UbuntuDev-2006-11-23
06:03 fabbione should we get started guys? 06:03 cjwatson I'm just going through the list to figure out whom to ping 06:03 cjwatson I assume Kees is off due to Thanksgiving as well 06:04 cjwatson doko is on holiday 06:04 cjwatson ogra is in Poland somewhere 06:04 pitti Kees is there 06:04 cjwatson seb128 has an appointment 06:05 cjwatson ok, we'll see if Adam and Kees turn up later 06:06 cjwatson general idea of this meeting is to go through specs and figure out which ones are on track for approval by next Thursday 06:06 cjwatson or, more importantly, which ones aren't and may need to be rescued 06:06 pitti @all: since Kees officially reports to elmo now, mdz said that Kees is not officially required for distro team meeting 06:06 cjwatson pitti: aha, thanks 06:06 cjwatson BenC: could you start? I have a phone call, brb 06:06 Mithrandir cjwatson: given that it's 0400 in Adam's TZ, I suspect he might just have crashed. 06:06 BenC * driver-device-manager: Drafting: will have this finished and approved by Nov 30th. Actually started on writing this already. 06:06 BenC * retire-optimized-kernels: Retroactive spec, need to draft it. 06:06 BenC * linux-kernel-crash-dump: Retargetted to feisty. Few small bits still to implement. 06:06 BenC * libata-for-all-ata-disks: Retargetted to feisty. Have switched a few drivers to pata in 2.6.19. Ran into some issues with initramfs-tools not including them in the initrd, but fixed as of yesterday. Still some issues to figure out with regard to generic/ide-generic and ata_generic/pata_legacy migration. 06:07 Keybuk BenC: we really really should talk about d-d-m given #u-k today. let's schedule that for when you're less turkey-centric 06:07 BenC Keybuk: definitely 06:07 pitti BenC: do you really need to invest much effort for retire-optimized-kernels if it's done already anyway? 06:07 BenC pitti: It's just a spec to record what we did 06:07 Keybuk can we make kylem our bitch to write the kernel patches? 06:07 BenC I only mention it because it's assigned to me :) 06:08 cjwatson (Adam's moving to elmo's team as well, AFAIK, so ...) 06:08 cjwatson BenC: ok, you seem to have an easy time :) 06:08 cjwatson which of course makes you a prime target for rescuing other people's stuff ... 06:08 BenC cjwatson: I'm willing to take on some other stuff if need be 06:09 BenC I can delegate 06:09 cjwatson feisty-ubiquity: Approved. I should do some of this, but some would make good bite-size tasks for new developers. Should I be the assignee anyway? 06:09 cjwatson increase-hwdb-participation: Approved. None of this is actually going to happeen in the installer, so I'd appreciate somebody else volunteering as the assigneee here. 06:09 cjwatson intel-mac-support: Did not get discussion at UDS or allhands. I know roughly what needs to be done, so I intend to draft it anyway and we can at least make the situation a lot better than it is now. 06:09 cjwatson setup-console-under-usplash: Approved; working my way through the merge pile before uploading; unfortunately we have to merge xkeyboard-config first. 06:09 cjwatson simplify-oem-installation: Still in requirements gathering. There are some fairly obvious things we can do listed at the bottom of the brain-dump, but I don't know how far we can take this without better commercial input. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: No more work done since just before UDS, but it's still just as approved as it was before. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-automation: Approved. We went for a fairly conservative set of options which should be a quick win. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-driver-updates: Drafting. We loosely agreed the business side at allhands, so I just need to put the pieces together and get it approved now. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-more-user-config: Discussion. We still need to talk to Launchpad developers about account creation; I didn't manage this at allhands ... 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-oem: Not really started. Doesn't need significant discussion, but Maria indicated at allhands that this wasn't a priority for the Canonical OEM team, so I'll only complete it if I have time. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-release-notes: Approved. Should be easy. 06:09 cjwatson ubiquity-slideshow: Approved. Installer side should be straightforward, but it also needs artwork. Who should be the assignee? 06:09 cjwatson note in case it's lost: looking for volunteers to implement increase-hwdb-participation 06:09 cjwatson I suspect I'll need to ask mdz later about the who-should-be-assignee questions 06:10 cjwatson ubiquity-more-user-config is really the one in most trouble, so I'll try to get that rescued somewhat tomorroow 06:10 cjwatson -o 06:11 cjwatson seriously tempted to ignore the oem stuff as I doubt I'm going to get clear enough requirements 06:11 pitti cjwatson: will that replace the current oem-config package? or will both be supported? 06:12 pitti (I'm asking because oem-config seems to have quite a number of hiccups) 06:12 cjwatson pitti: the plans in simplify-oem-installation were to improve oem-config; one of my suggestions in there was to build it from ubiquity, since internally they're similar 06:12 pitti ah, that's great 06:12 cjwatson I suspect regardless of spec approval I'll at least try to fix bugs *shrug* 06:13 Mithrandir cjwatson: is increase-hwdb-participation as simple as it looks? 