Ubuntu Wiki

09:03   mdz     cjwatson: you're first up
09:03   cjwatson        setup-console-under-usplash: Bug 73955 appears to be graphics-card-specific and probably something wrong either in the kernel or in X. I think I've narrowed it down to one ioctl. Help?
Ubugtu  Malone bug 73955 in console-setup "Clobbered X screen state during installation" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73955
09:03   cjwatson        increase-hwdb-participation: pitti, did you get a chance to look at this?
09:04   pitti   cjwatson: yes, I did; I have a small snippet in my report about hwdb
09:03   cjwatson        ubiquity-more-user-info: Punted to admin RT last night.
09:04   cjwatson        scalable-installation-testing: Provided some feedback on this with my installer hat on, as promised last week.
09:04   cjwatson        misc: Herd 1 help; installer now basically works modulo a few glitches. Ported ubiquity to the new partman-auto today, which gets rid of one of the autopartitioning pages on multiple-disk systems. Spent some time trying to cram ext2 resize_inode support into libparted so that we can resize the type of filesystem we now create by default (!), but not finished yet. Made a start on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment (comments welcome).
09:04   cjwatson        next-week: Finish first cut at InstallerDevelopment and start pushing for community involvement in installer work. Get back to ubiquity-advanced-partitioner.
09:04   cjwatson        er ... /misc/s/today/yesterday/. Yay relativity.
09:04   mdz     cjwatson: since you've already got one item in RT, would you mind taking responsibility for chasing devel-list?
09:05   cjwatson        mdz: righto
09:05   mdz     I emailed about it last week but haven't heard back
09:05   mdz     I'll forward a copy of the email
09:05   cjwatson        thanks
09:05   Keybuk  cjwatson: I have playing with setup-console on my todo list
09:05   cjwatson        Keybuk: does it break for you?
09:05   Keybuk  cjwatson: it has done
09:06   mdz     Keybuk: could you help cjwatson by reviewing InstallerDevelopment?
09:07   cjwatson        I know it needs more detail but I don't have perspective to know where
09:07   Keybuk  of course
09:08   mdz     cjwatson: ok, thanks

09:08   mdz     heno: next
09:08   heno    DONE:
09:08   heno    * access-gdm: Worked with artist on new High Contrast GDM theme. Discussions with GDM maintainer and MacSlow about accessible login.
09:08   heno    * common-at-conf: mock-ups of new config interface. Discussions with Gnome AT community. http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/flexi-at-conf-2.png
09:08   heno    * multilingual-speech: Decided on how to support eSpeak in Orca (write a gnome-speech driver for eSpeak). Planing a community initiative to create more/improve local language voices for eSpeak. Worked on the Norwegian voice files to learn the ropes and define the process.
09:08   heno    TODO:
09:08   heno    * access-gdm: Work out details on how to make GDM/Facebrowser accessible _without_ using AT-SPI.
09:08   heno    * color-filters: Investigate UI requirements for controlling colour filters in gnome-mag.
09:08   heno    * multilingual-speech: Complete design of the voice creation process and launch the localisation project.
09:08   heno    * General a11y testing: It seems bug 74249 has just been resolved, alowing testing with AT-SPI to proceed
Ubugtu  Malone bug 74249 in at-spi "Bug when we start Feisty : trouble with at-spi" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74249
09:10   mdz     heno: weren't there a few bits of edgy a11y specs which didn't quite make the cut?
09:10   mdz     are those being carried over or abandoned?
09:10   heno    like the sudo atspi spec, that is being folded in now
09:11   heno    other thinks like spoken boot have a very low priority
09:11   heno    a very small user group and would need to be done by Luke if he wants it
09:11   heno    sometimes things also just turn out not to be a good idea
09:12   mdz     heno: indeed, just checking. we'll review in more detail on the phone
09:13   heno    mdz: good I'll look back at the old specs
09:11   dholbach        heno: for sudo atspi, I'm going to subscribe the ubuntu-a11y-devel list to the upstream bugs we're having currently
09:12   seb128  gdm upstream just made that change:
09:12   seb128  "Now all GDM GUI's are run as the gdm user.  This change ensures
09:12   seb128    that all GDM GUI's can talk to the at-spi-registryd that is
09:12   seb128    running.  This change involved making the forked slave talk
09:12   seb128    to the the GDM daemon so that the dialogs can be displayed."
09:12   seb128  not sure if that's revelant
09:12   seb128  just mentioning it
09:12   heno    seb128: right, I wonder how well that will work in reality
09:13   mdz     seb128: sounds better than running as root
09:13   mdz     heno: ok, thanks

