UbuntuDev_2006-07-13

   09:01 mdz            BenC: you're up first
   09:01 dholbach       ah, there he comes
   09:02 rodarvus       mdz: thanks
   === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   09:02 BenC           do I paste?
   === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
   09:02 fabbione       it's all in the wiki..
   09:02 mdz            BenC: yes, please
   09:02 pitti          well, we read all our stanzas already, didn't we?
   09:02 BenC           Done
   09:02 BenC               *
   09:02 BenC                 cfq-by-default: DONE.
   09:02 BenC               *
   09:02 BenC                 libata-for-all-ata-disks: BLOCKED. Still need to do boot loader stuff.
   09:02 BenC               *
   09:02 BenC                 linux-kernel-crash-dump: IN PROGRESS. Cleaning up the userspace tools and scripts.
   09:02 BenC               *
   09:02 BenC                 merges: kernel-wedge and kernel-package finally merged from Debian today.
   09:02 BenC           To do
   09:02 BenC               *
   09:02 BenC                 Finish linux-kernel-crash-dump.
   09:03 BenC               *
   09:03 BenC                 Start on boot loader changes for UUID conversion (libata-for-all-ata-disks)
   09:03 BenC               *
   === pitti thought the point of the wiki was to avoid large pastes
   09:03 BenC                 Start pushing bug reports from linux-source-2.6.15 to linux-source-2.6.17. Get some testing on whether 2.6.17 fixes any of these.
   09:03 BenC           wow, that was ugly
   09:03 mdz            pitti: no, the point was to make the data available prior to the meeting for review
   09:03 Keybuk         err, I thought we were supposed to read the wiki
   09:03 Keybuk         not paste
   09:03 BenC           I sort of did too :)
   09:03 mdz            it's much more discussion-friendly to have it copied here
   09:03 mdz            but if you copy from the wiki, copy the raw text and not the HTML :-P
   09:04 BenC           point taken :)
   09:04 mdz            Keybuk: scary boot stuff is on your list, right?
   09:04 fschoep        sorry to ask this, but which wiki page are you referring to? (first time)
   09:04 mdz            (for libata-for-all-disks)
   09:04 Kamion         I'm happy to do the partman changes
   09:04 Keybuk         mdz: yup, migration for base-files are on my list
   09:04 pitti          fschoep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
   09:04 mdz            fschoep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
   09:04 ogra           fschoep, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060713
   09:04 Keybuk         installer is probably Kamion's list
   09:04 Amaranth       heh
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   09:04 Keybuk         and BenC was going to do boot loaders himself
   09:04 Kamion         it's not on my list, but I'll do it this coming week
   09:05 Kamion         (as soon as the installer works well enough to test)
   09:05 mdz            ok
   09:05 mdz            thanks BenC
   09:05 mdz            Mithrandir: next?
   09:05 Mithrandir     * misc: Merges, merges, merges. X is, hopefully, in shape now, lacking apps and mesa (but mesa is being worked on and apps is trivial). Also poked a bit at the uninstallable list so we can end up with a knot not too much delayed.
   09:05 Mithrandir     * Specs: no progress due to abovementioned work.
   09:05 Mithrandir     * Next week: Get knot-1 out, start working on specs, get X completely in shape.
   09:05 Mithrandir     * Blocked on: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs.html shows a few problems.  We need to get the uninstallable count _down_.
   09:05 mdz            mesa seems to be the final blocker for ubuntu-desktop
   09:05 Mithrandir     we're also in the first knot freeze now, so please don't upload stuff to main without approval from me.
   09:05 mdz            rodarvus was working on it earlier
   09:05 Mithrandir     iirc, rodarvus did that last night.
   09:06 mdz            xorg is still uninstallable though
   09:06 rodarvus       mesa was uploaded last night
   09:06 rodarvus       but has new dependency on lesstif
   09:06 rodarvus       which mdz asked me to remove
   09:06 Kamion         Mithrandir: seems a little early for knot freeze given that the installer hasn't ever been tried in edgy yet
   09:06 mdz            correc
   09:06 mdz            t
   09:06 Kamion         I expect quite a lot of changes still
   09:06 fabbione       rodarvus: if you want to brief me, i can do it this morning
   09:07 Kamion         debian-installer built everywhere but amd64; I'll work on that this morning
   09:07 Mithrandir     Kamion: do you expect any big changes already?  Apart from you having done the merge of doom?
   09:07 Kamion         Mithrandir: I don't know :-)
   09:07 mdz            Mithrandir: you intend to release knot 1 whenever it's ready?
   09:07 rodarvus       fabbione: that would be *very* kind of you, I'll do it right after the meeting then (it was non-obvious to me what to do to completely remove lesstif from mesa)
   09:07 fabbione       robitaille: let's take that on -x later
   09:07 Kamion         history suggests that it takes a few days from first d-i merge to usability
   09:07 Mithrandir     mdz: yes.
   09:07 mdz            Mithrandir: is there a list of blockers in the wiki somewhere?
   09:07 fabbione       rodarvus: ^^
   09:07 Kamion         but we can see how fast we can do it
   09:07 Mithrandir     mdz: edgy_probs is what I'm using so far.