06:13 cjwatson Mithrandir: as specced, I think so 06:13 cjwatson anyway, we can talk about it later 06:13 mvo I would be interessted in increase-hwdb-participation but I supsect that I will not have time because of my specs 06:14 Mithrandir cjwatson: if so, I can probably do it. It _looks_ like an hour or so of work, mostly in casper. 06:14 cjwatson Mithrandir: needs to be outside casper I think, due to the after-first-reboot requirement === mvo thinks the improved-hwdb spec should include the goal to make hwdb-client transltable 06:14 cjwatson anyway, later :) 06:14 cjwatson is dholbach around anywhere, or on holiday? 06:14 Mithrandir he was around earlier today. 06:14 cjwatson fabbione: next 06:14 fabbione Done 06:14 fabbione * clean up a couple of specs. 06:14 fabbione * merges. 06:14 fabbione * extra bug fixing in mdadm to have bootable feisty. 06:14 fabbione * SRU for lvm2 (dapper and edgy). 06:14 fabbione * debugging pata_via init race. 06:14 fabbione * update some other packages (ocfs2-tools, openais, redhat-cluster-suite). 06:14 cjwatson (later => #ubuntu-devel) 06:14 fabbione * wrote metacode for MAU support in the kernel. 06:14 fabbione * recovering from jetlag (on going). 06:14 fabbione To do 06:14 fabbione * start working specs implementations. 06:14 fabbione * get last specs approved. 06:14 fabbione * change meeting report layout to match specs status. 06:14 cjwatson fabbione: EXPN MAU? 06:15 fabbione cjwatson: it's a math unit optimized to do some mul for ssl 06:15 cjwatson mvo: talk with ogra about that when he's around 06:16 fabbione cjwatson: i am deliberatly avoiding SSL accelerator because it's like a dedicated FPU that does only 3 things 06:16 fabbione cjwatson: and *casually* they are very often used in SSL operations 06:16 cjwatson fabbione: is that for sparc64-niagara-ssl-accelerator? 06:17 fabbione cjwatson: yes 06:15 mvo cjwatson: dholbach is on the road, he send his meeting notes to mdz AFAIK === cjwatson tries to mentally transform fabbione's report into per-spec 06:17 fabbione cjwatson: yes sorry.. if forgot the spec format for this meeting 06:17 fabbione <fabbione> * update some other packages (ocfs2-tools, openais, redhat-cluster-suite). -> feisty-ha-clusters 06:17 cjwatson so you have ubuntu-feisty-ha-clusters (low), integrity-check (low) to get approved as well as s-n-s-a 06:18 fabbione i have more but they are pending approval orhave been excluded from discussion at uds 06:18 cjwatson but they're pending-approval so presumably those are not too badly off 06:18 fabbione exactly 06:18 cjwatson ok, thanks 06:18 cjwatson heno: next 06:19 heno * access-gdm - Should be simple enough with upstream doing work on it. Our default GDM theme is not a11y-capable yet though -- need to look into that. 06:19 heno * braille-support - Pending Review. cjwatson and Keybuk should have another look at it. 06:19 heno * color-filters - Spec still needs completing. Libs vare available for testing from upstream but no config GUI has been made AFAIK. 06:19 heno * common-at-conf -- spec needs to be tightened and recent upstream work needs taking into account. 06:19 heno * multilingual-speech - Should be split up into a Fiesty and a Fiesty+1 spec, with the former adding more language files to our repos (universe and multiverse) and the later would include UI and Just Works stuff. 06:19 heno * orca-laptop-support - Approved. good progress -- laptop layout now available for testing from upstream. 06:19 heno * atspi-testing-by-default -- I'd like feedback from the team on this. It is already implemented in test builds of Gnome; does that mean we get it automatically? Are there any major objections to this? ... it will slow systems down a bit. 06:19 cjwatson heno: most of your specs still seem to be in New. Is that an accurate reflection? 06:20 cjwatson mouse-tweaks, onboard-desktop-control, onboard-switching? 06:20 heno cjwatson: some will not be going forward due to general lack of community support, what should be done with those? 06:21 heno Yes, I posted several such specs before UDS but they don't have steam ATM 06:21 cjwatson if they're just a bad idea, there's an Obsolete status or similar, and use the status whiteboard; if they won't happen *yet*, I think Deferred 06:21 heno the onboard stuff needs time from chris, etc 06:22 cjwatson but at any rate note the status in the whiteboard 06:22 heno ok, I'm drafter, registrant, but was not planning to have them assigned to me 06:22 heno esp. the onboard ones 06:22 heno ok, will do 06:23 Keybuk who were you planning them to be assigned to? 06:23 cjwatson my main concerns about atspi-testing-by-default are (a) if it's *too* broken it could seriously impede development, (b) how do we arrange to turn it off again for people who install milestone releases of feisty and then upgrae? 06:23 cjwatson upgrade 06:23 heno community members 06:24 heno cjwatson: I agree on both of those. I can research (b) a bit 06:24 cjwatson if they're understood but just lack implementation time, please try to get them drafted so that people can pick them up even if there's nobody available right now 06:25 heno Chris Jones may still work on onboard stuff 06:25 heno cjwatson: right, ok 06:25 heno some might be suitable for next years GSoC 06:26 cjwatson ok, thanks heno; we can discuss further later 06:26 cjwatson iwj: next 06:26 heno we are planning a joint pool of specs/candidates across several FOSS projects 06:26 iwj automated-testing-deployment: Approved, implementation Deferred from edgy. Work will continue. 06:26 iwj udev-lvm: Pending Approval by mdz. 06:26 iwj gnome-app-install-codecs: Drafting. Awaiting final details of the codec specifier string; apparently gstreamer folks are working on this. 06:26 iwj winmodem-support: New. Spec is unclear and I think needs discussion, I suggest deferring to feisty+1. 