09:13   mdz     mvo: next?
09:13   mvo     Did:
09:13   mvo     * work on the AutomaticUpgradeTesting
09:13   mvo     * LSB meeting/packaging sumit Berlin (Mo-We):
09:13   mvo       gave two presentations
09:13   mvo     * apt work:
09:13   mvo       - fix crash in pkgSrcRecords::Binaries
09:13   mvo       - fix bug in pdiff method
09:13   mvo     Will do:
09:13   mvo     - look at the AdeptFeistyChanges spec
09:13   mvo     - merges
09:13   mvo     - work on CommonCustomizations
09:13   mvo     - catchup on the BUGS
09:15   mdz     mvo: is dynamic-mirror-decisions sorted now?
09:15   mvo     mdz: sorted in what way? [...] there is a step-by-step plan in the wiki and its approved :)
09:16   mdz     mvo: I mean incorporating the changes I requested via email
09:16   mdz     (just rescoping a bit)
09:17   mdz     oh, I may have sent that after you had left for the day
09:17   mvo     mdz: I'm not aware of the mail, but haven't looked through my inbox this morning
09:18   mdz     mvo: ok, thanks. shouldn't need substantial changes just reshuffling a bit
09:16   mdz     mvo: anything interesting at the summit? an email summary to distro-team would be appreciated
09:17   mvo     mdz: the sumit was intessting, especially the lsb packaging discussion
09:17   mvo     I will send a mail
09:17   doko    mvo: please drop notices when merging packages not assigned to you (generally it's welcome, but duplicating work is not)
09:18   mvo     doko: sorry
09:18   mdz     mvo: thanks

09:19   mdz     Mithrandir: next
09:19   Mithrandir      misc: herd 1 release, archive administration
09:19   Mithrandir      network-roaming: some discussion with pitti about how it interacts with his zeroconf spec; no real progress
09:19   Mithrandir      changelog-closes-bugs: trying to convince Debian that our approach is sensible, but no other progress
09:19   Mithrandir      grub2: installed and played with grub2, it seems to work, but its hook scripts requires a bit of work.
09:19   Mithrandir      next week: more archive admin, update to new network-manager and do our changes there (per network-roaming)
09:19   Mithrandir      (oh, and I need to actually add the herd dates I discussed with Colin on the release schedule)
09:19   Keybuk  what do Debian want us to do instead?
09:20   Mithrandir      Keybuk: Guillem seems to want one syntax which is common to all cases.
09:20   mdz     Mithrandir: do you have a target date for herd CD 2?
09:20   Mithrandir      mdz: two week from now.
09:20   mdz     Mithrandir: please add it to the wiki schedule. I see there's a milestone in launchpad already
09:20   Mithrandir      mdz: at least I think so.  That is, it will probably be after xmas since I'm going on vacation on the 19th
09:20   Mithrandir      mdz: yeah, I added the milestone so jbailey can target certification bugs to it
09:21   mdz     Mithrandir: is that testing happening now?
09:21   Mithrandir      mdz: I've requested it, I just got in, so I'm not sure if it has actually happened yet.
09:21   Mithrandir      mdz: I'll follow that up with Jeff/cr3
09:21   pitti   OMG, another herd in two weeks? that seems to consume an enormous time of work
09:21   seb128  and again the same week as a new GNOME
09:21   mdz     seb128: sounds like you and Mithrandir should chat about the timing
09:22   mdz     pitti: the first one is surely the hardest
09:22   pitti   although, in two weeks it's almost christmas and few people will be there for testing etc.
09:22   mdz     and it will be >2 weeks from the sound of it
09:22   cjwatson        AIUI we're going for 3 weeks normally but that collides with Christmas this time
09:22   Mithrandir      pitti: hence it might very well end up being the first week of January instead.
09:22   pitti   Mithrandir: right
09:22   Mithrandir      cjwatson: yeah, and we need to fudge around that somehow.
09:22   cjwatson        this one was hard because we froze too early; the installer wasn't ready yet.
09:23   cjwatson        note for future Foo 1s
09:23   Mithrandir      it's always hard to know when to freeze; much easier to see the sweet spot in retrospect.
09:23   mdz     and easier to judge when we have a todo list for next time, thanks cjwatson
09:24   mdz     Mithrandir: ok, thanks

09:24   mdz     Riddell: next
09:25   Riddell done:
09:25   Riddell * holiday
09:25   Riddell * Herd testing
09:25   Riddell * SRUs, universe merges, language pack testing, other odd bits
09:25   Riddell * kubuntu-feisty-language-selector: Qt 4 port done, usability changes half way
09:25   Riddell todo:
09:25   Riddell * finnish kubuntu-feisty-language-selector, start kubuntu-feisty-ubiquity qt4 port
09:25   Riddell specs:
09:25   Riddell * kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant and kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes needing approval, cjwatson and mvo pinged
09:25   Riddell other:
09:25   Riddell * no idea what's happening with artists, sabdfl not replying
09:25   mdz     I have a call with sabdfl in <10 hours, will chase him on artwork
09:26   mdz     Riddell: what's the question you have for him?
09:26   Riddell mdz: if nuno and/or ken will get contracts to do artwork for feisty (as seemed to be suggested at UDS)
09:26   cjwatson        k-u-m-a is on my queue
09:26   cjwatson        (still)
09:26   Riddell great
09:27   mdz     Riddell: universe merges?
09:27   Riddell mdz: the ones with my name on them, they all turned out to be syncs
09:27   mvo     Riddell: is your language-selector branch on launchpad?
09:28   Riddell mvo: yes, branch is called kubuntu-feisty-language-selector
09:28   mdz     Riddell: is main all merged up now for KDE?
09:28   Riddell mdz: I need to check back on some stuff adept that was blocking on cmake being in main, but everything else was done before the herd freeze
09:29   pitti   ah, yeah, I need to do a MIR session
09:29   cjwatson        cmake's in main now
09:30   mdz     cjwatson: yeah, needs merging according to MOM
09:30   Riddell cjwatson: I saw, thanks
09:29   mdz     Riddell: ok, thanks

