20090623

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
  • Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

  • Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd - nijaba
  • Open Discussion.
  • Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

DRBD

ivoks send an email with his proposal to move the DRBD module out of the kernel tree and use DKMS instead. He also started to work on new drbd packages to use dkms.

ACTION: ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms

Hadoop packaging

ttx looked into the cloudera debian packages. He reported that the main issue was that it built hadoop from source but that the source contained binary JARs. These JAR must first be packaged separately.

The list of projects to be packaged are:

  • jets3t
  • kfs
  • xmlenc
  • JavaXMLBuilder
  • commons-cli: version 2.0

All of the existing packaging work is under the ASL-2 license. The first step to move things forward is to package the dependencies listed above.

ACTION: ttx to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page.

Merges

mathiaz reminded that the list of outstanding merges in main and universe is shrinking however there are still a lot of packages left. More help in merging packages is welcome.

Asterisk in Karmic

stgraber reported that the latest stable release of asterisk (1.4) had been packaged with dkms and was available from a PPA. However it was noted that version 1.6 was available from unstable. mathiaz asked which version should be targeted for karmic. The PPA is the latest stable release (1.4), Debian unstable has asterisk's next release 1.6. More information is needed from the Debian VOIP maintainer team (wrt to supporting dkms) as well as the upstream Asterisk team.

ACTION: jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic

Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd

nijaba reported that the 7 lines of legal warning in motd could be displayed only once per admin user. kirkland has some code to handle that situation. nijaba suggested that given the reclaimed extra space, and in order to provide visibility to new or important features in Ubuntu Server Edition, we could add an ubuntu-tips package, installed by default, that would randomly display 2 lines of text at the end of the motd coming from a list of tips placed in a given directory.

There was some discussion about whether this should be done by default. The content of the tips was also mentioned: wiki page, package of the day, fortunes-debian-hints package. The next step would be to come up with a list of tips that are relevant. Implementation of the integration in Ubuntu Server can be discussed afterwards.

ACTION: nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.