   09:08 rodarvus       fabbione: *nods*
   09:08 Mithrandir     Kamion: I expect the freeze to last a few days, so that's fine, IMO.
   09:08 Kamion         ok
   09:08 Mithrandir     hopefully, we'll be able to release tomorrow, but if we don't, we don't.
   09:08 ogra           dreams ...
   09:08 Mithrandir     the first release is always painful, but we need to get it out.
   09:08 mdz            Mithrandir: edgy_probs is a start, but it doesn't account for everything
   09:09 Mithrandir     mdz: I'll create a wiki page, then.
   09:09 mdz            Mithrandir: thanks
   09:09 Mithrandir     Knot1ReleaseProblems or something like that.
   09:09 Mithrandir     ReleaseBlockers, maybe.
   09:09 mdz            I was thinking we also ought to get the procedure written up for preparing a milestone
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   09:09 Mithrandir     there's a spec about that.
   09:09 mdz            like the one we have for beta and final
   09:09 Mithrandir     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilestoneRhythm
   09:09 mdz            both so that we don't forget things, and so that we can back one another up
   09:10 mdz            I wonder how the livefs builds are doing; does anyone have access to those other than infinity who is ill?
   09:10 Kamion         yes
   09:10 Mithrandir     the logs are public.
   09:10 Kamion         although I probably can't do the initial setup
   09:10 Kamion         (I can only trigger them)
   09:10 Mithrandir     I can trigger them too
   09:11 mdz            rodarvus: once mesa is fixed and built, please ask someone to trigger livefs builds and see what comes out
   09:11 Mithrandir     we kinda need infinity (or somebody with equal powers) to get the fakeroot build hand-bootstrapped on amd64 too.
   09:11 mdz            Mithrandir: ah yes, MilestoneRhythm
   09:11 rodarvus       mdz: sure
   09:11 Mithrandir     s/kinda//
   09:11 Kamion         IIRC there was something else that needed bootstrapping too
   09:11 Mithrandir     Kamion: gcc on ppc?
   09:11 Keybuk         Mithrandir: nobody has equal powers to infinity, sadly
   09:11 mdz            Mithrandir: if anything turns up missing during knot 1, be sure to add it to the spec
   09:11 Kamion         if we can summon lamont, he can probably still do it; although IIRC the machine lockdown meant some of the buildds were out
   09:11 Kamion         Mithrandir: yep
   09:12 Mithrandir     mdz: yup, will remember that.
   09:12 fabbione       Kamion: no lamont can't afaik. he has no LP access yet
   09:12 mdz            Keybuk: we need to fix that
   09:12 Kamion         mdz: ubiquity totally won't work yet - I'm not sure we'll get it out for knot 1
   09:12 Kamion         fabbione: he can log into the boxes though
   09:12 mdz            Kamion: what does it need?
   09:12 mdz            fabbione: https://launchpad.net/people/launchpad-buildd-admins
   09:12 Kamion         fabbione: he's in launchpad-buildd-admins too, which IIRC is now sufficient for everything except er I think it's chroot
   09:12 Kamion         management
   09:13 mdz            fabbione: that was only when buildd admins needed LP admin rights, which is no longer true
   09:13 Kamion         mdz: it's sort of like a merge only not
   09:13 Keybuk         Kamion: buildd admins only grants you UI permissions, not the access to the right boxes
   09:13 mdz            Kamion: only knot?
   09:13 Kamion         mdz: needs an update to new d-i source and fixing of whatever breaks as a result
   09:13 Kamion         mdz: that too
   09:13 Mithrandir     can we have this discussion after the meeting?  It's certainly needed, but it'll take too much time now.
   09:13 mdz            edgy milestones will make great pun opportunities
   09:13 mdz            Mithrandir: after the meeting is very very early in the morning for some of us ;-)
   09:14 Kamion         let's move on, anyway
   09:14 mdz            Mithrandir: but I think we've covered the basics; please announce your wiki page on -devel-announce when it's up
   09:14 Mithrandir     mdz: willdo.
   09:14 mdz            Mithrandir: thanks
   09:14 mdz            dholbach: up next
   09:14 dholbach       Done
   09:14 dholbach       * easier-motuing: started off, announced to motu list, started mentor page, wiki categorization - I'd be happy for people to join in on MOTU/Mentors and more importantly MOTU/School/Requests.
   09:14 dholbach       * nearly everything of GNOME 2.15.4 and merges
   09:14 dholbach       * ubuntu-artwork update.
   09:14 dholbach       * bug triage
   09:14 dholbach       To do
   09:14 dholbach       * more bug triage,
   09:14 dholbach       * GNOME updates for dapper-updates,
   09:14 dholbach       * HUG DAY next week
   09:14 dholbach       * get cracking on Galago and Telepathy.
   09:15 mdz            dholbach: is 2.15.4 complete?
   09:15 Mithrandir     ooh, telepathy.  Shiny.
