merged in karmic.
[16:15] <mathiaz> Merge-O-Matic is there to help out: https://merges.ubuntu.com
[16:16] <mathiaz> Any questions related to merges?
[16:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Heartbeat 2.99 in Karmic
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Heartbeat 2.99 in Karmic
[16:17] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx isn't around
[16:17] <ivoks> i'm reading the log...
[16:17] <mathiaz> ivoks: any insight on the ACTIONS from last week?
[16:17] <ivoks> yeah... well, heartbeat 2.99 just shares the name with previous versions of heartbeat
[16:17] <mathiaz> I haven't seen a call for testing for heartbeat related packages in his PPA
[16:18] <ivoks> they are almost completly different things
[16:18] <ivoks> heartbeat 2.99 doesn't work as a standalone app
[16:18] <ivoks> it's being utilized by pacemaker
[16:18] <ivoks> and ubuntu-ha decided that pacemaker-openais is the way to go
[16:18] <mathiaz> ivoks: right.
[16:18] <ivoks> still, -heartbeat version of pacemaker will be provided in universe
[16:18] <ivoks> without any support
[16:18] <mathiaz> ivoks: is this the same solution as the one adopted by debian?
[16:19] <ivoks> since heartbeat is dead project
[16:19] <ivoks> mathiaz: yes, i contact debian devs daily
[16:19] <ivoks> and one of them is member of ubuntu-ha
[16:19] <mathiaz> ivoks: great - how is their testing in experimental going?
[16:19] <ivoks> some upstream people are also members of ubuntu-ha
[16:20] <ivoks> they are doing new packages of openais
[16:20] <ivoks> and corosync and, we are helping with packaging
[16:21] <ivoks> we've been supplied with debian/ dirs from upstream
[16:21] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - so the plan is to replace heartbeat with openais+corosync+pacemaker?
[16:21] <ivoks> mathiaz: no, it's very complicated :)
[16:21] <ivoks> mathiaz: at the moment corosync and openais aren't API stable
[16:22] <zul> is ubuntu-ha going to be supporting rhcs as well?
[16:22] <ivoks> so, redhat cluster suite 3.0rcX depends on corosync and openais with the same timestamp
[16:22] <mathiaz> ivoks: is there a wiki page to outline the problem and the proposed solution?
[16:22] <ivoks> zul: plan is to degrade rhcs to universe
[16:22] <zul> ivoks: excelent
[16:23] <ivoks> mathiaz: i've sent an email to ubuntu-ha mailing list, but i could do a wiki page with some clearification
[16:23] <ivoks> but, the point is...
[16:23] <ivoks> corosync and openais should get 1.0 release in next 2 weeks
[16:23] <nijaba> ivoks: and upgrade pacemaker and friend to main?
[16:23] <ivoks> then pacemaker will be ported to those versions
[16:23] <ivoks> nijaba: yes
[16:23] <nijaba> ivoks: way cool, thanks
[16:24] <ivoks> linux cluster stack became joint effort of all distros and vendors
[16:24] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - does this mean everything should be ready by FeatureFreeze?
[16:24] <ivoks> mathiaz: it depends on upstream
[16:24] <mathiaz> ivoks: which is end of august
[16:25] <ivoks> i would suggest keeping rhcs in main and in good shape untils pacemaker gets compiled with corosync/openais 1.0
[16:25] <ivoks> then do the switch
[16:25] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - so if you could write up a short wiki page with the different issues
[16:25] <ivoks> basicaly, atm ubuntu-ha needs to suport both platforms
[16:25] <mathiaz> ivoks: so that we know we are and where we're heading at
[16:25] <ivoks> sure
[16:26] <mathiaz> ivoks: it doesn't need to be a full blown spec
[16:26] <ivoks> i know, but spec should clearify this
[16:26] <ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack
[16:26] <mathiaz> ivoks: just a list of packages that should be moved to main, an small overview of the new architecture, and what are the blocker for now
[16:27] <mathiaz> ivoks: great that's a good start
[16:28] <mathiaz> anything else related to the Cluster stack and HA?
[16:28] <ivoks> testing packages are on ubuntu-ha ppa :)
[16:29] <zul> ivoks: does heartbeat need to be updated in the kernel again?
[16:29] <ivoks> zul: kernel? no
[16:29] <ivoks> forget heartbeat
[16:29] <ivoks> it's dead
[16:29] <zul> ivoks: okies
[16:29] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
[16:30] <mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for taking care of the cluster stack in Ubuntu and cooperating with the rest of the distros
[16:30] <ttx> ivoks: if you forget your heartbeat, you may become dead as well.