ACTION: to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, June 30th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <mathiaz> Last week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090616
[16:02] <zul> heyllo
[16:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] DRBD
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  DRBD
[16:02] <mathiaz> I think I saw ivoks email about using dkms for drbd
[16:03] <nijaba> o/
[16:03] <mathiaz> I don't remember if there was any reply
[16:03] <zul> on the kernel list there was, they are fine with it moving to dkms
[16:04] <mathiaz> right - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006067.html
[16:04] <mathiaz> ok: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006121.html
[16:05] <mathiaz> ^^ so it seems that ivoks is working on a dkms version of drbd
[16:05] <mathiaz> anything else to report on the DRBD front
[16:05] <mathiaz> ?
[16:05]  * RoAkSoAx says hello
[16:05] <zul> not that I know of
[16:06] <mathiaz> ivoks isn't around so he can't give an update on his packaging work
[16:06] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
[16:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Hadoop packaging
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hadoop packaging
[16:06] <mathiaz> ttx_: ^^
[16:07] <ttx_> o/
[16:07] <mathiaz> ttx_: did you have sometime to look at the hadoop packages?
[16:07] <ttx_> Yes. Let me gather my notes
[16:08] <ttx_> Looking at their source package, the main issue is that it builds hadoop from source but source contains binary JARs
[16:08] <ttx_> (that are used at compile-time and then copied to the binary packages)
[16:08] <ttx_> In order to be debian-compliant those JARs first need to be packaged separately, and then hadoop must properly build-depend and runtime-depend on them.
[16:08] <ttx_> that's a classic issue with java libraries. usually they build from "source and other binary jars"
[16:09] <ttx_> There are a few other minor issues with the packaging
[16:09] <mathiaz> ttx_: is there a process to fix this "classic" issue?
[16:09] <ttx_> Like a cloudera-specific patchsystem, Hard dependency on sun-java6-*
[16:09] <ttx_> mathiaz: yes, package and package again
[16:10] <ttx_> mathiaz: Basically you map all the missing deps and start pumping out packages
[16:10] <mathiaz> ttx_: do you have list of jars that should be packaged separatly?
[16:10] <mathiaz> ttx_: do you have a list of these missing deps?
[16:10] <ttx_> jets3t kfs xmlenc JavaXMLBuilder
[16:11] <ttx_> also they want commons-cli 2.0 -> we have 1.1
[16:11] <ttx_> so that needs to be doublechecked for compat
[16:11] <ttx_> if not compatible, add commons-cli-2.0 to the mix
[16:11] <mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so the first step to move things forward would be to package these libraries
[16:11] <ttx_> note that the dependency analysis was made from Hadoop project
[16:12] <ttx_> while the packaging issues were done by looking at Cloudera packaging
[16:12] <ttx_> and Hadoop-Cloudera might bring some other deps
[16:12] <ttx_> since it's Hadoop++
[16:12] <mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the cloudera packaging bits?
[16:12] <mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the Hadoop-Cloudera?
[16:13] <ttx_> I think it's ASL-2, let me doublecheck
[16:14] <ttx_> Hard to tell from the packaging, patch is simply shipped as uuencode in debian/
[16:14] <ttx_> yes, ASL-2
[16:14] <mathiaz> ttx_: and the rest of the debian/ content is covered by ASL-2?
[16:15] <ttx_> "This distribution is Copyright 2009, Cloudera, Inc. and is licensed under
[16:15] <ttx_> the Apache 2.0 License as above. See http://cloudera.com/distribution"
[16:15] <mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so that means the packaging work could be based on cloudera packages.
[16:15] <ttx_> mathiaz: sure. It might even be done in collaboration with Cloudera
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: could you write down your notes in a wiki page (is there a spec?) and flush out the first steps to be taken to move things forward?
[16:16] <ttx_> mathiaz: I fear I won't have time to drive this. But I can shove my notes in a wikipage
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-hadoop
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: sure - your notes are enough
[16:17] <ttx_> ok, action me on tis
[16:17] <mathiaz> ttx_: if someone wants to help out, they will know where to start
[16:17] <ttx_> this, even
[16:17] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
[16:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
[16:18] <mathiaz> Anything else related hadoop?
[16:18] <ttx_> nothing from me
[16:19] <mathiaz> great - let's move on  then
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
[16:20] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
[16:20] <mathiaz> We're still merging packages from Debian
[16:20] <mathiaz> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
[16:20] <mathiaz> ^^ shows 68 outstanding merges as of now
[16:21] <mathiaz> while https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html lists 144 outsanding merges
[16:21] <mathiaz> so there is still some work to be done on that front
[16:21] <mathiaz> help is welcome
[16:22] <mjeanson> I could give a hand, if there is something specific to be done
[16:22] <mathiaz> mjeanson: I usually publish a list of easy-merges to be done
[16:22] <mathiaz> mjeanson: on the ServerTeam roadmap
[16:22] <jmdault> mathiaz: I'd like to help on Asterisk, but I'm new to ServerTeam
[16:22] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:22] <alex_muntada> I think that vsftpd and amavisd-new have been already merged