   09:15 dholbach       there were some new tarballs during the night, but not much
   09:15 Keybuk         dholbach: can you get the licences right to telepathy this time? :)
   09:15 mdz            someone needs to look into the gnome-applets build failure: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/2.15.1.1-0ubuntu2
   09:15 dholbach       mdz: should be done in a bit
   09:15 dholbach       Keybuk: yes, will spend more time on it
   09:15 mdz            something to do with python-gnome2-desktop
   09:15 Keybuk         mdz: that's just due to uninstallables, isn't it?
   09:15 seb128         mdz: it built on i386, isn't the other arch an instability from gnome-python-desktop issue?
   09:16 mdz            Keybuk: yes, but I haven't traced it to its root
   09:16 seb128         mdz: right, not a gnome-applets bug ... I'll have a look after meeting
   09:16 mdz            ok
   09:16 mdz            thanks dholbach
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   09:16 dholbach       how often are mass givebacks done or builds retried?
   09:16 mdz            doko: next
   09:16 Keybuk         the buildds still have ~3 days of building to do
   09:16 doko           Done
   09:16 doko           * toolchain-roadmap / gcc-ssp: investigate powerpc problems, rebootstrap a working gnat-4.1, needs a manual build on the buildd. rework the ssp-default patch (only turn on ssp for C, C++, ObjC, ObjC++).
   09:16 doko           * python-roadmap: conversions for packages in main to the updated python policy.
   09:16 doko           * syncs/merges: outstanding python syncs/merges, java syncs needed for eclipse & azureus, various random syncs/merges
   09:16 doko           * openoffice.org: dapper security update
   09:16 Keybuk         dholbach: rarely
   09:16 doko           * SoC nagging.
   09:16 doko           To do
   09:16 doko           * specs: packaging-hints is next
   09:16 doko           * openoffice.org: breezy security update, openoffice.org 2.0.3 dapper/edgy builds
   09:16 dholbach       Keybuk: that explains a great deal :)
   09:17 mdz            Keybuk: really? the i386 queue seemed quite short the last time I looked
   09:17 mdz            and the last time I checked we could build the entire archive in a few days ;-)
   09:17 Keybuk         mdz: i386 didn't have much to build ...
   09:17 Keybuk         https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+builds?build_state=pending
   09:17 Keybuk         sparc can't build more than a package a day ;)
   === fabbione larts Keybuk
   09:17 Keybuk         it's slower than the ia64 buildd
   09:17 fabbione       we have 2 32 cPU sparcs at the DC...
   09:18 Keybuk         fabbione: that's nice.  make them build faster
   09:18 fabbione       i wish we could use them properly but LP has no concept of parallel build on one host
   09:18 fabbione       Keybuk: they are not the buildd unfortunatly
   09:18 mdz            doko: is main finished for python-roadmap?
   09:18 doko           mdz: I have to check
   09:19 rodarvus       fabbione, Keybuk: is it not possible to install launchpad buildd on same machine, in paralel ports?
   09:19 neuralis       fabbione: i can soon contribute a sparc to be used as a buildd, if it's not a problem that it's not in the dc.
   09:19 mdz            doko: ok, thanks
   09:19 mdz            ogra: next
   09:19 fabbione       neuralis: no you can't. sorry.
   09:19 ogra           * last-week: g-p-m merge and update, common buildsystem some progress but not finished, voip meeting with scott balneaves about packaging basics, edubuntu-seeds ready for the first milestone CD
   09:19 ogra           * next-week: buildscripts for ltsp-daily-image-tarballs, common buildsystem finishing, knot 1 CD
   09:19 ogra           * specs:
   09:19 ogra             - student-control-panel-completion: (drafting)
   09:19 ogra             - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (started)
   09:19 ogra             - ltsp-convergence: (common buildsystem switch still in progress)
   09:19 ogra             - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (mknbi in main, bug fix needed)
   09:19 ogra             - thinclient-local-devices (started)
   09:19 mdz            pitti: I asked ogra to hold off on g-p-m until the hal stuff was ready; I understand you're aware of it
   09:20 pitti          mdz: yes, since yesterday
   09:20 pitti          before I thought this was all experimental stuff since new hal isn't released yet and policykit is still under discussion
   09:20 doko           pitti: please check "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gcc-powerpc/ ./"
   09:20 mdz            speaking of voip, those of you who haven't set up ekiga with the asterisk server yet, please do.  it'll be awfully convenient for teleconferencing
   09:21 pitti          ogra, seb128: if we do need the new hal, then I need to allocate a day to package it and policykit and give it some auditing
   09:21 mdz            pitti: apparently new g-p-m will not do suspend/hibernate at all without it
   09:21 seb128         pitti: my understanding is that g-s-t will use it soon, but not sure if that's mandatory or not
   09:21 ogra           pitti, that would be nice, else bigger parts of g-p-m have to be rewritten
   09:21 pitti          mdz: ^ this will make it subject to the gnome UVF exception?