09:29   mdz     sfllaw: ready?
09:29   sfllaw  Done
09:29   sfllaw  * Decided on two interns, doing the paperwork for that
09:29   sfllaw  * Interviewed another intern
09:29   sfllaw  * More SRU approvals: Kopete
09:29   sfllaw  * Bug triage
09:29   sfllaw  * E-mail testers who volunteered to help with Herd 1.
09:29   sfllaw  To do
09:29   sfllaw  * SRU: mdadm (bug 74346)
Ubugtu  Malone bug 74346 in mdadm "[edgy sru]  multiple mdadm fixes" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74346
09:29   sfllaw  * Get computers for interns
09:29   sfllaw  * Get interns to sign paperwork
09:29   sfllaw  * Bug triage
09:29   sfllaw  * Wiki documentation for Ubuntu QA
09:29   sfllaw  * UbuntuHugDay to get people signed into Ubuntu QA.
09:29   sfllaw  Blockers:
09:29   sfllaw  * synaptic is not ready for -proposed (bug 65553, bug 67146)
Ubugtu  Malone bug 65553 in synaptic "Synaptic Crashes when changing fonts" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65553
Ubugtu  Malone bug 67146 in synaptic "synaptic pinning/locking does not work" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67146
09:30   mvo     sfllaw: I uploaded the two synaptic fixes to -proposed some time ago?
09:30   sfllaw  mvo: I think cjwatson rejected them.
09:31   mvo     right, that was even more time ago, I uploaded another one
09:30   cjwatson        SRU suggestion: Simon mails ubuntu-archive@lists when verification is done?
09:30   cjwatson        just off the top of my head, but might smooth the process to -updates
09:31   sfllaw  If you think it will help, I can do that.
09:31   mdz     sfllaw: what kind of hours are the interns putting in?  I assume you'll work from the office with them?
09:31   sfllaw  Standard 9-5.
09:31   sfllaw  Monday-Wednesday.
09:31   sfllaw  15 Jan to 2 May.
09:31   cjwatson        sfllaw: no, they're still there
09:31   cjwatson          113267 | S- | synaptic             | 0.57.11ubuntu12.1    | five weeks
09:31   cjwatson                 | * synaptic/0.57.11ubuntu12.1 Component: main Section: admin
09:31   cjwatson          137106 | S- | synaptic             | 0.57.11ubuntu12.1    | nine days
09:31   cjwatson                 | * synaptic/0.57.11ubuntu12.1 Component: main Section: admin
09:31   cjwatson        we need to reject one of those, yes :)
09:31   sfllaw  cjwatson: Can you and mvo work it out?
09:32   cjwatson        yes
09:32   mvo     cjwatson: reject the old please (I though it was already rejected)
09:32   cjwatson        mvo: done
09:32   mdz     sfllaw: do you have tasks planned for them?  both bug triage and CD image testing seem like good targets
09:32   sfllaw  Thanks.
09:32   sfllaw  mdz: I've got two of them I'm thinking of doing bug triage and CD image testing.
09:32   sfllaw  mdz: One of them can program (!) so we were thinking of doing those automated test cases you've been bugging cr3 about.
09:32   mvo     cjwatson: thanks, if you could accept/review the other one soon, that would be great :)
09:33   cjwatson        open in my browser now
09:33   mdz     sounds like they'll miss herd 2, but you should have time to train them for herd 3
09:33   sfllaw  They seem bright, so they should pick it up quickly.
09:34   sfllaw  I've asked jbailey to look into buying hardware so we'll be ready for them come Januaray.
09:34   sfllaw  So I think things can go smoothly, if we are allowed to buy it.
09:34   mdz     sfllaw: please make notes of their questions as they learn and use those to improve the documentation, as it's useful for the community as well
09:34   sfllaw  mdz: I plan on making them update the wiki as they learn things.
09:35   mdz     or that
09:35   mdz     sfllaw: thanks

09:35   mdz     kylem: next
09:35   kylem   Done
09:35   kylem       *  received core-dev status.
09:35   kylem       * dapper-security kernel: backed out netfilter abi breaking change.
09:35   kylem       * wrote new patch for above, sent upstream for verification.
09:35   kylem       * sky2 backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates.
09:35   kylem       * tg3 backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates.
09:35   kylem       * fix tso support in tg3 backport.
09:35   kylem       * dapper-security, edgy-security uploaded by ben.
09:35   kylem   To do
09:35   kylem       * forcedeth backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates.
09:35   kylem       * figure out why my uploads were discarded.
09:36   sfllaw  kylem: Thanks for responding to EtienneG's support case so quickly.
09:36   kylem   sfllaw, np. ah ok.
09:36   pitti   kylem: btw, I didn't see a new dapper kernel upload yet
09:36   pitti   (in case it got dropped on the way)
09:37   pitti   kylem: Rejected: The key (0x7EB792DF191FCD8A) used to sign linux-source-2.6.15_2.6.15-27.50_source.changes wasn't found in the keyring(s).
09:37   kylem   pitti, heh, first i uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com by mistake, the second time i uploaded to security. and never heard back, so benc guessed something was up, i think he'll upload until i get it sorted.
09:38   cjwatson        -security has separate keyrings, I believe; ping elmo to have those updated
09:38   mdz     cjwatson: s/elmo/RT/ surely
09:38   BenC    pitti: I don't think his key is able to do security
09:38   pitti   it should be
09:38   pitti   worked instantly for Kees, but might need check with elmo
09:37   mdz     kylem: those backports are going to -proposed rather than -updates, right?
09:37   kylem   mdz, correct, sorry, the -updates is just the tree name
09:37   mdz     understood, thanks