06:26 iwj package-dependency-field-breaks: Approved / Beta Available. Should be ready for full deployment now; I will rerun my search-for-candidates. 06:26 iwj usb-adsl-modems: Approved / Unknown. Lacking an Assignee. It would be nice to assign this to someone who understands the subject. 06:27 iwj consistent-login-screen: Review. There seems to be a shortage of reviewers today. It seemed odd to review my own spec, so I didn't. 06:27 iwj dbus-restarts: Drafting. This needs discussion I think. Why was it declined for uds-mtv ? 06:27 iwj edgy-fontconfig: New. There is no spec and the subject needs discussion. I suggest deferring (or rejecting). 06:28 rodarvus iwj, edgy-fontconfig is a good spec. the real problem is that we basically got no one with deep fontconfig knowledge at UDS MTV 06:28 cjwatson I think dbus-restarts was declined because it was controversial and properly belonged upstream (note: just the messenger) 06:29 cjwatson rodarvus: err, we had Keith Packard - how much more knowledgeable do you want? :P 06:29 iwj cjwatson: Um. 06:29 Keybuk actually it was declined because nobody subscribed to it 06:29 iwj Keybuk: That's fair enough. 06:29 Keybuk mdz only wanted things to be on the schedule if there were multiple people to discuss it 06:29 rodarvus cjwatson, keithp was there for one morning, and had specs during all the time he was there :) 06:29 iwj cjwatson: dbus-restarts really needs to be done and every one of us knows that upstream are on crack. 06:29 Keybuk where only the assignee/drafter was there, they may as well just draft it themselves and get it approved as a release goal directly 06:29 cjwatson iwj: I agree 06:29 rodarvus but you're right, of course 06:30 iwj So it's not controversial here and we should just do it. But I can't draft it because I don't know dbus quite well enough. 06:30 cjwatson iwj: gnome-app-install-codecs> do we have a timescale for gstreamer feedback? 06:30 iwj Ryan Lortie says `actively being worked on'. 06:30 cjwatson any volunteers for usb-adsl-modems? I have some experience with one of the models in question, but no time 06:30 pitti iwj: dbus-restart doesn't seem painfully urgent; and it is yet to be seen whether it's a good idea for a package to restart a daemon in the user's session 06:30 iwj Mail yesterday at 1700Z. No reply from the people who are `actively [working] ' on it ... 06:31 cjwatson I've made a note to review consistent-login-screen 06:31 iwj pitti: uh ? That's not the suggestion. But let's not have the bof now. 06:31 iwj cjwatson: Thanks. 06:31 cjwatson perhaps you two can discuss it in #ubuntu-devel later 06:31 pitti right 06:31 iwj Right. 06:32 cjwatson also to talk to mdz about edgy-fontconfig 06:32 iwj Anyway, I'll chase the codec thing. 06:32 iwj It does seem to have momentum, we just need to make sure the communication is working. 06:32 cjwatson winmodem-support is annoying but if we do usb-adsl-support at least we'll improve the most common modern class of dialup 06:32 cjwatson er, dialup-a-like 06:32 iwj *snort* 06:33 cjwatson and there is not a lot of developer traction, unfortunately 06:33 iwj Yes. 06:33 cjwatson ok, thanks, I have copious notes now :) 06:33 iwj It's a shame that towsonu2003 couldn't make it to uds to explain it to us. 06:33 cjwatson I'll have another read through it and see if there's low-hanging fruit 06:33 cjwatson Riddell: next 06:34 Riddell done: 06:34 Riddell * all of KDE main merged and updated, send patches upstream, packaging koffice 1.6.1, and security fun with 06:34 Riddell todo: 06:34 Riddell * merge rest of Kubuntu packages and others with my name on them 06:34 Riddell * on holiday next week 06:34 Riddell specs: 06:34 Riddell 1 being reviewed: 06:34 Riddell kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant 06:34 Riddell bunch needing approval: 06:34 Riddell (community) kubuntu-multimedia-simplification, kubuntu-samba-integration, kubuntu-feisty-laptop, kubuntu-feisty-networking 06:34 Riddell (artwork) kubuntu-feisty-artwork* 06:34 Riddell (mine) kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes, kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant 06:34 Riddell approved specs: 06:34 Riddell kubuntu-feisty-kde4-plan, would be a good task for an abitious MOTU 06:34 Riddell kubuntu-update-manager, most important one, still trying to contact upstream with questions about embedded konsole 06:34 Riddell kubuntu-feisty-language-selector, approved and qt 4 port already done by josef 06:34 Riddell kubuntu-feisty-ubiquity, sebas volunteered to help with qt 4 port 06:34 Riddell fabbione: iwj was good enough to review kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant, so hopefully that'll need approval soon too 06:35 fabbione Riddell: ok 06:35 cjwatson I'll try to pick up approvals tomorrow/Monday once I'm done with my own specs 06:35 cjwatson what's the * beside kubuntu-feisty-artwork? 06:36 Riddell cjwatson: it's about 5 specs for each of the artwork parts 06:36 Riddell the specs themselves are very short 06:36 cjwatson oh I see, a wildcard 06:37 cjwatson kubuntu-gdebi, kubuntu-hwdb-usability, kubuntu-feisty-hal-device-manager, kubuntu-onboard? 06:37 Riddell all deferred 06:38 cjwatson ok, can you mark them as such? 06:38 Riddell sure 06:39 cjwatson thanks 06:40 cjwatson kylem: anything from you? I know you probably don't have much in the way of specs (yet) ... 