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   09:22 seb128         what carlos showed us at GUADEC is that he has some code using policykit to "unlock" the admin features by example
   09:22 mdz            pitti: one way or another it gets an exception because we need it
   09:22 ogra           seb128, thats cool :)
   09:22 Kamion         we sort of had g-p-m in the gnome uvf exception for dapper, though only de facto because Kinnison asked for it lots
   09:22 pitti          seb128: TBH I'm *terribly* scared of sidetracking unix users and implementing a parallel user and permissions infrastructure; I want to take a close look at it
   09:22 seb128         ogra: I thought so before pitti complained about policykit :p
   09:22 ogra           heh
   09:22 doko           Keybuk, Kamion: do the outdated python2.x packages need manual removal intervention?
   09:23 ogra           well, we have a valid reason for it now :)
   09:23 Keybuk         doko: almost certainly
   09:23 mdz            pitti: if you can mail me some pointers to info about it, I'm interested
   09:23 seb128         Kamion: it was not part of the desktop upstream for 2.14, it'll probably be for 2.16
   09:23 Kamion         doko: yes, I'll look at that once all the builds have settled down
   09:23 ogra           doko, what about the schooltool stuff on edgy_probs ?
   09:23 Keybuk         doko: though don't we need transition packages?
   09:23 pitti          mdz: yep, will do
   09:23 Kamion         Keybuk: no, we have Provides
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   09:23 mdz            ogra: ok, thanks
   09:23 mdz            Kamion: next
   09:23 Keybuk         Kamion: provides won't replace them on users desktops
   09:23 Kamion         done: Basically nothing but merges; continued helping out with X on and off. Fixed installer security bug #48350. Some more oem-config reorganisation (nearly there, just need to make it work in the new world order now).
   09:23 Ubugtu         Malone bug 48350 in shadow "Backing up from final installation dialog results in blank root password" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48350
   09:23 Kamion         merge-status: All done except for installation-guide, due to lack of time. I'd like to request an exception to do this immediately after UVF; it's just documentation and there's nothing it can break.
   09:23 Kamion         next-week: Get the first round of CD images going and fix installer bugs until it's ready for knot-1; all the pieces are there now so it'll just be iterative debugging. If possible, make ubiquity work in edgy. Start work on ubiquity-advanced-partitioner and/or revive-tasksel.
   09:23 Kamion         plus this partman stuff for libata
   09:24 Kamion         Keybuk: there's replaces/conflicts too, and users mostly just install them via dependencies rather than directly so it should be ok
   09:24 Kamion         putting in transitional packages would negate most of our gains, I feel
   09:24 mdz            Kamion: no worries about installation-guide
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   09:24 Kamion         I'll probably do that between the cracks today
   09:25 Kamion         it tends to take a while, we have a BIG branding patch
   09:25 mdz            I'd consider working ubiquity a blocker for a real milestone
   09:25 Kamion         ok, I'll see what I can do - will be hard to get it working until livefses are active though
   09:25 mdz            Kamion: even so, I think our big branding patch is insufficient; last I looked there were still bits which were incorrect  for ubuntu
   09:26 mdz            Kamion: with any luck we'll have livefses later today
   09:26 Kamion         mdz: that seems likely; please let me know any time you spot any of those
   09:26 mdz            Kamion: I suggest submitting it to the doc team for review
   09:26 Kamion         yeah, I guess that makes sense
   09:26 mdz            thanks Kamion
   09:26 mdz            fabbione: next?
   09:26 fabbione       * done: merges, merges and merges.
   09:26 fabbione       * merge-status: miss only redhat cluster suite that has huge infrastructural changes from the version in dapper. I might need a couple of more days before i can upload something sane.
   09:26 fabbione       * todo: complete the redhat-cluster update as top priority. Go on with specs.
   09:26 Kamion         I just don't want to end up having the doc team totally rewrite it such that I can never merge it with Debian again :)
   09:27 mdz            Kamion: good point, be sure to explain
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   09:28 mdz            fabbione: sounds good, thanks
   09:28 ogra           hey RichEd welcome to the distro team meeting :)
   09:28 RichEd         morning ...
   09:28 mdz            Riddell: next
   09:28 Riddell        done:
   09:28 Riddell        merges: all main Kubuntu merges done. universe pleasingly close too
   09:28 Riddell        kubuntu-launchpad-integration: implemented
   09:28 Riddell        next week:
   09:28 Riddell        knot 1, kubuntu-easy-zeroconf
   09:28 Riddell        specs: mornfall not bountying for adept specs, I plan to break out the commercial repository support and dist-upgrade tool to new specs
   09:28 Kamion         thanks for doing the Kubuntu seed merge
   09:28 mdz            Riddell,ogra: you guys both did your seed merges, right?
   09:28 ogra           yep
   09:28 Kamion         the supported seed should be a lot more manageable in future
   09:28 mdz            I think I remmeber seeing -meta uploads from both of you
   09:28 Riddell        mdz: yes, and kubuntu-meta update
   09:29 mdz            Riddell: any known blockers for kubuntu knot 1 so far?
   09:29 Riddell        mdz: there's a few packages uninstallable for small reasons, I'll look at those today
   09:29 mdz            ok, thanks
   09:30 mdz            pitti: next
   09:30 pitti          Done
   09:30 pitti          * vast amount of merges and sync reviews; I have some updated merges, but I already did those which bring in new upstream versions.