[16:23] <stgraber> jmdault as done a package of the latest stable release of asterisk (!= 1.6) using dkms
[16:23] <alex_muntada> asterisk is still pending, AFAICS
[16:23] <stgraber> it's currently in our PPA
[16:23] <mathiaz> alex_muntada: if so, feel free to update the wiki page
[16:23] <jmdault> I'm not sure about the best Asterisk version though
[16:23] <stgraber> that could be adapted to 1.6 I guess if we want to ship 1.6
[16:24] <jmdault> The official "stable" Asterisk version is 1.4
[16:24] <mathiaz> what's the current version of asterisk in debian?
[16:24] <jmdault> Debian has 1.4.21 version (OLD!)
[16:24] <stgraber> 1.6 recently reached unstable
[16:24] <jmdault> and 1.6.1 (unstable)
[16:24] <mathiaz> ok - so we're interested in the version in unstable
[16:24] <mathiaz> what's the difference between unstable and the PPA version?
[16:25] <jmdault> And Debian Asterisk 1.6 has no support for MySQL, mp3, oh323...
[16:25] <stgraber> the PPA is the latest stable release (1.4), unstable has asterisk's next release 1.6
[16:25] <jmdault> mathiaz: the PPA version is an updated version of the stable release
[16:25] <jmdault> I also packaged the Asterisk Gui
[16:26] <jmdault> and made DKMS modules for the drivers (instead of debian's module-assistant)
[16:27] <jmdault> It's made to help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
[16:28] <mathiaz> jmdault: ok - are you in touch with the Debian maintainer team?
[16:28] <mathiaz> jmdault: what's their position on using dkms?
[16:29] <jmdault> mathiaz: no, as I said, I'm a fairly new Ubuntu adept
[16:29] <mathiaz> also what's the time frame for upstream 1.6 release? Does it make sense to try to target 1.6 for karmic?
[16:29] <jmdault> I'm an ex Mandriva developer btw ;-)
[16:29] <stgraber> jmdault: you should probably contact the Debian VOIP team and see why they chose 1.6 instead of going stable
[16:29] <ttx_> jmdault: we love ex-Mandriva developers.
[16:29] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - we've all started somewhere.
[16:30] <ttx_> we love all French.
[16:30] <mathiaz> jmdault: we're here to help you out
[16:30] <jmdault> stgraber: yes, I was planning to to that. I have two asterisk servers to install this week, however ;-)
[16:31] <jmdault> I'll contact Debian VoIP team, and Digium as well, to know their plans
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: ok - so to move thing forward, the question is which version makes most sense for karmic
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: 1.6 (unstable) or 1.4?
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: you don't need to give an answer now
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: we've got until FeatureFreeze to decide
[16:32] <jmdault> mathiaz: good
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: August 17th
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: August *27th*
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: the sooner the better though - especially for such a big piece of code
[16:33] <jmdault> mathiaz: yes, I'll do that ASAP
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: you may also have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
[16:33] <jmdault> It's not such a big piece of code
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: as it seems to be a rather old spec and may not be up-to-date
[16:33] <jmdault> the DAHDI interface works with 1.4 or 1.6
[16:34] <jmdault> the gui, voice prompts as well
[16:34] <stgraber> got to go now, though mjeanson- has IRC on his cell :)
[16:34] <mathiaz> jmdault: you may have some other idea on improving the state of asterisk in ubuntu (and debian)
[16:34] <jmdault> mathiaz: is Fabian nearby?
[16:34] <mathiaz> jmdault: could you report back next week on which version of asterisk should be in karmic?
[16:35] <jmdault> Yes, I report the version next week
[16:35] <mathiaz> [ACTION] jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
[16:35] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
[16:35] <mathiaz> anything else on the topic of asterisk?
[16:36] <jmdault> one issue
[16:36] <jmdault> binary drivers
[16:36] <jmdault> the dfsg version removes code for the echo canceller
[16:36] <jmdault> the driver, at build time, contacts digium to download a firmware
[16:37] <jmdault> the "build time" here, is either module-assistant, or dkms
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: interesting. we'll have to look into that.
[16:38] <jmdault> Absolutely no proprietary code will be shipped in the .debs
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: could you follow up on the ubuntu-server@ ml?
[16:38] <jmdault> will do
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
[16:38] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:38] <jmdault> great
[16:39] <mathiaz> anything else related to last week minutes?
[16:41] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on then
[16:41] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
[16:41] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
[16:41] <nijaba> Motd currently displays 7 lines of legal warning that takes up usefull space.
[16:41] <nijaba> It is beleived that displaying this information is only
[16:41] <nijaba> necessary once per admin user.
[16:41] <nijaba> This could be done by only displaying this if there is no ~/.legal_seen file and add it once displayed.
[16:42] <nijaba> Kirkland has already implemented it, we are waiting for legal to approve the change.