06:40 kylem moo. 06:40 kylem done: 06:40 kylem * ubuntu-dapper-updates.git up to date with patches from community 06:40 kylem * ubuntu-edgy-updates.git up to date with backports/patches from dapper-updates 06:40 kylem * both trees built on i386/generic 06:40 kylem * pushed to kernel.org 06:40 kylem todo: 06:40 kylem * receive more marching orders 06:40 kylem * figure out why git on rookery hates me 06:40 kylem specs: 06:40 kylem * none assigned 06:41 cjwatson there's a kernel in dapper-proposed (IIRC) that I need to figure out what to do with 06:41 pitti kylem: we need a kernel security update soon; I would like to talk to you about that 06:41 cjwatson it's like ten weeks old, but we should probably talk through it at some point 06:41 kylem ok. 06:42 cjwatson right, I assume Ben will take care of most of your marching orders for now. Are you taking primary responsibility for stable release maintenance? 06:42 kylem you'd have to ask Ben :) 06:43 pitti alright, let's talk about this in #u-k tomorrow 06:44 kylem sure. 06:44 cjwatson ok, thanks 06:44 cjwatson pitti: next 06:44 pitti Done: 06:44 pitti * vacation until yesterday 06:44 pitti * caught up with email backlog, security review, and kernel security issues 06:44 pitti Todo: 06:44 pitti * find a spare month to catch up with my fat bugs inbox, which I didn't dare to open in the last two weeks 06:44 pitti * start implementing cleanup-audio-jumble and zero-configuration-networking, since these are most urgent and block other specs 06:44 pitti My feisty goals: 06:44 pitti * zero-configuration-networking: approved, did not start any implementation yet; played around with the stuff locally, avahi-autoipd works nicely, current libnss-mdns does not work at all for me, needs more work; approx. 2 days work 06:44 pitti * cleanup-audio-jumble: pending approval; didn't have an assignee yet, I signed up for this one; did some initial tests, looks good; required code changes will take about a day, changing the system to use pulse consistently another day 06:44 pitti * gnome-mount: approved, and used by default in feisty; still needed: security overhaul of hal backend, and de-gnome-ification of password dialog to make it appropriate for XFCE; approx. 3 days work 06:44 pitti * mount-all-local-filesystems: approved, not started yet; shoulnd't take more than one or two days to get it working 06:44 pitti * apport-improvements: not discussed at UDS; did some talks to kylem and BenC for getting the kernel side right, and talked to lifeless about python crash interception and general code structure cleanup; a lot of work to implement all improvements, but not scheduled for feisty, so low-prio 06:44 pitti * crash-reporting: not discussed at UDS, got an ad-hoc session on allhands; client/apport side isn't too complicated, but writing the server side is a considerable amount of work; needs more discussion with stub and LP team 06:45 pitti * bug-reporting-tool: pending approval, current assignee is sfllaw, but since most of this spec deals with apport changes, I'll probably end up doing the client side (I estimate 1-2 days); I have no idea how much work the Malone side is (cloakroom and linking submitted stuff to bug) 06:45 pitti * malone-cve-tracking: only got a private ad-hoc session with keescook; not a high-pri 06:45 cjwatson bug mailbox> I feel your pain 06:45 pitti *shudder* 06:45 Keybuk I've actually caught up on my bugs === pitti bets 500 bugs and grabs another ace from his sleeve 06:45 Keybuk I spend most of today on it 06:45 Mithrandir pitti: hmm, how does zero-configuration-networking hook into network-roaming? 06:46 kylem bug mailbox? you mean you don't use inbox? 06:46 Keybuk Mithrandir: requires n-m to start avahi-autoipd for "create/join other network" 06:46 pitti Mithrandir: the spec talks about the things that n-m needs to learn 06:46 iwj pitti: mount-all-local-filesystems> what about the mad journal replay problem ? 06:46 pitti Mithrandir: like invoking avahi-autoipd, etc. 06:46 cjwatson kylem: I did until it crushed me 06:46 Mithrandir pitti: ok. Can we talk about this later or tomorrow? 06:46 pitti Mithrandir: sure 06:46 pitti this certainly requires some coordination 06:46 rodarvus kylem, I suppose you subscribe to kernel bugs, right? 06:46 cjwatson pitti: automatic-printer-conf? 06:46 kylem rodarvus, indeed. 06:47 pitti iwj: no clue, can we discuss this in #u-d? 06:47 iwj Sure. 06:47 pitti cjwatson: not scheduled for feisty, and I'm afraid I won't have time for that 06:47 pitti cjwatson: however, when we get printerdrake this will mostly implement itself 06:48 cjwatson pitti: apport-improvements is currently medium; we should probably talk about how much is possible 06:48 pitti I'd really like to use the new kernel's 'pipes in core patterns' approach 06:49 pitti but that requires a kernel fix 06:49 cjwatson it would be nice to get that one at least drafted so that others can be found to help out 06:49 tkamppeter printerdrake is an approved spec, and pitti told me on the UDS that he wanted to download my tarball and start a first adaptation to Ubuntu around two weeks after the UDS. 06:49 pitti right, I'm trying to do that ^ 06:49 pitti cjwatson: I'll draft a subset of the improvements then 06:49 tkamppeter https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake 06:49 cjwatson pitti: ok, thanks 06:50 cjwatson mvo: next 06:50 mvo Approved specs: 06:50 mvo - auto-dist-upgrade-testing 06:50 mvo - binary-driver-education 06:50 mvo - common-customizations 06:50 mvo - enabling-additional-components 06:50 mvo - server-upgrade-tool 06:51 mvo Pending approval: 06:51 mvo - dist-upgrader-fixes 06:51 mvo Drafting: 06:51 mvo - dynamic-mirror-decisions: I need to add input from James that I got during AllHands 06:51 mvo - apt-sha256: not sure it needs a full spec, its straightforward to implement 06:51 mvo - apt-sync: work on integrating the SoC work on incremental updates into apt 06:51 mvo - dist-upgrader-arch-any: make sure the upgrader can use binary-any components (e.g. backports). Its pretty clear how to implement it, not sure it needs a full spec 06:52 cjwatson incremental updates> not pdiffs, right? does that require LP integration? 