[16:30] <mathiaz> That's all I had from last week meetings
[16:31] <mathiaz> anything else to add related to last week discussions?
=== jdo_ is now known as jdobrien
[16:31] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on then
[16:32] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] kernel modules and userspace tools synchronisation
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  kernel modules and userspace tools synchronisation
[16:32] <ivoks> right...
[16:32] <mathiaz> ivoks: are you talking about drbd and iscsi?
[16:32] <ivoks> kvm, everything...
[16:32] <ivoks> providing new version of drbd, for example, is hard
[16:32] <ivoks> cause we have to upload new kernel
[16:33] <ivoks> i was thinking about dkms
[16:33] <ivoks> would it be a problem to utilize dkms as a default way for those kind of things?
[16:33] <mathiaz> kirkland: what's your take on that?
[16:33] <ivoks> in case of drbd, it would help a lot since i would have to sync drbd source in kernel and in userspace tools
[16:33] <zul> ivoks: dkms probably wouldnt be a problem for drbd
[16:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: I know you've used dkms for kvm to provide a backport to hardy
[16:34] <mathiaz> ivoks: how hard is it now to get a new version of drbd in the kernel?
[16:34] <ivoks> we have to upload new kernel
[16:34] <ivoks> and new userspace at the same time
[16:35] <ivoks> probably the same as kvm
[16:35] <mathiaz> ivoks: also IIRC drbd will be included into the mainline kernel soon
[16:35] <ivoks> well, 'soon' :)
[16:35] <ivoks> i don't expect it to be there before 10.04
[16:35] <mathiaz> ivoks: is the issue that the transition needs to be tracked
[16:36] <ivoks> transition?
[16:36] <mathiaz> ivoks: or that sometimes the kernel team updates the drbd module and that userspace is broken
[16:36] <ivoks> that happens too, but only during development
[16:36] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - by transition I mean that both kernel and userspace have to be in sync
[16:36] <ivoks> it would like to provide ppa for drbd
[16:36] <ivoks> where users would get newer versions of drbd
[16:36] <ivoks> wich otherwise wouldn't get into -updates
[16:37] <mathiaz> ivoks: that's a good plan - but we also need to take care of the stable release
[16:37] <mathiaz> ivoks: the primary goal is to get a version of drbd that works in stable releases
[16:37] <ivoks> of course
[16:37] <ivoks> but SRU won't be accepted
[16:37] <mathiaz> ivoks: PPA can be a good options for backports ( kirkland does something similar with kvm)
[16:37] <ivoks> cause new drbds bring only new functionality
[16:38] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - so a PPA seems a good option
[16:38] <ivoks> but, let's look fruther than drbd
[16:38] <ivoks> that's just an example
[16:38] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - kvm doesn't really fall in the same category IIRC
[16:39] <mathiaz> ivoks: as there isn't such a strong dependency between kernel and userspace
[16:39] <mathiaz> ivoks: the other module that I know of is open-iscsi
[16:39] <mathiaz> ivoks: apparmor is also similar
[16:40] <ivoks> well, is apparmor a module or built-in?
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: it's build-in now
[16:40] <ivoks> built-in
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: but there is version dependency on the parser
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: IIRC you can use an old parser to load profile into a new kernel
[16:41] <mathiaz> ivoks: this is where things tend to break in open-iscsi and drbd too
[16:41] <ivoks> well, my concern is drbd
[16:41] <mathiaz> ivoks: right
[16:41] <ivoks> i think we could get more out of it
[16:41] <mathiaz> ivoks: so what's the current process to update drbd in the development release?
[16:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: send a git pull to the kernel team
[16:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: 1. send a git pull to the kernel team
[16:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: 2. wait for the new kernel to be uploaded
[16:42] <ivoks> as it turns out, they pull it automaticaly
[16:42] <ivoks> so, i never send them a patch
[16:42] <ivoks> they just do it
[16:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: 3. then upload the matching userspace version
[16:42] <ivoks> and then we keep up with userspace
[16:42] <ivoks> right
[16:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: how do you keep up with userspace? manually?
[16:43] <ivoks> yes
[16:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: just by change you happen to notice there is a new drbd module?
[16:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: just by chance you happen to notice there is a new drbd module?