09:38   mdz     pitti: next
09:38   pitti   Done:
09:38   pitti   * merges for main: almost all done, remaining ones are hairy (apache2: infinity asked me not to merge 2.2 yet, enigmail: we have to permanently fork due to Debian's icedove madness, linux-wlan-ng: Debian has a SVN snapshot instead of stable release, have to evaluate); merge of ia32-libs has been traded with doko in exchange for php5 and gettext
09:38   pitti   * merges for universe still outstanding, but I only have a few and they look easy (mostly stuff from library transitions)
09:38   pitti   * zero-configuration-networking: added the 'ipv4ll' ifupdown method, added support for this to gnome-system-tools & friends, taught network-manager to play along with avahi-autoipd; 95% finished, have fun! the only outstanding bits are: ubuntu-meta update to bring avahi-autoipd to ubuntu-desktop, and introducing the desktop notification about a disabled avahi due to an unicast .local domain <- I'd like to discuss how that should look like with
09:38   pitti   some interested people, anyone?
09:38   pitti   * gnome-mount: added proper policy check to hal mount backend (prerequisite of starting with mount-all-local-filesystems), discussed security improvements with sjoerd; came to the conclusion that we can't do better than trusting the main hal daemon for information, so there's nothing we can improve further; remaining TODOs: discuss degnomeification with Xubuntu guys, wait for udev-device-mapper to get implemented to get mounting of encrypted devices right
09:38   pitti   * no work on other specs, just quickly discussed Malone cloakroom with Bjorn; it's not there yet, thus bug-reporting-tool is blocked for now
09:39   pitti   * prepared g-s-t/s-t-backends/couple of applets SRU for edgy's gnome-system-tools authentication problem, awaiting approval from mdz
09:39   pitti   * new dapper/edgy langpacks to -proposed, asked for testing feedback on -translators@; looks good so far
09:39   pitti   * misc: lots of IRC talks on fresher's day (OpenWeek was great, btw!), CD testing for herd-1
09:39   pitti   * I looked at increase-hwdb-participation; doesn't look too complicated, I'm just swamped with specs; the notification part is a bit tricky due to the system wide state, also we need to put it into some gnome package to get the i18n infrastructure for free; in fact this problem is very similar to the avahi disabling notification (mvo: I! want! event-notifier! now, now, now! ;-) ); since this isn't a prerequisite of other specs and relatively easy, is it ok to defer this a little towards end of January?
09:39   pitti   Todo:
09:39   pitti   * finish remaining bits of zero-configuration-networking implementation
09:39   pitti   * finish mount-all-local-filesystems
09:39   pitti   * next Tuesday: dapper/edgy langpacks to -updates if all goes well
09:39   pitti   * change dapper's and edgy's ~/.xsession-errors rotation handling to new plan of mdz (I'd like to discuss this again interactively, I don't really like that solution)
09:39   mdz     pitti,*: please note that cjwatson is on point for SRUs
09:40   mdz     I'm not processing them directly atm
09:40   pitti   mdz: oh, alright
09:40   pitti   cjwatson: I added ubuntu-sru to the bug report, is that enough or should I rather mail you directly?
09:40   cjwatson        ubuntu-sru's perfect
09:42   cjwatson        pitti: I missed your SRU because somebody set it to fix-committed; please leave it as in-progress at most until the -proposed upload has been accepted
09:43   mdz     the SRU wiki page has been updated a bit
09:43   seb128  pitti: bug status are documented on the wiki page now
09:43   cjwatson        we've been tuning the SRU workflow as we go
09:43   mdz     cjwatson: maybe worth emailing a summary of the diff to -devel-announce
09:43   mdz     now or once it stabilizes, or both
09:43   cjwatson        will do
09:43   pitti   cjwatson: ah, ok; still learning the optimal workflow
09:40   cjwatson        pitti: increase-hwdb-participation> I'm mostly just looking for somebody to assign it to :-) I don't mind when you schedule it provided that you can fit it in somewhere
09:41   pitti   I can certainly fit it in until January, but only at the expense of cutting down on another spec
09:40   Riddell cjwatson: katapult has a patch waiting for sru btw
09:41   cjwatson        Riddell: noted
09:41   cjwatson        I can't use my own +subscribedbugs as a to-do list because it's too big, but I can use ubuntu-sru's
09:41   mdz     pitti: the zero-conf-net stuff isn't dependent on network-manager, right?
09:41   pitti   mdz: no, it isn't
09:41   pitti   I'm done with n-m for zeroconf now
09:41   pitti   and the patch wasn't really intrusive
09:41   mdz     but they are compatible now
09:42   pitti   mdz: right, n-m has its own implementation of ipv4ll address assignment, I needed to disable that
09:42   mdz     pitti: we have a commitment from kiko to deliver the cloakroom by early January
09:42   mdz     pitti: that should leave enough time to complete it for feature freeze, yes?
09:42   pitti   mdz: yes, I hope so; and I can start early with the GUI side
09:42   mdz     pitti: ok, yes, please block only as much as necessary
09:44   pitti   mdz: wrt ~/.xsession-errors handling, can we have a quick discussion at the end?
09:44   mdz     pitti: with the team, or just me?
09:44   pitti   with the team preferably, to collect opinions
09:43   mdz     pitti: thanks