   09:30 pitti          * cups and dovecot fixes for dapper
   09:30 pitti          * security updates
   09:30 pitti          * automated-problem-reports: initial work, now collects all information except stack frame image and list of package dependencies; I'm currently fighting with some weird behaviour (forever-hanging gdb) when then agent is called by the kernel helper, this might need some discussion with BenC
   09:30 pitti          * dug a good way into my bug mail, but did not get through yet
   09:30 pitti          To do
   09:30 pitti          * remaining merges which do not bring in new upstream versions
   09:30 pitti          * fix automated-problem-reports to be more robust, release initial package to universe
   09:30 pitti          * get OO.o security update for breezy with doko
   09:30 pitti          * grab Adam for PHP security stuff; this has been dragged far too long
   09:30 pitti          * catch up on bug mail
   09:30 pitti          * fix the mysterious apt-ftparchive failure on the daily langpacks
   09:31 mdz            pitti: I'm not sure when adam will be back at 100%; is there anyone else who can help with php?
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   09:32 pitti          mdz: I can do it myself probably, but adam already has done a good part of the work
   09:32 Mithrandir     mdz: I thought fabbione did a merge of it?
   09:32 pitti          Mithrandir: for stables
   09:32 mdz            pitti: please file a bug about the apt-ftparchive failure if you haven't already; I'll look into it if I have time before mvo gets back
   09:32 Mithrandir     oh, or that was PHP security.  Sorry.
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   09:32 pitti          mdz: oh, it's a bit more tricky, I'll tell you in #u-d if you like
   09:32 fabbione       mdz: i did the merge for edgy.....
   09:32 mdz            pitti: ok, thanks
   09:32 fabbione       that's it
   09:32 mdz            fabbione: yes, thank you
   09:32 pitti          mdz: so, php would take me a lot longer than him
   09:32 mdz            fschoep: you're up
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: art-polish-human-icons
   09:33 fschoep        Contacted Michiel Sikma to discuss his vision on the consistency and state of the Human icon set. Trying to figure out who is going to do the actual icon production, contacted Mark. Creating list of icons that need work, scheduled for completion on the 23rd of July.
   09:33 fschoep        Specifications: ubuntu-art-login-manager, ubuntu-art-login-splash, ubuntu-art-usplash, ubuntu-art-wallpaper
   09:33 fschoep        Finished the Ponder phase this week, collecting texture and material references, Troy James Sobotka provided excellent samples. Kicked-off of the Propose phase, compositional ideas can now roll in. Seemingly slow progress in this phase up until now, will stir up the discussion soon. Contacted Daniel Holbach to start working out packaging details for the Human theme and Theme Team themes.
   09:33 pitti          mdz: I'll talk to him, maybe he can send me his current work
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: ubuntu-art-cd-dvd-artwork
   09:33 fschoep        No progress yet, need contacts to start this up, all help appreciated.
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons
   09:33 fschoep        Contacted Henrik Nilsen Omma for startup, will continue drafting and expanding the specification by walking through a default Dapper installation and identifying missing and unusable icons.
   09:33 fschoep        Non-specification: Theme Teams
   09:33 fschoep        The 13th of July marks the end of the Theme Team application process, up until now three (one man) teams have applied for creating a Dash, Peace and Tropic theme for Edgy. Will now document, kick off and start managing the progress of these teams.
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: art-polish-human-gtk-theme
   09:33 fschoep        Searched for documentation on creating and editing GTK2 themes on Google, GTK-org and GNOME-org, little found up until now. Any help here is greatly appreciated since the Theme Teams are begging for this information as well. Im going to try apt-sourcing Dapper artwork packages for clues next.
   09:33 mdz            fschoep: that's the list which is scheduled for completion on the 23rd, or the icons themselves?
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: ubuntu-art-colour-palette-policy
   09:33 fschoep        I think weve made a lot of progress not only defining colors, but also locking down textures and materials for Edgys default artwork during the Ponder phase in the community artwork process. Im not sure if this specification is still useful.
   09:33 fschoep        Specification: art-sok-layout-colours
   09:33 fschoep        Scheduled to start identifying needs on the 7th of August, 2006 and produce layouts shortly afterwards to prevent overlap with the High Contrast icon theme work.
   09:33 fschoep        Non-specification: Dapper Artwork Backport
   09:33 fschoep        There doesnt seem to be a specification for this. I contacted Colin Watson as suggested by Mark to get a clear view on what were going to accomplish and more importantly, when. Once this gets fleshed out, I think we should make a spec.
   09:33 fschoep        Non-specification: Theme Selector
   09:33 fschoep        Will write a specification on this before the 16th of July and submit it for approval. Basically this is about having the GNOME Theme Preferences panel control more artwork items than currently possible. One thing that comes to mind is the login splash image.
   09:33 Amaranth       ...whoa
   09:33 fschoep        mdz: the list
   09:33 mdz            fschoep: what kind of contacts do you need for cd-dvd-artwork?
   09:34 fschoep        Sorry guys, first time - I'm a bit more verbose than you :)
   09:34 Kamion         fschoep: oh, I haven't replied yet, but that's DapperPointReleaseProcess
   09:34 fschoep        mdz: contacts regarding the technical specs (file format) and who is going to approve designs, what CD sleeve design we want (Dapper-like, or...)