[16:43] <ivoks> i look from time to time what's in kernel
[16:43] <ivoks> and atm there's the latest version
[16:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: that drbd is broken *again* and you upload a new userspace version
[16:43] <ivoks> i also know when drbd releases new version
[16:44] <ivoks> mathiaz: that never happened
[16:44] <ivoks> drbd has slow release cycle
[16:44] <ivoks> mostly kernel team does the inital pull
[16:44] <ivoks> and then i send patches for newer version, if any
[16:45] <ivoks> wait for new kernel, and then rebuild userspace
[16:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - so is there any improvement that could be made for handling drbd in the development release?
[16:45] <ivoks> dkms :)
[16:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: or is wait for new kernel, rebuild userspace a good enough process?
[16:45] <ivoks> dkms would make me happier man; i would have to look only on one file in kernel git
[16:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: with dkms you'd have control over the kernel module *and* the userspace at the same time
[16:46] <ivoks> yes
[16:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - I understand the advantage of dkms for backports
[16:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: I'm trying to figure out whether it would be usefull to handle stable releases as well
[16:46] <ivoks> well, desktop already does it
[16:47] <ivoks> for ati/nvidia stuff, iirc
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - so it seems that it could be a good option
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: the next step would be to talk to the kernel team
[16:47] <ivoks> kvm-source in jaunty depends on dkms
[16:47] <ivoks> of course
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: and ask them what they think about it
[16:47] <ivoks> i planed to send an email to -server and -kernel
[16:47] <ivoks> but it was better to discuss it here first
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: you may also talk to kirkland to see how he built the dkms version of kvm for hardy
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: great.
[16:48] <kirkland> mathiaz: sorry, stepped away, back now
[16:48] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to send an email to -server and -kernel about turning drbd into a dkms based module
[16:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to send an email to -server and -kernel about turning drbd into a dkms based module
[16:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: that's ok - I think that ivoks would like to talk to you later
[16:49] <kirkland> mathiaz: ivoks: cool
[16:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: about dkms and kvm
[16:50] <mathiaz> let's move on if there is nothing else to this topic (drbd)
[16:50] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[16:50] <mathiaz> Anything else to add?
[16:52] <ivoks> anyone interested in hadoop packaging? :)
[16:52] <ttx> ivoks: :)
[16:53] <ttx> ivoks: I can tell soren is interested in having it packaged, but that doesn't really help you.
[16:53] <ivoks> hehehe
[16:53] <ivoks> i got couple of emails that people are interested... why does everybody looks at me first? :)
=== MaWaLe is now known as MosquitoOo
[16:53] <ivoks> bed inglish
[16:54] <sommer> cause you only have one shoe on? :)
[16:54] <mathiaz> ivoks: are there some packages already? is there an ITP for it?
[16:54] <ivoks> http://cloudera.com/hadoop-deb
[16:54] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://cloudera.com/hadoop-deb
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: so these packages could be a starting point
[16:55] <ivoks> i haven't looked at them
[16:55] <ivoks> so i would say 'big maybe'
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: has someone tried to build them on karmic and pushed them to a PPA
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: ?
[16:56] <ivoks> mathiaz: all hadoop packages i've seen were binary files, no source
[16:56] <ivoks> maybe these aren't...
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: oh well - that doesn't help at all then
[16:56] <ttx> mathiaz: and they might be FHS-adverse as well
[16:56] <ivoks> but i won't judge anyone, until i look at them
[16:57] <ivoks> ttx: well, looking at the link
[16:57] <ttx> ivoks: I'll have a look at them, maybe tomorrow
[16:57] <ivoks> Hadoop wrapper script                  /usr/bin/hadoop
[16:57] <ivoks>  Hadoop Jar and Library Files           /usr/lib/hadoop
[16:57] <ivoks> ttx: great
[16:57] <ivoks> it's a cloud thing, you guys should be interested in that :D
[16:57] <ttx> :P
[16:58] <ttx> It's prio 1 on my CrackOfTheDay list
[16:58] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx to look at cloudera hadoop debian packages
[16:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to look at cloudera hadoop debian packages
[16:58] <ttx> argh :)
[16:58] <ivoks> ttx: hahaha nailed
[16:58] <mathiaz> let's move on and wrap up
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
[16:59] <ivoks> sure
[16:59] <ttx> wfm
[17:00] <sommer> :)
[17:00] <mathiaz> awesome then
[17:00] <mathiaz> thanks for attending and see you all
[17:00] <mathiaz> same time, same place, next week
[17:00] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.

MeetingLogs/Server/20090616 (last edited 2009-06-16 20:23:41 by mathiaz)