06:53 mvo cjwatson: no, zsync/rsync based updates. it would require apt-ftparchive/soyuz integration, but its all pretty experimental currently, not sure it can be done in feisty timeframe 06:53 mvo I have a test repository working on people 06:53 cjwatson I'm not concerned about apt-sha256 or dist-upgrader-arch-any from the sound of things 06:53 Keybuk given the size of the soyuz team, I'd imagine it'd be hard finding the resources 06:53 Keybuk unless you want to hack on LP 06:53 cjwatson well, except that apt-sha256 probably needs a soyuz change 06:53 cjwatson yes, anything that needs LP integration needs to be done massively far in advance 06:54 mvo cjwatson: right, but the apt-sha256 change should be small, it only writes the Release file itself, the rest is done via apt-ftparchive 06:54 cjwatson mvo: dependency-removal? 06:54 cjwatson mvo: ... assuming that soyuz keeps on using apt-ftparchive, which doesn't seem entirely definite 06:55 mvo cjwatson: I'm not sure why it is in NEW. it was fully speced and approved. and its in edgy. its just not turned on by default (it just prints) 06:55 mvo cjwatson: oh? it seems to me that if the soyuz team is very small and has trouble keeping up that rewriting apt-ftparchive might not be the best thing to do 06:56 cjwatson mvo: feel free to draft whatever's still needed and move it out of new (possibly pointing it at a different wiki page or something) 06:56 mvo cjwatson: thanks, I will 06:56 cjwatson mvo: well, I agree, but they've always had performance concerns with apt-ftparchive and want to just dump the data out of the database 06:56 cjwatson anyway, later 06:57 mvo *nod* 06:57 cjwatson mvo: dynamic-mirror-decisions does not seem to address automatic selection at all yet - is that planned? 06:57 mvo cjwatson: yes, it was unclear to me what is really needed. but I talked to James during allhands and have a pretty good idea now 06:57 mvo I need to add it to the spec though 06:57 cjwatson ok, please do 06:57 cjwatson thanks 06:58 cjwatson rodarvus: next 06:58 rodarvus - accelerated-x: under review. I asked Scott to hold the Approval of this spec until we received release notes from Christina. This is well underway, so please feel free to Review it now 06:58 rodarvus - composite-by-default: drafting. Scope has changed since last BoF meeting on UDS MTV. Was "composite *not* really by default, but easily enabled", now became "composite by default". The three remaining focal points of the drafting are: 06:58 rodarvus - Making a table, with an in depth comparison of Beryl and Compiz, plus features that need to be met by both of them, so the Technical Board can make the decision when the time comes (Feature Freeze, I suppose?). This comparison is underway, I expect to have it ready tomorrow 06:58 rodarvus - Inheriting stuff from 'desktop-effects' package into a semi-novelty design, to accomodate the fact that we'll be the first distro using composite by default. This information will also be added to the spec 06:58 rodarvus - Researching graceful fallback of Beryl/Compiz to Metacity (and how to store that into the config file). 06:58 rodarvus - bullet-proof-x: needs to be drafted, but is blocked by 'composite-by-default', which is of higher priority 06:58 rodarvus - simple-x-mode-selection: likewise 06:58 rodarvus - maemo-on-ubuntu: we had almost a day of discussion at UDS MTV for this spec, but it needs legal feedback from Nokia, before I can actually draft it. (so problems are not of technical nature, and I'm not sure if it will happen for feisty) 06:58 rodarvus - I also have two other edubuntu-related specs, which I plan to talk to ogra about, when he is here (but they are already approved) 06:58 rodarvus Remarks: 06:58 rodarvus - I expect composite-by-default to be ready for the first round of Review tomorrow. Hopefully the first two remaining items will be addressed. 'graceful fallback' is not quite there, unfortunately 06:58 rodarvus - the two specs *will* be ready before Nov 30th. I'll finish them on Monday, even if composite-by-default is not there yet 06:59 Keybuk rodarvus: Feature Freeze is the plan 06:59 rodarvus *nods* 06:59 cjwatson or distro sprint? === pitti wonders how Feisty's goal of 'good hardware support' and 'compiz by default' go together 06:59 cjwatson pitti: fallback to metacity 06:59 rodarvus heh 06:59 Keybuk that way teams can coalesce around both projects, and we can evaluate how much support we're likely to get, as well as what shape they're both in 07:00 rodarvus pitti, the challenge of having good hardware support, with composite window manager is the biggest challenge of accelerated-x and composite-by-default 07:01 cjwatson how is simple-x-mode-selection blocked by composite-by-default? 07:01 rodarvus and the reason why these two specs are hard to get approved and implemented right 07:01 pitti rodarvus: (just bitching that feisty breaks both my computers ATM, but nevermind) 07:01 zul is there going to be a way of manually turning off compiz? 