09:43   mdz     BenC: next
09:44   BenC    :: Specs
09:44   BenC    * driver-device-manager: Had phone converstation with Keybuk to discuss the kernel/udev interface for this. Have started coding the kernel changes needed. Once that is in place, the actual UI implementation can be finished.
09:44   BenC    * driver-backports: Still in pending approval (poke mdz), but work has begun. Some of the features for this depends on the udev/kernel work for driver-device-manager (driver preference).
09:44   BenC    :: Kernel Work
09:44   BenC    * Started syncing for 2.6.20. So far merges have gone fairly well. Kernel is compiling for all architectures.
09:44   BenC    * Debugging ata_piix regression on ich6 variants.
09:44   BenC    * Also noticed a soft-lockup on a P4 system. Debugging is slow due to nature of bug.
09:44   BenC    * Relocation of Ubuntu kernel git repo's to a single kernel-team accessible location on rookery. This will eventually be expanded to a public repository, complete with git-web access.
09:44   BenC    * Intel enabling (paperwork only)
09:44   BenC    :: Work for next week
09:44   BenC    * Main priority right now is getting 2.6.20 pre kernel into feisty.
09:44   BenC    * Once kernel is uploaded, move all 2.6.19 bugs to linux-source-2.6.20 and ping for revalidation.
09:44   BenC    * Fix kernel regression with gdb attaching to PID's.
09:44   BenC    * Still have a few merges to take care of, but I need the kernel to settle down before I start mucking with the tools that build it.
09:45   Keybuk  BenC: I'm happy to trial any kernel patches you have -- as I'll need to do the udev changes
09:45   mdz     BenC: I had a quick look at driver-backports and it needs more detail; iirc we had agreed on the specifics and they just need to be written down
09:45   BenC    mdz: Ok, will get that done tomorrow
09:45   mdz     BenC: e.g. the placement of the modules and that arrangements will be made to prefer the backported ones
09:46   mdz     BenC: does driver-device-manager overlap with the work we discussed to allow for new PCI IDs to be added in userspace?
09:46   BenC    mdz: Yeah
09:47   BenC    it oerlaps for PCI id's and driver preference (like for driver-backports)
09:47   mdz     oh, should probably be linked from driver-backports then
09:47   pitti   BenC: I need your help with apport-improvements (the core_pattern pipe fix and the core PAM limit); is it possible to cram that into your schedule?
09:47   BenC    pitti: Sure, ping me sometime in the next couple of days, I'll make time
09:47   Keybuk  mdz: we have a master plan that allows us to fix several problems with one hefty stone
09:48   BenC    s/master plan/plan to take over the world/
09:48   mdz     Keybuk: ok, I'm interested in the details via email later
09:48   mdz     BenC: thanks