   09:34 Kamion         fschoep: first point release is tentatively first week of August
   09:35 mdz            fschoep: Jane Silber should be your point of contact
   09:35 fschoep        Kamion: thanks, I'll look into that.
   09:35 dholbach       fschoep: i started working on example packages and buildsystems for iconsets/... i'll tell you once you can make use of them and i'll reply to your mail after the meeting
   09:35 fschoep        mdz: Right, thanks a bunch.
   09:35 fschoep        dholbach: OK, great.
   09:36 fschoep        By the way, should I cut the verbosity in my status updates :)?
   09:36 mdz            Kamion: I was thinking we may not make that target, depending on how things go with ubiquity
   09:36 mdz            Kamion: will we be able to do a fairly clean backport of an edgy-tested ubiquity to dapper, or will it be complicated?
   09:36 Kamion         mdz: the problem is that if we don't make that target then I'm (planning to be) on holiday and then it's edgy release stuff
   09:36 mdz            fschoep: a bit, yes
   09:36 Kamion         mdz: we can backport some bits but it will be more complicated than that; I don't fancy backporting the new partitioner
   09:36 mdz            Kamion: hmm, indeed
   09:37 Kamion         mdz: however, I do have a rough idea of the things that need to be fixed
   09:37 Kamion         mdz: they're essentially what's in DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues
   09:37 fschoep        mdz: OK, next time I'll be more in line with the rest of the team, and also update the Wiki beforehand.
   09:37 Kamion         and hacky workarounds for those should be fine
   09:37 mdz            Kamion: I am astounded by the number of bug reports filed against ubiquity with identical summaries and no attachments
   09:38 mdz            and often with the security flag set for no good reason ;-)
   09:38 Kamion         mdz: yes, one of the fixes in the dapper point release will be to extract tracebacks from subprocesses to avoid the identical-summaries thing
   09:38 mdz            fschoep: great, thanks
   09:38 Kamion         I have that fix tentatively for edgy already but haven't tested it yet
   09:38 mdz            fschoep: talk to Simon (sfllaw) about getting in the loop for having your status update on the wiki in advance as well
   09:38 mdz            Keybuk: next
   09:39 Keybuk         Done
   09:39 Keybuk         * merges, merges and more merges
   09:39 Keybuk         * much driving of Soyuz by hand ... come back infinity, all is forgiven!
   09:39 Keybuk         * some minor MoM tweaks
   09:39 Keybuk         To do
   09:39 Keybuk         * begin spec work
   09:39 Keybuk           * find out AutomakeTransition status from Debian maintainer
   09:39 Keybuk           * write base-files migration code for LibAtaForAtaDisks
   09:39 Keybuk           * draw up detailed ReplacementInit project plan and begin
   09:39 Keybuk         * examine recent `udev` upstream changes and decide whether UVF execption warranted for them
   09:40 mdz            Keybuk: any soyuz problems which should be on my radar to push for prioritization?
   09:40 Keybuk         it doesn't survive a reboot, but elmo now knows the runes to bring it back
   09:41 mdz            subscribe me to the bug and I'll poke about it
   09:41 mdz            thanks
   09:41 mdz            kwwii: next
   09:41 Keybuk         also when cron.daily gets long, you often lose buildd stuff
   09:41 kwwii          wiki stuff ... added philosophy, etc.
   09:41 kwwii          spec renaming, sorting out -- waiting for a launchpad bug to be fixed to go on with work
   09:42 kwwii          moving into the next phaze (propose)
   09:42 kwwii          .we have several new people intersted in kbuntu artwork, trying to keep that going
   09:42 kwwii          looking into new colors and textures (purple)
   09:42 kwwii          basic ideas for kdm, desktop splash, and wallpapers done.
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   09:43 kwwii          last but not least, making a UI for bzr :-)
   09:43 mdz_           my desktop just crashed, back on from the laptop
   09:44 mdz_           Keybuk: /msg me what I missed?
   09:44 ogra           kwwii, you work on the SoC project ?
   09:44 kwwii          ogra: only the UI for it, but yes
   09:44 ogra           :)
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   09:44 ogra           nice to know :)
   09:44 kwwii          the kde UI I should say
   09:44 pygi           ogra, nop, he did a KDE UI for me ^_^ (I'll be working on KDE edition, the GTK one will be made by student)
   09:44 ogra           ah
   09:44 pygi           yes, I know what you think about KDE =P
   09:45 ogra           what do i think about KDE ?
   09:45 mdz_           kwwii: Riddell mentioned that you were uncertain about kubuntu-icons and how much could be done for edgy
   === pygi shushes back to shadow ^_^
   09:45 mdz            (back from desktop)
   09:46 kwwii          mdz: yeah, we were thinking about including oxygen in edgy, but not sure if there is enough time for that
   09:46 mdz            kwwii: what's the issue? is oxygen incomplete?