[16:42] <nijaba> Given the reclaimed extra space, and in order to provide visibility to new or important features in Ubuntu Server Edition, we could add an ubuntu-tips package, installed by default, that would randomly display 2 lines of text at the end of the motd coming from a list of tips placed in a given directory.
[16:42] <nijaba> examples:
[16:42] <nijaba> To learn more about Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud go to:
[16:42] <nijaba> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
[16:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
[16:42] <nijaba> Did you know that you can get useful notifications displayed at the
[16:42] <nijaba> bottom of the terminal by using the byobu package?
[16:43] <nijaba> These tips would be defined and reviewed by the community, on a wiki page
[16:43] <nijaba> What would you think of this?
[16:43]  * sommer +1
[16:44] <alex_muntada> +1
[16:44] <zul> -1
[16:44] <ttx_> -1
[16:44] <mathiaz> nijaba: like a fortune in the motd?
[16:44] <mathiaz> zul: ttx_: why?
[16:44] <zul> so it would be like clippy for linux?
[16:44] <nijaba> mathiaz: that's the idea, yes
[16:45] <nijaba> zul: huh, no, since it would be only displayed once, at login, in a very non obtrusive fashion
[16:45] <ttx_> 1/ I'm all for recovering that space, but not to waste it again. 2/ I expect difficulties on finding tiops that make sense for everyone
[16:45] <ttx_> but as always, I can be convinced otherwise :)
[16:46] <mathiaz> nijaba already gave two examples of tips
[16:46] <ttx_> I just anticipate flamefests on tip contents
[16:46] <zul> i think you would get complaints like those of landscape
[16:46] <mathiaz> ttx_: would these two be ok for you?
[16:46] <ttx_> for not a lot to gain
[16:46] <nijaba> ttx_: I think yo anticipate too much :)
[16:47] <sommer> would you be able to disable the tips?
[16:47] <mathiaz> zul: true - the complain about landscape were about the commercial aspect of it
[16:47] <ttx_> What would be the guidelines to make a good tip ? Community approval on said wikipage ?
[16:47] <nijaba> ttx_: the issue we are trying to solve: inform users of what's new in the ubuntu while we know most do not read release notes
[16:47] <zul> besides i dont think anyone would look at it either
[16:47] <mathiaz> ttx_: sounds like a good plan
[16:47]  * nijaba agrees
[16:47] <kirkland> i vote +0, i wouldn't mind an ubuntu-tips package that added tips to the motd, but until we see the contents of this tips database, i don't think it should be in the default server install
[16:47] <mathiaz> another source of tip could be something similar to the package of day
[16:48] <kirkland> however, seeing the contents of ubuntu-tips, the quality and relevance, etc, i think this could become a good thing
[16:48] <ttx_> I tend to agree with kirkland here
[16:48] <mathiaz> right - what would be the minimum number of tips availble before we move on?
[16:48]  * nijaba propose to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.  I'll send the url to the ml and ask for other input
[16:49] <zul> i just dont see what you gain from it though
[16:49] <nijaba> zul: visibility of new features that have been brought in
[16:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: seems like a first step in the direction
[16:49] <kirkland> nijaba: i suggest you throw it into a bzr tree, and a small package, put it in your ppa
[16:50] <alex_muntada> there is already fortunes-debian-hints which may contain some useful tips
[16:50] <mathiaz> zul: let's see what kind of tips are found and we can discuss the relevant of including them once we'got them
[16:50] <zul> mathiaz: fine with me.
[16:51] <ttx_> maybe I'm a little too careful :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> alex_muntada: good suggestions
[16:51] <mathiaz> nijaba: could you start a wiki page?
[16:51] <nijaba> mathiaz: sure
[16:51] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
[16:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
[16:52] <mathiaz> nijaba: and send the url to the ubuntu-server@ ?
[16:52] <nijaba> mathiaz: will do
[16:52] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
[16:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
[16:52] <dendrobates> my two cents: we are trying to produce a enterprise level product.
[16:52] <mathiaz> anything else on this subject?
[16:52] <dendrobates> and this feels consumer-like.
[16:53] <dendrobates> most people using ubuntu server are sys admins and will not want this feature.
[16:53] <dendrobates> but, it might be useful to some.
[16:54] <mathiaz> dendrobates: may be - so we should make sure it's easy to disable it
[16:54] <dendrobates> no, we should make it optional to begin with.
[16:54] <dendrobates> why annoy the many to help the few.
[16:54] <mathiaz> I think we should first come up with the list of tips and we can discuss then the best to integrate it afterwards
[16:55] <mathiaz> all right - let's move on
[16:55] <mathiaz> as we're running out of time
[16:56] <mathiaz> I'll skip the open discussion item
[16:56] <mathiaz> and jump straight to the last item (most important)
[16:56] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:56] <mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
[16:57] <sommer> sure
[16:57] <alex_muntada> ok
[16:57] <jmdault> ok
[16:57] <zul> maybe
[16:57] <zul> i mean yes
[16:57] <ttx_> wfm
[16:58] <mathiaz> ok - great - thanks all for attending
[16:58] <mathiaz> go wild on the last round of merges
[16:58] <mathiaz> and see you all on #ubuntu-server or next week, same time, same place
[16:58] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.

MeetingLogs/Server/20090623 (last edited 2009-06-23 20:29:22 by mathiaz)