09:48   mdz     seb128: nexkt
09:48   seb128  Done:
09:48   seb128  * GNOME 2.17.3
09:48   seb128  * merged GNOME packages with Debian while updating them
09:48   seb128  * bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
09:48   seb128  * contacted tracker upstream about package for Ubuntu, somebody is working on it for Debian and has a first set of packages available, waiting on 0.5.3 to fix some copyright issues before uploading
09:48   seb128  * tested desktop CD candidate for herd1
09:48   seb128  * caught up with mails backlog
09:48   seb128  Next week:
09:49   seb128  * bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
09:49   seb128  * get tracker uploaded
09:49   seb128  * keep doing merges with Debian
09:49   seb128  Note:
09:49   seb128  * The one week freeze has been annoying to work with, especially because "apt-get source" gives outdated packages during a freeze (somebody might have already done work on the same package and you doesn't get that version), could we freeze binaries instead of sources or make sources available from somewhere during a freeze?
09:49   mdz     seb128: just the few merges listed on MOM remaining for main?
09:49   seb128  yep
09:50   seb128  cairo is blocked on directfb (BenC should do it)
09:50   mdz     seb128: any leads on that bug we were chasing yesterday with gnome-session?
09:50   mdz     bug(s) that is
09:50   seb128  not yet, I've been sleeping mostly since
09:50   cjwatson        I'd be happy with the UNAPPROVED queue being fetchable by people on the team who can upload to it
09:50   cjwatson        unfortunately Soyuz can't do queue fetching through the web UI at all yet
09:50   Mithrandir      cjwatson: as part of development freezes, we could rsync it somewhere and run apt-ftparchive over it?
09:50   Mithrandir      like, rookery.
09:51   Mithrandir      as a workaround.
09:51   cjwatson        Mithrandir: would be fine by me. Care to hack it up?
09:51   Mithrandir      cjwatson: will do.
09:51   pitti   I think an apt-ftparchive'd unapproved deb-src queue would be enough for most purposes, at least for me
09:51   mdz     seb128: freezing binaries only sounds interesting, but presumably would require LP implementation work
09:51   mdz     Keybuk: can MOM pay attention to unapproved as well?
09:51   Keybuk  mdz: provided there's an APT archive for it, sure
09:52   pitti   seb128: ^ what do you think?
09:52   seb128  I would like to get builds keep going if possible
09:52   Mithrandir      pitti: given that unapproved doesn't have binaries, just sources, it'd be a sources-only thing, yes.
09:52   seb128  that would avoid having a massive building of everything after unfreezing
09:52   mdz     seb128: I think that would need to be implemented in soyuz
09:52   cjwatson        it would, and it's tricky from an archive admin point of view too
09:52   seb128  but having sources available would be a really good start
09:52   mdz     seb128: have a chat with infinity about it and see, but I think it will be a long way off
09:53   cjwatson        easier to let through sources in one go than binaries (which arrive in dribs and drabs over time)
09:53   seb128  that would avoid conflicting on work
09:53   seb128  mdz: ok
09:53   Mithrandir      Mark has spoken about being able to do short-lived pockets or branches or writable snapshots or what you'd call it to ease this pain, but we won't see it in the near future, I believe.
09:53   mdz     seb128: thanks

09:53   mdz     dholbach: next
09:53   dholbach        Done:
09:53   dholbach        * GNOME 2.17.3 (most of it)
09:53   dholbach        * merges
09:53   dholbach        * trying to catch up with bugs
09:53   dholbach        * art-builder-improvements: deployed and announced art-builder (half way through high-prio items)
09:53   dholbach        * feisty-telepathy: no efforts from the team on landell and teletpathy-wildy yet, seems I have to do it myself
09:53   dholbach        * some motu mentoring
09:53   dholbach        Todo:
09:53   dholbach        * trying harder to catch up with bugs
09:53   dholbach        * more merges
09:53   dholbach        * fix some issues with the art builder
09:53   dholbach        * motu documentation clean up, organisation
09:53   dholbach        
09:53   sfllaw  dholbach: Your MOTU/SRU work has been good.
09:53   seb128  dholbach: "most of it", heh, I did some too :p
09:55   dholbach        seb128: I know you did - I should have said "we're mostly through now - everybody give seb128 a big hand" :-)
09:56   seb128  dholbach: I'm scared by your big hand :p
09:54   mdz     dholbach: anyone using the art builder now?
09:54   dholbach        mdz: somebody signed up for the team and needs a helping hand
09:54   dholbach        but that's just one
09:54   dholbach        I'll talk to James Troy about it
09:55   dholbach        sfllaw: I'm don't do the actual work on the motu-sru team - I "just" helped to put the team of people together
09:55   mdz     dholbach: also make sure sabdfl knows it is ready for use, he'll help spread the word
09:55   dholbach        mdz: alrighty
09:55   mdz     dholbach: thanks

09:55   mdz     iwj: next
09:55   iwj     Done:
09:55   iwj     udev-lvm: read the code in lvm2 and also got to grips with udev (of which I was previously ignorant).  Installed and broke feisty a few times (mainly by playing with partitions).  Half-done.
09:55   iwj     GnomeAppInstallCodecs: looked at various packages including codecs etc. so I know where to change things.  This is now blocked on new feature for gst-inspect.
09:55   iwj     Will do next week:
09:55   iwj     udev-lvm: Finish it off although integration testing will have to wait.
09:55   iwj     consistent-login-screen: need to read the code and play with gdm et al to make sure there aren't any hidden gotchas
09:56   iwj     package-dependency-field-breaks: rerun my search for candidates and send an announcement too, to get people to start using it
09:56   iwj     winmodem-support: read up on what's available and decide what to do for feisty
09:56   iwj     I'm on holiday starting from the 14th and will be back on the 2nd.
09:56   iwj     seb128: Do you think you could pass me some contact details for the gstreamer guys ?  I feel a bit out of the loop, having to send mails via you (who are busy) etc.
09:56   mdz     iwj: udev-lvm says Not started in LP
09:57   iwj     Oh, I haven't been setting the implementation status in LP.
09:57   iwj     I should have done that for this meeting.  Sorry.
09:57   seb128  iwj: ups, sorry I didn't reply to your mail yet, I've been catching up with old mails and not looked at new ones yet
09:57   seb128  iwj: #gstreamer guys are responsive and nice usually
09:57   iwj     seb128: Fair enough, thanks.
09:57   iwj     Noted.
09:57   mdz     seb128: the guy from UDS who was working on it went on holiday
09:57   mdz     I think he's back around ow
09:58   seb128  mdz: right, I know, you forwarded me that mail ;)
09:57   cjwatson        iwj: a reminder to -devel-announce that Breaks is ready for use might not hurt
09:57   iwj     cjwatson: Yes, exactly.
09:58   cjwatson        with a description of when one might want to use it
09:58   cjwatson        oh, "send an announcement"
09:58   cjwatson        sorry, I can't read at 9am apparently
09:58   mdz     iwj: please update the status on automated-testing-deployment as well
09:58   iwj     mdz: Willdo.
09:58   seb128  speaking about break, does apt manages it?
09:58   mdz     seb128: and you read it better than I did ;-)
09:58   iwj     seb128: Yes.
09:58   seb128  I used Breaks for the e-d-s update
09:58   seb128  and apt-get -f install was not able to remove the old evolution
09:59   seb128  it was just complaining about the break
09:58   Keybuk  seb128: talking of which, that's stuck on hold for me <g>
09:59   cjwatson        Breaks isn't supposed to cause removal ...
09:59   seb128  hum
09:59   cjwatson        it causes deconfiguration
09:59   seb128  I did dpkg -i new_eds
09:59   seb128  and I was expecting apt-get still working then
09:59   mdz     it should only deconfigure temporarily
09:59   seb128  but it didn't
09:59   iwj     Let's take that offline.
09:59   seb128  ok
09:59   mdz     yes
09:59   mdz     iwj: thanks