07:01 rodarvus cjwatson, just time constraints 07:01 rodarvus as mentioned above, I'll draft the two remaining specs monday, regardless if I have composite-by-default ready for review by the 07:02 rodarvus then 07:02 cjwatson rodarvus: ah, I misunderstood "likewise" 07:02 cjwatson ok, thanks, let me know when I can look over bullet-proof-x 07:02 rodarvus -EBADGRAMMAR 07:02 rodarvus cjwatson, sure 07:03 rodarvus Keybuk, please take a look at accelerated-x when you can. I hope it won't need another round of drafting, but you never know 07:02 cjwatson Keybuk: next 07:03 Keybuk Spec Status 07:03 Keybuk udev specs: these are only a few hours work each, yet eliminate a major source of race conditions and problems that we have. My plan is to implement these as a set once the upstart changes have been done. 07:03 Keybuk - udev-device-mapper: [approved] 07:03 Keybuk - udev-mdadm: [implemented] with fabbione's merge of mdadm, and my upload of udev, this should be working 07:03 Keybuk - udev-evms: [pending approval - mdz] 07:03 Keybuk - udev-lvm: [pending approval - mdz] 07:03 Keybuk + I don't believe there were major concerns with the above two specs, just drafting issues. 07:03 Keybuk slick boot specs: one of Mark's goals for feisty. Fortunately there's not much "real work" here. 07:04 Keybuk - slick-boot: [pending approval - sabdfl] this mostly ended up as a todo list spec 07:04 Keybuk - setup-console-under-usplash: [really cjwatson's] almost done? 07:04 Keybuk - usplash-fsck-progress: [drafting] not yet started on this one, it's one of those things that's probably more effort to draft than it is to implement. 07:04 Keybuk - boot-messages: [drafting] coupled with above really, needs some discussion and decisions how to implement - will land quite late in the cycle; if it misses, the edgy stuff is "good enough" 07:04 Keybuk - no-usplash-timeout: [review - cjwatson] trivial spec just to make things more seamless 07:04 Keybuk - usplash-until-desktop: [blocked and declined] it turns out that this isn't possible; most X drivers need to start in a text mode, otherwise they can't set the mode back when you Ctrl-Alt-F1 back later. 07:04 cjwatson Keybuk: slick-boot depends on usplash-until-desktop, which can't happen, doesn't it? 07:04 Keybuk replacement-initscripts: [drafting] Spec has a draft brain storm, this one will be in flux until it's actually implemented. Basically like streamlined-boot before; the spec will document what happened, not what's planned. 07:04 Keybuk automake-transition: [deferred from edgy - implemented!] Debian have almost finished this transition, marked it implemented as it's only half a dozen unmaintained packages that haven't been transitioned now. Automake 1.10 FTW! 07:04 Keybuk techboard-2006: [pending approval - sabdfl] Can mdz poke him? :p 07:04 Keybuk new-pci-ids: [new] someone (mdz!) stuffed this in my queue. the summary is bogus, it's practically impossi 07:04 Keybuk impossible to do today. we could do this properly with some heavy kernel hackery that would give us lots and lots of wins. 07:04 cjwatson Keybuk: new-pci-ids is supposed to use the new_id thing in /sys 07:04 Keybuk cjwatson: I could rename it to "slickish-boot", but I can't be arsed :p the other gains are worthwhile 07:04 Keybuk cjwatson: which doesn't work 07:04 cjwatson uh? 07:05 cjwatson #ubuntu-devel 07:05 Keybuk indeed, or read the #ubuntu-kernel log from today 07:05 Keybuk this dovetails nicely with BenC's device-driver-manager thing 07:05 Keybuk we both want to do the same evil thing to the kernel 07:05 Mithrandir Keybuk: usplash-until-desktop> too hard to save the mode in the initramfs? 07:05 cjwatson setup-console-under-usplash should land tomorrowish at which point testing would be very nice 07:06 cjwatson I'll go and read up on the kernel stuff later 07:06 Keybuk Mithrandir: it's an X driver thing apparently, mjg59 knows more 07:07 cjwatson I think the X driver saves the registers 07:07 cjwatson </handwave> 07:07 cjwatson I browsed through replacement-initscripts briefly; the big graph melted my eyes but didn't make me scream too badly 07:08 cjwatson will look again later 07:08 Mithrandir cjwatson: yes, and we should (COUGH) be able to save that when usplash starts. Might be bloody painful, though. 07:08 cjwatson Keybuk: syslog-improvements? 07:08 Keybuk cjwatson: not accepted for feisty 07:08 Keybuk I doubt I'll have time 07:08 cjwatson Keybuk: how come all the obsolete upstart specs? 07:09 Keybuk not accepted for feisty 07:09 cjwatson that seems like Deferred not Obsolete 07:09 Keybuk and some of them make more sense under /products/upstart 07:09 mjg59 There's no practical way to avoid a switch to text mode before a switch to X 07:10 mjg59 Since otherwise X has no idea what mode to switch back to 07:11 Mithrandir mjg59: as I've said earlier; assuming we can easily grab that bit of code out of X, usplash could grab it and save it somewhere and X could be taught to use that. 07:11 mjg59 Mithrandir: "that bit of code" is per-driver 07:12 rodarvus mjg59, until we have randr 1.2, I suppose? 07:12 rodarvus (which should be 7.3) 07:12 mjg59 rodarvus: 7.2.1 with luck, but still, no 07:13 rodarvus I thought this bit was about to be generalized into randr 1.2 07:10 cjwatson Keybuk: thanks 07:10 cjwatson I have seb128's update 07:11 cjwatson specs: 07:11 cjwatson * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-codec-installation: spec approved, first version of the library packaged (not uploaded yet, should be soon). Next step is waiting for gstreamer upstream 07:11 cjwatson * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/tab-consistency: 07:11 cjwatson pending approval, not started yet 07:11 cjwatson * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-slab: 07:11 cjwatson pending review, package available to universe 07:11 cjwatson . 