   09:47 kwwii          mdz: exactly, and we would need to make sure it is complete enough to really use first
   09:48 mdz            hmm, ok
   09:48 kwwii          I guess this is something that should go on a wiki page...so that others could help or at least help decide
   09:48 mdz            please keep the status whiteboard up to date
   09:48 mdz            kwwii: that's a fine idea too
   09:48 kwwii          will do
   09:48 mdz            kwwii: thanks
   09:48 mdz            heno could not be here but provided an update:
   09:48 kwwii          sorry for being late, everyone...won't happen again
   09:48 mdz            Done
   09:48 mdz            * sudo-admin-atspi: I've proposed a config panel change to seb and daniel. I can make the needed Glade changes if they agree.
   09:48 mdz            * sok: alpha14 is looking good with a new default layout
   09:48 mdz            * compiz-mag: My SoC student is ill so this is on hold for this week
   09:48 mdz            * xubuntu-accessibility: XFCE have implemented sticky keys and friends in 4.4 so I want to add my vote to placing 4.4 in Edgy even if it's only an RC
   09:48 mdz            To do
   09:48 mdz            * edgy-content: start collecting and organising content
   09:48 mdz            * Other: 2 week holiday from Monday
   09:49 mdz            fschoep: if you need things from henrik, be sure to get in touch by the end of the week, since he'll be awway
   09:49 mdz            away
   09:49 fschoep        mdz: I see, will take this into account.
   09:49 mdz            Simon is ill but sent an update:
   09:49 mdz            Done
   09:49 mdz            * Specs: edgy-testing, drinking-from-the-firehose
   09:49 mdz            * Help dholbach a bit with UbuntuHugDay
   09:49 mdz            * Get sick
   09:49 mdz            To do
   09:49 mdz            * Thank people for merging WvDial and WvStreams
   09:49 mdz            * Get better
   09:49 mdz            * Convince BugSquad to start with edgy-testing
   09:50 mdz            seb128: next
   09:50 seb128         Done: merges from Debian, GNOME 2.15.4
   09:50 seb128         .
   09:50 seb128         Next week: looking at instability issues and GNOME packages not building, bugs catching up
   09:50 mdz            seb128: instability issues?
   09:50 mdz            or installability?
   09:51 dholbach       installability?
   09:51 seb128         (might make sense to have dholbach and I next to each other so if you have GNOME questions you don't have to ask them at different times)
   09:51 mdz            my desktop has become unstable but I can't blame GNOME
   09:51 seb128         installability, sorry
   09:51 mdz            seb128: yes, good idea; I will try to remember to enhance the script ;-)
   09:51 mdz            seb128: thanks
   09:51 fabbione       mdz: yes you can.. or at least... gtk ;)
   09:51 mdz            rodarvus: next
   09:51 rodarvus       Done this week
   09:51 rodarvus       * continued X merging (only missing is messa-lesstif fix + X apps, current status available at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/x-pkgs)
   09:51 rodarvus       * weekly Edubuntu meeting, met Richard Weideman (new Education Programme Manager, started 2006-07-14)
   09:51 rodarvus       Plans for next week
   09:51 rodarvus       * merge X apps
   09:51 rodarvus       * catchup with email (seriously left behind this week)
   09:51 rodarvus       * catchup with X bugs (+ get hold of basic X bug status/triaging with fabbione)
   09:51 rodarvus       * learn all procedures to master future Edubuntu Knot cds (with ogra)
   09:51 rodarvus       * hopefully help Richard catchup with Edubuntu
   09:51 rodarvus       * start working on specs
   09:51 mdz            fabbione: I don't know what's wrong with it; RAM might be going but it is ECC so I'd be surprised not to be warned
   09:52 mdz            crashed twice today
   09:52 pitti          rodarvus: a gold star for taking care of X!
   09:52 fabbione       mdz: heat?
   09:52 mdz            fabbione: happens just as much at night as during the day
   09:52 rodarvus       again, thanks for fabbione, Mithrandir and Kamion :)
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   09:52 mdz            yes, thanks for helping rodrigo with X
   09:52 rodarvus       and props to the three of them too :)
   09:53 rodarvus       would be very huge stuff to do all by myself, and I would certainly get (even more) lost :)
   09:53 mdz            rodarvus: can you mail me and richard about setting up a time to talk?  I haven't met him yet
   09:53 rodarvus       mdz: sure
   09:53 mdz            thanks
   09:53 mdz            iwj: next
   09:53 ogra           mdz, RichEd is here :)
   09:53 iwj            Sorry this wasn't in the wiki; I didn't read warthogs yesterday.
   09:53 iwj            have been doing: Breaks and merges
   09:53 iwj            firefox merge: Done finally
   09:53 iwj            firefox theme change: Done and no doubt everyone has noticed
   09:53 iwj            automated-testing-deployment: Still BLOCKED on xen-edgy
   09:53 iwj            xen-edgy: Chuck Short expects to upload a kernel this weekend; the userland tools are apparently still broken
   09:53 iwj            package-dependency-field-breaks: Started on the actual implementation.  Well, actually, just reading the existing code to know exactly how to edit it: 4 bugs found and reported to Debian so far ...