09:59   mdz     Keybuk: next
10:00   Keybuk  Done:
10:00   Keybuk  - couple of days holiday
10:00   Keybuk  - started work on upstart changes needed for feisty
10:00   Keybuk  - some landscape trialling
10:00   Keybuk  Todo:
10:00   Keybuk  - pretty much everything else ;)
10:00   Keybuk  - holiday from 18th thru 2nd (yay using up leave allowance)
10:00   Keybuk  Specs:
10:00   Keybuk  - udev-device-mapper, udev-evms, udev-mdadm: not started yet, will be much easier to test once some of the upstart bits are in place
10:00   Keybuk  - slick-boot: Colin's done the console changes, need to test those and make any adjustments necessary
10:00   Keybuk  - replacement-initscripts: needs upstart changes. which have begun
10:00   Keybuk  - new-pci-ids: having discussions with Ben about fixing the world to make this possible
10:00   Keybuk  - accelerated-x: hijacked as discussed with mdz
10:00   Keybuk  - automake-transition: implemented
10:00   mdz     Keybuk: how much more of slick-boot is feistyable?
10:01   Keybuk  mdz: it's a no-op spec
10:01   mdz     since that's an overview spec iirc, it's not entirely clear how it's targeted
10:01   Keybuk  right
10:01   Keybuk  it's mostly just "do what we were doing anyway"
10:01   Keybuk  Colin's console-setup changes should be the bulk of it
10:02   mdz     Keybuk: and it's still pending approval; pinged sabdfl?
10:02   Keybuk  mdz: yeah
10:02   Keybuk  tbh, I'm not too worried; the "real" spec is approved <g>
10:02   mdz     ok
10:02   mdz     Keybuk: thanks

10:02   mdz     doko: next
10:02   doko    - ill for two days
10:02   doko    - merges and sync requests for main (mostly finished)
10:02   doko    - openoffice.org for edgy-proposed
10:02   doko    - lsb face to face meeting; the agenda was changed, so I did miss
10:02   doko      the discussion about python in lsb; joined the discussion about
10:02   doko      C++ / libstdc++ in LSB.
10:03   doko    - no specific progress on specs, python-roadmap needs to be reviewed again.
10:03   doko    - priority for next week: prepare change to python2.5 as the default
10:04   mdz     cjwatson: that reminds me, what was the story with gnome-btdownload?
10:04   mdz     the seed bzr log seemed to imply that it had an alternative dependency on python2.5, but I didn't see one
10:04   cjwatson        doko: the reason I thought python-support was being dropped on the floor was chiefly that the spec mentions python-central but not python-support (plus what you told me in the lift)
10:04   cjwatson        mdz: that dependency is from bittorrent
10:04   mdz     ah, I see
10:04   cjwatson        mdz: bug 74514 is the story
Ubugtu  Malone bug 74514 in germinate "doesn't handle versioned dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74514
10:04   mdz     thanks
10:05   mdz     oh, saw that bit, yes
10:05   doko    cjwatson: yeah, I need to be more specific about the implementation as well, therefore I splitted it out
10:05   mdz     but didn't see the corresponding dependency
10:05   mdz     doko: feeling better now?
10:05   doko    mdz: yes, thanks :) still on drugs
10:05   cjwatson        it should go away naturally once we switch to python2.5, although I wouldn't mind taking the opportunity to fix the bug while it's still manifest
10:05   cjwatson        if I feel the urge today I'll poke at it
10:06   mdz     doko: ok, thanks
10:06   mdz     any further status updates?
10:06   mdz     pitti wanted to have a quick discussion about ~/.xsession-errors; if you don't have strong opinions on that and it's late at night for you, you're excused
10:06   sfllaw  Can I ask everyone to put their status updates on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20061207 page?
10:06   sfllaw  Just for summary purposes?
10:06   sfllaw  Thanks.
10:06   pitti   will do