07:11 cjwatson Done: 07:11 cjwatson * started catching up on mails backlog 07:11 cjwatson * got debug backtraces for a stack of edgy crashers before updating to 07:11 cjwatson feisty 07:11 cjwatson * started cleaning up the bugs backlog 07:11 cjwatson * started on GNOME 2.17 packaging 07:11 cjwatson . 07:11 cjwatson To do: 07:11 cjwatson * syncs with Debian 07:11 cjwatson * keep catching up with bugs and mails backlog 07:12 cjwatson seb seems well enough sorted, once review happens 07:12 cjwatson Mithrandir: next 07:12 Mithrandir misc: learning the ropes as an archive team member. Doing a few merges, been feeling ill-ish since I got home, so trying to recover. Discussion with mdke about how to handle string changes post-stringfreeze (and in SRUs). 07:12 Mithrandir specs: no progress; I haven't started working on those. 07:12 Mithrandir next week: Herd 1 07:13 cjwatson installer is about two-thirds merged, but ubiquity is going to need some substantial changes for the new partman-auto, so we'll see how well things work for next week 07:13 cjwatson going as fast as I can on that 07:14 Riddell Mithrandir: I'm on holiday next week, I'll ask the other kubuntu developers to help with herd 1, but it may not happen for kubuntu 07:14 Mithrandir Riddell: ok 07:14 Mithrandir cjwatson: I'd be somewhat surprised if we manage to release on time, but I'll try. 07:15 cjwatson Mithrandir: all your specs are approved with the exception of get-rid-of-etc-resolv-conf (not happening?) and grub2 (mostly there last time I checked) 07:15 Mithrandir cjwatson: g-r-o-e-r-c might not be happening; I'd like to discuss it a bit in-person 07:15 Keybuk Mithrandir: that name still scares the willies out of me every time I see it 07:15 cjwatson might make more sense for feisty+1 07:15 Keybuk Ubuntu Herd CD 1 07:16 Keybuk SO WRONG 07:16 Mithrandir grub2 is pending approval, I think it should be fine. 07:16 Mithrandir Keybuk: you read it as Hurd? 07:16 Keybuk Mithrandir: exactly 07:16 rodarvus Mithrandir, FeistyReleaseSchedule doesn't mentions which day the archive will be frozen. Do you have any specific day in mind? 07:16 cjwatson rodarvus: particularly with early releases, it inevitably depends on whether stuff actually works 07:17 cjwatson there's no real point freezing until the installer is in place and the system at least kind of boots sometimes 07:17 Mithrandir rodarvus: usually the day or two days before, but that's a per-release thing. 07:17 cjwatson which I hear has been a bit rocky to date in feisty ;) 07:17 cjwatson ok, thanks Mithrandir 07:17 rodarvus *nods*, I was assuming "if all goes well", of course 07:17 rodarvus thanks 07:17 cjwatson tkamppeter: do you have anything? 07:17 tkamppeter Yes.\ 07:18 tkamppeter Report Nov 3 - Nov 23, 2006 07:18 tkamppeter FEATURES WITH ME INVOLVED: 07:18 tkamppeter https://blueprints.launchpad.net/people/till-kamppeter/+specs 07:18 tkamppeter UDS outcomes: 07:18 tkamppeter - "Easy configuration of printer sharing" -> Accepted 07:18 tkamppeter - "Replace gnome-cups-manager by printerdrake" -> Accepted 07:18 tkamppeter - "Automatic download of printer drivers through the internet" -> Pending 07:18 tkamppeter Approval 07:18 tkamppeter - "Automatic hotplug printer configuration" -> Waits for draft by pitti 07:18 tkamppeter Had no sessions on UDS: 07:18 tkamppeter - "PPDFileStructureSpecification" -> Fixes on Foomatic done to avoid 07:18 tkamppeter duplicate or unusable entries, new FHS extension for printer drivers 07:18 tkamppeter and PPDs (in LSB 3.2) assures that also third-party drivers and PPDs 07:18 tkamppeter integrate well 07:18 tkamppeter - "applications-printing" -> Common printing dialogs and interfaces are 07:18 tkamppeter worked out by Portland and OpenUsability projects, so no application 07:18 tkamppeter hacking for Ubuntu recommended, will appear at the earliest in Feisty+1. 07:18 tkamppeter - "Make PDF "Printer" functionality for CUPS as default" -> Not much missing 07:18 tkamppeter for implementing it, best is to report appropriate bugs against the 07:18 tkamppeter cups-pdf package. 07:18 tkamppeter DONE: 07:18 tkamppeter - Submitted foomatic-db_20061122-0ubuntu1: Fixes bug 19437, bug 39847, 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 19437 in foomatic-db "OKIPage 4W printer problems" [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/19437 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 39847 in ubuntu-meta "ubuntu-desktop should depend on linuxprinting.org-ppds for PostScript PPDs" [Medium,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/39847 07:18 tkamppeter bug 49805, bug 51944, bug 64238, bug 70425, bug 71871, and several bugs 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 49805 in foomatic-db "PPD for LaserJet 6MP does not have an option for auto tray selection" [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/49805 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 51944 in foomatic-db "Brother MFD8820 driver is not present" [Low,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/51944 07:18 tkamppeter reported on http://forums.linuxprinting.org/ 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 64238 in foomatic-db "HP 4240 and 4250 ppd files appear to have syntax errors" [Low,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/64238 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 70425 in foomatic-db "Default driver for Samsung ML-1750 is not "perfect"" [Low,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/70425 07:18 tkamppeter In addition, printer setup tools with direct CUPS support (KDE Printing 07:18 Ubugtu Malone bug 71871 in foomatic-db "Kyocera Mita FS-1010 driver is perhaps incorrect" [Medium,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/71871 07:18 tkamppeter Manager, foomatic-gui, and system-config-printer AFAIR) will not show 07:19 tkamppeter entries for drivers with empty command line prototype. 