   09:53 iwj            suggest-packages-for-filetypes: no further progress this week
   09:54 mdz            RichEd: hello then. let's set up a conference call with rodrigo sometime soon
   09:54 pitti          iwj: can you give us a quick status wrt. the firefox security backporting?
   09:54 RichEd         Let me know when
   09:54 dholbach       iwj: will firefox need a rebuild everytime the icons change?
   09:54 fschoep        iwj: theme change - is that my stuff? Do we need to take a look at it in the near future?
   09:54 mdz            iwj: please update delivery status for xen-edgy; it's Unknown atm
   09:55 iwj            pitti: Err.  I've not been following it closely but it sounds like it's nearly done from the messages I've been seeing.
   09:55 dholbach       iwj: does firefox copy and ship the icons itself?
   09:55 iwj            dholbach: No.
   09:55 iwj            mdz: Willdo.
   09:55 pitti          iwj: that sounds promising
   09:55 mdz            dholbach: it depends on the theme package, which is a separate source
   09:55 iwj            fschoep: That's making your thing the default, yes.  I don't think you need to do anything since you're probably already using it.
   09:55 zul            iwj: hi i can do a status page in the wiki if that helps
   09:56 fschoep        iwj: it (the Ubuntu package) still needs some updating for the tab-close button.
   09:56 iwj            zul: You mean, add a bit at the bottom of the XenEdgy wiki page ?  That would be nice.
   09:56 mdz            zul: the status whiteboard in blueprint would be better, unless there's a lot to say
   09:56 zul            either or
   09:56 dholbach       ok, so the theme package has to be rebuilt every time the icons change? i'm just trying to figure out whom and when to ping :)
   09:56 fschoep        dholbach: yes, you are correct.
   09:56 iwj            dholbach: Yes, the theme package needs to be rebuilt.
   09:56 dholbach       ok
   09:57 dholbach       merci
   09:57 mdz            dholbach: yes, firefox-themes-ubuntu build-deps on the artwokr
   09:57 mdz            artwork, even
   09:57 mdz            iwj: thanks
   09:57 fschoep        iwj: another thing I want to do with it is adding icons to actions like copy and paste in the menu
   09:57 ogra           fschoep, btw, gnome-power-manager will need a bunch of new icons ...
   09:57 mdz            did I miss anyone?  I had to reconstruct the list when my machine crashed
   09:57 ogra           upstream added a lot and renamed everything ...
   09:57 fschoep        ogra: can you send a list via e-mail?
   09:57 dholbach       ogra: let me look into it before everybody is in alarm :)
   09:57 ogra           dholbach, oki :)
   09:58 fschoep        I want icon requests in before the 23rd of July.
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   09:58 mdz            heno: good morning; I pasted your update earlier and reminded fschoep to get in touch with you regarding his requests before your holiday
   09:59 heno           mdz: great, thanks
   09:59 mdz            any other very brief business before we adjourn?
   09:59 sivang         mdz: I thought I needed to provide and update, but I cna paste it on the wiki
   09:59 Mithrandir     I'm very happy we seem to have gotten the meeting down to an hour again.
   09:59 mdz            sivang: <mdz> did I miss anyone?  I had to reconstruct the list when my machine crashed
   09:59 sivang         oh sorry
   09:59 sivang         okay, pastes:
   10:00 sivang         Completed merges: notification-daemon, moin, dput, bittornado. Requested import of notify-python to be used in clean up tool and home user backup. Investigated libburn and its python bindings: lack of features, pyrex implementation, no upstream. For edgy we'll stick to the cdrecord wrapper, and attempt to polish it as much as we can. Started looking into merging the new home-user-backup GUI design, and also thought about how to enable backup no
   10:00 zul            mdz: i thought so as well but i dont have a paste
   10:00 mdz            zul: ok, in the future please type something up in advance, it really helps us move along faster
   10:00 zul            mdz: will do
   10:01 mdz            sivang: I don't much like the idea of having multiple implementations of cdrecord wrappers
   10:01 seb128         use libnautilus-burn :)
   10:01 iwj            sivang: your message was cut off after "and also thought about how to enable backup no".
   10:01 sivang         mdz: if there's one you know to be stable and would prefer me to use, I can do that, but at the time I couldn't find something that would allow me the flexability in reporting progress ot the frontend as mine does.
   10:02 sivang         iwj: ah, I'll repaste then?
   10:02 mdz            sivang: seb128 suggests libnautilus-burn
   10:02 iwj            No, just the end.
   10:02 ogra           sivang, only the missing bit
   10:02 sivang         mdz: it does not allow multi session cds handling nicely, that's why I implemented my own wrapper
   10:02 iwj            Very long pastes can get truncated.
   10:02 mdz            sivang: we're out of time, let's discuss on ubuntu-devel@lists
   10:02 sivang         mdz: also I'd like to be low on deps, which could be barrier for other derivatives if I depend on it
   10:02 seb128         sivang: why not contribution on libnautilus-burn to get the feature for it rather than starting a new implementation?
   10:02 mdz            thanks everyone
   10:02 sivang         mdz: sure
   10:03 mdz            adjourned, good night/morning

MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev_2006-07-13 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:41:27 by localhost)