10:07   mdz     pitti: go ahead
10:07   pitti   so, I have a small snippet for that:
10:07   pitti   The issue is about bug 60448; we need to make our handling of ~/.xsession-errors consistent
10:07   pitti   - gdm has always just removed the entire file on login
10:07   pitti   - with kdm/xdm, dapper did never remove/truncate the file, which caused disk space DoS with programs where logging has gone wild
10:07   pitti   - in edgy, we mitigated that by truncating the file to .5 MB on login
10:07   pitti   - mdz proposed to change that fix in edgy to mv the file to .old and rm the .old file, and do the same in dapper; it is more consistant with what we do in /var/log, but my objection
10:07   pitti   is that this would make the 'full disk' problem worse, not better for the next login attempt (i. e. it takes two logins to clean up)
Ubugtu  Malone bug 60448 in xinit ".xsession_errors file grows out of control & saturates disk space" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60448
10:08   mdz     if the disk is quite full, then attempting to copy part of the file will fail
10:08   pitti   so we should agree to one strategy of handling the file and implement it consistently across all *dms and releases
10:08   mdz     we rotate all other logs by renaming, and it's nice and simple, so that's my preference
10:08   mdz     rotating it should prevent it from ever filling the disk in the first place
10:09   pitti   the problem in that bug was that someone never really logged out
10:09   pitti   so none of this is an actual solution to that, but it should clean up itself with a session restart
10:09   mdz     any opinions from the crowd?
10:09   iwj     mdz: No, he means if some program goes mad and spews crap until the disk gets full.
10:10   mdz     iwj: in that case, renaming is still OK, since it will clobber .old and free enough space to login
10:10   pitti   I think we can solve the 'disk space for temporary truncated file' problem, if we want to do that
10:10   iwj     I think if the log is too big (whatever that means) then just truncating it is probably fine.
10:10   mdz     I ack that it's sub-optimal that the rotation is not time-limited
10:11   Burgundavia     is there anything of value in .xsession-errors to both to keep it around? it seems mine is filled with noise from various apps, something I know people have complained about in the past
10:11   Mithrandir      Burgundavia: yes.
10:12   Burgundavia     Mithrandir: ok, just wondering (that was comment from the crowd)
10:11   pitti   syslogd has this nice thing of 'previous msg repeated n times', but hard to do that for ~/.xsession-erors
10:11   pitti   since there is nothing in between to filter
10:11   pitti   I'm actually fine with gdm's behaviour, it causes least clutter
10:11   pitti   and adding a new file to the user's ~ makes me a bit nervous
10:11   pitti   (adding the .old file)
10:12   iwj     You need to be able to log in and find out why your last session went west.
10:12   Mithrandir      pitti: I'm quite happy with the "grab the last half megabyte of the old one and put that into the new one"
10:12   Mithrandir      (or 100k or whatever)
10:13   pitti   ^ I prefer that, too, it would avoid a new file and clean things up at the next session restart (not just at the 2nd after the next one fails)
10:13   pitti   and logging in twice wouldn't loose all the previous logs
10:13   pitti   ^ which double-rotation would do
10:13   seb128  Burgundavia: new bug-buddy includes recent entries from .xsession-errors to crashes sent
10:13   iwj     If the disk is full then you can't sensibly rewrite the file.
10:14   mdz     pitti: does this also mean that gdm would continue to clobber the file?  it's useful to have the last session for debugging as iwj says
10:14   pitti   iwj: we can if we read the last .5 MB into a variable or a file in /tmp
10:14   Mithrandir      iwj: sure you can.  Read in the last half megabyte, delete the file, write it out again.
10:14   pitti   mdz: the fix for gdm would be to disable the code that rm ~/.xsession-errors
10:14   Mithrandir      iwj: if you don't have half a megabyte of memory to spare at login time, your desktop is going to suck anyway.
10:14   iwj     Mithrandir: I suppose it doesn't have to be reliable :-).
10:14   pitti   reading into a variable drops 0 bytes, but oh well
10:15   mdz     please don't read 500k into a shell variable
10:15   Mithrandir      pitti: sponge ftw.
10:15   pitti   but reading into a file in /tmp should do
10:15   pitti   oh, argh, we don't install separate /home by default
10:15   iwj     I think you should do this truncation to .0 after running savelog, though.
10:15   pitti   so, memory, I guess
10:15   iwj     That way each session gets its own log, etc.
10:15   mdz     pitti: I suggest mailing technical-board; if you can get signoff on the actual code by two TB members, then I concede
10:16   pitti   iwj: too much clutter in the home directory for my taste
10:16   pitti   mdz: oh, I don't think that the current code DTRT
10:16   iwj     You're complaining about clutter in ~ ?  I think you're two decades too late for that, at least ...
10:16   pitti   iwj: rotating logs in ~ is something new, I think
10:17   iwj     We could make a subdir for them if you really want.
10:17   pitti   hm, I don't want to keep you guys from breakfast/sleep any longer, so maybe we should discuss it at -devel@
10:18   mdz     pitti: just clarifying that the implementation needs signoff as well as the design
10:18   pitti   I summarize the various options and their pros/cons
10:18   pitti   mdz: understood
10:19   pitti   ok, thanks for the feedback so far, I'll sumarize on the ML