07:19 tkamppeter - Submitted foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-4ubuntu1: Fixes bug 65618 07:19 Ubugtu Malone bug 65618 in foo2zjs "Firmware upload to LJ 1000/1005/1008/1020 broken (fix to be proposed as Edgy update)" [Medium,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/65618 07:19 tkamppeter - Submitted foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2ubuntu2: Fixes bug 65618 in Edgy 07:19 tkamppeter - Answered to bug reports 07:19 tkamppeter Ubugtu? Where are you? 07:19 tkamppeter linuxprinting.org-ppds is split into linuxprinting.org-ppds (3.5 MB) and linuxprinting.org-ppds-extra (10MB) now, so the most important manufacturer PPDs can go onto the Feisty desktop CDs as linuxprinting.org-ppds. Ready for assessing size increase and putting into the appropriate seeds. 07:20 pitti yay PPD file split :) 07:20 cjwatson pitti is unlikely to have time to work on automatic-printer-conf, from the sounds of things earlier 07:20 pitti tkamppeter: for the record, the package is uploaded, should sit in NEW now 07:20 pitti cjwatson: well, I won't have much time to work on printerdrake code/gui, and we need that for automatic-printer-conf 07:21 pitti a-p-c itself is not much work then (just some g-v-m integration) 07:22 pitti for printerdrake, I have some community members in mind which might want to help 07:22 pitti (ivoks, Kagou) 07:22 cjwatson tkamppeter: re 65618, I think it would be useful if you could please try not to use "tested in Mandriva 2007" as a justification - it doesn't correlate well with working in Ubuntu, particularly in areas like udev that differ a fair bit between distributions 07:22 tkamppeter pitti, I have seen that foomatic-db is uploaded, therefore I have closed the bugs. What is missing is that a person with appropriate rights adds linuxprinting.org-ppds to the seeds for the desktop CDs. 07:22 Ubugtu Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007 07:23 pitti tkamppeter: I thought that was already shipped? 07:23 cjwatson tkamppeter: 65618> note that you must upload to edgy-proposed, not edgy 07:23 cjwatson see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates 07:24 tkamppeter pitti, unfortunately, the PPDs did not make it onto the Edgy desktop CDs, there was some confusion. 07:24 cjwatson tkamppeter: "appropriate rights" => ubuntu-core-dev 07:24 sfllaw tkamppeter: I think we had a discussion about this during UDS. 07:24 sfllaw tkamppeter: Please follow StableReleaseUpdates and all will be good. 07:24 cjwatson ok, we're running short on time; further printing discussion => #ubuntu-devel 07:24 cjwatson sfllaw: anything from you? 07:24 sfllaw Done: 07:24 sfllaw * Specs: 07:24 sfllaw - bug-workflow: Done with input from mpt and bjorn and sabdfl 07:24 sfllaw - scalable-installation-testing: Worked with pitti. Need to spec out UI bits, but that's something I can do this weekend. 07:24 sfllaw * Verification 07:24 sfllaw - xorg: Done 07:25 sfllaw - vino: Doing it now 07:25 sfllaw * Interviewed intern candidates. 07:25 sfllaw To do: 07:25 sfllaw * More verification, since -proposed has stuff waiting. 07:25 sfllaw * Review interviewees and pick [0-2] . 07:25 sfllaw * Bug triage 07:25 fabbione sfllaw: did you get my mail about lvm2/clvm? 07:25 fabbione (SRU dapper/edgy) 07:25 sfllaw fabbione: I didn't specifically notice it. Is it tagged verification-needed? 07:25 sfllaw If so, it will show up on my todo list. 07:25 sfllaw Is it also a priority? 07:25 fabbione sfllaw: yes the bug is 07:25 cjwatson sfllaw: sorry about the vast influx into *-proposed 07:26 sfllaw Well, it could have been worse. 07:26 fabbione sfllaw: i followe SRU and mailed you 07:26 cjwatson I think I've largely cleared the queue now, with the exception of a few more recent requests 07:26 sfllaw Then I will get to it in order. 07:26 sfllaw Important things I will do first, if you ping me about them. 07:26 cjwatson although I haven't yet gone through everything that the SRU team is subscribed to, and there's openoffice.org coming next week 07:27 sfllaw That's going to be a fun one. 07:27 sfllaw Any other questions? 07:27 cjwatson I've been telling all submitters to contact you after accepting their uploads 07:27 cjwatson ok, thanks 07:27 cjwatson zul: anything from you? 07:28 zul this week: 07:28 zul - amd64 xen fixing 07:28 zul - porting paravirt-ops 07:28 zul - kernel monkey collecting patches 07:28 zul next week: 07:28 zul - merges 07:28 zul - testing paravirt-ops 07:28 zul - kernel monkey 07:28 zul specs: 07:28 zul * xen-fiesty - pending approval - need to update spec to mention paravirt-ops 07:28 cjwatson porting paravirt-ops> does that assume that we're going with 2.6.19 rather than 2.6.20? I understood that if we went with 2.6.20 we got it for free 07:29 zul yes 2.6.20 should have it 07:29 zul 2.6.19 is for me to test it and get acquainted with it 07:29 cjwatson ok 07:30 cjwatson right, any other business? 07:30 zul also if something breaks on the xen side the theorty is we can get it fixed quite quickly 07:30 cjwatson going once 07:30 cjwatson going twice 07:31 Keybuk WAIT! 07:31 Keybuk just kidding 07:31 cjwatson adjourned. Remember everyone, all specs for feisty to be approved by next Thursday. 07:31 pitti thanks all! 07:31 mvo thanks everyone 07:32 fabbione thanks *
MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev-2006-11-23 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:30:13 by localhost)